Shadows in Life & Art: Exploring the Grey Between | Nadine Ellis

FOR EPISODE LINKS & MORE INFO VISIT: https://samhorton.co/blog/ep83

Have you ever noticed how shadows hold just as much truth as the light?

 In this soulful conversation, I sit down with Australian poet, author, and medical academic Nadine Ellis, whose new book The Grey Between explores the balance of light and dark we all navigate in life. Nadine shares how poetry became both her lifeline and her joy—helping her process trauma, honour her truth, and ultimately transform shadows into creative expression.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

✨ How poetry can become a powerful tool for healing and resilience
 ✨ The role of shadows, both in life and in art, in shaping personal growth
 ✨ Why everyday creativity can bring peace, empowerment, and joy

Key Takeaways:

• Creativity doesn’t need to be perfect or public; it’s about giving yourself permission to express what’s within.
• Shadows and struggles can help us appreciate beauty and fleeting joy more deeply.
• Poetry (and any creative practice) can be both a lifeline in hard times and a source of peace when life is calm.
• You don’t have to be “a poet” to benefit from writing; just start, play, and let the words flow.

FOR EPISODE LINKS & MORE INFO VISIT: https://samhorton.co/blog/ep83

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Transcript

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Ep 83: Soul-led Creative Women

Nadine Ellis: [00:00:00] So today I have Nadine Ellis with me. Nadine is an Australian poet, author, universally lecturer and medical academic whose journey of resilience and personal transformation has spanned the depths of abuse, the raw truth of motherhood, and the quiet battles of everyday life that so many women endure.

Sam Horton: Nadine's new book, the Gray between shares, poetry that heals, and Challenges tracking her transformative journey and the balance of light and dark. That is our human existence. So welcome, Nadine. 

Nadine Ellis: Thank you very much for having me, Sam. 

Sam Horton: So let's jump straight in, Nadine, and let's start with your story. Tell us about how you got started writing poetry and how it has shaped your journey.

Nadine Ellis: Okay. So poetry for me has always sort of, I don't know, it's always been there for as long as I can sort of recall. it was my sort of means of e expression from a very early age, but earlier still, I think my first introductions [00:01:00] to poetry were as a little sort of five or 6-year-old in ballet class, and my ballet teacher wanted her, Her children as we were to, gain some culture. So to sort of demand that all the mothers make, you know, make good use of this and go buy poultry books for their children and, you know, get us sort of immersed in it. So that was really my first sort of foray, so to speak. And, and my mother, I remember, treading off and coming back home with this sort of rewrite or re edition of H Belloc Cautionary Tales.

I don't know if that really impacted that much on me at that point in time, but it was there. 

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. That's 

Nadine Ellis: the like a little 

Sam Horton: seed. 

Nadine Ellis: Yeah. Yeah. but I, I, I really distinctly recall, it wasn't until I was at, at high school and uh, we had 

 A substitute teacher and I think she, you know, of want [00:02:00] of not sure what to do and sort of, uh, trying to sort of keep these unruly kids in tow starts handing out all these photocopies of, Emily Dickinson and, and, And I was like, wha how hell, this is just amazing. And I think at that point it sort of clicked that I wanted to be able to express myself in this emotive way.

Mm-hmm. And, and I recall like even from an early age, just jotting things down, like my thought processes. Things I felt just sort of, just anything that was going on in my head, but it didn't really dawn on me that this was poetry. Okay. It just was a way of expressing myself, uh, and I couldn't really talk to people.

And subsequently, uh, very late in life, I've, I've been diagnosed as, so that kind of explained everything from my childhood, sort of this inability to feel [00:03:00] like I was like everybody else. I always felt like this. Cog that didn't fit in. And and so I was very, a very feeling person, but I didn't have an outlet per se, to express that verbally.

Uh, so it was always very internal. So this dialogue was always there and still is, but writing enabled me to sort of get that craziness out. Mm-hmm. And it enabled me to, to be creative in, in a sense, but to also. Work things through. 

Sam Horton: Okay. 

Nadine Ellis: You know, you know, like when we normally have a conversation with someone, it gives us the ability to sort of hear that bouncing back and we can go Oh, yeah.

And have those sort of aha movements. I never really had anyone to do that with. Okay. So for me it was the paper. Sure. And the ability to sort of put the ink on it or the pencil or the crayon or whatever I could grab my fingers with and, and write those words [00:04:00] down. And then being able to sort of see what was going on in front of me and make those sort of.

Connections. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Nadine Ellis: You know? 

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Nadine Ellis: Uh, and then as I got older and life happened and so many things, uh, that we all experience, it still en enabled me to sort of process what was going on around me, especially when traumatic things started happening. Uh, and I couldn't quite work out why these things were happening to me.

Sure. And then being able to get it on paper, you suddenly realize, well, hey, it's not me. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. It's 

Nadine Ellis: just. Life in general and people impacting upon me. And so being able to sort of express myself and work through what was going on and seeing it on the paper enabled me sort of to keep my sanity in a way.

And lo and behold, I actually managed to get some poems. Printed. Printed. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. So good. And I 

Nadine Ellis: thought, well, I am not too bad at this, [00:05:00] you know? That's 

Sam Horton: awesome. 

Nadine Ellis: Yeah. So that, so good was an added bonus. But I think, I don't see it as a, so much as a, well I do, I guess I do see it as a creative outlet, but it was just a, a necessity of lot.

Yeah. 

Sam Horton: Sure. Well, we can explore that as we move through the conversation. Absolutely. Mm. 

Nadine Ellis: Yeah. But, you know, it is always been there. Mm. and I think many people have something in their life that they can sort of resonate with that keeps them sort of sane. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Nadine Ellis: Or has those moments where they can express themselves.

And it doesn't necessarily have to be poetry or, writing, it can be anything. But for me, that's, that's what sort of kept me 

Sam Horton: level. Cool. 

Nadine Ellis: Yeah. 

Sam Horton: So I was reading on your website that English is not your first language, and there was something in there about, like before you discovered poetry that you were living life in black and white.

Can you explain that? Can you explain that? Yeah. 

Nadine Ellis: Look, 

Sam Horton: it's so cool, 

Nadine Ellis: it's [00:06:00] bizarre. I mean, this kind of dates me a bit. I've, I've, I've just hit 60, sorry. my, my childhood was very much black and white tv. Yeah. Okay. When we did get it, you know, and, and I distinctly recall, I used to, I literally would dream in black and white or shades of gray, you know, it's, and, and I Oh, wow.

Until I, I think we were, I was about 13 when, mom and dad came home with a little color tell. Okay. And it's like color. It's just this vibrancy. And, and I remember sleeping that night and waking up the next morning and realizing I, for the first time, dreamt in color. Mm. And I always, previously before that, saw black and white in my dreams.

Everything was just so cut and dry or there were these shades of gray. But that was my life. 

Sam Horton: Right. And, 

Nadine Ellis: and it's kind of. It's kind of weird, but that's my [00:07:00] memory. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Nadine Ellis: And for me, I mean, I love color, but I'm always wearing black. 

Sam Horton: Yeah, okay. 

Nadine Ellis: Yeah. Black is my uniform. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. Yeah. 

Nadine Ellis: And, but I, I do, like I said, I love color, but I can't wear it.

I just, 

Sam Horton: okay. Isn't that interesting? 

Nadine Ellis: Yeah. So 

Sam Horton: like, uh, really powerful. I've just realized something that I, hadn't previously realized. Right. So my next question for you is all around shadows. So I'll, I'll sort of explain the question, but what I've just realized is that the shadows are in the black and white, right?

So when you describe that kind of pre poetry period of being black and white, it's still a play on the shadows. Yes. So what I wanna ask you. So I believe that, our creativity and our personal spiritual growth, they kind of operate in duality. Like they're always reflecting each other and mirroring each other and kind of doing this beautiful little dance.

Right? So the overarching theme in your, your poetry, You know, as a reflection of life's pain and struggles, and then [00:08:00] your work as a radiographer exploring x-rays of the body. They both have this overarching theme of shadows, right? Which is, you know, so, You know, shadows as in life's darkness, you know, or shadows as in, you know, shadows you can see in the body from the x-ray.

Mm-hmm. So tell us about how you feel about shadows as a theme for your life's work and passion. You know, as we are sort of talking about it here. 

Nadine Ellis: Yeah. you know, you've mentioned a lot. There's a lot to unpack. That's alright. 

Sam Horton: You go for it. I just had to describe it all, so I just think it's so beautiful.

I love it. 

Nadine Ellis: So take 

Sam Horton: your time. I 

Nadine Ellis: just, yeah. I think that for me, I, I've always kind of like to stay under the radar. And, and I think this comes back to sort of, it was a, a real target as a kid for being bullied from day one and for whatever reason, and I think the autism probably had a lot to do with it, uh, from a, being a [00:09:00] non-English speaking background as well.

I mean, I really didn't start speaking English until I was at school. 

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. 

Nadine Ellis: and that's where I first learned it. So for me at home, we spoke Russian. Yep. It wasn't until, I'm digressing here, sorry, but I'll get back. That's okay. 

Sam Horton: Yeah, yeah, it's fine. Keep going. 

Nadine Ellis: Just to qualify that, it wasn't until I was in high school before I realized I actually didn't, you know, I could speak English at home.

Yeah, 

Sam Horton: okay. You know? Yeah. 

Nadine Ellis: But, so for me, I was this tall, lanky kid. Braces, you know, mouthful of metal and pimply skin and just like a constant target on my back. So for me, I really had to stay under the radar mm-hmm. As a sort of a self preservation. And, and my earliest memories really are like primary school.

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. 

Nadine Ellis: Grade two, grade three, all the way through to high school and. Yeah, it just, it, it wasn't, a pleasant thing [00:10:00] to be noticed. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. Okay. 'cause 

Nadine Ellis: I was noticed for all the wrong reasons and there was always pain associated with that. Mm-hmm. And, and not just verbal. It was emotional, it was physical except, I mean, kids used to like shove me into the corner and they would whack me and stab me with protractors and it's just awful.

So I really feel for kids that do get bullied at school. Yeah. Hence, stay under the radar. Try not to sort of, you know, show my head. So, yeah. I, I would not be the kid that's in the middle of the field or in the group with the other girls. Yeah. Sitting, you know, I'd be like behind the tree, uh, under the shade, you know, sitting quietly, just even more of a target.

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Nadine Ellis: But for me, you know, that's my comfort zone. This sort of not being in the spotlight per se. Mm. And, and I think, although I, I loved being [00:11:00] this active child. Mm. Uh, it was always a solitary sort of activity. 

Sam Horton: Mm. 

Nadine Ellis: And I'd always end up hurting myself and mom would have drag me off to the radiology department for x-rays.

So that was a very comfortable sort of environment. Yeah. I don't know if you're familiar with the radiology department. They're very dark. Okay. So, 

Sam Horton: hiding in the shadows, literally. Yeah, it's, so for 

Nadine Ellis: me, again, comfortable sort of environment. So it was a really natural progression to, I think, to eventually have that as a profession down the track.

Sam Horton: Mm. 

Nadine Ellis: So, yeah, I don't, you know, it's not a scary place for me to, to be in those gray zones. It, it's really a, a comfortable place and it's just, I don't know. It's probably, you know, I see all in my head and it makes sense to me. I don't know, actually sort of verbalizing it very well, but yeah, it is a comfortable place.

It has extremes. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. Yeah. 

Nadine Ellis: And, and I understand. [00:12:00] Life has extremes as well. So it's this replication 

Sam Horton: Yeah. Of 

Nadine Ellis: the things that have happened to me throughout my life. Yeah. And so the book itself, the gray between it, is really a documentation of of my life journey from a young person to much older and mature.

And the book itself is divided into three segments. So you've got the in between. It got the white and the black, and I think they, they basically, okay, stand for. The harshness of life or the, the more naivety sort of purity. 

Sam Horton: There's so much there I feel like. Oh yeah. I feel like for you, like, you know, what you've described is sort of this hiding in the shadows piece.

So you know, as a young person you really identify with that. And then obviously in, in your work it's literally the same thing, right? Yeah. but, but what I was also. So getting at with the shadow piece is kind of like this shadow work that comes as part of a spiritual [00:13:00] and sort of a, a personal growth journey.

You know, as you move through life and as you kind of really explore your shadows and learn to embrace them, which I think is what you're doing with your poetry as. Alright, so how do you feel about embracing dark parts of, you know, your life as you've explored, you know, and the shadows of your life as you've explored the poetry and that real personal expression.

Nadine Ellis: Yeah. I, I, hmm. The embracing of it, I probably wouldn't, I wouldn't use that. Okay. That word to say. Okay. I, it's a necessity. Yes. Me, I need to, I need to, to jot things down. It keeps me sane. It literally, yeah. 

Sam Horton: Okay. Uh, 

Nadine Ellis: enables. Things to get out of my head so that there's room for other things to ruminate.

I use it, or have used it when life was really hard. Yeah. yeah. In the midst of the first marriage breakdown. Yeah. [00:14:00] Early days of, of motherhood. Very much experiencing, postnatal depression. Yeah. 

Sam Horton: Okay. 

Nadine Ellis: things like that. Just when life was really traumatic for me. It was a lifeline. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. Yeah. Didn't 

Nadine Ellis: me to work through what was going on and it was a, it's a means of getting from A to B.

Sam Horton: Okay. 

Nadine Ellis: Hence the grade between. 

Sam Horton: Can, do you see beauty in those, those hard times? Like when you look back on it and when you can see it written in the poetry? Do you really, that's what I mean by embracing it, I think. Yeah. It's kind 

Nadine Ellis: of like, this is my gift. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Nadine Ellis: It's like. recognizing or, or what's the word I'm trying to say?

It's acknowledging that there's pain and suffering. Yes. And we all have this at some point in our lives. No one's immune to it, but you need that crap Yeah. To be able to appreciate the beauty around you. Yes. Or you need to have experienced awful things to be able to see. The nice [00:15:00] things. 

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. 

Nadine Ellis: And it's this fleetingness to life.

but if everything is always nice and beautiful and joyous, you don't appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. 

Sam Horton: You 

Nadine Ellis: can't see it for what it is, so you do need that awful, awfulness, if that's a word. Yeah. To balance beauty. But even the beauty can be so brief, but it, you need to appreciate it when it's there. Yeah. So it's a balance.

It really is. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. And 

Nadine Ellis: so, 

Sam Horton: you know, how important has poetry been for you then in terms of really, honoring, you know, your truth and then, you know, expressing that? So, I see part of the creative process as a, a, a process of connecting to our truth and then finding really safe, meaningful ways to express that.

So how important has that, that, that been for you within your poetry? 

Nadine Ellis: But I think you've just basically answered it with the question. I mean, yeah. It's, it's just, yeah. for me, like some people, they need to confront whoever has done things [00:16:00] to them or they, they need to have that process of forgiveness, and that's not for me.

It doesn't work, work. 

Sam Horton: Sure. 

Nadine Ellis: But this is my way of confronting what has occurred or, or working through what has occurred. And, not so much the forgiveness part of it. Yeah. But the acceptance. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Nadine Ellis: And then moving through it. And I, I've sort of said this, I probably haven't said it to you, but I've said it previously, it's like those things that happen to us shouldn't define us.

It's what we do as we move through it that defines us. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Nadine Ellis: And I'm very much, that's my belief. Yeah. That just because these things happen, yeah. We can be sad, we can acknowledge it, but we don't have to live in that. 

Sam Horton: No. 

Nadine Ellis: We can move through it because those things do make us who we are down the track, but they don't define us.

And yeah. Yeah, look, it's about being present in the moment and acknowledging, the support of people around you and the [00:17:00] nice things and the beautiful things, but it's also recognizing when those awful things occur. You don't have to accept that.

You don't 

Sam Horton: have to 

Nadine Ellis: stay in those environments and. You are the one that's in charge of Yeah. That's beautiful. Your own self. And you have the permission to actually live the way you want to live. And if you're not getting that from the people that are around you, move on. Yeah. And so my poetry reflects that.

That's my process of, of the moments that I work through to come to that understanding that. Yeah. People were doing things that I didn't like. Yeah. But I had the power 

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Nadine Ellis: To stop enabling them and to move forward and, and become who I wanted to be. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. And how much has your poetry then helped you to get, gather that power within yourself?

Nadine Ellis: I'd say it's all there. Yeah. Because that, that's been my lifetime. Yeah. That's been my thing that I needed. but the, you know, like for you, you paint. Mm-hmm. other people, [00:18:00] do all sorts of things that are a sense of creativity for them. Yeah. But that's also their little lifelines. Yeah, absolutely.

That gives them that moment to sort of zen and, and be within themselves and settle and regain the energy and regain their strength. So yeah, creativity is just a beautiful thing. If you can, well, everyone can do it. Yeah. It's just being aware that it doesn't necessarily mean you have to be a poet or write Yes paint.

Find your own thing. Yeah. The little everyday, things if you can do them well and they give you peace. You're on a, a winning pathway. Yeah. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. I agree. 

Nadine Ellis: Yeah. 

Sam Horton: So tell us about your creative process then, you know, and the, and the ups and downs within that process as you go through, you know, creating a poem or a set of poems, you know, what does it look like?

Nadine Ellis: Yeah. Well, uh, a bit of lived experience helps. Yeah. And you got lots of material to draw on, which I'm sure you appreciate. 

yeah. [00:19:00] Life experience is, is wonderful in that regard. I think that's the first step, sort of being aware of things and feeling them. Mm-hmm. And I, I'm always carrying a notebook around with me.

Okay. I'm always writing. Uh, it might be a word that I've heard or a quote or someone will say something or I'll overhear a conversation. Okay. That's great. And I'll just jot some things down. And, and I I fill notebooks. Yeah. With just sort of sentences or descriptions or I'll draw something and it might be that night, I'll sit and I'll write something usually two o'clock in the morning.

but it, it will just. It'll be the, goes quietly in my head and it'll work itself out. And then I'll just be like, N I'm awake. Yeah. I've gotta write it down. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. Okay. 

Nadine Ellis: And, and then I might, excuse me. I might have a whole run of days where I'll sit and I'll, [00:20:00] I'll churn work out. 

Sam Horton: Okay. 

Nadine Ellis: And then, uh, I'll just put it away.

Let it sit, let it breathe for a while. I might come back to the week later or fortnight. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. I, I don't. I don't do it to, oh, I must produce something to send it out to publication. It, it really is. I do it for myself. Yeah. Okay. Cathartic sort of, therapy. And, and I think they're good enough.

Yeah. They'll, they'll go out. Yeah. 

Sam Horton: Okay. 

Nadine Ellis: And my god, a book, you know, has appeared. Yes. But yeah, it's just, it's like brushing your teeth. It's just something I do. 

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. 

Nadine Ellis: Yeah. 

Sam Horton: So obviously you've been doing it for a while, but you know, how often does your poetry surprise you, you know, and fuel sort of further insights into things that may maybe you thought that you'd already dealt with, or, you know, new breakthroughs in your healing and expansion journey.

Nadine Ellis: I dunno. I think it's probably at that point where, I've worked through that. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. Okay. 

Nadine Ellis: And I, and I now see it for what it is. 

Sam Horton: Okay. It's 

Nadine Ellis: my [00:21:00] therapy. I, I know it's so, you're almost, 

Sam Horton: you're expecting it to surprise you. Do you know what I mean? It's kind of like, you, you expect it to be magic and it for it to No.

Well that sounds nice for things to appear that you weren't expecting because you've been doing it for so long and No, 

Nadine Ellis: I, I It sounds a little bit conceed. It's not. Yeah. Yeah. That's 

Sam Horton: okay. 

Nadine Ellis: Not meant like that, it's just, I, I'm comfortable with it. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Nadine Ellis: And I'm comfortable with the process and, and if I can't produce a poem, that's okay.

Yeah, I know. It'll come eventually. Yeah. So I don't fight it, and if for months while I'm doing is jotting down notes, I'm thinking, oh, great. I've got a whole notebook full of notes for when I ideas down quietly and start working on it. I'm okay with that. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Nadine Ellis: I think, you know, like I said, 60 years down the track, I've kind of fallen into the pattern of, well, it's not today.

It'll come eventually. Yeah. I'm not fighting it. I'll just get busy with other things. So do 

Sam Horton: you think that you're sitting in a space of joy with it? A lot more than, than like maybe at one [00:22:00] po one point it was more about processing and healing and kind of this sort of transformation journey. Absolutely.

And now it's transferred more into a joy and peace and calm and serenity piece. Yeah. That's beautiful. Yes. I love that. It's very 

Nadine Ellis: much, it does, it brings me great joy. Okay. Comfort to sit and write and zone. Yeah. And I just, the world just. You know, I'm just tuned out. 

Sam Horton: Yeah, beautiful. And 

Nadine Ellis: it's lovely. And like I said, sometimes it's two o'clock in the morning because I've just been flat chat doing everything else, you know?

and at night my brain settles and think, now it's me time, you know, and I wanna sort of. Get something lovely out onto the paper, and then I'm happy and I go back to bed and everything's great. Yeah. But yeah, it, it, I'm at that point now where yes, it was a lifeline. Yes. Now it's so, it's joy. It really, yeah.

That's 

Sam Horton: beautiful. And so do you think that, your creative practice really helps you to connect with something bigger than yourself, you know, like spirit, God, universe, whatever you wanna call it. do you think that [00:23:00] it allows for you to have that deeper connection? 

Nadine Ellis: I've never really sort of thought of it in, in that regard, but, I'm, I guess I'm a spiritual person in that I, I sort of put it out to the universe.

Yeah. But, I still believe that we, I, I mean, I've got, I'm a scientific brain. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. Yeah. That's 

Nadine Ellis: great. So for me, you know, I need proof. Proof is in what I can see tangible things, but I don't, I don't discount other people's faith or things like that. Yes. But for me. Yeah, the universe is there and I'm very, uh, strong believer in that we do create our own issues a lot of the time.

Okay. So you do need to have a means of being able to release that. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. Okay. 

Nadine Ellis: And so for me, I think I pretty well stumbled on what works. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. Okay. 

Nadine Ellis: For me. Perfect. Sorry. You know, I, I now write hoping that other people can connect with it. 

Sam Horton: [00:24:00] Yes. 

Nadine Ellis: And then realize that they're not alone Yes. In their pain or their journey.

and that, that's a nice thought that my life experiences can now be shared with others. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Nadine Ellis: My mother always accuses me of being a little bit too open in what I write. But it, it's me. Yeah. But yeah, and I'm, they're on the page. I'm not hiding anything. but I think a lot of the time the reader who's reading the poetry brings their own life experience to what they're reading.

Yeah. And that enables them to resonate with my words. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Nadine Ellis: So sometimes they bring more pain. To the page than was ever intended. 

Sam Horton: Sure. 

Nadine Ellis: So there's, there are moments where they might get triggered, but that was never my intention. My intention was for me to be able to work through or to process things. But I think that that's the special thing with poetry.

You really do need the person who's reading the words. To bring their [00:25:00] life to it. 

Sam Horton: Yeah, sure. I mean, people who resonate with your work, uh, in theory, you know, it's just what they need at the right time. You know what I mean? Like, that's the sentiment I think that you can, like, I think that's a beautiful way to look, look at it because, they've been attracted to it for a reason, right?

So hopefully you're there to support them with whatever they're going through. So that's beautiful. 

Nadine Ellis: And, and on that note, yeah. May I read poem, please? Yes, of course. Go 

Sam Horton: for it. Absolutely. Okay. 

Nadine Ellis: this one's a little bit about mistreatment. 

Sam Horton: Okay. 

Nadine Ellis: Okay. This one's called Wrenched Apart. He wrapped his spindled fingers around her narrow wrists.

The tarantula tripping prey within silk threads spun from spinerettes like blood pulsing to his groin. She couldn't skirt the grime wedged beneath those fingernails. Seedling beds turned beckoning spring as he ground that soil to her [00:26:00] skin mixed with spit as spider hands burrowed against the teeth of her jeans, her eyes scanned the car as though separate from her head.

He pressed her suit knees across her legs, pinned her down a picnic blanket, forced to whiff his thick breath. He zoned in on her freckled neck drizzled slimy kisses across her flesh as venom paralyzes prey. Enzymes dissolving her and in his maleness, mistook her unfettered hand as liquified. As it dived to the floor, searching blind, skimmed bottle tops, butts, then fingered.

Cool chrome, just out of hand's. Reach. She heaved a carp, slapping body into air against her water's. Depths grappled closer to the wrench, [00:27:00] grasped its coldness in her palm, and whacked his throbbing temple. The black widow, tired. of his mating attempts. 

Sam Horton: Awesome. So good. Love it. It's beautiful. It's like just, pure creativity in terms of, you know, all of the analogies there.

I love that so much. It's beautiful. 

Nadine Ellis: Thank you. 

Sam Horton: So what do you wish that more people knew about the power of creativity and poetry? 

Nadine Ellis: I.

I think it's, it's more about that they can do it. Everyone can do it. And I think sometimes people are expecting themselves to be this great artist and, and they think, oh no, I can't do it. So they won't even try. And, and you don't have to be a great artist. You just spending quiet time playing you when your kids [00:28:00] play.

And we are mothers and we play with them. Oh, so gratifying. Mm-hmm. You know, this sort pure time to just play and I think people just need to play more. Yeah. embrace the things that we enjoyed doing as children. Mm-hmm. Because they're the things that give us joy when we're adults or older. And just because we've matured doesn't mean we have to stop doing those things that were pleasurable for us.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I think, I think it's just. being kind to yourself and, and thinking that it's okay to try. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. And, 

Nadine Ellis: and it doesn't have to be this great big whatever. 

Sam Horton: Amazing. Yeah. The 

Nadine Ellis: little things, the little things are wonderful. 

Sam Horton: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well said, well said. So for all the women out there who are curious about using poetry, whether it's.

To read poetry or to write their own poetry for, you know, healing and empowerment and joy, [00:29:00] what powerful message or question would you like to leave them with today? 

Nadine Ellis: I, I just start, just get a piece of paper and a pen and just put some words on the paper. Mm-hmm. And, and like, I think the bottom line is it doesn't have to be for publication or that aim.

Those things come down the track. If that's where you want to go. If you're using it as a means to connect with yourself and, and sort of have a bit of peace in your head and get some feelings out, then just do it. Yeah, 

Sam Horton: just 

Nadine Ellis: write whatever comes to your mouth or your head or to your hand. You know, you could literally just get your phone and just blah, blah, blah, talk, you know, and record it.

If you wanna hear it back. It's like, it's just this, get it out of your body. Mm-hmm. 

Sam Horton: Beautiful. So good. 

Nadine Ellis: Make room for more things to 

Sam Horton: come. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. And just play, like you said before. Yeah. So good. So how can people connect with you, Nadine, [00:30:00] and find out more about your wonderful poetry and the work that you're doing?

Nadine Ellis: Thank you. they can connect with my author site, which is www.nadineellis.com. So N-A-D-I-N-E-E-L-L-I-S, that's all one word. And also on my Instagram. So that's Nadine Ellis Poetry, all one word. So there's a lot of new work on the Instagram that they can sort of see. and the, the author site is mainly just all focused on the actual book at the moment.

Sam Horton: Sure. 

Nadine Ellis: yeah, and, uh, it's a, the book itself is available globally through, Amazon. Okay. And also through the publisher at Heal of Content Publishing. 

Sam Horton: Excellent. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today, Nadine. Loved our conversation. Thank you. 

Nadine Ellis: Thank you very much, Sam.