Ep 119: Kristen Crabtree
Sam Horton: [00:00:00]
So today I have Kristen Crabtree with me. Kristen is an author and certified divorce coach whose work is grounded in lived experience, not theory. She's the creator of Paramour Paradox, a self-recovery ecosystem helping seekers rediscover who they are, and a divorce coaching practice where she supports people before, during, or post-divorce.
Through her journey of self-recovery, Kristen helps others move from invisibility to authenticity, from adaptation to truth, reminding us it's never too late to feel alive again. So welcome, Kristen.
Kristen Crabtree: Thank you, Sam. It's so good to be here.
Sam Horton: So let's just start with your story. Tell us about your journey and how that's led to the work that you're doing today.
Kristen Crabtree: Yeah. So I'm gonna give the short version. You're welcome to ask questions. I'm not cutting it short for any reason other than there's so much more to talk about.
Sam Horton: Yeah.
Kristen Crabtree: So, when I was a teenager, 13 [00:01:00] I was sexually assaulted, 15 I was raped, and that is relevant to my story in particular because that, those experiences were weaponized and used against me in a 22-year marriage, to a woman who was incredibly manipulative and controlling and all of that.
And I didn't even, like realize what was happening to me, you know, in the marriage, which is the way psychological abuse unfolds, you know? That's why they're ... it's, it's a unique type of a- abuse in that way. you know, it just chip, chip, chip, chip, chips away at you- ... until there's nothing left.
So, I didn't leave with clarity. In fact, I left in a puddle of fear and confusion and fog. And, I literally had to leave when she was out of town because she wouldn't let me leave. Or at least that's what I thought. I didn't know I had the power to leave, because of what I'd been in. So- [00:02:00] I left and I moved to an area where I knew no one.
I, rented a furnished apartment, so I brought none of my furnishings. I brought two carloads of, like, uh, clothes and kitchen stuff and my pets. And, quickly realized that I had no clue who I was. I had been so covered in, adaptation from survival, that I didn't even know, like, what clothes do I like to wear?
What do I want my furnishings to look like? I mean, even really basic, basic stuff. And After I got through the initial, um you know, trauma obsession. And by that I mean, you know, I cycled in this path of I gotta know everything there is to know about narcissistic abuse because I reali- you know, I- Mm-hmm ... I had words for it then.
so I, I, [00:03:00] uh, uh, you know, uh, ruminated about that for about three months. And then, one day I just kind of snapped out of it and I said, um, you know, I need to listen to something different, 'cause I'd been listening to all these Audible books about, narcissism. And, there was a book that I had downloaded on Audible that I didn't know anything about the author, I didn't know anything about what he did, but it was, I just liked the name of the book.
It was called Becoming Supernatural- Mm-hmm ... by Dr. Joe Dispenza. And his work, I have to attribute, like, my initial, um, reconnection to self. There was a lot of things that he teaches, in his work that made sense as to how I was, having trouble healing, 'cause I was stuck in the, the loop of, you know, thought, emotion, behavior, experience, back to thought.
And even though I wanted to, um, stop obsessing, like, I couldn't, and I didn't totally- Mm-hmm ... understand why. [00:04:00] So, from working with his work on a logical level as well as learning his very specific meditation process, I began to hear my truth. And, I, I wanna first comment on the meditation thing, because I think it's very relevant to this creativity conversation- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
that we're gonna have.
And, a lot of people hear the word meditation, myself included before this journey, right? Yeah. Um, they hear the word meditation, and they think, "I can't meditate. I'm a failure when I try to meditate." And I think that comes from, a prevailing concept that meditation is only meditation if you're, like, sitting cross-legged- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
saying om, or looking at a candle, or paying attention to your breath, and your brain, you know, your mind is clear. But, you know, in reality, we live with monkey mind, like- Yeah ... all the time. Mm-hmm. And, it's super, super, super hard to quiet monkey mind, but if we [00:05:00] don't quiet monkey mind, we can't hear our truth.
Right? So Dr. Joe's meditation was my first ability to feel like I could really meditate. His, his style worked for me. That doesn't mean I'm telling anybody to do that style. It's, it's awesome, but there's so many awesome ways to create a meditative state. Yeah. Creativity being one of them. Yeah. which is, I think, really, uh, uh, it's, it's why your podcast is so exciting because it does do that where, in a way that, uh, people feel, um, safer and more confident, you know?
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Less, less like failures. so anyways, uh, through his meditations, I started to crack open the door. I wound up taking the plunge and going to his first 10, um, day, uh, retreat, which those are ex- crazy. And when I came back from that retreat, [00:06:00] I was sitting on my sofa, and I said, "Okay, true self, what am I supposed to be doing now?"
And I immediately, and I always do this out loud- Mm-hmm ... when I'm talking to my truth. I call it my true self, but whatever. I immediately heard, "Go find the book that you wrote in 1999." It was so far out of left field. I barely remembered writing this book. Which is why I really did feel like it was from my truth, you know?
Sam Horton: Yeah.
Kristen Crabtree: and that book became the book that I just recently published- Mm-hmm ... Be the You That's More You Than You've Ever Been. That's not what its title was back then. Mm-hmm. so for me, the journey, to healing and to being authentic and to, removing all my layers of adaptation, came from that spark of creativity that I had from back in 1999-
um, that I brought forward into my current reality, into my current life.
Sam Horton: Wow. Cool. So [00:07:00] in our message exchanges, you describe the, the work, you know, The Paramour Paradox, to me as a creative excavation of the self. So tell us about what that phrasing means to you.
Kristen Crabtree: Yes. So when I, opened that book from 1999, the first...
'Cause again, I, I didn't remember what it was. So the first chapter was filled with eight ex- exercises. Mm-hmm. And I did them, and my first thought was, "Wow, these are brilliant. Who wrote these?" And my second thought was, "These are really like an excavation to the self," because the exercises are really designed to, like, peel back those layers- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
and get at the truth, the, the person that, the essence of who you really are. And, I decided to create, more exercises and more questions for myself to help me, get at that truth. And so I- There's kind of, three components to [00:08:00] the model that I use. Mm-hmm. And the first one is the archeologist, and that's really the part of me that, like, dove into Dr.
Joe's work and just, you know, neuroscience, metaphysics- Mm-hmm ... philosophy, theory. And I realized that what that was doing was that was, giving me, like, the education to be able to, look at these artifacts. So the artifacts are our memories, our experiences, our passions. To look at the artifacts and say, "Is this adap- is this adaptation?"
Mm-hmm. Which I would call rubble, or, "Is this, authenticity, something that is really me?" Mm-hmm. So archeologist to artifact, and then to the architect that designs the true you 2.0. So the excavation to self is really, the way I look at. Rather than becoming someone new or learning something different, I believe the path back to truth [00:09:00] is removing layers.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Right? Removing. And so the excavation is the process, um, that I use, that I refer to for-
Sam Horton: Awesome ...
Kristen Crabtree: doing that.
Sam Horton: So you also make a distinction between, self-recovery and self-help. Tell us a bit about that concept.
Kristen Crabtree: Oh, yeah. You know, I really hate the idea of self-help. I mean, my book probably is in the self-help category.
But I, I hate that concept because, again, it implies that there's something wrong with us. Yeah, yeah. That there's something that has to be helped. Even personal development, I don't really like that term either because- Yeah ... again, it means we have to develop something that's not there. And, to me, our, truth is really found in, the self-revelation of the brilliance that we are.
We are all so amazingly brilliant, but we've forgotten.
And so the gift that this life gives us is the chance to remember.
And that to me is really what [00:10:00] self-revelation is all about. And then the second part of that is self-reclamation. So that's really what the architect is doing.
And, the s- the self-rec- reclamation is what I call remembering the future. So self-revelation- Okay ... is remembering the past. self-reclamation is remembering the future.
Sam Horton: so do you believe that intentional creative practices, you know, are, the s- is the spiritual work that we crave rather than kind of this traditional... I mean, you touched on it a bit before, but this sort of spiritual dogma or this more intimidating spiritual practices that we're sort of taught that we should embrace if we're gonna go on the journey?
Kristen Crabtree: Yeah, 100%. I mean, I think there are infinite ways to, quiet monkey mind, to- Yeah ... to settle our nervous system enough- ... that we have some clarity. we don't have to do that traditional dogmatic- ... uh, I think that's a great word, uh, version of [00:11:00] meditation. It can be, you know, eating your first five bi- two bites of food with great...
And even if it's, you know, from a fast food re- restaurant, you know? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Just opening the paper with intention, you know, looking at the food, thanking the animal, taking that first bite, noticing the textures and the ta- that is meditation in my book. Mm-hmm. That is an experience of, filtering out all the noise and just zeroing in on something.
And the beautiful thing about creative work, whether it's drawing, painting, um, writing, uh, you know, whatever, is that that's often when we experience flow. Yeah. And there's no better meditation than the experience of flow- Mm ... during creative work. I mean- Mm, mm ... it's yummy, right? Yeah. And so that is a brilliant way of being able to quiet the mind enough to start to reconnect with, uh, [00:12:00] who you really are, who- Yeah
uh, your brilliance. Yeah.
Sam Horton: Yeah. And I think that's what sort of, you know, at the root is why you keep going back, you know? Like, why you keep showing up for it as well. 'Cause when you kind of can experience that, um, it changes the way that you're processing information and processing the world, you know, and, and your experiences.
So, so powerful. Completely agree with that.
Kristen Crabtree: Yeah.
Sam Horton: Yeah. So how has creativity supported your own empowerment, um, and your spiritual journey personally?
Kristen Crabtree: You know, I, I can't... I, I have to stop creating new things. I just, I keep having these ideas, and I keep... You know, instead of, like, doing things to, you know, bring, uh, divorce coaching clients, I'm, like, creating, these clarity cards.
You know? Yeah, go ahead. I have, I have free stuff on my website like crazy because I'm like, "Oh, [00:13:00] that would be a really cool free digital download." So I spend this time creating this stuff that, like, isn't gonna make me money,
It's like it just, it brings me so much enjoyment and pleasure that, um, yeah, that I do it.
I, I don't think I answered your question, but- Um, so yes. So what I have found, for my own healing is that, Because I'm now connected to my truth- ... I don't need motivation, I don't need discipline- because everything that is coming up is from a place of passion. And when you have passion-
um, you don't need that o- you don't need to manufacture discipline or motivation, right? You, like- Yeah ... can't stop creating because- ... it just feels so good. Um, and so yeah, the creativity for me, e- even, like, cooking now, I'm way more into cooking than I ever was. just, uh, you know, it- [00:14:00] It is just such a huge part of staying connected to self.
and it doesn't have to be for those people who are like, "I can't draw, I can't paint." Yeah. Great. You don't have to. Yeah. Scribble on a piece of paper or- Yeah ... uh, lay on the floor and wiggle around. Like- ... art can take so many different forms. Creativity, creation, creativeness can take so many different forms.
I mean, one of the things that I created that's free on my website is a custom GPT called- Okay. ... I, I Hear What You're Not Saying. So to me, that is a creative-
Sam Horton: Yeah ...
Kristen Crabtree: gift I'm bringing, you know? But is it like drawing or painting? No. But it's, you know, it's coming from, yeah, creativity.
Sam Horton: Yeah. Yeah. I understand.
And so do you think that, I mean, like there's the skill sort of thing that you talked about, I can't draw, I can't paint, I can't whatever. Mm-hmm. But there's also kind of this inspiration well as well. Do you think that inspiration well, you know, that fuels our creativity, do you think that also comes from [00:15:00] within and from our truth?
Kristen Crabtree: Absolutely. Absolutely. 100%. Yep. I mean, really, the more connected we get to our truth, the more things flow, the more- Mm ... life just works the way it's supposed to. I mean, life truly isn't supposed to be hard. Mm-hmm. Um, relationships are not supposed to be work. You know? Yeah. I used to say this, "Oh, relationships are work."
They're not really supposed to be. Yeah. Like, they don't have to be.
if life is work, and if your relationship is work, then it's probably not your truth.
Sam Horton: Mm. Mm. Yeah. And also, you know, that need for relationship as well. Obviously we are, you know, relational beings. but this kind of desperation, I think, for relational energy and validation is kind of a trip up as well.
Would you agree with that?
Kristen Crabtree: Well, my whole, so Paramor Paradox is, [00:16:00] Paramor Paradox, uh, and the poem, so going back to creativity- Yeah. th- so that name came ... I, I won't bother, bother you with the story about where the name came from, but it wasn't a logical decision, right?
Sam Horton: Okay.
Kristen Crabtree: But when the name was given to me, a poem immediately came to mind, and I knew it was right.
So you can go to my website to see the whole poem, but the essence of it is we spend our whole lives looking outside of ourselves- Mm ... for true love. Mm. And really, that, and the reason Paramor is particularly appropriate- Mm-hmm ... in this context, so we spend our whole lives looking for love outside of ourselves, and really the love that we seek is within.
Okay? Mm-hmm. Lots of people say that. The reason paramour was such an interesting word that came to mind is because that usually means, like, illicit lover, right? Right. Well, we are taught Not to love [00:17:00] ourselves, basically Yeah. Yeah And so that is our illicit love. And you should never be, you know, you shouldn't feel like you have to whisper that you love yourself.
I mean, I- Yeah ... freaking love myself now, you know? I mean, I do. And it's such a great, great feeling. And so that really is the context for Paramour Paradox.
Sam Horton: So I think you have like a quick reflection exercise that you can share with us, so give us a bit of a taste of your process. Are you okay to share that with us?
Kristen Crabtree: Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. I've actually, I've got so many, but, the one that I think I'll use here, and so first of all, I'll say I have a free one 'cause I love a free one, right? I have a free one on my website called Who Am I? And it was actually the very first exercise in that 1999 book.
Sam Horton: Okay.
Kristen Crabtree: And in this book, my published book, it's what I call foreplay.
It's the sort of lubrication of the mind- Mm-hmm. ... for the process. And that is a [00:18:00] fantastic, uh, self-revelation exercise that you can do over and over and over, but that is on my website for free. Yeah. So I won't walk you guys through that. But one that I think is really fun for people who know there's more, can't figure out how to get there- Mm-hmm
can't figure out how to start to hear, like, who they really are, I call it the detective.
Sam Horton: Mm-hmm.
Kristen Crabtree: So you grab a notepad and pen, and you pretend that you're looking for the missing person that lives- ... in your house.
So you go throughout your house, and you are looking for clues, so the missing person being you, right?
So, what does this person like so that I can figure out where they are? Oh, they have a whole bunch of books. Okay, so maybe they're in a library or a bookstore. Oh, all of the books are cooking books. Okay, so maybe they're in a cooking class- ... or maybe they work at a restaurant, or maybe... So it starts to give you a sense of, you know, the, the truths that are, that are right in [00:19:00] front-
of your face- ... but that you walk by every day, you know- and you forget about, or you don't have time for it, or, you know, "Oh, gosh, I'm not important enough to spend time cooking," right? Unless I'm cooking what my family wants, you know- Yeah ... or something like that. So it's, you know, our, our passions, our creative sparks get-
um, either dismissed or put on the back burner- ... or completely ignored or lost.
So the detective kind of starts to bring that to the forefront.
Sam Horton: And is it also about, you know, asking ourselves, you know, what do we l- what are we surrounding ourselves with that we love, you know?
What is- Mm-hmm ... what is sparking that joy and that kind of- Yes ... curiosity?
Kristen Crabtree: Yes. Yes, absolutely.
Yeah, so my ex, e- everything was done and decided by her, so certainly our living environment was. And fortunately she had good taste, and she really liked- ... minimalistic modern, which is [00:20:00] beautiful. But it's not me.
Yeah. And I didn't know that. I- I- Remember what I said when I left, even basic stuff? My house now, uh, my living room kinda looks like a Turkish harem den or something. I get it. It has so many colors and- Yeah ... low-lying furniture and tapestries, and I part the beads. I have beaded curtains, right? Yeah. So I part the beads in the morning, and I look in there, and I'm like, "Oh, it's so beautiful!"
You know, it just makes me smile. And so, it's like, w- unveiling that stuff about yourself will bring you so much joy. Yeah. And it is, you know, figuring out the little whispers of, of what will- ... then spark that and open that up.
Sam Horton: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. And that's really, you know, soul-led creative living, you know, in terms of-
Kristen Crabtree: Absolutely
Sam Horton: the way that you're setting up your environment, the way you're moving through each room, each task, each day. So- Yeah ... yeah. So beautiful. So [00:21:00] for all the women who are curious about recovering from their life experiences and deep societal conditioning, what powerful message or question would you like to leave them with today?
Kristen Crabtree: powerful message. I know. You are brilliant. You are magnificent. You are amazing. All of you are
Sam Horton: Mm-hmm
Kristen Crabtree: You've just forgotten, and so it's time to remember. That's my message
Sam Horton: So powerful. So how can people get to know you better, Kristen, and get a real feel for the work that you're doing?
Kristen Crabtree: Well, if you'll, if you've been listening to this and thinking, "I wanna get in there and talk," I have, a website, Not even a website, a place that I can send you to- ... uh, called you2point0.com. Y-O-U, the number 2, the word point, the number 0 .com. All that is is a little video of me saying, "Hey, if you wanna talk, there's my calendar." Now, it's, like, not a [00:22:00] sales thing. This is my passion project. This is my mission. Yep Right? it's separate from the divorce coaching.
That's my business. ... so really that is just about if I, you know, can help you get on the path to your creativity, which will- ... bring you to your true self, great. you certainly can also explore the ecosystem at paramoreparadox.com, and I'm sure, Sam, you'll have the link in the show notes. Yep.
it's an amazing system. I can say that 'cause I can't even take credit for it. It was all... I was the conduit that brought it to the world. So, yeah, it's amazing and I'm glad that I was that conduit, but you can go check that out and see what all is there. Lots of free stuff. Awesome.
Sam Horton: Yeah, all the free stuff.
Awesome. Thanks so much for coming and chatting with me today, Kristen. Uh, love your energy. Thanks so much.
Kristen Crabtree: Thank you for having me, Sam. It was amazing. You're doing great work.
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