The Golden Thread: Turning Life's Hardest Chapters Into Authentic Art | Niki Borger

FOR EPISODE LINKS & MORE INFO VISIT: https://samhorton.co/blog/ep128 

In this episode of Soul-led Creative Women, I'm joined by Niki Borger, an international writer, actor and producer whose one-act plays explore the liminal space between life and death. Over a seven-and-a-half-year period, Niki lost her mother, both grandparents, her stepfather and her father, nursing several of them through their final months. Rather than let that grief define her as a victim, she found a different way through it: choosing which story to tell about what happened to her, and following the thread that leads to growth rather than the one that keeps her stuck. 

Three reasons to listen 

• To hear how Niki turned an almost unbearable run of loss into the creative and spiritual foundation for her work
• To understand why the story you choose to tell about your pain matters more than the facts of what happened
• To be reminded that the thing you're most afraid to name is usually the one most worth following

Key takeaways

• Storytelling as a healing practice, and how the same event can be told a hundred different ways, each with a different effect on who you become
• Why growth is described as the most natural state of being human, and creativity as the vehicle that gets you there
• How energy work and meditation can open the floodgates to creative ideas
• The connection between acting, vulnerability and safety, and how a well-built creative framework lets you take real risks
• Niki's concept of the "golden thread", the thread of possibility hidden inside even the darkest experiences

Reflection question
 
Where in your own story is there a golden thread waiting for you to follow, even if it's something you're still too scared to name?

 
FOR EPISODE LINKS & MORE INFO VISIT: https://samhorton.co/blog/ep128
 

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Transcript

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 Ep 128 Niki Borger

Sam Horton: [00:00:00] So today I have Niki Borger with me. Niki is an international writer, actor, and producer. She has turned her life experiences with grief and hardship into a set of one-act plays That explore those liminal spaces between life and death, and expand the frameworks we use to look at them.

She says soul-centered creativity is at the heart of everything she does. So welcome, Niki. 

Niki Borger: Hi. Uh, thank you so much for having me, Sam. It's a pleasure. 

Sam Horton: So let's just start with your story, Niki. Tell us about your creative journey and, and how you ended up here. 

Niki Borger: Well, I think creativity has always been a part of my life- Mm-hmm

um, from when I was very, very little. but professionally, I, I always kind of like done things like dance and then musical theater, and then I decided to go to Hollywood in 2018, actually. And that is where the rough part of my story kinda started. So I, [00:01:00] I came here. You know, coming to the US is already like a big feat, especially if you're not a native speaker and you don't have any connections here, right?

So that was, that was quite the big deal. And I came here as an actor. I was transitioning from musical theater to film, and I got really frustrated with people, um, making me act in their short films but then not submitting to festivals, so this work would not go anywhere. Like it was- Right ... all for nothing, And that was when I started writing, actually- Hmm ... around that time. 

and did a couple of short films that I wrote and produced just before the pandemic, and then I edited them and put them in the festival run during the pandemic, which was a great experience because all the award ceremonies and everything was now virtual, so I could actually attend.

Sam Horton: Right. 

Niki Borger: You know? Even though it was crazy hours of the day sometimes- Mm-hmm ... that was kinda cool. And yeah, so that is, uh, the biggest part of my creative journey, so to say. I came here in 2018 and, um, figured I don't [00:02:00] like the stories, I don't like how things are being done, started my own productions. And then life went quite a bit south, yeah.

Sam Horton: Okay. Yeah. 

Niki Borger: Mm. 

Sam Horton: So you're really following your creative dreams, you know? That LA transition would've been, yeah, huge, as you said. Would you agree with that? 

Niki Borger: Absolutely. And it is huge. It's, it's unheard of. I also... I don't know another person, from Germany who's done anything like it.

I'm sure there are some. 

Sam Horton: Yeah, 

Niki Borger: yeah. But usually, uh, the artists that come from non-English speaking countries, they are established already. You know, they're famous models, or- 

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm ... 

Niki Borger: they have parents that were in the industry, or they have family here or something. Hmm. And I didn't have anything. Hmm. I just came here with myself and a suitcase.

Sam Horton: So what inspired you to make that move then? or like what was it within you that really called you to do that? 

Niki Borger: I think there were two things. Um, I was not too happy in Germany 'cause I don't, like how repressive the culture is. And, I know it's very open-minded on the outside- Mm-hmm ... but when you grow up German, it's quite different.[00:03:00]

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. 

Niki Borger: And the other thing was that storytelling had always been such an empowering and healing tool for me. I loved books and movies growing up. I feel like one of the biggest blessings in my life is being the generation that grew up with the Harry Potter books, 'cause that was such a riot to have these books come out and then- 

Sam Horton: go through that journey, right? So I always, always loved that, and I always loved movies. And, um, at some point I, I thought, "What if I try to do the thing that I dreamed of doing when I was six years old?" 

Mm-hmm. 

Niki Borger: Well, that's what happened. So 

Sam Horton: special. So good. Love it. So you said, as I mentioned, that soul-centered creativity is at the heart of everything you do.

So would you say that creativity is like a way of life for you? you know, do you believe that this is, like, how we expand into who we came here to be? 

Niki Borger: Absolutely, and I could not have worded that any better than- Okay, phew ... you already did. It, it is... I [00:04:00] think growth is the most natural state of human being.

mm-hmm. Like, and growth comes in a large extent from creativity. Mm. Right? And finding that inspiration, those new solutions, those new ways that haven't been there before. 

Sam Horton: Mm, mm. So powerful, isn't it? So you sort of started to touch on it, but after going through, like, a really hard period in your life, you know, as you described losing all of your parents and grandparents in really tragic ways over a seven-and-a-half-year period.

So that type of experience has, like, a real, like, before and after type effect I'm assuming. So can you describe, that sort of before and after in terms of your creative identity, or your human identity? 

Niki Borger: Oh, yeah. well, so I came here in September 2018. 

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. 

Niki Borger: In May 2019, my stepdad got really sick, and they couldn't figure out what it was.

And a couple months later, he survived an emergency surgery for pancreatic cancer, barely, [00:05:00] and a couple of weeks after that my mom died in a car crash. Wow. And we never found out why. It was most likely a heart attack or a stroke. I believe it was a heart attack. I, I believe it was a broken heart 'cause she thought she was about to lose her partner.

Sam Horton: Right. 

Niki Borger: And she was really stressed out about it, too. and, uh, so she died suddenly. And, you know, by the time I came back from that, I obviously went to Germany, had to take care of things. Mm-hmm. Um, and by the time I was back in the US, I was... It was basically almost the pandemic already. Okay. So everything in shutdown and nothing happening anymore, and everyone being at home forced to deal with everything they have going on, right?

And it was around that time when I, uh, started writing more about my own experiences, because I was just trying really hard to figure out her story and our story- Mm-hmm ... because as her daughter, I'm very aware of all the good things but also the tricky things that I've copied from [00:06:00] her.

So I was trying to figure out if I were to turn what happened there in that constellation with her, my stepdad, and me into a movie, what would that movie be? Like- Mm-hmm. 

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm ... 

Niki Borger: what would be the arc? What would be the perspective? What is the story that I wanna stay with or that I would wanna share with the world, right- Mm-hmm

that brings peace and not detriment to some extent? And, uh, it went on from there. More things happened. Granddad's died, then my stepdad's cancer came back. He passed away. Nursed him through that, which was horrible. Mm-hmm. Um, my mother-in-law-in-law's cancer came back. Nursed her. She passed away as well. And then my, uh, dad's, uh, got really, really sick, and I nursed him for the last three and a half years until he passed away earlier this year.

Wow. So for that entire timeframe that I've basically been in the US- 

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm ... 

Niki Borger: and a- attempting this already big feat of making it happen, right? 

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. [00:07:00] Mm-hmm. 

Niki Borger: there was always part of me bound to other people in life or death situations. 

Sam Horton: Mm. 

Niki Borger: Right? And, uh, and that is horrible. Almost 

Sam Horton: pulling you backwards or pulling you back into what you've left behind, you know?

Left, 

Niki Borger: for sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the entire time, and to such an intensity as well. Mm. Mm-hmm. 

Sam Horton: Like, 

Niki Borger: my dad was an, uh, he was an alcoholic, so he had a liver cirrhosis. And- 

Sam Horton: Okay ... 

Niki Borger: that went on for three and a half years, that he was in and out of the hospital on a weekly- Mm-hmm ... basis, nearly dying every month or so.

Mm. And just the intensity was, was crazy, right? So in regards to my creative identity, um, I did have vision and purpose and meaning before I came here. 

Sam Horton: Yep. 

Niki Borger: but it's just gotten, like, a zillion times more- Okay ... because of the experiences that I've had in the meantime. I have no tolerance for BS anymore.

Sam Horton: Yeah, [00:08:00] okay. Um- Okay. 

Niki Borger: And little tolerance for stories that, I believe spread fear over love. That's what it all comes down to. 

Sam Horton: Mm. Right? Has it helped you to own your story more, your truth more, I, I should say? Your, you know, the truth of who you really are and what you want your life to be. Has it helped you to own that more, do you think?

Niki Borger: Absolutely. Yeah. Mm. For sure. 

Sam Horton: Mm. 

Niki Borger: 'cause when you go through- That last phase with a person, it puts everything else in perspective. You get so clear on what matters and what doesn't. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Niki Borger: And your tolerance for BS really disappears, right? Because you, you can see through it so- Mm ... quickly and so- Mm

easily. 

Sam Horton: Mm. 

Niki Borger: and so I'm... I don't have any interest in pretending or,making others comfortable for the sake of feeding their own fears, you know? Yeah. so yeah, so that has certainly changed a lot. But also, that [00:09:00] uniqueness that comes from such an experience is what makes the creative art really, authentic, right?

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Niki Borger: Whatever you create from there- Yeah ... is something that is real and hasn't been there before in that way. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. And, and if- does it feel more important to actually share that, do, do you think? You know, like whereas before it was kinda like I'm sharing it because I f- you know, I feel called to, but I don't really know why, and now you've got this kind of importance, this drive, this kind of meaning, um, that you're, you're wanting to express.

Niki Borger: Absolutely, yeah. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Niki Borger: There's so much purpose in it, um- 

Sam Horton: Yeah, purpose- ... innately ... is a good word. Yeah. 

Niki Borger: Yeah. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful. Not- Yeah ... 

Niki Borger: not in a way that you have to force it, but there's innate- Yeah ... purpose in what you're doing, yeah. 

Sam Horton: Yeah, that's really powerful. I love that. So why do you believe that creative expression is so powerful in transforming, um, like our challenges into something [00:10:00] really beautiful?

Niki Borger: The beliefs that you hold will always shape how you perceive your reality and the reality that you create. 

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. 

Niki Borger: So I'm gonna say that again. The beliefs that you hold will always shape how you perceive your reality and the future that you create. 

So if you have experienced trauma of any kind and you hold onto the belief, the easiest, simplest one is I am the victim in this.

Yeah. Right? This has happened to me. Now you adopt this belief and it starts shaping your future. 

And that is the pattern that needs to be disrupted, and the easiest way to do that is through creativity, I think. Yeah. Or meditation, but 

Sam Horton: Yeah ... 

Niki Borger: creativity is the, is the aspect of putting that into reality.

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

and- And almost releasing it, right? Because when you're expressing it, it's, it can't stay the same. You're, you're transforming it because you're, [00:11:00] you're releasing it and expressing it. 

Niki Borger: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're, you're admitting that it's real, for a start, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Anything that you speak into, like, that, that is real in that moment, even just sharing it with another person- Mm-hmm

gets a new level of existing, and then it starts becoming something else and starts transmuting and transforming. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Niki Borger: And that's a way how you can move through it, right? And just- Yeah ... creativity is a amazing tool for that. 

Sam Horton: And then once you start that process, then new ideas come and new inspiration and more creativity, right?

So it's like a never-ending kind of, um, pathway 

Niki Borger: Yeah, and you start rewriting that story, right? Yeah, yeah. You gain a broader perspective. You, you're no longer just the victim in this. You start becoming more- Yeah ... in that story. And I'm not gonna say that everything will make sense at some point- Mm

but you will find little pieces that make more sense than they did before. Yeah. And that's very healing. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. But even, if... I mean, you can't change, you know, what, what is, right? you can't actually change it. But [00:12:00] what you can do is you can You know, use that to your advantage, you know, and, and t-transform it into something, you know, that's future orientated.

You know, a new way of being, a new identity, a new way of expressing yourself, and that is healing, right? 

Niki Borger: For sure. And, that's the thing with storytelling, right? You can take the same story and tell it in a million different ways. 

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. 

Niki Borger: And the same... And depending on the way you tell it, it will, enhance and move forward the thoughts and beliefs that you hold about it, right?

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Niki Borger: Um, so it's, it's very, very powerful to make smart choices here for, for yourself, and to find the story that is, that both feels true, but also a beneficial truth to- Mm ... move towards in the future. 

Sam Horton: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So almost letting, the creative process hold the trauma or hold the, energy [00:13:00] around, you know, what is.

Um, but then also allowing it to be really uplifting and inspiring and, yeah, propel you forward. That's beautiful. Love it. Thank you. so would you say that honoring your creativity in this way has been your biggest healer?

Niki Borger: I would say actually meditation has been my biggest healer. 

 So what, what I do is I do energy work. Mm-hmm. Which is basically you're perceiving the energy that you're holding. Yeah. Usually of a full construct which is a belief, a feeling, and an action of a behavioral pattern that is- Yeah ... linked together, right? So the way I work is I perceive that energy within me.

I understand what it is and then I transmute it, let it go, and allow something better to come up. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Niki Borger: That is my meditative process that I do. Every time I do it, during the process or right after, I get a bunch of new creative ideas about all sorts of things. Mm-hmm. Whether [00:14:00] it's, uh, my art, my work, my life, what my apartment looks, what I make for dinner, anything.

Yeah. And it's, always an idea that feels completely new that I couldn't have had in the state that I was in before. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. Yeah, 

Niki Borger: that's really 

Sam Horton: powerful. 

Niki Borger: So through meditation you open up the, the floodgates for creativity- Yeah ... and, and inspiration to flow, and that is an amazing process. 

Sam Horton: Yeah, you tap into the well.

Yeah. 

It's really interesting because, um, I mean, meditation, you know, is quite a loaded word, But actually what it is is it's a finding a way to connect with your truth, right? Mm-hmm. And to tap into that well of inspiration and well of ideas, and maybe that's not meditation for everyone.

Maybe it's something else. But ultimately it's about connecting to that deep truth, right? Um- Yeah ... yeah, and you need that to access creative flow. You need that to access inspiration. You need that to access the kind of, the creative process in a way that's healing and transformative. Would you agree with that?[00:15:00]

Niki Borger: I could not agree more with that. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Like it, that is, that is exactly it. Yeah. It's, and ultimately it comes down to coming back to who you are, right? 

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Niki Borger: At bottom line is it brings you back to who you really are, your essence, your core, your well, whatever you wanna call that, right? And there's so many ways to go about it.

You can go running. Yeah. You can meditate. Yeah. You can do breathwork. You can ta- tap. You, 

Sam Horton: Mm. 

Niki Borger: You can play with your kids. Mm ... there's a gazillion ways to get there, right? Yeah. But you have to get there and- Yeah ... or like allow yourself to move towards that and not just spend time with, f- staying diverted and doing other things- Yeah

and avoiding, avoiding that truth. Yeah. 'Cause in the truth lies the key to- To that well, I think Yeah. 

Sam Horton: Yeah, so good. So as a creative person that really leans into, expression and sharing creativity, 'cause, you know, as an actor, like, it's pretty, pretty bold in terms [00:16:00] of- Mm ... what you have to give and share.

So can you share with us, both your internal creative process that no one sees, and then your experience with, sharing that in a really expressive and vulnerable way? 'Cause it's kind of both happening with acting, whereas with other creative outlets you don't necessarily always need to be sharing it, whereas with acting you do, right?

Niki Borger: With acting- Does that make sense? ... you live in that moment. Yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. 

Sam Horton: Yeah, 

Niki Borger: yeah. And, to someone like me, that is the beauty of the experience, right? That- Yeah ... you, you prepare, you do your work. and acting is a craft after all, right? Yeah. Like, there's a lot of craft to it. So, my process to that is I prepare really, really well, and I do a lot of character work behind the scenes on that.

Mm-hmm. So when I get to be in the moment, I know I'm trained enough, I know my character well enough, I'm prepared enough to just let it [00:17:00] flow and allow what wants- Mm ... to happen to actually happen, and that is the coolest experience on this planet. Mm. There is nothing that's more fun. 

Sam Horton: So it's almost like your internal creative process is the practicing, right?

You're practicing being the character, but you're also practicing things like courage and, you know, getting up on the stage and, you know, being that, in that, in that energy. And then I guess the- Yeah, 

Niki Borger: you kind of have a lot of ego, for 

Sam Horton: sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry to 

Niki Borger: interrupt 

Sam Horton: you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then when you get, when you're getting on the stage, that's kind of like when you start, you know, you're, you're fine-tuning the canvas, so to speak.

You know? Like, you're really putting it out there and, and making those bold marks. So yeah, that's really powerful. I love that. 

Niki Borger: Yeah, you just... Well, as actors, our bodies are our instruments, so to say, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So we gotta stay healthy, we gotta stay fit. Um, you gotta-- If you do musical theater, you have to be really well-trained, right?

Sam Horton: Mm. 

Niki Borger: for acting, you have [00:18:00] to know your character, where they're coming from- 

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm ... 

Niki Borger: uh, what they've been through, how they feel about things, what they think, right? Like- Mm ... all this, for all this work, there's exercises to do that, which I do through living as the character for, for little bits and pieces of time.

and, uh, when you do all of that, you've kinda like defined your, your picture, so to say- Mm-hmm ... where you can, which, which you can operate in, and then every time you do it, you're gonna land somewhere a little bit different, but that is what's gonna keep it real, right? Yeah. Because you have created the framework.

You know you'll be safe. You know it'll work, right? Mm. And you can allow yourself the liberty to let it be what it wants to be in that moment, and that is, that is such a beautiful experience. 

Sam Horton: Mm. Yeah, that word safe is really important, right? So that internal creative process is, is about building safety to then go and vulnerably express it and share it on stage, so [00:19:00] yeah.

Yeah. So cool. so do you believe then that creative flow helps us to connect to something bigger, you know? Uh, connection to spirit, the divine, God, you know, whatever your beliefs are. Yeah. 

Niki Borger: I'm a huge fan of Big Magic. I'm sure you know the book, right? Yeah. 

Sam Horton: Uh- Liz 

Niki Borger: Gilbert, yep ... yeah, huge fan of that.

I, I do believe it connects us to something bigger, and I do believe these ideas have, kind of an identity of their own, and they're just looking for the right vessel to come through. And for me, it's, it's an honor to provide that vessel, right? It's, uh, it's such a... I feel so blessed for every idea that comes to me and believes that I could be the right vessel for this to come through.

I mean, what an honor, 'cause the ideas that come to me, I genuinely believe that they're great, right? Yeah. And they're things that I love and care about and that I would love to see in this world, and I'm so excited. Yeah. And then to know that I'm the one who gets to have this idea- [00:20:00] Mm ... which means the idea wants to come through me.

Like, it wants to become reality- 

Sam Horton: Mm ... 

Niki Borger: through me. How cool is that? 

Sam Horton: Yeah. 

Niki Borger: I mean, what a blessing. 

Sam Horton: So cool. So, so good. Yeah. And I mean, that's the thing as well, right? I, I don't remember if the that book specifically touches on this, but sometimes it's kinda like, "Well, which one do I choose?" You know? Like, there's so many- Yeah

floating around there- Yeah ... waiting for you to catch them. Yeah. 

Niki Borger: So many. So many. Yeah. And that's where you have to be, you know, real life skilled to get you the, the help and, and,diversify the work a little bit- Yeah ... so you actually can be the best vessel. That's where- Yeah ... strategy comes in to some extent.

Yeah, yeah, 

Sam Horton: yeah. Yeah, being choosy about what you say yes to. Absolutely. 

Niki Borger: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Sam Horton: Awesome. So for all the women who are curious about using creativity to transform grief and loss or challenge and turn it into something really healing and [00:21:00] beautiful, what powerful message or question would you like to leave them with today?

Niki Borger: Well, I would love, if that's okay, I would love to elaborate on that process a little bit more- Mm ... if that's okay with you. 

Sam Horton: Mm. '

Niki Borger: Cause we... I know we've touched on this, that storytelling, you can have the same story and you can tell it a million different ways, and I do think that is really the key here.

That, that's really the key to, finding strength in the horrible things that may have happened- Mm-hmm ... right? And even finding blessing in the horrible things that have happened. so I would like to share, if that's okay, I would like to share a very personal piece about, 

Sam Horton: Yes ... 

Niki Borger: me and my mom, right? So my, my mom and I, we were as close as mother and daughter can be, really.

She was my everything. I would get out of bed in the morning and do what I had to do 'cause I wanted to make her proud, and it was still like that at age 31 when she passed away, you know? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. we were... [00:22:00] Yeah, we were as thick as, as two people can be. So when she suddenly passed away, it was the most horrible thing that, could have happened in my world, and, uh, and I felt really victimized about it, and I started from that, I started exploring of what all led to her passing, right?

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

Niki Borger: And now you could take a physical approach and say her car crashed, right? She must have either... She hit a truck head-on- Okay ... on a country road. Speed difference was 140 miles per hour. Nothing anybody could have done. The truck couldn't have gone anywhere. It was completely impossible. Um, I could tell the physical story of she was tired, and maybe overworked and fell asleep- Mm

or had a heart attack or a stroke, right? Um, but that is not a story [00:23:00] that will allow me to grow a whole lot. Yeah. Right? especially not if I turn it into a story of she left me alone- Mm-hmm ... um, or, or she gave up on life, or, she was not strong enough but got her heart broken over the situation with my stepdad.

None of this is beneficial. From my experience, and I do feel like I have her blessing to say that, the fact that she passed away allowed me as a woman to recalibrate my relationship with my femininity- Mm-hmm ... and my relationship with men. So I got plenty of time and opportunity to see what does not work That the narcissistic relationship she was in with my stepfather is nothing that I want for my future.

that the level of self-sacrifice that she practiced, which I'm so grateful for as her [00:24:00] child, is, is not sustainable and should not be expected of women to begin with. 

and a lot of other these beliefs. So now when I look at it from that perspective, now I'm starting to write a story that inspires growth.

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. 

Niki Borger: Because, because she passed away in this way, I have the liberty and the trigger to grow and reassess what I want to create in my future and what I want to pass on- Mm ... in the future. Mm. And that is a much more powerful story to tell, because now out of this horrible experience comes growth- 

Sam Horton: Mm ... 

Niki Borger: and comes more love towards myself with more boundaries, right?

And healthier, healthier boundaries for relationships. Mm. And so I'm turning... No, not turning, but I'm allowing this horrible thing to create something that is of value and beautiful in the long- Yeah ... [00:25:00] term run, and that is the power that you have in storytelling more than anything else. Mm. And y- you don't have to write a story.

You, you can paint a painting and it tells a story, right? But the storytelling aspect stays the same. You gotta find the story that empowers you and allows you to grow- Mm ... rather than the story that keeps you where you're at. Yeah. And that story exists in, in every situation. 

Sam Horton: Mm. 

Niki Borger: So to come back to your original question, for anybody who wants to do this and wants to get started, what...

My advice, right? That's what you asked. What I would tell them. 

Sam Horton: Yeah, yeah. 

Niki Borger: Um, here's what I would tell you I genuinely believe that life is good, and I understand that horrible, horrible things can happen 'cause I went through so much more hardship than I thought I ever would have in my entire life. But I still believe that life is good.

So you [00:26:00] gotta find that thread. You gotta find that thread, that golden thread in the darkness, the silver lining, and follow that to something that creates good out of that, and that will be the most beneficial thread you can follow for your art. Mm. The thing that you're kinda sensing, most likely scared to name- Mm, mm

um, let alone name to anybody else, um, or express, that is the one that you want to follow because that is the one that will bring you so many blessings and peace of mind and, and ultimately even joy. That's what I believe. And I- 

Sam Horton: Mm ... 

Niki Borger: genuinely believe that everybody has the potential to do so. So I really hope you find you.

You're listening. I hope you find that courage within you to follow that. I'm definitely rooting for you. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. So good. And that is the before and after, right? It's before- Yeah ... the challenge and after the challenge. Yeah. That's so good. So good. So how can [00:27:00] people get to know you better, Niki, and get a real feel for the creative work that you're doing?

Niki Borger: That is a great question because I only ... 'Cause I do so many things, right? I don't... It's not easy to connect to me. The, the easiest way is through Instagram, @Nikijborger. and you can follow my work there, everything I'm doing. I'm, just starting a new TV show, which will be a comedy about being you.

but for... If you wanna see, like, what I've done, my, my book, it's called In Between: A Gender Neutral One Act Play Is Between Life and Death, that you can get at any major bookstore throughout the world. 

Sam Horton: Awesome. Thank you so much for coming and chatting with me today, Niki. Loved chatting to you. It was great. Thank you. 

Niki Borger: Thank you so much for having me. That was amazing questions, and I really appreciate the space you're providing here and, and the, the conversations to have that.

Thank you.