Auto Focus
A podcast by the PodcastVideos.com team focused on gear reviews, studio equipment setups, and lessons and experiences from building an audio and video content creator business.
Auto Focus
From GoPros to 4K: Our Journey to Mastering Advanced Podcast Video Production
hi, hi, welcome back everyone. Hi brooke, hi audience. We are autofocus once again. Finally, sort of we're going to talk cameras and it took us a few minutes to set this up because cameras were pms it did, hence we had a one one of those yes, every once.
Speaker 2:Hence we had one One of those. Yes, every once in a while they need to be. It's basically hard like a hard reset. Basically, we had to do a factory reset on the cameras because they'll just. They start blinking yellow, they won't connect to the internet, they won't do anything.
Speaker 1:We use these cameras pretty hard.
Speaker 2:We do use them hard.
Speaker 1:yes, it's not unlike you kind of need to restart your computer every once in a while. They just decide we're done. We'd like to be freshened.
Speaker 2:We do, we need it, yeah, so we'll actually do a factory reset. So we had to do a factory reset and now we're here.
Speaker 1:We're ready. Now we're talking about the factory reset on the Logitech Mevo, the starts, that's right. Which is the cameras we've been using for quite some time now. The very early days we actually tried GoPros, but this is a 1080p camera. Logitech built Pretty popular About $400. But it's only a 1080p.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So which is?
Speaker 2:perfectly fine for anything, but it's only a 1080p, yes, so, which is perfectly fine for anything that you need, because most things, especially on the internet, they do not go above 1080.
Speaker 1:You're not going to watch anything over 1080.
Speaker 2:Yeah, especially for what we're doing, which is mostly like publishing your podcast and your videos on YouTube and things like that. 1080 is all you need. So it's not like you, it's not like you know. Moving up to 4K is you know. It's not like it is. You're behind the times if you're using 1080. If that's where your price point is, it's totally fine.
Speaker 1:But Since we're, you know, hardcore professional, really we are.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I mean we have our own podcast and everything.
Speaker 2:That makes us legit.
Speaker 1:We are looking at upgrading to 4K cameras.
Speaker 2:We are upgrading 4K.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've basically decided we're pulling that trick.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So that means a pretty big expense. Obviously these are $1,000, a little more plus.
Speaker 2:You gotta buy the lenses yeah, it's about thirteen hundred dollars they're all wet.
Speaker 1:13, 14. That's four times the price of this. For, yeah, four times the resolution.
Speaker 2:Roughly well, you get the 4k um, but not only do you get 4k uh, as your, as your, you know, um the sensor, uh, but you also get the optical zoom instead of a digital zoom, and so that is really one of the main advantages, and what kind of kicked us into high gear to do to make it faster than um than um slower. So we, basically we we knew that we wanted um a crisper image and we wanted to be able to zoom in and out again because, like, we're trying to move cameras um, if you see it set up, well, maybe we'll we'll throw a setup of what the studio looks like up, and we wanted to be able to zoom in and out again, because we're trying to move cameras, if you see it set up.
Speaker 1:Maybe we'll throw it set up and put the studio looks like that as a cover, but you'll see, you'll be rolling behind us as we're talking about this.
Speaker 2:This 4K camera looks like Well, it's more like this is what our studio looks like, and so you can see that the cameras are in the way, because when you have the 1080s and the digital zoom, it doesn't zoom very well. It will zoom, but you can really see it will really make it pixelated. When you have an optical zoom, the zoom is happening in the glass, so it's a lot crisper and so it doesn't look pixelated. And so that's the main reason why we are switching to 4K cameras because we want the optical zoom.
Speaker 1:And there's not really anything optical zoom available in 1080.
Speaker 2:I mean, these cameras go in 1080.
Speaker 1:You can show them in 1080 with these, if you want to pay for the 4K.
Speaker 2:But, like most cameras that are coming out, another thing that we do is our podcasts. Some of our clients will go up to 60 minutes, and so you need to have a camera that will long record for 60 minutes without the shutter or anything else they need to close. So a lot of the DSLRs that you have out there, even mirrorless cameras, they will only still film for like 20 minutes segments, and so that's not that does not can can do it if what we want to do. So it's not like it's not what we want to do.
Speaker 1:we want to make sure that this camera you can hit record and it will just record non-stop for as long as you want now, file sizes are also quite a bit bigger though, so on the back end you better have the horsepower to support moving these files around. Yes, that's storage space, that's internet speeds.
Speaker 2:That's Google Drive. Yeah, you're going to have to pay for Google Drive.
Speaker 1:And this was before either of our times, but even before we had the starts a very small prototype studio we had. They were running GoPro cameras, I believe Hero 3s.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Hero 3s or 4.
Speaker 1:And they had a couple of problems with that. One, they were overheating some because they weren't really designed to be a very static setup like that. But two, they would automatically restart a new file every 17 minutes or so and it made file management an absolute wreck.
Speaker 2:Well, not enough of editing, because they'd encapsulate. You have to stitch them together in the editing process, and I think that just adds all this extra time to it. What's great about these is that you don't have to.
Speaker 1:But we're going to focus right now on the A-B testing we've done here. Logitech Mevo Core, which is the 4K standard from Logitech, and the Blackmagic Micro.
Speaker 2:Yep, this is the Micro Studio Camera G2, so I guess it's the generation 2. Yeah, so we've been. We wanted to test, basically, which one works out the best for what we're doing. So, background what we're doing, we're trying to streamline the process where, basically we want to streamline the process, where, basically, we, we want to have the video you want to, we have our audio from our mics which goes into a roadcaster, we, we have the video which comes from a you know, right now it's an, it's an email start, and we want them to come. We want, we want everything to converge into one file. So when we send over the file to the editors, the audio and video are already synced. And then we want to be sure that we record all four angles at once. And then we also have made it to where we want to eventually move into live streaming. So we want to have the live stream capability, even though we're not ready to do that yet.
Speaker 2:And so what we've learned is that so when we are testing all of this, we want to test which camera, which one of these is the best camera, and so that is the preface of what this whole like our testing is. And so when we are testing. We're testing it as, like you know, like hardwiring everything in like versus like using things on the Ethernet or NDI, and we're also testing just what has you know like what is the easiest to use. And that's another thing is that all of our studios we want to make it so easy that, like the people setting up the studio don't have to have like any kind of technical background. We just give them, step by step, what they need to do, and so all the technical stuff is set up beforehand, and so all they need to do is really come in, tweak it and then shit report. And that's what we're trying to do here at the studio.
Speaker 1:And we've been looking at the quality of the lenses you can get. We'll go into that again in another session, but short read, all these lenses are pretty much equal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean really seeing in another session, but short-revealing All these lenses are pretty much equal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I haven't really seen much. We're also looking at placement. Because you do have the zoom now, you have a wider field possibility than the starts had, so we're looking at placing them in different spots around the studio. Where the camera I'm looking at now is, there will not be a 4K kit.
Speaker 2:They'll be off against the walls. Yeah, so basically the 4k? Well, because when you have that optical zoom, we can zoom in, we'll be able to get the cameras off the table and out of the view of the wide, wide angle, and you'll be able to use them. Um, they're going to be completely out of the shot, so it's to be more like a traditional set. Yeah, so that's what we're trying to do. Um, both cameras can do that and they do. They look great and you can zoom in and you can. Um, you know they look sharp, they've got great optical zoos and they both of them are great when it comes to things like that.
Speaker 1:So how do we choose between? You did mention there is a price difference. It's all of $4.
Speaker 2:This one is $4 cheap, yes, so. So price point is not a big deal. No, it is not a big deal.
Speaker 1:What differentiates the two, then? How did we decide to go with?
Speaker 2:let's talk yeah, so okay. So we've been using mevo obviously since the beginning, since I started in in august, and so I I was well adapted to how the mevo like apps, that everything works, and so to use the mevo, you have to have the apps. Um, you can have that's been true.
Speaker 2:That's been true with the candidate caps too yeah, yeah, with yeah, yeah, you basically have to operate a third app, and which means that, um, and we've been operating it through an ipad, which is on wireless, and so you have to have a wireless connection to talk to these cameras, um, and to get into the cameras, change the settings, tweak the settings, do the zoom, do the focus, do all these steps. You have to have the app and it has to be done through the app. And even, like when I noticed with the cores and correct me if I'm wrong, I'll watch it, but I didn't see that you can get into the multi cam app and mess with the focus and with the zoom. You could only do that in, like the regular mebo app. So, which, which means in the using this, the system that we had now, you would have to not only get into one app, but two apps and same company, same company but yeah and so, uh, both how their advantages, but like, at the same time, uh, we, we're going for ease of use here.
Speaker 2:So, um, already that was kind of like you know, but I already knew how to use the apps, so so it wasn't that big a deal, I could figure it out. I'm like, okay, people can probably do this. If you do it enough, you'll figure it out. That's just what the tech tech, tech, tech tech. That's just what the technology was right.
Speaker 1:Now we're talking about using these in fairly professional, fairly technical manners, some specialized tweak. But if you're in with a 4K camera, you're into basically an app-based adjustment of some sort, even if you're only doing a very basic adjustment. So if you're going to use the camera for something relatively simple, you've still got to use that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, on the Mevo and then on the Core you have to use the app to do it, to see what the angle is. There's nowhere to plug a viewfinder in. You have to have the app.
Speaker 2:And so what? I nowhere to plug a viewfinder in like you have to. You have the app, um, and so, uh, okay, let's talk. Notice with the black magic is, what I noticed with black magic is uh, so I was, I was worried ahead of time that black magic has a bit of a learning curve and that, um, they are not as um, it's like. It's not, you can't just pick up the camera and it's not just gonna be like every other carry that you've ever touched. You got an intuitive. It's not, you can't just pick up the camera and it's not just going to be like every other carry that you've ever touched.
Speaker 2:It's not intuitive and so. But they said once you figure out the way that Blackmagic does it, you'll love them.
Speaker 1:And so I was like that happened about a week ago, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been a week so to figure this out, and so, okay, I just want to preface this. I literally have been using cameras since before digital was a thing. Cameras have not really changed my first camera was a Pentax K1000.
Speaker 1:And so like it's a classic dinosaur.
Speaker 2:It is a dinosaur. Yeah, I can literally use a camera. I could roll my own film, develop my own film, and it's true, not just stills.
Speaker 1:We claim to be experts here. She has a roster of degrees. Well, I have a develop my own film, and it's true. And it's true, not just stills. We claim to be experts here.
Speaker 2:She has a master's degree in this stuff. Oh, I have a master's degree in film, but yeah, so I was like I can. Usually when people hand me their camera, I can figure it out Because I understand the basics.
Speaker 1:First couple of days with this black magic.
Speaker 2:Oh no.
Speaker 1:No, you were struggling.
Speaker 2:I didn't want to throw it. I wanted to throw it against the wall, but it was very expensive. So, thanks to Reddit and thanks to Blackmagic, therefore, I figured out I was like they need to just have a glossary somewhere where it's like ISO means this, aperture, means this shutter speed was common, but like what about autofocus, autofocus, the real autofocus, like shutter speed? Shutter speed was common, but like, so what we did with this thing is um for our use. So there's like a million uses you can use with this thing.
Speaker 2:So for our use, we plugged this camera in through hdmi into a um, into the midi switcher mini. It's the atem mini is MIDI switcher. It's the ATEM Mini ISO switcher and it's also Blackmagic, which is why I thought, oh, we'll pair Blackmagic with Blackmagic. There's going to be all these extra features and there are, once you figure it out. So I basically like once I plugged it in and then I was like, okay, I'm going to go find the ISO and I was like how do you change the ISO? And there was nothing. And so I was so basically, thank you to reddit and uh, and therefore it's actually called gang. So iso means game and black magic.
Speaker 1:So once you figure that out, you so we're just picking the dinosaur terms you and I know and placing them with with different terms yeah, it will turn and it kind of makes sense.
Speaker 2:I was like sure, why not so? But it does so. Like, basically, it's like you're making, you're making it more sensitive to light, so makes it the light better. Uh, then I was like, where, how do you focus this thing? And uh, every time it was plugged into the switcher, like if it wasn't plugged into the switcher I could, I could focus it just fine with, like the manual focus ring, but the second it was plugged, plugged into the switcher, like the focus wouldn't do anything anymore and it was driving me crazy and I couldn't figure it out. And then they're like oh, in your like the software center for the switcher, there's a button and it's like in the lower right-hand corner, so like a camera, and you can't see it. And I'm going to put a picture up here for you guys for auto, but there is an F for focus, but that's what it is, it's auto focus.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, mf AF is what the cameras used to say yeah, Just-.
Speaker 2:And they still do. The lens still says it, but still it's an AF, but it just says A.
Speaker 1:Let's jump in for a minute, though. You've referred to the switcher several times. The switcher is like a mini editor. You take it as the Romecaster on our audio. It's our mixer. Is a Editor? You take it as the Romecaster on our audio. It's our mixer. Is the switch or something like the mixer for the video?
Speaker 2:It's like a hub yeah, it's a hub for all the cameras that are coming in, so all the feed for the cameras is coming in, and one of the things we realized is that hardwiring things is so much more reliable than relying on even the Ethernet or the wireless for sure. So we ran into issues with that, with the wireless.
Speaker 1:Is the switcher something you were using with the?
Speaker 2:core. So the core has an HDMI output and so you can use the core with the switcher, and so that's one of the advantages of the core versus a start. The start does not have HDMI and so you have to do like all these other configurations to get it in there. It's really complicated. So you can use it into the switcher. But what's great about the Blackmagic is that when you plug a Blackmagic in with Blackmagic there's extra features and so I can control the zoom on the switcher, I can control the focus, I can control the color Like you can. Really there's a lot more you can do with the settings and the Blackmagic than you can with the core, at least through the switcher.
Speaker 1:And we'll go into the switcher in another episode. But obviously there are several other companies that make them too. You could pair a Blackmagic camera with another company's switcher, you said, and you'll lose certain functionalities. But you don't have to. I haven't done that yet, but yeah, you don't necessarily have to match your switcher brain to your camera brain, but there are probably advantages too.
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, as long as you have, it's like if your camera has hdmi out, then you'll, you'll be fine. This camera, um, it has some other things for sdi and there's other other other ways to plug things in. Um core has hdmi and that's basically it. So this one has a couple more settings too, where you can get a little more technical with it, but we're really going again. Ease of use, studio, where it doesn't feel like it's like the cameras are in your face, um, and that's why we went with the smaller cameras for each one. But yeah, like the, the black magic with the black magic switcher does really, really well. I do think that this camera has a lot it does. You can actually adjust and fine tune the color.
Speaker 1:Or certainly mechanic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that one is just like you pick, like this setting or this setting and there's nothing in between, and like what's great about the Blackmagic is you can really you can get all in between for everything. You can fix the color, you can fix your ISO. You can fix the color, you can fix your ISO, you can fix the shutter. You can do, and this one does do better. I read that it does better in low light, which is what we need because we have our dungeon in here. But these do do a lot better in the low light, and so you really you're going to see the difference.
Speaker 1:So core functionality, the availability and quality of the lens is pretty similar between them, but for our use here in studio it's the adaptability and the the ability to to tweak and hone each setting where the core doesn't necessarily have quite that adaptability yeah, and the the um a fork and there's a lot of dollars more I spent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it was like the core didn't have op focus either. So you have to really rely on the person running the apps to be able to see it. And another thing I noticed too is on the app, like they don't use the highest quality to need to enter the app and so sometimes even the feet coming in isn't as sharp as it as as um, as as like a usual feet. It's like it looks in post, so like when you record to the sd card and you see it it's a lot sharper than it fit, than what it appears like on the app. So that again makes the focus, that again makes the focus hard. So it's like it's very interesting. Um, there's, this one is just like you can tell it's very it's very interesting. There's this one is just like you can tell it's very like there's a lot, there's a lot more customization.
Speaker 1:So not not a bad product, but for our use, there's a lot more to this one that we can appreciate for a simple the same price.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, no, the core, the core is great. We've I've been using the core since we got here in August. We we've, in August, we've been testing.
Speaker 1:It's better, I might think for 4K.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's been great and I really enjoy their products. But I really do feel like, for ease of use and as when we were basically setting up a studio and asking people with no technical background to come and set up this camera after we've done the heavy work for them, this is really easy. All they have to is hit like a button and then do like a little like a custom zoo, and then all they're doing is just really just tweaking the angle and then you just hit so, with the caveat that you will hate it for the first 48 to 72 hours until you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we should do a vlog I will, we would.
Speaker 2:We should do something where it's like the glossary, where it just means because, like, instead of aperture it just says open x means y yeah, and you're like open, I get it because like it's the aperture, opening and closing, but the autofocus, autofocus is af not okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a means aperture okay, yeah, it means aperture, and we I said it was not, but it's fine.
Speaker 2:But I'm a founder as well. I do great and I do Multiple people told me that there is a learning curve. There is a learning curve. Once you figure it out, it's totally worth it.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we'll say Blackmagic wins.
Speaker 2:I'd say yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:Of course, not a bad product, but we like the, the additional features. We're getting out of the bike good deal well, and we're going to sign off here so that Brooke can go back and fight with new technology again, because we just got her new computer and now she's back on her Mac again.
Speaker 2:I love Macs, I know, and so, yeah, we've been testing PC as well, but we will save that for a whole other podcast yes, we will.
Speaker 1:Until then, this has been Autofocus. I'm Dan Kraft.
Speaker 2:And I'm Brooke Galligan.
Speaker 1:We'll see you next time.