Auto Focus
AutoFocus brings you behind the scenes of the podcasting industry, with PodcastVideos.com experts reviewing gear, interviewing industry experts, and more!
Auto Focus
How Podcasters Grow: Strategy, Guests, And Ads
Tired of copy-paste podcast advice that never fits your workflow? We sat down with multilingual podcast strategist Ana Xavier and video-first producer Sam Lewandowski to chart a smarter way to grow: build a plan that respects your capacity, your strengths, and what your audience actually wants. From OG audio roots to modern studio setups, we peel back what really moves the needle and what you can stop stressing about.
We dig into strategic consistency—how to set a clear goal and publish in a way you can sustain—plus a practical system for mixing high-effort deep dives with fast, high-value shorts. Sam shares why one great channel usually beats being average on five, and how leveraging guest networks can unlock reach faster than any solo grind. Ana explains ruthless editing for listener value, how to keep continuity, and why a three-minute mic-drop can carry more weight than a meandering hour.
You’ll also hear real-world insights on platform choice and paid promotion. TikTok often correlates with rapid growth for video-ready teams, X is seeing fresh traction, while Meta channels can be better for nurturing than spiking. We break down when to spend on ads, the difference between boosting a standout episode versus the whole show, and why your promoted content must reflect your actual tone, or you’ll pay to attract the wrong listeners. Plus, simple infrastructure wins: have a clean central hub, a modest episode backlog, and a booking habit that adds new voices outside your inner circle every month.
If you want a podcast marketing playbook that’s clear, doable, and honest about trade-offs, this conversation will help you ship better episodes, make smarter promotion decisions, and have more fun doing it. Subscribe, share this with a creator friend, and leave a quick review to tell us what tactic you’ll try next.
Hello everyone, welcome to Auto Focus. I'm here today. I'm joined by two amazing ladies. Um, I'm here with Anna and Sam. And so um I wanted you guys to have like introduce yourselves, tell us a little bit more about you and what you're all about. Anna, we'll start with you. To you or the camera. You're either.
SPEAKER_03:We won. All right, let's go to the camera because the people watching us, right? So I'm Ann Xavier, I'm the founder of the podcast space, and I'm a multilingual award-winning podcast marketer. What a what a mouthful. Um, and I work primarily with impact-driven business owners and leaders uh to help them grow their podcast and grow their content strategy and their monthly strategy. All right, you've been practicing your elevator pitch.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. Like it was like you never left the tongue quick. Yeah, you're like, this is it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Because I'm with y'all. I'm like on it. Yeah. If I wasn't recording at home, I'd be like, Yes.
SPEAKER_00:I love it. All right, Sam, how about you? Yeah, I'm gonna stumble through mine now compared to Anna. But um, my name is Sam Lewandowski. I am the customer success specialist here at podcastvideos.com. Um, and so I help our clients just make sure that their podcasts are ready to go, um, that they're hitting the milestones that they want and kind of helping throughout that creative process because when they come here, they have no idea what they're doing or they just need some help. And so it's kind of my job to help make sure that they get everything done.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome, amazing. All right, Sam, how did you get started into podcasting? Yeah, video podcasting to be specific.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so my background's in videography and like filmmaking. And so when I was in college, uh I went to school in Nashville and I was looking for video internships, trying to get in that space, and I stumbled upon a video podcasting internship with a boutique firm in Nashville called the Cast Collective. And so that was like my first exposure to podcasting. It was the first thing, um, specifically video podcasting. And so I like helped out, jumped in, and basically did what I do here, but in a way less professional sense there. Um, so we helped, you know, shows with I don't know if you guys know Savannah Chrisly. Um it's like Chrisly knows best is this reality TV show.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Yeah. Okay, I know the reality TV show.
SPEAKER_00:She did, it's the daughter, and she has a podcast all about that and her family. And so they like were recording there. It was very like niche, custom, like we would flip the room all the time for all of these video sets with people. And so that's how I got my start. Um, and then I moved back home and found my place here. Awesome.
SPEAKER_01:How different is it than like here at podcasts?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, very, it's like 180. It was, you know, you go from super high custom, like, you know, every light is changed. These people expect like we're moving couches and furniture for them to create these awesome podcasting spaces. Versus here, the method is very different. It's like turnkey, they just want to come in and record, they don't care. They don't want all of the fuss about them, you know, like, oh, let me fix your hair here.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, shift your mic this way just to hair. I know. We don't even like tell people to you know we tell them to get in front of the mic, yeah, but if the second you move that mic, we're like, well, that's you. That was you. Yeah. We don't, we don't, we don't stop anything. So I'm sure that was definitely really, really different. Yes, it was. We're like, Sam. I know I'm let it go, Sam.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly. I had to learn that not everything is as important as maybe we think they are. I mean, I feel like as creatives, people tend like you always want everything to be perfect. And so it's been a learning perfect for sure.
SPEAKER_01:How about you, Anna?
SPEAKER_03:How are you? How much time do we have? I know how long have you been podcasting? No, since 2008. Okay, so you were like OG, yeah. Yeah, mainly because and people are always like, oh, what is podcasting? But like podcasting can mean many things. And um, I'm originally from Portugal, and when I started podcasting, it was because my journalism degree, uh like the school was like very in an old building, and so we couldn't have like a PA system and a like a broadcasting system. So what we would do would be producing shows, and then they would go on a website that was like the radio, like the radio website. So basically, you would go and specifically like what a podcast is is what we did. We have an RSS feed dedicated to each show. You had to like put it together. It was more like basically a lot more put together than what I do today. It was definitely more about kind of like going and interview people and then cut that out and all the things. So that's why I started. And then I worked in radio for a hot second, moved to London, uh, because my best friend literally no out no reason whatsoever, other than my friend going, I got a uh I got into a degree in London. Do you want to come with me and we have like the best friends like adventure time? And I was like, Yes. Like, sure. Sure. Um, I found like whatever course um about radio production, advanced radio production that when I was there, I was like, I know all of this because I've worked in radio. But I'm like, ah, but it's like whatever, I'm learning. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's like it's a length of the BBC, I'm sure I'll learn. And that's like that, that was an experience that really taught me how insular every single media is within each country. Because um, you know, in Portugal it's still very like traditional, but then you move to the UK and it's a way more open. Like, for instance, I always talk about this uh BBC Radio One Extra, which is like kind of like the more urban side of BBC uh radio. Uh, they had a host called Gemma Carney, and she has a Lisp. And I was like blown away that like someone with a Lisp could be so like just on the airwaves, like just regular. And again, at the time, like 2011, it was still very much structure. You need to have like the voice, the whatever. So, like that really brought a lot of awareness about like, oh wow, like not everything has to be the way that I saw it back home. So, again, one of the benefits of moving to another country. Yeah, and then I I got involved with a lot of uh community radio. Um, and so it was like a mix of like podcasting with um online radio at the time. That was like all the rage, like the 2010s were all about online radio. And so then I started working with a nonprofit, and then they were like, Yeah, we need someone who has all the skills about digital marketing, and I'm like, I got those. Um which which then became really helpful for the job that I do now, right? So um moved to the US later, start working for a PR firm that um basically had content distribution. So you would come for being pitched on the news, but we would go, hey, how about having your own show? So we would all be former journalists, uh coaching clients on doing all sides of podcasting. So basically, like, okay, coming up with a concept, all the things. Then in 2020, uh, for a multitude of reasons, I realized like I want to like really be able to coach people through all phases of podcasting, through the show to then like when you leave the studio, what do you do with the show? Because I was always passionate about every facet of it. And so um, then I launched the podcast space, um, which was always aimed at impact-driven entrepreneurs through their business model or through the content of the show if it was educational and really improving their community. It's been five years since, and it's been such a great joy because the company has evolved and podcasting has evolved from primarily audio to a video as we are doing it here. Um, and uh since then I've worked with clients all over the world. I normally like saying four out of the five continents. Antarctica, I'm waiting for you. Yeah, someone will do a podcast. The penguins, we gotta do a penguin podcast. People like living there, surely. Um, and we're and and have been able to speak all over the the world. So that has been like so amazing, primarily for um not only like people who are multilingual, like I am, um, but women and underrepresented communities, because I know since working in podcasting for so long, women really struggle to show up, especially on video. Um, and so it is my goal to and my mission to really empower more women and peers to show up in a way that like helps them get to their to their dreams and goals. Awesome, amazing. Well, what brought you to Northwest Arkansas? Yeah, classic. My husband works for Walmart. Yeah, Walmart, yes. I mean, from Dallas to uh Northwest Arkansas, not much of a big stretch, but it wasn't that bad. Yeah, and uh funny enough, we got connected before I even came to Northwest Arkansas because there was again something amazing about the podcast industry is that you know someone and then they're really keen on helping you. And that has been something that out of like all the industries and different things that I've done has been just a consistent like winning point for the industry. Everyone wants to help. And so uh I was speaking at another conference uh before I moved, and um, someone called Alex San Filippo, who is the the founder of Podmatch, uh, he was like, Oh, you're going to Northwest Stark. So I've been talking to some folks there. I should introduce you. Uh to yeah, like to the folks there at podcasting videos. And and so it was just the podcast videos studio. Whenever I arrived, I had been stalking y'all for like a few months. So when I stepped in, and again, like tips for everyone like, why wouldn't you not talk to people? Networking does not be like, hi, I'm in a blah blah blah blah. Like it can literally be, hey guys, like build relationships online. And when I arrived, I mean, we've seen each other like a gazillion times by now, but um, it's just like really building those connections, like, hey, I'm new, like I do strategy, what do y'all do? Like, how can we be referring to one another?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like, and I think collaboration is big in the industry, yeah, for sure. I know, yeah, no, you were the first one. When I went to the podcast movement, you were the first person I saw, and the first thing you did was like introduce me to like everybody that was standing around, so it was awesome. So yeah, yeah, yeah. It is, it's like I yeah, that that event made me see like I'm like, oh, this this like industry is like really tight.
SPEAKER_03:Like, and it's just seems like this the same people, like yes, and and that's one of the problems when you are a podcaster, you're doing your own thing, unless you come into a studio, but most times you're in your house doing the thing, and it can feel very lonely, and you feel like you're like, oh, I'm admiring all of these people from like afar, and I'll never have a chance to connect. And then why not? Like, I I do this all the time. I want peers and I want just the industry to be stronger. So I organize, um, I have a like a Discord channel between peers, um, and we meet every Tuesday, and then like just met making sure that people who are new to an event or whatever, like you are connected because it's so important because otherwise it just feels like you're on your own, like adventuring away, but it kind of like kind of sad. You're like, oh thewesing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but everyone's so approachable, like everyone was so approachable at at the event. There was no egos, there was nothing. It was just like every year, you can just talk to anybody. They're like, hey, we're all here because we have something in common. So that was just really, really awesome. Can I sidetrack you for a second?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Was there anyone that you were like, I really hope I get to meet this person there? Like they were really looking forward to to meeting at the podcast movement.
SPEAKER_01:No, I had no expectations going in there, but I did see there was a guy who was in the they had the pamphlet of like the top like hundred podcasts, and they and like there was a guy that was in there and he was like talking about it to this other guy. And so I was like, Hey, can I interview you? And he was like, Yeah, I just gotta finish this email. And then somehow, like, we like we we crossed and we didn't, I didn't get to interview him. And so, and I was just like, Man, I was just like, I was like, he was like probably the most like well-known podcaster we could have interviewed, but you know, oh well, next time. So that was that was probably like my miss moment where I was just like, because he was like I overheard him. I he probably he was like, This girl's talking me. I overheard him talking about how he's like, he's like, he's like, Oh yeah, I got in this thing, and he was like, Look, Ma, I got published in a in a in a publication, and it was just really funny. I was just and I was like, Hey, I overheard you, and he was like, Yeah, you're weird. So he was like, Oh, flying, can I interview you? And he was like, Yeah, let me finish this email. And somehow, like I maybe I went to the bathroom or something, but like we just didn't, we didn't work. I know, next time. I was like, next time I'll I'll I'll find you. So that is not why we're here. What it's okay. It was all good background though. Yeah. It was fun. But why why we're here to talk talk talk about is um marketing. So I wanted to talk to you guys about, you know, just kind of like how to market your shows. And so what are the what are some of the things to avoid?
SPEAKER_03:So for me, working with podcasters of all tech capacities and all creative capacities would be to follow someone's strategy without keeping in mind your strengths and how you best work and how your brain operates. Meaning, if you absolutely hate being on video and you have like a three-camera setup and you're running it by yourself and you're not techie and you're trying to make it work, you're gonna be really stressed out. But if you are like me, for instance, and you love designing information and creating like really educational carousels to promote like content that was on your show, do it. There's no one single thing. It's like just avoid where you notice that there's a lot of friction.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:How about you, Sue? No, I love that. That's great. To go along with it, I think also don't be overwhelmed by thinking that you have to have the super big, long thought-out strategy. You know, um, marketing doesn't have to be like you have the whole plan written down and you know it for the next six months exactly what you're doing. It can just be, oh man, I have a great idea for a post and I'm gonna put all my effort into that one post and get it out there. Um, don't don't get overwhelmed by the the bigness of what you think you should be doing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I'm sure, I'm sure like if when when we have clients walk walk in here, and then we have our others, the some of them are probably really overwhelmed, and then you have other ones like big big talk who just are like they're just happy to just floating by. They're literally filming their own conversations. They're like good friends, and they're just like, let's get together and talk about stuff, and we don't even care if like other people want to listen. But now, like a hundred episodes in, people are listening. So yeah, that's really, really good, good, good advice. Like, are there any other marketing myths that are out there? Because I feel like there's so much stuff that's like, you know, it's like do this and do that, and you know, and but like, does it really, really matter?
SPEAKER_03:Um, I think that uh, and this is something that perhaps not a lot of people are aware of, and that is that idea of like just be consistent. And the just be consistent does not work because if you're let's say um you have no GPS and someone tells you just walk, you'd probably go where? Yeah, right? Like, do I need shoes? Do I need hiking boots? Like, what do I do I need skis? Um, and so I prefer the concept of strategic consistency. And so when you're looking at what you need to do, like plan from the goal. What is the goal and try to create consistency within that? So if you let's say you have like uh the capacity to create one post per week, that is that is something that your your audience can expect, or an email per week for for instance, right? Um, and I think that people just go, just be consistent. I'm like, if you're just keep walking, but you're walking toward the wrong direction and you're gonna be in the snow, not prepared at all, then you're gonna be like, this sucks. I I I can't continue, right? And you're gonna give up. So for me, like that would be like one of the main ones.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, that's a really good one. Any other myths that that that people do? Anything about I just like you know, because I feel like some people make like they, yeah, they just make it harder than it than it is. And like if you make things super hard, you're not gonna do it.
SPEAKER_00:Here's what one that I've seen is I feel like people nowadays feel like they have to be on every social media channel ever. Like they have to be on all, and not that that's bad, that's not a bad strategy. If you can do that, do it. It's great. But I think there's also a lot of value in finding the channel that works for you. And if that's your capacity and that's all you can do, go do really well on that one channel. And you're probably gonna have just as much, if not more, success than if you were trying to tackle all of them at once. Like you're trying to shotgun. Yeah, just like throw it all out there and do everything. Because what you get is you get to tailor like your content to one specific channel, you get to figure out who's your audience on that one channel, what can you do? And and that's probably better advice for someone just starting out rather than you know, you've grown the show, you know what you have, you have more resources and ability and capacity.
SPEAKER_03:But sweetie. Can I play a make a plug right now? Oh yeah. Uh so just yesterday, actually, I was talking to Jeremy Enns, who runs the podcast marketing trends report. And uh he I asked him about this, like, okay, for the podcast, he studied like the podcast that had like the longest, the fastest growth. And one of the things that he uh, because this is all self-reported, all of these shows have been podcasting for almost close to four years. So these are people who have been consistent. And one of the things he talked about was the marketing channels that uh were the most successful. And he said that TikTok was associated with the shows that grew the fastest. Interesting. Now caveat a lot of like what our conversation was like, well, yeah, what is causation and yeah, what is in what is leading to this? But he said that okay, maybe like um if someone is already doing video because they have the capacity to that or they're operating at a loss, um, they will see the fastest growth because they have the capacity to your point to just like pump content like nobody's business. Um, if you're just doing it yourself, then that may not be the capacity. But um X had a resurgence, interesting, which I was like, what? Yeah. Um, like both of us actually we had met on uh Twitter, and then both of us, whenever that was that shift that we all know, uh like we dropped that. Yeah, so now we we just see each other at conferences and that's it. Yeah. Um, but uh yeah, that was it. And then uh Instagram and like meta products, I think that's what he said. Uh I'm paraphrasing right now, were like the ones that didn't really lead to like any like really fast growth. That the the hosts did not associate that with like the fastest growth. So I thought that that was like super interesting. It is. Um, and I'm gonna make sure maybe we include the the link to uh to the report in the show notes. Um but I thought that was a really good, like it just different strategies for the different folks. Um but keep in mind like what works for like someone who has a team may not work for you, solo creator. Yeah, that's my advice.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I love it. No, let's talk about uh it goes into right the next point. What are some tips that work? Like, what's marketing tips that people should do? All right, Stan, we'll start with you.
SPEAKER_00:Um, tips for marketing, yeah. I think the biggest one for me is like use your guest and your network that you have on your show. If you have, if it's an interview style-based show, obviously if you're, you know, doing something more creative and narrative, it's a it's a little bit of a different story, but utilize the networks of those that are on your show because that's gonna help grow you so much faster. Like if you have XYZ celebrity or XYZ guest and they have 500 followers on LinkedIn, you know, and you're posting a video to LinkedIn, tag them. Um, you know, send them content that they can post. Make sure that you get that to them because sometimes the marketing that other people do for you is gonna be more beneficial than what you're doing for yourself.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, no, I really like that because we have Anna on here who has a huge market, and then we have Autofocus who has like 30 episodes, and so we get like 15 watches, which is probably like my mom and like maybe some friends from high school. So thank you guys. But now we have Anna here. So I'm so excited. And we'll and we'll collaborate on YouTube. So yeah, no, I really that is really good advice, and that and I do that all the time. Uh, but what about you? Okay, what are some marketing tips?
SPEAKER_03:Uh, I really liked your your tip uh about like the the the networking, and I'm gonna like add on to that before I go on on mine because I find that that's a mistake that a lot of hosts do because they start the podcast a little bit to what you're saying. Maybe they feel need to build that confidence, and so they invite all the friends that they know, and so they're not expanding on their network, and so they get used to that comfort level that is like, oh, it's just me and my best friend or my my good friend, and then they forget that the actual purpose of the podcast, again, going back to goals, what are your goals? Um, was to nurture that network, to expand that network. And I find that like if you're listening to this, ask yourself if you were to invite a new person on your show, and let's say you have like uh a weekly show, if you have one person who you don't know every single month, that is gonna be how many like, you know, no, no, I did the math, pardon me, but you know, like at least 20 new people um every single uh month at the end of the uh year that wrecks up.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And these are gonna be people who are like you spend one whole hour with, right? Besides if you did the prep or the after uh the episode. So just keep that in mind. Um, but for me it would be let's think about high effort, low effort, and combining that because I find that to what we were talking earlier about, you know, you don't always need to be perfect, you don't always need to do all the things. And I think that for me, I run my business first and then there's the podcast. And I think that people forget that like that. If you have the podcast as a tool for your business, you need to sometimes post an episode the following day as it wasn't supposed to. And that's okay. Why? Because we're looking at like the big, big picture, right? Like we're looking at if we skip a week, we tell our listeners, hey, we skipped a week. I'm so sorry, guys, right? Um, but what we come back, we don't dwindle in the oh my god, spiraling down, oh my gosh, they're gonna think that I like I I'm not great, or like I'm never coming back. Oh my god, I'm so embarrassed. Um they're never listening to another episode every movie ever. Um, so for me, what I do is if I have like interviews that are really in depth and are gonna include me, like I have I'll have to spend a lot of time going back and forth and the editing or just like doing a lot of like thinking because I do a lot of editorial editing, like, okay, what do I really want this episode to be about? This is fluff, goodbye. Why did I spend three hours uh explaining this question? Um, and like I did not goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. Um, to me is like, okay, if that happens one week, I need for the following week to be like maybe a shorter episode. And what I mean by this is like sometimes I publish an episode that is eight minutes long. Or I start by thinking it's gonna be eight minutes and I did 29. And I was like, oops, um, that went long. Um, but you know, like the prep of each episode, like, can we, and I'm a big fan of this, if one quote can inspire a life-changing moment or if it can lead to changing behavior, why can't a mini podcast episode, right? Like a three-minute show can really stick to someone's mind and go, wow, like that reframed everything that I knew about X, or just like it just helped me that day. So I think we need to think about like what is value and uh j juggle those two, like high effort, low effort in the marketing and the podcast itself. If you have a three-minute episode, it better be good because then you can cut clips out of that. Um, if you have a three-hour episode, it's gonna be three hours of editing, it's gonna be a lot of effort. So, in not just what you're doing in the moment, but how can we um think about like, okay, after we record, we still have like an X amount of hours. What do what capacity do we have this week? So that that was like my um long-winded answer to to that point.
SPEAKER_00:I do I want to add on to your your point earlier about like the getting guests on outside of your network, because the amount of hosts that we have that record with us right now, and most of them are doing it for business purposes, right? Like it's to help promote their business or do something. I can't tell you how many of them have been like, man, that interview that we set up for them, you know, or someone like a complete stranger that just reached out, that was a random connection, they're like, man, now we're doing business together. Like that was such a great connection. Like, wow, that was awesome. It's helping my business, it's helping me. Like maybe they're a new mentor, they're a new person, or we connected at a trade show. Like it really is a form of networking in itself. Is like, I would I would encourage people to think about outside of marketing, how can you use the guests that you bring on your show to help like build your own knowledge base and like help, you know, edify yourself in whatever craft or field that you're in, especially if you're a business owner or if you are promoting like um, you know, your own your own business or your own source of income or something in there. Um, Cy Kirby's one that every week he comes in and you know, we we throw him someone and he's like, Oh my gosh, that was great. We connected on this and this and this. And it's just so cool to see how podcasting can kind of bring connections.
SPEAKER_01:It's funny to see him too, because so he'll be like, Oh, this is gonna be a short one. And then an hour and a half later they're still going, and you're like, You're like, have you ever clothes?
SPEAKER_00:Like, and I'm like, Did you know him beforehand? He's like, No, no idea. We just met, like we were just chatting it up, and like, yeah, you know, so and then it ends up being two parts, like you know, right, right.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that's amazing. Okay, I do want to sidetrack just a little bit. So you talked about editing and like and how to like cut the stuff. I I wanted to be like, I because I really feel like it's really important to um be like your harshest editor, because I feel like um a lot of people were like, but I love what I said there, so it has to stay. How do you how do you get over? How do you choose like what stays and what what what goes?
SPEAKER_03:Well, I am very ruthless with myself. And I'm like, it was fluff. Um, but it depends on how you feel about yourself. Because if you're like, I have great ideas, and then you're like, everything stays. Um, I think that it's all about like, are you making it a by yourself? Um so I would say, is there value in what you're saying for the listener? But not only that, is it important for continuity? Because are you in and continuity meaning like, is there something within that section that you're gonna refer to later in the in the interview? Why am I losing my voice? My goodness. Um so yeah, I would say like for me is like, what is the value of the interview? And if you cannot answer what is the angle of the interview because there's too many sidetracks, choppy choppy. Yeah. So get cutten. Get cutten. Yeah, I think that to me that's that's the thing. Or it can be like with YouTube, let's let's actually like make a side note here. Why think about like everything has to be in there? It can be like an exclusive piece of content, a segment that goes on YouTube and you create a playlist, and it's just like moments from the show that didn't make the cut.
SPEAKER_00:There you go. You market it like behind the scenes. There you go. How about you? No, I agree. I think like my biggest thing is episodes need to be actionable for listeners. Like, why I always say, like, why did someone want to listen to it? Right? You could come in with an idea about I want to start a podcast on baseball, and it's and they're like, I have all this I can talk about. And I'm like, cool. Okay, what are you gonna talk about? Baseball, you know, like, are you gonna talk about like recaps of recent games? Are you gonna talk strategy on how to play? Are you gonna talk from a coach's perspective? Like, you really have to narrow in on what that goal is and like what is the value, like what's the angle? Um, and then just making sure that whatever you're giving people, it's worth their time listening to. Otherwise, they're not gonna listen. And that's probably gonna be your biggest problem.
SPEAKER_01:Those those are people that are thinking, like, but everything I say is amazing. Yeah, you know, so you're yeah, you gotta go.
SPEAKER_03:Like to a solo. Yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_00:You're like, you're like, if that's but but it's probably not like let me tell you, like Joe Rogan, I think he does it, you right? Like everything he says in his three hour long episodes, people probably listen to. So if you're Joe Rogan, you can do it.
SPEAKER_01:But you know, but I he probably had to work to get there. Yeah, right, exactly. Okay, back to the show. Well, that's my side, side, sidetrack of the day. But I I want to talk to you guys about social media advertising. So you don't, not everybody goes viral, um, and not everybody gets to find success without um spending a little bit of money. Um, so how do you how do you set up advertising, social advertising on, you know, and then uh when do you start that?
SPEAKER_00:For our clients, we really think that social media advertising can be really beneficial at the start of a show, um, mainly because it helps push out that idea in figuring out who your audience is. So we use it as like a way to get oh, cast a wider net initially. So then later down the road, we can really narrow it. Um, and so what that looks like is we we basically blast it on everything, right? We're like, hey, push it out here and here and here and here. And it's not really with any like mindset, it's more of like what's sticking, who's listening, who's clicking, what's happening, and that can help us figure out who your audience is a little bit faster. And then, you know, later down the road, once you've established a base, your content's good, you have something worth clicking to and worth promoting, that's when you can use that research that you did um to help kind of tailor in on those episodes. So no longer are you like pushing out on TikTok and Facebook and Google and all of these other advertising platforms. You're really just going, hey, like, you know, YouTube is really good. People are, you know, we're getting downloads, we're seeing that. Let's narrow in on YouTube or let's narrow in on Facebook. And this is where our audience is and who we can find a greater audience for. Um, I also think by casting that wider net initially, it helps you figure out what your content can be. Um, so when you're starting your show, you're figuring out what are we going to talk about, what do people care about? And so it's it's a helpful tool in figuring out how I can narrow my content to the audience that seems to be engaged for L Start.
SPEAKER_03:That's really good advice. How about you? I don't have any advice because I have not tried uh paid out. I only used Pinterest many years ago. Okay. Um, but it was like actually for the resources, the resources on the website. Um, and that's the only thing that I tried, but I have a question. Yeah. Um, so let's talk about misconceptions about marketing, right? Um, have you felt like a client came to you and they were like, I ace this platform? And then after advertisement, you were like, oh my gosh, there's a whole new niche for you here. There's like a whole new segment in this other social media platform, or was it like actually confirming what their guess was?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think the biggest thing that we see is clients will come out and they'll be like, oh, we don't want to be on that platform because I I don't do that, or we don't like nobody that's for our business is on there, nobody for our show is on there. And I'm like, there's probably someone for your show on every single platform. So never say never. Um, Pinterest is a great example of a client that was like, Man, I think Pinterest is a great opportunity for you. Like your content's around clothing, it's around branding, like it's around all of that. Like video ads are huge. I fall into the trap of clicking on those on Pinterest all the time. And I'm so angry when it goes to the website because I'm like, dang it. Like, I didn't know that that was an ad. Um so yeah, I think I think there's always opportunities for people to grow more often than not. Like you might think you have it all together, but really like yeah, these platforms are changing all the time too. You know, the audiences of who's on there, what goes viral, what's not, it's shifting all the time.
SPEAKER_01:That's funny. Yeah, and the Pinterest too, because yeah, because it's like a clothing store for men, and people think that Pinterest is for women, yeah, because you build a board and it's about decorating. And something like that, but that's just such a misconception, I feel like. Yeah. So that's really um Yeah. So it's it's really interesting to see just how um just just like how advertising can open people up to something and then hopefully like you know be open to what what the findings are. Yeah. That's what's great about a shotgun blast. But how like how many episodes should you have before you start advertising on it? Because I feel like you want to send if you're having, if you're doing advertising, you always want to send something, you know, you want to send them somewhere where they're gonna get enough, you know, like where they're gonna stay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think personally, it kind of depends on the advertising you're doing because my goal is I'm like, I'm just trying to get an episode or a channel um more views or more, more reach, more engagement. Um, so if I'm if my ultimate goal is like growing the channel as a whole, growing the show as a whole, um, then I definitely think that before you start that specific type of campaign, you're gonna want to have a good backlog of episodes. Because when you send people to your website or your YouTube channel or wherever you're hosting all of your episodes, side note, if you don't have one central location for all of your stuff to be, you should get that. Um, it doesn't have to be a website, it could be a link tree, it can be your channel. Like you just need some place that everyone can find all of your stuff for all of your platforms, not just Spotify. And so I think if you're gonna send people there, there needs to be content for them to listen to. And so, I mean, depends on the episode. If you're filming eight-minute episodes and that's what's going out, right, you're gonna need quite a lot of that for people to want to engage and it be worthwhile. Um three episodes is usually like a good starting point. If you have at least three episodes, people are gonna peruse it. That's usually enough to get people to stick, assuming that they're 30, 45 hour long episodes. Um it's 35 minutes. You said 45 hours. Minute. Yes. Nobody will listen to a 30 hour 45-hour podcast. Ken Burns. Yeah. It's just the longest podcast ever.
SPEAKER_01:It never ends. Don't give Eric that idea because he will do it. Oh, he will. Our founder is now it's a challenge. The 45-hour podcast. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It will be like find me hiking in a mountain.
SPEAKER_00:I'll document the adventures. Yeah, I know. Bringing him coffee every like. I know. Here you go. Keep going, keep going. Um, yeah. I think too, also, like, there's opportunities for advertising where if you have like a really good guest, we've used a scratch strategy before, like that you know people in that in your audience are gonna love, and you're like, I just my audience isn't big enough organically. I know not enough people are gonna see this, and it might not go viral because the algorithm doesn't love me. It's like push that one episode and and then people are gonna get hooked, and that's gonna show you to your show, like that's gonna drive you to your show. Um, so there's kind of two strategies. You can go with the like growing the show as a whole, but you can also go with like episode by episode content where you're like, I just want to cast a wider net with this specific piece of content. Yeah. And that you don't really need a whole backlog if you don't, because they get hooked by one episode. Yeah, there you go. And they'll and they'll keep coming back. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Because then you have to be consistent. Yeah, yeah. But I I I do have I want to ask you something.
SPEAKER_03:I know the answer to this, but um, I talk about misconceptions. Yes. People go, hmm. Should I do an let's let's stick to the episode format. I just want to push an episode. Should they uh push an episode like within like basically a solo episode, or should they push an episode with like a really famous guest?
SPEAKER_00:I hope that I have the correct answer for you.
SPEAKER_02:Um well it just depends.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean it really does. And I I will always say push it with a really popular guest, just because I think like you're gonna get more clicks. Like most of the advertising we do is on YouTube, and so thumbnails are your biggest way that people are clicking on them. And I always say, like, if if you're pushing an episode that people organically are already gonna want to click on, if you're promoting it, like the work's been doing is doing it for yourself, right? Um, to me, a solo episode is probably gonna get be harder, depending on the content. You might be really creative and have a great idea, like then push it. Um, but if you have a really popular person, I'm gonna say put some money behind it if you had the choice. Um, but I think it's dependent because there's a lot of situations I can think of right now that I'm not gonna go into where I might say it's a different approach. Um, what are what are your thoughts? I'm curious what your answer is.
SPEAKER_03:No, yeah. My thoughts, and this is where again it depends. I love that, right? Like for me, I know that every every single person that I work with, they never have um no one that fits necessarily a celebrity category. For them, they're like, you're a celebrity. Um, but for no one else in the internet, it's a celebrity. And so for for me, normally when I advise them strategically to push their own personal brand with a topic that resonates very well. So a really hot take that is like super like Bushes, like the oh man, like the emotion, right? Like it's something that you resonate right away, or it's something that makes you think that like cuts deep, and you're like, damn, I'm gonna think about that for the whole day. Um, or like humor always works, but again, if it doesn't match your personal brand, create expectations. But for me, um, most people that I work with, they will like doing the the celebrity guest would do them at this at the service. Yeah. But let me say that when I had Jay Klaus, uh host of the Creator Science podcast, he has like one of the biggest podcasts out there. I interviewed him like two years ago. And when I posted initially that he was my guest, an interview that had happened two years ago, by the way. Um, for a multitude of reasons, I had to like postpone it until showering it later. But um, everyone was like, oh my god, like Anna, I can't believe Jay. I love Jay. People were excited, but they were excited for me, but like a new crowd would be like, I don't know. So um it was it's always like, what is your goal with pushing that episode? And I always think about like not only what is your goal, but what is the listener's or the audience's next step. Think about listener behavior and audience behavior first. If they see that click, they clip, what will they do next? And setting up the expectation. Because if you share something that has humor, for instance, and your show was absolutely not about humor, uh it resonated a lot with an audience that knows you, it may not resonate with a new audience because they're like, man, I followed this account because I thought it was just like uh critical. I thought this would be funny. Yeah, like it's super serious. Yeah. So like I think that like that's when it's important to have like, you know, maybe someone like y'all who's like really questioning the why. Like, why are we putting money behind this, right? Yeah. And is like, is it are we going for critical mass, like for approaching and and making that clip right recognizable as many people to as many people as possible or not? So I think that is where I stand. No, um, but again, it depends. Yeah, depends what your goal is.
SPEAKER_00:I think you brought up a good point, like driving home that the question that you should ask yourself on whether you should be pushing the episode or not is does it align with your personal brand? Is it like a good example of what your whole show and your whole podcast is about? If it's not, don't put money behind it. Cause to Anna's point, like you're you're gonna get people that watch it and they're gonna get confused on what your show is and isn't.
SPEAKER_01:Um just wasting wasting money.
SPEAKER_00:Which is never good.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's awesome. All right, well, thank you guys so much for being here. Um, I want to wrap this up. So um I also want to talk to you guys. Like, I um I end every podcast with the same question, which is what advice would you give to someone that is just starting out? Go first. You got it.
SPEAKER_00:I'll let you take a step at it first.
SPEAKER_01:Like just starting. Just starting. Like they, like, like they're they like like they've just started, they've put so they've maybe maybe made a couple podcasts. They haven't gone viral yet, and they're like, I don't understand what's happening. I'm thinking I'm about to give up. What advice would you tell them?
SPEAKER_03:This is the second time you're asking me this question because we had an interview at Podcast Food, and I completely forgot about this this question. So I'm gonna go with like something that came to mind right away, which is remember to have fun. Strategic fun. Um but like try to experiment thing with things, like really let yourself, like that side of yourself that maybe your clients or your family resonate with, resonates with, try to bring that a little more to the show. Um, like for instance, we were kind of like cracking jokes in here. We still were professional, but we let our personalities come through. And I think that uh at the end of the day, people connect to people. Um, even you know, if you have three people who are knowledgeable about the same thing, it's their experience and how they make you feel that will make you make that decision, right? Like not about like you being perfect, but like what you bring from you, yourself, your experience, your expertise, everything. So I think that stop trying to compare yourself and be hard on yourself. Try to bring in like, okay, how can I have fun? Because when you have fun, the audience has fun. Um, and so I think that would be it. And it's more sustainable.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I love it. Um, I'll piggyback off of that. I think too, don't be discouraged by what others think about you. I think putting yourself online is like very scary. You're like, oh, what are people gonna think about me? I probably look stupid, that sounded bad. Like, don't don't be like that. Obviously, strategically criticize yourself, right? Like, if if you're giving yourself feedback, be your harshest critic. But uh give yourself some grace too, because I think consistency is does help in recording. Um, getting in front of the camera as many times as possible is gonna make your next thing so much better. Like episode one to episode five, you're probably gonna be like just oodles and oodles better than you were. Um, and then by the time you're on episode 50, hopefully you're at the point where like it's just natural, it's just a conversation and you don't have to freak out about it.
SPEAKER_01:That's good. Oh, amazing. Thank you guys. All right, before we wrap up, I want to give you um everyone one last chance to do uh do do it do a plug. Last last plug. Where can they find you? How can um, you know, um, how can people find you? Awesome.
SPEAKER_03:I am uh at thepodcastbase.com slash podcast if you want to listen to the show. It's uh releasing basically 10 episodes per season. And so um right now is the recording, I'm still on season four, so there's over a hundred and nine episodes out there for you to consume. So yeah, and if you want to talk to me, talk to me on Instagram. I'm at the podcast base. Very cool. Right now, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um make sure you come check out podcastvideos.com and tours are free. Yes, yes, freeze to studio tours anytime. We're located in Rogers, Arkansas. Um right over next to the Heroes Coffee and Pentacle. So come give a tour, chat with us, reach out to us on social media. We'd love to help get your stuff started.
SPEAKER_01:All right. Thank you guys so much. This was so much fun. All right, and I will see you guys later. Thank you.