Episode 67: Working Mom or Stay-at-Home Mom? Why Modern Mothers Don't Fit Either Label

Episode Description:

For decades, motherhood seemed to come with two clear categories: working mom or stay-at-home mom.

But what happens when neither label feels right?

In this episode, Christina and Kristina explore the growing gray area so many women now occupy. Women who are raising children while also building businesses, creating content, freelancing, volunteering, consulting, pursuing passion projects, or contributing financially in flexible ways that don't fit traditional definitions.

Together, they discuss how technology, shifting workplace expectations, rising childcare costs, and changing priorities have reshaped what motherhood looks like today.

They also dive into the invisible labor mothers carry every day, from managing schedules and appointments to coordinating the countless details that keep a household running.

Most importantly, they explore the deeper question behind all the labels:

Are women really searching for a title, or are they searching for a life that feels aligned with their values, priorities, and season of life?

Whether you work outside the home, stay home full-time, or find yourself somewhere in between, this conversation is a reminder that modern motherhood doesn't fit neatly into a box.

And maybe it was never supposed to.

In This Episode:

• Why the traditional "working mom" and "stay-at-home mom" labels feel outdated
• What it means to be a "working stay-at-home mom"
• How technology has changed motherhood and work
• The rise of flexible careers, side hustles, and creative entrepreneurship
• Childcare costs, flexibility, and the desire for more options
• The invisible labor mothers manage every day
• Why women feel pressure to explain what they do
• The motherhood guilt that exists on both sides
• Finding alignment instead of chasing labels

💗 Pink Spotlight
Each week, we share something that's bringing us joy lately.

T: LiiS Ethereal Wave fragrance. This clean, airy scent has become a recent favorite thanks to its fresh, crisp-laundry feel with notes of bergamot, cardamom, tea, blonde woods, and musk. Kristina loves that it's unique enough that people regularly stop to ask what she's wearing, but it's not a fragrance everyone else seems to have.

Christina: Salt & Stone Aluminum-Free Deodorant in Santal & Vetiver. After trying several natural deodorants over the years, this one has become a summer favorite. The scent is warm, fresh, and elevated without being overpowering. If you're new to the brand, their deodorant discovery pack is a great way to test a few scents and find your favorite.

Love the Episode?

If this episode resonated, it would mean so much if you took a moment to follow, rate, and review Pretty in Pink Again. It helps us grow, reach more women, and continue having these conversations that matter.

You can also follow along on Instagram @prettyinpinkagain @kristinabontempo and @christinatarabishy for more behind-the-scenes, clips, and everything we’re building beyond the mic. 💗

Transcript

0:00

I'm Christina. And I'm T. And this is the Pretty and Pink Again podcast. Where motherhood meets rediscovery. Hi. Hi. I have a question for you. Do you think that we need a new intro? Oh, wait. What's that? What's that all about? Are we- Okay. Okay we a little sick of what we had? Oh, t- give me some options. Well- Oh, wait. Are you gonna play Raja's thing? I'm dead. I cannot. So We've been back and forth on, like, should we do a little bit of a rebrand? When do we consider, like, season two? A lot of, like, internal things that we've been chatting about here at- Just rolling one day into the next P- yeah, P- Pippa. And my husband, who I feel like does not get enough credit for his creativity, he really is, like, a behind-the-scenes type of dude, and he is so funny, and he's very creative and doesn't get to,, use enough of the creativity. So he found an app that makes music, and we've made, several songs for the kids. It's hysterical. They'll say something, and we'll make, something funny out of it. It's been great. So he's, gave a little try at an intro for us, except when he started doing it, he didn't really realize, just like with AI, it's like you need to feed it. It's a skill to know how to, get what you want from AI, right? Yeah. Like you have to know what you're You have to- It's only as good as what you put in you have to It's only as good as your prompt, right? That's a skill, and so when he was putting this intro together, he was trying to feed it information, and it wasn't listening. It was taking- Or was it? Or was it? It was taking him way too literally. So I just wanna play this for you guys because this is what it came up with, and I think that we need to know if this should be our intro. Maybe we need something like this That part I didn't hate, right? Like, that wasn't that bad. But wait, just wait I, I cannot. And she goes with the tea. I c- I peed my pants when you played that. You're crying right now, you're laughing so hard. I actually told you when I sent it to you and Ang, I said, "Please use the restroom" "prior to opening this," because I could not breathe. It sounds like soft porn. Like, Raja and I were actually... We could not breathe. Did you play I was literally on the floor. Can- I c- I was crying. I'm still crying now. All right, Raj, we love this. Try again. Try again. Back to the drawing board. I'm open to a change. It is not that. Also maybe we need to feed it lyrics. It took, what you said and then made them lyrics. But I, I kinda like the idea of, like, something like that. Like, I like, like, a little, I don't know. I don't know if we do, like, more like Euro pop or if we do a little more, like Pretty in pink again. No. No, thank you. No, thank you. No, thank you. You know what I have playing in the house- So- right now? Yacht Rock house music. It is- It's a vibe 10 out of 10. I'm obsessed with it here, because it's kind of like '70s meets, like- Yeah, and it's very summer techno remixes. Yeah. It's so summer. I just had it on in the house, and I turned it off because we are recording. You had it on when I pulled into your driveway, and I thought you were having a rager in the backyard. But now it's on in the backyard. Well, let me tell you why it's on in the backyard. So if you listen to this, school will be out by the time we, this comes out. Yes, yes. But while we're recording it, school is still in session. Mm-hmm. We still have couple more days left. We have some freedom here. But my children are full-blown summer.. They've been outside at the pool- Mm-hmm with friends till 10:30 at night. Last night, I came in here, and I opened up the window, and I was like, "It's 10:30. You don't have to leave." Simmer down. "But I'm going to bed, so you boys are in charge." Everyone, yeah. "And if I come out here in the morning and it looks like a frat house, you lose the pool tomorrow." Because, and by a frat house, I mean, cans of seltzer. Seltzer. First of all, you know how much a can of seltzer is? Mm-hmm. It's very expensive. And also- I need to actually bring you over- Just the c- a, a, a little pallet of seltzers, 'cause I take them from you all the time. No stop. But a, a can of seltzer, even just the return on it is 10 cents. So pick up your cans of seltzer, put it in the little recycling bin. There's underwear, socks, shirts. The lost and found that I have here is already full. Let me tell you something. You do not sound like the T from a year ago, where you were, like, so excited about, like, not having a schedule, and you were like, "I can't wait until the kids are back for," "home all the time, and we're just gonna live it up this summer." I feel like you're sensing a little, "This might get rowdy." It's already rowdy. Just clean up your shit. That's all I'm asking for here. You wanna have your friends over, you wanna play loud music, you want me to order pizza, Domino's at 10:00, I'm here for it. Your kids are, like, almost teenagers. It's all good. Do it. Be here. Have fun. Just clean up your mess. I can't deal with the socks and the underwear and the whatever, the- I know. You have, like, kids that are, like, kind of partying here. And, like, not in, like, partying, but they're, like, hosting and partying, and like- It's so fun. Joseph last night came in our room, and he was like, "I'd like to have an end of year party here. I've invited seven or eight friends." I go, "Cool. Love it." "I'm here for it." Yeah. "D- do whatever." Yeah. "Have whoever you want here. I'm so happy for you. The more, the merrier." Yeah. Just clean up your mess. Oh, my God. So- Well- that's what's happening here, Yacht Rock and, uh, cans by the pool. Yep and so it's about to be summer break. It will probably be summer break by the time we're listening- Mm-hmm to this on air. Kids home for the summer, but it's gonna be a short summer. Yeah. Because by the time they get out- It's two months it's the very end of June. Yeah, it's two months. And then they go back at the end of August. Yeah. We're gonna blink and be- It's not a long summer break this year. It's not. I don't know. It was that crazy winter. Well, your kids are off though already. They're home. Yeah Leo's actually shocked me, 'cause his ended so much earlier. Mm-hmm. And like almost a month earlier than the other schools- Mm-hmm in town. And so- They don't really warn you about that we kind of have like three... Yeah, they don't really warn you until you see the last month schedule that didn't exist. Yeah. It was like, "Oh, it, it ends in May." Oh, okay. Like- Bye. Yeah. Okay. Wow. So, uh, yeah we have like three-ish months of summer, so we're technically already on summer break but we're keeping everybody busy. We have things to do. He is able to go back to school, like for like a couple of different weeks throughout the summer. They have- Oh, really? they have almost like little camps kind of set up, so he will, we'll be breaking up the summer a little bit. Do you know what that's telling me? Because let me tell you something, one week into summer break and I'm like, I am losing my mind. It's been crazy. So that's telling me that one of two things. The very smart mothers have said would you please take my kids back?" Three months is too long. Because being home for three months is too long, and the teachers are probably saying, "Hey, I'd like to make some extra cash." Yep, yep. Because that's the world we live in. It's so true. That's what I'm gonna lean into. Yeah. That's what I think the answer is. I agree with you. It's very fitting for today's episode because we wanted to tackle the working stay-at-home mom, I thought that this was, sort of an ironic statement. It is. The working stay-at-home mom. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I honestly feel like that's what I am, and that's what a lot of women are doing right now. I consider myself a working stay-at-home mom. Even though I have help sometimes, I'm home with the kids, and I'm working. But it's, I'm not out of the house, so even if somebody is in the house helping me out, I still feel, like, very much involved and very present, and very, like, still the in-charge person of the day, if that makes sense. Yeah. So I feel very split with that too, so that's why I do kind of consider myself like a working stay-at-home mom, like a hybrid role. Right. Well, I think- And you are for sure, like, have moved into this role over the last, like, year and a half. I was filling out paperwork for, I don't even know if it was for myself or it was for the kids. I was filling out something, and it said to put your occupation. And for the past 11 years, I, my occupation I would put homemaker. Mm-hmm. Or I would just leave it blank. Yeah. Or I'd put unemployed. Mm-hmm. Or I would just, I would leave it blank. What a complicated little box. But I was wondering, I'm like, why do they wanna know First of all, like, why do you ask? Just wondering. Yeah. Like, if anybody listening to this knows the reason, like why do they ask that question when you go to get a mammogram what's your occupation?" Interesting. Like, if they already have your insurance information and they know you're gonna pay, why do they wanna know your occupation? Maybe just- Just curious. Yeah. Anyways, 'cause that- You're just curious. Because that's always on, a lot of forms. So I would just leave it blank. Yeah. And on one of my most recent forms that I filled out, I put on there podcaster. Yeah. Yeah. And I thought, I was like, oh, that's interesting. I have an occupation. However, I still very much identify as a stay-at-home mom. Mm-hmm. Because I I stay home. Mm-hmm. I do everything for my kids, and I work- Around it whenever they're occupied. Yeah. Right. And I think you do the same. Yeah. I think you find pockets to work when your children are occupied. When I have help at home, which is, which has, over the last year and a half, I've added time and time- It's still not a lot, but yes It's now a decent chunk of time. But I still think because I'm there and I'm not really, tucked away most of the day, I flow around. It's just not like I'm up in my office with headphones on, like, staring at a computer, and I'm like, "Nobody bother me." I'm kind of all over the place. And again, I do work for myself too, so I, I do kind of, carve out time where I'm gonna be working. So it's a very confusing title for me too. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I just thought that there's always been such a divide amongst women, like the working mom and the stay-at-home mom, and I really think that women tend to live more in the middle now. Yeah. Because even a mother, a full-time working mom, I still think carves out time and has to do all of the children tasks too. So it's not really even fair to them to be like, "Oh, well, you're a working mom, so you don't know what it's like all day here with the kids." Like, like all of a sudden they're absolved of all of that, all of the responsibilities that come along with that. Right. No. That's not true. They just have- Right less time to do it. Right. And as a stay-at-home mom, you don't have any of your own maybe financial backbone to fall back on if, I don't know, something happened to your spouse or something happened to your other source of income, and maybe you're required to do more tasks within the house or with your kids, or you have to find other ways to fill your time amy used the word ambitious last week. Oh. And I loved that word. Like, how to remain an ambitious woman. So whether that's through philanthropy work or whether you're on the PTO at school or whether you are taking pride in cleaning your home and organizing things or whatever it is you're doing to fill your time, that's still considered work- Right in, in my book. It, I feel like the lines have just blurred so much and we're s- we have completely moved away from a more traditional you're a stay-at-home mom, you're a working mom. There's such a blend. Mm-hmm. I think that really where the head came was probably during the pandemic, which we've dissected a million times with everybody when we've had guests on and everyone shares their story. It really seemed like 2020 was such a huge, pivotal point for people- Mm-hmm because there became more of blurred lines than- Mm-hmm there had ever been before. And I also think people started making decisions of does this make sense for me to go back to work and can I still work if I'm home with my kids and maybe I just need somebody there in the house? Things just blurred and got so much more complicated it seemed around that point. But I think even since Joseph just turned 13, so you have now been a stay-at-home mom, if you will, for 13 years, and I think even since that point, you have even mentioned, things are so different than they used to be. Things are so different. And things could be different because I'm around different people now, brought this up to me earlier, that when he was first born, it was almost a flex for me and Nick, for Nick to be like, "I got this financially. Stay home You don't have to go back to work." And I'd be like, "Oh, okay. We can afford for me not to work? Cool. I'll stay home. That's awesome. I'm one of the lucky ones." Mm-hmm. But I don't think I would ever say those words to anybody ever now, in 2026 today, like, "I can afford not to work." Because I think working, while it does provide you m- like monetarily, stability and financially, but like it provides so much more, too, for somebody. So when people say, "I don't have to work," what do you even mean by that? Right. Or like, oh, if her significant other makes a lot of money, the wife doesn't have to work. What does that even mean? I think that it just changed so much. I I'm not hearing that either. I don't hear, I don't hear it anymore. My, and I'm in a, I'm in a different phase of motherhood, if you wanna call it generation, right- Yeah where we almost had kids like almost a decade- 10 years apart apart from each other. Yeah. Which is so, it's huge, and it's a different point of motherhood. But I don't hear that a lot, but I also think that it's another one of those things where that answer becomes so much more complicated. Maybe there is no flex anymore. I'm sure with some people there's a flex, right? But I don't think that the flex is that sort of flex anymore. I think that the answer became maybe the husband traditionally does make a lot and the wife doesn't have to work, but maybe it is the childcare cost is so insane right now that it doesn't make sense to have to put a kid in full-time daycare for the wife to go back to work, and it eats her entire salary up if there's multiple kids involved. So I think that the conversation becomes less about the flex of like, "Could I stay home?" to, "Does this even work for our family?" And I don't think it's working for a lot of people- right now. Well, to that point Even staying home then, so giving up your salary, staying home, saving the cost associated with childcare, and then the woman is like, "But wait, I still need to make some money for our family." So now you have a working stay-at-home mom- Right where you have then created a side hustle or some type of creative outlet while your kids are maybe napping or playing or this and that. And instead of maybe filling your time with just being present with your children, maybe some of that other time that you would be spending doing something mindless, maybe you're trying to make some money doing that. Right. And I think that's where I'm seeing a lot of women live these days. I agree with you. I agree with you. And there's so many, to your point earlier about COVID, although it was horrible in so many ways, it allowed for so many of these platforms, so much- Opportunities freelance work that you can do. Yep. You can have a whole digital life. You can, if you have a iPhone, you can be a content creator- Yep and you can have a niche about anything. Yes. There's, like, so many different ways. Like, there's so many side hustles now. So I think that the terms just stay-at-home mom, working mom it really sort of becomes a lot of women are working stay-at-home moms. And the stats that we pulled before this episode were jarring, that it's now one in four women are considered a stay-at-home mom. I don't know if that means truly, like, not having anything else except being a stay-at-home mom, but one in four women are home with their kids, and that has changed significantly in the last 40 years. It used to be opposite- Mm-hmm where one in four women were working. Right. I mean, that is so huge to think that in 40 years that it has shifted that much, and it just speaks to so much that's going on. Well, I think it speaks to two things. I think that there's more opportunity for women to work. Mm-hmm. And also, like, I think it speaks to, like, the financial climate that we're in, of how expensive this world is. Like, we were just talking off-air before we started filming about our credit card bills- Mm-hmm and what we have to make a day to live. Like, when you think of it like that, it's like, holy crap. This, like, adds up. The- everything adds up, yep. It adds up. Like, I was paying off my credit card. Like, every time I made a few charges, it would, like, pay it automatically so the balance never got high. And one month we were advised to just wait until the end so you could, like, actually see that number, and when I saw the number, I wanted to vomit. It's crazy. I'm like, It is so crazy. It really is. So I see why even if you are a stay-at-home mom, why there is this probably push that we're seeing or maybe this urge that we're seeing- Mm-hmm from some of those women to find something, like some sort of side gig, and we are in, in a space. That's why I feel like whenever we have a guest on that I can sort of like poke and be like, "Okay," like, "how could we apply this to the PIPAs that maybe are listening in and maybe want something?" You know? Mm-hmm. Like, maybe are looking for a side hustle. I always find those stories so fascinating and also just so inspiring because we're in this place where m- people might need a side hustle, either if you're working or if you're not. Mm-hmm. Like, that's the type of world that we live in right now, so I'm always fishing for information- I know on how we can have some of these side hustles and learn about them. Let me ask you a question. Yeah. Do you think income is required to say that you're working? Ooh. I don't. Do you think your husband, or maybe not you, your s- husband specifically, but do you think that a husband would agree with that? No. I don't. Same. Also same. Yeah. I don't think that my husband would agree with that either. Right. I think my husband was like, "No, she doesn't work," even when I was volunteering full time, 'cause that's another question, like, does volunteer work count? Oof. It's get- It's work. Oof. It's so complicated. It has, it has meaning work. Yes, I get, like, a little cringey answering that question because I feel like it's very much not fair to put a label on that, you know? I know. I'm not trying to label. I'm just- No, I get it opening up, like- Yeah I'm just opening up the conversation. Like, does volunteer work count? I don't know, it has the name work in it. I think fairly it should count. Fairly it should. Right? Like, I think, I do think it should count. I agree. I agree. I think if you have- It's important work but I guess then it kind of borders on, like, is it a hobby? Yeah. Is it... You know? So I could see, I guess maybe it depends per household, like we just said, like between you and your spouse, like you would decide what is work and what is- Well, I will tell you, your accountant will tell you, no, it is not a job, it is a hobby. Yeah. Like, unless you are- I guess in society it would probably tell you no unless you are getting a 1099- Yeah. Yeah, that's true it's a hobby. But I just wanna dive into that. I went to drive my kids to school today- Mm-hmm and the PTO was setting up bright and early before school even started, the, field day. Mm-hmm. And the women on the PTO have had the most insane careers. They are such bright women. When you talk to them, like, what their jobs were, now they have decided to stay home and raise their children- Mm-hmm and devote their time to the- Mm-hmm PTO- Mm-hmm which is, I think, a full-time job. They're always at that school. But, like, that's not considered a job. Yeah. Those women consider themselves- Ugh stay-at-home moms. Yeah. But they are at that school all day long working, providing extra things that our taxes don't pay for- Yeah at the school. Yep. So I'm just saying, like, there's so many things that women do. Yeah. But back to your question about filling out the damn box- Yeah. it's like maybe that's why. We're filling out so that we have statistics saying one in four women stays home- right now. Like, maybe that's where they're getting some of those infor- Yeah, you're getting the statistics- that information on who's filing a tax form- Exactly and who's not. Exactly. But I th- I mean, I guess to that effect, like, yes, if you're filing a tax form and those things count towards income, it's considered work. Yeah. But I think that there's other things that are work that don't get classified that way. But then I guess it kind of does border into hobby. The lines are so blurred. Which is why- But I think it- if somebody asked you, you wouldn't say, "Oh, well, I'm on the PTO, and oh, well, I volunteer, and oh, well, I do that," 'cause it's very tiring, and it's exhausting, and it almost feels like you're overcompensating. Yeah. So the short answer is no. Don't work. No. Ugh. And that was my answer- Yeah for many years. I guess, like, we're really not answering our own question where is income required to be a working mom? We both feel like we're on the fence about it. Like, we see both sides of it. Well, 'cause I don't wanna play into a role where I have to put it in a box. Because what I'm trying to do is, like, think out of the box- Mm-hmm and bridge the gap between these two buckets of women and say, like, everybody's doing overlapping work. Right. But the working mom that's getting a paycheck from whether it's from a company or whether it's from your side hustle, or whether it's from selling on Etsy, versus somebody that, you know, is raising children and also volunteering their time to help better your children while you're at work. Like- I know you know what I mean? Yes. I'm just saying, i'm just trying to even the playing field a little bit with this conversation. So it's, like, hard to answer that- It's hard to answer because society wants you to say, "Yes, an income is required to be a working mom." And maybe some working moms would th- would think that. Would say, like- Yeah "No, you're not a working mom. You don't know what it's like to be- Yeah a working mom, so you need an income- Right to kind of wear that badge. And a stay-at-home mom might s- might feel like, no, you need to be home with your kids and really feel like you're the one home with your kids to wear that badge proudly. I think that there is some division between the two, but I think that the lines are blurring so much that I feel like can, does purpose count, right? Even if it doesn't generate an income. Like, it just gets so sloppy. Like- Mm-hmm and I don't like speaking for other women. You know? Like, I only like speaking for my point of view and myself, so I don't wanna ever generalize too much. But- Right I just think this is such an interesting conversation. And we'll tease that we have some incredible working moms that are coming on the podcast over the next month or two-ish, probably, like- Yeah f- throughout the summer, that have incredible stories, and we're gonna poke at this question a lot more. Right, that can speak more to that side- Yes and, oh, really at, like, the corporate side, even. Yes, yes. Because I'll- Not, not even at the side hustle side. That's what, that's exactly the- Like, the corporate side that's exactly my point, is sometimes I even feel weird calling myself, like, a working mom, even though I generate an income. Because of what I said at the beginning of the episode, I'm home with the kids, I still see my kids. I'm not rushing out the door at 8:00 AM, you know, to make it on time. I'm not working for somebody else, you know? I work for myself. So I guess I kind of consider what I do, even though it is full-time, it is kind of like a side hustle, if that, you know what I mean? Like, so I f- I kind of almost put myself into a category of, like, I do a side hustle that just happens to generate income, because I feel even weird positioning myself as, like, a working mom, 'cause I think that label goes to, like, the corporate mom who, is out of the house all of the time and has a lot more to juggle because they're not home. Right. Well, what if you really just position yourself as that currently in this phase of life, you've positioned yourself to put your kids first. Well, I just have flexibility. And because you are putting- Yes your kids first in your day- Yes I'm saying, like- Yes the kids are coming first in your day. Not to say a working mom, their kids don't come first in their day, but some days maybe their job has to come first in their day. I think that your day starts and ends with the kids- It does and you piece work around them. So I think that's why you are getting that sense of being the stay-at-home mom. Right. Because your whole day and your whole life is surrounded by them. Right. What's working for them, like, their activities, their this, their wellbeing, you know? And then you piecemeal everything around that. Yes. I piecemeal- You know? the help around them. If I have something specific going on for work, I can piece together help around there. It's complicated, so. Yeah. But- And well, and I do the same. Yep. And I'm proud to do the same, and I'm happy that I get to do the same, because I enjoy doing that. Right. You know? Like, and I can say that with pride and with pleasure that I get to do that. I feel the same way. But I also like to dabble in some income. Right. And I'm not too ashamed to say that either. No, for sure. You know? Right. So it's like I wanna, what do they say, like, have my cake and eat it too- But that's again why I think that there's been this huge rise in these careers like creators, now podcasters, which we are both of those things now- Mm-hmm like fitness instructors, realtors, Etsy shop owners, like small business owners, consultants, coaches, online coaches. Like, there's been this rise in those types of jobs for the reason that you just said, where you feel like you want to primarily be with your kids, but maybe the family decides that we need some extra income, or maybe you decide that you just wanna do something else besides be a mom and a stay-at-home mom. And so the rise of these careers makes sense with that. Why do you think- Women want careers. Do you think that women want careers for financial reasons? Do you think that women want careers for something for themselves? Mm. Do you think that, like, a well-rounded woman is a working woman? I think that's another loaded question, and I don't wanna speak for everybody, so this is obviously just my opinion. So maybe, maybe we just have to answer for ourselves then. Why do you think these statistics have shifted now? Well, I think there's probably a ton of different reasons, but I'm, I think that the main ones can be that you don't have a choice, right? Because of the economy that we're in. I think that some women are the breadwinners of the family and don't have a choice. The family relies- Yeah on that strong- Sure income. Mm-hmm. And maybe the husband or the partner's income is less than, so you need that strong income- in order to live, especially in the economy that we're at today. So I think that sometimes- And it's not changing it's not a choice. I also think that women are having kids later in life, which is another statistic. Mm-hmm. And I think that when you think about that, and when you think about the amount of time you have invested in your career- Why would you leave that? it's hard to leave. So I think that you toggle with that more than if you graduated college or if you didn't go to college 40 years ago, and your, just the next role was to get married and have a kid. There's really nothing to, quote-unquote, "leave behind" and make a decision about. But if- Right, that was me, by the way. Yeah. You had kids young. I, I had Joseph at 26. I started working when I was 21. Yeah. I wasn't leaving behind this really long career. I think that some women now are leaving behind, it could be decades long of a career that they have worked towards, and they don't wanna leave that behind. And then I also think that, if you think about our generation and how many women did continuing education after college, again, that's setting you back, right, to start your career later in life. You now have loans from those things. Maybe you didn't even get your career started, and again, it's something to leave behind. So I think that there's all of these different reasons why people wouldn't wanna, like, leave that. I feel like for me, I was, like, a little bit in the middle of that, where I built something after college, and I was able to leave, like, my, quote-unquote, "corporate job" to do the business that I had built on the side of that, and I was able to do that full time. And then when I became a mom, I wanted to do both. I wanted to have my cake and eat it too. I didn't wanna leave behind the work that I had built and the relationships and, and the audience and all of that that I had built. I felt like I really had built something for myself, and so I wanted to do both. Right. And we were told as millennials that we could do it all. And so we think that. It all. Well, let me tell you something. No, we have- Very exhausting. It, we, I think it's probably causing, it's why there's probably such, like, this also huge pandemic, if you will, of, like, mental health, a crisis that's going on. Yeah. It's because we're so burnt to a crisp from trying to do it all and trying to have all of the things and trying to keep up, but that was because that's what we were told that we could do. Well, and then we're also seeing it. We're see- now we're seeing it. We're seeing it play out. We're seeing people, people do it all. I'm trying to right now do it all. Can you do it all? Yes. Does it come at a cost? Also yes, you know? So a- as much as I think that this is incredible that we have all of these opportunities, and yes, it's like you don't wanna, quote-unquote, "waste your degree" or waste your career or, if you wanna use terms like that, but at the same time, eh, simplicity of the more traditional Stay-at-home mom and the man goes to work seems so much more- Right simple and digestible to me right now because it's so hard trying to manage to do it all. And I think that when you do too much and you're split different ways, it's hard to give your all to anything. Right. I remember hearing from mentors when I was working, it's really important to have a really good work-life balance. Mm-hmm. Bullshit. But I'm not hearing that term anymore. What I hear more now is work-life integration, because I think people work from home, and people have side hustles, and people don't just work from 9:00 to 5:00. They find a way to integrate their life into work and work into their life. Mm-hmm. But if you are doing work that you don't enjoy, then your life then becomes miserable. And also, like, if your life is messy and you don't have good systems set up in your life, then your work become messy. So I think the secret sauce for people who are doing side hustles that they're passionate about, that they can turn that into a successful business that they can then monetize- Mm-hmm or franchise or scale or whatever those fancy words are Then you have a nice work-life integration. Right, right. You know? Yes. It's not so much like I work here, I clock in, I come home, I mom. I think that really successful people find a good way w- To integrate to, to integrate the two. Yes. Yes. And again, that's what I would like to do. Mm-hmm. Like, I don't ever wanna be a mom that says, "Ugh, I'm sorry I can't come today 'cause I have to go to work." I want my kids to hear me say like, "I like what I'm doing. I'm happy to go to work. It lights me up. It's exciting. I'm passionate about it." Yeah, yeah. "And also it provides money." I think that is best case scenario. Does that happen in a perfect world? Absolutely fucking not. It's called work for a reason. Right, exactly. It is meant to be- Yep hard. It is meant to take you away from, other things that you wanna do in your day. Mm. I understand that. Mm-hmm. I am not tone deaf to that. Yeah. But I do think that if you want to, quote, unquote, "have it all," you have to find some type of integration system- And that's why I'm excited- in 2026 for sure, and that's why I'm excited to talk to some of these other moms, because I love getting other perspectives, and I love asking people the question of like, "How are you doing this?" Not, "How do you have it all?" Or like, "What's your balance?" I think that's all interesting, but it's like, how are you doing this so that it works for your family? I always think that's in- an interesting perspective to have, so I'm excited that we're gonna be able to dive into this a little bit more this summer- Yeah for sure. The answer I'm sure is not all gonna be sunshine and daisies. I'm sure the answers are gonna be- Mm-hmm I miss birthdays, I miss school plays. Yep. I miss vacations. I miss- Milestones milestones. Yep. I'm sure, I'm sure we're gonna hear it all- Mm-hmm and I'm really excited to hear it all. I wanna go back to something that you had said earlier, because you had asked a question about, being a stay-at-home mom and like all the stuff that obviously moms do And how it doesn't count as work, which is bullshit. We all know, right? Birthday parties, teacher's gifts. Are you the parent organizing the party at school? Are you the parent collecting the Venmo, or are you the parent sending the Venmo? Are you the volunteer? Are you the one that's, like, showing up and organizing all the play dates- Chauffeuring and hosting all the parties, and driving everywhere, and all the other kids, this and that. How about, signing kids up for extracurriculars? That itself could be, like, a part-time job. Like, it is insane. Meal planning, household logistics, managing all the emotions that come with all of the house. That's, like, emotional labor, literally. But, like, if a corporation hired someone to manage all that shit, it would be a job, correct? Well, yeah, 1000%. They would call that an executive assistant. So part of me, because I was a little bit more of, like, the blurred version of myself when I had Leo. I was a stay-at-home mom because I did not have paid help at that time. I relied on my mom. I relied on Raja having a flexible schedule. So I was the primary caregiver- Who works during that- for a year and a half of that. So I feel like my eyes widely opened to all of that and how that is not really valued the same way, right? And I feel like that could be a whole episode on its own, and I get frustrated for stay-at-home moms for that reason, that it in society, doesn't get looked at the same way. You know? Like, you're just home all day, and that is, that could not be farther from the truth. I've been doing these, like, day in the life- videos on Instagram. Mm-hmm. And some of them, I just haven't even posted. I film them all day, and I'm like, "I don't even wanna post this," because I look like a crazy person, all the stuff I try to cram into the five hours and 35 minutes that I have when my children aren't in this house every day. Like, I zoom around this house trying to get so many things done before they get home so that I can- Yeah, but- take them to all of their things- Yeah, but I was gonna say- and do all the things, to your point, that's, like, that's even annoying to hear because you're saying cram it all into five and a half hours. Like, that's that one chunk of your day. And then when the kids get home, you're on then for the re- the rest of the day until 10:30 when you go to sleep. And so that day is long and strenuous, and you're working every second of that day. But I often wonder if I paused everything that I was doing, and I took a position outside the home that paid a significant amount of money, and then I outsourced what I was doing during the day, would I be happier doing that? Like, I think I'm, I think I'm happy doing what I'm doing now. Yeah. I like doing the work. I like doing the chores. I just have to be okay with the title. Yes. You know what I mean? And I think that part of that part of this is self-inflicted. Ooh. Like, I don't know if it's society or if it's just, like, me. Like, the stay-at-home moms, we just have to be more proud and take, you know, and just be okay with that this, we get to do this. And like, we're not outsourcing this work. We're taking it on ourselves, and we have to be okay and proud with the fact that's what we've decided to do. That's really interesting because you had used the word at the beginning of the podcast, like, it was a flex to say that you were a stay-at-home mom at one point, right? Mm-hmm. And now it comes with a lot of maybe you need a backstory for that, right? Like, it's like if you're a stay-at-home mom, it's like, "Oh, but I also," or, "Oh, but I had to leave my jo-," You know, I feel like there is almost, like, a story around why- Mm-hmm you're a stay-at-home mom now, and I think that you're, to your point, you just need to be comfortable with that title. Like, there doesn't need to be anything. Yeah. I think that comes with time and age and being around less people and having to explain myself less, maybe because I have a public platform, so I don't have to explain now. Maybe people already know it, or maybe the people in my life are already- Well, they're seeing that you- familiar with it quote, unquote, "have something else." You know? Right? And so now- Yeah, maybe Yeah maybe there's less. But- Yeah or maybe I'm just aging and I'm just becoming more comfortable with what I'm doing with my life. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Like, I think part of this whole sort of, like, tug of war is you have to be okay with where you're at. And I think that you ha- we hopefully get to a point where you don't have to explain yourself- Yeah regardless of what your position is. If you're a working mom, you might feel right now that you need to explain yourself and justify why you have to work and why you're not with your kids, and when you're a stay-at-home mom, you have to justify why you're home with your kids and why you don't have a purpose outside of your family. There's just a lot of, like, judgment I feel like, but I don't know if there's really a lot of judgment. You know what I mean? I think it could, a lot of it- It's, like, internal can come from self. Yes. Yes. Because- Being a stay-at-home mom does not mean you get to lay on a couch and watch Housewives. I mean, I guess it could. It certainly could, but that's never happened to me. I mean, I will say I have enjoyed a day by the pool with a book, and I'm not too ashamed to say that. Of course. There's- But- no shame in a little downtime- But- when you can have it But- But you're also probably- Most days- negating a lot of, with other responsibilities. You were just saying to yourself- Yeah "I'm gonna lay out." Right. And ignore all of the other million things that I could be doing. Right. Yeah. But for the most part, I think now that I see a lot of women that are stay-at-home moms basically spin their wheels all day long trying to cram things in while their kids are in school- Mm-hmm I'm like, "Oh, so we're all in this together." Everybody's the same. We're all t- Yep we're all in the mud. I think we all just need to drop the titles, right? It's like everyone is just a mom. And there's work in managing the kids and the household. There's work outside of that. And I think the goal is just to be fulfilled in a way that makes sense for you, so maybe the question isn't are you a stay-at-home mom or are you a working mom? It's just the goal is to drop the freaking label altogether, right? Because we know that there's now such a blend of the two, and we know it really doesn't matter, right? There doesn't need to be this division between the two. I think that if you create a life that feels aligned with who you are- Mm-hmm and that will change as your children grow and as you grow, maybe that's where real success is, when you are making peace with where you're at in your life. Right, right. You know? Totally. Totally. Maybe as the older I get, the less interested I am in labels anyway. Mm-hmm. Label for clothing- Yeah label for job titles. Yeah. And you just get more drawn to what's underneath the label and just, the human being behind it. Yes, I agree. I do think that's coming with age for sure- Yeah and experience and- Yeah. The label is just the outside. We always say, like, "What's in the back?" Right. That's always- Right so much more interesting. Right. Totally. And I'm excited to talk about this further in a couple weeks with- Same some really exciting ladies that you guys will love hearing from. Same. Same. Same. Okay. We're gonna end our episode with our Pink Spotlight- Ooh which is our person, place, thing, tip, mantra, saying. The list goes on and on and on. I know. We keep adding to it every single week. Mine was gonna be the yacht rock house music- We already talked about that but, uh, we already talked about that. Yeah. I still hear it playing outside. My dad is here fixing a toilet right now- in the basement. I called him this morning, and I put my phone up to, like, the house like this, and I was like, "I hear a noise, Dad. I hear a noise in the house." Like, I'm a walking meme. And he- You know? Yes, you are. Like, when girls on Instagram- You are like, when girls call their dad- You are and they're like, "Dad, Dad"- And he just comes right over and he was like, "Oh, you know what that is? The toilet's running in the basement. That's water running." I'm like, "How did you know that?" So he's, like, fixing something- He's here outside. He's here. But anyways, so my Pink Spotlight this week, so I have been getting stopped multiple times because of how I smell. Ooh. I was playing tennis with this girl recently, and she's like, "What were you wearing during the match?" So I've been lying to everybody and telling everybody it was my laundry detergent, 'cause I thought it was my laundry detergent. Oh. I wear, I'm wearing a dress today that was dry cleaned, so I- was not my laundry detergent. Right. And somebody stopped me today and said, "You smell so good." And I was like, "It's my la- oh my God, no, it's not my laundry detergent, because this dress was dry cleaned, so there is no laundry detergent. It's my perfume." What is this? I don't even know what it is. So I don't really know what it is either. I got it at my girlfriend's store three years ago in Old Wethersfield. Okay. Jackie's. But I think you can get it, like, on Revolve or some other website. The, it's called L-I-I-S, Liis. I don't know- No if that, what brand that is. But the fragrance is Ethereal Wave. Ooh. K- I- Okay. Very vague I smell, I smell delicious. Okay. W- let me smell and I get, people stop me all the time like, "You smell so good," and I've been lying to you and telling you it's my laundry detergent. It's not. Oh, I love it. It's my perfume. No. But it's very light. Ooh. It is. It's super light. It does, it does smell l- uh, laundry-esque. It smells laundry-esque. It do- clean it's super light, and I only wear, like, a spritz, and I don't even realize that I'm wearing it- Yeah 'cause it's so light. Like, you can't... You know sometimes- Yes when you're wearing perfume and you smell it on yourself? Yep You cannot smell it when you're wearing it Oh, I love it. It's very clean and it's very like- It is. It's super clean and it looks, it's like a pretty- It is. It's a- bottle. But you'll see, like I've had this for years and it's not anywhere near empty You know what I'll say? There's something so nice about having a unique fragrance right now, because I feel like I smell the same shit every time I'm going around. Like, everyone smells the damn same. I smell like Baccarat Rouge everywhere I go. Or a knockoff version of it, because it's like $700 for a bottle. Mm-hmm. It's, but I feel like it's so nice to walk by somebody and like get a whiff of something that's not that. A unique fragrance. A unique fragrance, so that's really nice. Then all of, I think, the big fragrance companies get these inspired by versions and like, my boys actually bought them at Walmart, like the Santal... What's that one? Like, the main one that the 1 Hotel smells like. Oh, the um- What is it? Santal something or other. The One? The 1 Hotel smells like the fragrance brand We have the whole- Sandalwood Santal something Santal. It's, it's something like that I don't know. But whatever the number. Anyways, whatever. Okay. But my boys wear the knockoff version from Walmart, and, like, they wear the knockoff version of Creed. They wear the knockoff for- Actually, no, they wear the real one. My husband wears the knockoff. Like, that's what's happening in this house. But it's just all the same. But anyways, it's all the same. It's the same. It's all the same. It's all, like, musky smell. Right. And I like that this, that would, that is, like, that would stop me in my tracks because it's, it's nice and clean and unique. Yeah. And I love that. I think, I looked on Revolve. They sell it on Revolve, and there's, like, a couple different smells. My two sisters wear it also. Oh, I love it. But- We'll link it for you guys but anyways, that's what you're smelling. Oh, that's so nice. I- So if I've told you recently that it was my laundry detergent, I lied to you. I didn't do it intentionally. I just thought it was- You didn't know my laundry detergent. It's, it, it does smell like clean laundry. But so it's funny- What's yours? that I'm doing an, I'm doing a fragrance-y thing today too. Oh, tell me. But so mine is my deodorant- Ooh that I've used forever. This is not a new product, but I love it. It's by Salt and Stone. Ooh. And this is Santal and Vetiver. Ooh. But I love, I literally love all of their fragrances. So this is aluminum-free deodorant. Mm-hmm. I do not wear a aluminum deodorant, but I feel like most alum- aluminum-free deodorants suck. Like, they do not do the job. I had found one that I liked on Amazon that I had been using for a really long time, but there was very, very little fragrance to it, so I feel like it just didn't have that. Although it was, like, helping me feel fresh, there wasn't, like, a fresh smell. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I was like, "Oh, I'm kind of missing this." Like, I want something that, like, smells nice and, like, is luxurious. So I tried this a while ago and, but I ended up with the sample pack. Like, I bought the sample. There was, like, a bunch of mini ones first. Oh, so you could see which scent you were drawn to. So I went, yep, I could kinda see what scent I liked. I immediately liked the Santal and it's Vetiver, I think that's how you say that. But so I bought the big one of it, and now I have all of the travel minis stashed all around. So I have, like, one in my toiletry case. I have one in my beach bag, and I have one in my purse all the time. C- it came in a s- Oh, smart pack of three. So I have them spread out. That's clever. But this smells so nice. I just got another one 'cause I just bought the new pack of- Are those natural nails you have on right now? I do. Ooh. That was also gonna be my pink spotlight. Girls, I took my nails off- Can we talk about that for a minute? for the first time in a really long time. Oh my God, this smells so good. That smells, it smells so good. Oh. So what I would suggest is I think that it's- Oh my God, this is, I wanna get this for the boys. Oh, literal- I feel like they would like it too it's, it's like a unisex one unisex. It's a unisex one. Oh. I- it is amazing. They also make, like, body washes. I, I really love the brand and- This is such cute packaging But what I would suggest, because I do hear from some people where they're like, "Oh, it's not strong enough for me." So you could always get like a good aluminum-free deodorant that like maybe doesn't have a scent. I will also link the one that I use, like especially if it's like really hot out. I do, I do like a combo where I'll use the roll-on and then I'll use this for a little fragrance. But most of the time I could just get away with using this. But that's what I would do if you feel like you're like extra sweaty or if it's hot. Mm-hmm. Because aluminum deodorant is awful for you, so we all have to switch. But it's hard to do because then you don't get the actual like deodorant part of it. I know. But we need to switch girls. So if we haven't made the switch already, this is like a really great brand and I feel like you'll be amazing. I don't even have deodorant. I don't even k- keep it in my room. You don't even use it? I don't even use it. And I do need to use it, so sometimes on like sweaty days I'll walk down the hall and I'll use my kids' deodorant. Ooh. 'Cause they all have it because they like the scents- Yeah and this and that. And- Well, you should try this. This is- The girls like- amazing Lume or some, you know- Yeah they have all their- Lume or something. Yeah, yeah they have all their like aluminum- Yeah free deodorants. And they're seven, they don't need to wear deodorant. Yeah. I'm the one that needs to be wearing it, but they buy it because they like the fragrances and they like- Yeah how it looks on their- Well, you should order this thing. So maybe I should order that- This is so nice and try it out. And I love it. And they have amazing body wash too. I'm like obsessed. Ooh. So I'll link that too. Good find. Yeah. I love it. All right. So we will see everybody next week. I know. We have a stacked summer. We do. Which I'm excited for. We have lots of fun guests coming on. Yeah. All right, ladies. All right, girls. Happy summer. Wear your deodorant. It's a hot one out there. Bye.