2022 & 2023 Congressional UAP Hearings

Congressional hearing rooms aren't typically where you'd expect to hear about recovered non-human biologics or pilots being harassed into silence about UFO encounters. Yet in July 2023, that's exactly what happened when three credible witnesses testified under oath before the House Oversight Committee.

The 2023 UAP hearings represent a seismic shift in how our government addresses unidentified aerial phenomena. Former intelligence officer David Grusch shocked lawmakers with claims of decades-long crash retrieval programs and recovered non-human biologics, while describing the "corporate terrorism" whistleblowers face for speaking out. Navy Commander David Fravor detailed his encounter with a massive "Tic Tac" object displaying impossible technological capabilities during a 2004 training mission. Former Navy pilot Ryan Graves advocated for the 95% of pilots who see something but report nothing, fearing career suicide for simply telling the truth.

What makes these hearings truly remarkable is their bipartisan nature. Representatives from across the political spectrum expressed unified outrage at the Pentagon's pattern of concealing information not just from the public, but from Congress itself. The testimony revealed sensitive UAP documents being unnecessarily classified, witnesses being intimidated, and a systematic effort to keep these phenomena hidden from proper oversight.

These hearings aren't just about strange lights in the sky – they're about government accountability, national security, and airspace safety. When multiple military witnesses testify under oath about objects with capabilities far beyond any known human technology regularly penetrating restricted airspace around nuclear installations, it demands serious attention. The question now isn't whether something extraordinary is happening in our skies, but rather why certain elements within our government have worked so desperately to keep it hidden.

Looking for more? Our next episode will tackle the even more explosive 2024 hearings potentially the mysterious "Immaculate Constellation" document that the Pentagon tried to deny existed. Subscribe or follow us now and join us as we continue untangling the biggest story in human history – one government hearing at a time.

Transcript

Travis 0:04

aliens yes but maybe no. Welcome to the show. Aliens, yes, but maybe no with josh and travis. I'm travis and I'm josh. This is an otherworldly podcast, as ambiguous as our title. So welcome back, josh. Thank you, I mean, I'll welcome myself into your lovely home are you trying to get me to welcome you?

Josh 0:38

yes, I didn't welcome you. I was welcome to my home, lean on that pretty hard.

Travis 0:41

Thank you for following the cues. Yeah, it's been two weeks since our last record. We had to take two weeks off because the last one was so heated. Yeah, it's been a while.

Josh 0:51

Yeah, it has, and we talked about the hollow moon.

Travis 0:53

Yes, we did.

Josh 0:54

You were the sweetest I've ever seen you.

Travis 0:57

Thank you for saying that, but I would disagree. That was probably the most heated I've been on this podcast to date. I still feel worked up, still feel pretty triggered about it.

Josh 1:07

I forgot about it completely.

Travis 1:08

Very cool, as you want to do, classic Josh. Yep Easy going Easy cheesy lemon squeezy.

Josh 1:15

So the hollow moon, we talked about that. We both agreed that it is hollow, it is a spaceship, All right, all right.

Travis 1:22

You're ramping me up, man Sweating. We did not agree. I think we had very dichotomous takes on that.

Josh 1:31

That's true. At the end of it, though, we did a test, yeah.

Travis 1:35

As we do. One thing I do remember we're moving on past Halloween, right, right, okay.

Josh 1:40

At the end of each episode we do a baseline quiz for our next episode, just because we don't really know what we're going to talk about.

Travis 1:46

Yeah, that's kind of what keeps the show exciting for us. Yes, is not knowing what we're going to be covering on the next episode until we get the quiz. Yes, by our anonymous researcher whose name rhymes with Borden Gordon Torden, maybe Fjorden, yep, our researcher. Fjorden, yep, our researcher. Fjorden From Norway, yep From the North.

Josh 2:05

Yep, there's actually a race of Nordic aliens, just so you know.

Travis 2:09

Okay, are you introducing a new theme?

Josh 2:11

No, no, I'm just saying our researcher might actually be an alien, okay.

Travis 2:15

Well, she's doing a very good job, she is.

Josh 2:18

Yeah, so this last baseline quiz, it was about the congressional hearings that's been going on since 2022.

Travis 2:28

There was one question that made you laugh. Yeah, I thought it was so funny. And turns out, the funny answer was the right one.

Josh 2:34

Yeah, the immaculate conception.

Travis 2:36

That's what I thought the joke was was that it was so close to immaculate conception.

Josh 2:41

Yes, what's it actually called? I forget.

Travis 2:44

Constellation. That's what it was Immaculate Constellation.

Josh 2:47

Yeah, oh boy, I've been really interested in that and our researcher has forbade me from learning anything about it because we are going to end up doing an episode on it by itself because it's such a big thing. Okay, that was part of the baseline quiz for this episode. It's a document that the government said did not exist, and then documents came out and it does exist. So they caught the Pentagon lying about something really big. We are not going to be talking about the congressional hearing that the Immaculate Constellation was in.

Travis 3:20

What else aren't we going to be talking about today? Let's just start listing those things.

Josh 3:23

Yeah, the rash on my back that I've been showing many people.

Travis 3:29

That was uncalled for, Josh. No, we're not going to talk about it. I just did a spit take.

Josh 3:35

Yeah, we're not going to talk about it, so now, my coffee is off limits.

Travis 3:38

Do you want to see it?

Josh 3:39

No, so what we're going to talk about is mainly the 2023 congressional hearing.

Travis 3:46

Okay, so you had said there was one in 2022.

Josh 3:48

There was one, okay, and that one was historic.

Travis 3:52

Same players in that one or different, different. Okay.

Josh 3:56

So the 2022 House Intelligence, counterterrorism, counterintelligence and Counterproliferation Subcommittee hearing it's a mouthful that happened on May 17th 2022. And it was the first public hearing on UFOs since 1966. And that hearing, I believe, was to end Project Blue Book, which was the project and the organization that was researching since Roswell. Basically, okay, right, right. The primary focus for this hearing was to address concerns about uaps as a potential threat to national security. So it's kind of just like okay, we're here, these things are happening, basically to start the ball rolling, to get the ball started to roll the ball well, and it's like like just fixated on one word yes, just get it out.

Josh 4:47

Balls. Good, but yeah, they're just trying to get the ball rolling and it worked because we ended up having another hearing and then another.

Travis 4:56

More information coming for future podcasts. We'll probably talk about the most recent one once we've had time to, and the 2024 one.

Josh 5:04

We're going to do it.

Travis 5:04

the next episode, oh damn Spoiler for the quiz. There is no quiz. Oh no, I mean, yay, it's good for me, you get to finally leave this podcast on a high note. Yeah, so let's back up before we get into this. Let's talk about some of the big players that are in the 2022 hearings.

Josh 5:21

It was the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence and Security, Ronald S Moultrie, and the Pentagon's top intelligence official and Deputy Director of Naval Intelligence, Scott Bray.

Travis 5:33

Those were the witnesses called to testify in the 2022 hearings.

Josh 5:37

Right and the key takeaways included a significant increase in the reported UAP sightings, growing to approximately 400 from the previous year. The Pentagon's commitment to investigating the the reported UAP sightings growing to approximately 400 from the previous year. The Pentagon's commitment to investigating the origins of UAPs there's no evidence to suggest extraterrestrial origin. At least 11 near misses between UAPs and US aircrafts had happened. The need for a standardized process for civilian reporting of UAP sightings. And the hearing was also followed by a closed classified session, which I would love to have been a part of.

Travis 6:10

So reading from this Wikipedia page, from this hearing, it said that Scott Bray had stated that the number of frequent and continuing reported sightings had grown to about 400 since last year's mandated report, which we just talked about. He also cast out the notion that the UFOs had extraterrestrial origins, testifying that no organic, inorganic material or unexplainable wreckage indicated. So so that is in pretty stark contrast with what the 2023 hearings brought us. Right, yeah, big, because Mr Grush had said that they did find non-human life forms within these downed craft. Right, yeah, he used the word biologics. He said biologics because he also went and asked point blank why he's saying it's not extraterrestrial but non-human, and he's like, well, because that's what we know. We don't know them to be extraterrestrial, we just know them to be non-human. Right, but he did say biologics quite a bit.

Josh 7:05

Yeah, he was, as he should, be very careful with his words. So that's kind of what this first subcommittee hearing was about. It kind of just introduced the idea it was groundbreaking and historical just because it hadn't happened since 1966, but it was a big, freaking deal. I mean, it's almost 60 years, yeah, since the last hearing. Yeah, yeah, that's incredible.

Travis 7:25

So in that hearing, lawmakers were shown declassified images and footages of UFOs, including a video of a UFO observed by a Navy fighter pilot in 2021. This is again the 2022 hearings. Yeah, a spherical object that quickly passes by the cockpit of the aircraft. Another video captured triangular objects, speculated to be drones, floating off the coast, as seen through night vision goggles. So I mean, this is all pretty interesting stuff they have actually had collisions in South America?

Josh 7:50

We haven't. I mean, we may have had collisions, I don't know. But these guys are talking about near misses. But there have been collisions in the world and that's scary. You know, it's a safety issue and that's what a lot of these pilots are coming forward about. You know, they're like this is scary, there's not supposed to be something there and there is, and they're getting close to us and we can't do anything about it. So I think that's why they brought up the near misses is like this is important, like if there's near misses, there's going to be a hit at some point. Yeah, but you were saying there have been hits. There have been hits, but not in the US that we know of, but around the rest of the world Fatal. I can't disclose that information. Oh boy.

Travis 8:28

No, I don't know, you'll release it in a skiff.

Josh 8:30

Yeah.

Travis 8:31

Another interesting thing is that this hearing in 2022 versus the one in 2023 was only 90 minutes, less than 90 minutes long the public portion of it, and what we saw was like almost two and a half hours. Yeah, from start to end.

Josh 8:45

It was riveting, at least for me. Was it for you?

Travis 8:54

It was interesting. There are parts of it that I feel like I could identify which reps really were taking it seriously and which ones were just there to be folksy and try to be charming. So I felt like some of them were taking it very seriously and some were just there to grandstand a little bit.

Josh 9:05

Yeah.

Travis 9:06

To me they were very easily identified.

Josh 9:09

And I think possibly they didn't know what they were getting into.

Travis 9:12

This is all. This is not like an assignment. This is something that was volunteer.

Travis 9:16

I felt like the people that wanted to be there liked the idea of being involved in something clandestine or secretive, and that's why they got into government was to find out these juicy secrets and any research that was done by their aides, cause I'm sure that these people didn't do any of their own research. They have aides. Yeah, one of the reps that had called this committee or was interested in it at the end thanked his researchers which was kind of nice.

Josh 9:42

I didn't really get that. That was cool, was that Garcia?

Travis 9:50

bullshit.

Josh 9:51

Uh, tim burchett okay, like you said, it was short, but they did have a classified session afterwards. We have no idea how long that goes.

Travis 9:59

I'm sure there was one after 2023. There was a lot of talk about having meeting outside of the formality of this public hearing. Right, and did you notice who was in the audience? Who's in the auditorium? How could could I not? Yeah, george Knapp, I think he was called out. And Jeremy Korbel? Yeah, oh yeah, I could identify him just from the back of his head.

Josh 10:21

He was the only one not wearing a suit, yeah, which on Instagram, a lot of people were giving him flack for Like. Do you have no respect for the process? I don't know.

Travis 10:29

Stupid. The watch he was wearing was probably worth more than two of their suits combined. Yeah, he wore enough. Yeah, it's fine. Like you can show up. That's a public hearing. Yeah, I'm okay with it. A tie is, I think, a false idea of what formality should look like. Like a tie is a very Western culture, affectation you'd wear with your clothes. Like it does not designate how serious you're taking it.

Travis 10:54

It's just a standard that is that we've set up in the Western world. To you know, designate formality. But if you look anywhere else, nobody else wears a tie, Not like this.

Josh 11:00

Okay, so the 2023 house oversight and accountability subcommittee hearing. Here we go. So there's different subcommittees. The first one was that long house intelligence counterterrorism law. This one is the house oversight and accountability subcommittee hearings.

Travis 11:15

So what they're looking at here is like funding and the allocation of funds. That's like what falls under oversight or things that are maybe not looked at too deeply. Right, this is. This was part of a bigger hearing, not just about UAPs.

Josh 11:28

It was about. What are our steps? What are we going to do? Like the first one, we know the problem. Now, what do we need to put into place, what do we need to stop or what do we need to look into to make things better? So July 26, 2023, the US House Committee on Oversight and Accountability held a significant hearing titled Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Implications on National Security, Public Safety and government transparency. And they really nailed home the transparency thing. So this session aimed to explore the potential threats posed by the unidentified aerial phenomena, or UAPs, and assesses the government's transparency regarding these incidences. So do you want to talk about the witnesses that came forward?

Travis 12:10

Yeah, I've got a couple things. You have them ranked.

Josh 12:14

You have your own personal rank of who you like best.

Travis 12:18

I did. I ranked them, but you like them all. I felt like these witness testimonies were the most compelling part of these hearings. Like I said earlier, I felt like some reps did not do enough of checking of boxes and it looked like a lot of them just showed up and barely read their statements or their questions and you could tell by the way they were asking the questions. Like one rep was like getting to a point and then he stops and then just says occam's razor and then continues on without explaining what he was trying to get at. He just said occam's razor as like uh, I'm not going to explain to you what I think it is. Maybe I don't understand what it is. My aides wrote it down. You know aides, they're always just adding in their own voice.

Josh 13:01

Yeah, I remember you telling me about that. I didn't remember that moment, but from how you explained it it sounded as though he said it kind of like a transition, but it just didn't make any sense.

Travis 13:09

I think he wanted to go somewhere with it, but then he didn't understand. And that's the point I was trying to make is, I don't think he read through his own personal dossier that was given to him by his aides. I think that he had opened it up right before walking in, read through parts of it, tried to understand it as best he could and then, without reading it, he had just mentioned a couple of things that he remembered. When he realized that he'd made a mistake, he just tried to move on. Yeah, so that's, that's frustrating. So I think the weakest point of this was some of the questioning. But there were some real standouts, I feel like, in this, but let's, let's just talk about the three witnesses. So yeah, grush, fravor and Graves saying it is that one name.

Travis 13:47

Grush, fravor and Graves, and saying it in that sequence it sounds like the farm villains from the Fantastic Mr Fox to me, but, like I said, they were the most compelling piece of evidence. Usually I'm of the thinking that eyewitness accounts are. We talked about memory a lot on the show. They are subject to memory. But Fravor, the commander that was cited as witnessing the Tic Tac event what I really liked was that he had said towards his closing arguments witnesses need to stop treating these as like a big fish story. And we talked about this with like the game of telephone, how a story gets bigger and bigger the more you tell it. And he said write your information down and stick to that information that you have. Don't try to make it bigger than it is. Yeah, and I found that absolutely in line with how I feel about eyewitness testimony.

Josh 14:37

I thought of you when he was talking about that Aw.

Travis 14:40

Yeah, that was Commander David Fravor. As far as rankings go, he's my number two.

Josh 14:44

He's a retired Navy commander and former commanding officer of the Black Aces Squadron. Yeah, he's renowned for his 2004 encounter with the UAP, often referred to as the Tic Tac incident. We did an episode about UAP encounters that have actual footage from the government.

Travis 15:00

And he said something about the propulsion system that we see here, right, like we use combustible engines, things that burn through fuel, and that's what propels them forward, and also that most ways we navigate through the air requires us to have wings right. So what is that Bernoulli's principle that the air flies over and then off, gives lift, these things that he identified as giant Tic Tacs? And that was another funny thing is that some of the reps and again this is a fault of our representatives they kept calling it Tic Tacs and they kept saying Tic Tac. And then Burchette said I said Tic Tac, I don't mean the communist Chinese app, and I was like that's, oh yeah, shut up, like, like, shut up, that's. That's you aligning yourself politically with what's going on.

Josh 15:43

And then he made a joke about his daughter calling him a boomer. And then he said happy anniversary to his wife.

Travis 15:49

Yeah, it was just like what the hell is going on Like. What are you why? Yeah, it was just like what the hell is going on Like. What are you doing?

Josh 15:54

Yeah, no one is here for this right now.

Travis 15:55

We're here to get some serious information.

Josh 15:58

Yeah, some of these people have been working for decades to get this to happen.

Travis 16:01

He kept saying gold, darn it. It was political grandstanding, so I found that pretty frustrating. Anyway, what Fravor had said that I think was pretty cool is that these UAPs that he had spotted and had nicknamed Tic Tacs- yeah. He's like basically, think of a giant propane cylinder flying through the air. That's what it looks like, and that was again in reference to one of the reps calling it Tic Tac. Again, he's like nope, think of it as like a giant propane cylinder, like a Tic Tac.

Josh 16:28

With no propulsion.

Travis 16:29

That they could identify. Yep, there was something that's moving it forward. We just don't understand what it is.

Josh 16:34

Right Magnets. It very well could be magnets there is when they go and test the areas after a UAP sighting, there is a lot of electromagnetic interference happening.

Travis 16:45

I believe it. Earth has a very strong electromagnetic field, so maybe they've harnessed the power of magnets. Yeah, just the third greatest power on Earth After air.

Josh 16:55

So maybe they've harnessed the power of magnets. Yeah, just the third greatest power on.

Travis 16:56

Earth After Aaron Walsh. Oh no, you're listing the Captain Planet, earth's Mightiest Heroes.

Josh 17:05

Yeah, so that was Commander David Fravor. We also have David Grush, one of my favorite. He was a former intelligence officer with 14 years experience in the US Air Force.

Travis 17:17

He was the whistleblower that brought these hearings to this proceeding. He was. The reason why they're discussing this is because it was his efforts.

Josh 17:27

When I think of a whistleblower, I think of someone that found out some information like this isn't right, and then they go and whistle about it. They tell everyone this is not what he did. He filed paperwork to legally whistleblow, saying that this is an emergency.

Travis 17:43

Yep. He whistleblew within the parameters of the US military right, Like he tried to do everything above board.

Josh 17:50

And he is still and it's crazy and he still has his clearance, which is why he's so specific with his words and what he can and cannot say, because there's a lot of people trying to get his clearance taken away so that he can no longer testify.

Travis 18:02

He's a former intelligence officer.

Josh 18:04

Yeah, so he's a former intelligence officer with 14 years of experience, no longer an intelligence officer.

Josh 18:09

No, but he still has his clearance, same as Elizondo, which is bonkers. I don't understand how that works. 14 years of experience in the US Air Force and National Geospatial Intelligence Agency. Grush served as a representative on two Pentagon task force investigating UAPs. My favorite thing about him is that he was given max clearance, the highest clearance you can, and he went and interviewed 40 something people to find out everything that they know, this release on his News Nation interview that he'd been talking about all throughout.

Travis 18:40

Yes, so he told AOC, who I felt like she had her facts in line. She's like, okay, you're telling me all of this stuff, where can I find this stuff, the stuff that you've researched? Is this accessible? Is this something that we can find Like very pointed question which I really appreciate and he said now I can share with you outside of the meeting, in a less formal setting. I'm not in this public hearing. Also, I did a News Nation interview and that's where you can find some of the information.

Josh 19:08

Yeah, so he knows almost everything. But there was some people in some places he tried to go and get interviews. It just didn't happen. He got stonewalled in certain situations, as well as some of these Congress people trying to go and get information. And some of these Congress people were trying to get secret skiffs done with Grush, and they were denied. They're like no, you can't, we don't want you to find out what he knows. So I really like him. He just seems like a real standup guy, really intelligent. He has all this knowledge. It seems, though, he's systematically trying to release as much as he can without going to prison.

Travis 19:45

Yeah, he was my least favorite of the three. Not saying that that's bad, but there's got to be a bottom. He was my three. My number one was Ryan Grave.

Josh 19:52

Oh.

Travis 19:53

He was the younger member of this panel. I just liked how he was coming at this in a very like an endearing manner. When he was going through his statement, he was reading from something that he'd written, and I just found that charming.

Josh 20:08

And he's there representing a lot of people, like in the private sector as well as in the military.

Travis 20:20

He was a big advocate for having a more formal process for reporting this. So I don't know if it was Grush or Graves that said later in the hearing that it was a feeling they had Nothing that was bad, because there's no way to really validate this feeling, but they feel like only 5% of UAP sightings get reported. So that means 95% of the sightings that are out there are not reported and that's because of either intimidation or stigma, and they're trying to de-stigmatize seeing something that you might think is weird. Yeah, they want people to feel more comfortable reporting this, and that's another thing that I appreciate about these three.

Josh 20:53

Yeah, people are withholding information because they don't want to be labeled crazy because of the stigma and they don't want to lose their job or their career or their rank that they've been working for their entire lives. Their lives could be destroyed by saying a sentence Right, which is insane and it's not a bad sentence yeah, sentence, which is insane and it's not a bad sentence. So, ryan Graves he's a former US Navy pilot and he's also the executive director of Americans for Safe Aerospace. He's been really vocal about the UAP sightings and advocate for improving the reporting mechanisms for the pilots, because there's nothing in place. Like these guys, they see something. If they report it, it's to their direct superior or their bosses if it's commercial flights, and nothing happens about it, or they are deemed crazy and they lose their job.

Josh 21:37

So he's a baller for sure, and he's kind of like the little man standing up and making a big change.

Travis 21:42

But he's coming at it from a practical point of view, which is what I really appreciate, that appeal to like my sensibilities which is what I really appreciated.

Josh 21:51

That appealed to my sensibilities. His testimony mainly just highlighted the frequency of UAP encounters during training missions off the US East Coast and, just like I said, he's emphasizing the formal reporting system for safety risks. I mean, he's not out there trying to find aliens. The most important part to him isn't the technology, it's we know, it's there.

Travis 22:09

It's happening and also just being like safe. He wants his pilots to be able to fly in a safe environment, and so a way to do that is document any sort of anomalous behavior that you might see as you're out flying. You know whether that's wind, or you know inclement weather or birds, you know whatever, whatever may be the case, buildings, that kind of thing. He's approaching this from a practical standpoint.

Josh 22:32

It's very logical that if there's something there, everyone should know about it.

Travis 22:36

Yep, or if that is going to be something that you're going to encounter, we should have a system in place for reporting it and documenting where it was seen and the nature of that sighting.

Josh 22:46

Yeah, him showing up and him saying that he has like 30 people behind him, that he's representing, that all have their stories and their incidences and, like you said, he was endearing. But because of how endearing he was, it also made me kind of proud for him. It was just like, yeah, get it, man, like you're doing it. Yep, and he was. I mean it's very impressive what he's done. Fravor, I've seen him in documentaries. Right, this was by far the best anything I've seen from him. He just really talked about the Tic Tac incident and what that meant. He went through the whole thing.

Travis 23:20

At one point he was asked about the Phoenix Lights by another one of the reps that had nothing to do with this and he's like why I'm in Arizona? So what do you know about the Phoenix Lights? And he's like nothing. Man, like I know as much as you do what's out in the public discourse. Yeah, like you tell me, like what do you know about the Phoenix sites? You're a rep for Arizona, what do you know about it? And that wasn't under Fravor's purview and that's not why he was there. He wasn't there to report on the.

Travis 23:45

Phoenix sites. Part of this that was so disappointing to me was some of the representatives asking questions that don't make any sense and they're just like well, I know something about this, I'm going to ask that question Instead of doing the little bit of homework that was required of them. With the people that were there in front of them, they were just like well, I know about Phoenix Lights and Kurt Russell was involved right, that's pretty cool. What do you know about that? And he's just like I liked how they were respectful but dismissive, and they were just like. That was not why I'm here. Let's move on. Let's talk about the thing that I'm here to talk about.

Josh 24:15

Yeah, I find it interesting. So Ryan Graves, he was really focused on safety. Yep Right Commander David Fravor was really focused on technology and science.

Travis 24:28

Like that and science and science. Yeah, that's a thing that I thought was really cool.

Josh 24:32

Yeah, he was like this is far beyond anything that we have. We're getting a little bit closer but we're not anywhere near it. But this TikTok video that he was a part of that was in 2004. We didn't even have iPhones then, yeah. So he's been on this big crusade letting people know that this happened. This is real. This technology could potentially be a national security threat If one of our enemies or another country gets this stuff. If they can just show up and dip out instantly and we can't do anything about it. That's scary. So if this technology exists, we need to know and understand it. So that was kind of cool. I really liked when he was explaining the whole day basically what happened. Someone asked well, what did your commanding officer say? And he's like I was the commanding officer. He's like there's nothing I could say yeah, I didn't know what was going on. I love that. So he was the big cheese in that situation. And now he's showing up saying like, yeah, this is all real, yeah. And now he's showing up saying like, yeah, this is all real, yeah.

Josh 25:29

And then David Grush he testified about the multi-decade UAP crash retrieval and reversal engineering program that he was informed of during his duties. So he claimed that the US government has been aware of non-human activity since the 1930s and alleged the recovery of a non-human biologics from crash sites. So this guy knows all the info. He can't talk about much, which was very underwhelming, but he was able to say enough that was very intriguing. But from his research and his knowledge, there is non-biologic retrieval programs with the Pentagon and he also mentioned that there is a disinformation program that exists. He was focusing on the whistleblowers. He's standing up for those guys and he's doing what a lot of people can't, and he's doing it the correct way, because he mentioned multiple times that he was not treated well. He used the word corporate terrorism, where they would threaten him with removing his rank or his clearance, and he said that would happen on the professional level, but he also was threatened on his personal level.

Travis 26:36

Corporate terrorism was a term that he gave it. That's not necessarily what he was experiencing. That's just how he defined it right. Corporate terrorism could mean a number of different things, but that's just how he felt he was being treated.

Josh 26:48

Yeah, he was basically being powered into and strong-armed.

Travis 26:52

Through a lot of different means, like gaslighting is one of them. You know where they tell you what you saw is wrong or it's not true, or whatever. You know a lot of whistleblowers, not just here but across the spectrum of blowing whistles. They all experience that.

Josh 27:07

Yeah.

Travis 27:08

Whether it's, you know, misogyny in the workplace. Even in cases of rape or molestation, those are thrown around. Like you didn't experience what you think you experienced, You're wrong.

Josh 27:20

Yeah.

Travis 27:21

So it's usually the oppressor or the person perpetrating these crimes or trying to hide it that uses the gaslighting.

Josh 27:29

Yeah, and it sounded, though, because they asked him some follow-up questions about some of the things that happened, and he said that he wasn't able to talk about it because they have an ongoing case against the people that have done that and he doesn't want to give them any kind of ammunition Right. And they also followed up with have you known anyone that has been hurt or? And they even eventually asked anyone been murdered? And he known anyone that has been hurt or, and they even eventually asked anyone been murdered and he said I, I can't I can't, I can't talk about that, yeah and that could mean a number of different things.

Travis 27:56

That could mean that he knows and can't talk about it, or it's something outside of his realm of knowledge, like he's not gonna make a blanket statement, say like yeah, people were murdered or no, people weren't murdered I mean naturally.

Josh 28:07

I want to just assume whenever he says I can't talk about it, it means the answer is yes, like in anything, like are there aliens? It's like I can't talk about that.

Travis 28:16

It's like he means yes, Are they human that you saw or no? And they're like I can't say that. I will say they were non-human. Well, why are you saying non-human instead of extraterrestrial?

Josh 28:36

It's like, because that's the information that I have and that's as much as I can say about it. Yeah, some of the key takeaways from this, I think government transparency. I mean they mentioned multiple times the witnesses as well as the committee. Yeah, no one has trust in the government right now, for good reason. But hearing the underscored bipartisan concerns about the lack of transparency from the military and the intelligence agencies regarding UAPs, the lawmakers expressed frustration over the overclassification and the withholding of information from Congress and public. There was also a takeaway of national security implications.

Josh 29:05

So the witnesses and lawmakers discussed the potential national security risks posed by the UAPs, especially given their proximity to the military installations and critical infrastructure. Like we've seen the jellyfish one that's just cruising through a black site. Yeah, and then recently there's been a lot of hive-like behavior of UAPs around military stuff and all through history they're very interested in military bases or nuclear sites, which is spooky. Yeah, there needs to be a need for a comprehensive understanding of these phenomena was emphasized to ensure airspace safety. And then there's a huge call for further investigation. The testimonies highlighted the necessity for continued investigation into UAPs and advocating for the establishment of a formal reporting mechanism and a greater government transparency to address public concerns and potential threats. So two thumbs up. It was good. Yeah, it was good. It was nice to get this information and it's through the right channels and it is on public record, like that is really important. And it is nice about the bipartisanship. This isn't about all these things that everyone disagrees about. This is about humanity safety.

Travis 30:15

What it should definitely be about. Yeah, but again, we saw with these hearings and it was from the people that were saying that it should be bipartisan that I felt were the most partisan, and you can tell.

Josh 30:26

You definitely could tell they were thrown in little jabs here and there about things that had nothing to do with the hearing.

Josh 30:32

Yeah. So the congressional hearing on UAPs is a huge shift in the government's approach to this topic. I recently saw an article that there was some lights, some weird funky lights, happening in Oregon and four different pilots reported them and they even call. There's a audio clip from air traffic control and he's saying just avoid the UFO and just maintain your own thing. So obviously the stigma is going away because it's becoming a little more prominent. These pilots were not afraid of reporting something weird and suspicious and odd and it's just. It's exciting that it's working. I mean, I think that gets us one step closer to the big goal of the big goal.

Travis 31:17

I kind of know where you're going with this, but good, I didn't even know where I was going.

Josh 31:20

Oh, okay, I'm glad you interrupted me, cause I had nothing to say after that.

Travis 31:24

Well, what do you think the big goal is here? What is the point of these hearings? Do you? What do you think?

Josh 31:29

I think the point is to have an understanding of what's going on and to have the pentagon held accountable for hiding things, and I think they do need to declassify things. They mentioned that a couple of times is like there needs to be term limits on some of these images where it no longer poses a threat, and they're saying maybe 15 years. Does that sound good? Yeah, there should be. They should release images, but no one's in charge of the Pentagon. That's the thing. And that actually gets into the third one.

Josh 32:00

Oh, secretary of defense, the third hearing I watched a little bit of it is so good. Yeah, a lot of the representatives are not joking anymore, they're just pissed, and I think what happened is all these people went into these skiffs, learned a lot more information that we're not supposed to know, and they are livid. They now have new documentation and new witnesses coming forward with a lot more information and they are not having it and they are out for blood. And it is a whole different energy in the room. Okay, so it is a whole different energy in the room.

Josh 32:30

Okay, so it is very exciting but I think that's the big goal is to hold the Pentagon accountable, because they're doing whatever they want and it doesn't matter, and no one can tell them not to, basically, and they're withholding things from the public, they're withholding things from the Congress, and we all want answers, yeah, and so I think that's the big thing we want the answers, I want answers, I do too, and it seems as though, by how they're acting, that they have them.

Travis 32:58

Who? The government, because the government the military. Okay, well, yeah, yep, that's the problem, damn.

Josh 33:03

That concludes this one. I'm excited. Basically, we're going to do a part two with this.

Travis 33:08

Not covering 2022, right, Because fuck you 2022. That whole year was garbage.

Josh 33:13

Yeah, there was a couple of years that were garbage there, but 2022, we were like abuse victims getting out of an abusive relationship, trying to get out of an abusive relationship, and we were trying to reintegrate into society.

Travis 33:26

We're grabbing our shoes and coat, trying to run out the door, and then they're like oh guess what into society. We're grabbing our shoes and coat, trying to run out the door, and then they're like oh guess what Aliens exist and we're like the fuck, I don't, yeah, why?

Josh 33:34

now, because they made us become all alcoholics. And then they're like, oh yeah, and aliens exist. Yeah, that's the big plan. Get us drunk Worked, yeah. So I'm curious on what other? This is a big hearing. We weren't able to cover every single topic, but yeah, if you guys want to message us, let your friends know about us so that they can learn, yep. If they don't want to hear you talk about it, yeah. Or if you're a broken record.

Josh 33:59

Yeah, this is a niche podcast, I understand that, but you know it's also kind of fun if you're interested in like dipping your toe into the otherworldly yeah, and if you're a fan, if you want a soft way to introduce people into this category, I would imagine this podcast is a little softer than most.

Travis 34:16

Yes, a hundred percent. It's designed that way it is yeah, tell your friends.

Josh 34:21

And next episode we're going to be talking about 2024, hearing the one that happened with the immaculate consolation oh boy, yeah. And then, like I said, our researcher, jordan, my wife, has made it, so I cannot research anything about that, but she said it is batshit and she gets excited in front of me about it and I can't do anything about it and I am mad. She's disabled your Google. Yeah, well, I have to honor our vows. Okay, that was in our vows.

Travis 34:49

I can't research aliens without. Without her express consent.

Josh 34:52

Yeah, well, cool Well, thank you for listening, guys this is a ride.

Travis 34:57

Yeah, this has been fun. Do we do any special thanks at the end of this? Anybody, we need to acknowledge your wife, maybe For doing most of the heavy lifting. Yeah, being our a researcher, my wife did the research.

Josh 35:12

Our theme song yes, so our wife I mean my wife, she's not our wife, our wife, my wife, jordan, is phenomenal. She is a producer of podcasts and she helped with giving us a leg up giving us a leg up, guiding us through this leg up, guiding us through this whole process, and we wouldn't be half of what we are without her in this adventure of ours with this podcast, correct. So thank you, jordan, for everything you do and thank you listeners for listening. Yeah, thank you.

Travis 35:45

All right, okay, bye, okay, bye.