Aliens? Yes! But Maybe No

2024 Congressional UAP Hearing

• Aliens? Yes! But Maybe No • Episode 14

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The veil of secrecy surrounding Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena is starting to crack. In this eye-opening analysis of the 2024 Congressional UAP hearing, we dive deep into explosive testimony revealing decades of government concealment and deliberate information suppression.

When four expert witnesses step forward—including former Pentagon insider Luis Elizondo declaring "UAPs are real" and journalist Michael Shellenberger exposing the classified "Immaculate Consolation" program—the truth about recovered non-human technology becomes impossible to ignore. The hearing reveals a disturbing pattern: emails mysteriously vanishing, witnesses facing intimidation, and Congress deliberately kept in the dark about programs funded by taxpayer dollars.

What makes this hearing particularly significant is the growing frustration among elected officials who find themselves stonewalled at every turn. As Representative Mace pointedly challenged: if these secret programs exist, Congress deserves oversight; if they don't exist, why are we potentially funding them? Meanwhile, our military personnel face genuine safety threats from these encounters, yet protocols and reporting systems remain inadequate.

The most chilling revelation? That communication with these phenomena may already be occurring—not through words, but through military encounters that serve as a form of dialogue. As Elizondo explains, when F-18s are scrambled in response to incursions, that itself is communication; when UAPs hover over sensitive installations, they're sending a message we've yet to fully comprehend.

Join us as we untangle this web of secrecy, exploring what these revelations mean for national security, scientific advancement, and the public's right to know. Subscribe now and prepare for our next episode, where we'll examine the classified Immaculate Consolation document that government officials were warned never to mention by name.

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Josh:

Aliens Aliens, yes.

Travis:

But maybe no. Welcome to the show. Aliens, yes, but maybe no. I'm Travis. I'm Travis. I'm Josh. This is an otherworldly podcast, as ambiguous as our title. So last week we talked about the UAP hearing, covered off on some pretty big news that happened in 2023.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

Right, that's how you say it 2023. 2023, baby, yeah it.

Josh:

Yeah, it was groundbreaking Lots of really good information that we got out of that.

Travis:

Yep, we ranked our people, our witnesses.

Josh:

Yeah, we learned that some of the Congress people are upset that they're not being involved in some of these military decisions, and we also learned that some people didn't care.

Travis:

Yeah, it seemed as though they didn't care. You could really tell with, like, some of their statements. It seemed like this was the first time they had read those statements, so you could tell they were clearly written by an aide, yes, or maybe they'd put it together. And then they're like okay, my duty to this, the amount of work I want to put into this, is done, it's been satisfied. I'm going to put it. This is done, it's been satisfied, I'm going to move on. And then they never looked at it again until the hearing.

Josh:

Right.

Travis:

Because some really struggled with just reading their statement. And these are. They're not like us.

Josh:

You know these are professionals, or?

Travis:

regular people. These are like Congress people who?

Josh:

these are the people that are running the country.

Travis:

Yep, yep, yep. Pretty disappointing. That's what I'm finding out with a lot of these hearings. Like the people that run this country are very disappointing.

Josh:

Yeah, it's surprising.

Travis:

Yeah, we elect them, we do, and that is also disappointing. It's like a what's it called An Ouroboros, a snake eating its own tail, like we just keep fucking ourselves over. Yeah, yeah.

Josh:

So that was 2023, 2023. Yeah, so this episode we're going to talk about 2024. Correct, 2024. Yeah, in colloquial terms so the 2024 hearing of unidentified anomalous phenomenon exposing the truth.

Travis:

Okay, yeah, what was the committee that was putting this on? It was a.

Josh:

It was a subcommittee.

Travis:

It was a very lengthy.

Josh:

It was a joint, which means a together.

Travis:

So I'm just going to call it a together committee. Okay, that sounds happier. Yeah, there's a show called steven universe and they have this thing called together breakfast, which is I think it's so endearing. It's just like everybody comes together to make a breakfast so you get like waffles and pancakes and eggs and it's all just piled on. It's a lot of.

Josh:

And I want that same endearingness to be with this a together hearing. So it was two subcommittees coming together the Subcommittee on Cybersecurity, information Technology and Government Innovation yeah, that's one of them and the Subcommittee on National Security, the Border and Foreign Affairs.

Travis:

And this is like what a portion of one long hearing that they had. Is that? Is that correct? Like are these people, like Mace, sitting in a room and having witnesses come in and out all day, because this is not a border security issue that I could suss out?

Josh:

The witnesses were all there. We had four witnesses. They stayed in the room the whole time.

Travis:

I'm just saying were there hearings before and then are there hearings after? Do you know, or do they have this hearing? And then this is it.

Josh:

I don't know. I'm sure there's other hearings about national security. You know, I'm sure that's happening all the time.

Travis:

Okay, so, you think that maybe we're just seeing a portion of this as it pertains to To UAP?

Josh:

Yeah, yeah, this is the UAP hearings.

Travis:

It's not even three. It's not even in the title.

Josh:

No, it's not. But there's no place for UAPs in the government, so they have to wiggle their way in on some other committees just in our hearts. Yeah, together, yeah. So the testimony from key witnesses regarding unidentified anomalous, because it's not aerial, it's both.

Travis:

They're talking about submerged well and like an anomaly is like an unchecked, like an unfactored kind of situation. Yeah, I don't know how to describe it, like an anomaly is something that that happens. That is kind of it's bizarre.

Josh:

And yeah, there we go. Bizarre, yep, yeah. So a lot of times when I say UAP, I say unidentified aerial phenomenon.

Travis:

They made a clear distinction in this here.

Josh:

Yeah, it is anomalous because these phenomenons are not just aerial, they are submerged as well. So the witnesses we have and I'm sure there's a ranking with these witnesses- Nobody ever says weird things that happen on land, right? I think those do exist.

Travis:

I don't know what they're called, but they do, I mean, so this would fall under that category, though, instead of making it more specific, anomalous makes it now more broad, right yeah, yeah, it covers everything.

Josh:

Yeah, so we have our witnesses. We're gonna do kill mary, fuck.

Travis:

No, I'm kidding well, it's the fourth one. There's four high five he's just a. Watch it astragalus he's just watching kill mary, fuck watch yeah, so our four guys retired.

Josh:

Rear admiral tim gallaudet. Yeah, he served in the us navy and retired as the commander of the navy meteorology and oceanography command. He is currently the chief executive officer at Ocean STL Consulting.

Travis:

Okay, then there's Lou Elizondo our boy Lou, wearing a very sensible collar. This time, yeah, versus the last time we saw him. He had a big collar. He had a big collar. He's like a stocky guy, and wearing a tall collar just makes it look like you don't have a neck.

Josh:

Like the guy from 90 Day Fiance.

Travis:

Oh man yeah.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

The guy that just goes shoulder to head.

Josh:

So Lou is a former Department of Defense official who managed a special access program concerning UAPs on behalf of the White House and the National Security Council.

Travis:

There's a little bit of contention about his work history. He claims to be part of the site, clandestine part of the Pentagon, and nobody in the Pentagon recognizes what he's done or that department. So I just wanted to get that.

Josh:

Which is not a new thing.

Travis:

Well.

Josh:

I mean, we talked about this early on.

Travis:

You know there's a lot of character assassination that happens in this community, which kind of adds to that feeling of them all being paranoid freaks. That's right. Call back to our earlier episodes. Yep, I'm going to pull up Lou Elizondo's wiki and read a little bit from that.

Josh:

Well, we did a wiki on Bob Lazar and it was very mean, very rude. And we also heard from this last hearing, the 2023 hearing, that there are people that are spreading misinformation. Yep.

Travis:

Okay, so the opening paragraph of his Wikipedia page. Luis Elizondo is a media personality and author formerly employed by United States Army Counterintelligence and the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence. According to Elizondo, he was director of the now defunct Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, or AATIP, which was associated with the now defunct Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, or AATIP, which was associated with the Pentagon UFO videos. Elisande's statements about his Pentagon role with AATIP have been contested by Pentagon officials. Since 2017, he has claimed there was a government conspiracy to suppress evidence that UFOs are of extraterrestrial origin. Okay, so just brief history. He talked about that a little bit in this hearing. Yep, brief history. He talked about that a little bit in this hearing.

Josh:

Yep and AATIP was disbanded and AERO has taken its place as the organization inside the Pentagon that is doing the UAP research. He is also the author of the bestselling book on the subjects of UAPs.

Travis:

Good for him. Yeah, it's got like an exclamation point in the title. It's like danger, does it? I don't know? Oh, it's like danger, does it, I don't know? Oh, it's inside the pentagon's hunt for ufos imminent. Okay, it's the title imminent. That's a good word.

Josh:

Yeah. So the third witness, michael schellenberger. He's an author and a journalist who founded, public a newsletter which recently published a piece about a purported special access program that witnesses refer to as immaculate consolation.

Travis:

Oh, are we even allowed to say that I? I've heard no Quoting Rep Mace. Come at me, bro, now like yeah.

Josh:

So, mace, in the introduction of this hearing she said that she was told that she would be put on a list if she said the words immaculate consolation. Yeah, so it means that we now are on a list with her.

Travis:

Okay, you okay with that? I mean I was, yeah, I'm okay with that. I guess I don't know, like, what does that even mean? We're on a list, okay, fine, I don't know, what does that do?

Josh:

Does that mean I?

Travis:

can't like get on an plane, probably just like a watch list. Sure you know they're gonna be listening now a little more intently. Well, we haven't released anything yet as of.

Josh:

Oh, they know as I know they know, as time of this, recording this episode and us saying it has not been released I've been raided before we even started this podcast, so they know, they're aware of what our potential is what our reach is.

Travis:

You had thought crimes that that's exactly it. It was thought crime.

Josh:

Yep. So that was Michael Schellenberger, the author and journalist. And then, lastly, we have Michael Gold. He's a former NASA official who served on the NASA UAP independent study team, and he is currently the chief growth officer at Redwire Space.

Travis:

What does that mean? Marketing Headhunting?

Josh:

Recruiting. I officer at red wire space. What does that mean? Marketing, headhunting, recruiting, I would imagine. Funding growth, growth. I feel like that's one of those words.

Travis:

If you say a lot, it just sounds gross yeah, it sounds like you're saying it gross with the lisp growth.

Josh:

Yeah, that's really growth yeah, I would imagine he's trying to grow the category, the idea, the knowledge and the funding if I can just get you to say growth two more times, that'd be great. Not gonna be it. Yeah, because he talked about a few times in his responses that he is all for some of these projects that are having difficulty being funded. Yeah, so I think that if it's not part of his job, it is something he's definitely passionate about is the lack of funding when it comes to so is that a?

Travis:

private sector job. It's not part of the government and it seems like Lou Elizondo has also gone into private sector, but he still has security clearance, which he talked a little bit about in his opening statement.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

He was asked like well, is there a threat? Do you guys feel threatened? They pose it as like a career threat and he's like well, yeah, there's us coming out that poses a career threat, a personal threat and a threat to our security clearances.

Josh:

Yeah, that you've worked your entire life to get, and also now their life is dependent on these security clearances because they need that to be able to further help their cause, which is getting some of this stuff answered. So these are the guys. Who's your number one? Who are you taking?

Travis:

home? I like Lou. I think he was my favorite. Who's your number one? Who are you taking home? I like Lou. I think he was my favorite. He's very charismatic. You can tell that he's been a part of this for a long time. So his statements were very clean and to the point. His responses were appropriately condescending to some of the reps. Yeah, that's why he's my number one. I don't really remember much of the other folks. I remember when Elizondo walked in he got an applause.

Josh:

He's kind of a celebrity. He's a celebrity yeah.

Travis:

Like our boy Jeremy, who was there also. He was standing around in the back. He's in the audience, our documentarian. Did you see him? Did you spot him?

Josh:

Oh yeah, I did. Yeah, did you see the tattoo man? Who do you think that could be the tattoo man? There's someone that had a lot of tattoos Like a JJ Abrams or a David Lynch character Blink-182.

Travis:

Oh, tom DeLonge, I didn't see him.

Josh:

Yeah, he was there when he was in front row in the stands. He was just right there, oh.

Travis:

I missed him. Yeah, the stands. He was just right there. I missed him, yeah, but like lou, is this guy right. So of course, if lou was there, I should have expected to see tom de long, but no, I didn't see him. I'll have to re-watch it just just for that yeah, I would say lou's my number one.

Josh:

I didn't like michael gold, the guy from nasa. At first, yeah, and then I did okay, he was very. I want to talk about science. You guys have data. Science relies on data. Yeah, give us the data.

Travis:

That's how I felt about the guy from last week, Graves. And he was there too, I didn't, yeah, graves, and so was Grush.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

But I didn't like Graves at the beginning, but then he became my number one.

Josh:

Yeah, I liked how Michael Gold said you know what we're capturing these UAPs with are not what should be capturing UAPs. We're using cockpit cameras.

Travis:

They're cockpit gun cameras.

Josh:

Yeah, he's like if we were using cockpit cameras to study black holes, we wouldn't know anything about black holes. We need to have the data so that we can create a device to be able to look at these, and everything is being withheld. Yeah, and we're not going to get any information with the stuff that we're using.

Travis:

Yeah, it's like playing darts with one eye closed. Yeah, like your perspective is going to be off.

Josh:

Yeah, you're going to be a little to the left or the right, mm. Hmm.

Travis:

Always to the left for me.

Josh:

So Michael Schellenberger, the author and journalist, I just liked how he's there to whistleblow for whistleblowers. He's not the whistleblower, but he's the middleman and he's at all costs going to protect himself. He even said he's like I will go to prison for the safety of protecting my guys.

Travis:

Yeah, yep, a journalist at heart. You know you want to protect your sources and that's what he said. Guys, yeah, yep, a journalist at heart. You know you want to protect your sources and that's what he said. This is my livelihood. I'm not going to give up my source of information for these kind of hearings.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

That that shows integrity. It does. But also it's frustrating when you're trying to get answers and they just say like I don't know, uh, you're asking. And this is a huge frustration for me.

Travis:

watching these last couple of hearings, I don't watch a lot of congressional hearings but and maybe I will going forward because it's interesting, these are our elected officials and I'm not just talking about UAPs just like any congressional hearings Maybe I'll start watching C-SPAN again or whatever, but that is what is so frustrating about our elected officials. It's not that they're having these hearings, it's that the questions they're asking are not the right questions Right that they're having these hearings. It's that the questions they're asking are not the right questions Right, or they're repeating questions and they're not phrasing it in any new or novel way. So it's just like that definition of insanity where you keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Josh:

Yeah, I did like Schellenberger. I mean, he's not an expert at all, so he's just compiling the information and then letting all these people have it. So when they ask him any questions about anything, he's just like I don't know. All I know is what's in this. I already presented you everything. I don't know, or I don't have an opinion on that. Like, do you think aliens are real? He's like I don't know. You know. He just doesn't know. He's here for a very specific purpose.

Travis:

They all are. I mean, every one of these hearings have been, and that's what I'm saying, like that's. What's frustrating is the questions that are being asked of them are like do little green men exist? And they're like I don't. There's nothing in your reading that would indicate I would know if there are little green men out there.

Josh:

Well, let's talk about some of the testimonies, some of the highlights of the testimonies. So let's start with Admiral Gallaudet's testimony and some of the highlights with that. So he was really, really pushing on the lack of transparency regarding UAPs, even at high levels of government. He described an incident that occurred in 2015, while serving as the commander of the Navy Meteorology and Oceanography Command, where he received an email regarding a safety concern involving multiple near midair collisions with unidentified objects.

Travis:

Yeah, and we've talked about this guy's testimony before right With the GoFast video.

Josh:

I believe so I don't think we talked much about this aspect where there was an email and someone was saying like hey, do you guys see this? Do you know what's going on? Do you know anything about this? And it's known as the go fast video, and then the next day the email disappeared from the account without explanation, which is weird, and they never talked about.

Travis:

no one ever talked about it again yeah, I think that's just like clandestine government type stuff, though I don't think that's too weird that things just go missing or just disappear.

Josh:

Yeah, he explained because one of the Congress people asked a really great question of why did no one talk about it? Why didn't you bring it up? Yeah, and he's like well, we just assumed that it was above our clearance and someone accidentally brought this up and it was a special access program that we weren't involved with with another intelligence agency, so we didn't want to bring it up, because if it was that, then we could maybe stir some shit up and we don't want to be in trouble, which is completely understandable, but that's also what they wanted, whoever took it away. Yeah, he also stated that he was recently informed about a satellite imagery from 2017 that depicted a uap, but that this information had still not been shared with congress. I, I'm just blown away, because congress is there for a very particular reason and they should know about all this stuff and they're there to make decisions for the people and the pentagon and these military agencies.

Travis:

This is also fringe stuff, like not everybody finds this as captivating, as you know.

Josh:

Others but that's what's so frustrating is that they've taken it upon themselves.

Travis:

The pentagon and these military people were asked to take it on by certain members of congress like b Burchette and Luna. They're the big drivers of this. And then a little bit of that.

Josh:

Yeah, I'm talking about the military.

Travis:

No, yeah, we'll never get answers from the military. It's not ever forthcoming about anything. And they're supposed to be no.

Josh:

Well with Congress.

Travis:

They will say no, they can be, but they don't have to answer. They can use national security as their blanket reasoning why they're not going to divulge any sort of information or secrets, because they don't want our enemies to know troop movements and militaristic operations, or even technology.

Josh:

But they've stepped beyond that because they're using it doesn't matter, I mean it doesn't matter, like Congress says yeah, and they're still going it doesn't matter, I mean it doesn't matter, like they're using taxpayer money.

Travis:

Congress says yeah, and they're still going to keep doing it. That's never going to end. We are still going to overfund the military and underfund every other aspect of our life.

Josh:

Oh, absolutely. But the military is a branch of the government and so it does have oversight, or there should be oversight, but no one's overseeing.

Travis:

There is, but everybody's like the military needs all the money it can get. That's just the nature of our government. We see ourselves as a world power and we just throw money away into that.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

I mean.

Josh:

It's sad they basically just have like a license to kill. They can just do whatever they want, they just have a.

Travis:

Yeah. And then our veterans come home and we treat them like dog shit. Can just do whatever they want, they just have a yeah. And then our veterans come home and we treat them like dog shit. And I'm not. I'm not trying to get political, but just I mean that's a fact. The military funding ends after you've been used.

Josh:

Yep, well, personally, yeah yeah, but when it comes to top secret black site operations, we don't even know. All we do know is that what mace was saying is the pentagon has failed every single audit that they've ever had, and these auditors don't have access.

Travis:

These secret little committees and organizations and they have ways to just like squirrel money away and get funding through. You know, trickery, I guess? I don't know, that's not the word I'm looking for, but it's close. Well, they can say like we need X amount of dollars and they're like, okay, well, what's it for? And like, well, don't worry about what it's for, it's national security. But we're the Pentagon. So you know, kick us down some money bro.

Josh:

Well, that's the thing is there's a whole bunch of black operations where we have no idea how much money is being spent and those aren't being audited because it's above an auditor's clearance and we don't know how many black operations there are. So we're spending a trillion dollars on our military or whatever. I don't know. It could be double that potentially. Yeah, we just don't know, but what we do know is what we can audit is failing every single time. And Mace makes a really good point where, if these things are happening, we should know. And if it's not happening, why are we paying for something that's not happening? If it is happening, how much are we paying for it to be happening?

Travis:

What a question. You're doing some circular logic there.

Josh:

Yeah, and Mace is the one that's really pushing for this, like I've talked to you about before, where I think she wants to know all this information, but she's trying to like get in there on their side.

Travis:

She's coming at it as a budgetary concern, right Like we're spending this money. We need to have you guys accountable for this money and not you guys, cause, like these four people that are there are not responsible for the money being spent. They're just witnesses as part of this.

Josh:

They're trying to get the same information.

Travis:

Yeah, as part of this bigger division. Yeah, and that's the thing is, they're asking these questions of these people that are there and they don't have the answers because that's not their area of focus. So, again, they're asking the wrong questions to the wrong people, right, they get these people there and then they just they go off on this grandstanding and they turn it into a political thing. This is like supposed to be like a release of information.

Josh:

Yeah, I like how Admiral Gallaudet got really excited when Ogles, the very last congressperson, came in and he brought up something that people hadn't brought up the whole hearing Just the ridiculousness of how this is a threat to our personnel Having close encounters and being almost clipped. We're putting our service people in danger. They're a threat. But then he was saying doesn't our people outweigh the threat when it comes to national security? A little bit. They're withholding information that could protect these people because of a threat. So they're continuing a threat for another threat. But we can find a middle ground. Basically, and these people that are withholding some of this information that can allow us to make our pilots and all these people safer is criminal. It is criminal that they're withholding information because they're putting lives at risk and I love that and the crowd loved it because he got a big applause for that.

Travis:

Yeah, but I mean it's a crowd of a bunch of paranoid freaks.

Josh:

I got emotional.

Travis:

Did you?

Josh:

really. Yeah, I got motivated and a little emotional when he was going. It was just like finally, like someone's saying what needs to be said. Yeah, the next person was Mr Elizondo. He said that UAPs are real and that in his opinion.

Travis:

Yeah, what a banger of a statement too.

Josh:

Yeah, uaps are real and that, in his opinion, some of them demonstrate advanced technologies not made by our government or any other government.

Travis:

Which I think it's a weird statement to say government, because private sector is also and we're seeing that especially lately with, like, what's going on with SpaceX. The private sector is where a lot of money is and it's unchecked. Oh, absolutely, there's no government oversight for SpaceX or for any of these other like little space startups that are happening right. So to say like there's no government record of these ships or the building of these ships or UAPs, is kind of telling.

Josh:

Yeah, he's saying a lot by not being able to say a lot and he's very particular with his words. So him saying it's not made by our government or any other government it's very apparent. I mean, they mentioned a lot of other private sector companies, like Bigelow and some of the others. These people are doing crazy things with stuff the military is giving them. Yeah, and he also said that these UAPs are monitoring sensitive military installations around the globe which we've seen.

Travis:

Yeah, we saw them mainly. What like last year, just after the last congressional hearing, was like November, december of last year.

Josh:

Yeah, they said it was like swarms, hive-like swarms. Which of last year? Yeah. They said it was like swarms, Hive-like swarms yeah, which is freaky.

Travis:

They didn't say that those were otherworldly. At least to my recollection, they just referred to them as drones. Right, which could have been any. I mean, it could have been China or, you know, the UK. As far as we're concerned, it could be Mexico, it could have been Canada. It could have been, canada Could have been, but it's happening at their places too.

Josh:

That's what's weird. It's happening all around the globe.

Travis:

I'm nodding my head yes, in defeat, in concession. I mean we're seeing that recently, like we're seeing drones on the East Coast, like a dense population of drones there's like a weird, an uncomfortable, very anomalous to use that word yeah, grouping of drones. There's like a weird, an uncomfortable, anomalous to use that word yeah, grouping of drones. And we're seeing in the uk not we, but like humanity is seeing it in the uk as well yeah, and, and it's not just drones that they're seeing.

Josh:

I mean, there's lots of different kinds of drones that they're seeing, but they're also seeing uaps as well, things that may not be drones they're.

Travis:

I mean we don't know what's inside there, these ships, I mean they all not be drones. I mean we don't know what's inside these chips. I mean they all could be drones. It could be, as far as we're concerned, the information that's given to us. They could all be unmanned UAPs.

Josh:

Yeah, lou also stated that the US is in possession of UAP technologies, as are some of our adversaries. Yeah, which would make sense. We're not the only country in the world.

Travis:

Yeah, that's the thing we talked about a little bit on the last episode and I'm sure we'll find its way through episodes going forward is we're looking at a lot of these things as how they relate to our own national security instead of how they relate to humanity broadly. There is a real possibility that this could move humanity forward and instead we're being very secretive about it and holding it close to our chest because it might pose a threat to the united states national security, instead of like releasing this information and saying, like this is a way to consume energy in a different way or this is a human problem, not a united states or a human like.

Travis:

This is something that humans could use advantageously yeah, that's.

Josh:

The sad part is that there are people out there that will always make something into a weapon. Yeah, no matter what. Yeah, and we need protection against that kind of weapon. I think, before you know, that's what Lou often said. He's like you know, the military is very proactive when it comes to a problem. They don't want to just present a problem, they want the solution as well. So problem they don't want to just present a problem, they want the solution as well.

Travis:

So that's why they haven't released anything. But if you're thinking of everything as a weapon, you're going to want to use everything as a weapon.

Josh:

Exactly I agree.

Travis:

Instead of looking at it as like a way to move humanity forward. Right, how can we use this? Like a lot of military people that get trained to fight and kill, that's what they want. Like, I mean even.

Travis:

Yeah, they're probably trying to make every possible kind of weapon Even scale that way down, like our biggest forms of entertainment MMA, boxing, football all those trainings are to like essentially hurt other people, and you just look forward to the next bout or the next match or the next game so you can continue to do that. And then you extrapolate that up to the military.

Josh:

When we're creating these things missiles, bullets, guns you have a real desire to see how those work out in the field and to see how that they can create a defense for anything that could possibly come from this before they release it, this information, because if they release it and they haven't thought of every possible scenario, then someone in another country or a foreign adversary could come up with something that we hadn't thought of and then we have no defense against it because it is possibly technology that could blow our minds. It's something that we haven't even thought of as civilians. So he did say that that we have it, these technologies, and some of our adversaries do as well. He testified that in his experience, the UAP programs have been operating without proper congressional oversight and that he had signed documentation preventing him from discussing these programs publicly. Like a magnitude of what, though? Seven Magnitude, as in like.

Travis:

Well, you have to quantify that magnitude, though you can't just say magnitude and have that carry the same weight. This guy did, I know he did, and it carried a weight, but he also said surmise instead of surmise. So there's a lot of like misspeaking and it probably comes down to like him being, you know, in a congressional hearing.

Josh:

But like, and they have to be quick? Yeah, because each person only has just a little bit of time.

Travis:

Yeah, because each person only has just a little bit of time and they're rushing them like, okay, okay, okay. Well, they're rushing more the reps than they are the witnesses. But yeah, there is a time limit on it.

Josh:

Yeah, which is frustrating, but it could go on, for, I mean, I see why it is important, because some of these people could probably talk for a very long time.

Josh:

So the next witness was schellenberger when he testified regarding the immaculate Consolation Special Access Program, which he alleges is dedicated to recovering and reverse engineering UAP technologies. That is the document in the organization that the military said did not exist, and then he brings proof that it does, which pissed Mace off big time, miss Mace. He stated that he received information regarding this program from a UAP whistleblower who provided a report containing, among other things, information regarding UAP sightings recorded on military and intelligence databases. He testified that the existence of the program and the name Immaculate Consolation were confirmed by more than one source and when asked how many images, graphics, videos and photos were contained in these databases, he stated that he had been told there were hundreds, maybe thousands, and Congress has told that this does not exist. So he also argued that the Pentagon and the intelligence community are treating us like children and that it's time for us to know the truth about UAPUs, which I agree. It's very obvious that they're doing something.

Travis:

Well, what do you mean by they?

Josh:

I mean they. That's the big question. I mean, that's what some of these Congress people are saying, like who are they? We're stuck. Where do we get this information? Who do we go to next? And that's the issue that Congress is having. There's this web of confusion.

Travis:

That question was asked explicitly by I don't know if it was mace or moskowitz, but they were like if you can't answer these questions, who do we talk to? Frustratingly, they said well, you know, I can't. Maybe it was to schellenberger and, like I, well, I can't reveal my sources, but it's in some of the reporting that I do.

Josh:

yeah, lou said I can't do that too.

Travis:

Yeah, there's one representative, it's just frustrating because they're like this is information we're trying to release to the public and because they're not asking the right questions. Nobody gets anything answered.

Josh:

Right, and there was one representative that asked. He's like so I want to see UAP material, I want to hold it. I want to see biologics. I want to hold it. I want to see biologics Give it a little kiss. Yeah, who? Who can I? Where do I go? We're? We're at our wits end and we don't know who to talk to. Yeah, and that's the big thing is, who's deleting these emails? Who's telling people to not talk about this stuff? We don't have any information. Yeah.

Travis:

And that information, yeah, and that's weird, but it's obviously happening. It is, but it's probably in a one drive and someone's just cleaning up a one drive and they're just like well, you don't need this information anymore. You know somebody who works for a company that has we use one drive. Like I've been guilty of just deleting stuff in that because I'm like this is from 2012. Why is this here? We don't need this information. It's not relative to anything that we need in 2024. Maybe somebody is doing that. Maybe it could be as innocuous as that, like well, this is very old or I'm just going to delete it.

Josh:

But there's been times where, like with the TicTac, where they came in like a helicopter, flew on the ship, went in, took all the data and then left. You know this was just a quicker way of doing that to deleting an email. Yeah, you know. So there are people out there actively hiding this information and they are treating us, Congress and the public, like children. It's just like yeah, we have the answer, but-.

Travis:

Well, I think that's productive. I don't think that we're treating them like children. I just think we're treating them like it's a need to know type thing, and you don't, you just don't need to know which is what I do to my kids. Yeah, I mean I do that to it's because I said so.

Travis:

I do that to people that work on my team. You know like I'm not going to tell you about this thing that's happening because it doesn't benefit you. You're just looking for a reason to gossip and of course I work for the Pentagon. I sell beer for the Pentagon. Yep, on behalf of the Pentagon.

Josh:

We all work for the Pentagon and if you look at it in a sad, sad way, Sure yeah, I mean, if you squint. Yeah, yeah, I don't think you have to squint very hard. So the last one was our NASA man, mr Gold. He acknowledged that national security was a primary concern regarding the UAP issue. He emphasized that the need for a scientific approach to the subject, as well as the importance of data collection oh my god.

Travis:

I am just reminded of that clip of lauren bobert saying she was also on a list. Like trying to invoke mace, I don't she was annoying yeah, she's like I'm on a bunch of lists flat, flat earth birds Aren't real. Biden didn't receive the popular vote. Uh, what else? And I was like, yeah.

Josh:

I rolled my eyes.

Travis:

I don't mean to derail where you were going, but that was the worst.

Josh:

I rolled my eyes I think probably six times in watching this whole hearing and five of them were during her little four minute talk. Yeah, she said yeah, this whole hearing, and five of them were during her little four minute talk.

Travis:

Yeah, she said. Yeah. She started off like I'm gonna get through these questions as fast as possible, I have a lot of questions. And then she asked like five questions and didn't run out of time.

Josh:

She had plenty of time yeah, yeah, that was very bizarre. It's very apparent that she, god, she's the worst it was very apparent that she didn't watch any of the other hearings, and she didn't know, she even said she's one of the constellation yeah, or is that immaculate?

Travis:

immaculate constellation and she's one of those representatives that is always saying do your own research, and she's very apparent she didn't. She didn't do her own research or couldn't do her own research, yeah anyway, uh you saying that he worked for NASA. I was just struck by how dumb that flat earth question was we saw that two episodes ago like how worked up I get and how dangerous it is to say things like that.

Josh:

Yeah, I mean it's baffling. You know I'm sorry if you're a flat earther and listening to this and you're upset but it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. I can't say any more than that. I don't even want to spend the energy trying to disprove. It's just like it's crazy.

Travis:

It just, it just makes me mad so.

Josh:

Mr Gold. He, I talked about that too. It's like we need data and you have the data. We don't have the data. Data is the most important thing when it comes to discovery and innovation and you have it. We want it. He argued that the stigma associated with UAPs is preventing scientists from properly engaging with the phenomena, stating that even members of the NASA UAP independent study team was ridiculed and threatened for their participation in that research effort.

Travis:

Yeah, which we see a lot of through our research of the show. There's a lot of intimidation and character assassination.

Josh:

Yes, and they're not giving the right resources, data and finances, and then they're ridiculed for it.

Travis:

You don't have to disprove what these people are saying. You just make this one specific person feel bad and you dig up a bunch of shit on this person to have them feel so intimidated that they have to back off.

Josh:

Yeah. So he argued that NASA could play a key role in facilitating research by, among other things, combing NASA archives for UAP data, potentially using AI and machine learning algorithms to make this go really quick. I mean, they could just dig through everything with AI and they have it all. Yeah, that'd be great, but it's not happening. Those are witnesses. That's what they talked about. It was fascinating to watch and learn and hear about this stuff. I think that this was important because it kind of got UAPs even more on the map and realizing that this is a much bigger issue. Some people that I've talked to that didn't believe in any of this stuff or didn't know anything because of this hearing, they now know things and don't think I'm as crazy as I once was, which is nice. Yeah, it's kind of a I told you so, yeah, so do you want to talk about some of the key?

Travis:

takeaways. Sure, I mean, my biggest takeaway actually came after the hearing I had watched. Okay, so first off, let off, let's just address the difference in some of our information. In this hearing I had watched something that was broadcast by one of the Fox affiliates out of DC Fox 5 or whatever their single camera coverage I thought was embarrassing and maybe even edited down. I had watched an hour and 12 minute coverage of this hearing, only to find out when I showed up here I was like an hour shy of the full hearing. So I may have missed quite a bit of stuff, and I watched highlights from this and I was like I don't really remember that, but okay.

Josh:

I started watching the Fox one first, and it was as if a high schooler was filming this, like they're panning left and right.

Travis:

They didn't show any of the witnesses Even hear like the tripod kind of squeaking as it moved it. Just it felt very low production, yeah, but anyway, like my biggest takeaway, because I had maybe not watched the full version until, like watching the clips on my way out here. Don't tell, the police actually came from lou alzondo's news nation interview after this hearing, where he was asked if he believed in little green men and the existence of aliens, and lou was like I can't speak to that, I haven't seen any biologics. You know that's the word that gets thrown around a lot. I'm not.

Travis:

That is not who I. I'm a nuts and bolts guy. I will say, yes, the technology has come a long way and that might be a possibility that you know a foreign agency or a foreign government might be able to work this out, or you know private sector. But we have records of these ships moving at this speed, with this maneuverability since the 50s and we were just barely breaking the sound barrier in the 50s. So that tells me that there's something else going on. That was my biggest takeaway. And then, as I was listening to this, I was just like struck by how confident he was and he said UAPs are real.

Josh:

Yes, and knowing his credentials whether some of them be questioned or not, the ones that aren't questioned gives him access to a lot more information than anyone could know, so his word is highly regarded as true. My takeaway is kind of what they all talked about there's a huge lack of transparency and there's a huge amount of redacting information where they aren't allowed to share anything or they choose what they can share, which is just frustrating. Yeah, even stuff that has been deemed okay to share, they redact 90% of it. Congressional oversight. They are bypassing the people in charge to make decisions for the country and they're just doing whatever they want and they don't have anyone telling them yes, no, so they're.

Josh:

Basically, I mean, what gives them the right to make these moral and ethical decisions with some of this technology or some of this subject? I mean, we don't even know what it is. Yeah, and, like May said, if it exists, we need to know, because you should not be in charge. And if it doesn't exist, why are we spending money on something that doesn't exist? I think that's really important. And then that they are a threat. They're pilots endangered by close contacts, and I've heard we've talked about this before where people have actually been clipped in other countries. It's really important. We need to have more data.

Travis:

Like the NASA guy says, yep, things need to be more transparent. It's never going to happen Like the government is not ever going to be transparent. They're just, they're not.

Josh:

Yeah, maybe not to the masses, but when it comes to like private sector, like flying commercial flights and military, there needs to be protocols in place and there needs to be a data collection center so that we can learn maybe some patterns or training on what pilots do in situations like this, because they haven't been able to talk about it up until just recently I think that's what Schellenberger had talked about Like there needs to be a department that just reports on UAPs.

Josh:

Yeah, I mean, the database exists. There needs to be a database that can be combed over and we can learn some of this information and how to deal with this, and there should be a military database that maybe isn't public, but there should also be a public database where we know what's going on as people paying for this. So that was the hearing. Yeah, uaps are real paying for this. So that was the hearing. Yeah, uaps are real, we have proof, but it's not being given to us. It's a national security threat. Congress is pissed that everything is being withheld from them, which is exciting. I think it's exciting.

Travis:

I mean I don't. I'm not seeing what they're seeing. I don't see it as a national security risk. I still I'm of the thinking that we need to reach out. And that was another takeaway from the post-hearing interview with Lou. He was asked if there has been any communication and why aren't we communicating to these UAPs or trying to reach out. And he's like well, what do you mean? There's a difference between verbal communication, like we understand, like we're doing right now, and nonverbal.

Josh:

That was actually in the hearing the hearing.

Travis:

Oh, he talked about it in the center too. I don't remember it from the hearing yeah, that might have been one that you missed, yeah and he was just saying, like well, we can release these fa18s and that is a form of communication. We are showing what our potential is and our threat level by releasing these planes, you know, if something invades our airspace, so that is a form of communication and that's what we're seeing with some of these UAPs.

Josh:

is that coming into our if I walk up to someone in a bar and I hover over them and just stand there, that's a form of communication. I'm saying I'm trying to intimidate you or I'm watching you or I just like your scent, yeah, yeah, could be for an optimist, but having these drones and these uaps not hiding, they're there, I mean that's communicating that hey, we're here, we know you know we're here. Yeah, you can't do anything about it. I'd never thought about communication in that way, like a military communication without words. I thought that was interesting.

Travis:

Okay, yeah, so now what?

Josh:

Well, now we hope that more hearings happen, which I think they will, because we're just at the tip of the iceberg right now.

Travis:

So this is the third hearing we've had 2022, 2023, 2024. Do you think they're going to be yearly or do you think they're going to be more frequent?

Josh:

I think they're going to be yearly, unless things get wacky. But yeah, I hope there's another hearing soon because when that happens we'll do an episode on that. But this next episode we are going to dive into the document that was released in this hearing.

Travis:

Oh, no, we're doing the Immaculate Consolation. Immaculate I think you're saying it wrong Immaculate, immaculate.

Josh:

Have I said it wrong the whole time?

Travis:

No, I'm doing a callback, josh, to the mispronunciation. Oh yeah, this is comedy, buddy. I know Callbacks, I know.

Josh:

But yeah, I want to know. Our researcher and my wife has made it very clear that I'm not allowed to research this topic. I've not been able to read the document because she wants a raw, real, first-time experience for us so that we can share that with you.

Travis:

It's okay, the internet still exists.

Josh:

Yeah, but she's banned me from she changed the password on the internet, not on your phone no, she didn't. But I'm just staying true to what this podcast is. We didn't want to jump the gun and do a lot of research. We wanted the firsthand experience for you guys to hear our thoughts Do quick research.

Travis:

Wait, that's what we're doing for the next one no research whatsoever, because I do quite a bit.

Josh:

No, we're going to do quick research. We're just not going to spend months researching.

Travis:

Well, I mean, I do a week because we don't find out what the next episode is until yeah, and we're going to stay true to that format.

Josh:

Do you have a quiz? We do not have a quiz. We will have a quiz next episode and we're going to get back to what we've been doing in the past, but we just wanted to do a three part episode on the hearings and then the biggest thing that came out of the hearing, which the Immaculate Consolation document.

Travis:

Okay, so pretend the internet doesn't exist, We'll jump right into it. We'll get the dossier. What minutes before.

Josh:

No, we'll get the dossier soon. Okay, my brother who read through it said that we could do an episode on every line of the document, like it is crammed full of insane information. We're going to try to describe and go through what this is so our listeners will have a little bit better understanding of something that we don't even know what it is yet. So thank you for listening and we're really excited that each and every single one of you has given us great reviews.

Travis:

Yep, we appreciate your listenage. Yeah, let's thank our. Let's thank our people.

Josh:

Yeah, thank you for listening. Thank you, jordan.

Travis:

Thank you, jordan, for the artwork. Thank you, jordan for the theme song. Thank you, jordan for the research. Thank you, jordan for the opportunity. Thank you for the space.

Josh:

Thank you for teaching me how to edit. Thank you for teaching.

Travis:

Josh, how to edit?

Josh:

Yeah, I think that's all the people. No, we really couldn't have done this without Jordan. Sounds silly, but it's true. It's true, it's very true. Well, have a great week. We look forward to you hearing our next episode. Yeah, bye.

People on this episode

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Josh Snodgrass

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Travis Wright

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