The Anunnaki Theory: Ancient Alien Gods and Humanity’s Genetic Origins

We’re going all the way back to ancient Sumer, where some of the oldest written stories on Earth introduce us to the Anunnaki — powerful gods tied to creation, civilization, labor, floods, and humanity’s place in the universe.

But thousands of years later, those same stories got a very different remix. According to ancient astronaut theories, the Anunnaki weren’t gods at all. They were extraterrestrials from Nibiru who came to Earth for gold, genetically engineered humans as a workforce, and left behind myths that may actually be ancient history.

So we’re digging into the original Sumerian texts, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Atrahasis flood story, Enki and Enlil, Zecharia Sitchin’s controversial interpretation, Planet Nine, the Nephilim, human evolution, and why this theory still has such a grip on people.

Were the Anunnaki ancient gods? Alien visitors? A mistranslated mythology? Or just one of the greatest stories humanity ever told?

Videos:

• The Why Files: Annunaki | Gods from Planet Nibiru and the Makers of Man
• World of Antiquity: Who REALLY were the Anunnaki? And Other Questions (start at 4:18 end at 7:21)

Transcript

Aliens Yes But Maybe No

Josh 0:03

Aliens. Aliens.

Travis 0:07

Yes. But maybe no.

Welcome, Format, And The Quiz Tease

Travis 0:19

Welcome back to the show. Aliens, yes, but maybe no. With Josh and Travis. I am Travis.

Josh 0:26

I'm Josh.

Travis 0:27

This is an otherworldly podcast as ambiguous as our title.

Josh 0:31

I legitimately do not remember what we talked about last time.

Travis 0:35

Uh Blue B maybe no. That was that was an older show. I'm just looking at my notes.

Josh 0:45

That's true. It's not my fault. No. It's everyone else's. I'm so pumped for this.

Travis 0:51

I know. You've got your little Anunnaki boner showing. You've just been carrying it around. And I mean it's a bone that says Anunnaki on it. I don't know what you guys are thinking.

Josh 1:00

It's like a foam finger.

Travis 1:02

Yeah, but it's a bone.

Josh 1:03

Yeah, it's a bone. Yeah, we're talking about Anunnaki. And I'm so excited. I'm gonna hold my I don't want people to know where I stand yet.

Travis 1:12

Oh god. They already know. This is they already know.

Josh 1:16

It is all true. But I'll leave my judgment for the end.

Travis 1:20

Yeah, okay. Yeah. So if you've never listened to the show, that might be a surprise where Josh Lance. But if you've listened to like at least one episode, I think I think you bring it up every I don't mention it that much. I think you bring it up every episode.

Josh 1:34

No, you bring it up every episode.

Travis 1:37

No, no, I do not bring it up. I don't care about the Anunnaki. Who even are they?

Josh 1:42

Well, it was interesting. You know, I knew enough about them, but I've never dedicated time to sit down and study and learn. It was great. Very interesting, very exciting, too.

Travis 1:53

Jeez, Josh, take it easy.

Josh 1:55

I know. Stick around for the end of the episode. We do a quiz. That's when we find out about our next topic.

Travis 2:02

Yeah.

Josh 2:02

That we're gonna do because we don't know before. And we will also read some fan mail and some positive reviews.

Travis 2:08

We got fan mail?

Josh 2:09

And a positive review. Good.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Okay, yeah.

Josh 2:12

So stick around for that. Okay.

Sumer, Cuneiform, And The Anunnaki

Josh 2:15

So long before the pyramids or the Greek gods, there was Sumer located in Mesopotamia around 3000 BCE. This place was the real deal. The birthplace of writing, the first big cities, and where humans first started figuring out how the world works. And right in the middle of all those ancient stories, you keep seeing the same name. The Anunnaki. In the original carvings, there's no doubt about who they were. They were gods. They called the shots, they decided everyone's fate, and kept the universe running in a very specific way. Fast forward to today, and people are reading these stories totally different. Instead of just myths, some see these as literal history about beings who came to Earth to create a workforce. The facts stay the same. What changes how we look at them. So in this episode, we're looking at both sides what the Sumerian texts actually say and why those same stories feel so strangely real when you hear them in a certain light.

Travis 3:10

Very exciting.

Josh 3:11

It is exciting.

Travis 3:12

Yeah.

Josh 3:12

So let's wade in.

Travis 3:14

Wade?

Josh 3:15

Yeah. It's like a gentle walk into the water.

Travis 3:19

Oh no.

Josh 3:20

Maybe just kind of float, but your feet are still touching the ground.

Travis 3:23

I don't know. I don't uh that's uh I don't I don't want to get wet. Okay. Uh so yeah, let's let's wade in, as it were. So we're gonna get into uh Mesopotamia and the first written record. So what we're digging into today isn't just some wild theory. It's actually backed up by some of the most detailed archaeological finds ever discovered.

Nineveh’s Library And Lost Tablets

Travis 3:44

Back in 1842, an archaeologist named Austin Henry Layard started digging at Nineveh. I always get these names because I work in the wine business, I'm always putting like affectations in the wrong position.

Josh 3:59

Yeah.

Travis 3:59

So don't come at me about pronunciation, all right? I'm seeing these sometimes for like the first, second, or third time. And this is really the first time I've said some of these names out loud ever. So just take it easy, all right? Okay, so back to it. Back in 1842, an archaeologist named Austin Henry Layard started digging at Nineveh. He found the famous library of Ashurben Ashurben Epal.

Josh 4:23

Yeah, Ashurben Epal.

Travis 4:24

Sure, got it, nailed it. Uh, which goes all the way back to the 7th century BCE. They hold out thousands of clay tablets covered in cuneiform writing. A lot of these were copies of even older Sumerian stories from around 3000 BC. Pretty old stuff, right?

Josh 4:38

Yeah.

Travis 4:38

Buried in those old archives, we find the big stories that started it all. Epic of Gilgamesh. Josh, have you read the Epic of Gilgamesh?

Josh 4:46

No, but I've heard lots of stories from it.

Travis 4:49

Ah, cool. Well, I read it today. It's very interesting. Did you really? Yeah. You son of a bitch. I did. I was interested. It actually How long is it? It's oh it's long.

Josh 5:00

And you read it today.

Travis 5:01

Yeah. It's not like uh it's not like 600 pages or anything like that. I'm not a speed reader, you are.

Josh 5:07

And it makes me mad.

Travis 5:08

Well, I I finished. I'll say I finished it today. Okay. I didn't just start reading it today. So I sell this wine called Siduri, and Siduri was a character from the Epic of Gilgamesh who told Gilgamesh that he needed to just like chill out and be cool, drink some wine, you know, don't worry about all of this stuff that you're worrying about. Gilgamesh was actually kind of tyrannical, and they sent a guy, a wild man, to help kind of chill him out, also.

Josh 5:34

Interesting. I'll read it. I should.

Travis 5:36

Sure. I mean, if you like ancient stories, mythology, it's it's it's pretty interesting. So anyway.

Josh 5:42

So in these old archives, uh, we find the Epic of Gilgamesh. What else?

Travis 5:46

Yep. The Atrahasis epic, the original myths about how the world was made, how the gods were ranked, and the first stories of the Great Flood.

Josh 5:53

Wow.

Travis 5:54

So Sumerian life really took off in southern Mesopotamia, right between the Tigris and Euphrates River.

Josh 5:59

Yeah. So wait, this archaeologist found all of these writings? What a find.

Travis 6:05

Yeah, what a find.

Josh 6:06

That'd be exciting.

Travis 6:07

So yeah, so this is like pretty new-ish discovery.

Josh 6:10

Yeah.

Ziggurats, Early Cities, And Daily Life

Travis 6:11

So Sumerian life really took off in Southern Mesopotamia, right between the Tigris and Euphrates River. Powerful cities like Eruk, Ur, Eridu started popping up. They built those massive temple towers called ziggurats. Heard of them.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Yeah.

Travis 6:23

They look like pyramids. They came up with the first real laws and ways to run a government, and they figured out how to use irrigation to farm on a huge scale. It's like canals and stuff like that.

Josh 6:32

Yeah.

Travis 6:33

Plows. They invented a plow.

Josh 6:35

Figured out to rotate what you plant so you don't ruin the soil.

Travis 6:39

Fallow fields, yeah. This is a world where the Anunnaki show up. They're the main characters and the story of how the world. I mean, to be fair, everybody is their own main character and their own story.

Josh 6:49

Well, I mean, if this is potentially how humans started, I mean, they would be in the time the main character. I don't think they'd be the main character now. But I don't know.

Travis 6:59

I don't know. Maybe. You are such an Anunnaki fanboy. You're just not it.

Josh 7:04

I'm a slut for Anunnaki.

Travis 7:06

I know you are. This history is incredible, not just because the myths are cool, but because the records we have are so incredibly old and detailed.

The Anunnaki Hierarchy Of Gods

Josh 7:14

So if you look at the clay tablets, the Anunnaki weren't a species. They were more like a specific group of gods, all related to the sky god, Anu, who act like a single, powerful council running the universe. Later, their role expanded to include the administration of the underworld judgment. So here's the figures in the hierarchy. There's Anu, he's the distant supreme figure of authority within the heavens. Then there's Enlil, the enforcer of order and storms, responsible for the rigid maintenance of hierarchy. And then there's Enki, the embodiment of wisdom and creation, known for adaptive problem solving. Then there's Ninhursog, the divine force presiding over fertility and the preservation of life. Then there's In Nana, a figure of immense influence navigating the spheres of power and conflict. Finally, Uta and Nana representing the sun and the moon. And these figures govern justice and the natural cycles of time. So if you read the stories, the Sumerians describe the Anunnaki like people, emotional, complicated, and incredibly powerful. Sometimes they're described as having horned helmets. But the actual art is different. It's very symbolic and stylized, often giving them strange physical features like wings or eagle heads. Though some historians claim that the artwork may not actually be depicting the Anunnaki.

Symbolic Art Versus UFO Readings

Travis 8:35

So we have a little insert here. Josh, do you want to describe what it is we're seeing?

Josh 8:40

I don't even know what I'm seeing. So it looks like a Sumerian clay wall kind of thing. It's just an image, and it's two people with their palms out worshiping something up in the sky. Kind of looks like a UFO. And then that you can see someone in the UFO on the top, and it looks so like three little characters and this thing. Yeah. Definitely representation of Anunnaki. I think I see like a beak, a tall hat, and you guys can search all this stuff too. I highly recommend you guys dive a lot deeper because you can. So millennia later, modern interpretations reframe Sumerian artwork as literal instead of symbolic, even though historians say they may not actually be depicting it. Yeah. So giant winged beings as literal, technologically advanced items, UFO depictions, and unfamiliar symbols within the environment. So which one is the correct depiction of the Annaki? The writing or the art? The human writings of it, or these crazy pictures of eagle people and winged.

Travis 9:44

But also probably created by humans.

Josh 9:47

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, maybe their writing didn't have the words to describe it, but they were able to draw what they saw. I don't know.

Travis 9:57

Um, I mean, I think they did have the words. The people that were creating these things had access to language that maybe not everybody could like tap into or knew. Like reading was a relatively new thing, right? Reading and writing. Not everybody had access. Yeah. I mean, papyrus, this is about that same time when that was invented. And so paper was becoming a little more accessible, but not really to people like you and me that are out here in the mud. They might have taught reading, but people don't have access to words like we do now, you know, like books being around all the time. So you would see something on a piece of papyrus or written on a wall.

Josh 10:38

Or clay tablet.

Travis 10:39

Yeah, it says like Cleopatra does the nasty or whatever, and it would take you like five minutes to read that because you're just like sounding it out all over again.

Josh 10:47

Yeah.

Travis 10:48

Right? Okay, so you want to hear about Enki and Enlil?

Enki, Enlil, And The Worker Revolt

Josh 10:52

Yeah, hell yeah.

Travis 10:53

Uh Enlil is the architect of order, hierarchy and control, the one making sure the system operates exactly as intended. Then you have Enki, who's associated with water, wisdom, and creation. Where Enlil maintains the system, Enki finds a way around it when it starts to break. And early on the system does start to break.

Josh 11:11

Uh-oh.

Travis 11:12

Yeah, uh-oh's right. All great stories begin with an uh-oh. Right of a hero's quest.

Josh 11:17

Yeah.

Travis 11:17

The labor keeping the world functional, the canals, the land, the infrastructure, isn't being done by humans yet. It's being done by a group of lesser gods known as the Agiji. A Gigi?

Josh 11:28

A G I say a Gigi.

Travis 11:30

Okay. So they're the workforce, and the text described them performing repetitive, grueling physical labor that never really ends. That sounds miserable. Sounds like a curse.

Josh 11:38

Yeah.

Travis 11:39

Like slaves. Yeah, they were, they were slaves. Like Sisyphus, always pushing a rock up the hill.

Josh 11:44

Yeah.

Travis 11:45

But eventually they reach a limit. They stop working, burn their tools, and organize resistance. Hell yeah. They march together and surround Enlil's dwelling. Enlil is forced to respond because the entire structure he oversees depends entirely on that labor continuing. God damn. I love this. So the gods assemble and the problem is laid out plainly. The work still needs to be done, and the current system is no longer holding. Enlil's instinct is to restore order, to reassert control. But Anki approaches it differently. He doesn't focus on the rebellion itself. He focuses on the underlying issue. The labor isn't going away. So instead of forcing compliance, he proposes replacing the workforce entirely with a new submissive species. I'm sure that's gonna work out just great. For me it did. For you it did?

Josh 12:28

Yeah.

Travis 12:29

Oh, okay.

unknown 12:30

Yeah.

Travis 12:31

Getting real personal.

Humans Made To Replace The Workforce

Josh 12:32

Mm-hmm.

Travis 12:32

Uh, humans are formed from clay to take over the labor. They maintain the land, the system, and the structure the gods built. For a while it works. The balance is restored, and the gods step back from the work they no longer want to do. But over time, a new problem emerges. Uh-oh. Humans multiply and become disruptive. Their presence grows large enough that it starts interfering with the order Enlil is trying to maintain. Surprising no one. Typical human. Humans are very chaotic.

Josh 13:00

Yeah.

Travis 13:01

So he brings on plagues, drought, famine, measures meant to reduce a population and restore balance. But each time Enki intervenes, quietly guiding humans through it, showing them how to survive, how to adapt, how to outlast what's being sent against them. Eventually, Enlil escalates beyond simple correction.

Plagues, The Great Flood, And Control

Travis 13:20

He needs a flood to remove humanity entirely and start over. Jesus Christ. But true to his nature, Anki finds a way through it. He reaches one man, Atrahasis, also known in other versions as Zeusudra, or Utna Pishtim and gives him instructions. Build a vessel and prepare for what's coming. The flood happens. The world is almost entirely wiped clean. When the waters recede, survivors remain. Humanity continues. Enlil sees this as a failure. The system didn't reset the way it was supposed to, but at this point, the response shifts. Instead of trying to eliminate humanity again, the approach changes to limiting it. Human lifespans are shortened, birth becomes more dangerous, survival is less certain. The population can continue, but it's constrained. Control is built into the system itself.

Josh 14:10

Bastards.

Travis 14:11

Uh yeah. And some versions of the story, the man who survived the flood is given immortality, set apart from the rest of humanity as a kind of exception to what just happened. From that point forward, the dynamic between Enki and Endless stabilizes. One maintains order, the other ensures the system doesn't collapse under that order. And that balance, control versus adaptation, authority versus intervention, becomes a framework. Everything else operates inside. I love that story. So we're not gonna get, we don't have enough time to cover like class struggle and controlling the means of your own production and things like that that I think are very important to the story.

Josh 14:47

Right. Yeah, there's a lot behind all this, and that's why I was saying, like, you guys should dive deeper. I mean, there's a bunch of information about the a GG. It's fascinating. And we'll link the Wi-Files video on this too. He does a really good job expanding on that story. So

Zecharia Sitchin And The Nibiru Lens

Josh 15:04

I'm gonna get into the Sitchin interpretation.

Travis 15:07

Have you heard of it? Sitchin? The Sitchin situation.

Josh 15:10

I wasn't I was asking the the listener, not you.

Travis 15:12

The Sitchin situation.

Josh 15:14

Excuse me, I'd be on for a response. Sitch. I'm waiting for Sitch. Sitch.

Travis 15:18

You can do that. I mean, I that I don't own I don't own that phrase.

Josh 15:22

Okay.

Travis 15:22

You can use that phrase.

Josh 15:24

Zechariah Sitchin looks at these old stories and basically strips away all the mythology and religious mystery. He takes the simple basic plot but pulls out the symbolic stuff, looking at everything through a completely different lens. So in his interpretation, the Anunnaki are reframed as physical biological entities hailing from the world of Nibiru. Their arrival on Earth is dated to approximately 450,000 years ago. The mission is industrial, extracting gold to stabilize their own failing atmosphere. The repetitive, grueling nature of labor creates the fundamental workforce crisis, and humanity is engineered as the definitive biological solution to that problem. So under this lens, every facet of the Enkian enlistal cycle is transformed into a narrative that is strictly operational, literal, and technological. So the synthesis of life, the ancient fusion of clay and the divine blood, is reimagined as sophisticated manipulation of genetic code in an advanced laboratory. The burden of toil, what was once described as a sacred service, is translated into the industrial reality of a mining operation. And then the divine made physical, the formidable gods of the cuneiform record, are cast as advanced extraterrestrial travelers. So the tricky part is that this tech-savvy version doesn't really match up with what academic experts see in the original Sumerian writing. But the reason people keep talking about it is because the original story already has all these pieces that make the theory feel like it could actually be true. Like a profound systematic conflict. Love that, gotta have that. The heavy weight of labor, the genesis of the human species, epic, and the rigid celestial hierarchy. Nibiru is the main anchor for this whole idea, acting as the home base that ties all the different parts of the story together. In the Sitchin model, if you take away the metaphors, the record turns into a literal description of a real place, a physical planet defined by a 3,600-year elliptical orbit, its periodic return to the inner solar system, and the sovereign home of the origin point of the Anunnaki. In the original chronicles, in the actual cuneiform records, the name seems to mean something else entirely. A celestial reference point utilized for archaic navigational or ritual systems, and an identifier potentially associated with Jupiter or specific seasonal markers. I was reading through some comments. Some people are saying that it could possibly be like the eclipse. So modern take adds a few more layers to it, since we're not looking at it in ancient eyes. We see the concept of a cyclical return, a formidable catastrophic influence upon terrestrial life in the persistence and ongoing connection to Earth. So this turns the history into a repeating cycle where the same events keep happening over and over, which we hear that all the time. History repeats itself. It does definitely, but we like the predictability of human nature. We forget that we do things over and over again. But I I think there's also some things that are not predictable.

Travis 18:33

Oh okay.

Josh 18:34

Skateboarding? Come on, are you kidding me?

Travis 18:37

Yeah, who could have predicted skateboarding?

Josh 18:39

Yeah. Uh the Kardashians?

Travis 18:42

I mean, I guess yeah.

Josh 18:44

I didn't see that coming.

Travis 18:45

It's just like uh foreign modern royalty, though, or like hierarchical structures, you know, social hierarchical structures, also been around for a long time. You could have predicted Kardashians easy.

unknown 18:56

Fuck.

Travis 18:56

Fine. And skateboarding is just a piece of wood with wheels.

Josh 19:00

So well, yeah. Are you trying to are you trying to prove me wrong here?

Travis 19:05

Uh no, but you know, Josh, once the Anunnaki theory moves beyond mythology, it starts pulling from completely different fields.

Genes, Planet Nine, Nephilim Parallels

Travis 19:14

Genetics, astronomy, religion, looking for anything that feels like a match. None of these prove the theory on their own, but together they create a framework that feels interconnected. The TKTL1 gene. A small but notable genetic difference between modern humans and Neanderthals comes down to a single amino acid change in the TKTL1 gene. Now, I'm going to be on record, I am not a microbiologist. Uh I have no idea what I'm talking about. All I'm doing is reading from the script. So don't come at me about the science for this.

Josh 19:48

The literal reason I started this podcast with you was that you were a scientist.

Travis 19:55

That's not that's not true at all. I've made that very clear.

unknown 19:57

Oh shit.

Travis 19:58

It linked to faster neuron production in the developing brain.

Josh 20:01

I'm gonna have to change my LinkedIn.

Travis 20:03

Your LinkedIn says that I'm a scientist?

Josh 20:06

Mm-hmm. Okay. Best friends with a scientist.

Travis 20:09

Oh, yeah. Um, I mean, we don't we can we can talk about that whole sentence off air.

Josh 20:15

Okay. Like the scientist part? Or it does it all need to be corrected?

Travis 20:20

Um, we can talk about it later. Uh in mainstream science, this is treated as a natural evolutionary mutation. In ancient astronaut circles, that's a weird sentence.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Love it.

Travis 20:31

That level of precision is sometimes interpreted as a targeted modification, a subtle adjustment that may have accelerated human cognition beyond what would normally be expected.

Josh 20:41

Hmm.

Travis 20:41

Planet nine from outer space. Huh?

Josh 20:45

Love it.

Travis 20:45

Well, that's Planet 9 from outer space. But Planet 9, a modern Nibiru parallel, astronomers have observed unusual clustering in the orbits of distant objects in the outer solar system, leading to the hypothesis of an undiscovered planet 9.

Josh 21:00

Yeah.

Travis 21:01

That's wild. Yeah. It hasn't been directly observed, but its gravitational influence is considered plausible. For ancient alien theorists, this becomes an easy stand-in for Nibiru, a hidden distant planet with a long elliptical orbit that could periodically interact with the inner solar system. Even if the specifics don't match Sitchin's original claims. Okay. Okay.

Josh 21:24

Yeah, that one's wild. Like the Sumerians wrote about it. He claimed it and kind of tweaked it a little bit. And then later it was observed that there is a ninth planet in our solar system that is way out past Pluto right now, but after a long period of time, like 30 something thousand years, it'll come back. It's just wild that it lined up that way. Yeah. What what else? What more evidence? Give me more. I'm hungry.

Travis 21:50

Um, I think maybe you've had enough. You've had enough evidence, Josh. I think no. I think we're gonna I'm gonna bathe in it. I think we're gonna have to cut you off. Or you're starting to get Overserved a little bit. Uh, the Nephilim in the Bible and the book of Genesis, the Nephilim are described as the offspring of the sons of God and human women, figures often translated as giants or mighty beings of renown. While traditional interpretations vary, ancient astronaut theorists draw a direct parallel between the Nephilim and the Anunnaki, suggesting a continuation of the same narrative, non-human beings interacting with humanity, producing hybrid offspring and influencing early civilization. So reading between the lines, Hong Kong beep beep, there was some sexy time going on, yeah.

Josh 22:37

Finger in handhole.

Travis 22:39

Yep, they showed Josh the universal sign for sex, which is finger and handhole. Yep, exactly described.

Josh 22:45

Have you ever seen Ancient Aliens, the TV show?

Travis 22:49

Um, yes, I have seen Ancient Aliens a TV show.

Josh 22:53

They they just mention ancient astronauts a lot.

Travis 22:56

Yep, yep. That's why I'm chuckling every time I hear it, because that has been like proven not true, but they're still gonna just hang on to that.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Okay, okay.

Travis 23:06

Anyway,

Civilization Leaps And Shared Myth Patterns

Travis 23:07

the sudden rise of civilization, the rapid development of Sumerian society, writing mathematics, law, large-scale architecture often gets framed as a kind of jump in human capability. Archaeology shows this as a gradual progression from earlier cultures, but ancient alien theory leans into the technological gaps that haven't been filled, as if knowledge was introduced rather than slowly discovered.

Josh 23:28

It does seem like that. Like there's just nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, no advancement, no invention, and then just like boop, here we are. Well, and then they just went wild. Okay. I mean, I'm and now we're going to the stars, which is wild.

Travis 23:43

Yeah, I mean, you're gonna have to be a little more specific about what you just claimed.

Josh 23:48

Um, it it just if you look at all the species before humans, there wasn't much invention, there wasn't much communication, there wasn't much anything. They didn't advance at all. And then all of a sudden the jump in human capability just seemed like it was overnight, and the Homo sapiens just wiped out all the other ones because something happened. Oh shit. You know, maybe it was the TKTL1 gene, you know, that made it so that we could think faster. And I I don't know, but it it does raise a good point where that was the start of civilization, and it just happened like that, even though there was living things for tens of thousands of years before.

Travis 24:31

Okay, so like what do you mean like that? Talk to me in evolutionary terms. Like we're talking about thousands and thousands of years, right? What is a snap of a finger to you?

Josh 24:40

Well, it wasn't like someone had their DNA altered and they wake up, they're like, I'm gonna create a bow and arrow. There was some time to it, but with all these different species that were around at the time, and then the Homo sapiens come, okay, they took control and they were able to think, they were able to plan, they're able to come up with strategy to take over and be the only species.

Travis 25:01

Oh, I think that happens once you get a civilization started. I don't think that it happened overnight. I think that once you start making settlements, then you're sharing ideas with other people, and then that becomes like a draw as word spreads, and so you get more and more people coming from other parts of, you know, your very small world, and then they share ideas, and then that's how technology, you know, as primitive as it is, that's how technology is shared. I don't, I don't believe that it would just was like a snap of the fingers. I think that that doesn't give humans enough credit. I think that we are very adaptive and very capable of coming up with things, and though it might seem like it was very quick, I think that it was like a big evolutionary step in like our social structure and how we interact with one another.

Josh 25:50

Yeah, I I agree. I mean, collaboration is amazing. Yes, and I like that is how things happen.

Travis 25:57

Right. And these small little this was pre-like the Greek city-states where you had these tiny little governorships that were run by not a king, but like a a governor of this this area that and they all reported up to a king. So they were all these little towns, burgs, governorships, whatever you want to call them.

Josh 26:16

And they each had their own lead thinkers in there. Sure. They would hold classes, I don't remember what they're called. But yeah, they would all collaborate in thought, and that's why Rome invented so many things.

Travis 26:29

Well, Greeks, and then Rome still from Greek. A lot of their mythology, Roman mythology comes from Greek, which comes from this. It's just like an evolutionary step where you take a little bit from Anunnaki. You take a little bit. I mean, like Hercules or Heracles came from the Epic of Gilgamesh.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Yeah.

Travis 26:46

There are a lot of stories in the epic that you can see a direct line into Greek mythology.

Josh 26:52

Yeah. I mean, that's the point in the evidence is the global parallels of mythology. Oh, okay. Like everything has the same story.

Travis 27:02

Yeah. Okay. Stories of sky beings, creator gods, and knowledge bringers appear across multiple cultures. Mesopotamia, Mesoamerica, indigenous North American traditions, and others. Most experts say this is just how humans tell stories shaped by the world around them. But the other side thinks it's more like a global memory of the same visitors, just told in different ways depending on who was writing it down.

Josh 27:23

It's kind of hard. Like, I don't know if they all experienced it or if they communicated, because I mean the flood, I mean, having over a hundred different flood stories and it all is the same, it seems as though maybe people were in communication. I know there were a lot of stories were shared around campfires on trade routes.

Travis 27:41

Sure, but when you're thinking of like your immediate world, and floods have been happening for as long as the earth has been around, like floods just always exist.

Josh 27:51

The great flood.

Travis 27:52

Sure. What's the great flood, Josh?

Josh 27:54

Just flooding the whole world, and there was select people of survivors, like eight people. You know, the Bible says Noah. This one is atrohuses or what is it, etnopetishtum?

SPEAKER_02 28:08

Yeah.

Josh 28:08

Like, I mean, all these different cultures have different names for the same story. Like they're telling the same story, which is wild. Same with creating man out of clay or dirt. I mean, it's the same story of man's creation. Sure. Yeah. Like the Sumerians say, what is it? Adame or whatever. I forget what their name of the first man was.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

It was like Adampa or something like that.

Josh 28:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

And Adema and then Adampa.

Josh 28:36

Then Christianity takes it, calls it Adam. Yeah. And a lot of these creation stories are very similar.

Travis 28:42

Yeah. Tales as old as time, Josh.

Josh 28:46

Yeah. But I I just don't know. I don't know if they experienced it themselves and they all had a story. There was 150 vessels around the world that were saving people. I I just don't know. Which is wonderful.

Travis 29:00

You don't you don't know?

Josh 29:01

Me personally, I should.

Travis 29:03

You should know what all of this human history?

Josh 29:06

Yeah. No, I don't know. We don't know. That's what's so fun about it.

Storytelling, Belief, And Why We Want Answers

Josh 29:10

The story of the Anunnaki has a dual perspective. So it has two uh views. One side, the Anunnaki are situated within a meticulous documented mythology full of symbiology and poetry. And then the other, a millennia later, these same chronicles and stories have been reframed to become literal, which is really interesting. You'd think it would be reverse.

Travis 29:32

You would think so. That is like a basic tenet of a lot of modern religion is that these things literally happened.

Josh 29:38

Yeah. And I just see it all as story. I mean, it's a good story, and it does a story, doesn't mean it's not true. You know, it just that's how they express themselves back then. That's how they told what happened is through story.

Travis 29:51

You had to think about it as like entertainment. It was like going to a movie, and not everybody's gonna tell the exact same story the same way every time. Those stories get told a little differently, and it's not until they started recording this stuff that you had a little more consistent storytelling. But even that is dependent upon who is writing that story down.

Josh 30:10

Right.

Travis 30:11

You know, they might have thought of something interesting and written it down, and then the story is now suddenly much bigger than it once was because somebody had interpreted something a little differently, and because they have that pen that gave them power to record whatever, whatever it is that they wanted to put down.

Josh 30:27

Well, and if you were going back to the social aspect of a civilization or a community or a tribe, just think about sitting around the fire and people are talking, and there's a really good storyteller over there. Someone's gonna be like, Oh, hey, tell us that one story about the flood. And everyone likes his version of the story because he makes it fun and interesting and entertaining, and that feels good. And he's gonna want to stay that guy, the storyteller. Unless it was a spiritual practice. I know that's existed in the past where storytellers were actually like a revered person. Right. And it was their job to keep facts accurate to make the story last forever. So what what do you think about the similar sky being stories across all the different cultures point to? Like something shared or just a human storytelling pattern?

Travis 31:22

Um I don't know where I land on this. I think that it's interesting as far as like trying to explain where we come from. Because I've I I feel like we as humans are always trying to solve that mystery, right? Because nobody knows. It's like the great big question.

Josh 31:41

Yeah.

Travis 31:41

Where do we come from? Where do we go? Where do we come from?

Josh 31:46

I I think that is what separates us from Cotonai Joe. The other species, you know, that drive uh that what other birds, plants, dogs, uh the other species that were similar to the humans.

Travis 32:02

Okay. Yep.

Josh 32:03

That was kind of what I was saying is that switch, like humans had something that all these other species that were just slightly similar to humans, but just a little different, humans had what you're saying is that drive, that that wonder, that what if, the curiosity.

Travis 32:19

Well, I don't necessarily believe that because in earlier versions of humanity they do have religion and they were practicing like funeral rites and you know, having rituals and things like that. So there was a curiosity about what happened. I think that as far as as long I mean, we we see that with I mean, even elephants, like elephants will have memories.

Josh 32:41

Yeah. And mourn.

Travis 32:43

Correct, and mourn. Same with uh gorillas, chimpanzees.

Josh 32:46

Mm-hmm.

Travis 32:47

They they all have their own. I don't think that it's specific to humans, but I think the way we think about it is specific to to us.

Josh 32:55

I can see that.

Travis 32:56

So anyway, I don't know. I don't know. I I just I f I find it interesting, just like I find Greek mythology very interesting. I like it as a form of storytelling.

Josh 33:05

Yeah, all mythology is interesting.

Travis 33:08

Do I think that it's aliens? I don't know, man. I think it's a fun thought experiment and a fun idea to talk about, but I think down way down in my heart of hearts, I don't believe that that's the case. Because like, why why? Why would they come here just to like fuck with us and then and then leave, or fuck with us and stick around? And if they suck around, why don't we see them now or evidence of them now?

Josh 33:32

Well, I mean, it we could have meant nothing to them. We were expendable. They made us to help them with a problem, and then they were just like, see up.

Travis 33:42

Yeah, but I mean, what we talked about today, we didn't even really touch on why they were here, which was for our gold.

Josh 33:48

Yeah, they they wanted gold to help their atmosphere.

Travis 33:51

Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. We didn't really talk about that. They're credited with creating our modern civilization, and then they just they took all of our gold.

Josh 34:00

They took what they needed because gold has a bunch of different properties and it can help in a whole bunch of different ways. And one way is purifying air because their planet that's is that what you have in your air purifiers?

SPEAKER_03 34:12

Gold?

Josh 34:13

I'm not that rich, but it does, it can purify. It can also, it's a big conductor, it's really important with space travel. I mean, there's tons of ways we can use gold, and their planet was dying, their air was turning to poison basically, and they needed that gold. So they sent a team down here when the planet got close to Earth, and then when the planet was back, they went back and they were gonna destroy us, and they did the flood. But because of one of the gods or Anunnaki, he wanted to save us because he was one of the leaders in the relationship with humankind. It's wonderful, it's a beautiful story. But you aren't gonna land on aliens like the Anunnaki are not aliens. This is all baloney.

Travis 34:56

No, that's not what I said. I like that it's a great storytelling device, it's a way for us to try to understand our own history, what makes us who we are.

Josh 35:06

Okay.

Travis 35:07

Am I gonna give that credit to an otherworldly being? No, I'm not going to. I'm not gonna say that it was aliens that came here, and if not for them, we wouldn't have what we have now. I don't think that's the case at all.

Josh 35:19

So easy to see it as myth and gods, not aliens.

Travis 35:23

I think it's storytelling, yes.

Josh 35:24

Okay.

Travis 35:25

I think it's great storytelling.

Josh 35:27

I'm my yes, maybe, or no on this. I'm a high maybe.

Travis 35:31

Wow, but then he then it dropped.

Josh 35:34

Only because we don't have any proof.

Travis 35:37

Well, we don't even know if our translations of some of these texts are correct.

Josh 35:41

I mean, the scientists have done a really good job. The Stitchens translation was incorrect. Yeah, for the most part. Yeah. Yeah, he got a lot wrong and he flourished a lot. He is a storyteller, and he wasn't a scientist, he wasn't an archaeologist, he was nothing.

Travis 35:55

But we don't,

Translation Limits And Missing Context

Travis 35:56

but like you could read, so Josh, think about the English language. You could write a sentence and it could mean something to you very personal, but someone else were to read that sentence that you wrote, they might get something completely different. There's a lot of context that we don't get from these ancient texts. We can literally translate them, but that doesn't mean that we understand those texts. And that doesn't mean that our translation is correct because we aren't understanding the context in which it was written because we weren't alive at that time.

Josh 36:22

I mean, that's what happened with a lot of the translations of the Bible is that we do a stamp translation on it, and there's tons of different authors of the Bible for sure, and each one has a different context, a different voice, and you lose all of that with a group of translators translating the whole thing. And it becomes very textbook when you read it instead of a story. You need a group of translators per author to truly harness what they were trying to say.

Travis 36:49

Yeah.

Josh 36:49

But yeah, it is lovely, it's exciting, it should be an epic movie or a TV show. But I don't know if it's true enough for me to fully commit.

SPEAKER_02 37:00

Okay.

Josh 37:00

We

Listener Feedback, Reviews, And Fan Mail

Josh 37:01

do want to know what you guys think. We also want feedback.

Travis 37:05

Or if there's something that you're interested in, let us know.

Josh 37:08

Yeah, nothing set in stone. No. You can send us fan mail. You can actually send like a voice note or a voicemail or whatever through fan mail. That'd be really fun. And now we're gonna read some of our fan mail and reviews. Oh, we so we had a review, huh?

Travis 37:23

We got fan mail? We got a review? Yeah. Five star though, right? Has to be five star, that's the rule.

Josh 37:29

It is a five-star review. This one's from Apple and it's from the Netherlands. And it says funny and interesting and well produced. Hey, those are good things. I'll take it.

Travis 37:41

Could we uh reveal who the reviewer was or it's Eva Van G. Thank you, Eva Van G.

Josh 37:47

Yeah. Eva or Eva, I don't know.

Travis 37:49

That would help. If you do give us a review, let us know how to pronounce your name. Obviously, we struggle with names, so that would be very helpful.

Josh 37:56

We do struggle with names.

Travis 37:58

Yep.

Josh 37:58

And because of our struggle, it makes me really insecure about it.

Travis 38:01

Uh unless you just want us to butcher your name and that's part of the fun for you, you sickos.

Josh 38:05

Well, there's people, I I knew a guy, his last name was spelled P-O-O-T. It's it should be poot.

Travis 38:12

Yeah, it should be.

Josh 38:13

It should be poot.

Travis 38:14

Uh-huh.

Josh 38:14

But he said it's pronounced pote.

Travis 38:16

Yeah, you know why? Because he was tired of having that last name. I believe that was probably like an audible. That family just decided they were done with being called the poot.

Josh 38:26

Yeah, they didn't want to be called poot.

Travis 38:27

Yeah, they're that's the poots.

Josh 38:28

Who'd want that?

Travis 38:29

Well, I just want people, if they are particular about the way their name is pronounced, just let us know.

Josh 38:35

Yeah.

Travis 38:35

And we'll be sensitive to that.

Josh 38:36

All right. This fan mail doesn't say who it's from. Do you think Travis grows stronger with every wrong answer? What a terrifying thought. Maybe let him win every once in a while.

Travis 38:47

Oh, that's so good. Okay. Seriously. Like, who comes up with our trivia? Why why don't I get to win more often? Uh, was that as as to as to me getting stronger? I do feel pretty weak after those. I feel like I have been read for filth every time we do trivia, so I don't think I'm getting stronger.

Josh 39:08

Did you write that, Travis? I did. You did? Yeah. You were trying to pretend to be a fan and send fan mail.

Travis 39:17

Yeah, because I didn't want to have I always feel bad about the section that we had just created. I just feel bad that it's a blank section, and then we ended up talking about whatever Josh is into for the week. So in order to make Josh feel good, that's true.

Josh 39:33

I like that you were trying to convince me to let you win. Also, that. While pretending to be a fan. I am a fan. I'm a fan of sympathy. I am too. Isn't that weird? No.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

Oh.

Josh 39:46

But yeah, that's what we got. If you guys want your fan mail read, send it. That's all you gotta do. The best way you guys can support us is through telling your friends, telling people. We don't advertise other than just word of mouth. We just tell people. So if you guys can be a part of that, that's the best way you can help us out. So now it is time for everyone's favorite, other than Travis.

Travis 40:11

Well, let's yeah, let's hold off on that, calling it everyone's favorite. I mean, if unless you like to listen to me squirm and get weaker.

Josh 40:19

I mean, I do.

Travis 40:20

As the weeks go in and out, then this is your favorite part, you sick-os. Like Samson and Yeah, it's like a Samson and yeah, this is exactly it. This is me getting weaker every week.

Baseline Quiz: Kecksburg UFO Incident

Josh 40:31

We're gonna do our baseline quiz.

Travis 40:35

Oh boy.

Josh 40:36

So our topic is Kecksburg. The Kecksburg UFO incident. I love it.

Travis 40:43

Mm-hmm. A berg full of Kex.

Josh 40:45

Yeah.

Travis 40:46

I wonder if that's a last name.

Josh 40:47

Maybe we'll find out. Yeah, we'll find out.

Travis 40:49

Maybe that question will forever be unanswered.

Josh 40:52

I love UFO incidents. So we'll just hop right into it. Where did the Kecksburg UFO incident take place? A Wales, B, Pennsylvania, C Montana, or D, Belgium? Right off the bat, the Berg reminded me of England or Wales. So I'm gonna say Wales.

Travis 41:11

I'm saying Pennsylvania.

Josh 41:12

Oh really?

Travis 41:13

Uh-huh.

Josh 41:14

Okay. Any reason?

Travis 41:15

Or just Berg, just meaning like town, and I believe it's German or like it's definitely European origin, and there's a lot of German, Eastern European immigrants. Dutch, a lot of Dutch in Pennsylvania.

Josh 41:31

Alright. Okay, so next one. When did the incident occur? We love these.

Travis 41:36

Yeah.

Josh 41:37

A, November 15th, 1982. B, December 9th, 1965, C, July 20th, 1949, or D October 4th, 1957. Oh, these are older. Other than the 82. I I'm gonna say October 4th, 1957. That's when things started getting wacky.

Travis 41:58

Spooky. It's right before spooky season. I'm gonna say November 15th.

Josh 42:01

Okay. Because it's close to my birthday.

Travis 42:04

That's why.

Josh 42:05

That's the only reason.

Travis 42:06

That's the only reason.

Josh 42:07

Okay. Next one. What shape was the object most commonly described as? A, a disc shape. B cylindrical. Uh C, acorn or D triangle?

Travis 42:17

An acorn shape. I think that's the first time we've seen. I guess maybe not. Because like acorn could be described as maybe bell-shaped. We've heard of bell-shaped phenomena.

Josh 42:26

I don't know what it is. I just I don't I don't know what it could be. I I'm just gonna guess and I'm gonna say an acorn because I haven't heard that.

Travis 42:36

I already clicked it. Acorn is what I have to.

Josh 42:38

Yes. We're going down together.

Travis 42:40

Yeah. Or up.

Josh 42:42

Or up, hopefully. Okay, next one. What did the military do to raise suspicion? A, no one seemed to care. B public press conference within an hour. C took the witnesses into custody, or D, immediate armed perimeter.

Travis 42:58

Jeez. I don't understand this question. What did the military do to raise suspicion?

Josh 43:03

So something happened, the military did something, and it's like, oh, that's weird. That's suspicious.

Travis 43:09

Are they was the military intending to raise suspicion?

Josh 43:13

I don't think so. It's just sometimes the military seems suspect in the way they act. Like if they didn't care, yeah, then that would be like, oh, that's weird. Or if they flooded the town like Roswell, where just tons of military came in, that was pretty suspicious.

Travis 43:30

I think there's only two on here that really would raise suspicion for me. I don't think if the military didn't care, that would not raise suspicion. I'm not expecting the military to comment and share their opinion on everything that happens. So that one wouldn't see that raise suspicion to me. A public press conference, that seems like a pretty open that's what I would want to happen. That wouldn't raise suspicion. I would be like, oh, they are sharing information.

Josh 43:55

Right.

Travis 43:55

And I'm just working out my answers.

Josh 43:58

I know I I agree. It's either took the way Witnesses into custody right away, which would be like, oh, that's weird.

Travis 44:03

Yeah.

Josh 44:04

Or the immediate arm perimeter.

Travis 44:06

Right.

Josh 44:06

I'm going to say the immediate arm perimeter, because that sounds like a military thing to do.

Travis 44:11

I mean both are very much.

Josh 44:13

Yeah.

Travis 44:13

I'm going to say take witnesses into custody, just because it's a sh the show and we've got to have a little bit of drama.

Josh 44:21

Okay. Next one. Where was the object reportedly transported after recovery? Is it A Wright Patterson Air Force Base? B Area 51. C Los Alamos Laboratory or D Roswell Army Airfield? I'm going to say Wright Patterson Air Force Base.

Travis 44:40

I feel like this is something that we maybe should know just because there's it really comes down to just a handful of places where these items end up.

Josh 44:53

Right. And I I don't think it's Roswell Army Airfield. I don't think so either. Los Alamos maybe. Yeah. I mean, it could be Area 51. Wright Patterson Air Force Base. I know a lot about Area 51 and Los Alamos. I don't know a lot about Wright Patterson Air Force Base, but I know it's important.

Travis 45:13

Okay.

Josh 45:13

And I don't think they would deliver it straight to Area 51.

Travis 45:16

I'm going to say Los Alamos lab. Just because if I wanted to send something for a further investigation, I'm going to be looking at something with laboratory in the title.

Josh 45:26

I guess that's true. That makes sense. I'll stick with what I said though. Sure. Okay. Last one. Which government agency was sued over missing records? Weird. Okay. A the DOD.

Travis 45:39

Department of Defense.

Josh 45:40

B the CIA. C NASA or D FBI. Ooh. I mean, I'm going to say DOD. I feel like the CIA isn't going to be releasing documents ever.

Travis 45:54

You don't think the CIA is going to be releasing documents? I think the CIA releases documents all the time. FBI, too. That's usually has a time limit on it. So like the Nixon investigation into Watergate had a bunch of files. Those, I believe, were handled by the FBI. And part of that release schedule was like 20 years after his death or something like that. So they get released.

Josh 46:14

Well, I have no idea.

Travis 46:14

But we're talking about missing files.

Josh 46:16

But missing, I mean, come on.

Travis 46:18

I mean, if you how would you know that they're missing?

Josh 46:20

No, it's it's not missing. It's they destroyed them.

Travis 46:24

Or they just didn't release them. But how do you know that something's missing?

Josh 46:28

That's true.

Travis 46:29

In order for you to know that there are missing files, you have to know that there are missing files, that there's something missing. You have to know like all of the files that should be there.

Josh 46:38

Like Bob Lazar when George Knapp called Los Alamos and asked if he worked there, and they said we don't have documentation of him working here. They could be looking at the documentation at that moment and just being told to say no. Yeah. We don't know. I'm gonna say FBI.

Travis 46:55

Okay. I am also gonna say FBI.

Josh 46:59

All right. So we are gonna submit and view our accuracy.

Quiz Answers And Next Topic Setup

Josh 47:03

Oh. Okay. Where did the Kecksburg UFO incident take place? I said Wales.

Travis 47:08

I said Pennsylvania.

Josh 47:10

And it was Pennsylvania.

Travis 47:12

Nailed it.

Josh 47:12

It was not Wales. No. So I was way off. When did the incident occur? I said October 4th, 1957. What'd you say?

Travis 47:21

Uh November 15th, 82.

Josh 47:24

Oh, it was December 9th, 1965. No way of knowing that. Okay, what shape was the object most commonly described as? I said acorn.

Travis 47:34

You I said acorn. Yeah.

Josh 47:36

Well, that was correct. Yeah. Yeah, an acorn in our Rolodex now. What did the military do to raise suspicion? I said immediate arm perimeter.

Travis 47:46

I said took the witness into custody, and you were right.

Josh 47:49

Yep, it was immediate arm perimeter. Yeah. Where was the object reportedly transported after recovery? I said Wright Patterson Air Force Base. Mm-hmm.

Travis 47:58

You were right. I said Los Alamos Lab.

Josh 48:01

Yeah. All right. And then last one, which government agency was sued over missing records? I said FBI.

Travis 48:09

I said FBI.

Josh 48:10

It was NASA.

Travis 48:11

NASA.

Josh 48:12

That's interesting. So it could be disorganization or a cover-up, potentially.

Travis 48:17

Yeah. I mean, what do you think?

Josh 48:20

I think cover up. It's gonna be a cover up.

Travis 48:22

Yeah, classic.

Josh 48:24

Oh, come on. Don't you know? I'm excited to get to the what is it, the meat and bones, the meat and beans.

Travis 48:29

Yep. That old saying, let's get down to the meat and beans of it. Yeah. Uh down to the bones and boots.

Josh 48:38

Yep. I'm excited to hear about this. I still don't really have a good idea of what this is about, but an acorn in Pennsylvania, and then the military surrounded the perimeter. Sounds like it was recovered, the acorn.

Travis 48:54

They recovered an acorn. Wow, that sounds like big news.

Josh 48:57

The object was some. So I think an acorn was flying in the sky. It was captured, sent to Wright Patterson Air Force Base, files went missing, and NASA was sued. Okay, that's what we're gonna talk about next episode. Pretty good. I'm excited. All right. Well,

Final Thanks And Sign Off

Josh 49:11

thank you for listening, and thank you, Jordan. You're amazing. Put our notes together, chose this topic, and chose next episode's topic.

Travis 49:19

What does that look like to you?

Josh 49:20

An acorn.

Travis 49:22

Okay. You're right.

Josh 49:24

It looks like an acorn. Is that what it is?

Travis 49:26

It looks like the tip of a penis.

Josh 49:29

Oh, yeah, I can see that.

Travis 49:30

It's even flesh colored.

Josh 49:32

Is that what we're gonna be talking about?

Travis 49:34

No, I just looked up tip of penis, flesh-colored tip of penis.

Josh 49:37

You're just showing me penises?

Travis 49:40

No. I was showing you the Wikipedia for Keksburg.

Josh 49:43

Oh, interesting.

Travis 49:43

That picture's right at the top, though.

Josh 49:45

All right. Well, we will chat at you next time. Okay, bye.