1 Corinthians 14 Discussion

If church feels like a fog machine for the soul, 1 Corinthians 14 brings you back to earth. We sit down with Paul’s most practical guidance on spiritual gifts and ask a blunt question: does what we do in public worship actually build people up, or does it just sound spiritual? From prophecy to tongues to interpretation, the thread is clarity. If people cannot understand what’s being said, they cannot be strengthened by it. 

We also tackle one of the hardest lines in the chapter: “women should keep silent in the churches.” Rather than dodging it, we work through how Scripture uses the same words in different ways across contexts, and why “prophesying” can refer broadly to worship and singing while still restricting authoritative teaching in the gathered assembly. Along the way, we pull in historic commentary, talk about accountability in preaching, and explain why “test everything” is meant to protect the church without despising spiritual gifts. 

The big takeaway is simple and searching: God is not a God of confusion but of peace, so our services should sound like love, order, and understandable truth. And we never forget the outsider, because Paul assumes an unbeliever might walk in, hear the Word clearly, feel convicted, and confess that God is really among His people. If that’s the kind of church you want to be part of, subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find the show.

Text us at 737-231-0605 with any questions.

Transcript

Gifts That Build Up Others

Pastor Plek 0:10

And welcome back to a chapter day. Keeps the devil away. I'm Pastor Plek. This is Pastor Holland. We are talking First Corinthians chapter 14. We're gonna outline it. We're gonna observe it, interpret, and then apply it so that you can live out your week of worship today and every day. All right, so verses uh one through five, we get into uh the desire for um the spiritual gifts, especially for prophecy, even over tongues. Then verses six through twelve, the the fact that clarity is necessary for edification of the church. Uh many languages exist, but meaning has to be understood. Then verses 13 through 19, if anyone speaks in tongues, tongues must be interpreted. Then uh verses 20 through 25, tongues and prophecy are a sign for un tongues function as a sign for unbelievers. Prophecy reveals the heart and leads to conviction, and proper prophecy causes unbelievers to confess God is truly among you. Then you have verses 26 through 33, orderly worship in the church. Uh, everything has to be done for the building up, and there's limits placed on speakers and tongues and prophets, and there's inf interpretation is required. God's not a God of confusion, but of peace. The spirit is always under the prophet's control. Then you got verses 34 through 36, um, order and then the submission in the assembly, and then verses 37 through 40, final instructions about the spiritual gifts. Basically, do everything in order. All right. What observations are you seeing here?

Pastor Holland 1:50

All right. Main one is that public gatherings and public speech has its own set of rules. Yes. There's stuff that is fine to do privately or in your home that's not um fine to do when you're gathered together publicly in church. Right. And that's the main idea. And he's saying, okay, here's because God is a God of order and a God of peace, um, there's some rules for how you conduct yourselves in church service so that things are not chaotic, out of order, confusing, um, or distracting. The whole point of gathering together is so that each member can be built up.

Pastor Plek 2:28

I really think the thing I love about this is church is designed not just for believers. Which I was sort of like when I thought about that, I was sort of surprised. What do you what do you mean? So he's saying an unbeliever has the potential to just walk on in. Oh, yeah, yeah. So the design is that unbelievers would be gathered around the believers. And I thought that that was a cool thought that like a church or a uh a church service of like where you are hearing the word proclaimed and singing and doing things is meant for believers primarily, but the audience is also for non-believers.

Pastor Holland 3:09

Well, I would say that, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I would say the audience is primarily believers, but you ought to expect um or be considerate of all right, if outsiders, if unbelievers come in, how might this be helpful to them as well? And so you don't order your whole service around the unbeliever, right? You order it toward the building up of believers, but you're mindful of if an unbeliever comes in, we want him to encounter God and get saved. So I think it's really interesting that he says um tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers. So this is where But then he also says, if someone walks in, they don't understand anything. Well, okay, so think about what he's saying. Well, here's here's my interpretation. Yeah Tongues are given primarily for evangelism um to unbelievers who speak a different language. So when Paul, when not Paul, Jesus told the apostles, go make disciples of all nations, how are they supposed to do that when they don't know all the languages? There's there he's sending them to places where they don't speak the language. And so being able to speak in tongues is you're able to give the gospel in a language that you didn't know. So you're saying that there would be multiple languages listened to in a church service? No, no, no, no. That's what I'm saying. That that's why tongues is not really fit for a church service unless you have an interpreter right there.

Pastor Plek 4:33

So you could have interpretation, and that would be a plausible church service that was in the early church.

Pastor Holland 4:40

Yeah, right. If you have someone, but and so his point is though, if you're speaking in tongues and no one's interpreting it, you just have all these different languages, and someone comes in, they go, This is crazy.

Pastor Plek 4:51

Okay, now are you seeing this as a um how big of I mean this is we don't know how big the church was, but I'm assuming it's large because there's different sects within the church. It's not like the technical.

Pastor Holland 5:02

I follow Paul, I follow Pablo.

Pastor Plek 5:04

So you've got a maybe let's just call it at least 50. I don't know. But anyway, so that you're walking into a church service where this is why I sometimes have a hard time with it being a different language, because if it if it was, then you'd have to have an interpretation ongoing for that person.

Pastor Holland 5:21

Right? That's why I'm saying tongues isn't really fit for he says if you're gonna do it, uh only have two or three do it one at a time with an interpretation.

Pastor Plek 5:33

Because I kind of thought that thought of that as a word from the Lord that came and then it was spoken in either an ecstatic speech or you know, different language they didn't know, and then somebody there who did know that language go, like, aha, that is German, and they spreck in the Deutsch.

Pastor Holland 5:52

Well, okay, so verse 27 if any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, each in turn, let someone interpret. So you're not allowed to have more than three people speak in a different tongue, and each one has to have someone interpreting. He says, if there's no one to interpret, let them keep silent. Speak to yourself and God. If you are, you know, want to pray to God in German at an English speaking church, do it, but keep it between yourself and God.

Pastor Plek 6:16

Right.

Pastor Holland 6:16

But if you're gonna do it publicly, um, then it there needs to be someone interpreting, otherwise, you're not helping anyone in the church.

Pastor Plek 6:24

Yeah, I I I like that. That's why I have a hard time with that as being a different language, because then the person probably spoke that. Well, maybe they didn't know it was German, and they're just like, I have this urge to speak in German right now.

Pastor Holland 6:35

Well, that's what I'm saying. Like in Acts 2, they started just speaking in languages that they didn't know that were understandable by you know the people that were out there. So that that's where I go, tongues can be helpful in evangelism, preaching the gospel in languages you don't know. But when you bring that into a church service without an interpretation, it's just distracting rather than helpful.

Pastor Plek 6:56

So I think that's my interpretation. So yeah, my interpretation would be like you have a certain part of the service where it's like, does anybody have a word from the Lord? And then someone's like, shit about a hama, shit badahama, and then like, ah, aha. Uh the Lord says that he has great love for you. And everyone's like, mmm. And then next person goes, like, uh ata beta bada bada bada bah. And then next person goes, oh uh, that means uh the the Lord This is your interpretation. Yeah, that's okay. I could see that as equally as like some, like someone just doesn't they they don't know if anyone needs to hear German and they don't know it's German, they're just like have a that's why because if if it was okay, but uh he says if there's no one to interpret, let them keep silent.

Pastor Holland 7:37

So you have to know that someone's gonna be able to interpret it before you say before you get it.

Pastor Plek 7:41

Hey, um so I what I have seen in the shit a bahana services is uh bada Toyota, shit about a Honda. Yeah, is is uh someone goes, they go shit about, and then someone goes, Do I have interpretation? No, that's not from the Lord, and they move on.

Pastor Holland 8:01

Fair, I I still would say that's not quite what he's saying here. Fair if there's no one to interpret, keep silent. Okay, fair enough. Um, so you gotta know that there's someone who has interpretation.

Pastor Plek 8:11

It's like, and that's where maybe you have like the hey, I'm the interpreter guy of whatever language you want to go with. Okay.

The Purpose Of Tongues

Pastor Holland 8:18

All right, here's one more controversial. Okay, yeah.

Pastor Plek 8:21

Why not just hit Let's get them all.

Pastor Holland 8:23

Let's go BAM. 34 and 35. Women should keep silent in the churches.

Pastor Plek 8:26

All right, and how do you reconcile that with 1 Corinthians 11, where women are to wear head coverings when they're prophesying? Great question, Pastor Pleckinpole.

Pastor Holland 8:35

So my interpretation, which is uh The interpretation. No, I'm not I'm not gonna say the interpretation. I'm gonna say it was John Gill, John Lightfoot, Matthew Henry, Charles Spurgeon. Pretty much everybody. A lot of guys pre-second wave feminism, pre-1960s, you know, um said that prayer and prophesying in 1 Corinthians 11 primarily referred to singing psalms. Is that like a merism for that? A merism. What a great word. Um, do you want to explain what a merism is?

Pastor Plek 9:06

Merism is like a uh like a simple saying that describes another thing that everyone broadly understands.

Pastor Holland 9:12

Two ideas brought together to give uh or also it's also a synecdoche, yeah, a part that describes the whole. Um prayer and prophesy, yeah, could refer to just worshiping. Um and uh so if you think of if you're like, what how does prophesying mean singing or worshiping? If you look in the old testament, um Exodus 15, Miriam, uh uh Moses's sister is called a prophetess. She doesn't um give some divine word from the Lord, uh uh foretelling the future or something. She sings, she's a singer. Uh 1 Chronicles 25. Let me make sure this is right. Um, yeah, 1 Chronicles 25, names Asaph, He-Man, and Jedathun.

Pastor Plek 9:55

The best is He-Man.

Pastor Holland 9:56

He-Man.

Pastor Plek 9:57

Uh Could be Heyman, but He-Man's way better. He-Man.

Pastor Holland 10:02

Masters of the universe, is that yeah. Um it says for the ministry of prophesying, accompanied by harps, lyres, and cymbals. Okay. And these are guys who wrote psalms. These are the psalmists who um uh their their prophesying is singing. If you look up in like a Hebrew dictionary um or a Greek dictionary, prophesying, one definition is singing holy songs to God. So I would say um 1 Corinthians 11 is saying both men and women participate in corporate worship by singing songs to God, worshiping God, um, and you know, hearing the word, saying amen. Every member of the congregation participates in that. But in 1 Corinthians 14, here, we now have um uh prophesying in terms of teaching. It's very clear when he says um uh verse 31, you can all prophesy one by one so that all may learn, right? This is teaching prophesying.

Pastor Plek 10:59

Right. So there's multiple ways to prophesy. Exactly.

Pastor Holland 11:02

So you're saying in the general sense of praying and singing, everybody does that. But then in the more technical, specific um type of prophesying of teaching, um, giving divine revelation or interpreting divine revelation, that's reserved for um the leaders of the church who we know are restricted to godly qualified men.

Pastor Plek 11:22

Right. So at this point, were they saying, so at our church, we kind of have like one part where you can have an encouragement in between the second and third song, and then you have the sermon, and then you have uh the call to communion, and then you have a call to prayer. So there's different speaking parts, which you could all kind of say was prop would be some sort of prophetic utterance, not uh foretelling, but forth telling. Fair enough.

Pastor Holland 11:49

Yeah, um, so here this I think this is a helpful commentary. This is John Gill on 1 Corinthians 14. What year is John Gill? 34. John Gill, um he was he died in 1771. I don't know what year he wrote his commentary. I think before the end of his life. 1700s. Um so on the part where it says, um, for it is not permitted unto them to speak for the women. Here's here's his commentary. That is, in public assemblies in the church of God, they might not speak with tongues, nor prophesy, or preach, or teach the word. All speaking is not prohibited. They might speak their experiences to the church. So, like your testimony, give an account of the work of God upon their souls, again, testimony. They might speak to one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, um, or speak as an evidence in any case at a church meeting, but not in such sort as it carried um direction, instruction, government, and authority. Um, and so he's saying the type of speech that Paul is prohibiting here is teaching, authority and teaching, which would fit with 1 Timothy 2. I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man. Um so it's that's that's what John Gill says, and I think is a help. That was like kind of the common interpretation of this text um for the majority of church history.

Pastor Plek 13:16

Okay, so but we do have what's hard, I think, is you have the same word prophecy in verse sorry, in chapter 11 and here in chapter 14, one has women speaking. Clearly, you're saying it's a marism. Uh, but here it's it's saying women aren't to speak at all. But it seems like, and this is where women should keep silent at churches, for they're not permitted to speak, but should be in submission as the law also says. Yeah, if there's anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. It seems like they would be asking questions. Is that is that a fair thing to say there? Um, I think he's prohibiting both teaching and asking questions. Right. So I think he he contrasts speaking with being in submission. Right. And he says it's shameful for a woman to speak in church. Yeah.

Pastor Holland 14:02

Not just in a uh this is where it's like it's not shameful to greet your neighbor, say amen, sing worship songs, none of that.

Pastor Plek 14:10

When he's saying authoritative Exactly pro uh in a like, I want to forth tell you, encourage like um that kind of teaching time where they're because this is about learning.

Pastor Holland 14:21

Yeah, authoritative instruction. And the the reason is that God has entrusted that to godly qualified men, and this is what has been, you know, it says prophesying could also be singing, and they could do that.

Pastor Plek 14:31

Yes, right. Right. So I think I think it's sometimes it's weird, it's like the same word, but it it what it has a clearly different meaning because one is talking about learning something and the other is talking about prayer or corporate prayer or or worship.

Pastor Holland 14:45

Yeah, and this is it's not, I mean, it's not that confusing. We do this all the time. We use words that have um general and special meanings. So, like elder, for instance. Yeah. Elder could just mean an older person in the church, and Paul uses it that way in First Timothy. Um, but he also in First Timothy uses a special definition, elder, the office of elder, meaning a pastor um in the church. So we it's it's common to have words that have general meanings and specific meanings, and that in context you determine, you know, what what each one means.

Pastor Plek 15:18

Yeah.

Pastor Holland 15:18

So unless you're willing to say Paul tells women prophesy in chapter 11, and then says, never mind, no, you can't in chapter 14. Is it more likely that he contradicts himself and gives women something and then takes it away, or that he meant prophesy in terms of singing, but not in terms of teaching? That that makes more sense.

Pastor Plek 15:38

That makes sense to me, uh, honestly. It like leave the leave the preaching and teaching and uh to the authorized leaders of the church.

Pastor Holland 15:45

There you go. Yeah.

Pastor Plek 15:47

Okay. Um, all right, let's get into that. Was a lot of explanation of observation. First Corinthians is wild. It's wild. What about the nature of man? What are we getting into here? Um We are how about we're prone to disorder?

Pastor Holland 16:00

Yeah, right, exactly. That's what this whole chapter is trying to deal with. Um, we're prone to disorder, we're prone to um think about how to build myself up rather than build other people up. Yep. Um, so that's why Paul has to give all these instructions. He's saying this is when you get together as a church, this is not really about you being glorified. This is about Jesus being glorified and your brothers and sisters being edified.

Pastor Plek 16:23

Nice. How about people need to understand truth to be transformed? Otherwise, you have no idea what's going on. Yeah. Um, how about character God?

Women Speaking And Church Order

Pastor Holland 16:36

God is a God of order, not a god is a god of peace.

Pastor Plek 16:41

Yes. Um how about God reveals the secrets of the human heart through his word? Is that fair? Yeah. Um what about I love that. Um the part that I was I was gonna get back to here, like the uh let's see. The spirit is always under the prophet's control. Where where was that? Wait, am I what? Let me see if I can. Or the prophet's under the spirit's control. No, the spirit is like, meaning like you if you have a word, but it's not the right time, keep your mouth shut. Let me make sure I'm This is where I'm I hate it when I'm like Yeah, 1432. Look at verse 32.

Pastor Holland 17:29

Spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. Yeah. Oh, okay. So I thought you were saying the Holy Spirit is under the prophet's control.

Pastor Plek 17:37

But you're saying the spirit Yeah, like I have like I I need to share the thing. Uh or I I have um an unction.

Pastor Holland 17:47

Right? Okay. I when I read 32, uh, the spirits of sub of prophets are subject to prophets. I think that's saying that um uh if someone, if you have one prophet giving a word from God, a teaching, you know, then that's gonna be judged by the other prophets.

Pastor Plek 18:05

Um it's probably way better. I've always seen that as I think that I've memorized it in the NIV, which is the spirit is all the spirit's always sub uh subject to the or the how is it go? Uh I have to look it up now.

Pastor Holland 18:23

Um, so here's uh back to John Gill. Here's what John Gill says. Um, meaning that the explanations prophets give of passages of scriptures and the revelations they declare are subject to the examination, judgment, and censure of other prophets who have a right to try and judge them according to the scriptures.

Pastor Plek 18:44

Man, that's way better. Yeah, I I've I've misinterpreted that for a long time. I always I always thought of that as uh the spirit of the prophets are subject to the control of prophets, meaning you have control of your own self.

Pastor Holland 18:55

Yeah, okay. Well, that that's true too. You have self-control.

Pastor Plek 18:58

I like it better. What you're saying is hey, when you have something from the spirit, bring it to the other prophets, if you will, and so that they can weigh it, which is what he says here with uh the leaders of the church, right?

Pastor Holland 19:13

Yeah, exactly. And and this goes along with um 1 Thessalonians 5. So he he says, Do not despise prophecies, but test everything. Right. Hold fast to what is good, abstain from every form of evil. And so, how do you test everything? Well, with the authoritative leaders of your church measuring what is said against the word of God.

Pastor Plek 19:38

It's good. Yeah. Okay. Um, let's get to some application. Okay. All right. So application we have sin to avoid, a promise to claim, example to follow, command to obey, a knowledge to believe. What you got here? Um, I mean. I got one. How about avoid having just spiritual experiences or um or recognition of your spiritual gift without considering how you're gonna build others up? Yeah.

Pastor Holland 20:05

I I think that's huge. The the again, the big purpose of this whole thing is that if there's anything in your service that is not building people up in their faith, what's the point of having that in your service? Um and I would say uh an application is that um have godly qualified men as the pastors and preachers of your church. Nice. Um yeah. Uh I think what that means not only having godly qualified male pastors and preachers, I think to go against that, to have women, women, pastors, and preachers is to go against what this chapter teaches. Nice. But also, this this involves more than just pastors and and teachers. It involves husbands and fathers. When he says if there's anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. That's a big deal for the husbands. You gotta you ought to be theologically sharp. You gotta have sound doctrine. If your wife is like, hey, what did this mean? And you're like, I don't know, then you're kind of failing at what Paul is. What if you're married to an unbeliever? Yeah, well, obviously that's not ideal. I know.

Pastor Plek 21:13

Right. So it's like dad gum. Like that. So the you have women there, and I want like they want to learn. Yeah. And they're like, now, granted, don't interrupt the church service. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that's what they really I think that was the the probably the main issue is like, hey, this isn't a time for question and answer. This is a time to hear from the Lord.

Pastor Holland 21:32

And also when you think of if you have a lot of if you have a church with a lot of single women or single mothers where there's not a husband, not a father, um, expect to have to do a lot of pastoral teaching throughout the week. You know, you might you can't teach everything on Sunday. And if they have questions, they don't have a husband to ask. And so as a pastor, I think you ought to um like, you know, leading a community group in your home where you can say, Hey, what questions did you have from the sermon? Let me try to unpack those for you.

Pastor Plek 21:58

Yeah, talking about God's word with Your spouse is huge. Yeah. Um, all right. What about uh commando obey? Uh pursue love and do everything in order. Amen. Yeah, I really feel like that was a big one. Do everything in order. That that order is from you know, men and women, the order is from like orderly, like one at a time versus all speaking at the same time. How do you feel about uh Korean prayer where everyone just prays at the same time? Do you feel like that goes against this, or is that an orderly thing of chaos?

Pastor Holland 22:31

It's an orderly thing of chaos. It feels you know, chaotic and it's like you don't really understand what's going on. But again, he's he's talking specifically of church services. If you're doing that in your house, uh I don't know. I mean, I've seen church services knock it out. Yeah. Um I don't know. I maybe there's a way you could teach through it. Maybe the order is saying, hey, we're gonna do this. You're not gonna understand everything that's being said, but be encouraged that prayers are being prayed. I would lean on the side of don't have anything in your service that's not intelligible to the people there. Right. That would be my preference.

Pastor Plek 23:08

Yeah. Um, all right. What about promise to claim? Uh I was just looking at verse 25. The secrets of your heart are disclosed. I love the when the non-believer, look at this. God knows the secrets of your heart.

Pastor Holland 23:24

Yeah.

Pastor Plek 23:25

And you fall on your face before him, worship God, and declare he really is among you. I I when I see that happening at our church, there's nothing more encouraging than that.

Pastor Holland 23:35

It's it's so awesome. Yeah. And so be mindful. I think this applies to preachers and pastors for how you preach sermons, but also for just members of a church. Expect unbelievers and outsiders to show up and be ready to evangelize.

Testing Prophecy And Self Control

Pastor Plek 23:52

And get ready for them to fall on their face. Yeah. I love it. Um, all right. Hey, thanks so much for joining us. We'll see you next time on Chapter A Day.