2 Corinthians 5 Discussion

Death, depression, and everyday suffering have a way of shrinking our vision until all we can see is what hurts right now. 2 Corinthians 5 refuses to let us stay there. We talk through Paul’s picture of our bodies as a fragile tent, then lift our eyes to the Christian hope that is bigger than “going to heaven someday”: bodily resurrection, a real eternal dwelling, and life swallowed up by life.

We also get honest about the in-between. What happens when a Christian dies? Does soul sleep make sense? Paul’s words about being away from the body and at home with the Lord lead us into the comfort of the intermediate state and the even better promise of a glorified resurrection body like Jesus’. Along the way, we connect “walk by faith not by sight” to real life, including how to endure pain without minimizing it and why longing to be with Jesus never gives us the right to despise the gift of this life.

Then we hit the center of the chapter: the ministry of reconciliation. We unpack new creation, the call to live for Christ instead of ourselves, and the stunning news that God does not count our sin against us. We talk about the Holy Spirit as God’s guarantee and the great exchange of 2 Corinthians 5:21, where Jesus takes our sin and we receive the righteousness of God. That’s what makes us ambassadors for Christ with a clear aim: to please him.

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Transcript

Welcome And Chapter Overview

Pastor Plek 0:10

And welcome back to a chapter a day. Keeps the devil away. I'm Pastor Plank. That's Pastor Holland. We're talking 2 Corinthians chapter 5. We're gonna outline it, observe it, interpret it, and apply it so that you can fully live out the truth of what it means to be an ambassador for Christ today. All right, 2 Corinthians 5, verse 1 through 10 talk about our heavenly dwelling, just a contrast between our temporary earthly bodies, but ultimately our eternal home. But it's actually in the same body, which we'll talk about. Then verses 11 through 21, it's the ministry of reconciliation. Verses 11 through 13, Paul has this motivation by the fear of the Lord and the love for others. 14 and 15, it's Christ's love compels believers. 1670 is just this new perspective. No longer viewing people by worldly standards, but those people in Christ as new creation. And then, man, this God reconciling the world to himself through Christ. You just got to lean into verse 18 through 21. Love these verses. Let's talk about some of your observations. What do you see here?

The Intermediate State Without Soul Sleep

Pastor Holland 1:08

Okay. So the tent that he brings up here is talking about the body that we have right now, right? And so um we have this building from God, uh, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. Um, and he says, In this tent we groan longing to put on our heavenly dwelling. Um, and this I just think this statement's really interesting. Verse three, if indeed by putting it on we may not be found naked. So the goal is Don't be naked. Naked meaning we don't want like we don't want to just be bodiless spirits forever. Right. What we want is the glorified resurrected body, the the same body that Jesus has now. Um, Jesus did not stay a disembodied spirit, you know, forever. He was he had a bodily resurrection. He has a body right now, but it's a perfect glorified body. And we too, you know, when we're raised from the dead, we'll have a glorio a glorified resurrection body.

Pastor Plek 2:08

So do you think that there is an intermediate spiritual body that you get when you die?

Pastor Holland 2:14

Uh an intermediate spiritual body different than just like your spirit itself?

Pastor Plek 2:18

Uh well. So you just kind of say like you don't have a I mean how I guess you're just self-you're like a self-awareness.

Pastor Holland 2:26

I don't know. Yeah, a spirit and a body, and your body dies, and your spirit goes to heaven to be with the Lord if you're in Christ. That's what he says.

Pastor Plek 2:34

To be present with the Lord.

Pastor Holland 2:35

But there is what do you read? So that's the intermediate state of being a disembodied spirit. Naked. Naked spirit. Naked.

Pastor Plek 2:41

Is that a good way of putting that?

Pastor Holland 2:43

Um and uh meaning, yeah, bodiless. And but you don't stay that way forever. Like I kind of when I was growing up, before I really, you know, read the Bible and understood um some of this stuff, I always thought it was like you go to heaven and you're just a spirit in heaven forever, up in the clouds, you know, and you have a halo and you have wings and just whatever I saw on cartoons. You can fly. Yeah. But what he's saying here is that's an intermediate state, and it's good. It's a good thing to be present with the Lord in heaven, your spirit. But what's even better is the future state of a resurrection glorified body.

Pastor Plek 3:18

Where you get your current body. Like, this is where it's like your body is good, and we we know it's good is because it's eternal, meaning like God is gonna raise your body. Let's say even if you're burned to death, he'll restore all the ashes. And I don't know what scars you get to see. The one scars that Jesus kept were the ones that put him on the cross. Otherwise, you know, all the you know, he wasn't filleted when um they all filleted, meaning like his beat down with all the scars of that. But what they did see was the scars that saved us. Right. Um, and so I don't know what that means for us. I think we'll be able to be recognized as our own person. Like you don't get like a you don't get to be a better looking version of yourself. We don't know. That's very true. Maybe you get like a, you know, I've always wanted to be somebody else. No, but you get your body, it's you, right? It's distinctly you. Um and and it's gonna be uh skin, it's gonna be bone, but it's glorified, which means it's immortal.

Pastor Holland 4:12

Yeah. Right. Yep. And it can't never to die again. Yeah, never to die. No sin, no sickness. But it's this is like my favorite thing to talk with my kids about. We love talking about what it's gonna be like in heaven and whether or not you can like jump from a tall building and just survive, or whether you just wouldn't have to be a good thing. Is it kind of like living Minecraft world all the time? Yeah, that's exactly what we talk about, actually.

Pastor Plek 4:34

What is it gonna be like? So I think what do you think about this idea of soul sleep? Because it says absent from the body, present with the Lord. So I think that means there's no such thing as soul sleep.

Pastor Holland 4:45

Yeah, right. No soul sleep. When you die, your body goes in the ground, or you know, and your spirit goes to be with the Lord. Um the idea that your spirit goes to be with the Lord and that you're present with him. That's what he that's what he says here, right?

Pastor Plek 5:03

Um the body, present with the Lord.

Pastor Holland 5:05

Yeah. Which where's the verse? Um at home with the Lord. Verse eight. We would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. We would rather be. This is similar to like Philippians 1, you know, to live is Christ, to die is gain. Um, I would rather be with Christ in heaven. Um, that's better than living in this broken symphony.

Pastor Plek 5:29

For your sake, which it's wild to think my favorite thing and be with Jesus means not alive. Most people are like, everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die. But here is Paul, he wants Jesus.

Pastor Holland 5:41

Yeah. And so he's saying, but it's better for me, again, this is Philippians 1, but the similar idea here. It's better for me to remain alive because of this ministry that God has given me to lead many more people to Jesus. Yeah. Um, so yeah, no soul sleep. You go straight to Jesus and and then you wait from heaven for his return where you get your resurrection body. Right.

Walking By Faith With Courage

Pastor Plek 5:59

Um, and I love this is the classic Billy Blanks. I don't know if anyone remembers that. It's like ancient, but uh back when Taibo was a thing, you'd see this all the time in his Tai Bo videos, which was like Tai Bo. Isn't that wild? Wow, what a big thing. We don't walk by uh sight, we walk by faith. And I love that aspect of like uh in our bodies, in our physical bodies, we aim to please God and we walk by faith, not by sight. Um, and uh what do you think about just Paul having Christ's love but fear the Lord? Are those things uh antithetical or counterintuitive? Like it feels weird to have them both be there because I think usually we think of fear, fear of God, like I'm trembling, like God don't strike me down. Then you have this love of God, like oh, he's warm and cuddly, but he's both. Um and I that's why I think of God as a great father. You fear your dad in some ways because he is that brings the discipline, but you love your dad, and he uh if if you had a great relationship with your dad, then he he loves you and he wants the best for you, and he's always on in your corner, um, but you don't want to disappoint him, which is I think that's a healthy thing.

Pastor Holland 7:09

Yeah. Yeah. Um I love that. Yeah, both of those things, I mean they're they're connected. Yeah, they're very much connected.

Pastor Plek 7:16

Uh what else do you see, observation-wise?

Pastor Holland 7:19

Um I love I think uh verse 13 is funny. We're if we're beside ourselves, it's for God. If we're in our right mind, it's for you.

Pastor Plek 7:29

Yeah.

Pastor Holland 7:29

Um what do you what do you what is he talking about when he says if we're beside ourselves?

Pastor Plek 7:33

Like, are we crazy? Uh I think that's like it's for God. Like, if you think we're nuts, then I don't really care what you think. I'm doing this for the Lord. But if you're getting something out of this, cool. It's for you.

Fear Of The Lord And Love

Pastor Holland 7:43

Yeah. That's funny. Um, yeah, when he says, uh, so that you may be able to answer those who boast about outward appearance and not about what's in the heart. And um, you know, he's he's kind of he's saying that like maybe he doesn't have this great outward appearance because he's not super wealthy and um successful in in the same way that again the super apostles were, um, but his heart is a heart that loves and fears God. Right. And so he wants to make sure that that's what they understand about his ministry.

Pastor Plek 8:14

Yeah, that's really good. Um, how about um uh I love this fact that he calls us ambassadors for Christ. And I think this is where as dispense I'm as a dispensationalist, like someone who believes in the premillennial um rapture that when Christ returns, he comes, takes up all the kingdom, and we get to be with him, and then uh the tribulation happens, and the Jews come in and Israel has become one, and then we all join one big party. Um I think this is where we're like my kingdom that I'm representing isn't of this world, it is of the kingdom of heaven. However, as a representative of heaven, you want to bring the values of the kingdom of heaven, you want to influence politics toward the kingdom of heaven. Uh, and so I think that's where maybe us as us, as being me, uh, as a dispensational, our history may have not been super great on leaning into our role as an ambassador of heaven to impact um the entire world with the love of Jesus.

Pastor Holland 9:18

There you go. All right. Um yeah, for me as a non-dispensationalist, um this idea of being ambassadors for Christ, you know, I I think we both agree just on the idea that we have a responsibility to proclaim Christ. Um, even if we have a different, you know, understanding of how things are gonna shake out in the end. Uh well, toward the end. In the end, we agree. Jesus comes back and there's Jesus a new creation. Um but towards the end, we may disagree on how things kind of shake out, but um we agree that uh that all Christians are called to um be ambassadors for Christ and to seek to influence um the world around us as much as we can to be ordered under the word of God, right? Love that. Um yeah.

Pastor Plek 10:03

All right, let's get into some truths about the nature of man. Um, how about just the simple fact that human beings uh in our earthly body are mortal? Like we will die. We are we have a temporary life here that God permits for a season, and then ultimately there is a permanence either into um darkness and sadness or glory uh with Jesus. And there's like just two sections either with him or without him.

Pastor Holland 10:34

Yeah. And while we're in this body, he says, you know, a couple times that we groan. Um just the reality of human nature being um hard, hard, uh broken. We've got sin, we've got sickness, we've got suffering, and that's part of the human life.

Pastor Plek 10:50

Yeah, how about um humans are separated from God in the body, meaning we're not face to face in the Lord. Um, we have a season here, um, as great as it is, but we are all in the burden and the joy. It's not a fullness of being connected with Christ. There is a distance, and in death for Christians, you get to be fully connected to Jesus, and that's really a powerful thing.

Ambassadors For Christ In Public Life

Pastor Holland 11:21

Yeah. It can I love it, like it's kind of weird. Um like the idea that he's like, we would rather be in heaven with Jesus, but you don't see them like committing suicide, right? Yeah. Um there uh so it's like you gotta dig in it and understand, I would rather be with Jesus, but that does not give me the right to take my own life or um uh to despise this life, but rather to understand that our time in these mortal bodies in this life is a gift and a stewardship from God for the good of other people.

Pastor Plek 11:57

Let's unpack that a little bit because I think there's a lot of people that are listening that as they're they're like, my life is that hard and it is that bad. And I don't think we're trying to minimize how bad your life is. It's just that there is this time of endurance that God is calling you to see his goodness even in the midst of such sorrow and sadness. So don't give in to the darkness. Trust Jesus that ultimately he will bring you home in his timing, but don't rush that process because it you you're gonna rob yourself of some joy.

Pastor Holland 12:25

Yeah. And and the groaning, you know, if you're really going through it right now, you are groaning and you're struggling. You're meant to turn to God in faith and receive comfort from him, as we read in a previous chapter, right? That he's the God of all comfort. And he comforts us that we might be able to comfort others. And so you persevering and enduring through pain and suffering right now, the purpose of that is to show, you know, the power of God's comfort in your life that other people might be drawn to know Christ. Yeah, it's good. Yeah.

Mortality Suffering And Enduring Hope

Pastor Plek 12:54

Um, how about this humans are self-centered by default, but are transformable. Look at verse 15. Um He died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves. We just have this self I don't know, self-living, I don't know, living for ourselves tendency who can no longer live for themselves, but for him. We can you are transformed from a person that that thinks only about how does this affect me to how does this affect Christ. And I can we this is where I feel like if I could just I can summarize all Christian therapy in one sentence, it's this. Like, or at least when I think when I say therapy, I'm like Christian counseling, Christian discipleship, whatever that is. The well you your the end state goal is that you no longer live for yourself, you don't focus on yourself, you don't go, oh, woe is me. You focus on the glory of who Jesus is, and that is what transforms you. And by the power of the Holy Spirit, you are able to do that. And so instead of going, look how bad I have it, you say, Look how good God is. And I'm gonna focus on him and his goodness and his glory, and that transforms my state of mind.

Pastor Holland 14:06

Amen. Yeah, and we have the ability to do this because verse 17, if anyone's in Christ, he's a new creation. Yeah. The old has passed away. Behold, the new is come. And so we're not enslaved to self-centeredness, we're not enslaved to sin. We are a new creation who we actually can start living for Jesus instead of ourselves.

Pastor Plek 14:26

And if it's like the reason why we feel despondent is we feel alone and disconnected, especially from God. But guess what? Look at this. Is why, like, this is this is such a powerful, like I think of 2 Corinthians 5 as maybe one of the most powerful Christian, like if you need counseling, or you're and I and I think all of us do need it, like you need to let this counsel your soul, let the Holy Spirit counsel you through this. Okay, so you've got this issue, like you're living for yourself, you're focused on yourself, look how bad it is, and you can't do it, and then you're you're a new creation, the oldest passway, behold, new is come. All this is from God who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation. This is wild that you uh God is not going to count your sin against you. So why are you counting your sin against you? Like he is not counting your sin against you. He is saying, You are mine, you are loved, I've got you, just trust me. And I know that in the moment the burden is it's hard to trust him when I can't see him, but we don't walk by sight, we walk by faith, and that is what changes our lives. That kind of living will transform you.

Pastor Holland 15:40

Yeah, amen. And I I think it's uh it's interesting. He's writing this, you know, to a Christians. Yeah. And um, but he says, we implore you. Uh verse 20, on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. And so I th, you know, to me, I'm like, is he possible for a Christian to be not reconciled to God? Uh no, you know, in in in terms of like a salvation, you are reconciled to God. Um, but you know, relationally with God, you can have um uh distance between you and feel despondent.

Pastor Plek 16:15

You could feel sad, you could be like hopeless when you're like, here's all the promises. Don't forget the promises.

Pastor Holland 16:21

And then in addition to that, uh, nobody knows the state of someone's soul except God, truly, you know, like so. When Paul's writing to the Corinthians, he's like, you know, it may be that some of you are not actually Christians. Um, you're coming to this church, uh, you know, uh, even like the guy who was excommunicated for his sexual immorality, the guy who had his father's wife in 1 Corinthians. Yeah, he said, You got to kick him out of the church because his behavior is contradicting his confession. He's saying he's a Christian, but his life is clearly, you know, in opposition to Christian teaching. And so Paul's aware, you there might be some non-Christians gathering with this church in Corinth, and Paul's saying, if that's you, you need to repent and be reconciled to God.

Pastor Plek 17:08

And he's gonna later in later chapter, I think it's 13, he's gonna say, like, test yourself, examine yourself to see if you're truly in the faith.

New Creation And Reconciliation

Pastor Holland 17:13

Right. And the same way, I I think about that because every sermon, every Sunday when we preach a sermon in church, we're preaching to church, like we're the assumption is most people here are Christians, right? You're this you're preaching to the members of your church, but you also have some people who may be visitors that are not Christians. You also have some people who may think they're Christians but are not Christians. And that you may think are Christians, but they're actually far from God and haven't accepted the gospel yet.

Pastor Plek 17:38

Yeah, that's why I love that. Okay, let's get into some character of God uh truths. How about um look at verse five? And I think this comes up in scripture a ton. Um He who has prepared us for this very thing, meaning like we're gonna be with Jesus, swallowed up by life. I love that swallowed up by life, uh, for this very thing is God who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. What does that mean? I what I think it means is like when the Holy Spirit indwells you, it's like that's my deposit. That's my guarantee that that is mine for forever. It's God's claim on you. So when the Holy Spirit starts working in you, you could what the what the thing that's really great about when you can testify, like I know the Holy Spirit's working in me and I'm I am his. It is just that you are his. And so I need you what I especially if the despondency or the sadness or something creeps up, lean into that. He didn't choose you and put a deposit down for you to let you go later. He's like, No, I value you, I want you. I am willing to put myself into you because that's how badly I want you.

Pastor Holland 18:41

Yeah. And the fullness of salvation is coming one day. Like we get to receive the fullness of salvation in terms of like forgiveness of our sin and relationship with God. But the resurrection body and the dwelling with God forever in a new heavens and new earth, that's coming in the future. But the spirit that we have now is the guarantee or the down payment of going, hey, it's gonna all get better one day. If you're going through it right now, don't be despondent because one remember, this spirit that you have right here is the promise from God that one day you'll dwell in a perfect creation and a perfect body. Praise the Lord. Yeah.

Pastor Plek 19:16

How about just this ambassador role here? Um, God makes us ambassadors, but and the only way he's able to do it is he takes our sin, like this. I love verse 21. For our sake, he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. There is a great exchange where he imputes, which just means stamps, like forever imprints his righteousness on our soul, and then forever imputes our sin on him, on Jesus, so that we might be the true righteousness of God. That's the great exchange. And I just, man, that's an act of God that we can only sit back and go, like, wow, look what God has done.

Pastor Holland 19:59

Yeah. He he credits like our our account that was in the negative, you know, because of sin. He not only takes it to zero of saying, I forgive your debt, he also positively, you know, makes a deposit of righteousness. Yes, you're you're not only um forgiven of sin, you are now the righteousness of God because of his spirit dwelling in us, because Christ in us, because we're united with Christ by faith. Um, we now uh stand before God not just as people who had their debts canceled, but as people who are positively righteous. Yeah.

Spirit Guarantee And The Great Exchange

Pastor Plek 20:34

You know, when in I use this as a fun verbal gymnastic, is I what I like to say is mercy is not counting your sins against you, grace is giving what you didn't deserve. And so it's not just mercy where you get to zero, it's grace where you get the son of God. You know, the father loves Jesus in John 17 prayed, Father, I pray that you love them even as you have loved me. Right. And so you get the full love as a perfect son of God from the Father.

Pastor Holland 21:02

Yeah.

unknown 21:02

Whew.

Pastor Plek 21:03

It gets excited. It's awesome. Yeah, that's so great. Okay. How about um anything else for character God?

Pastor Holland 21:09

Um, yeah, he's merciful, he's gracious, he's forgiving, he reconciles sinners to himself through Jesus. Um, just some very, I mean, gospel stuff.

Practical Application And Final Charge

Pastor Plek 21:18

And you covered it all. All right, let's get into some application. Remember, we got a sin to avoid or confess, a promise to claim, an example to follow, a command to obey, or knowledge to believe. What you got here?

Pastor Holland 21:29

Uh he says we're always of good courage. Just back to the idea of not being despondent, depressed, downcast, not just allowing yourself to stay in that place, but remind yourself of the gospel. Um, remind yourself of the hope that you have awaiting you in the future that the spirit is a guarantee of right now. Like we should Christians should always be of good courage.

Pastor Plek 21:49

Okay. How about uh send to avoid, don't live for yourself, verse 15. Yeah. Instead, live for Jesus.

Pastor Holland 21:56

Umledge to believe the oldest. Passed away and the new has come, just knowing like you're not who you used to be. If you're in Christ, you are a new creation, and therefore, um, yeah, again, be of good courage.

Pastor Plek 22:09

How about uh promise to claim? If you're a Christian, you have the Holy Spirit, and that's a guarantee. And and I love it, the guarantee isn't necessarily uh for you, it's God's guarantee for him that you're his, and so that therefore, that guarantee that he can't lose you because he put his down payment for you, like you're his claim for forever. That should encourage you that he went and did the work to pay for you. He wants you.

Pastor Holland 22:39

Amen. Um, we implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God, command to obey. If you are not reconciled to God right now, as you're listening, confess your sin. Um, profess Jesus as Lord, repent from your sin, turn to him in faith, be reconciled to God. I love it. All right, how about this?

Pastor Plek 22:59

Uh, just a simple one, and we can probably wrap this up. Verse nine, make it your aim to please him, command to obey. Make it your aim to please him and no longer live for you, but live for Jesus who died and rose. On your way today. All right. Hey, thanks so much for uh joining us. We'll see you next time on a chapter a day.