1 Timothy 5 Discussion

One line in 1 Timothy 5 hits like a thunderclap: if someone won’t provide for their own household, they’re “worse than an unbeliever.” We take that seriously and work through what Paul actually means, because it forces a question most churches and families would rather dodge: who is responsible for care when life falls apart?

We start with the big frame Paul gives Timothy, treating the church as family. From there, we dig into the detailed guidance on caring for widows, including why the church’s benevolence can’t be random or purely emotional. We talk about practical Christian living, how a healthy church asks wise questions, and why Scripture pushes children and grandchildren to step up before the church enrolls someone for ongoing support.

Then we shift to church leadership and pastoral integrity: honoring elders, the biblical case for paying pastors, and why “don’t muzzle the ox” is more relevant than it sounds. We also address a hard but necessary topic: accusations against elders, the need for two or three witnesses, and what public rebuke is for when a leader persists in sin. Finally, we land on impartiality, character, and why you should never appoint leaders too quickly.

If you care about biblical church order, caring for widows, Christian family responsibility, and protecting the church from chaos and rumor, this conversation is for you. Subscribe, share this with your church friends, and leave a review with the most challenging takeaway you heard.

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Transcript

Welcome And Chapter Outline

Pastor Plek 0:11

And welcome back to a chapter day. Keeps the devil away. I'm Pastor Plek, and I've got Ruben Campos joining me as our special guest on today's edition of Chapter Day. We're talking First Timothy chapter five, and we're gonna outline it. We are going to observe it, interpret it, and then apply it so that you can be fully equipped to take on the darkness today with the light of God's word. So outlining chapter five of uh First Timothy, we've got verses one through two, treating the church as family. Verses three through 16, a long just exposition on how to care for the widows of the church. Verses 17 through 20 talk about honoring elders, especially those who preach and teach the word of God in 17 through 20. And then verses 21 through 25, we have got integrity and impartiality. All right, let's go.

Treating The Church As Family

Pastor Plek 1:00

Ruben, what do you see here about some observations about this text?

SPEAKER_01 1:05

So, yeah, I mean, I think just in general, you you you outlined it pretty well there. Um, the biggest thing that jumps out to me, I would say, uh observationally, is just the order that you see in the household of God.

Pastor Plek 1:16

Yeah. Yeah, I feel like there he there's this like, hey, treat people like family. And then like you're when you treat people like family, and he's talking to as a as a pastor, he's supposed to care and manage the household of God. And there's gonna be some widows in here that clearly need some help and support. And I thought it was kind of wild. And this is the part that I mean, if you if you look at at what he at what he says to to Timothy here, like, hey, let a window, uh, okay. Verse 11. Yeah, verse 11. But refuse to enroll younger widows, uh, for when their passions draw them away, they desire to marry. Besides that, they learn to be, I mean, he goes on and on about how how the issues they have. And then also the widow can be enrolled if she has brought up children, has shown hospitality, has washed the feet of the saints, has cared for the afflicted, has devoted herself to every good work. Like it feels like there's some pretty high expectations to be a widow that sort of works for the church, right? Because enrolling them means you're provided monetarily, right, for the church. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

To some degree, yeah, yeah. That that seems to be an implication there. And I certainly I I caught the same thing when I was reading through it. I just kind of circled all the ifs, right? And it's like if she's not less than six, if she has brought up children, and so there, I think there's one, two, three, four, five, six ifs, right, right, that help determine whether or not this person can in fact be considered a widow.

Pastor Plek 2:47

So okay, so I'm gonna just let you know kind of where we we don't have any widows enrolled in our church. Okay. Um we've had widows at the church before, but they

Who Qualifies For Widow Support

Pastor Plek 3:00

eventually did get married and because they were younger. Um yeah. So there hasn't this been like a thing for our church. It's interesting to me, and maybe it's just like sometimes, you know, our church currently is like one that's that's a little bit on the younger side. Yeah. Um, but uh there's gonna be a point at which we're gonna have some older widows of the church who we're gonna have to take charge of, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Yeah. I I I I think uh I think certainly that's the case. You know, it's it's it's funny you you're saying that because just earlier today I was having a discussion with somebody in regards to um a separate challenge that that some churches face, which is uh disabilities in the church. And so when you when the average church is uh I think 80% of churches in America are under 100, yeah, 100 people, right? You're not gonna have one of everything in the church in terms of time. And so um until it becomes a prevalent issue or something that you're facing, you typically don't, you know, you don't have to wrestle with that question. And so in our case, we don't have anything going on right now, but I do think that it's it's incumbent on the church to consider these things and to really think through okay, if that happens here at Wells Branch, yeah, right, what are we gonna do in that process? What is it gonna look like? What sort of support are we gonna provide? Yeah.

Pastor Plek 4:15

All right, how about this? Um, like when we get into uh taking care of your family, uh is this where we talk about like if anyone doesn't take care of their own family is worse than unbelievers? Yes. What verse is that?

SPEAKER_01 4:30

That's up at verse four. Yeah, four. Is it acceptable? No, verse eight. Verse eight, yeah.

Pastor Plek 4:39

If anyone does not provide for his own family, I was like, yeah, okay, how can you be worse? And maybe they're saying, listen, even unbelievers do this. Unbelievers take care of their family. If you don't take care of your family, what is wrong with you?

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Yeah, like you know, he he goes as far as to say he has denied the faith, right? He he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Pastor Plek 5:04

Okay, yeah, denied the faith.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Yeah, in what sense?

Pastor Plek 5:07

Well, like I like you don't believe in Jesus anymore. I and I guess maybe they're saying, like, hey, if you don't take care of your family, you pretty much deny Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Yeah, I think it's it's the the practically speaking, right? And I think that's something that when you talked about observations earlier, I think that's something else that jumps out here is that today, especially, we live in such a society that is like doing everything it can to run from the practical applications of scripture. And here you have Paul uh just writing out hey, practically speaking, this is what it looks like to be a Christian in the household of God.

Pastor Plek 5:43

Yeah, yeah, I love that. All right, so take care of your own family. Uh church, take care of those who don't have family. And then, okay, and then the flip side, hey, church, take care of the elders who are managing all this.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Yes, which are also part of the family of God.

Pastor Plek 5:55

Right. Yeah, which I yeah, that's pretty cool. I I and then uh I I, you know, this as a pastor, uh, you're like, okay, hey, let elders who rule well be considered

Family Duty And Worse Than Unbeliever

Pastor Plek 6:05

of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. And so that that's like, hey, it's okay to pay pastors. Yeah. That's that's a normal thing. Yeah, like you would you wouldn't muzzle an ox while it was threshing grain, right? It's like and and I think it's funny because people probably when's the last time I, you know, got behind an ox and had it pull plow. But what would happen is you if you muzzled the ox, that'd be that ox that'd be considered cruel because it's working, it's pulling this huge um I guess the plow could be, I guess, metal or wood or whatever, but it's working, and as it's working, if it's got some you know, munchies on the ground there, let it eat it, it's gonna help it only do better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Uh which is like, you know, quite frankly, just even touching on that topic is considered such faux pas in some in some churches, yeah. Like they they don't even bring it up. It's right, you know, okay. We won't talk about that. It's kind of hush hush. Yeah. But here it's just like of course you're it's right. So of course, it's it's so obvious that like the basic thing of farming, like an ox is is plowing a field, you don't stop it from eating, right? Like it's it's just basic.

Pastor Plek 7:06

Let's go back to that old testament. Um I it was that Leviticus that that that they're bringing that out from. Um uh right here. Let me sorry, I should have probably references here before I before I cast. But like when he when he goes back there, he's getting back to like when you quote that, you're saying, this is so simple. Uh it's Deuteronomy, Deuteronomy 25. It's so basic. Because when when it when it says don't muzzle the oxwalls trending, it doesn't talk about payment of people at that time. It just yeah, it puts at the base level, yeah, I guess subsidiary unit, like the lower than humans, pay them for their work. You know what I mean? So, like in the same way, pay them for their work. Yeah, uh, because that's a base thing.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

And so um well, it's it's it's base in that sense, but it's also base in the way that that Paul's explaining it, whether it's agricultural or whether it's you know, uh, these examples that Jesus was like this too when he talks about like, you know, isn't isn't a bird uh, you know, worth uh or isn't a person worth more than a sparrow, you know, that sort of thing. Um and but he he makes these comparisons. Paul's making this comparison, it's good. It's on the most base level.

Pastor Plek 8:16

Yeah. And then the other one I thought was interesting, don't admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. Because and I love this, because there is a tendency uh to just kind of go at pastors, go at elders because they're leaders. And if you're you know, I always say this if you're not if no one's talking bad about you, you're not in charge of anything. And so that's gonna happen. And so, but don't admit the charge unless there's two or three eyewitnesses,

Honoring Elders And Paying Pastors

Pastor Plek 8:45

yeah, not people that had hearsay about something, uh, because that becomes problematic.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Yeah, I think this speaks a lot to, you know, it's it's very much culturally. We we put people on pedal stools, you know, and and even in our our culture today, not in the church, uh, you know, you see someone famous, maybe you catch someone famous eating at a restaurant. Yeah. You're like, oh my gosh, they they eat here too. Right. Well, they're people too, you know. So pastors are people.

Pastor Plek 9:10

Didn't you always think your teachers lived at school?

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Yes, that's right. Yeah, yeah. All right, what are you doing out of class?

Pastor Plek 9:16

Yeah, like I don't even can't even conceive of you not being right here. All right, let's get into some nature of man. How about how about this? Um, people need structure and accountability. Without it, without clear processes and clear who's responsible for what, it leads to just dysfunction. Yeah. So, like a widow who is younger, hey, don't enroll her in the roles because it's going to be confusing for her about who is to provide for her. Go back to home, go back to private family, or like go get married. It's okay, go get married.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Yeah. Yeah, that there's something that's interesting about that is that it seems uh, you know, you you think of church, and you're like, okay, there's the ultimate benevolence, right? Church is supposed to be super benevolent. What do you mean, don't enroll her? Yeah. Like, like, shouldn't it be automatic, right? The assumption is like it should just happen. This is a church. Why don't you guys do this? That is part of our benevolence process.

Pastor Plek 10:09

So when people come up for asking, you know, our church is does gives about over a hundred and fifty or so thousand away to people in need. And one of the questions that we ask people is do you have anybody in your family that can help you? And usually they say they have family, but their family won't help them. Yeah. And we're like, oh, they probably don't know Jesus. Uh they are worse than an unbeliever. Or if they are a Christian, they're they've denied the face, faith, and they're worse than an unbeliever when they won't help out their own family. Um okay, what else? Nature of man. What do you see? Ooh, how about this? Uh, man's true character will eventually be revealed. Look at verse um 24. Uh the let's see.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

The sins of some men are quite evident going before them to judgment first. Because they're gonna come out. Sins fall after, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that it's funny. Uh there's this this text leaves no way of escape. Yeah, right. Either before or after your sins will be found out. Yeah, yeah.

Pastor Plek 11:11

It's like uh awkward moment for everybody. Okay, uh, anything else you got for uh nature of man?

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Um well I think I think something I would say to Nature of Man here too is you know, even for those widows who who do qualify, you have like uh Paul saying essentially, like, hey, address the children and grandchildren first, see if they can help you. Yeah, right. Uh and then you have uh the younger widows who who want help, but Paul's saying, hey, like you, you need to first, you know, get your own spiritual walk with Christ, with God right, and and and and see if you can help yourself in a sense. And so when I when I when I when I say both of those things in regards to the nature of man, I'm thinking that it's it's in man's nature to just want, to take, right? And and and to keep. And so you have like the grandchildren and children who aren't, why aren't they already helping grandma out? Yeah, why aren't they already helping mom out? Why why why does the church have to tell them, hey, go back and nice and deal with them? And and you have these younger widows who are just saying, Hey, give me, give me. Yeah, right. And so it's just in our nature to to want and to keep, I think. Uh that I see here.

Pastor Plek 12:19

How about this? This is kind of awkward, like uh just nature of man, like uh even elders can sin, okay? Yeah, and when they do, rebuke them in the presence of all so that they may, so that the rest may stand in fear. Yeah. Is that hardcore or what?

SPEAKER_01 12:38

You know, and so that's but isn't that the question? Is it though? Yeah, is it hardcore? Yeah, right. Like this is that you're you're bringing in a perfect example of how culture so so often can influence what we're thinking. You know, you hear people, I I've seen this online, you know, people are saying, Well, why are you calling out that past? Yeah, well, have you read the New Testament? I mean, Paul literally calls out false teachers or inappropriate teachers by name. By name, right? And and so I think that uh yeah, it it is hardcore, it is in sense, it's it's you know, because it's so um not our culture, yeah.

Pastor Plek 13:12

It's like and and because when you do that, some people are gonna be like, I cannot believe they called that person out. Yeah, um, but for an elder who is responsible for the leadership of the church, if they persist in sin. Now, this is only if they persist in sin. Yeah, so it's not like hey, if an elder, you know, has a bad day and and he

Accusations, Discipline, And Impartiality

Pastor Plek 13:30

doesn't and and then he apologizes, then don't call them out. They repented. That's sure. And because everybody sins and falls short. But man, how about the but the then the funny thing in the presence of God in Christ Jesus and of the elect angels, I charge you to keep these rules about prejudging and do nothing from partiality. Why the angels, the elect angels, which I I love the fact that there has to be elect angels to differ differentiate from the non-elect angels who are now demons. Isn't that fun?

SPEAKER_01 13:56

That is that that is awesome. And and to be honest, as I was reading it here, that's something that stuck out to me. And I thought to myself, man, I don't I don't know that I've ever like I've dove into that. Yeah, like the angels. Exactly, exactly.

Pastor Plek 14:06

What are we talking about? Yeah, like these are the ones that didn't fall. They're not the demons. These are the ones that you know that one day that we will judge them, right? How wild is that. Um, okay, let's get into the character of God. What do you see here from the character of God uh in this text? The one thing that sticks out to me is that as God has provided for the church, the church is to provide for uh its members.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think that the two of the things, uh, even in that that same vein of thought that really stick out for me in this in this uh chapter, yeah, is that the honoring and the humility that takes place, right? Yeah, and so that's a reflection of God's character, right? It's it's it's you know, honor the the old men, right? You know, honor the widow. And and you see this this requires for the men who are who are being honored, the ones who are doing the honoring, and and for them to be humble enough, yeah, right, to do that. How about so yeah, I think that's something I just see in the character again.

Pastor Plek 15:05

No, that's good. I think the character God, God is omnipresent. Like in the presence of God in Christ Jesus and the elected angels, I charge you. Well, yeah, like this is in a letter. So he's in one spot and he's doing it to them in uh or it's to Timothy, who's in Ephesus. And so it's like, okay, well, he clearly God is all of this is taking place before the divine council, before angels, before God, uh, before Jesus, uh, kind of wild.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Yeah, and I also think something that reveals just again going back to order in the household of God, right? It is it reveals that God is a God of order, right? There it's it's sometimes I would say that it's a an immature believer who looks at the structure and order that God provides and thinks legalism. Nice, right? And so, because for for for for the mature believer, I think he looks at something like this, sees all these orders, uh, all this structure, and says, man, you know, God is is he's so complete in the way that he thinks, right? There's no stone left unturned. Nice, everything is addressed, right?

Pastor Plek 16:12

Um, so yeah, I I just I just love that in regards to that's good, man. All right, how about let's let's land the plane here with some applications. So application, we got sin to avoid or confess, yeah, a promise to claim, example to follow, command obey, or just simply a knowledge to believe. Does anything stick out to you for one of those, like maybe sing to confess or avoid? How about the simple one of like don't be rude to older men? Like says, don't rebuke an older man, but encourage him as you would a father. And so this is a challenge for a young for Timothy as a young pastor. Yeah, he has to do some re don't rebuke an older man, but he's got to do something. He's got to encourage them to be a man of God.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

It's kind of wild how that is his calling. And and to do it in a manner that that still honors the experience of this, this, this gentleman he's talking to, right? Which which can be a challenge, right? You know, it's it's uh even if it's um unintentional, you can you can offend.

Pastor Plek 17:09

Yeah. How about verse six? Don't be self-indulgent, uh, Cindu Avoid. Oh, yeah. Because the woman is dead even while she lives. Yeah, that's what I mean. Paul, man, like what wow, you're you're bringing the hammer.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Yeah, and command these things as well so they may be above reproach. Yeah, yeah.

Practical Applications And Elder Selection

SPEAKER_01 17:30

I I think that's you know, again, it's counter-cultural, right? Uh our our our culture says, you know, you know, self is most important. Yeah, right. It's all it's all about you. We're taking selfies, right? You know, like that's just that's what it's all about. And so it's it just flips what we we currently see around us on its head. Um, and then I would also say, like, send to a void for uh single moms, right? There's a lot here. There's a lot here. That's that's not easy, but I would say take your time, go through it, look. What is how do what does that mean for you? How does that apply to your life as a single parent, as a single mom? Wow. There's a lot there. Yeah.

Pastor Plek 18:10

So like I guess the question would be like, because the widow could have a wife, uh could have children. She knows because you know, it's not like yeah. So I didn't even think I was, you know, when I was thinking widow, I was thinking older person. It's true. Uh, but like at some point, if she's got a lot of children, there might be a season where she needs to be cared for by the church. That's where benevolence comes through. Yeah. Uh, but then the the idea was like, hey, have her go get married uh so that she could be uh taken care of in that culture. She it wasn't like she could just go get a part-time gig and take care of the kids or you know, whatever. It's it was a definitely a challenge. Um what about because it said at verse 14 the younger widows marry, bear children, manage their households, give the adversary no occasion for slander. So uh this was I thought that was interesting, like because it didn't really get it didn't get into like if you're a single mom, here's what you should do. It kind of felt like it was either uh uh a mom or a single woman or a older widow. Yeah, it doesn't really get into uh a a mom, a single mom with you know uh school-aged children.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Yeah, and I don't want to necessarily conflate the two, right? I mean, there there are widows and and single moms, and not every single and and some single moms are widows, but not not every single mom is. Absolutely, right?

Pastor Plek 19:27

And so but I I thought that was interesting because I'm sure there were a bunch that were. Yeah, yeah. For sure. For sure. Um okay, uh, what other uh application do you have here? Um how about pay your pastor? Yeah, yeah, pretty pretty straightforward on that one, yeah. Yeah. Um and then how about this one? Uh don't bring charges against elders without witnesses. Don't slander.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Yeah, yeah. That that's uh, you know, and uh this is something that hits home personally. I've I've I've experienced a little bit of this myself, and I can tell you it's it's really uh it hits hard when that happens, you know, like uh when when an elder or a pastor commits their life to doing this work for the Lord, right? Uh to be faced with that sort of uh I don't know, I want to call it retaliation or uh charge.

Pastor Plek 20:21

Or just maybe it's immaturity to not realize how hard that hurts someone. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

That it truly is. So that that's that that's a great one to point out there. I think uh what's the other one here? Verse 22, don't do not lay hands upon anyone hastily and thereby share responsibility for their sins. Oh keep yourself pure.

Pastor Plek 20:39

Yeah, that is huge. Let's talk about that real quick. He's saying don't lay your hands to commission an elder, so to speak. Correct. Before their time. And because what could happen is they have an immature elder who's not elder qualified, they might do more harm than good as a leader in their church.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Yeah, and in fact, I I a quick example, I I recall going uh uh helping um assess some men through the elder process. Yeah. And uh, you know, uh, depending on where you're doing that from, there's massive packets you fill out and you do all this. And uh, and I just remember, you know, I just remember uh sending this packet out to to one gentleman that we had thought, okay, this this person might be a good elder. Yeah, yeah. And weeks passed, reached out, okay, I'll I'll fill it out. And uh, and eventually the truth came out. I I just I think there's too much personal information there. Why do I need to fill that out? Right. And uh and I thought, man, here we were, like thinking this this person could be suited for eldership, yeah, but there was internally a conflict, a resolve to not do the most basic of requests, just hey, fill out this this packet of information. And so thank goodness we weren't quick to lay hands on and say, hey, this is gonna be the elder. Well, yeah.

Pastor Plek 21:50

We almost made a huge mistake once we had a guy who was about to be an elder. It was like the day before the the we were the congregation would affirm the elder's nomination for him to be a part of the elder council. And uh the day before he calls me and he's like all freaked out because he's like my wife is you know challenging me and I've gotten a big fight. And I was like, hey, why don't we just pause this for now? You don't have to be an elder tomorrow. Why don't we just pause that and it's okay, there's no shame, it's just no, no worries. Yeah. Because what I said is I don't want to put a um a target on your back because being an elder means you have to carry the weight, the spiritual weight of the church, and that is heavy. It is. Um, anyway, okay. Man, that I think that's huge. I think that wraps it up for that pastor. We covered a lot there. Yeah. Uh hey, thanks so much for joining us. We'll see you next time on a chapter a day.