The Sin of Unforgiveness

Unforgiveness feels heavy because it is. It is like dragging a boulder everywhere you go. Exhausting, frustrating, and honestly unnecessary.

So what if letting it go is actually the doorway to peace?

So many women are walking around carrying bitterness that is quietly eating away at their joy, their relationships, and their connection with God. And here is the truth. Forgiveness is not pretending it did not hurt. It is choosing to release what is weighing you down so you can finally be free.

Think of it this way:
You can keep dragging the boulder… or you can set it down and let God carry what was never yours to hold.

Is forgiveness easy? No.
Is it necessary for healing? Absolutely.

Forgiveness is a decision you make over and over again. It is a process. But it is also one of the most powerful ways to restore your heart, your peace, and your relationship with God and others.

And if you are feeling stuck, angry, or even wrestling with God in the middle of your pain, you are not alone. He is big enough to handle all of it. Your questions. Your hurt. Your anger.

Forgiveness is not weakness.
It is strength rooted in trust.

Start small today:

• Say the prayer even if you do not feel ready
• Ask God for the willingness to forgive
• Take one step toward letting go

God will meet you there.

What is one small step you can take today?

If you want practical steps, biblical encouragement, and real hope on your forgiveness journey, reach out to Leslie about her new book at leslie@heartcallministries.org

#ChristianHealing #ForgivenessJourney #FaithOverFear #HealingInChrist #LetGoAndTrustGod #BiblicalTruth #ChristianWomen #EmotionalHealing #FaithAndMentalHealth

Website:  www.hopeandhealinglifecoach.com

Email:  amydonathan@hopeandhealing.faith

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hey all and welcome back to Encounters at the Well. I'm your host, Amy Donathan, and I am so glad that you're here. And today I have one of my new favorite people because I've only known her for uh six months. Six months, about yeah. Six months, yeah. Um, but we are collaborating on another podcast and some other projects, and it's just been great. So, my friend Leslie Davis, um, she is amazing and she has a heart of gold and a heart for God, and she is helping me tackle this subject today, which is really hard and one of the biggest ones that causes roadblocks in our faith walk, which is unforgiveness and bitterness. And they, in my understanding and in my life, I know that those go together. So, Leslie, why tell us first tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do, and then we'll jump into the questions.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Great. I am so excited to be here with you and be able to take this time to minister to your people. And I just I'm I'm just overwhelmed with gratitude for the opportunity. So thank you for having me on. And I am looking forward to this time that we can unpack forgiveness um for your crowd. And so, so a little bit about me, my name's Leslie Davis, and my husband and I, um, Doug, we have a marriage ministry called the Vision Driven Marriage and a podcast and called the Vision Driven Marriage. And so, so if you want to know more about what we do, um that websites are there, the vision driven marriage.com. And I'm a counselor at heart, my husband's a pastor, and so we work as a team and ministry like that, you know, in that setting. And so, um, yeah, so that's a little bit about me.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Awesome. Well, and she has become one of my good friends, and we laugh a lot and um sometimes have the same mind, I think, as we talk. So um, so everybody grab your cup of tea, your cup of coffee, sit back and listen. So Leslie, what um why do you think Christian women struggle so much in this area of unforgiveness and bitterness?

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Well, I think that it is a huge um tactic of the enemy to undermine and take out the the one of the strongest things that Christ came to do, and that was to forgive us and to teach us how to forgive others. Because when we're carrying unforgiveness, we're not able to fulfill first of all, we're not able to have inner peace, and we're not able to fill our fulfill our kingdom purpose um because it like it I unforgiveness is like a dam. It just stops this up, like a dam stops a river up. It just stops the flow of love and the things that the Lord wants to do in our lives, um it stops us from understanding his character in a deeper, um, more substantial way in our Christian walk. And it's just very unforgiveness is just very detrimental all the way around.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

So if a client came to you and was talking about um unforgiveness but needed like an explanation of it, like how would you explain it, you know, in simple terms?

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Well, uh, here's how I would explain it in simple terms. I would say unforgiveness is like holding someone accountable for something that they've done to you. It's like if you can imagine someone walking on a path, but they have a chain around their waist and they're dragging a great big boulder, that's what it's like to be carrying unforgiveness is it's you're like dragging this boulder. But forgiving them is letting that boulder, it's like letting them off your hook, you know? So it's like like undoing that chain, it's like leaving that boulder where it's at. It doesn't deny the boulder, and it doesn't deny that the boulder is very heavy, but it does release you from the weight of that. Forgiveness is for your benefit, not for the benefit of the other person. And how that equates into our relationship with Jesus is that he offers us forgiveness for his benefit because he wants to have a relationship with us. He desires that we were created for that. And if we're carrying unforgiveness, or God forbid, if he were to carry unforgiveness, which he doesn't, that would separate us from him. And it's that I can't even wrap my mind around. Like, that's not even possible. Jesus offers forgiveness, that's what he does, you know. But when we carry unforgiveness in our own hearts, that stops us from having a relationship with the person that hurt us and a lot of other relationships as well. It comes into play. So it it affects our relationships with other people in um in so many ways. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Um how would you describe bitterness? Because I feel that bitterness comes along with unforgiveness, bitterness and resentment too, comes with unforgiveness.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

It does. I think unforgiveness, first of all, unforgiveness isn't an emotion. So it it's um it's a concept, right? The bitterness that we feel and the resentment that we feel is the emotion that's attached to unforgiveness. Now, it it it's kind of like this. It's kind of like I would explain if you had if you were explaining a cocker spaniel as a dog, right? A cocker spaniel is a dog, but not all dogs are cocker spaniels. It's like that. Bitterness and resentment are emotions sometimes tied to forgiveness and sometimes not. Sometimes we have those emotions that aren't tied to unforgiveness, but most of the time they are. But it's like the emotion that we're feeling because unforgiveness is present in our lives. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 6:37

Yeah. And it it's a byproduct of unforgiveness.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

It's a flag. Like if you experience someone that is that is bitter or resentful, like in the in the counseling office, that's if I encounter someone who's bitter or resentful, that's the first thing that I look for is unforgiveness in their lives.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

And what does that look like? Yes. And and what does that look like when when you see it, like like what are you seeing in people? Just just so people know, like, okay, well, maybe they don't have the word to attach to to this emotion they're feeling. Um, so so what is, you know, what do people exhibit if they are bitter and resentful?

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Well, or unforgiving, uh what what I see a lot of times is a fear, a fear of I don't want to work toward forgiving, um, or I don't want to be in relation to this person, I don't want to move toward this person, I don't want to think about this person. You know, it's um it's a push kind of, you know, a pushback kind of thing. But sometimes I see the resentment would be like um not just resentment against this other person that hurt them, you know, that resentment of like they're getting off the hook or there's no consequences or something like that could cause resentment. But also that resentment can come out. Um, if you see another person who's in a happy relationship, um, that maybe that's something you don't have because this person hurts you, there's resentment for that person as well. You know, so I can see resentment kind of coming up like this. A bitterness, how would I describe a bitterness? Like if um someone always has a negative attitude, you know, like nothing is ever good, nobody is ever nice, right, or um, you know, friendly, no one or they're self-deprecating, no one wants to be around me, um, no one likes me, that kind of thing. Um, but the world is just negative in their eyes. That's a sign of bitterness.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

And and to me, I I think of it as like a rot in you know, a fruit that it's just kind of eating from the inside out, and it's, you know, just getting worse and worse and worse because it's not taken care of. It's not, you know, cut out. And um, I mean, that's what I see in my you know, therapy sessions. Like it's just in there and it then it just you know kind of ruins everything else.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

And event yes, and eventually it's gonna destroy the fruit. Right. It's gonna ruin everything else. It will affect every area of your life if it's not taken care of.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

Um when when you're counseling somebody, um, and we kind of touched on this, like, how do you know that like their unforgiveness is running the show of their life?

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Well, I think I think asking certain questions about, well, no, when when have you experienced a time that you have felt like that before? You know, and then we can just start talking about life events. And a lot of times when we talk about life events, some of the lies come up about what they believe about forgiveness. You know, like if I um if I forgive this person that hurt me, I have to reconcile with them, you know. So a lot of times we just start unpacking those lies because forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same thing, you know. And I think that there's a lot of times when there's a realization of the lies that they believe about forgiveness, they're more likely to press into um forgiveness work than what they would be if they hadn't addressed those lies.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Um and we'll probably we'll probably get back to this a little bit farther down, but but that just made me think of um do you do you think that there's a misconception about what forgiveness is? Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

And so that's why people hold on to it so long? Yes, absolutely. There's probably a hundred misconceptions about what forgiveness is. And um a lot of time one of the that's one of the biggest ones, like I mentioned, that's one of the biggest ones that I've heard is that if I forgive this person, I have to reconcile. That forgiveness and reconciliation are the same thing. And ladies, they're not. I will just I will just tell you right now, they are not the same thing. You can forgive somebody and you do not have to reconcile with them. I would I would hesitate to say, take that to the Lord, because the Lord does give us the ministry of reconciliation, but if that relationship is not meant to be reconciled, the Lord's not gonna ask you to do something that he doesn't mean to have happen. Does that make sense? He's not gonna allow you to be in an abusive situation or continue to go back to an abusive situation after you've forgiven someone who's abused you. Like that type of reconciliation isn't gonna honor God or honor you either, you know. And so so reconciliation is not a prerequisite or a requisite of forgiveness.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

Okay, yeah, because I think um, you know, when we start talking about this, that it's a very scary subject um to forgive somebody who has hurt you and who maybe it's it's been years and years and years of of hurt, and to think I have to okay, he's just off the hook or she's off the hook for this. And and I'm supposed to be okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Yes, right. And the off the hook thing, uh, it's that's the other one of the other misconceptions that I see often is that if I forgive, that somehow justifies the harm that was done or justifies the other person's behavior. And that's not true either. It doesn't justify their behavior, their their behavior was wrong, it was hurtful, you know, and that's it, and it's okay to be okay with that, but forgiving them doesn't justify somebody else's behavior. And the Lord says the that vengeance is his, like he says that in the Bible, vengeance is mine. So one of the ways to kind of reframe that is to say, it's not my job to enact vengeance or to take revenge on that person. The Lord does that because they have sinned and the Lord will take care of the consequences of that sin. We don't have to do that, you know. So if we forgive them, it's not letting them off of God's hook. You know, it's letting them off of our hook and putting them onto God's hook.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

And I love, you know, your the way you explained it that you know, you have a chain and and they're like it's like this big boulder behind you and um it's yeah, and to me in in my head, I just have this vision of when we forgive, like we're leaving that boulder there for God to come take care of.

unknown 14:14

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

We don't have to take care of it. We just have to keep walking forward in this. Um But I think sometimes we rationalize why it's okay to be bitter and that gets overlooked in you know, maybe Christian circles or just, you know, circles, whatever circles you're in. Um so can you speak to that like like what what do we see that maybe we call acceptable bitterness, but really is is still that rot? Um because I think that's a misconception too, like, oh well you can still be this way and forgive, but but you can't because that's still part of that rock you have to hold on onto you.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Right, right. I think that I think that comes down to the lie that if I forgive, that means my feelings are not justified. You know, it comes down to the fact I can act out of malice towards this other person, and I'm justified in doing so, you know, which, like you were talking about, can be acceptable in in some circles in some situations because they deserve it, right? They were, you know, they were the ones who enacted harm into me. So they deserve the fact that I can have malice against them. But the means don't justify the end, right? And first of all, the Lord is responsible for the end, right? We just talked about that. The Lord is justified is is responsible for the justification and the the responsibility, the consequences of their sin, not us, right? But we need to think about how we can handle our the means to that end in a righteous way, because that's what we're called to do. We're called to behave righteously. And by the leading of the Holy Spirit, by the power of the Holy Spirit, we can do that. And a lot of times that's a scary process. We don't know what that looks like, but the Lord will always honor our attempt to do that righteously. But we're not justified in acting in malice towards the other person just because they have inflicted harm onto us. Like that is the antithesis of a Christian, of what we're called to do as Christians, you know, and not just called to do, like that's in our own spirit, but what the Holy Spirit is empowering us to do, you know, because we don't have to have this journey. We don't take this journey in our own strength. Thank you, Lord. We do not take this journey in our own strength, you know, and He will justify our means.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

But I think one of the ways that I explain this um in therapy and to myself is, you know, God has told me a lot to stay in my own line. And one story I have about that is my kids when when they were home, um, they had chores. And at first, you know, they were supposed both do the laundry and both do the dishes. Well, my son hated laundry, my daughter hated dishes, so I'm like, I don't care how you do them. Just Allie, you do you do the laundry, Sam, you do the dishes. Perfect. And one day my daughter walked through the kitchen and she said, Sam, if you don't do the dishes, you're gonna be grounded. And I was like, Who are you to tell him he's gonna be grounded? You're not the mom. You you need to do what I told you to do, and and only that. Because if you don't do that, you're gonna be in trouble. And I'm mom and I'll take care of him. And I right then the Lord said, Yes, Amy. Yes, Amy. Stay in your lane, you do what I call you to do, yeah, and I will take care of everything else. And I have had that, I mean, the Lord gave me children to teach me lessons. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And and that was one of the ones that I learned that I have to tell myself over and over again, like, stay in my lane. God calls me to to be this way, regardless of how anybody else treats me or acts or what they say or what they do. I'm still called to be this way. He will empower me to do this, and I can trust him to handle everything else, just like my daughter could trust me to ground my son if he didn't do his dishes.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

Right, right, right. And I think sometimes where we kind of veer off path a little bit is when our emotions are involved as well, because we we say, Lord, I want vengeance on this person because this person hurt me, you know, and the Lord is responsible for the consequences of those sins. But our emotions get in the way when we're anger, when we're angry, or and that anger becomes a bitter root, you know, like you were talking about that bitterness. And we don't allow the Lord to address those situations, you know, we don't allow the Lord to address that because we're waiting and watching for the Lord's consequences for that other person. You know, when we really need to be reflecting inside about how the Lord is using, we're going to use or going to heal our hearts based on the hurt, you know.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

And I think it really goes to trusting God in all of it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Who do who do you believe that he is? And if you don't have a good view on who he is, then you know, hop in your hop in your word and you know, read through Psalms. Psalms oh absolutely all kinds of all kinds of descriptions of God. Um so when you and we've talked about, you know, some of the misconceptions of of unforgiveness. Um so what fears do you hear when you're talking to clients about forgiving someone? I know what comes up in my brain when I when I think about it, you know because I I feel that I have a wall up and just just the fear of taking that down and being vulnerable again. Um whether I reconcile or not, like it's that wall got built up and it has kept other people out too.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. The thing about the wall being built up though is that when you allow the Lord to bring you to a place of forgiveness and that healing that comes with that journey, that wall comes tumbling down, you know, and then you're able to put proper boundaries in place and you can you can reconcile with safeguards in place, or you know, choose not to not to reconcile, but there's still safeguards in place for other people, you know, because there's boundaries in place that otherwise that boundary is really because the wall is really high, you know, those boundaries are like, well, I cannot even be in that relationship because if I'm vulnerable, I might. Get hurt, you know. But I, you know, the thing is that there's so many times where something happens and we begin to believe a lie at that time, and that creates a stronghold. And as we grow up, all of our decisions and all of our um, you know, uh, it just affects every area of life. One of the one of the areas in my life that I had a stronghold that I really had to deal with. In fact, this has just come up recently, too, in my life, is that a lot of times when I was little, uh my my mom was very despondent. And so there wasn't a good connection, emotional connection there between me and my mom. So my sister would step in and be the mom. Well, she wasn't old enough to be the mom. She was only nine years older than me. So she was like 12, 13, 14, 15 at the time, you know. But one of the things that I learned because of that dynamic in our relationship is that nobody's big enough to hold my feelings. Like I can't express how I feel because it's not going to be well received anywhere, you know? And Satan would take that, you know, I had to for I where that comes to forgiveness at, like in the forgiveness story, is that I had to understand that my parents did the best that they could with what they knew, you know, and that that piece of information allowed me to kind of be altruistic towards them or towards their memory because the understanding is that they weren't intentionally trying to harm or not raise me properly, you know. And so it that little bit of information and that that spin just allowed me to be a little more altruistic towards them and my sister as well, you know, and my sister as well. Um, but that feeling of nobody can handle how I feel, that is still residual. That still comes up. Like I still have to work on that. So the plate, long story short, the places where you're holding unforgiveness and those lies that are inserted there, if they become a stronghold, it's not just bitterness coming out, but it's a deep-seated belief about the world based on what you've lived and your experiences and whatnot. And it can just infiltrate everything, you know, just everything. And it may be at the base of it, it may be unforgiveness that is at the base of it. A little bit of forgiveness work might spread some clarity on that and allow allow healing to take place.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

I think for forgiveness, when we talk about the fears and we talk about the misconceptions and we talk about what it is and what it isn't, it's it really for me boils down to trusting God.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Do I trust God knowing who I know He is to help me do this?

SPEAKER_02 25:16

And I think I think that's for for me. I don't know if it's for everybody, but fundamentally I have to trust the person that I'm giving this to. And so which is also, you know, every time we do that is an act of worship because we are showing God that we we think he's the one that can fix it.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

And um He tells us in His Word that He can fix it. Um 147.3, he heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds. You know, there's a lot of times when, like you were saying, I have to trust the person whom I give this to, right? We know that the Lord is trustworthy, but why do we know that? Because it says that in scripture that he's the one who heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds, you know, and a lot of times we don't know what to say or don't know what the process are, but if we begin to pray just that scripture, Lord heal my brokenheartedness and bind up my wounds, just watch what he can do. When it cause just praying that is a is an act of worship and a trust of faith, like you were saying.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

Yeah, and it's I I love that I don't have to have it all together. I don't my faith doesn't have to be huge in in this. It's just um I I always I used to pray, um, you know, God would be with me, God don't don't leave me, you know. And and he kind of showed me in his word that he never leaves. I may turn, but it's like I'm in a room and I'm doing something and I need help, and he's just standing at the door saying, I'm here. Like he doesn't leave that spot. I just need to turn and ask him. And so it's trusting that when we when we get to the place and we see, I think we have to admit this unforgiveness is like causing problems in my life. And then you say, Okay, Lord, here you go. And then every time those bitter feelings come back or resentful feelings come back, you know you've picked it up again. And you just keep it.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Or or have more work to do. Yeah, say not necessarily picked it up again, but have more work to do because it is a process. It is that's one thing about forgiveness that it is both a decision and a journey. And it's that's exactly what you just described. You made a decision to turn to the Lord and say, I need help with forgiveness, heal this unforgiveness, you know, and then you start on the journey, you know, and the journey is, I mean, the journey is like, well, here's the way I would describe that journey. Like the first step is to understand that. Let me pull this up. The first step is to really work on discovering how unforgiveness affects your life. And we've talked a lot about it here, like the bitterness and the anger and the malice and the justification for bad behavior, and like it just affects everything, not to mention the internal thing, you know, the weight of it, the lack of peace. But you discover how unforgiveness is affecting you, and then you expose what forgiveness, like how you're being held back from forgiveness, like let's expose all of the lies of the enemies, let's expose all of our wounds. It's a very vulnerable process at this point because we have to be vulnerable before the Lord to be able to say, I really feel malice against this person, you know, and to be okay with bringing that to the Lord. You don't want to be okay with bringing malice to that person exactly, like out, you know, when I'm saying, but you can take that feeling before the Lord, and the Lord will say, I know and I love you, and I'm here with you. You know, I know of all the things that the Lord will say, He will at least say those three things because those three things are true, you know. And then the last step is to restore because God has given us the uh ministry of reconciliation. Now, not that not not reconciliation in the fact that you might reconcile with the person that hurt you, but when you're carrying unforgiveness, that's a sin. And that may be a hard sin to accept that that's a sin. But when you're carrying unforgiveness, and that's a sin, you're separating yourself from God, from God the Father. And in asking for the Lord to heal that unforgiveness, you are restoring your relationship with God the Father through the power of the Holy Spirit and through what Jesus Christ has done on the earth. So, in my estimation, those are the three steps. You discover and you expose and you restore. And that's the journey that you talked about. But the very first thing is you have to decide to forgive. Um, I had recently written in a book that I'm working on um Anna's story. Anna is a very dear friend of mine who's given me permission to share her story. So I it's it's in the book, but I can also share it here. She had unforgiveness toward a family member that came with a deep, a deep-seated malice. Like she wanted the worst for this person, and she knew that that was wrong. And the first thing she did was to say, Lord, I'm deciding to forgive. I have decided to forgive. I decide to forgive every day. And she still wasn't experiencing this breakthrough that she knew that the Lord had for her. Anyway, so that story is in an up-and-coming book that I'm coming out with. Um, I'm hoping in the spring, I'm hoping that we'll be ready to launch it in the spring. Um, but Anna's story is really um poignant in this because that's that's the first thing. That's the first thing that happens is you make a decision to forgive.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

Yes. And I I think uh just working with people um in abusive relationships and um addictions, like you have to get to a place where you say you're done. Yeah, I'm done. Um to to get out because you know, looking from the outside looking in is just like, well, just stop. Just get out of a relationship, just stop drinking, just forgive that person, just let it go. But until you get to a spot where you say, I'm done. I I cannot do this anymore. This is ruining me.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

And I can't do it on my own. Yes. I think that is a um a pivotal point too when you turn to the Lord and say, I can't do this on my own. You have to help me through this, you know.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

And I I love when you were telling your story about the lie you believe and and the knowledge that nobody can hold your feelings. But God can. Yes, oh absolutely. And even if it is those mean and hateful feelings you have towards somebody that has hurt you, he does not look at you and say, get that cleaned up before you come to me. Right. He says, Hand them to me. Right, absolutely. I will clean them up for you.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Yeah, there's no You can't do this. Right. There's no condemnation in Christ, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

Yeah, and I think that's such a beautiful picture of who our God is. And it's just love that about our Heavenly Father. And you know, for for all the women listening, if you if if you think that's a good thought, I just challenge you to try it. Like that first step of turning to God and saying, Here are all my nasty feelings about this person that I don't want anymore because they are destroying me and and it is coloring all of my other relationships. So I don't want them anymore. And just start he's big enough to handle it. Just like as parents, when our kids were mad at us, we didn't stop loving them. Right. We let them have it out, we were big enough to take it. Right. And if something needed handled, we were big enough to handle it. God is way bigger than that. Absolutely. And so I think it's um, you know, I think you saying that and then showing that, you know, just take this malice to God is you know, okay, I can do that. And just tr just that little bit of trust. Just here you go, God. Um there are a couple things that I think are tricky situations in forgiveness that we can talk about real fast. Um, one of them is like forgiving someone who is unrepentant, doesn't take responsibility, or is even unaware that that that they did this. Like, how do you how do you work with people when they're in that situation?

SPEAKER_01 34:41

One of the things is defining what forgiveness is up front before, you know, before the um being able to apply what forgiveness actually is, and it kind of dispels that because forgiveness isn't for the other person. Doesn't matter whether the other person is, you know, unrepentant or not in the picture or um continues to cause harm, you know, whatever that situation is. Forgiveness is for our own heart and our own relationship with God the Father, our own relationship with Jesus. You know, everything else is secondary.

SPEAKER_02 35:25

Okay. What about um when you are angry with God because something that you prayed for, um, healing that you wanted, healing for, you know, somebody that you prayed to not die-died, like, and you have this anger and unforgiveness towards God, like how do you help people deal with that?

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Well, I think first of all, I the encouragement of staying in the relationship is like that, like first and foremost. Like you may be mad at God, but don't leave the relationship. You know, it's okay to be mad at God. And, you know, that's a big thing in Christian circles that it is a lie that, you know, we've been taught, well, you can't be mad at God, you can't question God. You know, well, that's not true because there are times that we we do have emotion attached to our circumstances that, you know, our our spiritual walk or our just our life circumstances, if we have the understanding that the Lord controls everything, then we might have the understanding that, well, if if you control everything, you could have changed this. And that would lead to unforgiveness. But if we go into that going, Lord, I don't understand your sovereignty in this, and I need help processing these feelings because I am mad at you. You know, that's okay. One, you still come at it, you come at the problem with uh with humility. Like, I don't understand your sovereignty, right? Still acknowledges his sovereignty, right? Like it's a humble position that we come before the Lord. And there's a lot of situations that have happened that I don't understand his sovereignty, but I know that he's sovereign, you know, or the situations may feel like they're unloving. But that doesn't line, you know, I'm mad at God because I feel unloved in this situation. But that doesn't line up with scripture because scripture says he loves us, you know. So if you come up with something that's not aligned with scripture that causes you anger, causes you to be mad at God, humbly bring that to the Lord and question it. Like, how can this, this is what scripture says, right? You love me. How can this and situation coexist? You have to explain it to me because I don't understand and it makes me mad. You know, that's okay. That's okay to be in those places, but to be petulant, that's not okay. To be stiff-necked, that's not okay. The Lord's not going to, the Lord's not going to bless your relationship with him if you come to him as the petulant child. Lord, why did you do it like this? That's not humble, right? That's not, we're called to come to him in a humble manner, you know. Anyway, so that's how that's that's really how I would explain that, how I would do in that situation. That is stay humble in it. It's okay to be mad at God, but stay humble in it.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

And and God in his mercy and grace, like I just see him standing up there, like, are you done? Right, right. Or, you know, I've I've done this with my kids before. If I walked in their room and they like at me, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna walk out, we're gonna have a do-over. And I'll come in and you can try it again, and then we can have a conversation.

unknown 39:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

And so I think God, you know, he gives me do-overs all the time. Because I think we all can be that petulant kid, like, I want what I want when I want it, and you didn't give it to me, and now I'm mad at you.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 39:15

And so but I it's always helped me to look at God as a parent, especially after being a parent. Like if my kids came up as a petulant kid, I would just be like, can can we do this different? I know you can say this a little better. Here's your redo card.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

Yes, redo it. Let's redo it.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

Walk off, come back. So and and I I love that because God loves us. Yeah, and I think we have this if if we come to him and tell him we're angry at him, that he has that we we have this thought that he's going to be mad at us. And yes, he is holy. He is holy, and we should have awe of him and and reverence for him, but he's also our father. Yeah, and so he's big enough to handle that. Yeah, he's not gonna punish us for being angry.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

I think sometimes we have a view of God based on how we view our heaven, our earthly parents, and we have to be careful with that because God is not our earthly parents, and while our earthly parents may have done the best that they could with what they knew how to do or not, they're still human. And the Lord is not human, he's omniscient, he's omnipotent, he knows everything at all times. And the thing about that is that he knows your heart, he knows what you're going through, and he knows how he wants to use in the future what you've got what you're going through and what you've already gone through. So like he can see the big picture. And I think if we remember that, because we don't see the big picture, right? So if we can, even in our areas of unforgiveness and bitterness, if we can come to him and say, Lord, I don't see the big picture, but I know that you do. And here's this and what I'm struggling with, and you have to help me through it. Like I want to forgive, but I can't. And then just see what he does with that willingness to turn to him and say, I'm gonna try to decide to forgive. I want to forgive this person because I know that is what honors you, but I don't know how to do it. You know, he's gonna be able to honor that request and still use it.

SPEAKER_02 41:41

Yes, and and come with just a a feeling of expectation that he's gonna answer. Yes, yes, oh absolutely. Because, you know, you and I have talked before, like as parents, like if my kids ask me a question, they expect me to answer. Not in a bad way, but just because I'm their mom.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 42:02

And and how much more is God to be able to like he he wants us to ask him a question. He wants us to to have him come in and help us with things. Like he is just, you know, as a parent of adult children, if they ask me for my advice or help with my grandbaby or life in general, I'm right. Yes. Right. I'm here. And I feel like God is is the same with me. Like, Amy, just bring it to me.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

I have all of these resources and I love you, and I'll hold you and I'll walk through it with you. You just have to come to me because he won't force his way in my life.

SPEAKER_01 42:51

Right. Oh, that's absolutely he is a gentleman above all gentlemans, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

Yes. So he's I love doing life with him is so wonderful and difficult because I make it difficult. Yes, right, right. For him, he's like, this is simple. Right. Right. So um, okay, so in closing, you know, if there's a woman listening right now who knows she's bitter and knows that she feels um unforgiveness and completely overwhelmed, what what's something that you would say to her?

SPEAKER_01 43:33

I would say that don't be don't be scared to step into the journey of forgiveness because it's not weakness. Being willing to forgive is not a weakness. In fact, it's very strong. It shows a trust of the Lord. Um, and while that may just be a budding trust, it may just be a an inkling of trust, it's still trust. And like the Bible says, faith the size of a mustard seed can move a mountain. So it just takes a small trust to turn to him. And it's not weakness, but it's also not denying your hurt. It when you begin the journey of forgiveness, it it doesn't deny or negate the fact that you've been hurt and it doesn't justify the other person's actions. So don't be afraid to start this journey because it's worth it. It's worth it for you and for your relationship with Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

Wonderful. Um, so as we close, would you mind uh praying over the women listening um who need who need this courage because it does take courage to to even have that one first step. Yeah, it does.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

Oh heavenly Father, we just thank you that you have come as our savior, Lord, that forgiveness was on your mind when you stepped out of heaven as a baby. Lord, I pray that as we think about our own forgiveness journeys, Lord, that you would be in the midst of that, that above all we would seek you and your will for our lives. Above all, that we would understand that this is a healing and a journey that you want us to take. And Lord God, I pray that you would just solidify our hearts with courage and strength and stamina, Lord, as we go into this journey, because we know that it's a journey and it does take some time, but Lord God, you are the giver of all good things, and this is a journey that you want us on. So, Lord, I pray that you um bring your peace and your patience, Lord, to our lives as we seek to um just take this journey in a way that would honor and glorify you. And we pray these things in Jesus' name.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

Amen.

unknown 46:14

Amen.

SPEAKER_02 46:14

All right, and before we go, you had mentioned a book that you're writing. Yes. So um, so tell us a little bit about that, and just real fast. And um, and if you're willing to have people, you know, reach out to you if they're interested in it.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

Oh, absolutely. Um, the book that I'm have put together by the grace of God, there's so many God stories that has gone into this and how this has all come about. Um, but it's called uh The Power of Forgiveness from Pain to Peace. And it it expounds on the three steps that I had explained earlier, um, the expose or the uh discover and expose and restore. Um and it just unpacks this journey that we were talking about, and it gives you step by step, and not that I'm big on step-by-step things, but it really does lay out this journey. I'm hopeful in a way that makes it easy for women to um press into this journey and makes them feel like they're not alone in this journey. And um, so that's my kind of my hope for the book. I'm hoping that it's gonna be out in the spring. Um, and then it's also going to incorporate um an online support as well, in in some sense, whether that's a group or um maybe one-on-one uh counseling. So don't exactly know what all that's gonna look like. But I would love to hear from you if this is something that you're interested in. My email is going to be in the show notes, and I would just love to hear from you.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for coming on and your heart for this and all of your wisdom in this. Um, and I just appreciate you so much.

SPEAKER_01 47:59

Well, it's been a joy. It is an absolute joy to join you and to be able to minister to to your group of people. And ladies, I I love Amy's heart towards you. She loves you and she um is cheering for you on your journey, and it's just exciting to get to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_02 48:15

All right. Well, thank you, and have a great rest of your day. Thank you, you too.