My Golf Source
Attention Golf Enthusiasts! Level up your golf game with hosts Darren Penquite and Noah Horstman, PGA as they keep you up to date on the latest trends, equipment, training aids and more. Learn tips and tricks from PGA Professionals to lower your score and grow your love for the game of golf.
My Golf Source
Finding the Perfect Match: Golf Balls
Golf balls are perhaps the most underrated equipment choice, with premium options offering scientifically-engineered performance benefits that can significantly impact your game. The fundamental differences between premium and budget balls extend far beyond marketing, affecting everything from distance and spin to feel and control.
• Golf ball technology has advanced dramatically, with balls now featuring between two and five layers for optimized performance
• Tour professionals carefully select their golf balls based on precise performance characteristics that match their swing and playing style
• Premium golf balls maintain optimal performance for approximately 11 rounds before degrading
• The dimple pattern on golf balls significantly impacts aerodynamics, affecting distance and trajectory
• Proper grip fundamentals are often the quickest fix for improving ball striking
• Chipping stance and setup dramatically influence your ability to create proper contact and spin
• Quail Hollow's challenging course design features extreme elevation changes and specialized rough that punishes even slight misses
• Custom-logoed golf balls can serve as effective marketing tools while helping you identify your ball
Next week we'll be testing the Kirkland Signature ball against other premium options, and answering listener questions about equipment and technique. Send us your questions through any podcast platform you use to listen to us!
Welcome to the my golf source podcast. Welcome to my golf source. I'm Darren and I'm Noah. Pga tour Championship in full swing as we speak.
Speaker 2:Pretty exciting stuff where they're playing, don't you think? Quail Hollow? Right yeah, quail Hollow.
Speaker 1:And you have a backstory with that course.
Speaker 2:I do indeed. Let's hear it First of all how's your week been?
Speaker 1:I'm so excited to get into that, but let's.
Speaker 2:Game on. Yeah, so week's been good. Lots going on around here. Golf Garage is in full swing Again. It's one of those weird ones where weather's changing again. We've got some rain in the forecast this week, or the temps are not getting above 60, and people are coming in, especially in the morning.
Speaker 1:So we uh took one week off of simly because that eight-week session ended. Now we're beginning a new one tonight yes, and normally we record this after simly tonight we're recording it before yeah, yeah, and we're doing. We're trying a different format, yeah do you know what it is? It's not a two-man sc, it's yeah, so we're.
Speaker 2:We're going to have multiple formats, so we're going to do two man scramble. We're going to do two man super drive. We're going to be doing four ball.
Speaker 1:So more of a one net, one gross, and we choose potentially yeah, we choose whoever has the best net and whoever has the best gross.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what we're doing tonight, right, I'm, I'm, uh, I'm not gross, uh, yeah, so basically we're just going to spread it all out throughout the eight weeks and do different formats in a two-man so that way we can do some head-to-head stuff against other two-man teams, kind of get to know everybody within it, versus playing just your normal four person um, just playing with your boys, which is super fun too. But if you go into your traditional league play at a golf course, it's usually head to head. So you're like you know you're a four-man team, but two of you are against two other people, and then your teammates might be in the group behind you against somebody. So just get to know guys. I think it's a good way of networking. Um, you know, we're building relationships at golf garage, that's what it's all about.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 2:So you know quill hollow PGA championship. Um, very, very fortunate to move across the country and be the director of instruction at beach, my country club in Cleveland, ohio, for seven years. Um, in that time I was around a lot of good golf professionals. Some of the best players in the country came out of our section, the Northern Ohio Section PGA. It's one of those where if you weren't shooting under par in professional events, you weren't making any money, and these are on tour caliber golf courses. It's a hidden gem, cleveland, ohio, especially the east side, where you've got all courses between 1899 and 1923 on the private club side. So you're dealing with super fast, super slopey greens. Um, the ones that have been renovated are stretched out over 7,000 yards and they're par 71s, so that would be the equivalent of almost a 7,300 yard golf course here. Um, you know a lot of undulation, rolling Hills bunkering that you wouldn't even imagine. I mean. Um, fairway bunkers are placed in the most strategic of areas on the course and and they're just so well designed Stanley Thompson was our course architect that if you're into that architecture you would know him.
Speaker 2:But the short of it was I was there for a couple of years and a new professional came in. His name was Jason Hanson, always known in the area as a good player, and Jason and I got to know each other really well because he became our first assistant at Beachmont while I was the director of instruction, and in that time, you know, jason was just a powerhouse in our section. He wasn't the longest hitter, but he just knew how to get the ball in the hole and he was really always trying to find that perfection. And it was so cool watching him because he would always go down to the driving range and he would bring two clubs with him. He would bring a driver and he would bring a wedge that was bent about six degrees upright. It wasn't the wedge he would play with either, so this was a training aid wedge that he would utilize to try to make his swing more vertical and to feel comfortable with.
Speaker 1:And then over-exaggerated it to force him into the right 100% right. So when we talk about tricks and tips, it's all about over-exaggerating the opposite in order to get to the neutral or find that impact position right, and you do that in training and not on the course, like when I try to correct a slice and I over correct and I'm pulling yeah, without question.
Speaker 2:So you're, you're training on the range, so to speak, or in the simulator bay, and you're trying to get the comfort level that you can have to take it to the course. So that way when you take it to the course in those practice rounds, you're able to then try it in tournament play right, or when it counts are under pressure, so to speak. So, getting back into where you know, I was lucky enough to stand behind Jason on the range quite a few times. He would always want video taken or opinions on things. We taught golf in the office and it was just a really, really fun, fun guy to hang out with. And I just remember one day on the bottom of Beachmont we had a chipping green kind of the left side of the range and he wanted to hit some balls uphill and I'll never kind of forget that I noticed one little piece in his swing with his footwork and I mentioned it to him and you know we talked about it for a half hour before he even hit another ball and the next thing, you know, he's just striping it and he picked up some distance and he hit the shot that he wanted to hit. And so it's so strange when you're with a good player versus your average new golfer, where you're really not rebuilding anything or trying to recreate a swing right, they already have their golf swing. You're trying to find those basic fundamentals and the root cause of the problem for that golfer. That gives them what they want, because they know what they want to see and when they see it you can't be beat. At that point some feel good, correct. So you know I know that feeling as a player. But jason's a true player, right, he?
Speaker 2:Um went through some qualifying and played in our section championship and he finished in the top three in our section championship, which then took him to the national club pro, or the PGA professional championship as it's called now, and he finished in the top 20 in that event, actually had a chance to win it. And because he was in the top 20 in that event, actually had a chance to win it. And, uh, because he was in the top 20 at the national event, he made it to the PGA championship at Quail Hollow. So ultimately, you know we're all just pumped for him, as we, you know, see this happen.
Speaker 2:I remember texting with him a few times during the tournament to qualify for quail um, and you know he gets back, you know, and obviously he's on cloud nine, but you, you know he's in, he's in work mode, just the standard club pro. He's gotta. He's gotta do his normal daily tasks. But, uh, um, I'll never forget when he's telling me the story about how he you know how he was playing and just like where he was at, and, um, you know, and at the end of it, um, you know, he kind of brings up. He's like, well, you're going to be there, right, and I'm like what do you mean? He's like you're going to come to the PGA championship with me, aren't you?
Speaker 1:You're my coach, I'm just like come on.
Speaker 2:I was like yeah, like that's all, if you, if you're inviting me and I'm there, I'll miss my anniversary, my kid's birthday, whatever it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you don't there man.
Speaker 2:So I didn't really know what that meant at the time. Um, but he's like here, I just got some information, so you're going to be my instructor at the pga championship and I literally just I, I I didn't know what to say, right, I wanted to just hug him. I'm like, wow, this is so cool. So I didn't you know. Look, it was our first first time going down and, and you know, like I said, I mean Jason's a really good golfer and we get to quail hollow is his caddy, brad, jason and myself, and we get down there and trying to get the lay of the land. There's nothing you can do to prepare for that for your first time. So, ultimately, we all had experience, but we're trying to learn from what the tour players are doing.
Speaker 2:And Jason had his rhythm and he was was going through stuff and he just wasn't quite happy with his driver and I remember him um having one of the reps come out, put him on track man, which is a launch monitor system I think most people know what that is at this point and he was just trying to dial in his numbers and he just spent hours and hours and hours and just starts wrapping up and then all of a sudden and he's the only one on the range too so then all of a sudden Bryson DeChambeau comes up and hits like two down and you know a few of the other guys Rory, I think, saw on the range at that point too, and he decides that you know what, I'm just going to stay here and we're going to, we're going to hang out for a few more minutes, what I'm just going to stay here and we're going to, we're going to hang out for a few more minutes. So just really fun. I mean, he had a ball or two. You know he wasn't, he was just kind of enjoying the experience, which was really cool. Um, but you know you're there on, you know, a Sunday or a Monday to get ready to go play on.
Speaker 1:Thursday.
Speaker 2:And so, you know, we, we get there, and then the the next day I remember he still wanted to work on that driver. So I remember him sending me over to the tour truck. You know one of the responsibilities was just whatever he needs, right, it doesn't matter. It's like, hey, you need a water, I'm there for you. So go into the tour truck. And you know it was funny because At the time tiger woods was on staff with TaylorMade Golf.
Speaker 2:So I go into this truck and these guys are working like crazy. Tuesday is kind of the tweak day. You're right, tuesday tweak day, trying to figure out what they need. And then Wednesday they're trying to get comfortable with it, and Thursday they go play with it if they decide to. So you know, I go in there and I'm kind of sheepish because I didn't know how to handle those guys at the time. I knew a few of them. But I'm just like, hey, you know, my guy needs this and okay, yeah, uh, it's going to be a little bit. We're in the middle of this.
Speaker 2:And then I sit in there, you know, just waiting for it, and then we kind of talk a little bit more. I'm like, yeah, what do you guys? You know, for T, for T dub or I can't even remember. There was like a nickname they even use, but it was something like that and I was like oh, uh, oh, for tiger, yep, yep, yep, he's wanting these and I'm like nice, so they, let me look at them and I mean it was just such a cool experience to be in there and you know, we get back and we get Jason stuff dialed in and, um, um, I would just say that, golf course, you know if we, if we switch for a second here into the course, is one of the biggest golf courses I've ever seen. So, like, what does big mean? Right, we always talk about augusta being a big golf course and and whatnot, but quail is just like huge drop-offs and slopes everywhere like walks between between tee boxes, between greens and tee boxes.
Speaker 2:I mean it's a long walk. It's a really long walk, right.
Speaker 1:Because the average 18-hole course is what about a five-mile walk?
Speaker 2:Yeah, five, six miles, right, and they're going another three at Quail. But it's not even about the length that you're walking, it's about if you miss it in the wrong spot. Spot, your ball goes 50 yards somewhere you don't want it to and the rough is not like anything. There's a special rough there that if it grows above three inches, your ball goes down in it and you don't see it, you don't see it.
Speaker 2:So jason has the shot on a par three. He misses the green by three feet, but he's in the rough and his ball is four inches down and he's chipping at 10 feet. So he had to learn how to chip a new shot, essentially Like it was insane to me the style of grass and how difficult that course is If you don't hit it exactly where you want to and long. So when you're looking at who's going to win this week, you're looking for the bombers, right. You're looking for Bryson. You're looking for bryson. You're looking for rory, you're looking for, you know, maybe jt, if he's on, because he knows how to win there.
Speaker 2:He hits it straight, but straight and long. That's what's going to win this week. They can all putt. And the other thing is the par fives are gettable, but nothing else is really gettable. When you look at birdies and it's true, it's just like the whole locations are insane, um, that they put them in and there's these ridges that the tv doesn't do justice to that, because the greens are so fast. You have to play so much more break and have to be so precise with your putter if you're not in the exact spot that you're going to three putt most likely, or have a 10 to 15 footer left and with the hole placement.
Speaker 1:If you miss the hole, you have nothing less than a 13 foot putt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. So 10 to 15 feet for sure. And if you're chipping there's not a lot of places to chip from because the way the collection areas work and the way the rough is so deep around the greens you've got to hit greens regulation. And the greens are fairly big. I mean it's not like they're small, it's just there's so much slopes to them that if you're not on the proper shelf with those weird ridges and spines that run through them, you know it's almost like there's three small greens within one.
Speaker 1:And you're not just reading one break, you're reading two, maybe three breaks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, without question. Without question, I mean, it's a super pure golf course. So there's not really a reason and that's why they're talking about like. These guys are chipping in like crazy this week, more so than we've seen in a while.
Speaker 1:They're getting aggressive because the greens are tough to pot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're starting to understand how to play the golf course, I think too, with it being the second PGA in recent years there. But what's really cool about this golf course is you're in North Carolina and it's humid and it rains this time of year, but they have a system in place that sucks the water out of the ground.
Speaker 1:I've seen that the underground vacuum ventilation system that dries out the greens Yep.
Speaker 2:So ultimately, that system can make the greens back to as fast as you want, within like a half an hour, that's nuts. So they won't use that system during play, because that would be, you know, it wouldn't be fair or equitable for every player. But if they do it ahead of time, it's pretty cool. It's called Subair and it's just an awesome, awesome system.
Speaker 1:So what's the deal with these experts who came in? They were so confident about Rory and Scheffler taking this thing and Rory's tied for 94th.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what's unique about this Right now.
Speaker 1:He's not easy. I mean, I'm assuming he didn't make the cut today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so just quickly on that. What's unique about the golf course is it really does depend on when you play it right. They were in the morning. I believe. Rory was at like 820 in the morning and the leaders were just out, so that might've been an advantage today.
Speaker 1:So let's let's talk about that. Courses obviously will change throughout the day. When it's cold in the morning, obviously, the conditions are different. There's dew, you know. The courses are damp. Whatever the case may be, these are factors that have such minimal effect on the pros, or do they?
Speaker 2:No, they definitely do. I think the difference is the pros can adapt faster than your average golfer, right? So I'm a college golf coach, right at a division two university and these are up and coming players. We have the talent that I'd say. Three of these players have the ability to potentially be on tour sooner than the remaining right there's just that's the talent level that they're at. What I always try to talk to them about is, by the third hole they adapted. Right, they adapted. So if their swing wasn't there or if there's something happening where their carry numbers are, you know they're. They're under clubbing for some reason. Don't try to figure it out with the swing, just know that it's not going as far, right? There's something so strange with logical thinking. People think they need to read into more than what it really is.
Speaker 1:Hey.
Speaker 2:I left a putt short. Three holes in a row. Something wrong with my stroke.
Speaker 1:No, just hit it harder. There's something wrong with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just hit it harder, right? So the tour players are such good ball strikers that whoever gets it in the hole the fastest on the green is going to win the golf tournament. That's it.
Speaker 2:True, Because even you know, and the other thing too. I mean every tour player has a launch monitor on the range with it's got so much data built into it that they can control environments, Like they can put humidity and plug that in. Some of them even check it, right. So, with that being said, they know how far the ball's going. The altitude's plugged in, right, Right, I mean so when you have something that's measuring the ball with radar, it's watching the ball. So if you use that unit.
Speaker 1:You can feel the wind, you can feel the temperature, you can feel the humidity.
Speaker 2:By the end of the day. If they're unsure, they're just going to pull their launch monitor out and just check it before they go, and then they're going to club off of that. The rest of the way it's pretty simple.
Speaker 1:And if after three holes they're still coming up 10 yards short, they add one more club to everything they do Well, and I think with a tour player it might be pretty quick.
Speaker 2:I don't even think it's three holes. I think it's within a hole or two, because they know their game so well. It's their living.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:That if something is, the swing feels good, they're feeling good and something's changed, they will make a change. They're not afraid to do that and I think when you finally understand what your swing's supposed to feel like, it's okay to make a change when you finally understand what your swing's supposed to feel like, it's okay to make a change.
Speaker 1:So there's some changes that can take immediate effect and there's others that don't. A perfect example in the last several days here, my son went from not being able to hit a driver at all to pounding the heck out of his driver right down the center of the fairway in a matter of 10 minutes with one simple tip Correct. How did you fix that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Toby is such a good ball striker and I think he knows it, but he's super young.
Speaker 1:Right 13.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean expectation management is key. So I think I'm starting to realize how to teach Toby.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Right. I mean, I think that's number one. It's kind of like less is more number one and I think that's that's a good tip, I think, for a lot of golfers. How much do you feed them, even adults?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Even you know less is always more. And then you feed a little bit more and a little bit more. You just don't want to overfeed, because then you're screwed, you've got to back up, yeah, and ultimately with Toby, there was a couple of things. Number one the basic fundamental of the grip got sloppy, right, right.
Speaker 1:I didn't know where his grip was before, but I know that it was a change in in grip that literally changed his ability to hit the club Grip's funny.
Speaker 2:Grip will allow the club face to be square. Grip will control your turn. It will allow you to turn your body or not, depending on how you hold it. So grip is super important. But I'm okay with strong grips or stronger grips. I'm okay with neutral grips, right, I don't really teach a weak grip. There's not too many golfers out there with success with a weak grip, um but. But ultimately everyone's a little different and so by testing and there's lots of ways to test we will find the right grip for that player. And so, toby, he's growing. He is such a tough kid to teach right now because between 12 and 17.
Speaker 1:His body mechanics are changing month over month he's getting stronger.
Speaker 2:He's getting so much stronger, so it's making it easier.
Speaker 1:Stronger, taller, heavier.
Speaker 2:So there's a lot of things that are happening that are good right now for him and, ultimately, what? What, besides the grip he was just aiming off? So you had two basic fundamentals that were pre-swing fundamentals that we modified, that I then had to just remind him to make a golf swing from there, and it was instant.
Speaker 1:Yep, correction. And then you watched me chipping out here on your angulated green and you said your stance is so screwed up, let's completely restart this, let's change it. And I was actually getting to the point to where I was chipping pretty well with that, but you changed it. And now I'm blading balls across the green, but it's getting better with some work, but it's not a here do this and it's an instant fix.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of things in your golf swing, I think, that are instant gratification grip. Changing your grip, you know, and then completely changing your stance in the way you're addressing the ball is something that takes a little while to get used to.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to actually disagree with you on the grip. The grip is the hardest thing to learn Really, because it's your proprioception, it's your feel. You make one small change to the grip, it changes everything. So the that toby was able to modify that quickly is actually very impressive. Maybe just the fact that he's 13 and I'm 43 he probably doesn't care he's just, and part of it too, is like I think toby's a good listener.
Speaker 2:When I ask him to do something, he doesn't question it, he just kind of believes it. The problem is he doesn't always understand what it's supposed to look like, because he's 13. So he's not paying attention to the detail of it. So I think some of that is that for you, you've done it the same way for a long time, and the same way you've done it has rarely worked. It may never ever work.
Speaker 1:Yet you still do it the same way and maybe you modify something here and there and, to be completely honest, a lot of the changes that I make work for a time and then they don't work anymore and that's why we do them.
Speaker 2:You hit a couple golf shots and they work right.
Speaker 1:And then I'm not even talking about a couple of golf shots. I'm talking about a period of a couple few months. Is that right?
Speaker 2:yeah, I'm, I'm dead serious, but are you practicing that same method as much as a player?
Speaker 2:recreational, exactly right so you might be able to like. I've seen golfers that literally have some of the worst fundamentals swing mechanics out there and they can shoot some of the best scores because they know their golf swing. They know how it feels. They do it the same way every single time. When you're searching for something or it doesn't go well, that's when you get into trouble, right, and usually it's a mental thought that says oh, this doesn't feel the same way, I'm just going to modify, and then that modification doesn't work and then it turns into four or five other bad habits. So what we did with you was we definitely changed how you were delivering the club to the ball and the way we did that was through understanding low point. And now the problem is you have to be able to control low point and because you are breaking down your wrists and almost flipping it every single shot you hit right, it's a very difficult concept to grasp, because now you can deliver the club to the ball properly, yet you still want to flip after.
Speaker 1:So here's what I noticed immediately. Let's talk about my stance. Before I was standing in front of the ball, I was pointing my toes at more than a 45-degree angle between where the ball is and where the hole is. I was facing forward. I almost had the handle of my club pushed way in front of me because I'm facing downrange, turned into a butter knife and I was actually starting to get I was actually becoming comfortable with the fact that I could hit the shots in the direction and the distance that I wanted to hit them by doing that. That's what kind of forced me into using and falling in love with the 69 degree wedge, because by doing that, although I was getting the distance in the direction I wanted, I had no control of spin and I was having a really hard time getting the ball to stop. And the first shot that I hit when you changed my stance, as uncomfortable as it felt, the first clean shot that I hit in that stance, the ball checked up immediately yeah, yeah, without question.
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh, now I get it. Well, and what's funny about what you were doing was it was so specific to the timing of how you're going to use your hands and your wrists in the golf swing. You had to time it up so perfectly to try to even find the club face when you were back in your stance open stance and then where you were at, where it was all hands right and the leading edge at that point wanted to be a knife, and so you would have to flip, and then you would have to throw your weight onto your back foot at the same time. Right, hang back and flip. Right, you're the king of the scene, baby, you're flipper. And at the end of the day, I'm like number one. Why are you open? Do you know why you're open? Right, and and and.
Speaker 1:Then I kind of went into like just kept on moving forward and forward and I was like squares are okay Because I was sick of chunking it yeah exactly, and there is some truth to being able to have a very open stance for certain golfers and doing it Like.
Speaker 2:I've seen that and it'll work because you're On a bump and run type shot. Well, and even on a wedge, because you're trying to figure out bounce, but the way you use your hands, it's never going to work for you. It was actually adding salt in the wound, if you will. Okay, right, so now what we were doing is trying to get you square to square. We're trying to get you more closed with your stance and get you pretty square to the target.
Speaker 1:And a much higher backswing, which is a very unusual feeling for me.
Speaker 2:Nobody understands that Like just because you make a big backswing doesn't mean the ball needs to go far. You have 69 degrees of loft. You have 56 degrees of loft.
Speaker 1:This is because I was using a 58.
Speaker 2:100% right. But what will happen now is, because we did that, that ball position got to a good place where the club is going to be delivered in the right manner, and the ball will now hit the face and run up the face and when it runs up the face it turns into sandpaper to this soft rubber ball, depending on what kind of ball you're using to talk about, correct?
Speaker 2:and then that adds additional rpms or backspin onto that ball and it hits and it stops. So there's two ways to stop a ball. Right loft well, descent angle right right.
Speaker 2:So just because you have loft doesn't mean you have yeah, I mean it's. It's kind of one of those. What do I need optimally to get the ball to stop here on a firm green versus a soft green? So condition of the green matters a lot. If it's a soft green, I don't want to throw it in the air, I want to keep it low and I don't want to use a lot of loft. Well, yeah, cause it's already going to hit and stop. So if you're playing in the Northwest, north of us, especially in the wintertime, you better figure out what wedge you're going to use into a green, cause otherwise it's going to hit and stop with all the rain they get up there, right, doesn't matter what ball you play. Um, you know your goal is to try to learn how. You know how to figure out what trajectory I need that day, along with the spin. I think it's sometimes harder to put spin on a golf ball and that's why they make different golf balls Just help you with that.
Speaker 1:Right. So speaking of golf balls and we promised last week that we'd be talking about golf balls today you know we feel like there's for everything you gain by switching golf ball, you're losing something. For example, everybody knows the Pro V1, and then they came out with the Pro V1X and you have TaylorMade's TP5 and TP5X. The Xs are going to give you more distance. They're a little bit harder feel. I can feel it when I hit them. They definitely undisputably give you more distance. But when you go to the little bit softer ball with the TP5 or the Pro V1, you can feel that softer impact. You're going to have more control, you're going to see your spin increase, but you might lose a couple of yards where I mean when it comes to fitting a golf ball to somebody, which is almost as important as fitting a club, and I guess I guess it. You know it's somewhat dependent on the conditions of the course you're playing as well. But where do you, how do you decide, to sacrifice distance to increase spin or sacrifice spin to get more distance?
Speaker 2:yeah, no, that's a great question and it's player preference and what I mean by player preference. We talked about this with Dino Antonucci from Titleist a few weeks ago, where we talked about shaft and I said player preference and he said it in his own way. But that's ideally what shaft is is you're trying to feel something right. So with a golf ball, I think it really comes down to asking a lot of questions to a player, and most players don't ever think about their ball. I'm going to play this because that's what the TV told me to play, Right, Right. So marketing has a big, big emphasis on that and you know I actually have what nine, two ball packs in front of me right now, just so I look through it. And you know you and I can talk more about all of it. At this point in time in the marketplace there are so many good golf balls.
Speaker 2:Everybody is making an amazing golf ball to Callaway, tailor-made uh Titleist here's the deal, though the golf ball can only be so fast off of a club face in order for it to be illegal. It's called the right. So if a golf ball is flying too fast, it's deemed illegal and it will not pass a cannon that they shoot these golf balls out of at a rapid speed. And there's somebody in this booth and it's a loud cannon. Even the booth it's loud and they're looking at numbers all day just to see what spin rates are doing and launches are doing, and all that. So what people don't realize is this is just aerodynamics. If you change the dimple pattern of a golf ball deeper, shallower, um, hexagonal right what about the finish from shiny finish to a?
Speaker 1:you know?
Speaker 2:so that is just paint and that's what people have to realize. The golf balls are painted, yeah, but does that change? The aerodynamics I don't think it changes it that much. There's potential, but most of the time it's more about the dimple pattern because and then it's about what they use inside the ball, like what kind of rubber. It's not just about a rubber right. It's not a wound ball anymore. It's not a with a rubber center core right.
Speaker 2:It's a multi-layered different density of rubber it's exactly right, and it's where do they get it from Right. So these guys are all searching for the best products in the world at this point in time.
Speaker 1:And does every golf ball have to be precisely the exact same weight?
Speaker 2:Yes, so golf balls are designed that way, however.
Speaker 1:And a dimpled ball. I watched a documentary on this months back. They started adding dimples to the ball because they have far better aerodynamics and a perfectly smooth ball.
Speaker 2:Correct. So lift and drag right Airplanes, that's the best thing we can think about. We need lift and we need some drag in order to take off in an airplane and keep it up in the air. So what you're looking for with the ball is lift and drag, but we want spin right. So ultimately, depending on the golfer, they're going to need a different category of ball Potentially. Here's what I want to tell everybody. First and foremost, I've spent a lot of time with Taylor made only because I'm on the national fitting council. So we talk a lot about golf ball and I learned a lot, you know and I and I think it goes hand in hand with every other company, and I do want to say this like every manufacturer sells clubs and drivers their golf ball companies first, why? Because a golf ball is expensive. An average golf ball costs probably $5, 50 bucks a box for premium golf balls.
Speaker 2:right, you're somewhere in that four to $5 range for a premium golf ball and you're going to lose it and after 11 rounds of golf it goes bad or cracks potentially if you keep it that long. Right, so everybody wants to be a golf ball manufacturer, but what I want to get to is we have options. We have two piece golf balls, three piece golf balls, four piece golf balls, five, up to five. Right now I they've tried six too, and what I wanted to kind of talk about is like they used to talk about compression and, like dustin johnson and the tour players, right when he was on, you know, taylor made like you got to get to the core, to get to maximize the ball. Well, it's not like that anymore. They're so good with the science of the ball that a average golfer can play a premium ball and it will give them more so 100 and and I'm, I'm a I can attest to that 100 right I can attest to playing a cheap.
Speaker 2:You know, big five, special, you know costco kirkland, baby you, those are premium though, by the way which are actually not not terrible golf balls. Same same plant as Titleist there's a lawsuit?
Speaker 1:I there was, but what are they doing now? Is it different or is it still the same?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, ultimately, kirkland has to be careful. I think they probably learned their lesson off of that one.
Speaker 1:It's like $24 for two dozen premium golf balls. That's the best deal around.
Speaker 2:If you're confident in what you play, I don't think it matters. I can play with a ladies golf ball in a social park.
Speaker 1:You can't go down to Walmart and buy a box of Top Flight for that. That's true, it's true. But you hit some of these inexpensive golf balls that you get in the sporting goods department at Walmart and it inexpensive golf balls that you get in the sporting goods department at Walmart and it feels like you're hitting a stone. They're rock hard. They just don't feel good, they're not very responsive. You hit a premium golf ball and when you hit the center of the club face you feel that compression on the golf ball and I can't even describe to you there's a lot of things that are inappropriate to say how good that feels, but it feels really good when you feel a premium golf ball compress off the center of your club face, no matter what club you're hitting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. This is. I've got two really good stories right now about premium versus non. I'm giving a putting lesson at beach ball country club, probably five or six years ago, to this woman, really good friend, and she just goes out and says I can't tell the difference between a golf ball. I'm just going to do this and I I can't tell the difference between a golf ball. I'm just going to do this.
Speaker 2:And she was a decent enough player that she probably should have been playing a three or four piece golf ball, probably in that mid category to premium category, but she didn't want to. You know, she's like oh, I just don't feel the difference, I'm just going to play this two piece ball. It was costing her strokes for sure as far as spin and feel around the greens. So I did a test with her. I spin and feel around the greens. So I did a test with her and I said, okay, well, let's just see. So I said I want you to make some practice swings for me and I had a range ball and I had a premium ball Range balls are two piece golf balls cheap.
Speaker 2:You know hard, durable, they need to be durable. You know hard, durable, they need to be durable. Very thick, cover all that. So I had her putt with it and she hits it with her eyes closed because I just put the ball in the way, basically. So then I said good job, you know, I want you to keep your eyes closed. I want you to do it again. Does it again. She didn't even know what I was doing, by the way, I just I just tricked her, I just wanted her to know. So then, uh, I think I put a Callaway, you know Chrome, soft or something like that, in the way and she hits it, she opens her eyes. She's like, well, that felt different. It's like, oh, it did. It's like, well, what did you notice on the balls? The last one felt really soft, it felt softer.
Speaker 2:You felt that compression and I was like, oh okay. Well, do you remember two minutes ago when you told me you couldn't feel the difference in a ball? You just hit a premium ball versus range ball, and it wasn't about result, because her eyes were closed. I actually picked up the balls before she looked. But it opened her eyes it literally was like oh my gosh, Okay cool, you did it Like that makes total sense. And I have one other one Go ahead.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, here at the golf garage, when you first opened, you were having TP5Xs in all of the ranges. It did not take but a few weeks for those balls, with the amount of play that they were getting, to start breaking down severely.
Speaker 2:So we went to a three-piece ball, you went to a practice range. No, we did not. It's a premium ball. It says practice on it, so nobody steals on it. They're still premium. So they say, practice just like that TP5 right there.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So it's a premium ball, but it's a three piece instead of a five piece.
Speaker 1:Well then, maybe it was the amount of play that those balls were getting, because we actually my teammates and I in league put them to the test on the sim, that's right I remember hit five ball. We hit five shots each and all three of us who were put doing this test, we had a total of 10 shots five with the practice balls and five with a premium golf ball, fresh brand new out of her golf bag, and there was close to 20 yards difference on average.
Speaker 2:You know it's, it's interesting and that's not a mental thing, yeah, no, I mean, you're testing it and you're absolutely right. So thing, yeah, no, I mean, you're testing it and you're absolutely right. So I'm on Calloway staff at the time and I'm I got invited to go down to Carlsbad for a PGA magazine ambassador trip and they gave us a tour of TaylorMade and the kingdom and it's like anyone's dream, just like Calloway, like everyone has this tour department. And you're just like, wow, this is so cool. Like everyone got fit here, tiger got fit here, right. So you go through it.
Speaker 2:And they were trying to sell me on the Taylor made ball and I'm on Callaway staff, right. So I'm just like no, no, no, I like my Callaway ball, I'm happy with it, all this stuff. And and they're like, oh no, no, we're guaranteeing that this is going to go farther for you and it's going to feel better. And I'm like, okay, great. So we get up there and they've got GC quad out, they got track man out, both at the same time, just to show me that this tailor-made ball is going to be better. So I hit a drive and I hit my Callaway and I hit it pretty solid and it goes out there like 275, 280,. You know nothing, I'm not ripping it, I'm just swinging.
Speaker 2:No total like total.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my, my carry.
Speaker 2:My carry distance is probably 265, but I'm super, super efficient, so it rolls out to 300. On a standard day, right, 310 is a kind of a max total for me. That's what I like, um. But then I take this taylor made golf ball and I hit it and it goes about eight yards farther and I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, it's fine I him.
Speaker 1:I'm just like, yeah, whatever, yeah, whatever, yeah, yeah, whatever. I'm more warmed up now.
Speaker 2:I'm like, shoot. I'm just like, oh no, so I get up on Callaway staff, so I can't let this happen. So I, you know, I get my ball out again and I just freaking rip at it and, uh, you know, I I'll drive the tailor made by about four or five yards. And then they gave me a tailor-made again. I'm like, all right, yeah, I hit it again. And so I just they don't know it, but I eased up on it and I was just like gosh, dang it. It's like, yeah, I like mine. And at the time, right, I mean, I'm still on the staff.
Speaker 2:And you're eased up with the same distance as your Callaway, and it's a funny story. Ultimately, I'm on TaylorMade staff now, ironically, so it's not one's better than the other. Was that? Was that the deciding factor? No, I mean, yeah, maybe. No, you know, I want to hit it farther, so uh you. Oddly enough with the whole thing, though, is that everybody makes a good golf ball, and everybody can make the golf ball go that far, but they are going to sacrifice something.
Speaker 1:So right, what are you willing? Well, my very first point was in this discussion.
Speaker 2:So what are you willing to sacrifice? Are you willing to sacrifice spin?
Speaker 1:Or distance Right, but it's one of those two right Well, so balls.
Speaker 2:I always like this.
Speaker 1:Time equals control distance. Well, equals having to hit one less iron, but too much spin doesn't help you either.
Speaker 2:So when we fit for clubs, let's use club ball analogy here, right? So, like when I'm fitting for a club and a driver, I'm trying to get between 10 to 12 launch for your average golfer in two to 3000 spin. So let's say, this golfer is hitting it at 10 launch, but they're spinning it at 1700. They're like you're like man, what can I do? Well, if they're playing TP five, x, I can put them a TP five and get them 300 more launch right there. So now our fitting is done, right, they're hitting it good, they got it. We just got to change ball. So I could literally fit ball at the same time as hitting club, if I know what I'm doing. The difference too is that you're not going to feel a huge difference in putting and chipping If it's that same kind of concept. Um, the other thing thing is like we have a lot of golfers that don't necessarily need that TP5 or X and there's tour response. The tour responses are great.
Speaker 1:I like those.
Speaker 2:It's an awesome ball. It feels super soft, so tell me where does the tour response fit?
Speaker 1:What is the difference between that and the tp5? And?
Speaker 2:the tp5. Well again, like you can say, played it and I like it but. I don't know what I like about it you probably like the feel of it, based on what you're saying to me right now. Is you like to feel something soft, right, ultimately?
Speaker 2:especially at the face of the of a driver or a long iron yeah, and I would say they are good at changing covers of golf balls and that allows you to feel something different. Right, and it's a urethane cover, obviously, so it's just a different feel. In general, one of the best ball companies, I think, is Bridgestone. Bridgestone is super underrated. They've been in the rubber business for how long? With tires, right, so they have the sourcing. And why did Tiger go from Titleist to TaylorMade to Bridgestone, right? The guy I mean or, I'm sorry, nike, he never played TaylorMade, he went, I think he went Titleist to Nike to Bridgestone and the Titleist ball's crazy because I remember being on, I'm sorry, the Nike ball's crazy.
Speaker 1:The Pro V1 was the only ball to have about 10 years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it was like the professional and there was like a tour preferred or something. And then it went to Pro V1. And now the thing is one thing you mentioned earlier is they messed with everybody's head. So the pro V1 X is the more spinny ball. Now the pro V1 regular is the low spin ball. Well, and so you got to remember this it's not distance, it's spin. So ultimately, low spin versus high spin doesn't necessarily mean club head speed or anything. It's about how you deliver the club. So if you're delivering the club with more loft, potentially you might need a lower spin ball. So it's all relative. Sometimes attack angle and all that stuff has something to do with it as well.
Speaker 1:But doesn't the softness or the hardness of the ball have to do with distance? The harder the ball, the more distance.
Speaker 2:Not necessarily when we talk about it. We look at compression. Any of the best players in the world can compress a top or a five-piece ball. It turns it into a pancake. Have you ever seen the slow-mo?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've seen that.
Speaker 2:The difference between you and Dustin Johnson is your pancake is going to be an oval, His pancake is a pancake. When he smashes that golf ball and it becomes round again, it's a rocket ship. It's like when you take one of those bouncy balls a big one, you can kind of see it compress a little bit.
Speaker 2:It's the same idea. You're dealing with rubber. So the ball has to be durable, it has to be round, it has to have great aerodynamics for the player that is hitting that golf ball. So get fit for your golf ball from someone that knows how to fit a golf ball.
Speaker 1:And at what point. How many rounds of golf on average? I mean, assuming you don't lose a ball, how many rounds of golf on average can you get out of one ball before you should change it?
Speaker 2:so this was a great three, four I mean, it's a great question and I learned that this last year. So I asked the question down at taylor made because we were talking about testing and and people ask questions all the time if a ball's in the pond or if a ball's in the heat and like they test these balls in sub sub zero temps and they put them in the back of cars in Arizona for time after time after time. Same with golf clubs to see if the epoxy changes, like they are testing and testing, and testing and testing before something even comes out right. So this was crazy to hear, but a premium golf ball, least from taylormade, will last you 11 rounds for a higher swing speed player if you keep it that long, right, right. So the thing of it is like some golfers think that if they see a chip, on the ball.
Speaker 2:I'm making it through one round I think a lot of golfers do, which is why they're golf ball companies right, but they see a blemish on their ball and it's going to go bad. I mean there's nothing really shown that if a little bit of paint is worn off on the ball it's going to act any different. I mean, you've painted it, so that's just a thin coat relative to the entirety and integrity of that golf ball. What will change is when it gets cut through the rubber Hits cart path. If it's cut absolutely, If it's a path and there's a blemish, for most golfers it's the paint.
Speaker 1:Right. So another question when it comes to Bridgestone, strixon, taylormade, titleist, callaway, they're all making premium golf balls. There's only so many patents that are out there and every company has their own patents. Is playing a TP5X and a Pro-V1X equivalent?
Speaker 2:Again, I would go back to getting fit for that ball.
Speaker 1:I mean, technically speaking, the way the balls are constructed. There. It's two different brands, it's two premium golf balls. Is the difference between a pro v1 and pro v1x the exact same as the difference between the tp5 and tp5x?
Speaker 2:yeah, so I think so. When you look at spin rates between tp5 and tp5x, it's 300 rpms of backspin. It's the same. That way, I think they're very similar in that regards. When I putt with a Pro-V versus a TP5X, I get a different feel.
Speaker 1:What do you?
Speaker 2:feel. I feel like the Pro-V is softer. That's my feel, though that's my preference. I think that's a general consensus.
Speaker 1:I think most people who have played both would say that.
Speaker 2:And I ultimately like the feeling of a ball that doesn't feel that soft.
Speaker 1:With a putter especially.
Speaker 2:Well, I want to know where it's at the face. So I do a test, also like the blind test I talked about earlier with putting, where I will putt with my eyes closed and say long, short or perfect, and I'll open them. And if I can get that and I get the feedback and I know because I visualize that putt, I'm like, okay, this is a good stop. Chipping is huge for me. If I can get the ball to flight number one the way I want it to, and then I see a little bit of check with it, I'm a happy camper. Some of these players are like I want to see it rip back. I'm like, well, it's not going to happen in a chip number one, can you hit the center of the face. Number two, can you get 10,000 backspin with your eight iron 100%.
Speaker 2:So actually that's a good one, right? So launch monitors now will tell you what optimal is based on clubs. So, based on the loft of a club, when you're looking at a wedge, you're looking at wanting to launch it between 28 and 30 as far as launch angle and you want to get 11,000, as much as you can.
Speaker 2:11,000, 12,000, backspin 100%, and especially the tour players right, they're going to be and again, dino emphasized this with wedges too is like going from a 58 to a 60. Well, when you get on tour, a 60 is going to get you that a couple hundred extra RPM that you wouldn't have had with a 58. So, like for me, I play a 58 and I love it and I can rip it the way I swing, but you go into a tour green, guess what? You need that 60. I played Rug Valley Country Club.
Speaker 2:In that event, about a month ago, before the Aerofied, I had never seen such firm greens, besides playing the junior AM qualifier at the Oregon Golf Club. I just I remember all these things back in the day and I'm like, if I would have had a 60, I would have been good, right, you know. So the golf ball can help, and I think that's the key here. Um, you know, we do a ton of golf ball fitting. We're actually going to be doing a golf ball fitting, um, fireside chat with our members and then offering them a complimentary golf ball fitting, and I think that that's really important. And again, mizuno is starting to make a golf ball.
Speaker 1:I did not know that yet. Yeah, so they made a ball. They sure made an impact in the club world.
Speaker 2:Oh man, yeah, I mean, back in the day when you're in high school, you talked about Mizuno's and Titleist a lot.
Speaker 1:They came in with more event. Mizuno came in with more events than Nike did when they first started making clubs.
Speaker 2:Oh man, yeah, Mizuno is a powerhouse too, and I mean they really strided themselves on premium metal, right Forged iron, all of that back when they first were really going. Ping strided themselves on being an American made, or put together at least. And it's funny, Ping is a cool company because they don't have a golf ball right. So I don't know if you guys know this, but, like cleveland, golf is owned by dunlop. Do you guys remember dunlop?
Speaker 2:golf balls back in the day that was like. It was like wilson and dunlop and all these sports right. So, once again, mizuno's ball. When I first hit it I think this was in 2019 or 2020 was a rocket ship. Their premium ball only went high and far. It was the worst feeling rubber. It was a bouncy ball. Legitimately. It would go so far, though with wedges and irons I picked up 20 yards. Oh my gosh, it was uncontrollable. Their ball. Now Ryan's playing it loves it. I looked at it. I'm like that cover looks different. You can tell. I mean, you can see a premium ball a lot of times. But what I like about balls now you can modify them to what you want to have. On them you can put your initials, you can customize them, you can put logos on.
Speaker 1:Put your business logo on them. Oh man, Put your name on them.
Speaker 2:That's what I do. I am all in on business logos right off your golf balls and frankly, it doesn't really cost you anymore. No, I mean, I think it might be a dollar to a dozen.
Speaker 1:Except when you're a recreational golfer and you're on your way to a course and you're like, oh, I've got five golf balls in my bag. That's not enough. I need to buy a box of golf balls right now.
Speaker 2:Great idea for you. We got the vault here, but before that, here's the coolest thing I've ever seen on a golf ball Ready.
Speaker 1:I'm ready.
Speaker 2:Okay, we had a car salesman at our club.
Speaker 1:Oh, you told me this story, yeah.
Speaker 2:He owns a Toyota dealership. He owns a Toyota dealership On his golf ball. It said if you find this golf ball, call this number and you get $500 off your next purchase of a car. Ingenious.
Speaker 1:Genius, ingenious. The worse of a golfer he is, the more it paid off for him.
Speaker 2:Problem was he didn't lose a lot of golf balls, he was a 14 handicap, going on a seven, like all the car dealers are.
Speaker 1:There's a golf pro shop in Santa Barbara, california. It's not at a golf course, it's just a golf shop in town in a strip mall, and you walk in there and they have a huge basket of premium golf balls.
Speaker 1:They sell them for three dollars and fifty cents each nice and you don't know whether they're used, whether they're new, because some people come in with their logo, their business logos, and they dump. You know they dump them in there. But you get to look through all all of these premium golf balls and you, I found a crown royal one, I found a course light one, you find all these super cool golf balls and you're like that, just speak to you and you're like I have to have this and I can't lose it. And you play better because you go into it with this attitude of I, I love this ball.
Speaker 2:You know it's funny. Golf balls don't have to be expensive, but I will tell you that you need to get fit for your golf ball.
Speaker 1:Where can you go to get an unbiased fit?
Speaker 2:So, number one I'm going to go ahead and toot our own horn, because I partnered up with all of the ball manufacturers that I thought were relevant and we have two ball packs in so we can try those on our launch monitors, you know. Number one is find a PGA professional that knows what they're talking about. I mean, I would just quiz them. Most all professionals that are PGA professionals are again top tier Um but they're going to be on staff with one manufacturer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think ultimately, that's one of those questions you ask, like, you know, what ball would you fit me into? Do you have the ability to try multiple brands? Because, like for us, I'm on staff with TaylorMade but I'm going to throw everything in everybody's hands, and because I understand the other product lines. There are some product lines for certain people that I'm like, man, you know what TaylorMade's got it, but I think this is going to fit you better.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I'm not afraid to do that, like they don't own me that way, and I think ultimately the golf ball is one of the most important pieces to the puzzle, because if you're confident in that ball, then you're going to play better golf is the Kirkland signature ball, one of the best balls for the money you can get. I think we need to bring it to Golf Garage and we're going to test it. I think that needs to be a video.
Speaker 1:We're going to do video and we're going to give you results next week.
Speaker 2:I think we got to do a ball fitting with you, Darren, and then we'll throw that on there and we'll put the Kirkland on there. You want to do that Because it's like what 20?
Speaker 1:I think they went up a little bit $24 for two dozen, but who can beat that?
Speaker 2:It's tough to beat and I would say that, based on what I'm seeing in the market. I don't see Kirkland that often, honestly, but I would say 10% of the time max, probably a little less. I'm seeing a Kirkland golf ball and the people that play them like them. So if you're going to spend the money, maybe it's just the idea that I'm not overcharged for a golf ball exactly, which is why we all have costco memberships to begin with.
Speaker 1:There we go exactly. It's been a pleasure. This was in depth and I gotta say um, our podcast last week with dino so fun broke our record for the most downloads let's go.
Speaker 2:you you know what this is so much fun.
Speaker 1:It was such a great conversation, and I think, this one about golf balls what's too? Because we're really shedding some light, bringing some unbiased perspectives and importance to being fit for the right equipment, no matter what brand it is.
Speaker 2:I'd love to hear from our viewers on what they want to see next. So, ultimately, tag us ask some questions, share us and we're going to do, and we're going to talk about what you want and I think that's the key to this podcast moving forward and if you have questions, shoot us a message.
Speaker 1:You can.
Speaker 2:You can shoot us a message directly to our podcast page through any of the providers you listen to us through, whether it be Apple, spotify, google whatever the case may be, and next week we are going to be going over some tips and tricks and having some callers call in and we're going to answer some of those questions.
Speaker 1:And we're going to revisit our results on testing out that Kirkland ball too.
Speaker 2:Let's do it buddy Take care.
