My Golf Source
Attention Golf Enthusiasts! Level up your golf game with hosts Darren Penquite and Noah Horstman, PGA as they keep you up to date on the latest trends, equipment, training aids and more. Learn tips and tricks from PGA Professionals to lower your score and grow your love for the game of golf.
My Golf Source
The Swing Doctor: Golf and Dentistry with Dr. Ken McGowan
Ever wonder why your golf game stubbornly refuses to improve despite years of play? You're not alone. In this fascinating conversation with Dr. Ken McGowan, owner of East Main Dental and lifelong golfer, we explore the frustrating plateau that haunts so many recreational players.
"I've probably shot between 82 and 88 for the last 25 years," Dr. McGowan confesses, echoing a sentiment familiar to countless golfers. The discussion quickly turns to a profound yet simple truth: embracing your natural tendencies might be more important than forcing textbook techniques. Our resident golf professional shares why fighting against your natural shot shape often leads to worse results, not better ones.
We dive into the psychology behind pre-shot routines, course management strategies, and why aiming for center-green rather than pin-hunting might dramatically lower your scores. The conversation takes an illuminating turn when examining the overwhelming world of online golf instruction. "There's so much fake news out there," our guest notes, as we explore when YouTube tutorials help and when they become a confusing maze of contradictory advice.
Parents will particularly appreciate Dr. McGowan's candid admission about introducing his daughters to golf: "I'll admit it was a little self-serving. I just hoped they would take to it so I could get to the golf course a little more often." This opens a heartwarming discussion about family golf, the OP36 development program, and creating meaningful experiences on the course with children.
Whether you're struggling with consistency, contemplating lessons, or simply looking for practical ways to enjoy the game more, this episode delivers insights that will resonate with golfers of all skill levels. Tune in to discover why accepting the "horse that showed up" might be the key to unlocking your best golf.
Subscribe now and join our growing community of passionate golfers seeking more enjoyment and better scores without the technical overwhelm.
Welcome to the MyGolfSource podcast. Welcome to MyGolfSource. I'm Darren and I'm Noah. What's new in your world, man? We've been planning tournaments, the weather's man. We've been playing in tournaments, the weather's been great. You've been out of town. I've been out of town.
Speaker 3:It's just good to be back home out of the humidity.
Speaker 2:Tennessee right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we were in Nashville for a week, and what a cool town. Have you been there?
Speaker 2:I have not. What's the best golf course you played while you were there?
Speaker 3:There was this awesome miniature golf course in Franklin that I took my kids to Noah Horseman marked this date.
Speaker 2:He didn't even take his golf clubs with him.
Speaker 3:There was a golf course across the street from the state park where the family reunion was, and I was just salivating the whole time. That's alright, family will do that to you. I get it. Yeah, no, you know what? The miniature golf was work-related, because I'm looking at that being another option here in the golf garage area that would be cool. Not to let the cat out of the bag, but there's some things up that could be a benefit in the Phoenix, the greater Phoenix Oregon area.
Speaker 2:So how did you do a miniature golf?
Speaker 3:just putting on degrading artificial turf and yeah, there was a really big hornet on the second hole so we almost bypassed that one and we played at 12 o'clock um in june and I would highly not recommend that in the nashville area. Humidity, the humidity was five, and 105%.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I made one hole in one so that was good and my kids had a good time and there it was really cool because there was a miniature golf course and it was built on a hillside so there were slopes on just about every hole downhill, uphill couldn't get the ball to stop and it was the most unique miniature golf course that I probably ever played.
Speaker 2:It wasn't about the windmills. I remember this one in Ventura, California called golf and stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And they had this cave you had to put through and it was a 90 degree turn in the cave and every time you'd walk through that cave it would smell like pee, because little kids would go in there that's awesome story, awful and, and that's what I think about, that's the memory that comes back when I think about miniature golf isn't golf and stuff where the karate kid was filmed like, isn't that where he took the girl on the date?
Speaker 2:I think it was golf and stuff it was a golf and stuff must have been. Is that a franchise? Or is it the one in Ventura like the only one?
Speaker 3:The only one I've ever heard of was on the Karate Kid, which is why I was thinking of it.
Speaker 2:Pretty cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, we have Family Fun Center locally, though we do, and they're good.
Speaker 2:We do. Miniature golf was the only golf I ever played until I was over 30.
Speaker 3:Is that right? It's true, so you're really good, then, relative to the amount of time that you've played, it's a lot harder as an adult to pick up the game.
Speaker 2:Tell me that after we play 18 holes together next week.
Speaker 3:I'm so excited. Yeah, so pro-am coming up, I'm actually going to start working on the game. This year Made a conscious effort to get a little healthier and get back into the gym and get the swing speed up. So that's the plan. But, yeah, are you ready for it?
Speaker 2:I am, I am. We just got back from a week at bar run. My son and I played two rounds at bar run and then one round at Roseburg Country Club.
Speaker 1:Good.
Speaker 2:It was great, great experience. Bar run, bar run the day Toby and I just played together. We both shot. I had a good front nine and a rough back nine on Tuesday. Then on Thursday, I had a rough front nine and a good back nine. It was the opposite and we played with two caddies that were over on their day off from Bandon Dunes. So fun.
Speaker 3:Do you have new caddies for the next time you go over?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:No, maybe not.
Speaker 2:Maybe not, maybe not. I mean, they were super cool kids. I love these kids who are so passionate about golf. They'll literally carry bags on 32 holes a day and then on their day off, they'll drive two hours and go play golf 36 holes a day, 36 holes a day. There we go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're for sure I mean match play. Maybe we crush somebody. Get it done, let's do it 32. Yeah, so also we've got a good junior golfer that's going to be playing with us that you're going to enjoy. All right, if he doesn't shoot 68 out there, it's probably an issue. And then our good friend Mike is going to be playing with us. So two photographers going to be hitting it up on the same team. I love it. Team Photo Bomb.
Speaker 2:All right, yeah, he takes pictures of people though.
Speaker 3:For fun.
Speaker 2:For fun, that's awesome. You prefer the still life? I do. I prefer inanimate objects, yeah, and and if it's if it's people, it better come with a hefty price tag on it. So the only thing I like to do with houses hit golf balls over them, maybe through them you need to start a bryson de chambeau video where you need to put a pool ring in your pool out in the front yard and then hit from the lawn in your backyard.
Speaker 3:What if I hit it over a golf garage instead? See, that would be way better than what Bryson did Get.
Speaker 2:Garrison's next door to sponsor it where you hit off a Garrison's roof. No, you drop a golf ball on one of their couches that they got for sale.
Speaker 3:That's a really good idea, and you can video it. Yes, use your drone, yes, capture it like that. Speaking of people with club head speed, we have a guest on the show today that's going to be not just your average doctor. He also knows how to swing the big stick. He does, yeah. So we uh, you know we're going to get some other professionals on the show here, probably in the upcoming weeks. Um, I know my friend, don law, wants to be on the show from he's retired golf Academy. National youth player development award winner. Worked with um drive, chip and putt champions, tour players, um, all caliber golfer. So I'm really excited about having him on because he's next level. Um, and now that he's retired, I think all he's doing is bass fishing in florida.
Speaker 3:but he's got playing golf well, but he's got family in oregon so we might have him on live and we were talking about that and that'll be in august. That'd be cool. Still working on trying to get Jibo on the show would be really, really cool. Bryson's caddy.
Speaker 2:He's just starting to kind of slow down in life a touch.
Speaker 3:I, yeah, man, that guy just goes. I can't imagine carrying a bag that big for that guy who needs everything in it. Not only is he, playing.
Speaker 2:Not only is Jibo playing, you know, with Bryson during all of his tournaments, but he's in most of his YouTube videos and all of his fun stuff too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so he's like they're literally connected at the hip yeah, I think you'd have to be, because you know Bryson's personality trait is, you know, wanting to know the answer now.
Speaker 2:So I think if we get Jibo on the show, bryson will be on the show by default, because they're just that would be awesome.
Speaker 3:I, we should. I think we should challenge that, see if it can happen. All right, no, it's awesome. So, yeah, I think, without further ado, I think we need to bring on Dr Ken McGowan. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:Hey guys, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3:Love it. Yeah, Owner of East main dental and you know, kind of funny, but um, that is where I grew up going to the dentist, I don't know. I told you that right, yeah, yeah you did, and you took over the practice for my.
Speaker 2:I was going to say we're all probably close to the same age, right yeah, 41, 43 and 40. All right, you're the youngest, yeah, whatever, I think he's rubbing it in our face. That backfired on me real quick.
Speaker 3:So you played a little bit of golf growing up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I grew up playing golf. I mean, all my family did and it was just something that I was out there doing. You know, five, six years old, just being with my dad and my uncles and all that. So with my dad and my uncles and all that. Where did you grow up? Ontario, Oregon, so Boise, Idaho area.
Speaker 3:Some good golf over in that area that no one knows about isn't there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's some nice courses, especially in the greater Boise area. I mean, I grew up in kind of a dirt weed track out there that actually no longer exists. I think they gave it up eventually.
Speaker 3:You and Lee Trevino actually no longer exists.
Speaker 1:I think they they gave it up eventually. So, uh, you and Lee Trevino, yeah, yeah. Well, I don't know how much it benefited me. I feel like I've, uh, pretty shot pretty consistently the same scores my whole life.
Speaker 3:Not overly impressive, though, so yeah, but you know it's kind of like sounds like you. You took it up because of the family and then did you keep it going after high school, just recreationally.
Speaker 1:After high school I played three years in high school and coincidentally actually ended up graduating early. So I was ineligible for my senior year and my coach was a little upset about that Because did you go to?
Speaker 1:state at all, I did not. I kind of floated in the top of the jv ranks and then probably would have been, you know, second or third spot varsity my senior year if I had been eligible to stick around and do that. But I was off to off to junior college and just moving on with life and yeah hard, uh hard to not play golf when tiger woods is.
Speaker 3:That is like ultimate right yeah, absolutely, because that's I mean 97 masters. You would have been 11 probably. I was 12. I'm like glued to the tv.
Speaker 1:I mean it's like that got you out of baseball real quick yeah, absolutely was your dad a good golfer no, my dad was never a good golfer, but I had two uncles that um shot scratch at various points in their lives. How old were you when he beat your dad?
Speaker 2:oh, probably 14 or 15 huh, sounds like a familiar thing, how old he was he was like 12, yeah, when he beat me yeah, that was his main goal too.
Speaker 3:Toby's main goal was to beat you. Like that was literally like all he cared about. It was pretty funny.
Speaker 2:It's still all. He cares about Not beating me, he just wants to beat Everybody, everybody.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a good goal when you're on the golf course, isn't it. Beat the golf course. Yeah. So, ken, obviously your kiddos are up and coming, and same age as our girls, and we're friends.
Speaker 1:And what got you to want to get them into golf? Oh, I'll admit it was a little self-serving. I just kind of hoped they would take to it so I could get to the golf course a little more often. It's a lot easier pitch to the wife that hey the girls and I are going golfing versus hey, I'm going to be gone for half a day. That's a harder sell.
Speaker 2:You get the kids on your own. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So it gives sir some downtime and uh. So yeah, I put them into it, you know, hopeful but didn't want to put too much pressure on them and fortunately they really took to it, they really enjoy it, they want to go. It's just a fun time for us to get out and do that kind of thing With all the programs available to us here at the Golf Garage and around the Valley. It's nice because we can get out and do the OP36, which is really nice for them to start close and kind of learn the, the fundamentals and the important part of the game which, um, that really resonated with me because I just grew up banging balls on the range, just hit them a bunch, which was fine and had its merits. But uh, at the same time, um, I think I wish I had a little stronger base with a short game and putting that that was, I felt was really important yeah it's, it's an amazing concept.
Speaker 3:Um, we've been growing the game from the green backwards for a long time and these two professionals from the east coast their golf course was about to close and their pro basically said you guys need to come up with something, otherwise we're shutting down. And lo and behold, they came up with this concept of OP36, and that's what saved their club. So player development saved the golf course, and so my background in coaching has always been to show golf courses the appeal of player development, and it's almost been one of those things where it's always been about tournaments make money. Well, no they don't.
Speaker 3:Tournaments drive your staff crazy and you get turnover because of it, and yeah, some tournaments make money.
Speaker 2:general public who can't get a tee time on that weekend?
Speaker 3:100%. So there's a time and a place to have tournaments, but it's how many do you need and what is it really doing for you? But what's really growing the game is the impact of player development, working from the green backwards, understanding that you can shoot par from a yardage, and then that makes you feel confident to then move back and shoot par again. And what I really like and I think I was very fortunate in this is that the year we opened golf garage, which will be a year here this next week um, they started having indoor operation 36 as a program. I mean that is a game changer, because you also aren't going to lose a golf ball. Yeah, and that's the embarrassment factor. Right, where's my ball? Am I still away? Oh, it took me too long. So you fix all those things. So I think there's a nice combination I know our girls like it as well of hitting in the sim and then going on the course and vice versa.
Speaker 2:I think it's helpful. I'm sure you can relate, though, I've spent more money in lost golf balls and one round of golf than what the round of golf cost me with the cart.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, been there, done that.
Speaker 2:Not anymore. You have the.
Speaker 3:Kirkland's.
Speaker 2:That's right. No yeah, it's hard to go through 90 bucks in Kirkland's.
Speaker 3:It's pretty funny, as we continue this podcast, how much I know about this guy across the way, like we did this ball fitting a couple weeks ago and we had to test the kirkland ball which I had maybe hit.
Speaker 2:You were very apprehensive about it.
Speaker 3:I was, and at the end of the day I was very impressed at the value of that golf ball and the quality, for the value was amazing.
Speaker 2:You know I I prefer to play with the premium tp5, tp5x. However, when I'm going out on a course that I know I'm going to lose golf balls, I leave the tp5s in the back yeah and I go shop and pay it $26.99 for two dozen at Costco.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you caught me. So he was telling me how they're $20 a dozen or something like that and so I go into Costco and see it and I was like no, they're not, they're $26.99. He's like that's for two dozen.
Speaker 2:And he's like no, it's not, it's one box. And I said yes, it's one box. And I said yes, did you notice how tall the box is? I think it is yeah.
Speaker 3:He's like they don't sell anything. A dozen at Costco.
Speaker 2:I was laughing. They don't do anything small at Costco.
Speaker 3:So good, so true, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, ken, now that your girls are starting to get into it and you know obviously, like you said, getting to go play a little bit more, you know does does it seem to be happening for you as?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, a little bit. I mean, especially, like I said, with some of those events like the op 36 things and some of the LPGA stuff they can do, um, I just like to be out there on the course, even if I'm not playing, but I'll do the op 36 with them just to be out there doing it. But uh, yeah, I think as they develop into it more and um, you know, are more and more interested. I really envision our life as hey going on a family vacation and we're going to incorporate some golf into that which I never really could do before, cause that is just, that was time away from the family and that doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1:But now it's like, okay, this can be part of our adventure together and I think that'll be really exciting moving forward with that.
Speaker 2:So while you're in your adult life playing golf, we all get frustrated with our game. It's a frustrating frankly, it's an infuriating sport, but we can't let it go. What frustrated you the most? And is that still true today?
Speaker 1:Well, I would say over the years I've had a lot of things. Frustrate me with golf is looking back and seeing myself play for so many years and feel like I haven't progressed very much. I played this game since I was a little kid and I've probably shot between 82 and 88 for the last 25 years. It's like at some point, something should change and I should get better.
Speaker 2:Biggest struggle was it from the t-box on the fairways, always getting yourself into trouble. Was it poor putting?
Speaker 1:combinations of all of that and um and at different times and at different times. Some days I'm putting lights out and it's just keeping me from having a horrible round because everything else is in the in the garbage. And then there's other days where it's like, man, I could hit any fairway I wanted to, but I can't get the ball on the green to save my life. You know it. Just it depends day to day.
Speaker 2:So much it's funny. Speaking of getting the balls on onto the green at bar run. It was on hole hole 18, and the pin placement was only about three yards onto the grain.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 2:I was 30 yards from the pin in the rough and I got out my 69-degree wedge and I popped at this beautiful little shot that landed about a foot short of the pin, checked up, stopped about three inches from the pin Awesome and the caddies we were playing with their jaws about hit the ground and they're like, with a few choice words, what in the world did you just hit? Let me see that wedge. They'd never seen anything like it.
Speaker 2:And I didn't tell them. They were just shocked at how the ball't tell them they're. They were just shocked at how the ball responded yep, and they're like I don't get it. Let me see what. What did you just hit? And I said, oh, it's my secret weapon and I handed them the club and they just laughed and laughed and they're like how many clubs do you have in your back?
Speaker 3:like 16, yeah right, because I'm allowed to. That's. That's pretty cool, yeah, I think. Uh, you know when you, when you look at the things that you get frustrated about in golf. I was just working with um he's probably about our age as well and he was a D one college player, um, and it was unique because he just kind of moved into the area for work and he basically had a lesson every week in his adult life from a different professional, anywhere he lived, and so I think he's had like five swing coaches and five different opinions and five different swing thoughts. And so I think he's had like five swing coaches and five different opinions and five different swing thoughts. And so he looked me up and we've had three lessons together and in that time we've done some chipping right.
Speaker 3:So, started small. I really wanted to get to know him, knowing he's a good player, see where his motion was, knew that was a problem for him, fit him for new wedges, got those in, gave him some stuff, right. But I didn't rush the process and, um, today it was really unique because he's like what do you want to work on to me? And I'm like, whoa, hold on a second, this isn't about me, right? So what? What is it that you need to work on? And uh, it was like one thing to another thing, to another thing. So, immediately, I'm trying to figure out what all these thoughts mean, you know, and what are we actually going to work on today to get you to where you need to be, where you're comfortable when you leave this place?
Speaker 3:So I watch him hit a couple of shots and I'm like, what shot shape do you want to hit? And he's like just looked at me with a blank stare, like what, what do you mean? You're supposed to tell me what I should be doing, kind of a thing. And so ultimately I said, like, what do you want to hit with this club? Well, I'll, I'll hit a cut, but but what I want to do is hit a draw. And I said, well, what do you want to hit? So you want to hit a draw, right? So ultimately, after literally four minutes, he told me what he wanted to do with the golf ball. And so I said, do you know how to hit a draw? Well, yeah, I said okay, well, now I want you to not think about your swing and I want you to hit a draw. So he sets up super exaggerated to hit this draw, and so I watched one. And that's what I do, and I pull it yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, but he, he hits it way right and it drew, and it wasn't an overcooked, but it, and it was like hey, so that's a great draw, isn't it? But it didn't start where you wanted to. So how are you going to start it better? Didn't say another thing, started better, right. So he tries and kind of does the same thing, and I said so, I don't think it's your golf swing, that's the issue. It's that maybe you're not quite sure how to aim with your eyes properly when you're setting up. I said so, number one, you know, we could use an alignment stick, bum, and teach you how to aim with your eyes today, and then we're going to go off of that. So then I did it, and then I start talking to somebody in a bay and let him practice for a minute, and then he gets it. I said did you hit one? Good? And he said yeah.
Speaker 3:So we kind of go down this path a little bit and at the end of it all, I basically had to go back to the fundamental of do you know how to align your club face properly to the target and then align your body. And he doesn't think that way. He's like, oh yeah, well, that that makes sense, right? So I was like some of this is you have a really good golf swing already.
Speaker 3:Most golfers have an okay golf swing, right, and what happens is they see a shot they don't like and they instantly try to change and correct that based on the result of the shot, instead of taking it for what it was was a golf shot out of the million golf shots you're going to hit in your life, and so sometimes we have to be patient with a round or two or three before we start making adjustments to what our golf swing is, because our golf swings are golf swing, but most likely there's something going on with a basic fundamental. So if you can get it airborne decently, like Ken, you're a really good golfer, like you really are, like you hit it, you're in the top 10 percent maybe even better than that in the world of all golfers, because of what you can shoot, score wise and I've in watching you hit it, you hit it as good as a guy that can shoot scratch.
Speaker 1:It's just a matter of if you can control the ball that day yeah, and just having that consistency, um, and, like you said, breaking it down to fundamentals. So I would love to get to a position where I know what my, my swing thoughts and my um basics should be, so that, like you said, things start getting off the rails a little bit, it's like okay, let's slow it down, get back to what I should be doing. Because, like I said, if things start getting off the rails a little bit, it's like okay, let's slow it down, get back to what I should be doing. Because, like you said, it's consistency. I've never had really an issue with distance or really. I mean, it's never like one aspect where I'm like man, I just can't do this or that, I can do any of it, but on different days. So you talk a lot about.
Speaker 2:What do you want your shot shape to be? What do you want your shot to look like? Is there a default shot shape that every unique individual has, or is it something that's trained? Because there's times I feel like I naturally, when I'm striking the ball, well, I naturally hit a cut. Yep, um, I would. There's times where I want to hit a really hard power, fade around on a dog leg. There's times where I would kill to be able to hit a draw, and every time I set up to hit a draw, I end up pulling it and it draws, but it starts out so far left, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so that's. That's a little bit of a loaded question. It depends on the day and how you get out of bed. Right, your body is going to allow you to make a golf swing or it's not right. So at the end of the day, um, I like from from the experience at least I've had training better players there's a shot shape that they like right. So if I'm going out on the golf course and I have a go to like right now and I'm playing good, my ball is going to fall about two feet left, okay, and I'm going to hit it by most people straight to a baby draw.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Baby draw. But if I'm with the driver and I need to put it in play, you're going to see me hit a five yard cut. I can pipe it with a five yard cut all day. So at the end of the day, it's knowing what it is, and it's a low cut relative to my ball flight when I'm ripping it. So I think it's it's. Do you know what your shot shape is? Is really the question, right? And then how do you find that out? Well, you need to go see your professional to find that out, right? The other thing you can do is don't fight. You know the horse that showed up that day, right?
Speaker 3:So played in the juggernaut tournament, which is the biggest. I would say it's probably the biggest charity tournament in Southern Oregon at this point, since they're donating to charity now and, um, it's a great event. And one of the players I'd never played with them before and he normally hits a draw and he's hitting a pole cut, but he's fighting it beyond belief. And we played in the par three contest the first day. So that was a blessing in disguise, because he did not hit it very well at all. And so we get on the range the next morning and I'm like, hey, let me watch you hit a couple Cause I just want to see if it's different. He's like, yeah, I don't normally hit the shot shape.
Speaker 3:And I said that's fine. I said let's take a look at it. So he hits one, okay, and it fades. And I said here's the deal, you're not going to change anything in your golf swing today. I said you need to know what your shot shape's doing for the golf course, so I want you to pay attention to where that ball started and how much it moved. And now you're going to play that shot on the next one. So don't fight it, let's play a 10 yard fade today. And guess what? The next one was solid on the face because he'd allowed himself to say it's okay to play the shot. That that's what I showed up with. And so and I said here's the funny thing about this I said throughout the day your shot shape could change depending on if your body starts getting into sequence getting warmed up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe right, but just in general, getting your sense of fear for the day. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So at the end of the turn his ball did start pulling a little bit and I said you're just going to have to adjust to that, so adapt to it. He played for Boise State.
Speaker 2:He was a good football player too so he knew how to adapt to situations, but in golf he didn't. So let's get back to the real, real basics on this. What's the basic principle in your stance and your thought process? If you typically hit a fade, naturally if you want to set up for a draw, drop your, drop your right foot back a little bit. Make sure the club face is coming inside out.
Speaker 3:So that's a lot of mechanics in its own right. There, just thinking about the club face coming inside out is not a thought that I would necessarily give somebody to do it. What I would do is I would explain more that you're turning right and you're turning left. Right, you're turning around your spine Number one, can you do that? And then what you're doing is you're setting up your club face to where you want the ball to end up. Well, if I want the ball to go to the hole, I'm going to always set my club face up to the hole. You're setting your body, your stance, aligned to your start line. So your club face is going to look really closed relative to your body now, but your club face is technically still at your target. And then you turn right and you turn left and if you can do that, it's going to put left spin on it as long as you swing the way you normally swing.
Speaker 3:The problem is some people come over the top and across their body because they can't turn efficiently anyway. So just stepping back isn't going to solve the problem. They're going to have to learn how to do a lot more than that. So it might be training without a golf club. Right, it might be body awareness drills, it might be things like that, just to get them to do that properly. I mean, ken, I mean we, we worked on driver that day. Do you remember that a little bit?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So what was the biggest change? Cause it was feel it was ultimate and I can't feel what you feel exactly.
Speaker 1:I think, like you said, just finding that right trigger for what you're trying to accomplish, because that day I was kind of swaying, I think wasn't turning. Well, I was swaying my body and so I would kind of get everything spun around. I was kind of spun out, so it either either weak to the right or I was just pull hooking it to the left. It was just kind of all over. And so, uh, I don't remember exactly what you had said, but the gist of my thought was hey, on the on the swing through, I feel like you're kind of.
Speaker 1:I guess what I had in my head was like popping my shoulder, my left shoulder, up as I came through, just getting that right at contact. Yeah, it was like all like right before, contact was kind of get that thing lifted and I think it was just getting me into a different position and I mean I went immediately from this weak pull hook to way up in the air and it kind of blocked to the right. But again, I was just getting that feel back. So I took that with me for the next few times that I was practicing and hitting balls and definitely got me back into the wheelhouse of what I wanted to see as far as ball flight.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I have a tendency, like, I think, a lot of golfers. I mean I hit it far, so I want to hit it farther so so I tend to over swing get a distance ball yeah well, I just I start to over swing, I get a little wild with it and and I think if I can get myself to bring that back in and just make a little.
Speaker 2:My favorite ball flight from the driver is dead straight. Yeah, no shape to it at all, and I like seeing it come off fairly low and watching it look like it's climbing.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yeah, that was my golf coaches in college. Yeah, yeah, so crazy.
Speaker 2:I love that look, and I hit the furthest drives by far. When I get that low. It comes off the club low and it kind of climbs up high and it's dead straight. There's no side spin at all. I get my best results by far distance-wise and ball placement-wise when I see that shot shape. I just don't know how to do that every time.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, that's the ticket, isn't it Doing it every time? Yeah, my shot shape typically is more of a draw, which I think tends to make it at least for me comes out a little lower, but you get a little more rollout, a little more ramble down the fairway with it. I like a straight one too.
Speaker 3:I think that's the big key here is that if you ask 30 people in a line what their shot was, they'd explain it differently to you. And if they drew a picture, it would be completely different, because they're going to show you the shot flight, they're going to show you the trajectory it's taken off on. So the picture you have in your head on hole two, um, at a golf course, any given golf course and then, ken, you guys might play those entirely different and you might play the shot heights entirely different, right, and so that's what makes it really difficult. No golfer is the same and you have to train yourself to at least, if nothing else, plan the golf shot Right. You have that in your control and you will be a hundred times better at the game that day if you at least try to plan what's in your control. Once you make your golf swing and the ball comes off the face, that's completely out of your control. So who cares? You hit the shot, deal with it, go find the next, hit it again. But you still have to have the same intent the entire time, and the more you practice with intent, the better you're going to be right.
Speaker 3:And people always tell me oh, I take all my time and I do my pre-shot routine, and so I listened to that. And then sometimes I'll be like, all right, do your pre-shot routine. Now do it again. Was it the same? It's never the same, right? It's not? Normally not. If they're struggling right, they think it's the same, but they might've taken two seconds longer over the ball, they might've taken an additional practice swing. They don't even know they're doing that. They may have rushed it. They might have rushed it right. So if you're not really looking and reacting and your mind isn't clear to exactly what you're trying to do, then your brain's not going to allow your body to do it anyway.
Speaker 2:True.
Speaker 3:It's going to be harder. I'm not going to jump out of a plane if I'm not 100% clear. Probably will never do that, maybe.
Speaker 2:Probably not, though, but your parachute's packed right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly. And all the straps are on and buckled accordingly, exactly, exactly. All the straps are on and buckled accordingly, exactly, exactly. No, it's good. Well, we're excited to have your whole family here. Obviously, ken, it's so awesome. And, darren, I mean, this is what Golf Garage Community is all about. We get you know, our friends involved, obviously, and other business owners on the show, which is super cool.
Speaker 2:We love that.
Speaker 3:Is this our first doctor, I think it is.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, which doctor? I think it is.
Speaker 2:It is yeah, which is great. So it's nice to see that because there's a lot of professionals. I told dr bonds last week that he's gonna oh sweet yeah.
Speaker 3:But I mean there's so many dentists and doctors that um that play golf, so for you it's also a benefit in your industry to have that networking ability so what?
Speaker 2:what got you? What got you interested in wanting to go into dentistry?
Speaker 1:oh, just growing up, my dentist I really liked and uh, my orthodontist. And after I got my teeth straightened I uh really liked the look of things. And you know, I was 16 years old and I'm like I could do what these guys do and I just kind of went for it and uh, originally I thought I was going to be an orthodontist. Just that was kind of my interest initially. Um, and I worked into uh, college, got through, got into dental school and then in dental school the ortho classes were my most boring classes and I could just barely stay awake through kind of thing.
Speaker 1:I was like maybe that's not not my orthodontist have to become dentists first yeah, you have to be a dentist first to then specialize into orthodontics or whatever specialty after that.
Speaker 2:They say that dentistry is ranked in like the top 5% of highest stress jobs. Is that true?
Speaker 1:Well, it's the only real job I've had, so I can't compare it, but there's a lot of stress, obviously. I mean mean we're dealing with people physically every day. I mean I'm doing procedures to people that are generally awake, and part of it.
Speaker 2:So there, there's, there's a lot and, generally speaking, they're not super excited. Yeah, exactly no one. One of those chores you just have to do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you gotta do it, and so anytime you hear the drill when it's inside it's not. Yeah, exactly, what's that? What's that?
Speaker 1:yeah, nobody's loving that. So I mean the only thing I liked about the dentist.
Speaker 2:Was that suction thing that they'd suck? The water out of your mouth with nothing cracked me up. Yeah, it's awesome. And seeing youtube videos of kids coming home all drugged up, yeah, oh, geez, yeah, have you had what percentage?
Speaker 3:maybe it's against hip at what percentage of people have to use the gas oh no, I would say, very few actually need it um, yeah we, you give it to anybody who wants it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, if they say they want it. I mean, well, there's some parameters to that and obviously. But uh, yeah, for the most part it's fine, but our office in general, we, it's more of a hassle for us to get the whole thing out, get it all set up. Now you got a thing on your nose that's blocking my view from getting in your mouth, like I, I don't offer it very much, just because I don't want to use it. But uh, people are like, hey, I need that. I'm like, all right, that's fine, we can do that too.
Speaker 3:So nice, they still have the uh, the big stuffed animal that you can win each each month up there, I think it's monthly, my quarterly, quarterly, quarterly yeah, budget cuts I'm just kidding my brother won the dinosaur and it was hilarious. How do you win that? It's drawing dude.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's for a little, uh, our kids program over there. So it's part of the uh, we call it the no cavity club. So you get your checkup, you got no cavities, you get into the drawing, and so then quarterly they pull a name and uh, yeah, usually the kids are super excited and then the parents are like great, what am I going to do with this giant stuffed animal in my house?
Speaker 3:I'm going to start giving you golf garage 50 off coupons to give to all your patients there you go and then we'll have the east main dental uh clinic sign up here. Yeah, I like that, are you?
Speaker 2:guys accepting new patients.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, in fact, uh, there's, uh I, actually three other partners, so there's four of us that are um owners in the group and uh, yeah, we're all accepting new patients and uh really glad to just be a part of the community. Um, yeah, it's really good.
Speaker 2:What's the best golf course you've ever?
Speaker 1:played Best golf course I've ever played? Um golf course. Well, those are probably two different things. The best course I've ever played is probably Bandon Dunes and my favorite golf course that's probably a tougher. One Years ago I was probably in high school or college we played one up in northern Idaho in the Coeur d'Alene area. Was it the resort course area? And uh, the resort course. It was not the resort course.
Speaker 2:Uh, and I do not recall the name there's a private club, a private country club up there. That I've heard is insane.
Speaker 3:Yeah, cory caddies there oh, you're talking about the, uh, the cattle club. Right, that's in montana, though I.
Speaker 2:No, he caddies for one in Coeur d'Alene and it's a private club and he said it's.
Speaker 3:I guess we got to take a road trip, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm down.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we got a threesome right here. Let's go Now, bring the kids.
Speaker 2:All of our kids play. Yeah, yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 3:That's anything you want me to answer today on the show. Anything you've thought about.
Speaker 1:Well, as far as golf goes, I would say there's a lot of info out there YouTube, whatever advice makes my head hurt. Oh, so much of it. And I mean for, like myself, someone who wants to improve, I want to get better, and it's like where do I get resources for that?
Speaker 3:youtube's easy my golf, hop on there. Yeah, there you go my golf.
Speaker 1:Source podcast yeah, what would your advice be? Um, obviously, getting lessons would be the answer. But outside of, what kind of advice would you have for somebody who's like just kind of scrambling, looking around, like how do I find just something to get me back on track? What would be the most basic thing that you would tell them?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So number one I wouldn't be afraid of YouTube. I'd be afraid of doing everything that YouTube shows you. I think I have a lot of students that have used YouTube in the wrong manner because they didn't understand. It was like here's the quickest way to fix a slice, here's the perfect posture. Well, every player is different, right? So at the end of the day, when I have a player that loves YouTube and I'm starting to work with them, so I'm assessing them to see if it's going to work out, no, I tell them I don't mind if you look at YouTube, but before you try anything or any questions you have, you have to talk to me about it first. So use it, look at it, be aware of it and then ask for it. But if you're going on there to search for the next fix after you've taken a lesson from me, then I'm not going to work with you.
Speaker 3:It's pretty simple. There's no reason for that at all. You came to me for a reason and so to kind of go into answering the question of you know, what should that person do? It's all relative in general, because unfortunately I hate the term, but it's like there's so much fake news out there. So YouTube is a good marketing platform for golf professionals and for any business owner, and we watch things that are funny or catch our attention or dramatic. Right, we watch the things that we think are going to work for us.
Speaker 3:So, unfortunately, I don't think that's the best resource. Your PGA professional is going to be the best resource and ultimately, most of the time, you're probably within 20, 30 minutes of a golf course, even in a rural area that go to that professional and ask them what they think, or go to that professional and ask them who that they would recommend taking a lesson from. And this is the. This is what I always ask my students particularly in clinics, because you don't have a lot of time to help them with their swing in a clinic is ask me why I'm giving you that advice. If I can't answer something I'm giving you, I shouldn't be teaching it. If I can't demonstrate it, I shouldn't be teaching it, right?
Speaker 2:So at the end of the day, it's sink in more. Yeah, the why behind it Without question.
Speaker 3:So ultimately, whether it's a clinic or it's a one on one or you're just struggling, you know, and the other cool thing is, a good teaching professional can probably give you something on the spot that could potentially help, even by watching you air swing Right spot that could potentially help, even by watching you air swing Right. I mean, there's some, there's some really cool things that we strive ourselves on here at golf garage and in our coaching staff that we can find the root cause of your problem in under five minutes. Well, the only thing we've ever even really done in that situation is watch you set up and then we'll do some fundamental movements and we're going to already know most of the time how your golf club is going to work, based on how you move.
Speaker 2:What's your favorite tempo training?
Speaker 3:It's pretty easy. It's the orange whip baby. All right, all right, and it's a good friend of mine, so I got to promote him. Yeah, orange whip.
Speaker 2:I like the blue lag shot too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know you do. Orange whip, though, creates a feel.
Speaker 2:The orange whip actually too. Yeah, I know you do. Orange whip, though, creates a feel Actually, I like the feel better because it's more exaggerated, but the lag shot club. You actually get to hit a golf ball with it and see the shape of the ball.
Speaker 3:But you forgot to ask one important question why Exactly? So the orange whip has a counterbalance on it that's actually what they trademarked so that white ball on the opposite side of the orange ball is. Nobody can do that, and so that is why you feel it different and exaggerated, and it allows you to release it. So the orange whip is designed to go through your natural golf swing, whatever plane of motion that is, but it helps you feel the the club down at the bottom with good tempo forces sequence there you go.
Speaker 2:So what do you say to people? And and I'm 100 guilty of this I'm going. I really want to get lessons, but I want to work and improve my game on my own enough to give the pro something to work with yeah, I mean, I think, it's a huge one yeah, I think.
Speaker 3:I think it's twofold number one. I'm never gonna sell somebody something they don't want, right? So if that's the way they want to go, then let them go that way, and at the end of the, that's a huge one. Yeah, I think it's twofold Number one I'm never going to sell somebody something they don't want, right? So if that's the way they want to go, then let them go that way, and at the end of the day, if I'm a good fit for them, then they'll come back, right, and that's great and hopefully I get the opportunity to try. But it's all relative. There's a lot of questions you can ask a person to find out, you know. And again I would ask why, like why do you think that you know? I think it's important to find out. Um, you know, is it that they don't want to spend the money? Is it that they don't really have the time?
Speaker 2:Is it that they don't want to invest in it. I think it's embarrassment because it's like, yes, I'm capable of hitting really good golf shots and I want a pro to be able to see that and then improve upon that. But until I can do that, even moderately consistently, I feel like I'm wasting my money because they've got no data or consistency to work with.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think it's up to the professional to really be able to prove that to that, that student or potential student. And I get the opposite a lot. I get the people that are so afraid of making a mistake that they need. They're like I need a lesson. I'm not going to swing unless I have lessons, and so I think it's. You know there's definitely extremes and I think most people are on both one end or the other of that.
Speaker 3:And you know, with Op36 and other programs that are out there, I think it really does. It proves that you're getting better. Right With our technology. We have a golf garage. It proves that you're getting better, and I mean almost every golf course now probably has some sort of a launch monitor because you can buy them for 500 bucks. You can't buy what we have, but you can buy something that gives you a general idea of improvement. I mean, more consumers now have them, right. They have watches that sync up with it. They have range finders that sync up with your launch monitor. It's insane. So technology is definitely getting down a rabbit hole and a lot of times I'll try to teach without it, even though I have it, because you don't get it out there.
Speaker 2:So here's another question On the course, and I think it was. I heard Bryson DeChambeau talking about this. He said when you're more than accurate, striking range to a six-foot target, he said, forget about pin placement, just shoot for the center of the green every time yeah versus using your range finder, hitting the pin not really knowing where your pin is on the green.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he said, but you have tools out there now, gps tools out there that don't tell you where the pin is, but they tell you your distance to the front, center and back of the green.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, I mean. So those guys, can you really go wrong If you're?
Speaker 2:150 yards out on a par 4, can you really go wrong? Just forgetting about the pin and just going for the center of the green every time?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we do something with our college team once in a while where we take the flag sticks out ahead of time so they don't even know where the where the hole is. I like that Right, so that's a really good way of doing it. It's really hard for people to play away from a target when they know the hole is their actual end goal and that's what gets them in trouble.
Speaker 2:That's why golf courses put the flag in.
Speaker 1:There is to really screw with you to mess me up, yeah yeah, because I've tried that in the past too just saying okay, today I'm obviously needing to get on the green to be able to put the ball on the hole, so let's just aim for the middle of the green. That's so hard to do when the flag's right there. I'm like why would I try to hit over here when it's over there?
Speaker 2:When you have greens the size of football fields and it's a back right pin placement it's hard to get it in your mind to go for the center of the green. I have one of those blue tees speakers that go on the golf cart but it tells you front, middle and back. Yep, yeah, and I found myself looking at that more than using my range finder to the pin.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think number one the average golfer can't control their ball anyway. They're worried about contact. So to have that much information, it just gets jumbled. I think the biggest thing is play to your strengths. Get out of trouble. When you get into trouble, hit the green and regulation inside of 30 yards If you, if you're there, don't waste shots and miss it. You know those are kind of some of the basics but ultimately, you know, if you can't, hit it on the green from a hundred anyway.
Speaker 2:What's the point? 30 yards and hitting, hitting onto the green and regulation, that means you must be a really big. No, no, no, no.
Speaker 3:What I mean is when you're yeah, exactly when you're inside 30 yards, knock it on the green, right, don't, don't waste shots inside 30. You got to hit it on the green from there and it's even, it's even more like 100 right for the better players. So, anyway, no, it's, it's all good and I think, um, the one thing about YouTube and the one thing about online is that it's a resource right, and it's getting people to want to play the game, so I don't hate it and ultimately it's going to grow less in business because at some point they're going to need help.
Speaker 2:They're going to watch a YouTube video go oh that looks easy, that looks easy, I can do that. Go to the course and it wrecks them yeah.
Speaker 3:And, at the end of the day, if that's the direction they want to go. I know some people have kind of taught themselves through YouTube. So if it works for you, do it Right. If you're happy with it, then that's great, because you're going to keep playing the game that I love. That's good, absolutely so.
Speaker 2:Who we got next.
Speaker 3:Man, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Who should we bring?
Speaker 3:on. I know you are Well first of all I want to thank Dr McGowan for being here. Obviously, you know East Main Dental Center special place in my heart.
Speaker 2:Our kids go to you now too, so we're pumped about that, and we might even have a few listeners in Germany come over to see you. I know we got a few.
Speaker 3:Shout out to those guys. Maybe we need them to call in and ask some questions. That would be really really cool.
Speaker 2:We have a message board on our podcast. If you go to the podcast site, you can send us a message.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it'd be sweet.
Speaker 2:We'd love to have you on the show. Sounds good. Until next time, then you'll find out who's on the show. All right, yes, take care. See you next week.
