My Golf Source
Attention Golf Enthusiasts! Level up your golf game with hosts Darren Penquite and Noah Horstman, PGA as they keep you up to date on the latest trends, equipment, training aids and more. Learn tips and tricks from PGA Professionals to lower your score and grow your love for the game of golf.
My Golf Source
Inside the World of PGA Magazine with Jeremy Schilling
Scottie Scheffler's dominance on tour isn't about flash or swagger—it's about consistency that borders on the supernatural. "The ability to have ball striking this consistent for now three years is just spooky," says Jeremy Schilling, longtime editor at PGA Magazine, who joins us to pull back the curtain on the professional golf world.
Jeremy shares the fascinating journey that brought him to PGA Magazine thirteen years ago and offers unique insights into how the publication discovers and shares best practices across the golf industry. His personal connection to the PGA Hope program—which provides therapeutic golf opportunities for veterans—reveals the profound impact golf can have beyond competition. The memorandum of understanding between the PGA of America and the Veterans Administration has created pathways for healing that Jeremy witnessed firsthand.
We dive deep into the technology transforming golf today, from customization trends that personalize everything from clubs to apparel, to the delicate balance instructors must strike between technical data and the human touch. Jeremy articulates the paradox many golfers face: despite incredible technological advances, handicaps remain stubbornly high. The culprits? Improper fitting, insufficient practice time, and that perpetual enemy of consistency—ego.
The conversation takes us through Jeremy's most memorable articles, podcast experiences, and course recommendations that fly under the radar. His insights into the mental game and what makes courses like Harbortown truly special provide a masterclass in golf appreciation. Whether you're a teaching professional seeking to improve your programs or a recreational player wondering why your scores haven't dropped with your new equipment, this episode delivers wisdom that will transform your relationship with golf.
What golf course tops your bucket list? Let us know in the comments, and don't forget to subscribe for more conversations with the personalities shaping golf's future.
Welcome to the MyGolfSource podcast. Welcome to MyGolfSource. I'm Darren and I'm Noah. Welcome to another episode of golf talk. Training advice, industry insights behind the scenes. Look of the pga. Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 3:How good was the british open? Oh my gosh, dude. I'm super impressed with scotty scheler, his abilities. Just after big interviews, so many players fold and Scotty Scheffler had. They were trying to blow up everything he was saying about how he didn't care about winning. And yet he does care about winning, but it's not the most important thing.
Speaker 2:You get out there and you have fun.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you play golf to the best of your ability.
Speaker 2:Right, and you play golf to the best of your ability.
Speaker 3:Right, and there's so many more messages to what he was saying, but almost like he let you decide whatever it meant, and so the media is like he doesn't care. He doesn't care about it.
Speaker 2:Scheffler's always been a class act, but I saw a level of class and professionalism in him that I hadn't seen before. How so? The way he conducted himself with the media, the way he handled like the opposition you were just talking about, and just his demeanor on the course was solid.
Speaker 3:Yeah for sure. You know I played with your son this morning yes, at Rogue Valley Country Club for the first time. It was a pleasure. He did awesome. It was really fun to go out there and really get him to understand the etiquette at a private club and have him meet everybody and take his hat off inside and all the things that you need to do. And he asked me on the drive over after I picked him up who do you think is going to win the next major and who's going to win the FedEx Cup essentially? And I was like, well, give me three options. And he goes Scottie Scheffler.
Speaker 2:Bryson.
Speaker 3:DeChamber or Rory Rory McIlroy, and he actually put somebody else in there?
Speaker 3:And I was like, well, it's kind of hard to rule out Scottie Scheffler right now when he's playing the best golf of anybody. And he's playing the best golf he's played. He's been the world's number what for two, three years. Now it's going on a few, yeah, um, yeah, I'm not 100 certain on that one, but ultimately he's one of those guys that he has every shot, he's got his own golf swing and he's fearless. So when you put those things together, it's pretty difficult and he hits it.
Speaker 2:So far rory plays six side for six, is that right?
Speaker 3:hmm, you're asking the wrong guy. Literally once sheffler took the 4 or 5 shot lead, I zoomed out. I was painting at my house. Actually I'm putting a new walk-in closet in for my wife. I just came here from there and I did electrical with my dad closet like how fun is that now I have a tournament tomorrow to play in after doing all that work. Doesn't sound like fun at all. You know what? I just look at it as if it's a happy wife. It's a happy life.
Speaker 2:Indeed.
Speaker 3:Yes, sir.
Speaker 2:And I think your wife is sitting in the room next door.
Speaker 3:Oh she is, we just talked about it. I showed her a video of the lights turning on and she smiled. So that's a good sign, excellent. So today we have a new guest, and I've known this person probably for a year, year and a half, and he is an editor for PGA Magazine, coming from the East Coast. I'd love to introduce Jeremy Schilling.
Speaker 1:Hey guys, thanks for having me. How are you?
Speaker 3:Good, good Thanks for being on the show with us, Jeremy. How are you today?
Speaker 1:I am fine and I would love to, if I can, to pick up on something you were talking about with the Scotty discussion. Yeah, which is that the fascinating thing about Scotty? And well, A, he just fascinates me, the ability to just play this consistent and have this ball striking be this consistent for now three years, which is just spooky, how consistent the ball striking has been. But if you, if you go back to, if you go back to the us open, he missed a couple putts coming out of that weather delay. If he doesn't miss those and he makes those, he's winning that US Open. And it's just so fascinating how golf sometimes it's one lip, one inch, whatever you want to say to how close it is.
Speaker 1:And to your son's point about who's going to win the next major, remember, with the tour championships, new format change and the elimination of starting strokes now going back to being dead. Even there's a good chance that name a random person. If they have a great week they can beat Scottie. That's been shown. So it's no guarantee that Scottie walks off as the FedExCup champion, but in a 72-hole sprint it'll be fascinating to see how well he can do once. Everybody, you know, Fascinating to see how well, he can do. Once everybody, you know, once everybody starts perfectly, even Kameez like.
Speaker 2:Is it just me? Or when I watch Scotty play, he's just, he's solid, he's consistent, but there's nothing that may, there's nothing about him. When you watch his swing, when you watch him from the tee box, that just makes you go oh my gosh, that's amazing. He doesn't have that swagger like Tiger.
Speaker 1:Woods or Bryson DeChambeau, yeah.
Speaker 2:You watch Bryson swing and it just you're just like ouch, oh my gosh, that hurts.
Speaker 1:He just annihil. Oh ouch, oh, my gosh that hurts. I will say that.
Speaker 1:Shuffler's footwork is interesting. I'm not sure we teach people Scotty's toe dance, but he just plods along and leads the boring golf and, as you know, and I have talked about a lot like boring golf is what you want. Maybe not as a viewer, but as a golfer, I'll take boring golf and, as you know, and I have talked about a lot like boring golf is what you want. Maybe not as a viewer, but as a golfer, I'll take boring golf all day.
Speaker 3:Well, I don't call it boring when you rattle off six birdies in a row. That's exciting yeah. Right, even if you hit the fairway and you hit the green to six feet for six. You're like whoa, what's he going to do next? What's he going to do next? I mean, in your mind you're like they can't hold on this much. Is he going to make a seventh right? Is he going to shoot 29? That's a good point 58 watch.
Speaker 1:That's a good point and I think in the ratings you're starting to see people be interested in what will Scotty do next?
Speaker 2:We'll call it boring anticipation.
Speaker 1:Yes, I like that, darren.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So, Jeremy, obviously you've been with the magazine for some time and I would love to hear a little bit more. I'm not even 100% certain how you got started with it, but we've talked a lot about best practices. As a PGA professional, I've submitted a few with you and with a few other editors, but would love to hear your story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the 2012 PGA the one at Kiowa that Rory won the PGA of America had sent out a bunch of social media correspondence and I said to myself, wow, I would have liked to have that job, but I never saw it posted anywhere on job boards. I was looking for jobs at the time and I'm like how did this happen? So it happened that this randomly DM somebody his name is Sean Fairholme, who now works for my golf spy and said hey, how did this come about? And he told me about PGA Magazine. I've been a diehard golfer ever since I was a junior never heard of the magazine, which which is understandable because it's a four pros by pros, industry kind of trade magazine, you could say. And he got me hooked up with his boss and that went to the boss above. And next thing, you know, I'm starting to write articles. So that was August of 2012. I'm coming up on my. So that was August of 2012. I'm coming up on my. What'd that be?
Speaker 2:13 years. More about math, 14 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 13 year anniversary of being at PGA Magazine. It's been a wild, crazy ride.
Speaker 3:Man, that is really cool. And I mean PGA Magazine is more than just PGA Magazine I mean I couldn't name all the publications that's under the umbrella of that company or the parent company. I'm associated with it as a PGA Magazine ambassador and after I won Teacher of the Year Award in Northern Ohio PGA, I was invited to become an ambassador and it's a unique opportunity to be in that grouping because there's so many perks and group travel and just ways to educate yourself amongst other industry professionals, and leading ones at that. So it's always fun to be a part of it and get invited to teacher of the year conferences and I know they have professional of the year conferences and everything all over the country to some of the best resort spots. So I'd be kind of curious, because you're an editor and you talk to so many professionals, how do you kind of pick and choose who you reach out to?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great question and the way I always answer that is articles come to us in two ways.
Speaker 1:Either we, the writers, spot something on TV, in an article somewhere, something that we think about ourselves as golfers, or people send us ideas and they either send us fully formed articles that we then edit down, or people send us just ideas, basically elevator pitches, and we roll from there. But, yeah, those are the two main forms that best practices come to us. We also have begun and, just so that your listeners know, what runs in the physical magazine does not always cross over to the pros that have subscribed to the best practices newsletter. So what I sometimes do is I go into the magazine and I will find something that may be a small footnote on some larger article and turn it into a best practice and go from there. So those are the kind of main ways that we get articles and they run the gambit hearing a veteran's voice to help lead them through PGA Hope, to how to get your food and beverage department more access to the golf course, to how to make your scheduling system better. If you're a golfer, I mean, I run the gamut of things.
Speaker 2:Jeremy, do you find that most of the content you write about is self-initiated, or is it something that's assigned to you?
Speaker 1:It's probably 75% self-initiated, 25% assigned in quotes, that's a nice balance.
Speaker 1:It gives you some autonomy, yeah, it really is, yeah, and there's a ton of autonomy. The cool thing about the staff at PGA Magazine is that and they've been great to me from day one is, once you get the hang of what a best practice is and the important section and the business impact section and kind of what we need for an article, is they kind of let us go. If you want to call somebody because we have a, you know, a hinge center, maybe an idea or a hunch, yeah, go for it. If not, you know, pass and move on to the next thing. So there's a there's a ton of of of of stuff.
Speaker 1:And also, I should mention before, or should have mentioned before, we also contact award winners because in our view, if you've won an award for something, you've got a best practice in you. So we frequently reach out to whether it's Gulf Range Award winners or National Award winners or section award winners. We will frequently reach out to you because you have clearly done something correct to earn this award. So we would like to repurpose that and share it with your brethren.
Speaker 2:What is the most impactful article you've written that you're the most proud about over the last 13 years?
Speaker 1:It's a great story, sorry, great question.
Speaker 2:I'm sure there's a story behind it, so we definitely want to hear it, my grandfather served in World War II.
Speaker 1:He served stateside, never in battle, but he served. He was from outside of St Louis and he did his basic training at Jefferson Barracks outside of St Louis. There is now a VA hospital there that has a fantastic PGA Hope program Shout out to Allie Wells and the Gateway section. And I got to write about that program. And I normally don't share what I do with my extended family because they don't really have an interest in you know the day-to-day how to make you know more money in a golf course type articles. But I shared this one with them because I it was personal for me and it was personal for for them as well. And if you know a veteran out there, please, please, please, find the PJ hope section near you or try a PJ hope chapter near you. It's an amazing program that may save your life. So just a shout out to PJ hope, um, but that's definitely been the most impactful by far.
Speaker 2:Tell me about the story.
Speaker 1:It wasn't the story itself. It wasn't the story itself. It was so. What a lot of people don't understand is that the pg of america and the va have a have a memorandum of understanding. Um, that that basically cuts a lot of red tape down. And it was basically a story to basically ask your VA, if you're a patient or if you're a golf professional from near that area, contact your VA hospital. You may find customers for your PGA Hope programs at VA hospitals and if there's not a chapter that's already set up, go to the MOU, because they can cut down a ton of red tape. It's an amazing, amazing thing and not many things have a memorandum of understanding with the Veterans Administration of the United States of America. So it was a really cool story in that respect to be able to kind of share in that kind of. I always try to lift up any PGA hopes that I write about, so to be able to do that one that's so close to my heart made a big difference.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we Jeremy. We have a PGA hope program out here in Southern Oregon as well and we have a VA hospital here in Southern Oregon as well that is underutilized, underfunded. It used to have a great sports program in that it had a golf course on property. They even do VA housing, don't they?
Speaker 3:Yeah, they basically put into VA housing instead of the things that might have actually helped them. They could have built that anywhere, so they built the housing over the course. Even the fields are destructed so there's not really any athletic or anything that would potentially help them with the PTSD. And we know golf does that and it's amazing what it does and it gives somebody a reason, you know, to continue, for the most part, to be in a community of other people and that had similar, you know, whether it's war or loss of limb or anything to that matter. It's just incredible to see these people come out and learn the game of golf and just how grateful they are to have someone helping them and learn the game of golf and just how grateful they are to have someone helping them.
Speaker 2:And what's super cool about golf and its therapeutic abilities for veterans is that it's so much more accessible than other sports. There's so many tools out there. I mean we had David's chair on here talking about accessibility for people with disabilities to be able to get out on the golf course and play, and and it's that one sport that you know all ages, from being able to being a toddler up to, you know, being 90 years old.
Speaker 3:You can get out there on the golf course and play golf yeah, I mean we always say 3 to 93 at the golf garage is who we teach, and so we have a stair-step approach for everything, and so it's it's interesting to Jeremy because, again, that's a cool story and it is. It's close to home for all of us and it's the reason we have an amazing country, obviously because of the people that served here. So we appreciate that. Um, you know, and and I guess for me as a PGA professional, I'd I'd also be curious and like what is the craziest thing that anyone's ever asked you Like they've approached you and said, hey, I have a best practice and you're just like no way you're allowed to share that. Yeah, let's hear it.
Speaker 1:Yep, but before that, I just want to just just say that everything both of you guys said was was was awesome, and I actually just um, uh, I brought up the best practice here on my computer and it was actually to bring golf into the hospitals and to utilize areas on the property of the hospitals that was not being used and use things like snag uh golf, which you know you, you know is so like you don't need a lot of space when you're using that kind of equipment. So it's, um, it is, it is really really uh, cool, um, and and it's something that can be done and something to consider out there. Um, if you are, um interested in terms of a craziest story, there are two. Somebody tried to pitch me on.
Speaker 1:We installed new couches in the locker room. What color were they? Did that? Well, I said, like, what's the purpose of this? We just want to make the locker room better. Did it like, is there any discernible business impact from it or is it just making people more comfortable? And I said no, it's just making people more comfortable. I said, all right, for that one you may want to touch, like Home and Garden magazine or something you know, one of those people. And then the other is a PGA pro who I will not name once pitched staying hydrated on the PGA show floor.
Speaker 3:Sweet. What does that mean Exactly?
Speaker 1:There's no depth to it, right Like, okay, you're going to be on your water or beer. Yeah, right, no, no, no, no, it was. It was totally about like making sure that you're prepped for the pga show by staying hydrated, have snacks with you, etc. And I said, sir or ma'am, whoever it was, that's a great tip or trick. It's not a best practice. I don't see how having extra water with me would lead to me getting a deal, so. So those are the two crazy pitches.
Speaker 3:I mean maybe if a vendor was really thirsty and they needed some water and you'd be like, yeah, give me 40% more off on this order. You got that going for you.
Speaker 2:Make that water 40% more hydrated.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if he was stealing all the water and he had like one bottle left, then yeah, that would be a great one. Love that.
Speaker 1:What's interesting, noahah, is that this is like, this was way back, this is pre-simulator, um, you know time. So a lot of these things that I would think about now is like, okay, if you think about hydration, I would say to this person are you thinking about it for your facility and what it has? Because where it's, you know kegs, beer, taps, wine, you know nights, whatever like the, the second screen of the second screen is becoming bigger and bigger and that stuff is very interesting. But this is way back when and yeah, that that person wanted a tip or trick for the pga show and did not have a best practice that met these standards and practices that he had here.
Speaker 3:So do you know Bryant Shuford and Ryan Gingro with PGA Magazine, and Patrick Cherry, who used to be there?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Bryant is the guy who I won the Golf Range Awards with.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Bryant's the partner in crime of that. The other, patrick, hired me, so that's so, I know that. And then the other was jingro. I think he's ryan jingro. Yeah, so he's somebody who's like, and I try to explain this to people and it's it's kind of hard to explain, but I'm in like my kind of digital siloes, so to, and there are people in other parts of our vast universe with our other publications or outputs that I know of but are not familiar with. So I have heard of Ryan for a long time, but I uh I'm not personally friends with, uh, mr Drinkwell.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, no, uh. So Ryan's the one that asked me to be a PGA magazine ambassador, and then Bryant and I are really close friends. Um, he actually texted me yesterday asked me how things are going so for the golf range, association awards and whatnot. We're always talking a lot, but I mean those guys are going nonstop and know everybody in the golf industry, so like that's kind of what I imagine you are too. I bet your network is crazy. So what are some of the highest end private clubs that you have done stories with? So maybe a professional from a Cypress or Seminole or have you done anything at some level? That's just like you consider it like an elite club and then also a club that maybe no one's ever heard of. That you know.
Speaker 1:Just like incredible you know what's really interesting about that um, the, the way the, the way you worded that is. Schufer knows so many people, both from the awards and all the other stuff that he does with the magazine, and he gets the two waves, as I like to call them. He gets the professionals and he gets the owner operators, who are not always pga certified. I tend to get most of the pga certified, you know, guys, but I'm not, except for a couple cases, knowing of the couple of cases, knowing of the um huge owner operator type, um, you know, uh, situations, what I will say is, whenever you call pebble, whenever you call um Augusta national for something, whenever you call um, you know name, the place, um seminal.
Speaker 1:Bay Hill, bay Hill you know, name the place, um, seminal bay hill, bay hill, sawgrass, right, right, you know, like any of those it's fun, I would say the person somebody once asked me like who's the most famous person that you've done something with? Um, and I, I, I laugh and I said there's actually two answers to this question. The most famous person or club is probably Cary Crosby at Southern Hills. The other one is Brian Kroll, solely because of his PGA championship work for CBS, and I love you guys there, brian, sorry, brian. So I know people from multiple levels, of just being a golf junkie and also you know, from from from being um stuff, uh, someone who has made a lot of phone calls in my day. What I will say is that I give the folks at las colinas and I I know it's hosted a pj tour event in the past, but that thing is like a freight train they got a department everywhere and the same with Oak Hill too Just the professionalism of Las Colinas and Oak Hill.
Speaker 3:Oak Hill is New York right. Whenever I call for anything, new York upstate, yep, yep, yep. My buddy used to be the caddy master there.
Speaker 1:And it's just like the professionalism top to bottom is there's just a lot of really really good people in a lot of these clubs. But that's how I would answer that question. I hope I did that correctly and I was able to do a best practice with Scott Paris, who was the professional of the year this past year, practice with Scott Paris, who was the professional of the year this past year. So I do people who have won tens of thousands of awards and those who have not won any awards. So I've done meetings all the way up.
Speaker 2:With all the technology advancements that's been coming into the golf industry over the last couple of years, what do you see? That's trending big.
Speaker 1:I'll give you two answers to that. One is kind of technology and the other is a trend. That is because of technology Customization of anything a hat, a shirt, a bag, a ball, shorts, leisure wear like you name it it can be customized.
Speaker 2:Get your business logo on golf balls yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that I've learned and golf balls have been done for a very long time.
Speaker 1:But like having the clubs you know, like you get the members only alternate logo onto something you know that's kind of like a really like a next level, next level thing.
Speaker 1:And the other is the amount of data that a pro has juxtaposed I don't know why I've used this word like three times, but I guess here we'll go through it Juxtaposed against the human touch. I'm somebody myself in my golf swing where if you want to help me with something, I need to feel it. I actually need to feel the club and like feel where that club should be in the back swing, you can tell me I'm 10 000 rpms the wrong way or whatever. That's not going to resonate with me. So if using the, the tech, but also marrying it with the physical, um, you know that that kind of old school relationship where it's maybe an alignment rotted on the ground and then you just tell me where that club should be, kind of deal like the old school way of if you're, if you're in the wrong place and your back's when the good whip on the butt with the with an alignment rod will get the point across real quick.
Speaker 1:Oh boy, I mean, look, you talked about Scotty Shuff earlier. Randy Smith is as old school as it gets and Scotty is very low tech. He's got a track man, basically just to hang out with him, I feel like.
Speaker 3:You know what's interesting about what you said about the industry and the up and coming. So I took some time and I was down at TaylorMade in a. It was our first National Fitting Council meeting that I was a part of and we get to see all the stuff coming out the next year. That's, you know, you sign your NDA and your life away and all that and it's super fun and we can talk amongst our group about it.
Speaker 3:But everything's been going customized really since the OptiFit driver that Callaway had in 2014, I want to say, and they were too early, so it was the shaft and the head and it could be optimized with the FT3 and the FTIQ or something driver that was square headed. It's like the first square headed driver. The Nike copied it, I believe, and it's so interesting to me that they have four or five, six, seven years, you know, of the next stuff all ready to go and we're only able to see the next year. You know, and it's crazy that they can make it that much better year over year within the constraints of the USGA regulations, to allow golfers to play better golf.
Speaker 2:Yet handicaps still stay high right, I mean, you've been a golfer for so long right.
Speaker 3:So 10 of golfers can maybe shoot 90s so that's just that.
Speaker 2:That brings up an interesting question do these golf club manufacturers who are developing things six, seven years out, do they have lobbyists that go to the usga to no try to change? Rules, so their golf clubs will become compliant in the future.
Speaker 3:No, they have lobbyists to see where they can go mine their rubber at next for their golf balls probably. Where are they getting their? Because you don't think about that right, all the resources they have to go through for titanium and carbon fibers and the graphite shaft.
Speaker 3:And then making the deals with the shaft companies of this is the type of shaft that you're going to have in your you know, driver Cause. If you look at it, there are, you know, each year. Fuji curve is a big one, but Mitsubishi comes out with something Right. Then you saw the Dustin Johnson shaft come out with Taylor made and it's just like it's really interesting to me how they test and they test and they test, yet they come to. We're going to use this shaft because it fits the most players. And going to the data that you talked about, jeremy, the only reason that's known is because of a facility like mine, because Foresight is tracking every shot, trackman is tracking every shot and all those SIM bays, regardless if it's networked in, they see it. It's pretty crazy.
Speaker 2:So your, your systems here are uploading data to the manufacturers.
Speaker 3:That's correct. There's ways to make it where they don't, but ultimately I want them to have that data? Because now they're going to make equipment better. I mean, they're all technology companies. They're getting information to sell to someone else. That's really their, their strategy to make lots of money.
Speaker 1:Yep, I think an interesting point on this is that. To the question, though, of why aren't golfers better even with this great tech, I think it's twofold. And we talk of place and time and all that stuff, which is a side story. People too often I have friends through the pandemic who did this bought equipment without getting fitted. That's just a no-go. Every single person is different. Buying it off the rack is the worst thing you can do to your game.
Speaker 3:Amen, you know I'm going to say that real quick. Every player is different is my philosophy, so thank you for saying that person.
Speaker 2:Every club in my bag I bought right off the rack, with the exception of my putter 100.
Speaker 3:Sorry to interrupt. Go ahead, I just have a chat after the show oh, we have this chat daily.
Speaker 2:Oh no, he's in trouble.
Speaker 3:He's already in trouble he wants to break 80, yet he's in trouble. He's already in trouble. He wants to break 80, yet he's that guy. So we're going to make that happen?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no. And then this is where the time element comes in. You have ill-fitted clubs, so now you get fitted, right Now you don't have the time to practice, to be able to play, because life's crazy. So you can only play and not practice, and you would know the numbers better than I do, noah. But I feel like too many golfers for family reasons, whatever it is, prioritize playing over practicing, and there you go.
Speaker 2:And I think there's this thing that us men have called an ego.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's it.
Speaker 2:Where we get out on the course and we know what the strategic play should be, but we don't do it. We make a conscious choice to avoid the strategic play and go for the green every single time, and I think until men can overcome that and I'm speaking for myself too, you know's not
Speaker 1:gonna happen. You're right on, darren, because what I've said for years and I, and and I'm guilty of this myself I'm playing tomorrow morning. I might be guilty of it, um, excuse me, tomorrow, but like I'm envisioning the first hole where I'm playing tomorrow and I just if I get a straight shot right over the right edge of the bunkers, it's fine. If I go more towards, straight over the bunkers, I'm bringing the left rough into play. That's maybe not the right play for me, especially if the rough is dense and thick and juicy, which I think it'll be.
Speaker 3:Real thick and juicy what I said, real thick and juicy. I was thinking of the Sir Mix-a-Lot song when you said that I don't know, I don't know what happened, but you're like and it's really thick and it's and it's juicy and I was like and I started almost wanting to do the beat.
Speaker 2:he maybe got back coming into his head.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, I don't know what it is about. New Jersey rough man. But yeah it looks innocuous, and then it'll just twist your club shaft before you.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, are you playing a course that we know?
Speaker 1:Uh, you might know it, it's how many Hill?
Speaker 3:I have heard of that, so have you heard of a? Hollywood Hollywood country club on the on the shore. Yeah, so I caddied for one of my students in the senior women's amateur at Hollywood. What an awesome golf course that is in a cool area.
Speaker 1:I've not gotten to play there, but I've heard great things about it.
Speaker 3:I've heard good things about another one called Pine Valley. That's in New Jersey. It's pretty good. From what I understand, you played that one.
Speaker 1:I have not gotten to play Pine Valley.
Speaker 3:Come on, someone of your status in the magazine should be able to play Pine.
Speaker 2:Valley. What's the best course you've ever played?
Speaker 1:I played, so I'll answer it this way I've played a golf course at a PGA Tour event was on, and that's Kings Mills River Course, hosted an event for many years and then the LPGA until sponsor issues happened, so that's the most famous in quotes course I've played. What the best course I've ever played? My favorite course maybe Shawnee, which hosted the 1937 PGA Championship back when it was match play I've heard of that.
Speaker 3:Where's that one at Shawnee?
Speaker 1:It is right on the Delaware Water Gap between Pennsylvania and New.
Speaker 1:Jersey the 27-hole facility and my favorite fact about this course, because people don't realize that the PGA Championship was match play for so many years. And if you go back in history and go way, way, way back to 1938, I apologize 38,. Paul Runyon won eight and seven over some guy you might know named Sam Snead. Paul Runyon won eight and seven over some guy you might know named Sam Snead. So to say that I walk the same fairways and greens that Sam Snead uh walk is is a pretty cool statement to make.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and Paul Runyon was a pretty good putter, as I understand it.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:It's pretty cool. So I I used to listen to Bob Rotella, mental coach, obviously still out there big time, and obviously you know now there's this potential for fear of missing a putt with a bushel basket. Yet Paul Runyon made even more putts because he was such a good putter and he understood how to aim properly at a small target. Yet the other players were so fearful of what had happened before. And I'm again, I I'm assuming that's a true story, but you know, that's what Rotella said and putting out of your mind and I just thought it was such a cool story to hear about from a guy that I didn't grow up with, so know anything about that.
Speaker 1:I know that he's helped Rory with a lot of his mental game. Yeah, I had not heard that story about Rory. I had not heard that story about Rortella. I know that Bob Rortella is a major force that gets overlooked in getting Rory to a place that he could finally conquer his demons at Augusta and let all that weight lift off of him.
Speaker 3:You know, I kind of briefly remembered it Maybe a commentator or two did mention about that Rory was having those talks with Rutella during the end of the week. I kind of remember that and again, I don't recall all of it. But yeah, it's pretty interesting how mental golf is and it seems to me like the best practices is everybody should have a mental performance coach at their facility, like we do.
Speaker 1:No, the amount of people that I've tried to to to, uh, I I've you can't self advocate or endorse for DJ magazine, but the amount of places that I've talked to that have some kind of, some type of mental facility, uh, um, especially places that have that, um, that have college or high schools, go through there. I mean I say to the person every time every golfer should walk through that person's office and sit down and have a chat, because you never realize what's going on with course management. You never realize where that person might be losing a stroke. And if you think about Rory's back nine on Sunday at Augusta and what happened at 13, and I thought the train was coming off the tracks there and he somehow got it together and he won it in a playoff, if that's not the best endorsement for a mental coach, I don't know what it is.
Speaker 2:So you spend a lot of time with other writers and PGA professionals and stuff. What do you think is the most underrated course in the nation? That? You guys talk about behind the scenes like, oh, this course gets given a lot of crap, or you know.
Speaker 1:I don't. You said overrated or underrated.
Speaker 2:Underrated. We don't want to talk bad about anybody. Let's give props to the ones that maybe don't get as much positive talk as they should.
Speaker 1:It's funny because and this is going to be more PGA Tour oriented, because I just hear it a lot People say Bay Hill is overrated. I don't quite see why Bay Hill is overrated. The course I think is underrated is Harbortown. It's an old school golf course. You can't bomb it there.
Speaker 1:You have to manufacture your way around it. Obviously, with the RBC being a signature event, it's gotten a lot more spotlight in recent years. But I just think that that golf course and what Pete Dye did all those years back and it visually looks so good with the water right next to it and the railroad ties and stuff, it's just a visually cool golf course to look at what are your plans in the next year?
Speaker 2:what's on your plate?
Speaker 1:oh gosh, um, write a lot more articles. Um, write um a really write really interesting articles. Um and then further expand out, teeing it up, which is my podcast, and I apologize for the self-indulgence, no plug it away.
Speaker 1:Tell us about your podcast yeah, so teeing it up with jeremy schilling is my college radio show that I've continued after college. Um, so you will find everything there, from Alan Shupak to Roger Maltby to Alan Shipnuck to Dan Hicks to Mike Tirico to Scott Van Pelt, to my friend Jordan and his Knicks fandom, to my buddy Danny andy and his uh, uh football betting. Um, analysis, it's all over the place, but I love it that way and uh, it's on, it's, it is. Wherever you get your podcast, please subscribe, rate and review, preferably five stars, just like this podcast. Um, and it's kind of my outlet to just talk about whatever.
Speaker 1:And back in the day it was every week. Back in the day it was every football Sunday and every week. Now it's kind of more hodgepodge. I've also grown older so there's more things going on in my life. But you know, trying to do as much as I can with as many people as I can and get as many cool guests on it takes a lot. It takes a lot of okays and thumbs up from PR departments and stuff. It's harder than some people may think to get the okays to do. Some of you know some of what I like, sorry, what I would like to do, but I try my best to do it every time.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Anything else you want to plug?
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, yes. A couple things and thank you for giving me this opportunity. Number one, for any veteran out there who's listening to this PGA Hope. For any junior out there who's listening to this pga hope for any junior out there. Pga junior league. Um, I'm I'm not sure I if, if, if you want to play your own, no, go ahead, um, but pga junior league, you can find it wherever you find golf in the us. It's an amazing program to get kids involved. Pga Hope, obviously, for the vets out there. You know, keep if you run a golf course, if you operate a golf course, if you write sorry, if you work for a golf course, try to convince ownership to give you more money if you need it, justify it. That is not a plug, it's just something that I've seen over time that people will say to me off the record man, if my ownership would just allow me to do X, y, z, create a plan, bring it to ownership. See what they'll say.
Speaker 3:Yeah, without question, that was something that has been a struggle for so long for so many, with so many professionals staying in the industry for 30 to 50 years and then they partially retire as instructors after they've been in the profession of maybe just running the shop, right, and so they just keep going and going. And you know part of the reason they keep teaching maybe because they love people, but they have to, because they didn't maybe make the right deal with the golf course, because the owners, you know, maybe they're for fear of whatever, but, like you said, having the plan in place is huge. You know, I consider myself a mentor to others when it comes to how to seek out promotion and continue to accomplish your goals. You know, we have six PGA associates that work at Golf Garage and we're a Golf Channel Academy as well with NBC Sports. You know, like you said, I try to support every program because we have over 150 different player development programs and PGA Junior League is a piece of that puzzle, right? Op 36 is a piece of that puzzle.
Speaker 3:Family golf, ladies stuff, anything you want to spin on and have, you know, wine and wedges and Pilates, pinot and putting and all that, right, it's all good stuff. But where people fall short is they build this master program and then what's next? And they forget about the next step after they've done the one program and they lose sight of those people that they had and they don't keep the engagement. So the things that we're looking at when we want raises are cool. What have you done for me lately, and if you can prove that? Well, last year per person spend was $50 and now it's up to $52. And next year I projected to be $55. Every time they come in and we're increasing our rounds, pretty easy for you to get that raise. Otherwise you say I'm out of here. I'll go do this for another course.
Speaker 1:Not hard and to that end also, it's having a plan. I think a lot of people don't take the time to do it or try to do it on a whim or whatever.
Speaker 3:have a plan well, also like resources. You're a great resource in our industry and people don't think about you. Know someone that's editing and creating content. You're promoting that person and you're not going to write a bad article, because we get to read it before it goes out to make sure it's correct anyway. And then, on top of that, how many people actually, instead of tooting their own horn when they talk to you, ask you hey, you know, what are some things I could do in this environment to help better myself? You've heard everything and I think we have career consultants, but someone like you is a career consultant in my mind and I think getting to know people that are editing and creating these best practices is a great way. And then, on top of that, reaching out to the professionals that are putting these best practices out, because every person I've ever reached out to has picked up the phone or called me back within a day or two. It's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yep, jamie Hoke, I believe, is his last name. I apologize, jamie, if I mispronounced your name out in Union League Philly, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Great great facility Facilities.
Speaker 1:Fantastic, created this Pokemon Go-like game. That took me a little bit to wrap my head around, right. That like, took me a little bit to wrap my head around right. But he said the amount of phone calls he got after that piece ran was insane, because it's not, you know, you don't see of trading cards and attack and defense as something anything related to golf, but it resonated with the juniors who he was working with and at the bottom of every best practice. If you would like more from, if you would like to talk to this person directly, here's our email. That's the way to do. It is to reach out and I'm happy to talk to whoever. But the real work, if you see something, speak up because those are the people that are actually doing it, and doing it well, because we're featuring them well, because we're featuring them, and that's where you can really learn a lot and get yourself in a place of of program growth. Really fast.
Speaker 3:Hey, jeremy. We had a great time with you on the show today and appreciate all your insight into the golf industry. I think Darren's got one more for you.
Speaker 2:We ask everybody this question what is on your bucket list for courses to play that you've never played?
Speaker 1:simple augusta national attainable courses or is that attainable and um, I have no idea if it's attainable or not. Um, I would love in in terms of attainable. I've never done the Pinehurst Tobacco Road run.
Speaker 2:That would be cool, really good. What's your favorite course out here on the West Coast?
Speaker 1:So I went to, I tried to play the Hay, which is now the Part three at Pebble.
Speaker 1:Tiger's Place at Pebble. It has a new name, I believe, or maybe it's still called the hay after he redid it, but there's a car show going on at the time. I was like nine years old, um, and I have not been back to the west coast to play golf since, um, I am overdue for a trip out west to see family and also to swing some clubs out there. So, you know, pebbles on that, but like, realistically, whether it's, you know, a spyglass or a Poppy Hills or anything in that kind of Northern California area.
Speaker 2:Next time you're here, next time you're on the West Coast, this is a formal invite to come and join us in studio for the podcast. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I would love to. I will take that invite up.
Speaker 3:Hey, jeremy thanks again, man, I will have you speak with my agent. After the show and we'll work that out Well and I'll get you that best practice that we were talking about as well.
Speaker 1:Okay, yes, thank you guys for having me. I greatly enjoyed this. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Thanks, jeremy, take care, no, what do we have to look forward to in the coming weeks? We are off next week.
Speaker 3:We are off next week and we're going to be and dude sandpiper for you, hopefully, yeah, at least a few times. That's Northern California ish.
Speaker 2:Maybe a little South, is that, oh we don't associate the two. Oh good, Just like Southern Oregon and after.
Speaker 3:Roseburg or something. Yes, hey, you know what?
Speaker 2:And then I'm coming back a bachelor for like a month.
Speaker 3:Yes, so it's time to grind. Yes, well, you know, we're going to keep some in-house here pretty soon. We're going to get both our director of instruction and we're going to get our performance coach and fitness on the show, because we're going to talk a lot about assessments and movement. I'm really excited about that.
Speaker 2:Thanks for joining us. We'll see you again in a couple of weeks. Take care.
