My Golf Source
Attention Golf Enthusiasts! Level up your golf game with hosts Darren Penquite and Noah Horstman, PGA as they keep you up to date on the latest trends, equipment, training aids and more. Learn tips and tricks from PGA Professionals to lower your score and grow your love for the game of golf.
My Golf Source
From Lesson To Breakthrough
We talk through real swing changes, why impact-first coaching works, and how to turn practice into faster gains on the course. Brian Jacobs joins us to share a coach’s playbook: clear notes, kinesthetic moves, tighter curve windows, and a 90-day path to better scoring.
• Arizona tournament recap and learning moments
• Shallowing, setup, rotation, and carry gains
• Feel versus real and video feedback
• Confidence, tempo, and constraint-led practice
• Transformational coaching versus transactional lessons
• Archiving notes and setting 90-day expectations
• Impact-back diagnosis and three-yard curve goal
• Alignment, aim, and proximity over vanity stats
• Couples therapy approach and boundaries on course
• Fitness fusion, speed training, and motor patterns
• On-course coaching focus for 2026
• Favorite courses, bucket list, and future visit plans
Until next week, take care
Welcome to the My Golf Source Podcast. Good afternoon. Good evening. Good morning. Whatever it is to you. Welcome to my golf tours. I am Darren. And I'm Noah. And it's gloomy outside, my man. It has been off and on rain all day. You just got back at 11 o'clock last night from Arizona. One o'clock. One o'clock this morning from Arizona.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, with the SW golf team. Um, you know, it was an awesome experience, 86 degrees every day, had a little bit of wind. You literally couldn't ask for better weather. And, you know, the team fought hard. We had both the men's and the women's down at a very big golf tournament. There were 16 men's teams um down there, and SW finished in the middle of the field at 10th, but we were really only about 10 shots out of third. Or I'm sorry, about uh sorry, we were 30 shots out of third, but it felt like 10 because we were making uh Eagles followed up by some big numbers. So was this the course they were able to practice on the SEM? Uh this was not uh not this time. No, they went down last year, actually. So we had really we had some success last year. Um Kira won the tournament last year, won under par. Um this year, you know, in the top 10 again. She had a chance to be in the lead and um she had a couple double bogeys. So unfortunately, she didn't get the victory um back-to-back years, but just really big learning um curve, I would say. You know what that sounds a whole lot like, Noah?
SPEAKER_01:Golf. Golf. How did I know? How did I know? Well, um it's it's like me. I said I'll be one under par going into whole six or seven and shoot a 94. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:That's well, I gotta throw this one out there. The biggest, I would just say, bummer was our number two player on the women's team had mono, and we thought she was gonna get to play because and even without her, the girl stepped up and we were only a few shots out of beating a ranked team um that was 19 better than us in the country. We're 49th, they were 30th. So we were right there. Um, you know, I think with her playing, it would have probably put us over the hump and gotten us down. And we'll see where the rankings come after. But always fun to get down there and know that you can do it. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:And we talked last week. I had had my first lesson of all time with Coach Ryan, and he was working with me on shallowing out my irons. And I thought, you know, and I just went out there and took a few warm-up shots. I thought if I'm hitting my eight iron really well and I pure it, it's my 164, 165 raw carry club, you know, rolls out a little further than that. I'm out here warming up, hitting my nine iron further, five yards, six yards further than that. Sure. That's awesome. All because of with less effort because of technique. Yeah. I've been golfing for years. I've been hanging out with you for years. I'm here at the golf garage all the time.
SPEAKER_03:I don't like to help you, though. I want to take your money out.
SPEAKER_01:But it's what a lesson does for you.
SPEAKER_03:It's what the pros can do for you. Hey, so one question I have before we get our guest on the show is you said shallowing out. So that means something different to everyone. So do you consider shallowing out a mechanical thought or a feeling?
SPEAKER_01:It all starts with it all starts well, it starts up with uh putting the ball further back in my stance and it and by nature, when I'm rotating more and I'm not coming over the top, the club naturally comes in more shallow. Perfect.
SPEAKER_03:So by making an adjustment to setup and then understanding what you need to do.
SPEAKER_01:With the with the rotation and the takeaway of the club, I mean, it whether you come over the top, you know, has everything to do with your setup and your takeaway.
SPEAKER_03:Sure. So we've talked about this forever. Feel isn't real. So I'm just trying to figure out for you if, you know, when we when we get to a mastery level, it's all about this is how it feels to hit a draw, not I'm going to take the club back, you know, inside or uh, you know, outside and then come in and then you know try to you know get the hit home like a ton of bricks when I felt like I'm I'm I'm making a conscious effort to come inside out.
SPEAKER_01:You said felt. I love that. And I'm making a conscious effort to do this and it feels like I'm doing it. And then Ryan shows me a video of myself and I'm doing the complete opposite. I'm like, damn. Yeah, that hurts. It's golf. Now, how do I fix it? And that's where he's all, okay. Well, this is where we get to the setup, this is where we get to your takeaway. This is where rotation is very, very, very important.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, without without question. Um, and you know, I think what you're gonna find more and more is your confidence is gonna skyrocket as you continue to do it, right? Because you know it works, but can you maintain the tempo and can you maintain the feeling over and over again if you're right?
SPEAKER_01:That's that's where training utensils come in and alignment sticks come in and and things that will force you to not go outside, otherwise you end up hitting a stick. Without question. So yeah, you you know, just create doing it with enough repetition and enough frequency to create that new muscle memory. Love that. Nice. It feels good, other than the fact I can't I can't hit my driver. Now, last week during Sim League, you know, the my three wood was my go-to club. I can hit it almost as far as I hit my driver. Um, but I hit my three wood consistently, I wasn't even even able to make good contact with my three wood. So I'm driving with my four iron, and with the new swing, I'm hitting my four iron four iron as far as I was hitting my three wood before. Jeez, that's awesome. You're gonna be my four iron's my new driver.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So there's a yeah, that's awesome. And now you're gonna be able to uh hopefully break 80. Let's get that done. That's good. You know, I want to hear what Brian has to say about this. So uh we have Brian Jacobs, director of instruction, uh, founder of Brian Jacobs, I believe, golf academy at this point. He's at Eagle Vale Golf Club, upstate New York near Rochester. Beautiful.
SPEAKER_01:Is that Finger Lakes area?
SPEAKER_03:Could be. Not familiar.
SPEAKER_01:Ithaca.
SPEAKER_03:Sounds right. Anyway, uh Brian, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_00:Hey, thanks, guys. Thanks, Noah. Appreciate you having me on. And uh we are a little bit north of the Finger Lakes, northwest.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:But there's uh we're about 90 minutes away from from uh the first Finger Lake, which uh is uh Skeny Atlas, which is kind of a resorty cool town, and I actually taught at their club for a couple of years. It was awesome.
SPEAKER_01:Beautiful country up there.
SPEAKER_00:Beautiful. That's why I'm back from Florida. Noah will know you missed you miss the change of seasons.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah. I hear I hear that stereotypical jumping back and forth between New York and Florida. It's like a thing over there.
SPEAKER_00:It is, it's uh it's interesting. Uh people will ask, you know, here, are you seasonal or are you and I go, no, I teach full-time. It's outdoors, outdoors in the summer and spring, and then you pop indoors about um October 15th, and you go indoors till about May 3rd. And it's just kind of the way it is every year.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So, Brian, let's get a little backstory on you. We love having you on the show here. Um, you know, we've known each other for quite some time through PGA magazine, and um, you know, you are I consider you a mentor. You're always forward-thinking. You are you're a marketing marvel. I always get your emails just about every day. Um, and it's just awesome stuff that you're putting out there. And you had the opportunity to be in the national limelight last year at the show, PGA show. And uh also just, you know, you were in New York for a really long time and you kind of looked around and got to Florida. But um, tell us a little bit about your story and kind of how you, you know, started in New York, got to Florida, and and kind of how you got back.
SPEAKER_00:Sure. Well, uh, first of all, thank you so much for the the nice comments. I consider you a close friend and uh I always watch your your uh journey as well. It's uh interesting uh how how we're very similar. Umly you're a mastermind, and I'm just uh kind of a a mind, right? So um, well, my background actually is education. Uh so uh I was a school teacher for 30 years, teaching in the inner city, and then uh I was asked to coach a junior high school golf team, and I didn't know anything about golf. We didn't play as kids, we were baseball and football, and I was recruited to play baseball and football in college and uh wound up playing football. Um, so I didn't play golf until I was 30. Uh, got just fell in love with the game, got really good at it. I was a really good hitter in baseball, and uh actually had a couple tryouts, one with my my Blue Jays, even though I wanted to play for the Orioles, and then one with the Reds. And so I could always curve the golf ball. Um and I thought, oh, this game's kind of fun. You had a rough week last week then. Uh yeah, not too not too bad. I'll tell you what, it's uh it's where the money is, right? It's you can buy rosters, so you're used to it with the Yankees. Um, you know, they they can pay for pitching in a lot of the other smaller markets, they just can't, you know, and they they gotta do it with friendship, you know, and love and support.
SPEAKER_03:I'm an Indian I'm an Indians fan, man. What do you what do you call that? We can't even call them the Indians anymore, so I'm struggling.
SPEAKER_00:No, I know. I know my daughter is actually uh um she's an associate um athletic communications director at Ohio State, and her means sport is baseball. And uh she said something about the Guardians, and I go, I don't know what you're talking about. Is that an expansion team? And she's like, no, Dad, it's the Indians. No, that's never gonna be the Indians. I'm never gonna watch that.
SPEAKER_01:No.
SPEAKER_00:No, I mean, right?
SPEAKER_01:Look, the Redskins went through what two transitions in two years.
SPEAKER_00:I know it's just it's just it's kind of I don't want to get political, but it just to me, I can't call the commanders the commanders. I still call them the Redskins, and people like you can't say that, but God I do.
SPEAKER_01:Don't worry, you're in good company.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, society still goes on, and so I got very entrenched in just golf, and I always had a passion to learn, so I started calling instructors, McLean and Harmon and Craig Harmon, Butcher's brother, was up here. I went to watch him teach, I went to watch Jim teach, Dave Ledbetter, and then I went to see Hank Haney. Um, I went to his teach the teacher a couple of times, and I just fell in love with that guy. Just thought, like, this is it, black and white, either hook it or he fade it. Tiger Woods Lane, you're either on it.
SPEAKER_01:Did you get to meet him in uh Court d'Alane or where was it you met him?
SPEAKER_00:Uh I met him at his ranch in uh Louisville. And so he was doing an instructor's program. Yes, yeah, yeah. He had a ran, he had his ranch, his main facility was right in Lewisville, right by DFW. So it was Hank Haney Ranch, and that's kind of where everybody came in for a show. Um uh the Haney Project, and so I he found out I was a teacher, like a real teacher, and so his staff talked to me about helping them develop a uh teachers program, a certification program. So Tom Harlan. And uh and AJ, oh, it was fantastic. I got to get all the information I ever wanted. So I designed the program as I went through it, and and Tom Harlan and AJ Avoli kind of implemented that. And then uh so I was very honored. I worked for ESPN Golf Schools, which I I thought was just the greatest because you were getting 16 new customers, you know, four times a week. And so you saw everything. I mean, nothing will shock me. People come to the lesson team they go, I bet you never saw this before. I said, I actually saw this in like 1997, you know, or 2000. I saw this in when I was in New Jersey, and um, I got to the point where I was leading, and so you would tell the teachers that were there uh how they how you were gonna fix people. And I was really um just enamored and fascinated with John Jacobs and how he could hear a ball and where it hit. And so I used to turn my back all the time and listen, you know, and say, okay, that guy hit it off the heel, um, you know, and it's thin and it's you know, and here's how we're gonna fix some kind of a deal. And the teachers would look at me and say, How do you know that? I go, Well, when you lose your hair, right, you get other senses, right? So uh had a lot of fun for six years with them, and then I had started my own brand in 2000, and and uh I worked at clubs as an independent uh as a teacher, and I had tons of mentors. I had like Sam Rosetta, who Sam was a legend in our area. He played in the Masters and the British, and um, and he worked at an old club, the country club of Rochester, and he would take me out on the golf course and he would show me how he would hit shots and he'd say, What would you do here? And I'd say, Well, I would do this. He goes, No, no, you got to do it this way. He goes, Here's what I record, you know, and I just learned so much from these mentors. So I moved around quite a bit in the area, and at the same time, I was looking at business, trying to say, like, do I want to be at a private club? How does this run or not run? Do I want to be at a public and daily fees? Do I want to be at a golf club or a country club? And so I had 25 years, 26 years, you know, doing that along with teaching school at the same time. And so I've always said, you know, chronologically, I'm 64. When I retired, I was 57. I was 30 years at school, but in the golf business, I was only 20 years in, you know, 22 years in. I'm confused. So I was yeah, so so chronologically, I was 57. Um, I had 30 years of experience in public education, but only 22 years in teaching, and then that's the time where you started to get big jobs, right? So if I started in the business at 20, probably or 22, like Noah did, I was really only 44. I was 12 in the golf business.
SPEAKER_03:I was 12.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. I was mowing greens at 12. Oh man. Right. And so I just started to think like, man, big jobs, you know, maybe are gonna find me, and I I don't know if I want to go, I don't know how it works. And and so I started getting a lot of calls when I um signed with golf channel and started doing morning drive and started doing all these other things with golf channel. And um I had pretty much given up. I had interviewed with the PGA of America, you know, for their lead instructor. And I applied it for other positions, and I never heard anything back. And I'm like, okay, I'm either overqualified, underqualified, too ugly, uh, whatever it is, you know. You're not too ugly, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You got the you got the look. You got the look.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I used to say in makeup, I go, you I mean, you can't improve on this. I mean, this is bad, right? And you'd you'd be on with Paige McKenzie or Blair O'Neill or you know, Damon Hack, even, you know, and you're like, ah man.
SPEAKER_01:There's a reason John Daly's not giving daily advice on the golf channel anymore.
SPEAKER_00:So right, exactly. But so they kind of had to have their pretty people, and then they had to have you know a moderately handsome dude to uh to balance it out, and so just all those experiences, and uh I was done. I didn't want to apply anymore to anywhere. I was tired of the career consultants, I was tired of the good old boys club, and and you know, Noah how it works because you were at a private club. Um I just wasn't into it anymore.
SPEAKER_03:And then we've had a few conversations about this. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and absolutely, and and I and he called me and he said, You're on the radar, and I go, for what? And he goes, for this job in Florida, and I go, I'm not applying, you know, just no, you gotta apply. He goes, You're he goes, you're a lock. I go, nobody's a lock, I'm not a lock, trust me. And so I finally I did apply, never heard anything. Then I'm at the PGA show, and the director of golf and the head pro come up to me and say, Hey, you're one of our six finalists, we wanted to interview you. I go, dude, you think you could have called me? I mean, I'm sitting in 20 feet of snow, you know, and but it's their season in Florida, so you don't can't relate, right? And one thing led to another, and I wound up being at Allenhouse, a 3,000 member club with you name it, I had everything. Um you know, it was was pretty awesome, but it just it wasn't for me. Um, you know, it was uh hard to make decisions in triplicate form all the time or to go in and and say, like, hey, here's the direction. I think the team needs to go. No, we're good. You know, we're good. Like I go, no, you're not, you're not profitable. You know, X number of dollars teaching is not that much when you have eight teachers, you know. This should this should be the number, four times that.
SPEAKER_03:Brian, let's let's let's take a break right there because you you've you've thrown a lot of knowledge at us in a very quick amount of time. And and and ultimately your journey is awesome. And and I think that's a thing for upcoming professionals, right? There's so many amateur golfers that think about turning pro, and the two things they think of is playing playing and teaching. And they don't realize how many hours it takes to become a you know, someone that can really teach the game or coach the game for that matter, right? I mean, I don't consider myself a teacher. I've always considered myself a coach, just like you. I I'm like-minded. Yeah, and and and I think what's so crazy is that I've I've remember talking to you on the phone a few times about your journey, and just like you said, you know, you had these, you've you were the finalist for like four jobs. I was in the same boat before I came out to to Oregon, and there were big clubs or prevalent, you know, clubs in our minds. And then you get one, right? So now you're at this high end private, phenomenal facility, right? And it's like creme de la creme, whatever you need, they have it. You're never going to be short of teaching lessons, but it's not profitable. And that's what we dealt with um in Cleveland as well was um who I took over for, what it was like pulling teeth for them to be able to make an adjustment. And I think it took him leaving for me to come in to say this is what needs to happen, and then they finally listened because they were afraid to lose another person. And it's it's unfortunate in our industry that you have to go through people, you know, multiple times over, especially at private clubs because they do it the way they do it.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and for my thinking was I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah. For entrepreneurs, like it's just brutal because they're always going to um somewhat pigeonhole the idea because it's not the way it's always been. It's a good old boys club, like I said.
SPEAKER_00:And I and I was asked to run a business. I was handed a$2 million learning center, you know, and and so we were profitable in the club fitting area. We went up another$400,000 um just because and their fitter was awesome. He was very knowledgeable, but overwhelmed. It was only him. And then he wanted to teach, and then he was an assistant, and then and there was always this crossover of, you know, like nobody could get traction either. And they I tried to require notes, and I got back down on it, like just a simple video analysis and then notes saying, Hey, thank you for coming in, appreciate it. Here's what we covered, here's where we're going. Um, just was like, no, they don't need to do that. And they said, Well, then we're not transformational, right? We're transactional. And so you have multimillionaires here whose ceiling is very, very low to get better. And you know, they don't use the golf course. They told me you'll never be able to use the golf course, it's just too busy. I go, I'll use it. And I used it every day. And there was an exodus of students moving from the other teachers to me, and then it got to the point of where it was a little bit tenuous, right? Where the other teachers were like, Well, they're just going to you because you're the director. And I go, No, because I cost twice as much as you, so it's not that. Yeah, it's because I serve them better, you know, and so here's what I would recommend, you know, and then they just, you know, and I think, you know, at the end of the day, I learned a lot. I was there 14 months. I mean, the money was incredible, but that's not why I was there.
SPEAKER_01:Let's get to the nitty-gritty of that. What set you apart from you and the other and the other teachers mentality-wise? You said you better serve them. What do you mean by that?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think when you're in in the business, uh I I've always been in human services. So education and coaching is human services. Um, our job is to lead, you know, and to give of our time before we take care of ourselves. Um, and so when someone comes in, our job is to make that the best part of their day. And I it's not a job to me, that's just how I am. Um, and so when we do things with our students, we also have to be able to show progression and results. And so when I saw a staff member give the same lesson to the same person 10 or 12 times, you know, I said, Well, how are you progressing that person? Well, they won't do what I say. I said, Well, they can't. I said, number one, because they're not getting any progression in the appointment. You never touch them, you never move them. You know, it's a transaction. They come in, you know, and they're taking lessons for whatever reason. But at the end of the day, every single person that came in wanted to get better. They didn't come in there because they thought that was the thing to do in my mind. They did it because they wanted to improve their scores or get better at shipping or pitching or putting. Um, and that's our job. So, how do we do it? We we uh journal it right for the person. And I would say to them, you don't have to worry about anything. I'm gonna archive everything for you.
SPEAKER_01:How much of that is how much of that is having a difficult conversation with a client that maybe newer coaches are scared to have? You you tell them something that you tell them something they don't want to hear. You say, Listen, I can help, I can help you shoot a lower score, but it's not gonna be in the way you think it is.
SPEAKER_00:No, I'm very, very upfront with people. I mean, when you're changing a motor pattern like you guys were talking about before, the feel like Noah's talking about, right? You get a concept, you get a feel, and then you go to work. Well, it takes 18 to 254 days to change a motor pattern. And day 66, in my experience, is about when they get it. That's why my programs are 90 days, because um that that time period, I tell them you gotta have a club in your hand and you don't have to be here to hit balls. It's wonderful that you want to hit balls, but we can change your neuropathy in a slow way. We can use implement training. Um, and if you can't do it slow, you can't do it fast. And I'm trying to teach people not only technique but function at the same time. I want them to understand what is the cause and effect of that club face hitting the golf ball? What causes that club to move the way that it moves? I want them to know and empower them in case I get hit by a bus, they're not gonna call me from the parking lot and say, hey, the ball's, you know, starting to the right and going to the right. How do I stop that?
SPEAKER_03:Uh I love that, Brian. Like that is literally the epitome of a good coach is being able to explain why and get all of the other garbage out of their head so that they know exactly what they're supposed to do, right? I was just gonna say that why. Yeah, so so it's like, yeah, finding the why. But so kind of a small story on that note. I had um a golfer this weekend out in Arizona who plays for the Southern Oregon University golf team. He can shoot under par. Really good player, bombs the ball, takes lessons all the time. And I'm up there with him, and he's like, I'm doing pretty good. I'm just I'm missing a little bit right today. So I said, I knew him well enough to say I could I can I can talk to him about something in the golf swing while he's playing in a tournament. So I said, Set up to your wheel or your of your uh your cart. And he said, Um, okay, like over here. I'm like, no, no, no, set up to the wheel of your cart like it's the ball. So he sets up and I said, Now make a backswing and I want you to come through and I want you to just stop just pre-impact and check your club face. And he's like, Okay, you know, and he does it and it's open, of course, right? And it's to the right. And I'm like, okay, now yeah. So I'm like, okay, now I want you to do that again. You saw it was open, and now I want you to square it up. And you can watch the club, I don't care. So he he does it and he squares it up. I said, now what does that feel like to you? And he just literally just sat there and looked at me and I said, You don't need to answer, you just need to know. I said, Go play golf with that. And so I think ultimately I said after that, I was like, always work from the club face back. And I said the same thing you were just talking about. I said, I said, um, Ricky, what I'll just say it. Ricky, what happens if I'm not here, your coach isn't here, your family's not here to support you? Right now, you have all of us here. But when you go out on tour and you go to Q school, you have to know something that checks it. I said, I've done this drill a hundred times under pressure, and it never fails me because you work from impact backwards. Yeah, that's all diagnosed, right? 100%. And it you don't want to change your swing in a tournament, but if you're good enough and you're missing it by 20 yards, like figure something out and work on it, right?
SPEAKER_01:I had that conversation with my son last week when he was sitting repeating, you know, repeating the same mistake over and over and over again, hooking his shot. I said, Toby, stop, walk away, take a deep breath, go back, set it up, right, think through your mind. You've had so much coaching and training. Think through your mind what you know the tools to correct this. Think it through. Right. And you know what? I can share something fixed it on the first swing.
SPEAKER_00:You said it. They have to do it, right? They keep you're not wearing a diaper, right? When you play, you shouldn't be. And so we could challenge him sometimes. Yeah, we could. We could. I had a young man yesterday like that. He said he he's past his level one and he can't get through the player's ability test, and it's it's bad. He has really bad motor patterns, and I think we'll work with you. Uh he has a little bit of that, but like I want to change that to excitement. And I said, here's what I've evolved to in coaching with a lot of people, and it's something that I learned even with Hank, and it was something that I was kicking around in my own stuff. But really, when you're practicing, everything is more or less a body of three. There's a mistake one way or the other, then there has to be intention, the opposite way of that mistake, the same amount of curve, which shows intention, and then there's the Mona Lisa, right? And so then if you start to do exactly what you say, no, is work back from impact. Well, where'd the ball start? Where did I strike it on the face? How much turf did I take, and how much did occur? So Mike Bender's anatomy of a golf shop. And so I said, if you can play by those four things, like, look, you can't keep pulling, pull hooking it into the woods all day long. You know, eventually you've got to change your aim, you've got to change the start, you've got to change your alignment, you've got to do something different. And a lot of the things that happen, and and maybe you can share on this too, Mel, is that a lot of the stuff happens in stuff, right? It's like they can't aim the club face. I'll say, like, where what do you what are you aimed like? And they said, Well, I'm neutral. I go, neutral of what? And they're like, neutral to the target. And I go, you're not neutral to the target, you're left. And then your body aims left. So you align left. So what do you think your brain's gonna do to that club face to get it on the target? And they go, close, and I go, well, this is why you're not, you know, Einstein. It'll open, right? And for that to open, your forearms have to reverse and your lead hand has to has to cup, right? It has to extend. I said, wouldn't it be amazing if you aim the club face way to the right? So we aim it a hundred yards right.
SPEAKER_03:I have done this, it's amazing.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, let's get neutral to that. And they go, neutral meaning what? Perpendicular, right? A line like what just what you see on the internet, right? Except for they don't do it that way. They aim every like everybody that hits a shot on in the internet is straight, right? But but we don't know what their target is. They're just talking. They're just you know giving you a golf tip that doesn't even apply to you. So now I want you to swing and make your forearms rotate the other way. And you might have to move the club a little bit for them, but all of a sudden they hook it. And you're like, they can't they cannot sign up for a series fast enough after you do that with them. I brought a buddy into the golf.
SPEAKER_01:I brought I brought a buddy into the golf garage uh here last week. Noah got to meet him. He lined up for the first time. I had never played golf with him before, but I knew that he, you know, he he would typically shoot in the 80s. Um he lined up on his ball to where he was gonna hit it right and miss the screen, miss the entire backdrop. And I'm like, whoa, stop, stop, stop. And he's like, What? I said, dude, you're not gonna, you're not even gonna hit the screen, you're gonna break something in here. And he's like, Oh no, don't worry about it. That's just my golf swing. And I asked him the thought process behind it, and he's like, Well, you know, you know, when you hit the ball and you pull it really hard, it always goes further. I said, Yeah. I said, So I play for that pull. I intentionally pull it. So I line up so far right. And it was amazing, it worked for him. But as a coach, at a coach, do you look at that and cringe and you go, we got to change that, or do you roll with it?
SPEAKER_00:Well, what we would say is is, you know, like, well, how far should a draw go? And I've heard everything from 10 to 30 yards, and I'm like, how about three?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And they're like, three yards, and I'm like, yes, where did you learn 10? Well, my neighbor, you know, I play with him, he's a good golfer. I go, Oh, so so he shoots a hundred and you shoot a hundred and ten. Yes. I go, your neighbor's not a not a good golfer. I'm gonna tell you what, I said, their eyes and their ears are not trained to do what we do. Like, no, at this point in your career, and probably very early in your career, you don't need um foresight, you don't need track man, all these other things. You know, you you you have an inborn computer, right? Your eyes and your ears. And so we use I use technology to confirm. If they think I'm full of crap, then I go, oh, really? Okay, well, let's look at your like the that shot we said, you you know, you swung seven degrees out to in, right? Roughly.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So that's why Brian, that's so funny that you say that too, because so golf garage is an indoor technology facility, right? We have launch monitors in every bay, we have tourput, we have uh chipping and putting green, but I've trained my ear to know where it hits on the face. So when you're talking about Jacobs, I'm like I can do that in my sleep and grasp versus indoor with the audible. And then the funny thing is, is I love golf garage because it tells you how far you hit the ball. I love that I don't care about path and face and all that. I can I can teach that in two seconds. Now, like you said, if we need to show them actionable steps to say, oh my gosh, you improve by two degrees a day, that's insane. That is so much, right? To get them, you know. But really, it's the ball flight, like you said. If you can get somebody that's a slicter to hit a draw or straight if, you know, it's like, hey, how much curve is is opposite? All of a sudden their brains are like, whoa, I might try to do that.
SPEAKER_01:Here's the question that I know a lot of amateur golfers out there want to know, truly want to know. And it it's maybe it's a dumb question, but what is the difference? Where do you draw the line between a fade and a slice or a draw and a hook? Or a fade or a or a little cut and a and a and a fade. Where do you draw that line?
SPEAKER_00:Three three arts. And so I'll get nitpicky with them just because you have to be hard on them, because if you give them too big of a dispersion, they'll take more, they'll take more. And so we we play a game, one of the foundational games that that we play, and I do a lot of games. Um, and and I'm with you, Noah, too. I did a post today is perception reality in golf, and and I said, There's really only four things you want to look at, right? Raw carrying total. Total doesn't really matter, but it does. Um, you know, uh how much curve he had on the golf ball, and then proximity to the target, right?
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely. Like proximity to the hole is so nobody talks about that.
SPEAKER_00:Nobody talks about it. And I would say to someone, like, okay, you're hitting 150 yard shot, right? Yeah, why is your range 70 yards wide? And they're looking at me like, what do you mean? I go, well, from on a tour, on the tour, do you know how far, how close the tour player hits it from 150 yards? And they go, no, I go 28 feet. Yeah. I said, Do you know how close they hit it from 100 yards in the rough? They're like, no, 28 feet. It's the same. But which one do you think the tour player would rather have? And they go, I don't know. They probably want it in the fairway. I go, no, they don't give a crap about the fairway. They want to hit it far. But here's the deal: you're practicing 150, right? Now, are you practicing total or carry? And they're like, I don't know. You're practicing total. Okay, so let's look at the total number. I'm gonna shrink your range down to 31 feet because you're a 20 handicap. And I go, Do you know what happens when you hit it 30 inside of 31 feet? No, you don't three put as much. Really? And they're like, Yes, that's how it all connects, and that's how you use the technology, you know, and they and they're just looking at me like, oh my god, really? Like this is how you do it. We just thought you come in and you just hit balls. And I go, Well, the philosophy is if you hit balls, you're gonna get better. But if you stink already, you're not gonna get better. You already suck, right? So you have to make changes, and that those changes is neuropathy, you know, it's it's movement, right? It's tilts and circles and all these different things that we need to monitor for you and make it simple, and you're not gonna get that in a$50 appointment.
SPEAKER_01:Practicing bad doesn't make you better.
SPEAKER_00:No, it makes you bad. You're just bad.
SPEAKER_01:You're you're creating muscle memory for more bad golf.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And so when and no, I'm sure you look at it too, and your wife is involved in this as well. You're looking at the human body saying, What pathology does this person have? Why can't they get their left hand to go into flexion or their lean hand? Like, what is going on with their elbows? Like, why don't they have any lateral movement in their golf swing? They will sit at a desk all day. They're not an athlete. Why do they roll the club inside? I mean, I ask myself these questions all the time. How did they evolve to that golf swing? Like, how did they do it? And then you ask, have you ever had have you ever had lessons? And they're like, Well, no. And I go, Well, do you play with your friends? And they're like, Yes. I go, then you've had lessons. I go, and they're bad. I said, Have you ever had any formal lessons? And they might say, Yeah, I went to this guy. And so why did you stop going to him? Well, I got worse. Well, what did he tell you? He said, You're gonna get worse before you get better. I go, that is a load of manure. I said, That's a cop out. That's a cop out. That guy took your money, let's go get it back. You know, how many appointments did you take? 20. I go, let's go get them. And he's a club pro. I said, Your club pro, God bless him or her, right? They mostly are accountants and and shirt folders, they're not teachers, right? In my opinion. I've never heard that before, Noah.
SPEAKER_03:Hmm, weird. Yeah. Well, you know what, you know what's funny about it too is you know, I had I I always loved the ladies' lessons, right? So uh you give give lessons to ladies, and then all of a sudden you're realizing, you know, three lessons in, something changed, and you're just like, Yeah, what what's going on? Oh, uh, I played golf with my husband last week, and you're like, great. And then they tell you that they told him something, and you're like, okay, here's what you need to tell your husband. It's gonna cost him 10 times more money if he keeps trying to teach you than it is if he doesn't, and then I guarantee you he will leave you alone and we can work together. But if he keeps doing this, I will not work with you anymore. It's like how many times do you have to fire a student before they finally listen?
SPEAKER_00:So one of my best programs ever that I run is called couples therapy. And it's the husbands and the wives or the partners coming together, and there's always a dominant golfer and alpha who thinks they know everything, and then there's the timid one, you know, who doesn't. And I and I go first to the alphas and say, like, what do you do? Well, I'm a hedge funder, I'm a doctor, I'm this, I'm that. I go, you know, like one guy was a gastro guy, you know, very well known in our area. He said, dude, you can take a colon out with your eyes closed, but you can't teach your wife how to play golf. I said, that's grounds for divorce, number one. And I said, Does she ever cry when you play? He goes, Yeah, all the time. I go, those aren't tears of joy. She's frustrated. All she wants to do is be with you. I said, Do you know what your wife's goal is for us to play golf? And she goes, No, right, because you never asked. All she wants to do is hit it far enough with her driver so that she can get in the cart and drive to it and just be with you. She doesn't care about any of the other stuff. I said, So, ladies, what you need to do is tell your husbands to zip it. You're working with someone, and guys, you need to go three things. Did you have fun? I love you, honey. And what do you need to work on with your pro?
SPEAKER_03:Yes. You know, love that.
SPEAKER_00:And don't cheat, don't cheat on me with the club.
SPEAKER_03:I think we I think we figured out a new shirt. We just got a cool make a cool visual to go with it. I like the three things though. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just like, and the ladies and the guys are sitting there and they laugh. Like it's they laugh, and I go, I'm crying on the inside. I go, I cannot believe I have 12 couples here at you know$4.99 for the half day, you know, per couple, and I'm making, you know, a ton of money to reverse all this stuff that you guys shouldn't do. You're you're out of your lane. Well, I can help her, but not myself. You obviously can't because she can't play for crap. You're making a lot of money without even teaching golf.
SPEAKER_03:Brian, here's a question for you. Like, like this is awesome stuff, right?
SPEAKER_02:So yeah.
SPEAKER_03:What what do you see? Because, dude, you're like this up and coming guy. You always have five things going. Um, I love that about you. I could literally just talk to you every day. Um what do you see that you're looking forward to in 2026 with golf instruction that you're gonna come up here and and like you're wanting to promote? What do you see?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think I I just said an article with Brendan uh or Brendan Elliott, and he asked kind of like what's your one thing? And I said, for me, it's always been on course. Just being on the course more with the people, teaching them really how to play. Um, when you have access at a private club, you have access to these beautiful. We had three golf courses. There was never a, you know, you could always go to one of them. And I said, this past year I was at one and I was still very committed. It's part of my DNA. I, you know, learned on the playing field just like you did. There's a time for practice, block practice, random variable. I'm a big games guy. Um, but it's very important for me to progress them to the golf course always, and take them also to multiple areas. I'm getting a lot of new students now, now that I'm back. I still have some of my regulars, but some of them were like, hey, I waited a year. I was gonna come to you, and then you left, and now now you're back, and we hear you're the best. And I go, I don't like to brag. I mean, yeah, maybe, maybe the top two or three, right? But there's only three I am the best.
SPEAKER_03:I am the best.
SPEAKER_00:I always tell them I'm not the best. I'm the most effective. There you go. Um, and so, and so uh really for 2026, I'm just gonna continue on doing what I'm doing. Um I'm trying to, I'm at a really nice place. They treat me really, really well. It's a daily fees, but it's not quite my customer base. So I have to find a facility that's just a little bit bigger, um, has bigger, a bigger golf course to train people on to. Um and then uh I've really kind of uh didn't do a lot of groups last year. I did a practice club, which I really, really liked. It was very well attended. Um and so I'll do that. And then also I'm doing a lot more with implement training. Um, I do something called golf and fitness fusion. We don't ever hit golf balls in the whole program. It's two times a week, and we train with some Mach 3 stuff, um, some homemade stuff that I have, Dr. Kwan's rope. Um, and we try to get their motor patterns to be good, increase them, uh the speed. So we driver test, uh ball speed test at the beginning, and then we driver test and ball speed test at the end.
SPEAKER_03:And where are you seeing the gains on those?
SPEAKER_00:Um I had a lady last year that was uh 81, she went 11 miles per hour faster, and her ball speed up went went up uh uh almost 10 miles per hour.
SPEAKER_03:And it's amazing, just the motion, right? Just like getting some tempo, some motion, and and it's just like all of a sudden it goes up. I had somebody have 32 miles an hour ball speed change in two weeks. It's like insane when you do stuff like that. We use like the use of drugs.
SPEAKER_00:When you get their patterns, yeah, when you get their patterns good, and people will say, Well, why don't we hit balls? And I go, Well, how's it going when you hit them?
SPEAKER_03:Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:You know, and do you do you feel different? Um, so we use Quan's rote, I use a P the five-foot PVC pipe for ribcrackers so they get moving, right? I use a jet stick and a loop bomber, the velociraptor, uh, that long rope that you gotta make sure your hands move properly or the rope won't move. Um, and then we use a core ball with just uh a 10-pound core ball or a five-pound core ball, and you just get two hands on, you go to your backswing, swing through high arms, and then step through. Um, but every group's a little bit different, but they all have a few commonalities. You know, they mostly move the path out to in. And so the club kind of dives at their feet. And so if we can get them to get their motor pattern going the right way, they get faster. You know, we we talk about even like if you were gonna punch someone, God forbid, but if you had to, would you want to punch somebody that you're close to, or would you rather be able to snap your hand a little bit? You know, and they're like snap your hand and your arm, right? Well, your trail arm is has two levers, your wrist and your fore and your elbow. And whenever you move it to the left, you can't you can't get them to unload properly or be a piston. So sometimes we do single arm swings with the ropes. Uh and it's interesting to watch them when they get it. And we do that two days a week, right, at lunchtime. So it's 12 to 12 to 130. That's awesome. Yeah, and then we move them right through the stations. Um, they're like, is this all we're gonna do? I said, Yes, and you're gonna thank me in about two weeks. You know, and so they love it. I mean, typically I sell those out, so I got one January. What do you mean in February?
SPEAKER_03:What do you charge for that?
SPEAKER_00:Uh that one's two two twenty-five. For how many seconds? And then I can take uh there's two a week. So, and and I'll take own I'll only take twelve people. I won't take any less or any.
SPEAKER_03:And is is that for a month or how long?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's a month. Yeah, four-week program. Okay, so when they're done with that, yeah, then I do a maintenance program after that with them just once a week. And then the other two days, they can use the tools. So I I try to flip them to three days a week, one with me and two on their own using the tools. And so it's so you can keep it going, right? Because speed training is kind of like if you don't do it, you know, you if you don't lose it, you lose it.
SPEAKER_01:You lose it, yep, for sure.
SPEAKER_00:Brian, you've got to be some residual though.
SPEAKER_01:You've worked with Hank Haney a bit, and and before we wrap this up, I got a couple of questions for you. Sure. Hank Haney has endorsed a lot of training aids. What's your favorite one? Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Uh my favorite one of his was not a training aid, truthfully. Um, it was that he moved people, honestly. Um he was the only person uh that I went to see that uh was kinesthetic. They moved the golf club while I was there. Uh the other teachers might have done it, but when I was there, that was the foundation of his teaching.
SPEAKER_03:So that is insane to me that people don't pay attention to how people learn when you're teaching others.
SPEAKER_00:Well, everybody's kinesthetic, right?
SPEAKER_03:Um kinesthetic school, all of it. Yeah, I mean, but you you got to use them at different times for sure.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and you have to and you have to read the room, right, and find out what their most dominant one was. So when when I was teaching public high school, you'd have 33 kids in the room. Five of them didn't speak English because they were from you know a foreign country, and then two or three kids were just out of prison. I I taught in the inner city, you know, they were hostile, and then you had the superstars, and then you had the kids in the middle, and so you had to figure out their learning style. Where do you begin? Some kids like independent. What's that? Where do you begin with? You just walk in. Well, you just walk in. I don't know. God gave me some innate quality. You just walk in and you just say, Okay, here's one thing everybody understands, though, service and love and nurturing, right? They I just want to be uh loved, basically. It's the same as the student uh that you have for golf. You know, I tell my students all the time, I love you, I think you're great, I think you're awesome. But like, why are you so positive? I said, Okay, what do you want me to be? Negative? Okay, you suck, you're terrible, you're an asshole. Right? How's that? How's that gonna go over? Right, and so I think when you start dealing with people positively, like I had like I was saying, this young man that I have, he's he told me his life sucks because he couldn't get a position of the golf club. And I said, Well, let's remember too, you have really bad motor patterns, right? And so, like, settle down, Francis. You know, like everything's gonna be okay. Your life doesn't suck because you're not good at golf. Nobody dies from golf. I said, but you're killing yourself by thinking this is gonna happen today and that you're gonna be on tour tomorrow. I said, I watched some of the most elite athletes. I teach a lot of NFL players that struggle just like you do. They made millions of dollars in what they did, and they can't get their hand right. So what chance do we really have, right? We have to do things slowly, and we have to be aware of what's going on, you know, all the time.
SPEAKER_01:It reminds me of John's gotta un It reminds me of a buddy of mine who played in the NFL who I mean, obviously he was a specimen when it comes to his athletic ability, but yeah, out of his family, he was the only he was the least athletic of three boys and the only one who made it to the NFL. And I said, I said, Why did you make it to the NFL? And he said, Because I'm coachable.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, that's what happens. I taught a guy for the from the Bills, he was a two-time pro bowler. When he came to me, he said, Come on, we got to take a walk. I take him down to the private range. He says, How long do you think it's gonna take? And I said, To get back up that hill? And I go, same distance, same time that it took to get down, I guess. I go, I don't know, I've never timed it before. He goes, No, how long will it take for me to play on the PGA tour? And I'm like, I think we better get in the cart and start again. You know, I go, you're never gonna play on the PGA tour. And he goes, What do you mean? I'm a superior athlete. And I said, I understand that, but you spent 30 years of your life being a football player, and so you're gonna be a good player. You'll probably be a 10 or you know, he's he's about an eight handicap. You know, he's never gotten any lower. I said, But you know, you you have a lot of pathology. You've had 32 surgeries, you know. I mean, you're you're a walking disability, you know, like you just you can't move, but you can for football because you're straightforward, a little bit of bend and tilt. I said, But give me that guy over there, that quarterback. That's the guy I want to teach. Well, an age. Yeah, but it's hard for them because they're so elite, they think they're just gonna transition to another career. And so now when I meet NFL players, I just say, hey, look, you're the most elite. And it depends on who they are, right? Like I've had defensive linemen, offensive linemen, receivers, quarterbacks, uh, cornerbacks, um, you know, and they're all very unique, very different how they think, and how and they're all coachable, a hundred percent coachable. Like they want to know and they're they fall in love with it, you know. But it's just like, look, here's the reality of the situation. You had your career, you made all your money, do a podcast, you know, or drive a tractor, you know, or something. Do something that's you know not gonna, you know, drive you crazy.
SPEAKER_01:Last question for you before we wrap this up. Let's let let's talk about you, your desires, your golf career. Where's what's your favorite golf course you've ever played of all time?
SPEAKER_00:Oh my gosh. My favorite golf course that I've ever played. Oak Hill's pretty special, but um, I'm gonna say outside of Rochester and more about the land of Donald Rost and Robert Trent Jones, I would say probably Baltasraal lower.
SPEAKER_01:Ooh, nice. Okay. Anywhere on your bucket list that you haven't played yet?
SPEAKER_00:Uh Riviera. I was supposed to play in September and then I couldn't, I couldn't swing it. So try again. Yeah, Riviera, I'd like to play.
SPEAKER_03:One more question. When are you coming out to golf garage to hang out and be a guest speaker? Go to the West Coast.
SPEAKER_00:Enjoy us on the podcast in person. Yeah, the winter's always good. Um I'm uh you know free agent for the winter. I do a little work for Cirrus aircraft, so maybe I can get a uh private flight out there and and wrap something, a motivational day around that.
SPEAKER_03:Why don't you bring some of the uh execs out and let's do like a big golf school, just you and I. We'll close the place down.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that'd be fun. And your area, the country, there's a really, really good girl that sells in your area. That's she's amazing. Um sells juxtain twins, right? So you never know. I could show up on your doorstep. Just gotta feed me. That's all.
SPEAKER_03:You're always welcome, buddy. I gotta I got a room for you and everything. We'll feed you. You just tell me what you like. Thank you. It's game on. Yeah. Brian, man, we we loved having you on the show. Thank you so much for your time. Three hours ahead. It's about bedtime for you, and uh can't wait to catch up with you soon. Thanks, Brian.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, thanks so much, guys. I really appreciate it, and uh, you're always welcome here in Rochester.
SPEAKER_01:Until next week, take care.
