Masters of Technology Happy Hour
Conversations with masters of technology, those who produce it or those who use it.
Masters of Technology Happy Hour
S1 Ep 6: Aaron Moncur, World's Busiest Engineer
Meet Aaron, a remarkable engineering polymath whose journey from Hawaiian surfer to Arizona-based entrepreneur reveals the power of pursuing diverse passions with intention. Growing up on Oahu's beaches, Aaron's love for riding the waves at the famous Bonsai Pipeline would later inspire his company's name and mission to become "the pinnacle of engineering."
What truly sets Aaron apart isn't just his impressive credentials—mechanical engineering degree from BYU, biomedical engineering master's from ASU, and ownership of Pipeline Design and Engineering. It's his extraordinary commitment to using his skills to create positive change. Following a frightening school threat incident at his son's high school, Aaron established a CAD Club that uses engineering as a vehicle to show students what healthy adult behavior looks like while teaching valuable skills. Five terms later, several graduates have gone on to pursue engineering degrees in college with Aaron's recommendation letters supporting their applications.
The conversation reveals a man who maintains remarkable balance amidst multiple commitments. Despite running a business, hosting a long-running engineering podcast, organizing the Product Development Expo, and maintaining a consistent Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu practice (even after suffering a torn ACL), Aaron prioritizes family dinner each night and helping get his children off to school in the mornings. His wife Kayla, described as "amazing and very capable," has been instrumental in supporting his diverse pursuits.
Perhaps most inspiring is Aaron's personal philosophy: "Joy is really at the end of every why." When asked about his motivations, he explains that helping others has always brought him fulfillment. This guiding principle illuminates everything from his business approach to his community initiatives. Whether discussing Arizona's new surf lagoon, his educational journey, or the ten life tenets he teaches his CAD Club students, Aaron demonstrates how engineering expertise can become a platform for mentorship, community building, and personal growth.
Join us for this fascinating conversation about finding purpose through technical excellence and using professional skills to shape the next generation. Want to learn more about Aaron's innovative approaches to engineering and education? Follow his work with Pipeline Design and Engineering and consider how you might apply similar principles in your own field.
Hello everyone and welcome to the Masters of Technology happy hour, where once a week, I have a drink with someone I meet in the course of business, but someone I'd like to get to know better as a person. And, Aaron, I don't think you'd even have a drink, do you?
Aaron:I've got my water bottle right here, all right.
Roopinder:These are people I just like and I want to know what makes them tick. In Aaron's case, I got to say I'm particularly fascinated. He's an engineer like me, but he does so many things better than me and he does so many an things., We only have a half hour so I'm not going to get to all the things. Aaron is a mechanical engineer with a with master's in biomedical engineering. He is owner of Pipeline Design and Engineering. I want to talk more about that what you do and how you got that name Design firm in Tempe, arizona, which is where he's sitting right now. He has a podcast, which is where I initially saw when I first said I got to meet this guy. He's been doing podcasts for over five years now. For five years, I don't know a hundred, more than a hundred of interviewing people engineers like himself and others, and celebrities even some celebrities
Aaron:I'm working on Mark Rober, but he hasn't responded yet, although I did interview James Hobson, The Hacksmith, who not everyone knows, but he's a YouTube sensation, like 12 million followers on YouTube, that's him.
Roopinder:He's worth probably a thousand engineers in terms of visibility, I think, unfortunately. And also you have a website called The Wave and you do a CAD Club, which I think I really got to talk about because you expose kids all the way up to 18, right that's right Middle school and high school to engineering, CAD and 3D printing.
Roopinder:Have I left anything big out? You're also an athlete and you're a husband and father, and I want to get to more of that too, and I just want to talk about boring old work, but yeah.
Aaron:The only other thing is our PDX event, which is coming into its own, the Product Development Expo here in Phoenix this October.
Roopinder:That's right, and that's probably got you pulling your hair out at the moment.
Aaron:I see a lot of activity on that it's a lot of work, yeah, but it will be worth it.
Roopinder:Yeah, that's getting bigger than ever. I think you had it. What two years ago you said?
Aaron:Last year we did a pilot.
Roopinder:Okay, and now this is going to be bigger and better. Right, that's right, that's right. What'd you rent out for that?
Aaron:W e rented the Mesa Convention Center. Mesa's a city just outside of Phoenix.
Roopinder:What are you projecting as far as attendance?
Aaron:We're expecting around 500 engineers, and these are engineers who develop physical products.
Roopinder:All right, any kind of product, not just like you special, your firm specialized in medical device, setup correct or?
Aaron:We have a soft focus there. Yeah, but anything from machine design through consumer product, consumer electronics, medical device design, any physical product really.
Roopinder:So all that going on, do you have any time for family at all? Are they like super mad at you because, oh, I didn't know you were married. I thought you were. That's not you, I hope. I hope you're happily married and you do spend some time with it I am happily married.
Aaron:I have a very supportive wife, Kayla, and she's amazing and she really does allow me to do these things that I'm doing. She's very capable in her own right and has thus far supported my craziness and all these different things that I do. I work from home a couple of days a week. I try to be home by 6 PM every day and we dinner together as a family so we see the kids and I help get them off to school in the morning. So I'm around a little bit.
Roopinder:Yeah, okay, don't ignore your family, right? It sounds like you also do some martial arts, if I remember right.
Aaron:That's right. Yeah, I've been doing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu for almost seven years now. I'm a one stripe purple belt, which is right in the middle of the belt hierarchy. Not that the belt color matters that much. It's really just about showing up and being part of the community. I just love that so much. It is one of the best things I have ever done. I've learned a lot from it. I've met some amazing people there and it's like my second family.
Roopinder:Really, your group stays together while you spar. Yes, okay, all right, so you remain free of injury. You look okay there.
Aaron:It's funny you say that In December I tore my ACL at Jiu-Jitsu and I actually just had surgery April 8th, about six weeks ago. Recovery is going remarkably well though. I got rid of my crutches a few weeks ago and I've been walking around normally, hitting the PT hard, even starting to do some squats and load bearing exercises. So I'm really happy with how that's going so far. But I have had that one non-trivial injury. Yes.
Roopinder:Oh no. Did that like you got hit in the knee?
Aaron:Jiu-Jitsu is mostly a ground martial art, and so I was on my back and my opponent was on top of me and I hooked my foot around his leg trying to sweep him over, so I would be on top and he'd be on bottom and right. When I hooked my foot around his leg, he pulled his leg out really quickly and it bent my leg, rotated it laterally in a position that the anatomy is not intended to go. There was a loud pop and a pretty intense pain and I thought, oh no, I've done it. Now it's finally happened. I knew it would happen eventually. There it is.
Roopinder:That was a degree of freedom that was not right that sounds very painful. Are you going to go back to it?
Aaron:Oh yes, I can't. I cannot wait to get back. That's really what's motivating me to hit the PT hard, and in fact I went back for the first time, not to do any degree of intensity training at all, but just to get back on the mat and move my body a little bit. And a couple of my buddies there let me choke them for a few minutes try some new moves I found on YouTube. So it's great.
Roopinder:I had done dangerous things. They wouldn't be dangerous to normal people, but to me they were. Road biking.
Roopinder:Biking. You would think it's very serene, and it can be quite peaceful and serene, but I'm off this mindset that if anything worth doing is worth overdoing, it started out riding from office to home, which is only a distance of three miles, and once that got to be boring I decided I would take long way around. It ended up with many falls, many falls because I took my love of skiing to my love of biking, which means go as fast as you possibly can down hill, cutting the curves, and you probably relate to that. You're surfing. I want to talk about your surfing.
Aaron:Yeah, if. I remember correctly, you did a cross-country bike trip, didn't you? I did a cross-country. That didn't you? I did a cross country. That's amazing. Not many people can claim that, oh you'd be surprised.
Roopinder:I don't know. There's thousands of us. This is not like you only think that because you haven't done it. But once you get somewhere you think, oh my god, there's all these people that have done it, people up here already this is you're being humble.
Aaron:It's still very small percentage of the population it might be be.
Roopinder:You know why that is. Nobody can be that bored for that long.
Aaron:You said it was peaceful and serene right.
Roopinder:It's so peaceful and serene. One of the guys fell asleep on his bike. Oh no, you're kidding. Fell asleep, no, actually fell asleep. Wow, this was in Kansas which has no topography and the only feature is miles and miles of cornfields. Wow. So he fell asleep and drove out. This was not me, I swear, this was not one of my accidents. That trip had no falls for me. It was amazing. I didn't fall once, but that guy veered off his bike and into the cornfield and cornfields can be surprisingly brutal.
Roopinder:They can rip you up. They're sharp. Not as bad as cane sugar cane, which I hear can really be bad, that's why you don't want to.
Aaron:It's better cornfields than oncoming traffic. At least that's true. That's true.
Roopinder:So I've never run into a car, but I've had lots of falls. My wife was so indulgent, indulging of me, that she just she never once said don't get back on the bike. I had to realize that lesson myself, but she never did. Wives are wonderful. You had your wife on the show.
Aaron:I did. Yes. Yeah, it was a delightful episode between the two of us. What it's Like being Married to an Engineer, I think, was the title of that episode.
Roopinder:Did you have to edit a lot of stuff out.
Aaron:No, actually it was like one cut. I don't know that we edited anything out.
Roopinder:No kidding. Wow, you didn't have to tranquilize her, or?
Aaron:anything. She was very kind, didn't bring up many of my foibles and faults and was just a wonderful guest. Like she is a wonderful partner and spouse.
Roopinder:Wow, thinking of doing that myself, but I'm afraid of the results. I may have to do a fair amount of editing.
Aaron:Maybe a thorough pre-show evaluation.
Roopinder:So now tell me about the kids. Now you have this CAD club. What made you think about? You wanted to be a teacher, you're a teacher.
Aaron:Right, I've really always enjoyed helping people. In fact, I remember in college thinking to myself I really just want to spend my life helping people because I find so much fulfillment and joy in it. To me, joy is really at the end of every why. Every time you ask, why am I doing this, why am I doing that? You go enough layers deep and for me, anyway, it always ends in joy. I'm doing these things because I want to experience joy, and helping people has always brought me joy.
Aaron:There is a very specific story about how CAD Club started. My wife she works at the front office of our local high school and my son goes to this high school. Now two of my sons go to this high school, but at the time it was just one. And they received a call in the front office from a concerned parent, a father, who said that hey, my son just left the house, he's heading towards the school and I'm pretty sure he has a gun and has intent to harm one of the students there. No, yeah, this was a previous student of the school who I think had been expelled. So the school went on lockdown immediately. They called the police. Within minutes. There were heavily armed law enforcement personnel around the perimeter of the school campus. There were police helicopters flying overhead, all the classrooms were locked down, not a drill right Every parent's nightmare. Probably every student's nightmare as well. They ended up catching this guy and sure enough he had a gun with him. So luckily law enforcement caught him before he was able to do any damage at the school.
Aaron:And I remember hearing about this from my wife, who was freaked out right, having gone through this experience and thinking, wow, my wife was there, my son was there. Luckily, the police caught him in time. Everything was all right, but that could have gone really poorly, was all right, but that could have gone really poorly. And thinking to myself, what is it that makes an individual so angry that he's willing to harm his fellow students or other people like this? And I thought I don't know the answer to that. I don't know what makes a person that angry, but surely there's something that we can do about this, that I could do about this, and I thought I don't have a ton of resources, but we have this engineering company and I know there are kids out there who are interested in engineering. What if we started a CAD club and we opened up our doors at pipeline and once a week, allowed middle school kids and high school kids to come in and we'll teach them about engineering and how to use CAD, and the idea was always that we'd use CAD and engineering as a vehicle.
Aaron:But really the purpose for doing CAD Club was not necessarily to teach CAD and engineering. It was to show these kids what healthy adult behavior looks like, in the hopes that they have experiences at CAD Club that prevent or navigate them away from a bad situation that perhaps they would have been in otherwise. And it's been a super rewarding experience. I think we just finished our fifth term with the CAD club students and we have returned students every term so they're enjoying it, they're liking it. Every class we talk about one of our CAD club tenants. There are 10 of them and there are things like early is on time, take what's on the inside, put it on the outside and talk about it. Persistence beats brilliance just life lessons that, frankly, adults as well, but especially kids, need to learn, and they don't necessarily learn in school, in class. And so that's CAD Club how it came to be and what we're trying to do Wow, that is amazing.
Roopinder:You also have them put their phones down right or put their phones away.
Aaron:We do have a rule that, yes, no phones allowed during CAD Club. Yeah, pay attention to the lesson and focus on the CAD.
Roopinder:Do they listen or do you have to use it?
Aaron:We get the bamboo cane out every now and then, yeah, Wrap the knuckles here and there.
Roopinder:No, they're pretty good for the most part yeah, Do you have to jump through any hoops to have a class of kids? Is there a school? Does the school get involved with the actual? It's not accreditation but some kind of a license or anything like that, or can anybody just start one of these?
Aaron:I might get myself in trouble here, but no, we haven't jumped through any hoops. We don't have any kind of formal accreditation or anything like that. It's just a volunteer program that we started here. We are partnered with ASU Prep, which is a preparatory academy I think they're eighth grade through 12th grade, but maybe even earlier and they've been a wonderful partner in helping us recruit students and generate visibility to the program.
Roopinder:I'm asking in case anybody listening would want to do something similar, because it's such a great idea, such a good way to not just introduce them, like you said, to what you do as an engineer, but also, just like, valuable skills that they may not have at home, that they may not be exposed to yet. It may get them ready. Any of them have graduated from this, so to speak, and helped them find a job.
Aaron:Several have. Any of them have graduated from this, so to speak, and helped them find a job. Several have. They're not to the job market yet, but they have gone on to college and doing engineering degrees in college and I've written several letters of recommendation helping them get in different engineering departments within universities.
Roopinder:No kidding, which they might not have done otherwise.
Aaron:Maybe it's hard to say for sure, but yeah, that's possible.
Roopinder:Have you had any similar success with your own children, my kids? I'm asking because my kids two of them did not want to go through my and it was probably because I was not a good example. I know I wasn't a good example. I brought my son here and he sat in the corner chair and watched me work and I was like look at this CAD. I was like I wasn't saying it, but I was thinking look at me on CAD, aren't I something? Look at these models I can make. I'm so cool. Back that time, 3D was like the bee's knees. This was really going to dazzle my son and my son, who I think was not an impressionable age of any at all he was in his teens. He'd lasted about 15 minutes in that chair before he said hey, Dad, yeah, I think this is what I want to do the rest of my life: typing.
Roopinder:That's hilarious. I'm going to get in trouble for this, because my son is actually editing the sound file for this.
Aaron:That's what I want to do for the rest of my life. Yeah, dad, I didn't want to convince him.
Roopinder:Are you any more convincing than that? I hope so.
Aaron:I don't know how much it has to do with me, but both of my boys are interested in engineering. The first one reluctantly I think it was more out of support for me agreed to be part of the first cohort of CAD Club and that was enough for him at least being around dad for CAD Club. He's done some engineering and woodworking things at school and he's planning on doing engineering in college. My other son he actually went through four of the five CAD club terms and ended up taking a CAD class at school just this past year. He was better than the teacher was at CAD, which is a little embarrassing, but kudos to him for picking it up so well.
Roopinder:Yeah, what are you using? Onshape, onshape, right. Yeah, you use SOLIDWORKS in the business for the schools and that's really helpful because the kids can get it on their computer so easily and you can use any old laptop they have.
Aaron:They don't have to install, it's just. I think it's the future of CAD.
Roopinder:Yeah, do you think you'd ever change the main business to that?
Aaron:We've talked about it change the main business to that. We've talked about it. The challenge for us is that we are beholden to our customers oftentimes as far as what CAD software they want us to use, and they're all using SolidWorks. It's so ubiquitous in the industry right now. So I think for the foreseeable future we'll have to continue using SolidWorks. And don't get me wrong, we like SolidWorks, it's a great program and we've done a lot of amazing work with it. So there't get me wrong, we like SolidWorks, it's a great program and we've done a lot of amazing work with it. So there's no problem really. But Onshape, it's just. It's such a more modern application with some bells and whistles that SolidWorks inherently can't match due to it not being a cloud native application.
Roopinder:Yeah, oh, I've got to say kudos to you. You had John Hirschtick on your show and he's the founder of SolidWorks, founder of Onshape. So you know the man who wrote that. Did you get him to? I don't know. Sign your screen or something.
Aaron:No, he didn't sign my screen, unfortunately. Just this amazing story of how he funded the beginning of SolidWorks. Do you know this story? I do.
Roopinder:Yeah, he's a legend, but go ahead.
Aaron:So, for those who don't know about this, there was a movie made not specifically about him, but loosely tied to his antics and his friends' antics. There were MIT students all a bunch of really bright individuals and they would go to Vegas and count cards and they were good enough at it that they made a bunch of money doing that and that was the seed funding for SolidWorks how John Hirshtick started the business.
Roopinder:Yeah, that's. I know he's not just an amazing character, he's got a great origin story. Now you, Aaron, you went, you're in Arizona. Now, I think, did you go to school in Arizona or you went to school in Utah?
Aaron:I went to BYU in Utah for my undergrad doing a mechanical engineering degree and then I did a master's in bioengineering at ASU here in Arizona.
Roopinder:Okay, Now, in between that or before that, both of those is that where you were an avid surfer in Hawaii. That's how you got, because I want to get to where you got the name (Pipeline Design). So tell me about your journey to Pipeline Design and Engineering.
Aaron:I was born and raised in Hawaii. If you look at me now, you'd never know it because I'm white, as white can be, but I was born and raised there. In fact, this is funny, I was just telling this to someone the other day. Growing up, I spent a lot of time outside, whether it was just playing outside as a kid or surfing, which I did a lot of in high school, and so I was never like brown, but I was tan, certainly, and I had no idea how white I actually was until I left Hawaii and got out of the sun and now I just I have a moon tan. That's about it. But yeah, I was born and raised in Hawaii.
Aaron:I spent my childhood and upbringing there and it was just the most amazing place to grow up. Beautiful weather, amazing people, incredible food. And in high school is when I developed my love for surfing boarding, actually, but we all just refer to it as surfing for ease of use. But I spent years surfing there, and one of the most famous surfing beaches in the world is on the North Shore of Oahu. Oahu is where I grew up and it's called Bonsai Pipeline and it's just the pinnacle of surfing. And when I started my company. I thought to myself I would like my company to be the pinnacle of engineering, so I called it Pipeline. And we get calls, not frequently but maybe once or twice a year, from people saying, Oh, I need help with oil refinery schematics, or making pipelines.
Aaron:And we're like have you actually looked at our website, man? But that's how the name of the company came to be.
Roopinder:I know you spend a lot of time, even on your website, dispelling that notion that they're not about pipelines.
Aaron:Yeah, we have some funny videos on the website. Here at Pipelines, there's no new pipelines.
Roopinder:Is there any surf? There's no surfing at all to be had where you are, do you?
Aaron:Actually they just opened a surf lagoon here in Mesa. It's called Revel Surf. I haven't been there yet because the weather's been too cold for me, but now that the weather's starting to warm up I'm definitely going to go. It's Mad Made Surf Park and I've watched a lot of videos of it. Going to go. It's Mad Made Surf Park and I've watched a lot of videos of it. It's pretty cool. They're not the biggest waves, but pretty fun for Arizona anyway.
Roopinder:You must have looked at the engineering of that thing. How does it manage to generate waves and how high do the waves actually get? A couple of feet.
Aaron:There are a few different technologies for doing this. Now one I think the best one is from a place called Surf Lakes. They're out of Australia, I think, and they have an amazing technology that generates the best waves that I've ever seen and the biggest. They have a giant plunger that a huge, massive thing is probably I don't know 20 or 30 feet in diameter, just the steel drum, and it moves up and down in the center of a pond or a lake and it generates waves that move radially outwards. And then they have, the bottom of the lagoon is contoured in such a way as to create very specific wave forms and shapes and different breaks. So that's surf lakes, but they're often Australia.
Aaron:The one here works using a series they're probably 10 or 15 of these large industrial hydraulic rams and they have just a large flat face at the end and they basically all actuate at the same time and just push a wall of water out into the lagoon. In fact they can vary. They don't all have to actuate at the same time and they do change it a little bit depending on the exact type of wave that they're trying to generate. The ones here at Revel Surf, I think, they only get up to maybe three or four feet high, not very big.
Roopinder:What kind of distance does a wave propagate?
Aaron:It's pretty short. You'd probably spend maybe five to 10 seconds on the wave.
Roopinder:Five, 10 seconds. And then what Does it ram you against it? You don't get a nice beach at the end, do you? I think they do actually have a beach. Oh, they do.
Aaron:Yeah, there's sand like a sandy beach that they created. It's a pretty cool construction that they put together, no kidding.
Roopinder:It sounds like an immense water park for adults. Yeah, it's big, yep, it sounds like an immense water park for adults. Yeah, it's big, yep. So there's one difference we're a lot alike, but there's some differences here. Because I've told people on my hobby cycling my version of that would be an e-bike. Right? Yeah, I would like. Okay, I can't get to what I want to do anymore. I'm not allowed or I can't physically be able to. I'm going to get an e-bike, but I've told too many people to shoot me if they see me on an e-bike, so it would be more dangerous for me to have an e-bike. But you seem to have no qualms about taking a technology generated solution to your no, I think it's great.
Aaron:It's becoming more and more prevalent, actually, these manmade surf parks, so I can't wait to see even more of them.
Roopinder:So why did you willingly move your whole operation and give up your love of surfing to go so far into the desert? So what happened there?
Aaron:I wanted to do engineering in school and Hawaii doesn't really have much in the way of engineering. There's some civil engineering there, but that wasn't the kind of engineering I wanted to do, so I knew I probably needed to move to go to school somewhere for an engineering degree. I have family in Utah BYU's church school. I'm a member of the church and it was just an easy, good fit. It was inexpensive as well, I think when I was going there because the church supplements tuition, I think I paid like $1,500 a semester. It was really affordable and a great education.
Roopinder:It's a really good school For a private university? Yeah, wow, that's amazing. What year was this?
Aaron:This was, let's see. I graduated in 2004.
Roopinder:My tuition was $3,500 and I thought, oh, this is horrible, but yeah, I would have killed for $1,500.
Aaron:Yeah, yeah it's remarkably affordable there.
Roopinder:I don't think any other school, even public school, is that low. I think community colleges have gone higher than that now. Yeah, yep, is it hard to get into.
Aaron:It is hard to get into. Yeah, in fact I didn't get in initially. My high school career was nothing special at all. There's a lot of competition to get in. I didn't get in. And then, luckily, I had a cousin who he's older than me, but he'd gone through the program and he knew people there still and he contacted the engineering department and said, hey, this is my cousin, he's trying to get in. He was declined already. Is there anything that the engineering department can do? And I still don't know exactly how this worked, but they said, yeah, we can actually. And I ended up getting in with a scholarship through the engineering department.
Roopinder:Talk to people? Huh, it really does. Yeah, helps to have friends. I can't imagine you not having good grades the way you apply yourself, but really, they weren't awful grades.
Aaron:I was mostly Bs with some as, but that's not good enough for BYU. No, I didn't have any extracurricular activities that I could point to. I wasn't on speech and debate or anything like that. I showed up at school and did the bare minimum and then went surfing. That was my high school career.
Roopinder:We both discovered that we had a late in life love of math. We both discovered that we had a late in life love of math. Were you always good at math?
Aaron:I was always decent at math, yeah.
Roopinder:Okay, yeah, mine came much later. It took me till way after high school. Yeah, something just clicked.
Aaron:It's funny how that happens, right, it's like the brain can't learn things until it's ready, and when it is, it just clicks.
Roopinder:Yeah, so glad it happened, though, because otherwise I was enrolled in a business school, and then you know what cured me. I've got to let you go, because you're really not making any money talking to me, and you've got a ton of oh, you're fine, I've got a few minutes left.
Roopinder:Oh, business school. What made me go into engineering was accounting class, and I was so bored. I was so bored almost every day and it was so easy, though I think that's what made it so boring. I had over 100 average, but I was falling asleep in class and I realized it doesn't matter how good you are at this. I cannot not do this, it's just too boring.
Roopinder:Tears were coming down my eyes it was so boring. I tried to do the homework, aaron, it's been great fun. I got to let you go because I know you're working on that, on the PDX, and I hope to actually come there and visit. I think you've lined up a lot of great companies and we have some classes there, so good luck with that. I better let you go and attend to that and maybe even go home after a while.
Aaron:Thank you, rupinder. It's always a joy and a delight talking with you. I remember the first time we talked on the phone. I think we spent like an hour. We just we connected so well. It's like kindred spirits. I always enjoy opportunities to catch up. Thank you, you're too kind.
Roopinder:All right, have a great day and have a great Memorial Day weekend.
Aaron:Thank you, thank you so much, you too.
Roopinder:Okay, bye-bye.