Ep 106: The Unbreakable Farmer Part 1

Warren Davies knows what it’s like to hit rock bottom — and rebuild from it.

Known to many as The Unbreakable Farmer, Warren has become one of Australia’s most respected rural mental health speakers, travelling the country sharing hard-earned lessons on resilience, connection, and getting through tough seasons.

In this episode of Salt of the Earth, Farm Stories, Warren opens up about the challenges facing rural Australia, the emotional toll disasters can take on rural families, and why building capacity before crisis matters so much.

We also talk about the work he’s doing in disaster-hit communities around Australia, the importance of mateship and conversation, and how small steps can make a real difference when life feels overwhelming.

This is a grounded and honest conversation.

If this episode brings up anything for you, support is available.
In Australia, you can contact Lifeline Australia on 13 11 14 or visit Lifeline Australia
for 24/7 crisis support and counselling.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Welcome to Salt of the Earth Lum Stories. When everything started to fall apart and I was in that spiral spiraling downwards, the thing that I didn't have was I didn't have any scaffolding or ladders or tools to help me grab onto the edge of that spiral and I just kept falling down.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Today we catch up with Warren Davies. Warren's been doing extraordinary work right around Australia, supporting rural communities through fires, floods, drought, and the uncertainty that seems to keep rolling on. This conversation goes pretty deep.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

There's still smoke in the air, there's still stuff burning, there's trees falling, you know, you can't get through roadblocks, all that sort of stuff. It's bloody overwhelming. It's big.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

We talk about the emotional toll disaster zones can have on communities, survivor guilt, isolation, and why so many people in rural areas are simply exhausted. Warren also talks something really important: building capacity before we actually need resilience. There's some honest and powerful reflections in this one. And yes, I ask him about using the F-word. Here's part A with Warren Davies, the unbreakable farmer. G'day, Warren. G'day, mate. It's good to be back sitting in front of you and having a chat. Yeah, buddy, good to see you, mate. It's been hard to keep up with you, I'll tell you what, over the last 12 months. You've been all over the country.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Yeah, no, it's been a bit full on. Um all over the country in the last 12 months, and yeah, obviously the last three months have been fairly flat out with fire recovery. But since we've last chatted, I've had some pretty cool gigs. Um, one with the flying doctors in central Queensland. That'd be pretty pretty cool to spend a week on the road, but in the air with the flying doctors doing community clinics, and I'm actually doing another run with them in about a month's time, so which will be pretty pretty cool. So, yeah, keeping myself busy and covering the case.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Absolutely, mate. And um, fires, floods, and drought. As I said, it's been a massive year for you and our rural communities. And mate, I've heard you use the F-word a bit lately. Is everything okay?

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Yeah, I know I use that word a bit. That's my second language. I am a dairy farmer. My trade is dairy farming. So the F-word was part of my, I suppose, my first language. English is my second.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

So Well, the angle I was going to take was you use the three F's.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Yeah. Um, so family is that is where you're going. So yeah, family um footy is one of my F's. So I've really got four Fs, but and some cheeky bugger said that a speaking gig yelled out from the back of the room. Surely you got more than four Fs? And I said, uh, well, we'll keep it clean tonight. But yeah, we'll go with the four. Family number one is my number one F. And then facilitating what I do now as a speaker, that really drives me. Like it's the stuff that, you know, that is my job now. Yeah. Yes, I was a dairy farmer, but now that's what I am. Mental health speaker and advocate. So facilitating what I do now, farming is still key. That's my my third F. Even though I'm not actively farming, I'm still working with farming communities every day, you know, whether that's in disaster, whether that's just a community event. So I get to hang around and I'm very passionate about agriculture in Australia, you know, and use my platform now, which is, and I think we've you'll know me well enough because we've spoken before, I'm pretty humble about what I do. But this is my 11th year of doing what I do. And so I've built a bit of a platform. So I think I need to use that voice to be able to advocate for those communities and so they get seen, because that's one thing that happens with our rural communities, whether that's just whatever the challenge they're going through or whether that's a disaster. Once the new news cycle goes, it's they become invisible. So using my voice as you know, the little that that impact that that may have just to keep them visible so people can see them and know that there's challenges out there. So, and then obviously the last one's footy, which depending on well, I know your your podcast goes far and wide, mate. So people in Queensland will go, yeah, yeah. And I said, No, real footy, you know, handball, marking, kicking. That's the real footy. And it's funny. I I always I talk about this in my my talk. So I did a talk about 18 months ago up in Home Hill. In Queensland? In Queensland, yeah. And um, I'm bagging the crap out of NRL. And um then I remember and then I remembered Wally Lewis was the other guest speaker. Yeah, Wally calls me a dickhead after that, because you know, if you think AFL is better than rugby league, son, you need to have a good hard look at yourself. So Wally and I have struck up quite a f a great friendship out of just me bagging the shit out of um out of NRL. But yeah, so footy, but in general, sporting clubs and in rural communities like they're the life button. And so it's one of my passions as well.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Yeah. You just said a minute ago, I'm not sure if your voice is having impact, mate, it is. And I can I'm gonna talk a bit about that later on. What mood are you sensing in farming communities at the moment?

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Well, it depends where you go, but I think there's one word, and it doesn't matter, this is not just farming communities, this is any community or any organization workplace. Two weeks ago, I was mind-blowingly at 171 Collins Street in Melbourne talking to the cybersecurity team at BHP. And it doesn't matter what so far you talk about that organization, you think you know, they're gonna be all over it. Right through to rural communities. I think there's one word and it's uncertainty. And and particularly in rural and regional communities, uncertainty at the moment is one of those key drivers to stress and anxiety, and you know, just the total uncertainty of what's going on. Um, and I don't know if that comes from lack of leadership from you know government level or whether that's just you know, it's the weather. Everything's so uncertain. And, you know, and I think it's just the multiple impacts of some fairly big disasters over the, you know, which have impacted a lot of Australia, not just little bits of Australia. They've they've impacted lots, lots of um Australia. So I think it's just the layering of those is created, you know, and then you you know chuck global stuff on top of that, and yeah, it becomes fairly uncertain, pretty unstable kind of, you know, when you go into sow a crop and all of a sudden you uh your your ear doubles in price and and and fuel's hard to get, and all these things are just imp impacting on top of some of the challenges that they're already facing.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

I think you're exactly right. Uncertainty. Good point. Has the past 12 months changed the way you think about resilience?

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Oh, well, I think my as well I'm sure we'll unpack, I've got a fractured relationship with resilience anyway. It's a different F-word, but I'll keep it clean for your audience, mate. But yeah, it's um it's it's a fractured relationship with resilience because, you know, back when I was in the middle of the millennial drought, particularly, I was I was doing everything that I was meant to do as a bloke and a farmer, and that was to be resilient. Still we push through, keep dusting yourself off. And I now realize in hindsight, and probably the more that I get to work with communities, is resilience, probably the last is the second step. There's a step before that, where we need to build tools and strategies into our toolbox, which builds capacity into our toolbox. So, and I'm sure we'll talk about that as we as we go through. But yeah, my relationship with resilience is quite fractured. And and I and I see that in communities like particularly in more remote communities, if I tell them that if you stand up on stage and call them resilient, they basically want to throw stuff at you, throw stuff at you, they because it's just an overused word. And and the way I see it in rural communities like that are facing challenges, but particularly in that disaster recovery space, it's like an outside organization comes in and sees what you're doing, and then they pat you on the back and saying, geez, you're struggling really well, keep doing what you're doing. And that's what they class as resilience, like, and it's not like because most communities, you know, that are faced some sort of challenge are struggling. They they need support. And it's interestingly, where I've just come from, actually, when you just text me just before, I was just coming through Ruffy, so one of the fire-impacted areas. And and back in 2019, 2020, a lot of communities talked about community-led recovery. Community-led recovery, but you know, any challenge, it doesn't matter if it's disaster or not. Um, Ruffi have changed that language a little bit to community enabled recovery, because community-led recovery looks like, oh, you're all over it, you've got it, we'll leave you to it. We you don't need our support. Where community-enabled recovery is more, yeah, look, we've got this, but we need your help. And we need support from outside, but we don't need you to tell us how to suck eggs, basically.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

So can people be resilient but still overloaded?

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Oh, definitely. Like, well, well, that's the thing. That's the big, big, big thing that I I it's a really dangerous area. And that's what I say. Me being resilient, because resilience, persistence, and determination. Resilience is still one of my words. It's part of my journey. But now I look back at it, it was really dangerous. Yeah. Really dangerous to be resilient and just keep pushing and pushing and pushing until you hit breaking point. So that's why now I've taken that step back and really looked at it and know that my relationship with resilience was fractured. But there must be something else, and that is building that capacity, that framework, those tools that so when shit does hit the fan, you've got something to pull out of that toolbox. Where if you're just res r relying on resilience, eventually you'll run out of that dust that I you know talk about. And one day you won't get back up. You won't, and that's and that's the scary bit. And I know that's where I got to in my journey, and I can see that happen to so many people because they just keep driving, pushing, pushing, pushing, and then eventually all of a sudden they wonder why they're at breaking point. Where, and to be totally honest with you, when I sat down, I sat down on about the 15th of December last year. So moving into my 11th year of the Unbreakable Farm, I thought, maybe time to do a bit of a strategic plan. 11 years. Yeah, it's no use flying by the seat of your seat of your pants anymore. And and I thought, well, how am I gonna just keep myself relevant and maybe get a couple of those corporate gigs that are out there to to share my voice in different different areas? Um, and then I thought about this, and it was so I I come up with the idea of talking about this capacity building, but capacity before crisis. And obviously that's the 15th of December. Well on the 9th of January, all hell broke loose here in Victoria. So that strategic plan has actually sat on the shelf since because I've just been flat out. But the more I've been working with communities, it's not only about building capacity before crisis in your toolbox, but you've got an opportunity to build capacity during and after crisis as well. So all the lessons that you learn and you can tuck them away in that toolbox. So the next time, instead of just relying on resilience, you've got that capacity that helps you tap into it, that resilience. Before you need the resilience. Before it before, yeah, well, it complements each other because we all need to be resilient. But resilience is the second step. And and I um so I really unpacked all that and tried to think about how I could articulate that the best way I can. And it's about building those frameworks and having those tools in your toolbox. Because when I look back at my journey, like when everything started to fall apart and I was in that spiral, spiraling downwards, the thing that I didn't have was I didn't have any scaffolding or ladders or tools to help me grab onto the edge of that spiral, and I just kept falling down. When if you've got some of those tools where you can chuck a ladder in before you start falling, and you can help climb out of that that spiral. And so it was trying to work out a way of articulating that, yeah, resilience is necessary, we need it. But I think capacity's the the important part because as I said, and you know, if you you can only pick yourself up and dust yourself off so many times, and eventually, yeah, you'll crush and burn.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

So is capacity about support, rest, connection, and systems around you?

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Yeah, and I I think that's what it is. It's about, well, one, but most importantly, knowing knowing your support network, like knowing who where or where support is, like who's in your support network, who can I rely on if shit hits the fan that I can talk to? Who are those people? That's probably one of your key tools. But communication and connection are also, and I've this has been a big thing during this fire recovery. And if you wanted to represent recovery at the moment, and one of the key things that are going to lead to recovery moving forward in these areas that have been hit with bushfires is that connection's the most important thing. So communication and connection, they kind of go hand in hand, but knowing who your support network is as well. So they're the key, you know, the really the key tools that you need in your in your toolbox. But then building frameworks. So you know, what does a capacity framework look like? And it's, you know, making sure that you're doing those things on a regular basis. So you're building this framework around yourself. So you have got something to scale up if you do fall into a bit of a spiral, whether that's a you know, a little bit of a blimp or you're in a really downward spiral like I found myself in.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

But this framework doesn't need to be complicated, does it?

SPEAKER_01 14:22

I think that's the that's the whole thing is we overcomplicate, you know. If you look at that, you know, communication, connection, and making sure you know where your support is and how to reach out to that support and have that support in place, they're the important things and they're simple. Like that's really getting back to basics. We try and overcomplicate it, but there's nothing more important. And I've seen that time and time again over the last whatever it is, 15 or 16 weeks, where community hubs have have stood up out of the ashes, run by people who were impacted themselves, and they've been supplying meals three times a day, giving a place for people to come and it's a safe haven. Yes, reality's just outside the door, but for that time that you're sitting there having a meal or a chat or whatever, it's you can leave that reality at the door kind of thing. It's it's been so important, that community connection and and get together where people have and it's a safe place. There is a downside to that though, because when those people run out of energy and things have to scale back again, well, where do those people go? And that's the bit that I'm kind of find myself in the middle of now is that in this part of the recovery, is trying to identify those people now that are slipping through the cracks and isolating themselves and not engaging with community because you know the community hubs of scaling back a touch and just rocking up the driveway with a box of shortbread, mate, and saying good day. And um, they can either tell you to piss off and leave me alone, or they can say, love to have a chat, let's sit down. And more than likely that's what they're gonna say because people just want to connect. People just want to be heard, people want to be seen, and and and that comes with connection and communication. So they're the key tools in that toolbox.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Sometimes that community capacity might only be built with one or two people. But if we can encourage more people to get involved, it might be just rock up to the footy or talking to more people at the shop, getting the paper or whatever it might be, mightn't it?

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Yeah, and it's like a perfect example was two Friday nights ago, we organized to have a uh just a men's only night. It was a steak night up at Ruffy, and they got me along to speak. The girls at the hub, they they organized it. You know, Ruffy's a very small place, and a lot of the people that are living in that community have been dislocated because they've lost their homes and stuff like that. We had 70 blokes come along, and I was just a byproduct that night, which I am at most offensive I speak at. The whole thing that was happening was outside, and I can show you pictures, mate, where they were just standing around, it was a cool night, so we had an open fire going. They're all just standing around having a having a beer or a drink or you know, a soft drink or whatever, just chatting, talking, um, sharing stories. And I suppose that's the another key thing in building capacity is that shared wisdom within communities as well, because particularly when, and I'm seeing this right at the moment is, and I've seen it in other disasters that I've worked in, where the further you get away from ground zero day, I suppose, if you like, the further you get out, the the community then fractures into three distinct groups. There's the people that look like they've got everything together and they're moving forward and they're re you know, clearing their house side or whatever, but they're still struggling just under the surface. Then there's a group in the middle who are battling with insurance or battling their way through a dry period or whatever it is, and they just they don't know which way to turn. And then there's a group that have started to disengage and they're slipping through the cracks and they're not connected anymore. And so the work that I'm doing at the moment is just trying to make sure you're staying in touch with all everybody, but finding those people that are disconnected. And I talked to a guy the other day, and he hadn't connected with any of the community hubs, and he's just been and he said, I'm just frigging exhausted. And I said, Tell me about your day. And he said, Well, basically, I'm going from fence line to fence line, just thinking about what I should be doing. And it gets to the end of the day, and I've done nothing. And so we we sat down, we talked about then focus, like part of building capacity in his toolbox is to focus. So focus on the yards or your your front sheet paddock or whatever it is, get that done. And then once you get that done, move to the next thing, and that so that builds then confidence and self-esteem again. In I can get stuff done here. Um and an achievement is part of that capacity building again, and it all just starts to snowball. But like you said, it's about bringing people together, and whether that's at a sporting club or whether it's just bringing community together, and and particularly those reluctant people, because they're the ones that'll end up getting the most benefit out of being there. And going back to that point of shared wisdom is that because someone's in that three groups of people have navigated something, we're all kind of navigating the same journey, but they might have tapped into something that you've never heard of, or they've talked to someone that's pointed them in a different direction, or and it helps. So that shared wisdom becomes really important as well.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

And those three different groups you just talked about, their levels of concern could all be exactly the same, couldn't they? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that group that is not talking, they might be obvious that they've got a problem.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

The ones that are talking, yeah, well, they could still be hiding a lot too.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Yeah, and that and that can show up later on down the track. And I suppose the best way to explain it, like we're using it in an analogy, is that right at day one, using the bushfires, but you can use the floods or anything as an example, you're all in the same boat. Regardless of what your loss or anything, your community's been impacted. So you could have lost your house or you might not have, or but we're all in the same boat. And from there, the top the clock starts ticking, and the further we get away from that point, we're all in the same boat where but we're facing different storms.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

And I remember you're talking about during the fires, there was a lady who lost three roses at the front of a house, but the place next door lost the whole house, and her concerns were exactly the same. So we've got to get those everyone talking.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

So we've seen a lot of that that survivor guilt has been really big during this this um disaster that, you know, because I think in the Marandin shire there's over 200 houses that were lost, but there's still a lot that weren't. And you know, some are only their second dwelling. They might have been just weekenders as well. But the thing is, is everyone's you know, it's that survivor guild. Oh, well, I didn't lose mine, but oh mate's lost everything, you know. And that that is a real thing. And and it's probably even been more um relevant or evident in this disaster than the other ones. It's a really different, this these fires in Victoria have been really different compared to a lot of other disasters. I can't put my finger on what it is, particularly probably this one, because it impacted, you know, it started at the Hume Freeway and it went right through past Alexandra or everywhere in between. Um, yeah, there was bush in between in places, but most of it was farming. So it's wiped out fences, stock, you know, houses. It's had a massive impact on people's income and their livelihoods. So it's a little bit, it's been a different, it's not like being a traditional bushfire where it burns through state forest and then might come out and hit a bit. It's basically impacted income producing land from start to finish, and that's that's probably. Been a the biggest difference, and it's so that's why it's had the biggest impact.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

And those people, whether it be sm we think from the outside it's a small or large concern that they've got, their toolboxes might all be a bit different. Hey.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Like I I know through a time that I went through, I had three things to focus on. Drink lots of water, exercise, because that naturally just made you feel good. And talk. And I was good at two of those things. Yeah. Drinking water and exercise.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Oh, so I say you thought you might be not drinking water and the rest of it was all good. Um, and and it is, everyone's different. And it's a bit like I use trying to keep a bit of humor in some of my talks, is like you try and tell a farmer that he needs to meditate. And he goes, Yeah, I'm not doing that. But I said, meditation doesn't mean sitting under a triangle and humming. You could be sitting down in the back paddock in the ute watching the sun go down. Whatever works for you should be in your toolbox. I can tell you, I can give you a list of tools to put in your toolbox. None of them will work for you. So you've got to pick what works for you. And whatever works for you or however that works for you is really like they're important tools and they're your tools and they work for you. I think one of the things is we don't, we're not curious enough about our own mental health as well. So what does work for me? You know, I'll go and see, I'll go and see a psychologist, which is something that I, you know, encourage people to do, or go and see their GP and they'll tell me to do this, this, and this, but none of it works for me. So be curious and work out what does work for you. Start putting those tools in your toolbox, and that's how we build, you know, really robust capacity in those toolboxes, because it's not someone else's tools, they're the ones that work for me. And then obviously have a clean out every now and again too. Well, that doesn't work anymore, and throw it away and put something else in there.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

Yeah. Fascinating. Where have you seen people hurting the most in rural Australia at the moment? Or lately?

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Look, there's all different, I think there's all different areas. And that's probably another overused word because using, I'll use Ruffy as an example again, like oh, it's whatever it is from here, 55 Ks from here. It's not really isolated, but it is. It's sitting on top of a hill, on top of the the hills.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

And we're in Shepperdon today, so listen to it.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

Yeah, sorry. Yeah, and so Strathbogie Ranges, and it's sitting up there, but it's very isolated because it just it seems isolated, you know. And I have worked out and as I said in in central Queensland, and that's isolated. So it's there's different sorts of isolation, but I think isolation is one of those things in rural regional communities that we all struggle with. But and I think I go back to that like a little bit of more of a political comment, but not being seen. Like I think it's one of the challenges that we a lot of people talk about is well, they don't see us anymore, like they don't value us, they don't, you know, we're just here, but yet we provide food, you know, and we've seen that, you know, with recent things that are happening. We need to become a little bit more sustainable in our country, and we've got it sitting here. Um we've got the best farmers in the world and the best regional community. We could make a, you know, make it all work. It's just we need to focus a little bit more on those communities. So I think feeling not seen, isolated, but then the challenges were around services and funding, and you know, here in Victoria, we're a little bit short on money at the moment with the government. And um, you know, so these things all impact the further you get away from a capital city, the more impact that that has. So, you know, we're pretty lucky sitting here in Sheppinham. We're sitting in a great facility that's uh, you know, one of the beacons of like the community around here is in the rural health facility here, attached to the university. That's that's a great thing to have here, but not every community's got that. And then the further you get away from Sheppin', the worse it gets as well. So I think lack of services, being seen and and being able to advocate for themselves and being taken seriously. A couple of other challenges that are really played out over the last 12 months is you know, around renewables and the impacts that they're having on communities and the division that it's creating. And from me, that's an apolitical comment, but it's just what I see. And and I see both sides of the story as well, because you know, I've been a farmer that um needed to come up with some strategies to create for financial sustainability. You know, I've sold heifers to China, I've sold water down the river, you know, things that probably weren't popular for the generation before me looking at what I was doing. Some people there it's a pure business decision that they have to consider, you know, facilitating renewables on their properties, but it does have then an impact to the rest of the community, and that creates big division. And I think there's been lack of transparency and all that. So that's a major issue in communities right across Australia, not just here, everywhere I go. There's always that in the background. So there's lots of challenges out there, and that's just not the normal, you know. Do we get a crop in the ground kind of challenges? They're bigger, you know, they impact, you know, succession planning and family dynamics, and not only family dynamics, but then community dynamics as well, and it creates division, which is a bit scary. You know, I've copped a bit of that flack over the last 12 months with some of the work that I've been doing, thinking that I'm I'm one side of the other and I'm not. You know, I'm just there, I'm purely there to follow that mission of that I'm on, and it's create awareness and education around mental health and well-being, and inspire conversations and empower people to seek help and the challenges that you're a f that you're facing, you know. I sit on the fence, it's trying to inspire those conversations and get people talking again because one of the things that happens is people then isolate themselves and get angry and that's that spiral. And then they're more isolated. Exactly. And we just need to, you know, identify the elephant in the room, especially around that sort of stuff. And well, how do we deal with this? And you know, we c cannot have been neighbours with someone for five generations and then not talk to them. That's not the rule. That's not the way we not the Aussie way. That's not the way we deal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

He heard of a community in the last 12 months too, where there was some arguments over a battery farm coming in. But that separated the the community, it tore the church apart. It tore the people weren't going to the pub. They didn't want to go to that shop anymore. Horrible stuff.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

That's that's terrible. And like, you know, if we go back to that perfect example of the centre of any rural community is a sporting club. And I've heard, you know, sport footy clubs where half the team gets changed in their cars because they won't go into the club rooms because they're sponsored by the wind farm or the solar farm or that. And I just think like, how do we navigate this? And and and as a mental health advocate and speaker, it's really frustrating because we've got to get back to some of those basics, you know, and that's around kindness and compassion and empathy and and understanding some people make decision have to make decisions because of necessity as well, and don't judge them on that and and try and encourage and work out a way forward because we've built this, you know, over generations. Agriculture and rural communities have been the cornerstone of our country, and we can't let that just all dissolve because of outside influences. We need to stick a bit tighter, I think.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

So would you say rural communities could be a bit more exhausted than resilient right now?

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Yeah, I definitely ex you know, as I said, uncertainty is one of those key words, but exhaustion's another one because it's just constant. It's not climate-impacted stuff like drought or flood or bushfire, it's outside stuff, like well, whether it's fuel prices or whether that's, you know, fertilizer prices, all these external stuff just keeps adding pressure to what's all was already traditionally a fairly high pressure kind of job or place to live. And that just breaks down the community because people move away and then it adds more pressure because then the school closes, and the footy club can't field a team, and then that adds more pressure, and then things then become regionalized. So then you're traveling more for your services, and it just that creates that more isolation, which we're trying to negate, and we and it's creating more of it. So I think people are just exhausted, and and even just general life, and I'm sure you feel that at times where you could wish you could just press a pause button and just get everything lined up again and then press play again and let it all roll out, but it's not that it doesn't work that way.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

When you arrive at a d disaster-affected town, what hits you first?

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Oh geez, um yeah, it's just well, it's uh like it's huge. Um, it's a big thing. Firstly, me being me and my internal dialogue is what the hell are you doing here and what value are you going to be able to bring to this? Like, this is big. But all of a sudden, I don't know what it is. I think it's either been doing it for long enough or just understand because the empathy bit just really clicks in. And you know, most people just need a hug or some a shoulder to cry on, or just someone to talk to, or just chat about their dogs. An old bloke out the front of the yark hall there one day, and he's just sitting there. I noticed him sitting by himself, and I went over and all he wanted to do was talk about his dogs. But then I found out from one of the um organisers of the hub he'd lost his house and everything else, and all, but he just wanted to talk about his dogs, and you've just got to find the common ground, how can you, you know. And I think one of the things is, and I I've got reasonably good at it, is walking into that walking into that tough conversation because yeah, my internal dialogue's going, what do I do here? How am I gonna, how am I gonna deal with this? Your heart and your gut take over and you just you know what to do. Um, and it's just normally you can't say anything, like I can't change anything. But know that you're coming from somewhere like I I look at it, I always go, Well, what am I talking to? A group of people that have been wiped out by a bushfire. I've never experienced that. But then I think about it, I closed the gate on a farm and lost everything, same thing, just so we're still standing there. So I kind of use that to write a you're here, just be. And most of the time, and I talk about this all the time, most of the time you you don't have to say anything anyway, you just gotta listen or hold space. You just gotta sit. Most people don't even want to say anything, they just need to know that someone's got their back and you sit there. But driving, driving in like this particularly this fire. So I got basically on the fire ground two days after, so there's still smoke in the air, there's still stuff burning, there's trees falling, you know, you can't get through roadblocks, all that sort of stuff. It's bloody overwhelming. It's big. Um, and I don't know what it is. I've tried to nail this because if I could articulate, I could write something about this of why it is, why I do, why it's something that I feel so compelled to do, but it's it just is, and and you just got to be there. So you're just there. And one of the things that I've learned is you entrench yourself, you try and entrench yourself into that community. So you're a you there, you they see you showing up, and whether they talk to you for the first time, five times that they see you, the next time, all of a sudden, like I was randomly catching up with one of the local mental health practitioners in our town yesterday. We walked out of the cafe after having a coffee, and this lady just walked up to me and goes, she just said, Can I give you a hug? And I said, By all means. And she said, What you've been writing, everything that you write on your Facebook, on your socials, I've read everything, and she goes, It hits home every time. I just want to thank you. And like so, it's just, yeah, so you've just got to keep showing up. And I think, you know, I'm not bound by policy or procedure or really funding a lot a lot of what I've been doing is just being self-funded in this bushfire recovery because I just wanted to be there. I had a connection to the community. I knew people that were hurting, people that had lost their homes, so it was personal as well. But just keep it showing up is so is just one of those key things, I think, that you've got to keep doing. Thank you, mate. And it just becomes fulfilling then, like, because you know some way, shape or form you're making some sort of impact. But as I said, going back to my I'm yeah, uh you're bringing out the best in me, mate, because I'm I'm reflecting on some of this, because I don't reflect on that very often. I just do jump into you and go, who can you talk to today? I've got a list of at the moment, a list of 30 people that I are on a bit of a target list, and I try and call in with a few of those and try and get through them and sitting down and having a cupper or whatever and just having a chat, just checking in. You just keep doing that. And um, in between, shoot off to somewhere else into a speaking gig here, there and everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Yeah, but that's making me think about, especially that that fellow with his dogs at the front of the shop that you went and had a chat to. Like this isolation word is meaning a lot more to me now through this chat. So he all of a sudden, for a few minutes and probably for the rest of that day, didn't feel as isolated.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

You just had a couple of minutes with him. Didn't didn't get to the tough stuff. No. But he didn't feel as well.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

So I didn't, I didn't talk anything. Didn't we never talked anything fire that day? He was just, he was mining, he had his dogs and he was mining someone, a lady's dog while she was in filling out forms with some of the service providers to get some money, you know, some emergency relief money. We're just sitting there, we're just chatting, and we just talked about the dogs and how cute they were and you know how intelligent. We had one that was a cattle dog, and so intelligent, like you can just see the brain ticking over all the time. And we never talked about anything else like really that day apart from that. But it was just, I think that's the whole thing. You don't need to have answers or advice or anything. You know, part of this work, especially in disaster recovery, is just holding space and having conversation and connection. And well, he felt visible. He probably felt seen that day because you just took time out, and it doesn't cost you anything.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Like gee, I bet that dog knew exactly where that fellow was at.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

Oh, she uh that six cents. It's very, very interesting. Interesting how yeah, the dogs and all that know what's going on. Yeah, well, there was one lady that I've been supporting through fairly tragic circumstances with this fire, and yeah, her dog knew she if it could talk, it could tell you every you wouldn't need to know anything else because it'll be able to fill you all in on what's going on. It's it's very interesting how they they've got that sense of being able to know.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

Yeah, they're incredible. Yeah. Warren, is recovery from drought different to recovery from fire or flood?

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Great question. I get asked this all the time. What's worse? What's worse? And for me, obviously, through my own journey, I look, it's they're all equal. I'll make that point first. But for me, drought is insipid. It's like a cancer, you don't know the start-finish point. Where a flood and a bushfire, they come through, they go, they wreck everything. And then if you look at it that way, so that's my opinion is that drought's insipid, you don't know. You know, it might be six months, it might be seven years, you don't know. Um, so you it's hard to make decisions, which creates uncertainty, more uncertainty. Um decision making's become clouded. Bushfire, it's a shock. So drought slowly but surely creeps up, and then all of a sudden you go, shit, it hasn't rained for three years. Like it just creeps up because you're busy. Fire comes through, so you're in shocks. Floods a bit the same. Bushfire, yes, it it creates devastation. And people lose their house either way. You know, talking about people in Lismore saying, you know, the constant still four years or so down the track, and people still aren't in houses and stuff. So you lose your house even if it's still standing, you can't live in it. But bushfire cleans everything up. There's, you know, apart from you know, fencing and and so forth and cleaning debris, trees and all that, where flood, I think, you know, there's the mud and the stench and uh everything else. It's um so they've all got their different different things. But for me, because I've experienced the full force of a drought, it was insipid and it broke me down piece by piece. Where a fire will come through and it breaks you instantly, and there's shock and everyone, you know, so they're all the same. Um, it's just different.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

And drought can be that slow burn that just sneaks up on you.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

Yeah, just continually shooting animals every day, yeah, every few days. Yeah, and it just continually where where the big shock and impact, like particularly, there was a lot of stock losses in this fire, so um euthanasing stock, and that was a big thing for people, um, particularly for their mental health, particularly for a lot of the young blokes as well, because the the the older farmers they've you know pat them on the shoulder and said, We've got we've got this, don't worry about it. But then the impact of day after day of doing that's not good. Because regardless of what anyone thinks, your animals are you know, that's the whole reason you're a farmer. So no one likes to put their kid, you know, animals down. So it's uh that's a the they're there's big tolls, and so it's a really hard question to go back to that original question. Which is worse, what's hard? It's it's really hard.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

Well, it's a bit like that lady losing three roses over the next door and neighbor losing their house, it's the same.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Yeah, and it all revolves back to what I talk about around, you know, it doesn't matter how big or small your challenge is, and this doesn't necessarily relate to disaster, but it doesn't matter how big or small your challenge is. If if it's impacting your mental health and well-being, it's big enough to ask for help. Like you because it doesn't matter, like you're you know, going back, and that was that lesson I learned back in 2020 when that lady was inconsolable in a room full of people that had all lost their building or like their homes, and she'd lost three rose bushes. It was just massive survivor guilt that but she was the mate the person that probably needed the most help in that room that day.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

Do you think our city folks understand the impacts in our rural communities?

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Another good question, mate. You've pinging out all the big ones today. Um look, without but with not trying to seem disrespectful. No, no. Because I'm not, probably not. You know, as one of the I made a really big point.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Sorry, and vice versa. And vice versa.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

We like my I've got two kids that live in the city, and it's just like, eh, no, not for me. Dealing with traffic every day, I don't know how they do that. Like it's just crazy. It's bad enough going to Wadonga and fighting Pikao traffic, and it's only it's funny you say that four days out in the farm last week.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

And I came into town, we went, Leona and I, she'd just been over to America for work. Hustle and bustle of America. I've been out in the paddock for four days. We came into the supermarket and I was frustrated in the aisle.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

People went my way with trolleys and like you know the rules and the roundabout for God's sake. But you know, like so, everyone's got their different challenges. But I think one of the things that happens particularly, and because we've we're traditionally we just get on with it in rural communities. So once it leaves the news cycle, it's kind of forgotten about. And it was one of the things that we're using my voice was particularly during Easter time, because you know, Yark and Alexandra and places like that are the main thoroughfare, like through to Mount Buller or to Lake Eeldon, and people were going to drive there. We'd had a bit of rain, the paddocks had greened up, and everyone goes, oh, everything's good, but then there's a chimney over there, and there's a pile of corrugated iron there, and these are people's houses, and things aren't normal. And trying to make people aware that this is, you know, the goodwill of people in that initial phase is just overwhelming. But also knowing that, you know, this isn't a six-month, this isn't a six-week, six-month kind of recovery. This is going to be years, if not, you know, you know, 10 years of recovery. And some people won't recover, you know, because it's burnt in their head, isn't it? Well, it's financially ruined them, or they're at an age where we're not rebuilding. That's, you know, we're 70, mid-70s, we can't do, we've got no capacity to do this going forward.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

That was part A with Warren Davies. A big thanks to Warren for his honesty, wisdom, and the work he continues to do for rural Australia. And just a reminder: if anything in this episode brings something up for you, please reach out to Tumone New Trust or contact Lifeline on 13, 11, 14. If you haven't heard Warren's own story, I highly recommend going back and listening to episode 57. It's an extraordinary conversation, and it really gives an important context to this episode.