Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 0:00

Hey, I'm Reggie Ponder the real critic and welcome to the Real Critics Network. I've been going for a minute'cause I was on vacation, but I got my co who was me? I got my co-host here, Kathia Woods and, Kathia. how you doing?

Kathia Woods: 0:15

Good. I traveled for work. I still made all my zooms, but Reggie said, I'm going to South Africa. You will not be here for me until I land back in America.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 0:27

Look, so those

Kathia Woods: 0:27

of you that have been wondering, why has there been laps? It was not Ms. Woods, Mr. Ponder.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 0:33

This was a, was traveling

Kathia Woods: 0:34

the globe, he was out here like Wildo. Where is Reggie?

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 0:38

This was a trip 30 years in the making. So we've been trying to get to South Africa for a long time. So we finally got there celebrating my wife's birthday. She was with her friends and all that. And actually that's a really good lead in to my, to our segment of what's on my mind. Because what's on my mind is actually South Africa. It's Africa, in fact. Is that the two trips that I took, the trip we took in November of last year to Kenya and the trip we just took to South Africa. We learned a lot about history and in all of the museums and all the places that we traveled, they had movies, little short movies about either apartheid, oppression, freedom, fighting for their freedom. And I will tell you is that these real life short documentaries that they had in the museums that we went into, I learned a lot. And when I say I learned a lot, we talk about how maybe we don't learn enough about black history here. Man, I didn't know half of the stuff as to how the United States in our figures in the United States influenced a lot of things that happened on the continent as well as how. Apartheid in systems like that were mimicked after things that happened on our continent in our area. So I learned a lot, so much stuff that's going through my head and our movies, the movies that we see, like Cry Freedom and things about Nelson Mandela. Those movies don't even do the history justice. They're a little piece. But I'm so happy that I was able to put my feet on the continent and learn so much more about South Africa, about Ghana and I hope to return. So that's what's on my mind. I'm still thinking about the continent.

Kathia Woods: 2:42

It's absolutely shameful. A lot of people don't know that Nazi Germany looked at segregation in the United States and said, Hey. Let's look at, we can do that to Jews and then took it up a notch, right? That is literally in the papers and in the architect of the Holocaust, right? We can look at how South Africa looked at again, the United States with the apartheid and said, and Australia, for those of you don't know, also had an apartheid system. And not just how they treated black people, but the original inhabitants, aboriginals, which I think we gotta come up with a better name than that. And how they treated the original Australians, right? So a lot of this, when people say we want to make America great, or we want to have Africa for Africans, what do you mean, beloved? We need some clarity. And I think like when people, our current leader, not to get totally political, wants to bring certain people. From certain African nations. Those people and those African nations are going, we don't wanna come here, we good. And I think what South Africa did was really smart, right? And I feel like Brazil needs that. When, especially what I'm still here, where we talk about what we touched upon so many Brazilians that were disappeared and were murdered and tortured, that the families never got a body back what South Africa did. By having those public hearings, to give people, say, we're gonna give you immunity so that you can tell the truth. Not to absolve them of their sins, but so these families can get some closure to know what was done to their loved ones and who did what so they, the world and let the world in. Because a lot of these people usually. By people that were doing the wrong or the descendants were doing the wrong. Oh, it wasn't that bad. Just like people, well, slavery wasn't that bad. The slaves and the master were living together. The slaves didn't wanna live there. They weren't there. This was some kumbaya, they may were making the best out of a really horrible situation. I think what they did is to reconcile, and I think that's why their progress in some areas is better because they pulled a bandaid back and they're willing to tell the truth about their history. As ugly as it is, no place is perfect. But I do think that is part of why they were able to. And move forward. You know what I mean? Absolutely. But I'm glad you had a good trip. Trip and I'm glad that you and Donna had a good time. Got some sun, some good food. Now here's the question. Reggie, did you go on Safari?

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 5:20

Okay. So yes, Reggie did go on safari and I was scared as all get out. For people who are just tuning into this podcast, I am a scaredy cat. I'll be talking about that in relationship to the movies. I'll be talking out in relationship to walking down the street. I am a scaredy cat. And speaking of cats, one of the first animals we saw on Safari were the lions. And the lions, we were so close that if I put my hand out of the don't do that vehicle, if I did, they would've had them, some Reggie and bits. At one point. I have a video as we're tracking, moving alongside of the lions where the lion is like, yeah, I'm chilling. This is my world. And all of a sudden he turns toward me. I jumped back so fast because he, it just looked like he was just gonna jump right into the vehicle and have him some Reggie and bitch, not Reggie and bitch, just some Reggie and I, everybody laughing at me because I am such the scaredy cat. So yes, we saw the lions, the leopards, the. Giraffes, elephants. These

Kathia Woods: 6:44

giraffes are amazing. Oh, you got ama. All of it is amazing. But I'm sure you probably were like, listen, don't get no ideas. Don't put your hand out here. Don't be trying to feed anybody'cause I will feed you.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 6:56

I'll feed you one of these other people that's in this vehicle. It, it really was great. We went to on three safaris, we went one to one in the afternoon, one in the early morning and then one at night. And the one in the afternoon we saw a lot. The one in the early morning we saw a lot. But the one at night, did you see elephants? Huh?

Kathia Woods: 7:17

Did you see elephants?

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 7:18

Lots of them. Lots of them. I

Kathia Woods: 7:20

know Reggie was like, so what part of the feeding cycle are we coming in? Did everybody eat before we go

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 7:27

out there? For, for sure. And there was one time when the, our vehicle almost cut off the baby elephant from the herd. And we were in danger because those elephants turned around like, wait, what? What's going on? What's, and they're

Kathia Woods: 7:44

fast. People don't, and you feel it like the grounds are shaking. Like you're like, Ooh, ooh, hold on this jeep. I don't think it's faster than that. Those an, a lot of people don't realize, number one, elephant moms are very protective. They are fast. They will hurt you and review it later. So I know you were like, how fast does this thing go?

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 8:07

We were the montagues and the caplets, we saw that fight with the, between the baboons'cause they were fighting over territory. And we saw that fight there. So it, it was, it really was amazing. The views were fantastic. I'll share some pictures as for sure. So it was great. And with that, this week. Talking about being proud

Kathia Woods: 8:31

of you. Proud of you. Because I know you were like, what? Three What? Why can't we just do one all inclusive? But I'm proud of you. Oh,

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 8:39

You are right In my head, I was hoping how could we just do one safari? One Safari is good enough. I don't need to get that close to the animals. Animals. I just don't,

Kathia Woods: 8:50

that's how we know we, we African, but we ain't damn type by African.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 8:55

I don't need to get that close. So it was fantastic. We had a great time and of course I'll share some pictures and for people who might want to see that out, I'll try to share some on my website@reggieponder.com. I didn't think about that, but I'll share some pictures there so people can check out some of those pictures. With that, talking about being a scary cat, let's move into our movie SEC segment and this week we are only gonna talk about, or at least in this segment, we're only gonna talk about one movie. And that movie is centers. This is a much anticipated film. Everybody's been talking about it, everybody's been waiting for it. And everybody except me has interviewed somebody from the movie. So I'm gonna give this one to you first, Katya.'cause you probably interviewed everybody in their mother on this film. Yes.

Kathia Woods: 9:43

I talked to Michael B. Jordan.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 9:45

Oh my goodness.

Kathia Woods: 9:46

And I talked to Ryan Coogler. So we had a really good, we had a good time talking about how Mike prepared. He had a dialect coach and he had a twin coach so that he could he worked with identical twins to talk about the mannerism and their interaction. I love how they had, how Ruth Carter, who was on costumes made sure how, even though they know they had different style, whereas the one twin is more outgoing and more playful and whereas the other twin is more cautious and more serious. Right. I'm not gonna give it away who, does what. But I think that, each one of'em, I think I said, I think this is Mike's most vulnerable and layered, because he's somebody like with Creed, a lot of it was his physicality, right? And he is a handsome guy. There's nothing you can say about it. But I feel like a lot of times they played on that. Even in as Killmonger, they played on his physicality. With this, it was more him being he was not as bulky and him being a little bit more vulnerable in certain parts. Also, there are so many parts of it that I love, like. It really depicts small southern black towns. If if you've been down south where you like, this is it. This is the whole town. Everybody knows everybody. Everybody knows everybody's business. The gangsters know everybody. There's a scene where somebody's robbing somebody and they said, Hey, is that you? Oh man. Oh, I didn't know it was you. Not saying I'm wrong for stealing, but had I known I wouldn't have robbed you. It's that type of vernacular where you know, everybody in that town has their skills. So I'm gonna need you to bring this. I'm gonna need you to fry the fish. I'm gonna need you to handle the door. Do you know what I mean? So it is there's gonna be a lot of characteristics of that film where you're like, I know these people. I know who they are. You know what I mean? Absolutely. I know people like that minus the scary part,

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 11:45

a absolutely. And I want to step back for a second and just tell people who's in this film other than Michael B. Jordan. You have Miles Caton, who is a, I guess, a prodigy, if you will. And while he is great musically, they didn't lean into that as, as much. They allowed this guy to act. He had to come and bring more than his musical skills to this film. They had Haley Steinfeld as, as well as one of the love interests they had. Jack O'Connell, who scared the bejesus outta me. Then the person that I love, I don't, I can't say the most, but ney. Moku, oh my goodness. She looked beautiful. She was strong. What she brought to this film was just fantastic. And then Jamie Lawson made me just want to get married all over again. I was like, she is,

Kathia Woods: 12:39

she's one of those actresses. We saw her in Malcolm X MLKX. We saw her in the woman came. She's one of those actresses. I feel like she is one roll away from that big breakout role. Right.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 12:54

I totally, she's

Kathia Woods: 12:54

always good and she's always steady and the camera loves her, like her whole. Cheekbone her whole, she's just beautiful. She really

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 13:03

is. And I want to go back to talking about beautiful.'cause ney looked phenomenal to me. I, the way in which this film was shot let me finish the people. Nevermind. I'm about to get ahead of myself then. Then there's someone we all know who's Omar, Benson Miller, who's in it. And you love Omar e. Every time he plays a role I like him. And then you get the cherry on top, the. I don't know the thing that caps the whole movie, Delroy, Lindo, OMG. When you look at the entire cast, when you look at this entire cast, what they brought to this film makes you want to stay with it, makes you want more of it. The casting in this is great. Which by the way, Kathia, I am so happy that the Oscar, the Academy, a awards have decided to add a casting category because I know that Coogler didn't have to run out and find Michael B. Jordan, but all these other people had to be cast and the casting directors should get the kind of credit that they should get. So it's,

Kathia Woods: 14:12

yes, I said that. I said, how come is it that you can have black directors that can have a diverse cast and everybody makes sense? Like nobody's just there to be background dancers. Do you know what I mean? And I feel like. That's because it's so intentional and it's, you have Asian, you have, which is the makeup of the delta because of you have Asian migration multiple times in history that attracted them, right? Because fishing water made sense for that culture. And also the effect, the, how the white people were used. It wasn't just done as like, Hey, I just wanna have white people and we're gonna trash white people. Like they had a purpose in there. So I agree with you that casting, and again mo miles Canton was an absolute gem of a fine, like, shout out to whoever found him like.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 15:07

He, I think he was traveling with her at age 16 or 13 or something of that nature. But, so he's been a, from a musical perspective a, he's been on the map. But from an acting perspective, I totally agree with you to think that, this is my guy. This is the guy that, that we're gonna get. So from many of you who don't know what this movie is about, it is about these two twins who are played by Michael B. Jordan. It's Smoke and Stack. I like that by the way. I re I really like that. But they're returning from Chicago to their hometown of Mississippi to start all over. But all is not what it seems. It's not going, it's clear that they're running away from something, but it's not clear what they are running into. And that, and what they're running into might be a bit more evil than where they came from. They, the movie says, you keep dancing with the devil one day he gonna follow you home. Oh. And so I liked a lot about this. I like the writing first, and I talk to you about this all the time. I think that the, if it's, if the writing is good, if the writing is great, you have a much better chance of having a film that resonates and it touches people. And I think Coler, whoa, he wrote the heck outta this one. It's, there's, to me, there's a history lesson, there's a cautionary tale and scary cat. Reggie, there's a nightmare and it is all at once. So I think the writing in this was just great.

Kathia Woods: 16:40

I just think he was free because this is his first standalone film since Fruitville Station. And it's not to say that the work he did in those other movies wasn't good, but with Creed, he had to look at the rocky pictures to make sure, to make sense, to have Adonis be in this pocket, right. Then you have with black Panther, the IP is the comic books, right? To make sure that you stay true to the comic books. So it is a lot of, where he had to work with the given material. This is all out of his cranium. And I think he really wanted a break from comic book world and living up to other people's expectations. He wanted to do his own thing and I love that, where he was like, I just wanna make a movie about something that's in my brain and something that has been on my heart and again, celebrates my culture, celebrates my, my people. And I think all of that is really fantastic. You know what I mean? Where you don't have to, where you can show how strong of a creative you are. And I agree with you. I was saying to Ryan, I said, I love, in the cinematography, his attention to detail. Anybody's ever been in the deep south. I'm talking Mississippi, Louisiana, like Alabama. There's a difference between that South and North Carolina. I'm talking about that small, southern deep, that humidity. Woo. There's a reason why some of us are like, sir, I, you want me to be outside to do what? So I can just be sitting, getting bit by bugs. And that is, it's like it takes a different types of tolerance and the way that he captured it. And it's also, I would say it's, that's a certain cadence. Right, because people say New Orleans cadence is different than small town rural cadence. The way people talk, the way people move, the way people interact, right? Like how often have you been if you had a chance to go to that park, right? Because, we always 90 miles per hour city folk, and they tell you, well, you gonna have to slow down. You are in the south now, right? You gonna have to, it's a total, it's a total difference way to spell right. And in your mind you're like, that's, these people don't care that you want something in five minutes. They're gonna give it to you when they're ready to give it to you. I wanna

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 19:07

jump in though, because you were just talking about how this was shot. The way this is shot visually shows a proud people, a determined people a. A purposeful people. And I think that whole combination of closeups, you look at the costume, the set design, the makeup, it clearly says that these guys were not just making a film that entertains, but one which celebrates the richness of our being. And so I want to just shout out some of those people. When you look at Autumn Doral, al, what she did from a syn cinematic perspective, it was I think masterful. Oh,

Kathia Woods: 19:48

I agree. Because you know what? You believe that they're in this environment and this community is the community, even though it's a fictional town. But you can tell that she studied and she understands that there's a certain way that this has to be shot in other people who are from those areas. Can relate. And also to help people who aren't understand why they're moving

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 20:15

the way that they're moving a Absolutely. And then you talked about Ruthie Carter. Those costumes were phenomenal. I, it felt like we were in that time and in fact, to me, the first half of this felt like a period piece the first half until the second half. And they tried to scare the be Jesus Outta Me and Hannah Beachler. So, so we're

Kathia Woods: 20:38

the design the store, like, come on. Those still exist.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 20:45

So we get Academy Award winner Hannah Beachler two Time Academy Award winner Ruthie Carter. We get, I think also Two Time Academy Award winner. I always mess up his name. The, for the Music, Ludwig, The, but how do you pronounce his last name? Renson.

Kathia Woods: 21:02

I gotta look it up. Hold on. Yeah. Lou

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 21:04

would lu. So you get you are getting these like top of the top people. And I want tell you, I think all of them just brought it, yeah. E every last one of them brought it. I guess the other thing that, that I want to mention is that I think that Coler boldly puts everything on display here. He shows the laughter and the tears, the good and the evil the joy and the pain, and you can see it. And it to me goes back to what you were saying a little earlier, that we know these people, we know that even though they were dealing with racism, they were still in the cotton fields working hard. That there still was some joy. We saw the pain, but we still saw the joy. We saw laughter in tears. There's this one scene in the cotton field where, one character is being asked to come along and his wife is working there as well. And it was like, you gonna make a lot of money? And he's like, I ain't going nowhere. I'm gonna stay with my wife. And the wife was looking like, you better go on out there and make that money. It was hilarious. They just did such a good job. And I think that what Coler did is created a conversation with the audience about the connection to music and how it bridges the past and the future. He was real imaginative by showing that from the drums of Africa to the hip hop of today to even some of the cultures from an Asian perspective, he had it in there. And it is very, I thought just very well done the way. Oh, I agree.

Kathia Woods: 22:40

I think that's also a bigger conversation. I tell people. There's always this complexity for us as black people. Why we clinging to Christianity so much? Because it's a religion that was forced upon us, right? And why we speak so negatively upon the spirituality of the ancestors, right? I'm like, who's depiction and whose vision of our original spirituality is it? This idea that we were out here slaughtering people and eating people. That's not our perspective. That doesn't come from our community, that comes from Europeans who used that picture in order to force us into their Christianity. Right? And I'm not saying if you're a Christian, I'm gonna be very clear. You practice whatever religion you wanna practice. Like, I'm not here to say one is better than the other, but we have yet to resolute with the fact that those of us that, that want to. Hearken back to our original spirituality. Right. I was saying, like, people were saying, well, in, in the South, you see people practice that. I said, but it is not officially a tax-exempt religion. It is frowned upon to publicly say that you practice voodoo or whatever it is. Right. It is. And I just wanna It's did you considered, you're considered what's, what You said it earlier. It is part the whole thing that you're dancing with the devil

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 24:05

And the interjection is that in my review I said that Coler was not afraid of celebrating parts of our culture. The mainstream society might frown upon and you hit right upon it. He displays our belief in the spirits and demons. He shows how we would cast spells to keep him away. I believe that simply by showcasing those customs and practices, he declared that they're an asset versus something to be ashamed of or simply demonic. And I think that's a bold statement. He did not shy away from showing that part. So I'm really glad that you mentioned that.

Kathia Woods: 24:37

Oh, 100%. I did too. In my review, I'm like, what do you think all those people are doing? When you go to Brazil and everybody's wearing white and they're all at the beach, they're not in there just to jump into the water'cause they're bored. It's something to do. They're there for a purpose. The ANA are dressed in white. They have the flowers. They're giving an offering to the goddess of the ca manja for protection into the new year for blessings into the two new year. It's very common in Brazil people don't go see psychiatrists like they go here in the United States. They go see the voodoo priestess and still go to church on Sunday. The two are not conflicting. It's very common. For them to work in unison. So I think what he's doing is forcing us to have a conversation to reflect upon that and to stop being shameful of it, because who are the people that are making us feel shameful about where we come from? Do you know what I mean? Absolutely. We're all taking trips to Africa, but are we really leaning into that? You know what I mean? It's very common when people were enslaved or people were sold, that your mother or the mothers would put a protection pouch on their children, on their loved ones. You know what I mean? That is just the ancestors and those to have protection over you. You know what I mean? Absolutely. So I think that is, I hope it opens up a opportunity for us to have more discussion and to really stop being shameful.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 26:10

I think that's exactly what Co Kugler was trying to do. I will say that, and I said this earlier, is that these two movies for me, and I don't think it was for everybody, but for me, they were two different halves. The first part to me was like this period piece where I was learn learning who the people were, figuring out if I liked, which who I liked, if I liked any one of those twins, by the way I was trying to figure it out, but I was like, oh man, it's vibrant. It's showing our culture. It's showing who we are. That second half, oh, there's a scene where I jumped outta my seat. I'm sitting next to one of our fellow critics and he laughs up a storm. He sent me a text message saying, okay. Scary Kat. All of my friends saw me moving and squirming and doing everything in my seat. That second half is a different movie to me. I think he made it work because by laying the foundation of who these people were, when we got to that other part, that scary part, and I won't tell you a lot about it'cause I think you need to go see it for yourself. Ooh girl. I was like, he made me question whether, how we are living as a people, but even if we want to continue living in a particular state, if you get what I mean. So I might

Kathia Woods: 27:29

oh, for sure. I, the other thing I wanna say is I love how smoke and step moved, these are two black men in the segregated south that were not out here bending the knee for nobody. And remember I, Reggie, I wanted to see if you caught that line when he, when Miles Stanton asked him, smoker Sex was in the car with him. And he was like, so what was Chicago like? Right? And he said, and I'm paraphrasing, same thing, just with higher buildings. In other words, this idea of that a lot of people from the south thinking they were gonna go to the north and they were gonna have these freedoms, and he's like, same is just different day. Basically what he was saying. And I myself, wow, I hope people are catching that. You know what I mean? He was like, we went up there looking for these things and I think what the twins were saying, what Ryan was trying to say is they came back home.'cause they're like, at least here we know everybody. They said it. They said, why? Everybody's, why. Everybody's on the, we know how everybody moves and we know what everybody's position is up there is constantly like, it's like double Dutch, but one day this person's on your side, this other person's on your side. So I thought that was really smart.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 28:42

Yeah, it they said specifically we rather deal with the devil that we know.

Kathia Woods: 28:48

And that's so true, but again, these two, when they were even negotiating with the white man for their venue, right. I had to think of the word venue. I was about to say Shaq. No, it's venue. They knew that. Yeah. They still had to look out because this was too, when he's trying to say, oh, the Klan is on the gone, they're like, yeah, we gonna, we wanna do business with you today, but we still we don't trust you. They were ready for whatever. Yeah. He was gonna bring,

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 29:15

They, they were definitely ready for that. I think that Coler really did give us something to, excuse the pun, to ponder. Because when we think about the, our music today what Miles was going through as Sammy, he was struggling between should I use my music for good, which is for God with my father. Or should I use my music for what I'm feeling, which is a little more what she cannery sex, sin all that other stuff. And one of the twins even tells him at one point, dude, you don't want, you don't want, you ain't about this, you don't want this kinda life. You need to go back, use that music with your dad. But that was the thing that was tearing Sammy up, where, how do I use this gift that I'm given? And it, when we look at our, even our music today I even the music we grew up on, I'm not trying to say the music today is worse than the music back then, I don't want to have that argument.'cause we had that argument all the time. And you, the music person, you the person who studies music. So I'm not gonna have that argument, but I really could feel how that battle between. How risk risque I get with my music and how secular I am versus how proud and playful I am with my music. So, I could see that and Michael,

Kathia Woods: 30:44

I think it's still a conversation. We know so many people that knew secular music got their start in their church. You, they're frowned upon when you're not using the gift. When they have bad things happen. That's because you turn to the devil's music. And I'm always like, my comeback for that always has been a Well, how do we know that God didn't give the person the gift to reach your bigger audience? Right? Whereas if you, if we, within the church, you're only reaching church people, but when you are doing secular music, right, not necessarily participating in debauchery, how is your testimony any less when you're reaching a bigger crowd? You know what I mean? And it isn't. And what is the point of being of the church if you're still leading a sinful life? But if you doing something right from your place of earnest and place of decency and really wanting to bring joy to people, but you're living your life for purpose, you're giving back to the community and that, how are you gonna need less of a Christian? So I think that's the conversation that's an ongoing conversation that we're still having today.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 31:46

It's, and the pushback would be is that, that how far that so many of our people who start out of the church and move into sec secular music, they end up getting too caught up in that. And so we it is a questionary tale because we've seen, you've been hipping me to all these different documentaries and when we watch these documentaries of some of our musical legends, you see that the, that. That life grabbed him as opposed to the music grabbing other people. Yeah. So, and

Kathia Woods: 32:19

we can, yeah, and we can also say that some people that stick to just doing gospel music get caught up in the fame too. It's, I don't think necessarily it's a type of music. It's how you handle growing fame, popularity and all that. And if your foundation is shaky. Right. And I think for Sammy, it was like, well, if God gave me this gift, right, why would he want me just to keep it here on in, in this church? Why wouldn't he want me to share it with more people? Do you know what I mean? And I think that's a conversation and also a conversation that we have as parents. You and I've had it, offline. We have to allow our kids to find their own way. That doesn't mean that they're wrong, that doesn't mean they're not off God. Different, doesn't mean better or worse, but we all have the right to have autonomy over our lives and make decisions for ourselves. And if we truly love our children and we have faith in the teachings, we be stood upon them, then we should have faith that they're gonna go through the world and be okay.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 33:23

I, yeah, you and I bounce this one back and forth. I will say maybe we'll have faith that they'll be okay but we do try to tell'em, look, there's a wall in front of you. There is a wall in front of you and we are here to let you know that there's a wall in front of you hoping that you're gonna listen to us. So you don't have to hit the wall. Now we gonna be here once you hit the wall and try to help you. But we don't want to have to say, I told you so I told you not to do that. Right. Your,

Kathia Woods: 33:50

my love is not conditioned upon our kids doing what we think they should do. And I feel like in Sammy's case, his father was basically saying, if you're going to be my son. You have to do what I think you should do. And I don't think that's right. I think for me, I'm speaking for me, Kathe, I don't think that is not love because it either we say we love our children, right? And we don't always have to agree the path that they take. And in some cases we were wrong. In some cases our kids took a different path and it turned out quite right and quite successful for them. So I think that is also. And I get it. You and I have had discussions of we get it where it comes from. Right? We are fearful for our children, especially in that time, right? We're fearful for all the horrible things that can happen to them. We are fearful that they won't have community there to protect them and love them. And even now, like, when we were growing up, you and I are Gen Xers, when our parents were like, get a good job because they knew what it was like not to have security, not that benefits. And here we have an opportunity of access to that and we wanna say, oh, I wanna do something creative. Why would you wanna do something foolish like that? Well, you can have a pension when you can have house insurance, right? So all of these discussions, I feel like. There's no right and wrong, right? No.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 35:04

There's no right. There's

Kathia Woods: 35:05

no right and wrong, but it's an ongoing dance with

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 35:08

us as black people. That's it. It is. And what I wanna say as it relates to the movie is that in this case, Sammy's father is right. You gotta be you have to be careful'cause the devil might follow you home.

Kathia Woods: 35:21

Yes and no. Yes and no way. Uhuh there ain't no yes or no. He was halfway right. Was

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 35:25

it is a yes. He was like, love the way you going. The devil's coming along with you and you, if you going to do that, don't come around here.'cause I don't want the devil up in end.

Kathia Woods: 35:38

He was right or wrong.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 35:39

Yes and no. He was right. Dude was right.

Kathia Woods: 35:42

Yes and no.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 35:43

Whatever. Anyway, so as we talk about what's not to like about this film, there were a couple of things that I won't say I, I disliked, but that. Made me pause. And the first one is I've, which is I already talked about, which is I felt like that it was two films and because I felt that it was two films. So some people, I think the transition might not have been as smooth. I have heard some talk about that. For me, it worked. It worked. But the it does feel like two different films. I could see a whole film on each one of those done. About just the life in Mississippi from the from a period piece perspective about smoke and Stack and what they did and how they went around. But I also could see this other film about vampires and all. I could see a whole film on that as well. I feel

Kathia Woods: 36:33

like he used, do you think I feel like he used a mythology and the vampire, I don't necessarily think of this as a horror film, right? I think he used a mythology of vampires to talk about maybe I'm out here by myself. The wickedness and the hatefulness of racism.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 36:55

You know what I totally feel that I, that's not where I first came from, but I can buy that. I, and I think because I went

Kathia Woods: 37:02

into it like you, I'm thinking like, okay we set in the stage who's who in all of this, right? And then second half of the film, we gonna find out that I thought it was gonna be like, some of our Kim folk ain't skim folk, but we then I was like, oh, Ryan, I'm with you. I see where you doing this, but you like literally saying that they don't like that these two Negroes are up here a little bit too uppity. They're up there walking tall, toting guns, talking to people in a certain way. You know what I mean? Like, he really, like when they were negotiating the fee for the venue, they were not talking to that man like, yes sir. They were talking to that man as equals.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 37:42

No. Did, because I think that's a great take. I think

Kathia Woods: 37:45

that's a, and I'm thinking to myself, so he basically is saying, when, as we give, hopefully by the time you hear this podcast, you'll seen the film when they first meet them folks, right? They're like, well, we wanna come in, we like to partake. They're like nah you wouldn't like this. Right? And then I'm saying to myself, he's saying he don't like the, I'm thinking Ryan is using them to say he don't like the idea of these black folks finding a way to make money, finding a way to have a business, the audacity to have a spot without coming to asking and asking our permission, they're doing their own thing. I,

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 38:25

I could totally see that the way I looked at it was a little bit differently. A just a little bit differently. But I think it's, it. Congruent with what you're saying. The way I looked at it was they were saying that smoking them were saying, oh, we ain't letting these white people up in here.'cause when we let white people up in our stuff, it always messes up our stuff. That's

Kathia Woods: 38:45

true. I mean that they also, like, we gotta, also gotta remember Right, you are 100%. I thought that too. They're like, listen, black and white people didn't mix like that.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 38:53

We not letting you guys up in here because we already know you're gonna mess up our stuff. And they, even when you

Kathia Woods: 38:58

gonna want to take a cut from the money, that's the main part. They're like, not only is it gonna bring the police, you gonna wanna cut into our money. They even talked about, get two partners here. They

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 39:08

even talked about that some where they said, once we let white folks in here and if. One of us looks at the white woman the wrong way, one of us touches. All of a sudden the whole dynamics of having fun, being loose and free and enjoying our people and our culture just goes to pot. It goes by the wayside. So, I, but I do think that your your interpretation is that they're not mutually exclusive. That both of'em can work together. I just looked at it like, nah, we ain't letting these white folks. Or even

Kathia Woods: 39:40

like, when you think about it, remember we didn't talk about Hailey's character place, Mary, but she came in, they were like, nah, girl. Like we know. They're like, but you know me. They're like, we know you, but you can't, girl. You might, but your complexion is throwing off the whole situation. You got to go. Yeah. We know you, but them folks should the clan, whoever come through here, they're gonna be like. That's not gonna fly, so you can't come through. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I love how this movie, speaking of Haley Feld has helped her lean in and embrace her heritage.'cause a lot of people don't know that she's got black DNA in her'cause I know. Some black folks are going like, why is this white lady Harper white, this white lady in this movie? Because this is, she just like Mary has black heritage in her. She has black, on her mother's side, she's Filipino. And on her mother's side her grandfather was black. So this allowed her to have a conversation within her family, a little bit out like Rebecca did with passing. To lean in and be like, well, why have we shied away from this? And for her to have some answers. And I think that's beautiful. And I think that shows a lot about Hailey, who she's as a person because, and also shows Ryan how intentional he could have just hired any white lady, right? He made

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 41:06

sure. He thought about that. He

Kathia Woods: 41:07

thought about all of that. He thought about that because we don't understand, just like I, you know how we people, I'm 100% African, sir. The moment we left the continent and we had our involuntary migration, not all of us ceased to be 100% black. Some of us just have more melanin than others. But it's been a long time since you, especially the way we interact and mix, since you were 100% African.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 41:34

Yeah no, no doubt. So there are two other things that I want to points I wanna make before we wrap it up. And I, and this is related to my scary cat nature, I can't even lie to you. I was a bit confused as to what Twin was loving, what woman was and the reason I was, because there were a couple of times in the film where I'm covering my eyes because I was so scared. I was like, is smoke with Mary? Is I, so I got, I did get a little bit confused, but that's just on me'cause I'm just a scary cat. Right. And you will hear Katia from some of our fellow critics, you should have seen Reggie in the theater. They were, I got text messages from them saying. Dude, you are definitely a scary catt. What's up with

Kathia Woods: 42:21

that? So we're not, so when Jordan Peel's hymn drops, you not gonna be in there. You just gonna be in there like, I don't think I'm

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 42:26

gonna watch. I don't even think I'm gonna watch it. And then the last thing that I wanna mention is I am, I think Ryan did this because he's been in the Marvel franchise, but I am not, I repeat, I am not a fan of the after credit, mid credit continuation. I am just not a fan of it. And they do it two times here, which absolutely irks me. I don't like it. However, the first time actually makes a little sense for two reasons. Number one, it's, there's a surprise. So makes a little sense. But number two. Is it gave us a opportunity to see the names of the phenomenal people, like a Hannah Beachler or Ruthie Carter before we see that scene. And I'm looking at that. Oh, Ruth did this. Oh. Oh, Hannah did that. So I'm okay with that first one, but that second one, come on. I just want you to say could we just stop that? I like my movies to just go from beginning to end. Just stop it. So in my rating is out of a four, four scale and I gave it a 3.5 out of four reels. Not because it's not a four, just because it's scared. The bejesus outta me. I took a half off. I just took a half off because I'm like, YIIA.

Kathia Woods: 43:44

This was not that bad.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 43:46

Okay. It

Kathia Woods: 43:47

was not that bad. Now I wonder if was a scene, hold on next man. Hold your hand on,

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 43:52

hold on. You saying it wasn't that bad? There was a scene where somebody was biting somebody on the neck and I felt like. I was being bit on the neck. You didn't think it was that bad. That's just you. I'm just saying I couldn't sleep. I did not get a good night's sleep. Those vampires just scared.

Kathia Woods: 44:12

You did. You had your little garlic necklace. You were in there. I was like, woo. Donna, come in the house. Don't invite nobody in.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 44:18

Donna was gone. I was asking my daughter, should she come in the room and sleep in the room with me because I was scared. Uhuh. No. You saying one that day,

Kathia Woods: 44:27

Were you in there? Were you saying like, don't invite nobody, nobody knew. Come in the house if I don't know you, and if you constantly asking me to invite you in, invite,

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 44:37

I put some blood across the top of the threshold. Put some on the bottom. Did that

Kathia Woods: 44:41

make me think of the HBO O show, where he was like, invite me in.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 44:44

No. So, so I love this movie though. I might even possibly could get myself to watch it again. It was really good. Ryan Cougar wrote something fantastic and these actors really delivered on screen. This is a film that people, I hope, go see that first weekend, and it is a film that will not, sometimes when we get these films early in the year, we gotta go back. We forget about them. This is one of those that, that people will not forget. I loved it. I'll leave that. I gave

Kathia Woods: 45:16

it a four out of five. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I loved this for Ryan and it goes to show what an amazing filmmaker is and I'm with him like, he's gonna make Black Panther three, but I'm like, I'm my man. Do some other stuff. Let him cook. Let him use his creativity to do some other stuff. Let Black Panther three be the last Black Panther that he makes, and then hand it off to somebody else and let him enjoy. And be creative, like I do not want him to be the black James Gunton. Well, all we getting outta him are superhero movies.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 45:50

You're not.'cause that's not what he's gonna do is that Brock Heimer and them get to keep doing these transformers or whatever, whoever that is of doing these Transformers 15 or whatever. No. Ride that horse and make your money. I was in an interview one time with Blair Underwood and I asked him what was his pet project and he said, he told me a couple of things that he wanted to do and then he looked at me. He said, but I gotta do some of the things I need to do. To be able to do some of the stuff that I want to do. So Ryan ride the Marvel train and do all that other stuff because he's gonna make enough money that he can do those things. So no, I don't even want anybody putting their hands on Black Panther, Ryan, keep that Black Panther for you. I don't agree with Katya, whatever,

Kathia Woods: 46:38

but I do think, he is very thoughtful. And also I love the fact that he, I think, we get on black filmmakers on how they, no, just filmmakers, how they don't, they give women nothing to do and he gives, I love the fact that you have these two different love interests and they're different type of women, but they're both being shot and they're both being loved and they're both being cared for.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 47:01

I thought all the women in this film had a impact on the film. Is that you got some, Hailey. You have ney, you have Jamie and then the the woman who would tell her husband to go out and get the car. What are you doing? Do not tell people to go tell, but I understood that'cause she wanted to protect her daughter. But you know, once you sent your husband out there anyway I felt that this was just a well-rounded film and it will not be forgotten when we get to, to award season, I think.

Kathia Woods: 47:37

No, and I definitely agree with you. This was a good one.'cause it is dry here with black films. This here y'all we got about three. This is one of three.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 47:46

Well,

Kathia Woods: 47:46

so I'm just letting y'all know like we got this, we got him and we have Is Goddess that's it. There're, I'm sorry. And Spike Lee's films. So we got four black films. So do with that at what you would like to do with that.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 48:02

Well, well, that's it. That, that's gonna be our show for this week. You see, we had a lot to talk about with this movie Center. Ho Centers hope that you go out and check it out. I'm Reggie Ponder, the real critic. You can find me on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. Oh and on Blue Sky, which I think I even made one post just recently, so you could find me at the real critic. And that's REEL Kathia. Where can they find you?

Kathia Woods: 48:29

They can find me on Instagram. Facebook, blue Sky at like of Apartheid Boys app and TikTok at everywhere. It's Kathia_ wood. Somebody took my Moniker on TikTok, so it's Kathia1970 on TikTok we be having Oh, wow. Time on TikTok. I was like who's the woods over there? But it is what it's,

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 48:51

What's your what's the latest article that you have out that people can check out as well?

Kathia Woods: 48:54

You can read my Sinners review at the Sacramento Observer, which will be in hard body this week as well. It's already up online. My interview with Ryan Coogler and Michael B. Jordan is in today's issue of the Tribune, and it is also up online. I we did ours audio because Ryan was in the car, but we made it work.

Reggie Ponder, The Reel Critic: 49:17

Well, that's our show. as you can see we had a lot of fun. We got two critics, two opinions, but one mission where dialogue engages. This is the movies educates, entertains, and occasionally escalates. We will see you guys next time.