Know Thyself

The ancient maxim “Know thyself” is certainly timeless—but what does it really look like in everyday life? In this episode, we're joined by our guest Laurie Blanchard to explore self-awareness not as a philosophical idea, but as a lived practice that evolves over decades and through every chapter of our lives.

Together with Laurie, we dig into the real, sometimes messy journey of personal growth—sharing stories, lessons, and tactics that help us stay grounded, reflective, and authentic. Laurie reminds us that self-awareness isn’t a single moment of clarity—it’s an ongoing process of becoming who we truly are.

We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Thanks for listening,

Mike

Transcript

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​[00:00:00] 

Welcome to Maxim EQ, where we explore the commonsensical through individual interpretation. At a time when the profound is too often reduced to cheap memes and goofy bumper stickers, we head in the opposite direction, digging deeper to examine the commonalities and differences in our perceptions around a particular adage.

 In each episode, we'll discuss our guest's take on a thought provoking maxim designed to promote self reflection and personal growth, for us, but hopefully for you as well. Today's guest is an old friend and she's a magazine publisher, musician, artist, spiritual seeker. She's loved and known by many in the greater Sacramento, California area.

And her name is Laurie Anne Blanchard. She joins us today to discuss the timeless wisdom of the old Maxim, Know Thyself, and to share a little bit about how it shaped her personal and professional journey. So let's get started. We certainly hope you enjoy the conversation. Now, Maxim EQ with Sam Wahl and me, [00:01:00] Mike Baumer. 

Sam: So we're, we're episode five. This is exciting. It says, I don't know why five feels, five feels good to you. Exciting to me. Yeah. Like we've 

Mike: crossed over some, some mile marker. 

Sam: Yeah, exactly. 

Our guest today. I'm super excited about this, man. This is an old friend of mine. So this friendship goes back to, I'm going to say 1989. Uh, Sacramento, California. Uh, I'm in a band. We're a community of musicians. Lorianne, back then was Lorianne Barnes. by marriage now is Lorianne Blanchard.

 Um, She's an amazing woman. [00:02:00] She's a publisher. She's a musician. She's an artist, a really talented painter. She's a spiritual seeker by self definition, passionate about creativity, personal transformation, and self knowledge. I mean, this is kind of her ethos. She's the founder of a magazine, a new magazine called Spirited Soul.

A publication dedicated to spirituality, creativity, and wellness, uh, by her own description. But she's a firm believer in the power of storytelling. As long as I've known her, she's a creative, you know, very inspiring person. Fascinated by the intersection of ancient wisdom and modern insight. and she's been exploring themes like this throughout her entire life, which is why we allowed her.

I was gonna say, she sounds like a perfect guest for Maxim eq. Yeah. Why We allowed her to choose. This is the first time of all of our guests that they have, she did not respond to a list of choices like most of our guests do. She brought her own. Yeah. Uh, so today she joins us to discuss [00:03:00] the timeless wisdom of know thyself.

Yeah, and she's gonna have hopefully a lot to say about how that has shaped her personal journey. this is also our first time observing a classic, uh, Maxim. And when I say classic, I mean, pre Christ era, ancient Greek,

Yeah. We went from kind of construct your own to some twists on accepted adages or maxims to going straight to.

the Mount Olympus of Maxims, right? That's right. 

Sam: Absolutely. 

Mike: Almost literally. And I say that as somebody who is totally ancient Greek history ignorant. 

Sam: Hey Laurieanne....Welcome! ,

I already had the occasion to kind of deliver a little bit of an introduction. I wouldn't mind kind of just moving right into the Maxim that you chose and give us a little personal, uh, [00:04:00] background as to why you requested know thyself the Maxim that we're going to discuss today.

Laurie: Well, everything about what's happening in my life right now comes back to that phrase. And I have been doing an enormous amount of, self reflection and looking into patterns that don't serve me anymore, um, character defects, if you will, things that are blocks because a lot of times people are like, well, my life isn't everything that I'd hoped it would be.

Or I wish that my life was going in a certain direction or why are there abundance blocks or why are there, uh, why are my relationships challenged or whatever. Everything's external, right? and so there's a lot of blame that happens. Uh, a lot of, people going no contact with other people but people don't do an enormous amount of looking internally and figuring out where am I getting in my own way?

[00:05:00] And, I didn't even realize how important all this was. Myself, even though I've been doing a lot of spiritual work for decades. I didn't really understand How much of it really all comes down to what's going on inside? It and it's amazing to me to even say that as someone who meditated for decades to not realize how much of my problems were my own making and Not take responsibility not clean up my side of the street, you know You leave collateral damage behind me and then blame others.

So that's kind of been

Sam: Hmm.

Laurie: thing lately for me is, is recognizing my own part and for good or ill, you know, um, I, I like myself very much. I enjoy my own company, but I'm also starting to try to take responsibility for and acknowledge how I can improve. [00:06:00] And what's interesting is 

the more I go inwards and really look at these things, the better my life gets, the happier I am, the better my relationships are. and there's, it's, it's literally like a lifelong journey. The more you do it, the better your life gets, the more you want to do it. And I think, the trick is, is to not let it turn into egoism, you know, and not just go down a rabbit hole with that.

But I grew up in a very, um, fundamentalist Christian background. And you met my parents, lovely, lovely, kind people, just salt of the earth would say, would save anybody took people in. But one of the things that I recognize now is that that background did not in any way encourage or support self reflection.

You just gave it to God. You gave your problem to God, and you just shut up, and you give it to God and the church elders. And the church elders were always men. [00:07:00] There'd be the aunties in the church, and no young women wanted to go to the church elder to talk about her, you know, confusion over sexuality or over Anything like that.

So you really, you had no one to talk to and you didn't do a lot of self reflection because you're supposed to just give it to God. That's where you were supposed to find the answers. And I remember talking to my mom about this at one point, cause you know, the whole self help thing really started kicking off in the seventies and eighties.

And I remember talking to my mom and saying, well, what about this book about, you know, um, self, you know, self, and she was just like,you know, you need to be very careful about who you're taking advice from. And I do get discernment's important, but you know, the people in the church were repelled by the idea of self help or self awareness 

Sam: Well, let's pause right there because, I was just wrapping my head around the fact this morning, when I did my little cursory search on know [00:08:00] thyself and to figure out what the internet thought about that. Um, but, you know, wrapping my head around the fact that this is a, this is a pre monotheistic. philosophical, guideline.

Laurie: yes, yes, it is.

Sam: you know, and, and relationship to God, uh, or

Laurie: God's

Sam: uh, this, that I think it's my impression that in that classic Kind of period of human development,we to be in a general sense, um, a little more self aware and a little more kind of self reliant in terms of relation with gods or with source, and in fact,the Cicero version of kind of the understanding of this links together what he cited [00:09:00] as three traditional parts of wisdom. those being ethics, physics, and logic, each a function of self knowledge. And I find that really interesting that even, even during the early Stoic era you know, pre Christ. human philosophical, development that we would add knowledge of, of physics with relation to thyself, as one of the three key points of knowledge.

Go ahead, Mike.

Mike: I have a question for Lorianne, which is how did you start? that transition from being in an environment where introspection and reflection wasn't a part of the culture to starting to do that, what triggered you to start making that transition because I've heard you say a couple of times already that that introspection and reflection is a really, really big part [00:10:00] of your experience right

Laurie: well, you know, like in, in the church we were told to pray, but praying, we weren't told to listen and be quiet a lot, you know, like they weren't big on the meditation part of the prayer. It was just like, you know, you go to God with your problems and then, you know, you I had a cousin who was, um, a hippie and she came to the farm that I grew up on and she taught me how to meditate.

And so I was young, I was like 14 when I first started meditating and I really, I used to go out in nature and I just sit by the river and meditate like I dug it. And I, but you know, so that, I would say that was like the beginning kernel of it. But, Really, you know, there was a lot of party years where it would be like moving forward and then sliding back and then moving forward and then sliding back.

I went to Nepal for a year when I was 24. That was, um, a big [00:11:00] part of it because there were so many less people there. Distractions from the Western world and the distractions were more just sensory overload from a different culture, but, um, absorbing that the different culture and that was a big part of opening my eyes to there's, you know, a thousand paths to God or the source and it doesn't need to just be this one way.

Mike: 

Sam: can I ask you what, what were you seeking or looking for, or what were you experiencing, practicing meditation in those younger years prior to, let's say going to Nepal and, What was,

Mike: Yeah. Like what experience were you getting from it in those earlier, stages of

Laurie: think I was always looking for some kind of, I always felt different. I, you know, like, I, I don't want to say that everybody doesn't feel different. I think that the human condition is one of, at times of just, we're all alone in, in [00:12:00] our inner world, but I grew up with people that their frame of reference so often felt different than mine.

that I think I was looking for trying to feel either like them and hoping I'd meditate myself into being like them or be okay with and connect with God more. So I would be happy with who I was. I, I had a lot of emotional, um, unhappiness as a, as a child and a teen and for various reasons we don't need to go into.

And I feel like, I think I was trying to find some kind of emotional stability, even at a young age, and I thought that maybe the, you know, the meditation could help me. 

Mike: Do you think that you were like conscious of that or was it just that you were looking for something and meditation might be a tool, in

Laurie: I think part of it was, and this is where it's going to get a little woo woo, um, So, like I said, four or five generations in the church, but my great, my great grandfather was clairvoyant, my grandmother was clairvoyant, my mom was clairvoyant. [00:13:00] However, they, it was called the family gift, it was the family secret, nobody talked about it, you keep that shit to yourself, because you don't want to get kicked out of the church.

And so you, you're, it's okay.

Like when I was in Nepal, I couldn't afford to call home, but I'd miss my mom really, really bad.

So I would meditate on mom. Call me, call me, call me, call me. And the mom would call me. She's like, everything. Okay. What's going on? You know, like she knew like we could do that, 

Sam: I just find that really fascinating. I mean, you, you said something earlier, and I'm not, totally clear as to what you were making reference to, but you said something about how experientially we are, you know, you know, we are alone in our bodies, and when I first started meditating prior to my understanding exactly what it was, I was trying to experience other than quieting my mind. but I, I didn't at the time realize, whereas now I think I definitely feel differently. Um, but I didn't realize [00:14:00] that that the reason that I was trying to quiet my mind, my brain was so that I could space to share and receive source. And, and to experience in my body, what was happening to me and, and with me spiritually, um, In the parts of me that were connected to spirit outside of my body. and I'm a person that believes that all human beings have, if you want to

Laurie: Absolutely.

Sam: capabilities. Um, it's just a matter of,your level of frequency and vibration. And, you know, I don't really have the language to talk about it from experience because I haven't been there.

But, you know, my understanding is, once you can kind of, Somehow step outside of the [00:15:00] traffic of your brain and your body, uh, and all of that kinetic energy, uh, then there's a whole nother dimension, several dimensions of traffic and that traffic is, is shared sources, you know, and I like to think romantically speaking that, the path to wisdom, um, is,

Laurie: More of that.

Sam: is, listening.

Laurie: More of that.

Sam: know what I mean? And, and share and sharing, which to me is the antithesis or counter to aloneness, because, you know, in source we are together in sort of the same way that tree roots and mycelium are, are together. we are conduits of, of wisdom and conduits of, of love and spirit. 

Laurie: I didn't even know, I didn't even know that you could calm your mind with meditation. That wasn't even like, that didn't even come till later. It was exact opposite for me because for me, I was doing it so that I felt less alone. Right. [00:16:00] And, and only later did I learn that it was going to be a benefit to me, to help me calm my mind or the monkey brain, as they say, you know, like to just

Sam: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that fascinating? 

I want to, I want to talk further about, from a family that identifies with a clairvoyant gift. how has that played into, um, I mean, where do you go from there? I guess is what I'm

Laurie: You know, it was so normalized within the family, within the family. It's completely normalized, you know, my brother was in a car wreck and my mom answered the phone and said, are you okay that she answered the phone? Are you okay? And then he said, I'm okay. We're going in the ambulance. And then she met him at the hospital.

Like there's four hospitals in Sacramento that they could have easily gone to. She was there like she just knew right where to go. 

But it was very normalized, but it was also very on the DL. You just don't discuss it. It's like Fight Club. You just don't talk about it outside of the family. especially back then, it would [00:17:00] cost everybody in the church their positions.

I had ministers, you know, they couldn't talk about it. Oh, 

Sam: Mike, I noticed you making a bunch of notes. What you got?

Mike: Well, taking us back to this transition from where you started getting involved with some level of meditation. And when you said to Sam that the idea that it could also assist in clearing your head wasn't even like on the menu or wasn't even a consideration necessarily when you started with it.

Yeah. But it sounds like that it might be a part

Laurie: God, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Mike: you in that practice. Yeah, exactly. So how did you go from that wasn't, one of the original things that you even associated it with to now that's become the norm to, and we don't necessarily have to answer this all in one long thread, but to, maybe creating that space to become more introspective and reflect and have that feed into this, evolution of knowing [00:18:00] yourself better.

Laurie: I would say I had a spiritual, awakening probably in about 2018. So up until that time I was, just living my life, you know, just trying to be a good step mom to three kids and keep a good job and take care of my parents as well as I could. They were aging. And then things really sped up. Now it was about 2016 is it when it, it started getting off the rails.

I was sandwiched generation. I have kids that I'm trying to keep out of trouble and they were a handful. And then I had my mom and my dad who they ended up living into their late nineties and I was their caregiver. So the pressure just got tighter and harder and the job got harder. I was in a really intense tech sales job.

So this, all these pressures started happening. So I had also been in a bad car wreck and I had developed, um, uh, nerve condition from the car wreck in my [00:19:00] neck. So I was in chronic pain. So the medicine they were prescribing for me was quite intense. I was on daily Vicodin and also on, yeah, exactly for a long time.

And also, um, gabapentin. And so they had me on these cocktails of pills to help with the nerve pain so I could just live my life. Right. So I could function. 

Mike: gosh. Oh. 

Laurie: happened where my dad got put on hospice. Okay. And my uncle who had helped raise me was dying 

And then I get a phone call from my cousin that my, my uncle's passing and he wants to hear my voice. Like, this is all, right? And I go home. It was a very quiet ride home We're both just distraught. And I get home and I'm like and this was the big, this was the moment, this was the moment.

It was like a, out of bottom comes the beginning of the top. I went, I have control over nothing externally. All my belief in external control is an illusion. All I can control is myself. And I came in and I told Mike, this happened and this happened and this happened. I'm [00:20:00] going off of all the pills. I'm never taking another pill other than an ibuprofen unless I absolutely have to.

And I, I hope I can do this at home. So please just help me, keep an eye on me. It gets bad, we can go to ER, but I'm going to try to do this myself. And I did. And then I went and sat in front of a waterfall, because the, your serotonin and your dopamine is like, when you've been on meds like that for that long, you know, it takes weeks to try to just get back up to any kind of idea of normal. So I went and sat in front of a waterfall for two days. I have a friend who has a waterfall on her property. And I just sat, I thought I need to like raise my vibe physically, mentally, spiritually, to be able to face, take care of my dad as he passes.

We're about a month out. And so then I did that and got through my dad's passing, which was a beautiful experience. I'm so grateful I was there with him. It was life changing for, and relationship changing. and then I am coming out of this and I'm like, I have to make some real changes. Like, so I've tried this this isn't working. for me anymore.

I've tried this, this isn't working. I'm going to get resources. [00:21:00] So I started with Reiki and I got Reiki and it helped a lot and then I went, I'm going to study Reiki. So then I studied Reiki and that helped a lot. And then a friend of mine said, she had a Qigong master in New York who was going to be doing a class on Qigong.

And she said, why don't you come out, I'm going to pay your way out and he's going to gift you the class because they were very dear friends and he'd known about me for years. And I got to attend this 10 days session with a master, Robert Pang. And I learned a meditation from Master Robert Pang. That was the first time, I had been, I had been meditating, but it, As I even got older, the noise in my head just got worse and worse and worse. And my ADD just got worse. So I was really struggling with being able to have silence or any kind of peace. It was just a battle to get to that point where you weren't just fighting it. And Robert Pang taught me this meditation called connecting the universe. And it literally gives your mind [00:22:00] something to do while you're meditating. And, and what it does is it fools your mind into thinking that you're not meditating. And then all of a sudden you hit this point where all of a sudden You're you're, no longer fighting your mind. you're in meditation. And I, I, when I hit that zone of silence, it's like a cone of peace, 

Mike: Amazing. 

Laurie: everything calmed down, 

Mike: Okay.

Laurie: everything gets quiet.

Mike: And that point, that's when it first worked for me. 

so when that space was created, finally, right. what came in and by what came in, it's like, Hey, dumbass, I just told you I created a space. So there was nothing in there. Right. But what I mean by that is, did it create some opportunity for some other clarity to come in as a result, that was a big part of. I'm assuming progress that you've made in the last few years since

Laurie: So yes,

Sam: I kind of want to know the same thing. Like, was there some sort of a download or did, did you connect to something that you experienced? Go ahead. Yep.

Laurie: So multiple things. One, first of [00:23:00] all, it gave me peace in a really, really troubled time. And, and as a beginning of peace, because I didn't know a lot of it in my life up until that started. Okay. It's the beginning. It wasn't 100%. I'm still there's things that have led me to get closer and closer to peace of mind, including sobriety, which we can discuss later, but It, it gave me peace of mind 

I was actually going to make a remark earlier. I'm a big fan of Gabor Mate. Uh, I, I recently read the myth of normal, which, It seems to make reference to like nearly every single time we talk about a Maxim now, I'm like, somehow I find relevance to a couple of these [00:24:00] books that I've been reading and obsessed with, but, um, the freedom that he speaks about literally is, is from our unconscious, emotions from our trauma, there are different methods by which you can, therapeutically work through that, you know, are you familiar with IFS? internal family systems therapy. 

they call it parts work. So it's more about having conversation with yourself and examining your internal narrative. But, from a perspective where, Yourself is a community of selves is a community of parts that is, kind of segmented by roles, you know, and a part of you, for example, let's say,uh, if you were ever abused or, uh, mistreated as a child, whatever, that there was a part of you at that period of your experience that kind of started to protect you or started to steer you and in a different direction in order to divert your attention or [00:25:00] whatever. And then, if you never really kind of went back and reconciled with that part of you and said, Hey, you know what, Um, look, I'm healing. I'm no longer being abused. I'm no longer in danger. I don't need this part of me. I don't need you to be in this role anymore. Let's find a way to refocus your 

I understand. Yeah. Yeah. 

Sam: you 

whatever assists you to administer healing and administer understanding and, even some, pragmatic self management skills with regard to how you allow yourself to speak to yourself without prejudice 

I really do believe that the only path to wisdom is, is truly learning about and embodying unconditional love.

Laurie: if you're using unconditional love and understanding and curiosity 

Sam clone: and wonder and 

Sam: openness, as your primary filter, um, you're not going to have to have these prolonged internal dialogues about, how, [00:26:00] and why am I not respecting possibilities for myself enough to actually receive them?

Mike: I feel like a lot of the stuff that we've been talking about so far is primarily internally based, I'm one to reflect for sure. But where I've gotten some of the most value in getting closer to knowing myself, if not, you know, entirely is. I'll call it for now, third

Laurie: Yeah Yeah, yeah

Mike: right? 

Laurie: or holding up a mirror and going you're being an asshole

Mike: Totally. Right. so the easy teed up ones could come in the form of, uh, a spouse, a friend, a coworker, a child, or take it a step further, a little bit more objectively, a therapist, and all of those are tools in my toolbox to getting to know myself a little bit better and one of the key ingredients was breaking down some of my reflex to

be 

Laurie: That's a huge one, right? That is so 

Mike: Of

course.

Laurie: huge real [00:27:00] learning happens when we shut up and go let me let me pause and think about that, 

Mike: absolutely. And I think that it was at level two challenge, right? Level one challenge was I'm making a conscious decision to engage with an objective third party. Let's say for example, a therapist. And so I'm going into that relationship and that interaction seeking, visibility into visibility into my own blind spots.

And you'd mentioned patterns earlier in the conversation, right? So I'm making a conscious decision to go do that. Some Of the other relationships that I'm in, whether they're in an office environment, my spouse, my stepchildren, those become a little bit touchier, right? That is not a proactive seeking of that input the way I might want to. If I'm going to pay a therapist to help me in that process. So here's where I'm going with this. big moment that finally clicked for me because I grew up very defensive, like really defensive. And I love my better half more than [00:28:00] anything else in the world.

And it finally hit me one day, and I'm not saying I've perfected it by any means. So I'll be curious to know what your, both of your experiences are with this. I stopped in my tracks and I said, wait a second, dude, if you fundamentally respect this person and love this person and are you know, values wise, intellectually, emotionally.

in sync with them for the most part, is it that you're so reflexively defensive when they're saying something that feels critical or might even be just constructive feedback? And it was amazing to me. It was like, all of a sudden, this isn't a person that I'm diametrically misaligned with it,

Laurie: right?

Mike: So why is it that I'm so quick to be defensive when it comes to getting feedback from the person that I'm most closely aligned with in most other aspects of my life? And that was like a huge thing. It doesn't mean that the [00:29:00] reflex isn't still there, but Sam and I've had conversations similar to this in the past, which is the reflex is still there, but I'm finally learning how to not.

React to it in real

Laurie: Yes.

Mike: and to give it value in real time, but rather give myself the opportunity to try to process that feedback, not only objectively, but actually subjectively coming from someone that I'm heavily invested in, So what's yeah, can I ask you what both of your experiences are with

Laurie: Great topic. This is a

Mike: to

Laurie: great topic.

Mike: If I may, I just want to, just because it's, I feel like that's extrapolating on exactly where I just was not long

Mm

Sam: I'll keep this brief. Uh, but my reaction to that is, it's literally what we would refer to, uh, as a habit or whatever, but like a part of yourself, again, that is. That is locked into a role that is responding

Mike: Mm.

Sam: that traumatized you at an early age of development and and you [00:30:00] just never did the work to go back and

Mike: Yes. Yeah. 

It's like that feedback had a direct connect to that unresolved, part of your character. Yeah.

Sam: just, just to take the time and space, I mean, outside of wuwu altogether, like, you know, even in a, in a mild meditative sense, literally just to be thoughtful and mindful in your own quiet time, you know, to pragmatically have a conversation. that conversation and make time for that with yourself and just say, Hey, you know what?

Like I see fault in this.

Mike: Yeah.

Sam: let me tell you something, Mike, I'm no longer, I am no longer beholden or needing a relationship with this part of myself. And just to kind of bring that into your consciousness and say it out loud, you know, that's what mantra is for. Mantra is just is is giving real time and space to a thought that you know is valuable or important and saying it out loud and witnessing it.

So you're just giving yourself witness to that and just saying like, you [00:31:00] know, that no longer is necessary for me. It doesn't have a place in this relationship, especially, you know what I mean? And I, I just, I need that part of myself to just feel loved and safe and know that it no longer needs to come to my defense

Mike: Yeah. Which is amazing because the irony of it then is that. That feedback or that criticism that you had the knee jerk reaction to being defensive to Is actually helping point you in the direction to

Laurie: Well, here's the thing too.

Mike: is that

Laurie: When you have that knee jerk reaction, that's probably the thing you need to look at. And that's the hardest, that's the hardest thing to come to terms with I. I have been really working on resentment and recognizing resentment and what a poison it is. And I'm gonna talk to you guys in a second about this too, because it's so important.

'cause it comes back to something Sam said, like at the very beginning. From Cicero, but one of the things about that is, is that we have an avatar that we've [00:32:00] created of how we want to be perceived. And there is nobody that we have a, even though you are in such alignment and get along so well with your, your person, you still want them to see you as the best version of yourself that you want to believe you are.

And so when they can point out. Some things and who better to point it out than the literal person who's breathing.

Mike: other they

Laurie: No,

Mike: better than anyone

Laurie: right,

Mike: why would

Laurie: right.

Mike: that input?

Laurie: And, and it's, it's this natural thing that happens where You want to be perceived as your best and you actually do want that person to help you be the best person But you don't want them to do it in a way that hurts your precious little feelings It hurts our heart when someone that we love says those things to us.

And I'm really working on this I just had this happen recently with my Mike and one of the things that in so I'm in recovery and one of the things that we learn in step [00:33:00] work is that You A, resentments are toxic and they're poison and you have to just like pull them out by the roots and love them and release them and do whatever you gotta do, but you gotta get the resentment out.

And that is, that will kill a relationship faster than anything is resentment. And the, and the other thing is that, pause. this has been life changing for me. When I feel that feeling come, and you know it, you felt it, it comes up in your chest, right? It's like, when someone hurts you, it might hit you in the stomach first, but physiologically, you're going to feel this thing happen, and it kind of comes up, and you feel it go all the way up, right even into your head.

And sometimes it happens so fast that words are coming out of your mouth before you even realize they're coming out, but it starts in your chest. And I think it's because it hurts our heart. And I feel like if you can feel that feeling and know, okay, that was a wound, I need, I hit a pause button. And what I've been doing when, when that happens [00:34:00] is I'll be like, thank you for, thank you for that.

I'm sure that wasn't easy for you to tell me I'm feeling vulnerable right now. So I'm going to take a pause. I'm going to take a 10 minutes. 15 minutes, I'm going to go process what you just said and think about it. And then I'm going to come back and if I feel up to it, then can we have this conversation then?

If I'm still feeling this vulnerable that I might resent and lash out when I really don't want to. Let's move this, let's put a pin in it, and we'll talk about it tomorrow. I may need to sleep on what you just said. it's valid, I am grateful for your input, I've now got to get, I've got to self regulate the emotions that this is stirring up inside me, and I don't want to take it out on you.

And I, you don't have to go on and on like that. Like, I got it down to the point, I just, I was like, babe, I need a pause, I'm gonna go meditate, I'll be back. But that's what's going on inside.

Sam: I love, I love the irony in, this as, as human beings. I love the irony that the only space in [00:35:00] which, this, elevated level of relationship is even possible is where there's been an investment in unconditional love and, uh, mutual respect and all that stuff. So you've, you've created this space, uh, that's taken an enormous amount of investment. and then that's what makes the sensitivity and the vulnerability possible, you know, and then you still allow that old. goofy

Laurie: It's still, yeah, it's a,

Sam: and, and, and,

Mike: yeah,

Sam: a role in that space. You know what I mean? and it's, it's fun to look at it that way. Cause it's fun to giggle at that

Mike: yeah.

Sam: that's real.

You know what I

Mike: But your point, but I think you guys have both touched on this. It's because it really touched a nerve. And I think to your point, it touched an unresolved

Laurie: yeah, yeah.

Mike: So.

Sam: sure, but it wouldn't have come up you not been 25 years in relationship with this beautiful woman who you've shared everything with

Mike: Mm hmm.

Laurie: [00:36:00] Anybody.

Sam: Anything else in the world, you know what I mean? And, and therefore you are ultimately vulnerable next to her, with her, around her and, so anything that's unresolved in you is more easily going to boil to the surface in that context

Mike: Yeah. Yeah.

Sam: know,

Mike: And that's why I wanted to ask, and I think I just got some of the answer, but what role that component plays in a suite of things that you've used to To get to know yourself better, right? kind of taking it back to that. there's introspection. There could be meditation.

There can be how things are reflected back to you by people that you love and trust and respect. So are there more ingredients that I'm missing? Like, what are some of the other ingredients in your know thyself stew, Laurieann. [00:37:00] 

Laurie: I, I think, you know, shadow work is a big thing, right? I don't, that would be the next thing Is actually consciously back to Sam's point about the integration and you've got these parts, but you don't know about some of it until you dig in and you actually start journaling. I think journaling is really key and 

What I started doing is I started rather than just having notebooks and then they get scattered around the house. You know, back in our musician days, Sam, like, you know, we would have sketchbooks all over the hat little notebooks over the house with song lyrics here or there or whatever.

And then you can't find it. And you're like, Oh my God, that was a great song. And you're tearing the house apart. So, when I really started my spiritual journey, like when things start really getting serious after the Qigong, um, and then I studied tarot for about three years because that was a really great way to get to know yourself better and understand yourself is, is through archetypes and Carl Jung and all that.

I started getting into journaling, as [00:38:00] a way to kind of process all these things I was taking in and I found that I couldn't just use regular notebooks. So I would get these hard bound notebooks that look like an actual book and I take it more serious this way. It's. It's not just a little spiral ring thing that you could tear a piece of paper out.

If you want to write down your list to go to the grocery store, it's a book. So that allowed me to imbue it with some sacredness and with some respect for myself.

Sam: you were bringing respect and reverence to your ideas, thoughts, and,

Laurie: Yeah. And so

And, and so that I would say I started really journaling about six, eight years ago and I've got now a stack of these hard bound books and it's um, that's been a really wonderful thing when I go back and read stuff and I want to be clear, I'm not keeping a diary.

So I will bring in real world stuff [00:39:00] here or there just to kind of give it some context. but it's generally writing down epiphanies, writing down resources, writing down. Dreams, goals, ambitions, um, spiritual resources, thoughts, patterns. I also have a dream journal. So I keep a dream journal by my bed and I write down my dreams.

And then I look at that, in context with that. I use almost more as a diary because it's weird. I can really see what's happening in my personal life based on the dreams that I was having around that time. So those have both been things that have been really, Beneficial is the journal. 

Sam: Do you have the experience? that going through the motions to write things down help to solidify them in memory and kind of give them a categorical space in your, thoughts or ideas.

Laurie: think

Sam: Yeah. Yeah.

Laurie: it adds,

Sam: Yeah.

Laurie: um, I'm trying to [00:40:00] think how to phrase it. Words are spells. Writing is a powerful way to take something that's not just here, but put it into the physical realm. So by doing that, you're taking your thoughts and your dreams and your goals and ambitions into the physical realm. In whatever context that means to you and you're making them physical 

Mike: I'd like to, ask you about what the effects of that have been

Sam: Mmm.

Mike: for yourself. your relationships, in your partnership.

You mentioned that you're a stepmom, right? So there's a lot of benefit to peace of mind and all of these other things, but I also like to think that it has also resulted in more fulfilling relationships. I was curious to know how it might be reflected in your art, as a painter, as a songwriter. so I'd almost like to transition a little bit from how we do

Laurie: what, what, [00:41:00] what,

Mike: um, the

Laurie: or how it shows up, how it shows up. So,

Mike: Yes. Thank

Laurie: for me, I can only speak for myself and my own personal journey. I, I can say that one. I'm just more at peace. So when you're more at peace, that allows you, for example, all of the tech problems that I was having over the last 24 hours, I was starting to get into this spin and I wanted to do this chat with you guys so bad.

I've been looking forward to it so much. So I was able to use the tools to pull myself emotionally out of that. And when my husband was trying to help me and it was, it was causing me anxiety because he was trying to help me, but we're like on a time crunch and I, I started to. Not be at my best self.

I was able to stop that and express myself in a kind way with love that I Appreciate so much that you're trying to help me right now, but we're already past that I don't it's too late You know Like I need to move into this other problem solving way of handling [00:42:00] it and then I was able to pull myself out what would have been a spiral of self loathing

Mike: amazing.

Laurie: and Would have lasted for hours and I would have canceled this and I would have then felt really bad about myself because I canceled it And I would have not been I would have felt that failure I was able to just pull myself out of that emotional tailspin and try to show up to be my best self in this present moment.

And so, that's an example. I could give you a thousand examples. You know, it's,

Mike: huge. I mean, that, that's like a huge example. 

Sam: Yum.

Mike: that's really impressive by the way. so good for you. Well done. Congratulations. because it's like, not only did it not result in a downward spiral, but presumably created the space to do

Laurie: yeah, and beautiful. This has been a beautiful conversation. I've enjoyed every minute of it. And it's, I, was doing a tarot reading for a young girl yesterday. she said it was a great reading and we had a great time, but we also just put the cards aside and we [00:43:00] just sat and talked for like 40 minutes and we were just channeling to each other.

And, and we said we should do a podcast. We should do a podcast episode together because I said, I told her, I was going to be on the, on here with you guys today. And I said, I can't wait cause I'm really looking forward to having this conversation. and so, you know, there are a lot of people out there right now.

There's so much craziness in the world and there's so much stress. And there's so much uncertainty that a lot of people are really leaning into these kinds of things and conversations and open mindedness in a way that did not exist when I was young. And it's, it's wonderful as me, for me as a, as someone who's having these conversations with younger women primarily, to see how open they are to pivoting.

Yeah, that's really good. That's right. That's insight. That's insightful. Thank you. and I see how, this thing can ripple, right? The, the self reflection that we do can ripple out to other generations and they can ripple to [00:44:00] us, their insights and their lack of prejudices that we're having to work through.

They don't necessarily have them. And so if we're all working on working on ourselves, We can anchor heaven on earth. we can lift up the whole community together. And I love what Sam has talked about, about love. I always feel like love is the answer. Love is the starting point. And I think self love is a big part of that.

So one of the things that's so great about knowing yourself is you can forgive yourself, parts integration. You can forgive yourself shadow work. You can look at the past and, and integrate the best parts and release the parts that are no longer serving you. You have higher discernment level when somebody's coming at you that is not, uh, that is a drama queen or king or an unhealed person.

You can see it a mile off. I, I liken this analogy to, being on the freeway of life, but not in a car. Well, and you're just trying to avoid getting run over when you're [00:45:00] not in alignment with your values.

Sam: Heh

Laurie: And you're just trying to,

Sam: Mmm.

Laurie: the difference is, is that when you do this kind of work, you're just walking along the side of the road and you can see trouble coming and you can step so far out of the way that it just drives right on by.

And I, I have this thing I say all the time, I release myself from people, places, and situations that no longer serve me or lead me to my highest and greatest good.

Mike: Yeah.

Laurie: and I say it as a reinforcement to myself that I don't have to get caught up in other people's drama. I can love them from a distance or I can give them some help and then step away, but I don't have to get caught up and they're on their, they're on their journey.

I'm on mine. It's not my job

Mike: Mm

Laurie: to save everybody. It's just my job to work on myself and then be an example. 

Mike: Yeah, I think it's awesome. The fact that you had that conversation that you just shared with us recently with a young woman, because you're creating a space and a forum. For them that going back to the beginning [00:46:00] of our conversation today, it doesn't

Laurie: Yes.

Mike: had as a young woman. And so this idea that through what you've learned and through your experience, you can be an accelerator for somebody else, getting there. 

Laurie: that's so nice. Thank you for saying that. That's why I do what I do.

And one of the other things I wanted to just share with you before we go, I know we're short on time, but, I'm making this magazine that's about to come out called spirited soul. Um, and that's really what it's going to be is, is I'm trying to create a space for healers and people that are looking for different types of healing, because everybody is going to be.

At a comfort level with a different type of healing like Sam's mentioned one that I'd never heard about. Um, you know There's traditional therapy, right? But there's all kinds of different types of healings and some of them are not Things that we in the western culture have necessarily heard of or are familiar with And some of them are, but they're more, um, esoteric, or they're [00:47:00] more, um, closed practices.

But there is a space to have the conversation about these different types of healings and healers. And the magazine is also going to be about wellness, so it will be physical as well, and creativity. But what I'm really looking to do is create this space where people can pick it up and be like, Oh, I've never heard of this.

I'm going to check this out. 

I love that. Yeah,

Mike: Yeah, that's great.

Sam: well, I'll say this in closing because we are getting to that time, I was reflecting with Mike before you came on with us today, Lorianne, uh, introducing you, I guess, in effect for our listeners, but also kind of informing Mike as to who you are to me, when we came to know one another. during that, that special time, like early twenties, you know, when none of us at that age have engaged fully with the dogma of our adult [00:48:00] processing of being a human being. And so therefore we are still clairvoyance to the wisdom and messaging of the universe, to the extent that we were able to write songs and, and have flow, um, which we both did at the time.

And I'll try to, I'll try to reiterate this and say this and share this without being emotional, but like I, before you were a tarot reader and before you were a magazine producer before you were a step mom before you were all of the other myriad titles that you've become, you were one of my best friends you were someone who, whose company, uh, I, I took a huge amount of comfort in. 

because your heart was generous because you had flow and something about you occurred to me even then, uh, even though age wise we're [00:49:00] only a couple of years apart, there was, there was wisdom that flowed through you, And, um, my heart has always, been, in a state of reverence for you in that regard. so I just want you to know that, that that's, that's who you are to me and.

Laurie: Oh, that's, um,

Sam: So, so I'm honored that you came here to unpack them and you picked a really, poignant Maxim, that you chose to unpack with us, but I'm honored that you brought, uh, who you are and, what you have to offer to this, uh, Podcast today, because this is where I'm at in my life.

And Mike is my partner in this and we do this specifically. So, we can get undressed and be vulnerable and share our hearts and our, and our fears and desires and all of those things out loud in front of other people so that they can do that along with

Laurie: yeah, I mean, that's,

Sam: um,

Laurie: kind of, you know, when you're young, you're open [00:50:00] and, it creates deep bonds that last forever. And there's a magic in that. And so you were the same for me. So you know, you've always been insanely special to me.

and I just I am want to honor and thank both of you for giving me this opportunity because This was a, like I said, it was a great learning lesson for me. It was a great learning lesson for me about over committing and under preparing and not being ready and ways to improve on how I communicate with my spouse and ways to communicate with myselfAnd I'm so grateful that we were able to pull it together and be on the call together because this was a blessing for me. You guys, I, I just enjoyed every minute of it. It was a true blessing. So thank you.

Mike: Excellent. thank you. Yeah. And there's no way I could follow any of that. So I'll just say it was great to be able to, experience the relationship that you guys have together, at least a very small piece of [00:51:00] it, during this conversation. So, so thank you. So thanks for

Laurie: It's my pleasure.

Sam: And my closing statement is this. Is that there is no preparation for witnessing.

Laurie: Oh, that's a lovely.

Sam: and that's what we came here to do

Laurie: Yeah.

Sam: to witness, the flow of, of shared energy and information and feelings and all that stuff. So there's, there's no way to prepare for that.

I mean, maybe technically speaking there is,

Mike: A couple of deep breaths helps, but yeah,

Hey, it's Sam and Mike, and we appreciate you coming on this journey with us today. We hope that if you enjoyed it, you'll tell a friend or better yet, share a link to this podcast and let your community know directly how it impacted you. That would really help us reach more listeners. Just like yourself.

Thanks again for listening today. Please feel free to email us at info at Maximeqpodcast. com to share a favorite maxim or adage that you might like us to consider for a future episode. [00:52:00] Or perhaps just leave a kind message, maybe some feedback. Till next time, make it a great day.