E63: Aspire to Speak Up (ft. Charlie Pillsbury) - Real Men, Real Conversations

In this week's episode of Aspire, host Alex Prout and student co-host Ryan welcome Charlie Pillsbury, a survivor, Quinnipiac law professor, and family friend to the Prouts, for a deeply personal conversation about his lifelong journey toward healing from sexual assault.

Charlie reflects on his early years at St. Paul's School, sharing a painful experience of sexual assault during his time as a young boarding student and the culture that allowed and encouraged the abuse. He speaks candidly about how he buried that experience until years later, a news story about another assault at the same institution brought back those memories and compelled him to act.

This moment became a turning point. Charlie wrote a public op-ed recounting his experience, breaking years of silence and becoming the first member of the St. Paul's community to publicly support Alex Prout's family following Chessie's assault.

The conversation explores how trauma lingers across decades, shaping one's sense of safety, identity, and belonging. Charlie shares how, even 50 years later, returning to campus required emotional preparation and trust.

Together, Alex, Ryan, and Charlie examine the broader themes of masculinity, power, and accountability. They lay the groundwork for a larger conversation about what it means to challenge harmful norms and build communities rooted in respect and care.

Breaking the silence is never easy, but it can create connection, spark change, and open the door for healing.

For more information, please visit ihavetherightto.org

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Aspire, and I have the Right2 podcast, where we amplify voices, share stories, and drive change in the fight against sexual assault. We explore the critical issues surrounding student safety, institutional accountability, and survivor empowerment. In every episode, our goal is to provide insightful conversations with survivors, experts, educators, and advocates, giving you, our listener, valuable information, resources, and actionable steps to create safer environments and cultivate the culture of respect and consent. Welcome back to the Aspire podcast. I'm Alex Prout, co-founder of I Have the Right To, and I'm here today with one of my newest co-hosts, Ryan Nakor, an eighth grader from the Zaverian School outside of Boston, and looking forward to working today with you, Ryan.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Yes, I'm very excited for today.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Aspire was created by the nonprofit I Have the Right to as a space for honest, meaningful conversations about survivor advocacy, prevention, and what it truly takes to create safer communities. If these conversations resonate with you and you're interested in bringing them into your school or community, we would love to connect. I have the right to partners with K through 12 schools, colleges, and universities to provide age-appropriate programming for students, educators and parents on consent, healthy relationships, digital safety leadership, and more, helping turn these conversations into action. You can reach us at Tate Action at I Have the Right to. So, Ryan, I'm going to turn it over to you to introduce our guest today.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Today on Real Men, Real Conversations, we're honored to welcome Charlie Pillsbury. Charlie is a survivor and dear friend of the Prout family. He is also a distinguished practitioner in residence in the dispute resolution and co-director of the Center of Dispute Resolution at Quinnipac University School of Law. Through his work, Charlie has dedicated his career to helping people navigate conflict, build understanding, and create pathways towards accountability and change.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

So, Charlie, it is such an honor to have you on our podcast today. Thanks so much for being here with us.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

You're very welcome. I mean, it's important work that you do.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

So, Charlie, you have a last name that I think might be familiar to many, you know, in the audience. And you know, Pillsbury is almost like a household name. So I am going to start first by sort of explaining maybe some things that some people might know well about you. Ryan gave your professional introduction. And then I also want to mention sort of a a couple of little known, you know, facts that I've learned through conversations, you know, with you. But you come from a family that has made um, that has a long history in the United States and has also done quite amazing things, maybe least of all through, you know, the Pillsbury Company and the the sort of the business and the progress that Pillsbury uh was able to develop and generate in the flower, um, in the flower business. But also your family has a long history in politics, in philanthropy, um, and doing good things. And, you know, I wanted to mention that background because um in getting to know you over the last 10 years, knowing that background, it helps me also understand what kind of man you know you are um today by some of the family, you know, background of public service and focus that exists. But there also, I've learned you have underneath the proper veneer quite an interesting sense of humor, you know, as well. And maybe one fun fact that I will mention to you is if, or maybe I'll ask you to mention is um I understand a very famous comic strip, you know, if you follow Doonesbury, you might recognize, you know, Charlie from one of the characters depicted there. But Charlie, could you let us know a little bit about how that came to be?

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Simply put, I was uh at Yale College. Uh, one of my college roommates was Gary Trudeau. And uh he uh was editor of the Yale Humor Magazine and uh had daily strips called Bull Tales in the Yale Daily News. The these comic strips had a stereotypical jock, a stereotypical uh hippie, and a stereotypical radical, and then kind of the Charlie Brown of the strip, you know, the the one who was clueless. And uh when we were in our senior years, and you know, uh at that point the it was the Vietnam War, the draft, people were wondering what to do next. Gary was contacted by a syndicate, I think it's based in the Midwest, uh, um, a new syndicate that was working both with an essayist, Gary Wills, and a cartoonist, um, Gary Trudeau, to essentially syndicate the work they were doing. Of course, to do that, um the syndicate and Gary had to come up with a new name. They couldn't call the strip Bulltails. It's very parochial. So it was had to be really one of its characters. And uh it was a toss-up between Zonker, who was the stereotypical hippie, and and Doonsbury, who was uh, I would say, the the Charlie Brown of the strip, you know, the one who's always missing the football or whatever. And so they landed on Doonesbury. So the rest is history. I did there's some backdrop I, you know, that ties into our discussion. It's at St. Paul's. This is what sort of St. Paul's lingo, the Dune was an a nasty slur. If you called somebody a Dune, they were an idiot, they were stupid. When we got to college, it uh morphed, and it it just meant sometimes you were you were clueless. And I said, I said, so what exactly uh do you mean, Gary? And he said, Well, you know, you have the capacity to embarrass everybody around you without embarrassing yourself. So uh, you know, I I'm quite proud of that moniker. And it's funny that I when I I when I teach uh as I actually in my last semester teaching at at Quinnipack Law School, I like to meet individually with each one of my students and you know find out why they're taking the course, what they hope to get out of it. And then a fun fact, and so I always use a uh a fun fact, uh I have a comic strip that's named after me.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

So it'll be in my obituary, I'm sure. Well, well, so you know, Charlie, you know, that that sort of ties us into the one of the common things that we share is, you know, um having had our um formative education at St. Paul's school. And um I would I was hoping that you could explain for our audience, you know, we we there's some time between our time at the school. I think there was 15 or 16 years uh difference in us in in age. You were class of 65, I was class of um 82. Um so we didn't cross over there, but we did cross over later in life. But I was wondering if you could explain um about you know how we met and and how you became involved with our organization, I have the right to.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Sure, but uh maybe two uh um first of all, yeah, I was a class from 1965. At the time it was still an all-male school. And uh my third form year, they they didn't have grades at St. Paul's. They had, you know, it was really uh it went from seventh grade to twelfth grade, but basically first form, second form, third form, you know. So I'm a third former, a new essentially freshman at uh St. Paul's. And uh we live in in dormitories with uh, you know, in my dormitory was a with other third formers. And uh uh and I was young for my class. I had a my October birthday, and uh and at one point in my sometimes even hard to talk about, at one point, I mean, there'd be stupid things like you'd be in the shower after sports and people would be snapping towels and do dumb things like that. But you know, one night I was already asleep and these two guys walked into my room. There were just there were classmates who lived down the hall. And uh I said, What are you doing? He says, Well, you know, you'll see. And uh, at that point, one of them pins me to my bed and the other one tries to uh make me ejaculate, starts masturbating. And uh I'm so young that I haven't yet uh you know come into puberty. And of course, you know, I I wasn't gonna at that point in a ninth grader embarrass myself or or them. I mean, I just thought that comes for the territory. I mean, boarding schools had to have a kind of Lord of the Flies atmosphere at in those days, and uh and young boys can be nasty to other young boys. It didn't so anyway, so I just put it but uh I'd say now it, you know, like I say, close to 20 years ago, where uh my wife and I are on our annual kind of trip to Martha's Vineyard, where we like to spend a couple weeks each summer off the coast of Massachusetts. And uh I like to stop at the first uh um uh plaza on on I-95 to pick up a copy of the Boston Globe because I uh I I'm a nerd. I want to get oriented, I want to know what's going on in Boston, I want to know what's going on on the vineyard, and uh so pick up the Boston Globe. My wife is driving, so I'm you know looking at it. In the headlines, there's this story about this kid from St. Paul's who has been thrown out of school and uh uh as a result, I think it's also jeopardized, I think he was had been admitted to Harvard. Apparently, I you know he was this was done because he had been accused of raping a third former, uh, you know, uh a freshman. Uh which I learned later was something that six formers did in those days on the week before graduation. They were to score with a fifth third former. And so uh he scored, but um you know I that what then happens is that, you know, so I'm I'm stunned, but then then there's a story about it in the Hartford Current. Now they pick up that story because the Hartford Current covers some of Massachusetts and and uh I decide to write a letter uh in response to their story about my experience and uh short and sweet and to the point, and then I get a call a couple of days later from the editor of the Hartford Current and they want to interview me. Um and uh so I say sure. So actually they come down to my house in Avon and interview about my experience at St. Paul's and uh and what prompted my letter. And I think you know, certainly what prompted it was that I was just you know it it was kind of reawoke that that the the trauma that you carry with you just kind of brought it back and uh and you know what was going on was just you know just beyond the pale as far as I was concerned. And so that op-ed piece shows up in in the current, and I think maybe that day, I think it was in the Sunday paper. Later that day, or certainly on Monday, I get a phone call out of the blue from from Alex. And uh he's really interested. And I say, you know, where are you calling from? And he said, Florida. I said, Well, how could you possibly we'd be reading the Hartford Current in in Florida? He said, Well, no, I have I have family in Connecticut, and they read the story and they called me up. And uh I think at that time, you know, you know, St. Paul's was stonewalling. He said, you know, you're the first person from the St. Paul's community, you know, first person who's actually given any support to us and to our daughter. Yeah. And uh, you know, not the rector, that's what they call the head of school at St. Paul's, not any faculty, not the not the uh uh the board of directors, not the alumni association, nobody. That's how we met.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Well, yeah, Charlie, it I I get somewhat emotional looking back on that because, you know, with the work that we're doing now in aspirational masculinity, I would add another sort of you know adjective to describing you. You know, you were the first, you know, St. Paul's person that offered support, but also I'm looking back on it now, I think it was you're you're the first non-male to offer support as well, which, you know, given the topic of the day, you know, of this podcast and and wanting to explore, you know, masculinity, you know, it was extremely powerful for me that an a man stood up to tell your story, to offer the words of support to my daughter, because I think inherently I also understood understood gravity or the meaning of your silence over such a long period of time and how meaningful it was in my mind thinking for you to speak up like this, especially in such, you know, a public manner through the largest newspaper in Connecticut.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Yeah, and I think at that point I had actually stopped going to my St. Paul's reunions. I went to my 10th, never went back. Um, I then decided to actually to attend my 50th anniversary. But that before I did that, I mean, if you can imagine, I mean, 50 years later, um, I still did not feel safe at the school. So I had to call up a friend of mine who I was still in touch with, one of my classmates that I had kept in touch with, uh to see if they would be at the graduation, because if there was one person I knew and liked and trusted, I'd be willing to uh go. So I I went. And uh, you know, it was hard. But you can see you know how how trauma lingers. I have to say, s since then, you know, having worked through this, I actually then went back more recently to my 60th reunion and actually had a kind of a good experience. It felt like, you know, first of all, my classmates were all mature and uh and you know, not that this topic came up, but it was good to s reconnect with some of them. And uh And I also had a chance at my 60th to uh talk briefly to the rector of the now headmistress, I'm not sure what you call her, but the first, actually first female head of school at St. Paul's, which goes back what 150 years. So that's uh um that was itself was a radical break with tradition.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Yes. And so I think, you know, um having been, you know, closely monitoring, you know, the school, you know, over the last decade since Chessey's assault, you know, they've you know, we've actually been in touch with multiple survivors after you know Chessy's class. So unfortunately, you know, and I think the reality is, you know, the the topic of sexual violence, it it exists everywhere. It's a scourge in all parts of our you know society. For me, you know, I think the work that we're doing and the work that you're gonna be joining us in, Charlie, is raising awareness and challenging communities to build these communities of support and love and connection. And and I look back at how we've developed our friendship and you've developed a friendship with Chessey as being sort of a perfect example of what good can happen. And, you know, unfortunately at the institutional level, there's still too much of a, I think, a level of silence, you know, on the topic. The St. Paul's school was under Department of Justice supervision for five years. It it that supervision ended sort of three years ago, I believe. And, you know, unfortunately, structurally, not much has changed. I think society and and demands of the students and demands of parents have evolved in the post-Me Too, you know, era. But, you know, and I think one of the challenges of our org is how do we address, you know, these way of thinking that is established that the first instinct of dealing with this topic is to want to silence people or not focus on it, refer to it as an isolated incident, and try to pretend that everything is is fine. But we are fortunate now to have as one of our co-hosts, someone who is, you know, existing right now, you know, in the space of um middle school, you know, environment. Ryan, I want to bring your voice into this conversation. Maybe first before you ask a question to Charlie, uh, how do you feel about you know this? Um, you know, I think Charlie, you you had mentioned in your time that some of the boys were nasty to other boys. And I think I experienced and saw that during my time in school in in general. But Ryan, does that comment sort of resonate with you in the environment that you're existing in?

SPEAKER_01 16:40

In the vi in the environment I was a very in, I feel like the best part about it is like when you go to tour school or when you go look at a school, the most important thing for me is like you go and you look around at the community and you see how people treat each other. And I feel like just going to tour there, and when I went there, the community at first was great. And then when you actually get into the part of that community, you see that they don't just do that for show, but that that's the actual school itself. And it's not just like, oh yeah, we just we're just great. But like students really embody like the Zivarian's values, and you can see that in every day-to-day life at Zaverian. And I feel like I'm so lucky to be part of a community where I don't have to see that part of most people. And I like thank God I don't really see that in my community.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Um, you know, excellent. And I think, you know, we've we've been to Zivarian multiple times over the last several years, and it it it has been refreshing to work with administrators who want to bring these difficult conversations into the school, into the hallways, and and then also have open-ended conversations about, you know, aspirational masculinity. But um maybe I'll I'll turn it over to you now for a question for Charlie.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Yeah, um, Mr. Pillsbury, I just had a question. When you hear the phrase of aspirational masculinity, what does that mean to you personally?

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Curious, I was gonna ask you that question. I mean, I I I I think I have a sense that what it means that, you know, uh you're not a caveman, you know, you're not, you know, you respect women, you're kind to children, you're kind to old people. I mean, you're just a you know, a decent person. So but as you were talking, I was also thinking that um, you know, it's uh important to do the work at probably in every setting, but I think that uh you know, residential boarding schools are particularly open to this this kind of um so uh you know, cause because kids who go to to uh you know public or private day schools get to go home at night. Boarding school kids don't. They go home maybe once or twice over the course of the year. So it's uh I think well I'm impressed. Maybe you can help me, Ryan, by just flipping my question. What what is your understanding of aspir aspirational um masculinity?

SPEAKER_01 19:00

Because I think you know, you have many more years to live than I do, so you're gonna Um For me, I feel like aspirational masculinity, especially at like an all-boys school or like the school that I go to, I feel like it should be something called like in my opinion, it should just be the bare minimum for all boys, especially for Catholic schools. I feel like aspirational masculinity is just respect to people outside of your community and in your community. And I feel like my understanding of aspirational masculinity is like at Zaverian, we're taught that you the bare minimum is you should treat others with respect. You should talk to people like they are better than you. You have to be humble. That's one of the biggest parts about Zaverian. And I feel like that's like the best job they do instilling aspirational masculinity into like just our everyday. Because I feel like just bringing I have a right to into our school at such a young age in eighth grade, Zaverian does try its best to instill like aspirational masculinity into us. And I feel like that's like my understanding of aspirational masculinity, probably like the bare minimum.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Yeah, and I think that's right. It reminds me that I too went to a private middle school. And uh and yeah, there were certainly raisures. I there there wasn't that kind of physical harassment, but there was a lot of name calling. Um and uh and sometimes, you know, again, the athletes particularly the very good ones, you know, really are um looked up to. You know, they can be nasty too, and and you know, a kid who's not a jock or who's uh struggling in some of their classes, you know, or just uh um doesn't, you know. Anyway, it's uh it can still be nasty, so I can see why it's an important thing to do what what what you've done, uh, even in that setting.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Well, you know, so this is you know just remarkable hearing sort of a uh a conversation through generations, you know, here um um between Ryan and and Charlie and touching on this, you know, subject of what it means to be a decent or you know, a good person or a good man. And you know, I will ask both of you guys, you know, um, because you know, Charlie, through the the multiple interactions that we've had and through the kindness that you've shown, you know, my daughter and our family, you know, I I can sort of almost see it in the fabric of who you are. And the fact of your work in dispute resolution, right, and building pathways to accountability and and change, you know, I can almost sense it's been your life work, right? Because as you mentioned, Charlie, around You growing up, there are you know alpha males or athletes who are looking to establish their power dominance or whatever it might be. And and Ryan, as especially as you look at you're at the top of the totem pole in middle school now in eighth grade, right? But you're about to transition in a couple of months, right, to high school where you're going to shift to being the lowest run, you know, on the totem pole. I would love to hear both of your perspectives on how do you, you know, veer away from that potentiality of being one of those ones who are sort of being nasty or or leveraging these these power positions. And and to me, it's almost a courageous decision to say, no, I want to be who I am in the in these situations, even though it might be difficult.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

I feel like for me, when uh like even right now, being like that top of like middle school, even though next year I'm gonna be at the bottom of a high school, I feel like one of the most important things, and this is what I have at right to taught me when you guys came and talked about our school, is just like a lot like maturing, maturity means like you have to learn that by putting others down, that doesn't mean you put yourself up. If people, if you put others down and you think people are like looking up to you, people are just like scared of you. Like it's not a sort of respect you guys have. You might think, wow, they respect me, but that's not what it is. And I feel like one of the most important things, like if we're talking a lot about like athletics or like sports or like the jocks, like I feel like those people in locker rooms, there's like locker room, like how do I sense like locker room, uh locker room terms, let's just say that. And people, a lot of like athletes think it's okay to say like whatever they want in locker rooms, but like another thing is like although you might just be one person in like next year when I'm the lowest in high school, I might just be one person. But the thing, worst thing to do is just stay silent when you see others like mistreating others. And I feel like like the worst thing you can do is stay silent and just watch and be like, oh, I was never a part of that, like I just saw that. I feel like that's one of the like again, that's so horrible. And then the best thing to do in situations like that is to take away the person's platform. Like, although you're just one person, if someone says something you don't like, you can be like, that just like you can't say stuff like that. Like that wasn't funny, that's unacceptable. And when one person sees you doing that, your other friend will, and then your friend's friend will. And then it just keeps like spreading and spreading until you just take away that person's platform and they realize what they're saying and doing is wrong.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Yeah, and I give, first of all, I give credit to my my father, uh he rest in peace, uh, who I I I would like to say that he he never met anyone he didn't like. He had a capacity to find something likable about everyone he met. Uh uh. So I think that certainly shaped me. So I I give him credit. But then interestingly, I was just thinking about this that, you know, back up to St. Paul's, um, there was some, you know, there was a nastiness. I mean, aside from the sexual stuff, I remember we had in those days we had one Jewish kid in in my class, and he was a towny, so he had dug two strikes against him. He came from Concord, New Hampshire, of a town, and he was Jewish. Um, and I remember times when uh some of these a-holes in in my class would, you know, take a corner when he was walking down the hallway and flip it in front of him and said, you know, shekel, there's a shekel, you know, and you know, it was just uh astonishing. But on the flip side, there's something about St. Paul's, maybe is that it for me was a very s in the end, a very spiritual uh we experience. I I uh you know, probably was a sunshine Christian, but when I went to St. Paul's, we had uh in those days, we had chapel every morning, and then on twice on Sunday, there was a regular service at the morning and then evening song, and then even on Wednesdays, those days there were you know morning, like seven o'clock in the morning communion services. Uh and uh so uh my I think even even my by the time my next sophomore year, I I'm uh become an accolade. So I became very ac active in the in the church. But you know, the other thing that I had going for me is that uh I was I was the scholar athlete of my class. I you know, I played three varsity sports, uh I, you know, graduated cum laudi. So uh uh so tough to find anything to make you know, they could make fun of me, but they couldn't, there was nothing, you know, they could, you know, and so I I think that that kind of then led, I'd say, to my later in life, you know, uh having been a s a conscientious objector during the Vietnam War, uh, you know, now we're in involved in a war that's even more insane than that. But um uh the uh I through my faith, you know, uh really began to kind of be interested in the ministry of reconciliation. I see I see mediation as a as a as a kind of as a ministry. I mean, there's as a ministry of justice that's important, but uh uh you know I'm I like to quote an Micah who says uh you know, love justice, do mercy, do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God. And so um and you know Paul in his letter to the Corinthians, you know, talks about all the conflict that's going on within his congregation and uh uh how you Paul's uh concern was that it made Christians look like idiots, you know, to the the pagan Romans and the Greeks that surrounded them. So but it so I think that that's uh you know, there is has certainly that kind of uh spiritual framework that's that that's that's uh informed the kind of the kind of work I I I do and and still do. Um it's actually with some regret that I'm actually you know finally decided to retire and no longer be I did mediation for 20 years and then I taught mediation for 20 years. So it's and then that that era is is ending.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Well now I'm gonna shift gears a little bit, Charlie, you know, from your sort sort of foundation and then your professional career, but I want to shift to your role as a dad. You know, I remember in our first conversation, you explained to me the commentary that you got back from your daughters after you decided to come forward and speak out in the Hartford current. You know, maybe you can share that story, but also tell me about, you know, how being a father, you know, how that has sort of shaped, you know, shaped you in terms of your own healing journey, but then also your ability to be someone who now is speaking, speaking out on behalf of survivors.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Yeah, well, certainly. I mean, I think that I get married in in uh to the mother of my my children in in the in the early 1980s. And at that point in American society, there was such a strong feminist movement that, you know, it was if dads weren't involved with their kids, they weren't good dads. I mean, it wasn't just it it just wasn't just women, it was men. I ironically think that'd be interesting that that is particularly important for fathers of daughters. They matter. I didn't just go to my son's uh soccer games, I went to my daughter's lacrosse games and my other daughter's her soccer game. You know, so you, you know, you you uh you just sh showed up. So I think that in some respects, I think what is wonderful about my four kids uh is that they have a very high self-esteem. And I think that that self-esteem comes you know from having two parents, but particularly the the father, because you know, that's the trouble they're gonna run into with with men. And I think also because uh first my parents were politically active. I became I was you know pretty active, although in my those days I I took a step further. I actually ran for Congress as a member of the Green Party. You know, needless say was not elected. But uh, you know, I think that made a huge impression on my kids that I would stick my neck out. You know, so we have you know one daughter, sadly, who died after a second bout of COVID about three years ago. But you know, she was a very strong, you didn't mess with you didn't mess with Leah. And uh you know, I know that so that you know and all my other kids, I mean Lydia, another one that's was a scholar athlete in her class. He went to a boarding school, Subhills Academy. I think actually, even then, now that I think about it, the there were issues in that so she would have she would have been in um you know, school in the in the in the 80s, and there were st still issues, even in you know, so uh in boarding schools. Anyway, I think it's one of the reasons she's a social worker. And all my kids uh are are great parents. I feel like I'd done my job. We got to be a grandparent, so that's much easier.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

Thank you so much for sharing. I just have a question. Like as a male survivor, what helped you to begin to move forward from your silence and to speak more openly about your experiences?

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Well, I I don't think I it was really jolted by uh reading about what was going on at my boarding school. I remember well, I mean, I got a a world-class education at St. Paul's and but you can pay a price in in those days. And it was it's it's it's a school climate. You know, I really like I say I still keep going back to the Lord of the Flies, but it was not unlike that. But I think it was really I give Jesse's courage to you know to actually uh file a complaint and as I go to trial. I think one of the things I think when I think back on that, what was w wonderful about her experience, I think it takes a lot of gust to you know to suddenly become a plaintiff in a criminal trial, because then the whole world, you know, it's it's public information. But Alex may remember this, but there was a w a wonderful uh female sergeant, you know, a detective in the Concord uh police department. She was the the detec the sergeant, the detective assigned to that case, probably because it dealt with a young woman. And uh I think it was her testimony that really uh had a huge impact on the jury and why they found in the end, you know, uh a against uh defendant, this young man, I think the school at that point may have been implicated too. I can't remember now, the litigation side of it. But you know, the fact that so anyway, that that was have to say, Chessie's one of my heroes. I don't know about her dad, but you know, but Chessie, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

Well, and the per that detective that you mentioned, Detective Julie Curtin, is certainly one of my heroes, as are you, Charlie, because speaking out as you did bolstered us in a time of severe need, a severe isolation. And it it your voice cut across the universe with such crystal clear clarity and hit us at the moment that we needed to be propped up. So, you know, for that I will forever be, you know, grateful.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

Now let's use, you know, that's one thing I've I've done well is it's used my privilege. I mean, to give you some idea, you mentioned the a famous family. So uh I remember my father telling me the story that uh uh his parents, my grandparents, wanted to send uh they had six kids, four sons and uh two daughters, they all went to private schools. All four of the, you know, my father and his three older brothers all went to St. Paul's school. The uh admissions process was very easy. I mean, my I think they uh once you know they when my uncle, my oldest, my grandmother, not my grandpa, my grandmother took a trip to the East Coast, not to to to have the schools interview her her oldest son, my uncle John, but so she could interview the headmasters. You know, so she went and interviewed the rector at St. Paul, the headmaster at St. Mark's at Groton. And, you know, for whatever reason, I don't know. She decided, I think maybe she liked, even though she was Catholic and uh not very uh uh, you know, I'd have to say not a devout Catholic, but she uh liked the idea, I think, that St. Paul's was an episcopal school and uh that her children might would be in good care. Of course, but that turned out to not always be the case. But but uh um there's no question that that my name gives me the privilege to speak out and to be uh and I'll tell you just one more story related to that. Uh when I was a council detector, I was gotten very involved in the anti-war movement, but particularly protesting the Honeywell Corporation that was making at that time anti-personnel uh cluster bombs. They were spraying over the in Vietnam. And uh my mother, I gave my parents credit, you know, they were supportive. Both parents, but my mother said, you know, Charlie, I I have to answer a lot of questions. They want to know where where did they go, where did you go, where do you think you went wrong with Charlie? And of course, my mother said, I didn't go wrong. She said, Well, you know, I'm quite proud of my son. And actually, one of our neighbors where we lived on Lake Minnetaka was one of the founders of the Honeywell Corporation back in the 1920s. I was going to a cocktail party uh that they hosted at the this neighbor of ours came up to my mother and said, You know, uh Sally, I I I disagree completely with what Char Charlie's doing, but uh but I wish my kids were doing something like that. They're just going to parties and drinking, you know. What are they doing with their lives? You know, so you know, you get that respect. Uh but I certainly having the support of both my parents meant a lot through that time. So another reason for you know to be engaged with your kids. They need they need all of you. You must have great parents, Ryan, because you know be that you're that mature as an eighth grader. When you when I saw you on the screen, I thought, God, they they got a high school student.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

Well, I was gonna say it just takes a village to raise to raise a child, right? So everyone's got to be a part of it in order to have a child thrive. Amen. And if you had the chance to speak to another survivor, like especially a man who um who's still like quiet about their experiences, what would you share to them? Do you have any like words of wisdom or advice?

SPEAKER_00 36:28

Well, I think you have to sh ultimately bottling up is is uh it it sits you. And uh so I think there was something liberating about sharing um and externalizing your trauma. Probably a question to ask a psychologist or a you know or a social worker, but I think you know, basically there's uh these experiences are tragic. I mean, and uh lots of things that trigger that. And sometimes the only way to to do it is to face your your trauma and and uh it uh it's it's liberating. Uh and you know it's it's you it's uh it's important to support others who've been through what you have. I mean, I anyway, so I don't need to go I I can tell stories all day about it. And of course you you can only share with people you trust. And sometimes, you know, you don't know who those people are gonna are. But you know certainly you can trust another survivor. And there may be these days, uh I I don't know, because I was my mother was an alcoholic. I spent a lot of years in in Al-Anon, and I'm sure that there must be 12 step groups for people who suffered, you know, because that's you know and I think that I found actually going to the Al Anon not just it helped me process my mother's drinking, but also opened my heart and spirit in ways I had not expected. I these support groups, and maybe that's again something that I have a r have the right to is is organizing. I'd imagine that's the kind of thing that that you do. Um like I say, it's liberating and healing.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

Thank you so much for sharing. I feel like for anybody that listens, that's such a great word of advice. Thank you so much. Well, thank you for stepping up. Yeah. Um, I just had one final question. What in the work of I Have a Right To like gives you the most hope?

SPEAKER_00 38:17

Well, what gives me the most hope is that this is an issue that nobody likes to talk about. And I have a right to is forcing people to talk about it and to address it in all sorts of settings, particularly schools, probably also in communities, and particularly with young kids who are very vulnerable. When somebody sticks their neck out like I have the right to, it ills has a way of I wouldn't be surprised to see other similar organizations spring up around the country, either supported by I have the right to or just independently, because it's a it's a nationwide, if not worldwide, problem.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

Yes. And thank you, Charlie. You know, the the reality is, according to the data, we all know a survivor of sexual violence. The horrible thing is that that person does not feel safe to speak up about it. And we do want to break the silence around this topic. You know, Charlie Chessy said something profound at the beginning of last year. She said, Mom and dad, I finally feel like more good things than bad things have happened since my assault. And therefore, I no longer am upset at the universe that it this was, you know, this was done to me by my perpetrator. And one of the things that I know for sure that is a major brick in that foundation of good feeling after the assault was meeting you. And, you know, this is the miracle of communication, this is the the miracle of connectivity, and this is the power of what we can do by using our voices. And you said something, Charlie, that I actually want to name this episode is you know, how do we take, you know, this concept of of knowledge and then developing care about a topic, in this case, sexual violence. But, you know, developing that caring feeling is not enough. It's it's how do we convert this to action, right? And you know, that action that weld up inside of you to write that op-ed and take that big leap of faith of telling your story, right? And all of these things, Ryan, as you mentioned, one person speaks up, it connects and empowers someone else, and the universe evolves and changes and improves. And that is the little miracle, Charlie, that you brought to us. And frankly, Charlie, you've helped it grow exponentially. So um I am just so thrilled that you're on the podcast here. I'm so thrilled that you will be joining us as a board member of I Have the Right To. And I'm so thrilled to continue to work and learn and be inspired um by you and your lovely wife Allie, who um I know we we all need very strong, wonderful people, you know, around us, and you've got a great one with you there. Ryan, you've done an amazing job on our first um podcast together. You know, job well done. And I'm looking forward to doing more podcasts with you in the future. And to our listeners, thank you so much for joining us today. The reason we are putting these difficult conversations out to the universe is to arm you with awareness, arm you with knowledge, to support a loved one in need, someone that you don't know who is hurt, that needs that support. And if we can do that, we can make this world tangibly, you know, a better place. So thank you for being part of the Aspire community, for listening, learning, and showing up for a world where everyone has the right to safety, dignity, and voice. And until next time, keep aspiring towards change. And remember, you have the right to be heard. Thank you so much for listening. Like and subscribe to the podcasts on all platforms. And if you enjoyed today's episode, please give us a five-star rating and tell your friends about Aspire. Follow us on social media at I Have the Right To. Learn more about our student and executive programming at our website at IHATHRightTwo.org.