E72: Aspire to End the Cycle (ft. Judge Charles Ehrlich) - Real Men, Real Conversations

In this week’s episode of Aspire - Real Men, Real Conversations, host Steve Peacock and co-host Jonas Wahl sit down with Judge Charles Ehrlich of the Philadelphia Court of Common Pleas for a thoughtful conversation about masculinity, accountability, and the role of the justice system in creating lasting change. Drawing on decades of experience presiding over criminal cases, Judge Ehrlich reflects on the patterns he has observed among young men, explaining how pride, retaliation, untreated trauma, and mental health challenges often contribute to cycles of violence. He also shares why true strength is not found in dominance, but in self-control, honesty, and the courage to seek help.

The conversation explores what meaningful accountability looks like beyond punishment, emphasizing rehabilitation, mental health treatment, education, and community support as essential tools for reducing future harm. Judge Ehrlich discusses the importance of early intervention through schools, recreation programs, faith communities, and trusted mentors, while highlighting how unresolved childhood trauma, including sexual abuse, can shape a person's life if left unaddressed. Together, the group examines how changing the conversation around masculinity can empower young men to make healthier choices before they ever enter a courtroom.

They close by discussing hope, personal growth, and the responsibility communities share in preventing violence before it occurs. Judge Ehrlich explains how consistent support can help individuals rebuild their lives, while encouraging young men to lead with integrity, ask for help when they need it, and define success by the positive impact they have on their families and communities. His closing reminder: everyone has the right to live in peace and build a life they are proud of.

To learn more about I Have The Right To's mission and programming, please visit https://ihavetherightto.org/

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Aspire, and I have the Right2 podcast, where we amplify voices, share stories, and drive change in the fight against sexual assault. We explore the critical issues surrounding student safety, institutional accountability, and survivor empowerment. In every episode, our goal is to provide insightful conversations with survivors, experts, educators, and advocates, giving you, our listener, valuable information, resources, and actionable steps to create safer environments and cultivate a culture of respect and consent.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

Welcome back to the Aspire Podcast. I'm Steve Peacock, a survivor and a board member of I Have the Right To. Aspire was created by the nonprofit I Have the Right To as a space for honest, meaningful communications about survivor advocacy, prevention, and what it truly takes to create safer communities. If these conversations resonate with you and you're interested in bringing them into your school, community, or workplace, we'd love to connect. I have the right to partners with K-212 schools, colleges, universities, and employers to provide age-appropriate programming for students, educators, parents, and employees on consent, healthy relationships, digital safety, leadership, and more, helping turn these conversations into action. You can reach us at takeaction at ihatheright to.org. Before we jump into our conversation with today's guest, I want to take a moment to introduce I Have the Right To college intern and facilitator, Jonas Wall. Jonas is a student at the University of Delaware, and he decided to intern with I Have the Right To because he's passionate about making sure students understand their rights and feel supported if they experience sexual assault. What drew him to this work is our focus on education and conversation, not just responding after harm occurs.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Welcome, Jonas. Thank you for having me. And today on Real Men Real Conversations, we are honored to welcome Judge Charles Ehrlich from the Philadelphia County Court of Common Peace. Judge Ehrlich has spent decades presiding over some of the most challenging cases in the criminal justice system, many involving violence, accountability, and the human capacity for change. Throughout his career, he's been deeply involved in addressing the root causes of violent behavior, mentoring young people, and advocating for a justice system that doesn't just punish, but rehabilitates. His perspective offers a rare glimpse into how masculinity, pride, and emotional regulation often intersect in the courtroom, and what true accountability and growth can look like in real life. So for our first question here, in your experience presiding over cases, do you see patterns in how masculinity shows up in the courtroom?

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Well, I think the problem with a lot of cases, violent cases, is that people feel that their masculinity has been threatened. Somebody said something on Instagram. One group said something about another group, and that leads to retaliation or violence, because people have unfortunately, and especially teenagers, but even young adults, have very little self-control, or they're in a back in a community where if you don't defend yourself, then you're considered weak. And I'm talking about defending yourself through violence.

SPEAKER_03 3:52

Great. Thank you. And and kind of building on that, once violence does occur and uh it then kind of ends up uh in your courtroom, what does accountability mean to you beyond just a sentence or legal consequence?

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Well, I think accountability varies based on what occurred. And when I say that, if we're talking about a homicide, that's different than if we're talking about an aggravated assault where nobody got seriously injured. The cause of what happened is one of the most important things because if that can be dealt with through counseling, if there are mental health issues or other things, you can try to prevent it. For me, accountability is first of all, even if it's violent that somebody is acknowledging what happened. Often people apologize for it. If they're going to state prison, I tell them there's a lot of programs there to deal with mental health issues, counseling, anti-violence, as well as education and other things that can give them the tools to be successful when they get out. If they're in the county prison, it's a little different because I directly supervise them. And there the issue becomes with the sentence what is necessary to prevent recidivism or prevent this from happening again. And that can be that there's mental health issues that need to be addressed. That can be other issues and bringing them back, especially the first year of parole or probation, to help get them through or navigate it can become very important so that the person can see A, you have an interest in this, and B, that you're holding them accountable by watching what they're doing. And you hold the keys to the jail. So if they're not cooperating, you could put them, try not to, but it's there, and that's why a lot of people do cooperate.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

And I want to get into something you mentioned earlier about strength. Many people equate strength with dominance. How is your time on the bench shaped what your understanding of real strength looks like?

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Well, real strength is not dominance, and real strength is not violence, and and real strength is not retaliation. Real strength is being able to not take the bait, not get involved in violence. We have too many groups. We don't call them gangs, we call them groups. Uh, they can be 64th Street versus 66th Street. And whatever has brought them together, when they see each other, violence breaks out. Or somebody else saw something on Instagram about their girlfriend said by somebody else. And then they are going to do something to that person, and then that person will retaliate. The strength is not to do that. The strength is just like you don't explode when somebody bothers you. The strength is that you try to keep your composure. And the strength is that you show your strength by not engaging in violence and trying to deal with it differently. Doesn't mean you don't defend yourself when you're attacked. Doesn't mean that you don't protect yourself.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

Great. Thank you. And I'm gonna I'm gonna take a step back, if you don't mind, which is just to get a little bit of insights into what influenced your approach and your views, kind of outside of the legal context and more in the context of your your approach, which I'd heard you speak about in other cases just with respect and and dignity. And just I always like to kind of dive in a little bit on what makes people tick and believe the way that they believe, so that uh these views that you're you're sharing, we know not only do we know what they're coming from, but then we can help teach others.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Well, I was a prosecutor and DA in the Philadelphia DA's office for 25 years. I handled uh, in addition to homicide cases, child abuse cases, sexual assault cases, domestic violence cases. But I was also involved in setting up treatment courts, treatment programs as well for those who it's appropriate for. We set up a mental health court, which has been very successful because we have one judge who knows what they're doing, and we were able to have uh people from the programs and everywhere else to deal with those people who are appropriate for mental health court. I was involved in setting up DUI treatment court for people who are uh committing DUI after DUI, drunk driving. And I've always felt that people who come through the criminal justice system, 60% are nonviolent. When I say nonviolent, they're not the shooters, the home invaders, the rapists, but they are people with mental health, drug and alcohol problems that need to be addressed. And unfortunately, the criminal justice system is actually the biggest deliverer of these services, along with education and other things, because we have the tools with the jail, not saying we're gonna use it, and people do things when they're forced to do things that they otherwise wouldn't, which is human nature. And if you can get people into mental health programs, drug treatment programs, education and other things, and job training, then people have the ability to try to move forward, which is what most people want to do. They don't want to live as low-level drug dealers, they don't want to live carrying a gun on the street, they don't want to live going to prison.

SPEAKER_03 9:47

Yeah, and tying that back to kind of the previous conversation about violence, and particularly as it's expressed by what it sounds like is young men. If if you could wave along and redefine masculinity for young men, what what qualities would you emphasize? Um, whether they come in front of you or just kind of living their everyday lives?

SPEAKER_01 10:11

Well, I think masculinity is that you want to go to school and learn, that you want to help in your community, that you want to do good in your family and for your family, and that you want to try to get ahead in life at work or at further education. That's masculinity. That's somebody who uh wants to do right in society. That's really masculinity.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

Yes, I agree. And I want to get into some of the warning signs that we might see. In your experience, what like like measures or like early warning signs do you see that a situation is heading towards irreversible harm?

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Well, you see when people aren't going to school, you see it when they're getting arrested over and over again for drug dealing, which can also lead to violence. You see it when they're carrying guns on the street, because that can lead to them using the guns. And you can see that they're just not trying to do the things I just said, and that instead they're uh living off the street, not on the street, but the street is more important. And the street pulls a lot of young people because a lot of young people feel they have no hope or that they have no future. And so they're gonna live, and if they die, they die, but in the meantime, they're gonna do what they want to do, uh, show their strength, which can lead to violence and other things.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Yeah, so when when you think about it, this is a little bit of a softball two-parter. One being that I do you think that young men are are taught enough about handling conflict without violence? And if that's not the case, you know what where are our best opportunities to do that?

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Well, the best opportunities are in schools, especially in middle schools where this can happen. Also the county prison, state prisons, either you attack or you get attacked, then that becomes the way you operate to survive. And also people have unfortunately seen violence at a young age, which can lead to them having post-traumatic stress disorder and other mental health issues that also get played out in violence. So I think it's about the schools, and it's about also people coming into the schools who did commit violence and did go to state prison, which they're doing those kind of programs to talk to these people because they have some credibility, I hope, to explain to especially people in middle school what not to do.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

That's a great answer. And I agree. Schools are a great place to instill these great values for young men. But when I was interning with you, I saw a wide range of ages in your courtroom from like 20-year-olds, 30-year-olds, these individuals who are no longer in school. From your view, what are the biggest missed opportunities for prevention before someone ever enters your courtroom outside of school?

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Well, I would say that community groups, uh, recreation, centers, things that can channel young people into productive activities, whether it's basketball leagues, whether it's other sports, I think that can be a great way for younger people to learn from coaches about growing up and growing up the right way.

SPEAKER_03 13:51

Thank you for that. And and, you know, one of the things, you've mentioned it a number of times, and it's something that's very personal and very important to me as well in my life and in the workplace, which is mental health, which, you know, we've certainly seen increases in the workplace of mental health leaves and attention, which I think is a very good thing, uh, since COVID, I don't for any minute believe that they didn't exist before COVID, but I really do believe that uh both with awareness and just with the sheer volume of change and the uh disruption, that it really brought a lot of the inside out. And I'm wondering, you know, as you think about, again, folks that come before you in the courtroom, you know, how often do you think mental health issues are a factor in those cases? And do you think that our current systems do enough to address mental health before it reaches that point?

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Well, I would say over 50% of my cases involve some type of mental health issues. But the problem with mental health, and especially with um men, young men even, is that mental health has a stigma. And I tell people with mental health issues who are under my supervision, it's no different than if you have diabetes and you take medication for it or some physical illness. And it's not your fault necessarily, but you want to you got to address it because especially I think among younger men into their mid-20s, they don't want to admit they have mental health issues. They don't want to admit what may have happened in their life got them to this point. And until it's too late and they've killed somebody necessarily, and uh then they're looking at, you know, potentially a life sentence, depending on on the facts and circumstances. So, people, we have to make it clear that mental health is no different than physical health, and it can be addressed the same way with treatment and medication. And if you do that, you can deal with it much more effectively.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

Yeah, and I I I would just add from my personal experience, um, again, that uh, and I didn't learn about this until a few years ago, that the average age of uh disclosure of child sexual abuse is 52 years old. So I think that really also speaks to the stigma, uh, the particular stigma associated with sexual uh violence, whether you are uh male or female, um, it is something that really hits the soul and uh is a traumatic, life-altering event, often in childhood where it's you're at least able to understand the world around you, much less people who oftentimes know you uh harming you in the in that way. And I think that does get locked away. So the the mental health kind of condition of this country, I'd say, absolutely is in the young folks like you've mentioned, but uh it's certainly not uh it's certainly not only them who are who are really struggling with uh getting help. And uh I think your work and your advocacy and and your promoting this is really going a long way to show all of those communities how important it is. So thank you for that message.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Well, Steve, you're right, especially about sexual assault. Many people who come in front of me who have done violence or are recidivist criminals or whatever, you read the pre-sentence investigation report, and they were sexually abused. They're very young or 10 years old, 11, and nobody wants to talk about it. No male voluntarily comes forward and says, I was sexually abused. It's just considered, you talk about masculinity and weakness, considered the ultimate, which I understand, but that leads to other things happening, like you say, as they move on in life.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

I agree. It's so important to address these root causes of crime. And I want to sort of sift to like a more hopeful mindset. When somebody enters your courtroom and, you know, maybe you sentence them to like prison or parole, what does genuine growth look like to you when someone has caused this serious harm? And have you seen examples of individuals who have transformed?

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Well, I see it with um people in the county prison sentences. I give state prison, I don't see people in the future. That's really supervised by the parole board and everything. Although sometimes it comes back and I can see what they've done. But what I see with growth is that they've completed their drug treatment program in custody and they're now doing one outpatient. I see that they did job training even in the prison, but certainly out of the prison. I see them getting a job. I I see them growing by moving forward in their lives. The issue of recidivism is let's get them to that point and we cut the recidivism down and we all benefit. And I'll give you one example. I've had people who I had in the county prison or made them go through drug treatment, whatever. And a year later, you know, they're different and they thank you. And I always say to them, you took the opportunity. We gave it to you, but you should get all the credit because you took the opportunity and you did it, and now you're in a different place and you can try to move forward.

SPEAKER_03 19:41

Yeah, and let's say as you think about kind of when you're in that position to have that conversation, something's already happened. Um, there's a reason they're there. And you alluded to some efforts in uh communities like sports and things of that nature. But what do you what what do you think that communities can do to intervene earlier where there might be some signs of stress, uh distress, or aggression that that haven't then um, you know, resulted in criminal activity?

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Well, that's where churches can be involved, pastors who can have a connection to people, teachers or counselors are also very important because they're going to see things at a time before more serious things happen, and to try to get them to deal with it, whether it's through counseling or other things. And having the connection between the school counselors and the mental health or drug and alcohol or other services is very important because a lot of this stuff will be seen before they commit crimes. And the other part is the juvenile system. The juvenile system should play a strong role to like deal with it before they go out and shoot somebody. Deal with it, you know, it's a car theft. People say, ah, it's a car theft, no big deal. But it's it's telling us that there's a problem here and we got to deal with it.

SPEAKER_03 21:11

Yeah, and and and you know, I alluded to it earlier as well that sadly, um upwards of 80, 90 percent of particularly children who are uh abused or are done so by people they know. They are family members, they are church uh community members or leaders, they are school teachers. And um, you know, I I say this as a uh something I never would have said five years ago before I started talking publicly, uh, so as not to uh kind of raise too much alarm. But I I think there's so much that uh kind of lives in the shadows that if we don't talk about it, we're never gonna be able to prevent it. And uh so when you you know when you think about that framework, what do you think there are things that we could do within those institutions that can better help protect uh the children, the students in their care uh from harm that we know the vast majority of them are not involved in. However, uh, you know, these predators are extremely skilled at uh kind of finding these uh roles and opportunities and grooming. And uh, you know, that's the type of stuff that uh you know violate, as I said earlier, violate the trust of a child early, and uh, you know, just about anything can happen.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Well, I think there it has to do with education and making sure that kids very young know often it's done in the family, nobody should be touching you. Nobody should be going into the bathroom with you, nobody should be giving you money to do certain things or showing you pictures. And if it is happening, you need to tell an adult. And it's not about you doing anything wrong, you should not consider that, but rather that somebody else did something wrong, and we need to deal with it. Because I think that for younger people, children or even teenagers, the person doing it can be a very powerful presence in their life. It can be mother's boyfriend, it can be a stepfather, it can be the father, whatever. You know, young people, kids don't necessarily think that they can fight these people because their power is so much less because they're living in the home there or they're dependent on other things. And plus, when you think, just think back to when you were 10 years old and some adult try to do something or, you know, yelling at you or doing something, that can uh shake you up and it can affect how you would respond in terms of trying to resist or deal with it.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

I agree. And I sort of want to shift the focus a little bit towards you again. And as a judge, you hold tremendous amounts of authority. How do you personally demonstrate that power and responsibility to individuals in your courtroom to not instill fear, but instead promote change?

SPEAKER_01 24:26

Well, when I sentence somebody, I try to explain what the sentence is and why and what's expected. And I'm talking about the lower level. I'm not talking about the people doing the killing and things like that. And I try to say to them, we want to work with you. I want you to do this. We'll work with you, even if there's ups and downs. And there are ups and downs with drug treatment and mental health treatment and medication and everything else. Just work with us. And that's why I bring them back after the first 45 days to see what's going on. And even more 60 days that first year. I want to show them respect, because for many people, they've never gotten respect in their life and they're a little bit shocked. Somebody in a robe who doesn't know them cares about them. And it's sort of sad about that. But the point is if you can develop a connection where they see that you're trying to help them and you're working with them, not just trying to jam them, that can go a long way. And I've even had people walk in the courtroom, will tell me, look, I'm on your supervision, but I I need drug treatment immediately, or I need this, or I need that. A lot of the criminal justice system or court system, I think, is about respect. No matter what your decision is, no matter who you're dealing with, people want to feel that they were respected, even if they don't agree with you. And that's how talking to people properly, trying to explain things, trying to make sure they understand that you have um you're you want to make them move forward. You have an investment in their future. Because if they do move forward, it's better for all of us.

SPEAKER_03 26:12

Yeah. And as as I'm listening to you, I do not spend a lot of time around the court system. I'm in financial services, so full full disclosure. Now, do you think your point of view is like commonly practiced in the in the courtroom? Is it taught in law schools? Is it kind of part of the job, or do you feel you're kind of infusing your own personal belief system that uh with all of us listening, I'm sure we agree is such a powerful message to people who have not seen that before?

SPEAKER_01 26:48

It's definitely not taught in law school, I can guarantee you that. However, when judges uh start in the criminal program, we have an education program. And we talk to them about the availability of programs and different ways that you can sentence people. And most judges want to help people, even though it may appear that they're not, but it depends on what people have done. And bringing people back, these status listings I'm talking about once they're on your parole or probation or whatever, to watch them and help them that first year is very rewarding. It's a lot more rewarding than putting people in jail, although that's part of the job because you're working with people, as my staff calls it, social work Fridays when we have these statuses, but they don't take that long. It's an hour, hour and a half at the most. It doesn't cost anything, but can go a long way. And we talk to the new judges about it, and a lot of them are very interesting. I think I started as a judge 13 years ago, and we've had an education program almost since I started. And this is a big component. We also have people come in and talk about um uh sexual assault, domestic violence, so people can understand the victims and some of the uh components of all of that, so that the judges, no matter where they came from, they may have never handled a criminal case, but they're in criminal. They can get all the same information as somebody who's been there for a long time. And I think it's helped. Others do this, can't force anybody to do it. But I think that most judges seem to like it and utilize it. Again, it also depends on judicial personality, as the world depends on everybody's personality as to how people act and what they want to do and how they feel about things.

SPEAKER_03 28:41

Yeah, and and it just makes me think as as you probably know, we work in all sorts of schools that uh you just struck up uh uh a new idea for a Judge Ehrlich program in law schools, because I I think the what what what you're sharing is extremely powerful, can be so beneficial.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

I mean, I think unfortunately, law schools they got to teach the law, they got to teach to different subjects. I think if people do internships with judges, they get to see what goes on, as Jonas did when he was with us for a month. And as my summer interns do, or fall or spring interns who are either undergrads or in law school, they really get to see what it's like on the inside and how things go. That's the best way you can learn. I mean, some people may have a social work background or other things that help them. I think law schools are about giving you the skills to be a lawyer. And the truth is, law is an adversarial system. And so it doesn't promote what I'm talking about because it's not really, you got to defend the defendant, your client, or if it's civil, you're representing. Now, some people have better skills at resolving things, which is where this conflict avoidance can be, and trying to explain to their client, hey, this is a good thing, let's do this, and this minimizes the costs and whatever. But uh, I don't think you'll get law schools unless they teach something about sentencing practices, maybe throwing that in there and things like that to teach. And the truth is that people who want to do this are gonna be drawn to working in a defense public defender's office, maybe a DA's office, things like that, community legal services.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

Yeah, no, I no, I appreciate that. Some of it was tongue-in-cheek, but I do think that uh, you know, this it's these are people dealing with uh people who either harm or are harmed or have been harmed. And uh uh, you know, when we kind of go back to what Jonas was was talking about and thinking about, you know, how the system uh prepares people for uh life after, um, you know, do you believe that the the system does enough to support that rehabilitation and and particularly for young men, or or do we've got uh uh a bit of work ahead of us?

SPEAKER_01 31:15

Well, I think we have a bit of work ahead of us because I think that um it's not so simple, it's not a magic carpet ride. But I think that you try to give people the tools, you try to work with them, you you try to help them whether trying to find a job or counseling. Ultimately it's up to them. Um but I think it depends on the judge, it depends on the person in terms of there are resources there, there's a lot of resources out there that have been created to help people, but I uh think that we have also a lot of work to do, and it's not an easy thing.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

Definitely. And when I was interning under you, I learned so many valuable lessons. But for the young men listening who want to lead with integrity, what's one major piece of advice that you would like to give to them about taking accountability before harm occurs?

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Well, I think um being honest, you make mistakes. And um, being honest about what issues you might have that you need to address. And I'm not even talking about criminal issues, but being honest with yourself and being honest with others. Integrity is about trying to live a life that is true to yourself, which is different for every person. And a lot of times because people don't want to really deal with the issues or don't want to deal with the problems, it affects how they live. Integrity is also being, you know, not lying and not doing things to people and everything else, but ultimately you want to live your life, and today it's a lot easier to do that. It used to be that people were afraid to admit, for example, that they were gay or lesbian or this is a whole different world we live in. However, there's still stigmas in some communities about that. And it's trying to be able to live with be the person you should be. And um, not exactly, I didn't say it exactly correctly, but to be a somebody who is able to live life to the fullest if possible. And that isn't about earning a lot of money, and that being content with what you have or what you're doing makes life so much better.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

Yeah, and and and relatedly, just an and you know, another uh other thoughts for young men listening. What would you say to someone who feels trapped by this anger, whether it be from their community or upbringing, trauma, feelings of pride or fear, but is really looking to make better choices?

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Get counseling. Find a place, it's available. Talk to the school counselor if you're in school about getting referrals where to go. Um talk to people who you're comfortable with and you're close to in your family, and maybe they can connect. Don't keep it inside of you, but try to figure out how to deal with it by getting it out of you appropriately. So to me, it can be your grandfather, it can be your pastor, it can be a teacher that you really like. And a lot of times disclosure about things comes from teachers and others where people finally come forward and are comfortable. But the point is you got to start talking about it with somebody who can give you guidance on how to deal with it.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

I completely agree. Seeking outside help is really a always a great first step. And we like to end these episodes by uh having you give an I have the right to statement, for example, I have the right to seek justice or anything along those lines. So if you had to choose one I have the right-to statement to share with our audience out there who are a lot of young men, what would you choose?

SPEAKER_01 35:18

I have the right to live in peace and to uh achieve whatever I can achieve in life and to live life that I am proud of.

SPEAKER_03 35:29

I love that. Thank you so much for sharing of yourself today. Thank you uh so much for what you do in your community to help move people's lives forward, uh, that there are opportunities uh and that uh people don't need to be defined by their uh worst thing that's happened to them or the worst thing that they've done. As we close today's conversation, we're holding a lot of gratitude, Charles, for sharing your journey. And we want to thank you and everyone listening for being part of this ongoing conversation about what it truly means to be a real man in a world that needs more courage, empathy, and accountability, much we have just heard about over the last hour. If this episode resonated with you, we invite you to share it, continue the conversation, and support us. If you're looking for ways to bring these conversations into your schools or communities, I have the right to partners with K212 schools, colleges, universities, workplaces to provide trauma-informed programming on consent, healthy relationships, and leadership. Thank you for being part of the Aspire community, for listening, learning, and showing up in a world where everyone has the right to safety, dignity, and voice. Until next time, keep aspiring toward change, and remember you have the right to be her.

SPEAKER_02 36:54

Thank you so much for listening. Like and subscribe to the podcast on all platforms, and if you enjoyed today's episode, please give us a five star rating and tell your friends about Aspire. Follow us on social media at I Have the Right Too. Learn more about our student and executive programming at our website at IhatherightTo.org.