The Investor Relations Podcast

What Investors See That Founders Don't — Inside the VC Decision Process — Leon Eisen, PhD

• Joshua Wilson

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A quantum physicist who built the world's first FDA-cleared wearable medical monitor — then crossed to the VC side and finally understood why he only raised $20M instead of $200M. What Leon Eisen, PhD discovered on the other side of the table will change how you think about every investor conversation you've ever had.

Dr. Leon Eisen, PhD is a 4× founder, venture capitalist, and creator of Fundables OS™ — a fundraising operating system that has helped 100+ Seed and Series A teams become fundable. He is a Venture Partner at NetworkVC (Silicon Valley syndicate fund, 200+ LPs), a Senator at the World Business Angels Investment Forum (WBAF, G20 affiliated), and CEO of Venture Growth Group. In this episode, Leon pulls back the curtain on the VC decision-making process — how investors actually evaluate founders, why the logical brain is the last stop (not the first), and what truly separates a fundable company from one that keeps getting passed. Whether you're raising your first round or running a public company roadshow, the investor psychology Leon unpacks here applies across every capital raise conversation.

🎯 What We Cover:

  • Why founders pitch to the wrong brain — and the three-brain decision framework investors actually use
  • The difference between "asking for money" and offering equity in a growing asset — and why it changes everything
  • How to control the investor meeting through intelligence and preparation, not dominance
  • Why raising capital too early costs you more than you think — and the right time to raise
  • What VCs mean by "being in the flow" — and how they identify which companies are riding a trend vs. fighting one
  • The Fundables OS™ approach: why becoming fundable is a company-building exercise, not a pitch exercise
  • Momentum + charisma: the intersection Leon used to raise his first $1M during the 2008 financial crisis
  • How imposter syndrome silently kills founder credibility in investor meetings — and how to eliminate it
  • Why syndicate VCs have to sell themselves to founders, not just the other way around
  • The consciousness framework: how self-awareness separates entrepreneurs who scale from those who stall

🤝 Connect with Leon Eisen, PhD: 🌐 https://leoneisen.com 💼 https://www.linkedin.com/in/leon-eisen/ ▶️ Venture Grove with Leon Eisen (YouTube)

📩 Connect with Joshua Wilson: Have a question about investor relations, capital markets, or building your IR strategy? Reach out directly. 💼 https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshuabrucewilson/ 🌐 https://www.theinvestorrelationspodcast.com/

Disclaimer: Joshua Wilson is a licensed Florida real estate broker and holds FINRA Series 79 and Series 63 licensure. The content of this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered legal, financial, or compliance advice. All views and opinions expressed by the host and guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the policies or positions of any regulatory agency, organization, or employer. Listeners should consult their own legal counsel, compliance teams, or financial advisors to ensure adherence to applicable regulations, including SEC, FINRA, and other industry-specific requirements. This podcast does not constitute a solicitation or recommendation for any financial products or services.

Let’s Connect on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshuabrucewilson/

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Chris Williams:

Tuesday, February 17th, 12.05 PM. Josh, let's take it away, man.

Joshua Wilson:

Cool. Stand by, let me get the screen set. Perfect. Good day, everybody. Welcome to the Investor Relations Podcast Show. We are so honored to have you, listening in, as we kind of uncover the world of investor relations, the conversations and communications between GP, LP, between the visionary starting an idea, maybe in their garage, and to the strategic partner who's going to open the checkbook and let that happen. Now, in our network, we reached out to, a guy named Leon to… to go into his mind, and, you know, we looked at his website, and it says, become a growth champion. Grow your business with a billionaire strategic mindset. And then, you know, on his LinkedIn, as just giving you a little view into it, 4X founder, VC investor, and venture partner. Creator of Fundables OS, helped 100-plus seed and Series A teams become fundraise ready. Part of Network VC, Mr. Leon, welcome to the show.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

No, thank you very much. I'm really happy to be here, and thanks for inviting me.

Joshua Wilson:

Yeah, you got it. So, Leon, as we're going through this, you, my director mentioned your hat, and you said you have many hats that you wear, and I think entrepreneurs and investors wear many hats, but tell us about that hat.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

That you're wearing specifically. A lot, a lot. First of all, I started like a scientist. I am PhD in quantum physics and quantum computers from Weizmann Institute of Science. And, for 15 years, I was a scientist. My first, you know, my first life, I call it. Then I broke in my head and moved to engineer business. I became engineer, because I wanted to see something that really works, because science is something that… phenomena, all about phenomena. And now I was looking for something working. And I learned how to become engineer, what is the tolerances that scientists doesn't understand, usually. So, and then in 2008, 2009, I opened my own company based on all my experience in quantum physics, in lasers, in… In matter-light interaction. And I created my company, and finally became, and it released the word first, if they clear it, wearable medical monitoring. No, people… wearables commodity today, but somebody did it first, so it was me. Fortunately, or unfortunately for some other people, maybe. And, For 12 years, I ran this company, like CEO, I was the founder of this company, and at some point, I understood that that's enough. So… Right? Have to change my head. And I moved to the dark side of the business. This is what I call it. I became investors, so I joined venture capital fund, like, a venture partner. And… Suddenly, I understood why I raised only 20 mil, not 200ml. Because I didn't know what I didn't know. And I learned this only from other side of the… Of the table. So, and at the same time, many companies came to me, we couldn't invest to everybody, but they have good potential, and first I started to help these companies for free, then I understood that, and they offered me some payment. And I got it, okay, so maybe I have to build my consulting company at the same time. So, companies which we do not invest in. we can… I can help them to become fundable. So this way, I started my consulting business. I'm in Hubble today, Hubble Social, where I offer consulting business. And I'm working with many companies on fundraising, but not fundraising. I do not do fundraising for them, because I'm a venture capitalist. What I do, I prepare the company to become fundable. It's a different story at all, so what does mean fundable? It's not just fundraising. It's, to build all departments, so marketing, sales, so all these traction, financials, so it's actually to build a company. Again. And even, fix some culture problems, because investor invests in a good culture. Hmm. So… And I wrote the book, it will… I actually wrote two books, but the first book I put aside is Quantum Business Thinking, where I moved or applied quantum physics into business, how to think like a gut, you know, so… Like in nature? Nature, and then, based on my experience, like, entrepreneur and investor for the last 20 years, I decided to to write the book about… it's called Invisible Game. This is what people don't understand. People learn about how to make deck, how to make… pitch, all this stuff, but people don't understand investors' mindset. So I started to learn a lot of books about spires. intelligence. And this is very, very familiar stuff, so I wrote this book, it will be published soon, so I'm working on publishing this. And this is where I dedicated the full chapter to investor… entrepreneur or founder dynamics. How they should connect, and how founders should behave in the meeting, starting from how founders should get into the meeting, enter into the room. What to see, how to see, how to smile, everything works. Everything is important. And finishing how to finish the meeting, and how to… how to get in, updates, and in… in follow-up. That's all. All my heart. Huts, hearts. In my heart.

Joshua Wilson:

Yeah. Leon, as part of your story, you said you moved to the dark side. Right? The… why do you think you called it the dark side rather than just the other side of the table? Because I've interviewed a couple thousand people, you know, from entrepreneur, they have a decent-sized exit, then they move over to the investor side, and I get a similar sentiment, where it's almost they miss the founder side of the table. And they call it the dark side of the table. So, what is your viewpoint on that?

Leon Eisen, PhD:

I think… Actually, my perspective is, I'm entrepreneur by my heart. And… When I moved to… to other side, I had to think like an investor, I have to say, no. I have to behave like jerk. Sometimes. I have to be rude sometimes… rude sometimes. So, it requires, from me, a very, to be very disciplined in… because it's… we're managing LP's money. And… Accountability is a very important stuff here. Also, in startup, I manage… I don't manage money. I work with investors like partners. I gave up part of my work, part of my assets to investors, so it's like, you know, you build the… You build a building, you have one flat there, or that one apartment, or the other apartment you sold. So, this is something like this. I saw… they are partners. And when I became an investor, I understood that that it's actually a big problem. For me, it was a big problem to talk to investors. Every time, even I raise the load, and huge experience, every time I get into the meeting with investors. I didn't feel equal. Never felt equal. So that's why I called it dark side, because we have to change something inside. to become an investor, and this change It's not the best part of what I'm doing.

Joshua Wilson:

what is it that you had to change inside of you? You had to change something inside, like, you felt like… was it imposter syndrome? Was it, a feeling of worth? Was it a feeling of insecurity? Or below?

Leon Eisen, PhD:

No, no, it's just, When you talk to somebody who has imposter syndrome, and usually most of the founders, they have imposter syndrome, talking to investors, because investors, in their eyes, investor is in authority, not partner. And it's when you… and this is what I don't like. So, I try to teach startup and talk to startup like we are equal. He didn't came to me to ask for money. He came to me to… Over his assets. This is a totally different, perspective, you know, angle.

Joshua Wilson:

Say that again?

Leon Eisen, PhD:

dumped.

Joshua Wilson:

Yeah, repeat that for me.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

Well, I want to make sure.

Joshua Wilson:

I get it.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

Yeah, founder came to me, to offer his assets. The most important, to offer half of his baby.

Joshua Wilson:

Yeah.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

and behaviors like having, like, a low level of having some imposter syndrome. So… every time I try to equalize, I try to talk to him, explain him that he… He's going to sell me something. Not I sell him my money. He came to sell me, so I buy. These. So it's like, it's slightly different dynamics. And… They are very surprised about it, usually. So… I try to… I try to follow these dynamics, and when I raised capital, I met a lot of investors, who… Just use this. Use this leverage. And this is not good. This is what I didn't like, that's why I'm going… I'm here. I have a different approach.

Joshua Wilson:

Yeah. Well, you're once a founder, once an entrepreneur, always will be an entrepreneur, right? You see a problem or something you don't like, and you're making a change to the system or the process, and you're trying to do something. Now, let's go back on the light side of things. When you were a founder. raising capital and building stuff for, you know, four-time exits. Walk us through some of the highlights of your career, and maybe some milestones that you've reached in terms of successes, or exits, or capital raise, so we could get an understanding of maybe some of the things you've gone through, and then I'll ask you about maybe some challenges along the way.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

No, it feels the fault. It was an interesting challenge. I raised my first million in the middle of the crisis, 2008, 2009. And, it was totally against everything, what people told me. So, somehow I found some, in… intersection between momentum and charisma. And this is the most important, this is what I promote today, that entrepreneurs should have charisma, and… and momentum at the same time. So the key challenge to find this intersection… I did it Unconsciously. But then, I started to analyze what I did, and what I've done, and I understood, this is exactly where people actually race. So, this is a challenge. Another challenge was to build the device world first. It didn't work for a long time. And nobody did it. Still, I can number FDA clearance wearable devices. Apple doesn't have FDA clearance, just algorithm for ECG, so they don't have FDA clearance. So, here is an old device, like medical device, like you can find in the hospital. So, accuracy is the most important, and to reach needed accuracy. It's a huge challenge, because we… I developed totally new technology. It's around Ulna Bonne here, it's not here, like all other devices doing. It's not medical here. Ulna Bonne is something like medical place. for medical devices. And it was a huge challenge. Then, it was a challenge to deal with investors when they became investors. And I learned it the hard way. You know, how to deal with investors who are not so much, patient. They won't result all the time. Sometimes they even cry. And, yeah, so I learned how to deal with them, and I learned what is it good investor and bad investor, what is it good money and bad money, what is it liabilities, money like liabilities, and money like for growth? And this is what I'm writing about today, so my… each post I'm doing today, every day on LinkedIn almost, it's it's my own experience transformed into some writing and transformed into some advices for founders.

Joshua Wilson:

Amen.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

But the most… the most important challenge and most difficult challenge we experience today. Because I'm introvert, and I had to get out of my… Come for Zoom. To be… to post, to make video, to make podcasts, to talk. publicly, that… I still don't like, it's stressful for me. So, this is a main challenge, and writing the book, because actually, everything what I did before. I'm a very good sales guy. I think so, because I sold a lot, it's a fact. And I like connections, I like talking, I like meetings, conferences, so some people around, many people around. And when I left the company. Like CEO, I'm currently, chairman of this company, so you know what is a chairman. It's a big boss, no responsibilities. It's the best place to be. So, yeah. And… Only me and computer. Not 100 people around, only me and computer. And this is… Still is my challenge.

Joshua Wilson:

Yeah, I get it. I get it. There's something in you, being introverted and, you know, but still willing to push past your own challenges and comforts, out of your comfort zone, to create something. Your drive and motivation to create those things are greater than the pain and fear you experience when doing it. Right? And that's why, essentially, that's why you're doing it. what are you hoping to change? If there's, like, one milestone or one thing in this world that you could look back and, you know, go, hey, I made a difference there, I changed that, what is it that you're striving for and willing to be not comfortable for?

Leon Eisen, PhD:

First of all, I couldn't tune myself to make this job in the beginning, because I felt like by polarity, so my brain… I'm investor and entrepreneur, I still, co-founded many companies, and I still, manage… like, entrepreneur And so it's, like, some kind of bipolar disorder, bipolar disorder happens. Until I understood one thing, there is a common denominator. And this common denominator is, I want to help founders. And everything, what I am doing, became immediately Of this. How do I help? I help to raise capital, I invest. Like, venture capitalists. I, write the book, I teach. I meet… I'm a mentor in Founder Institute and other grad accelerators, so I… I help them. So, I held by many way. But the key that I'm helping founders to grow their dream. And this is what I'm doing today.

Joshua Wilson:

Yeah, super cool. How much money do you think you have raised in your… Lifespan in your career.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

About 20 mil.

Joshua Wilson:

Okay, very cool.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

For some, it's big, for some, not. But for me, it's enough, because a lot of stuff, we were doing bootstrapping. So if, for example, I would raise for the whole companies. 50, 60 million, but I decided to do bootstrapping, I put my own money, so I didn't have to raise a lot. And still, for example, I just write about it. Still, my… My opinion is… that… You should raise capital. As late as possible. Because, first of all, you create your company, you create your baby. Why you have to give up half of this baby to somebody else in the beginning? And what this beginning is dedicated for. You pay for liabilities. Something that doesn't… it's like a back loan, bad loan. Well, to close your previous, loans, or something like this. This is what happens when you don't have business yet, because startup is not a business. Startup is something… A wishful doing. In the beginning. And… then you start growing, if somehow you found money, and found your time, and found your founders, 4 free founders, so you don't have to pay for… to hire people. to bring company to some initial growth. In this case, you raise… you raise not for liabilities, you raise for growth. And this is the mantra I'm sharing with all entrepreneurs.

Joshua Wilson:

Yeah. Man, I like that. when it comes to… you… you want to teach people the mindset of an investor, right? Momentum and charisma, right? We want to see, you know, that we're investing in growth, not a liability, right? So there's a few, like… shifts that the founder must… the founder, whether it's a founder with a startup idea, or whether it's a public company CEO, and they're looking for money, there must be a mindset shift when meeting with investors and to communicate that, too. So, kind of walk us through some of the things that you think are really important, whether you're raising, you know, money for a startup. Or raising, you know, a $100 million pipe, or whatever the case may be. What are some of your thoughts on The mindset shift of the founder, the CEO.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

everything is shifted, because, you know, you… first of all, mindset shift that you don't have to… people usually come to ask for money. No. They should come. to share… Their vision, their experience, and their business. Not ask for money. So, ask for advice, share their business, but never ask for money. So, I built, in my book, Invisible Game, I built 5 dynamic control models. So, dynamic control of relationship with investors. First of all, the first mind shift happens when we are talking about how to deal with meeting progression.

Joshua Wilson:

So…

Leon Eisen, PhD:

to me, and this is what I allow founders. But they usually don't take this opportunity, because they don't understand this. So… How to control the meeting. Founder should control the meeting with investor. Not… not investor. And, in this, in this context, I like the book Pitch Anything by Oren Klaff.

Joshua Wilson:

Because he's really talking about how to control the meeting.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

And not let investors control the meeting. Unfortunately, 99% of founders, they… they even can start this, but they cannot finish this, because they are not ready. In order to control the meeting.

Joshua Wilson:

You have to be fully ready, not like a jerk or something like this.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

And Oren Klaff is talking about from jerk point of view, but I'm talking about from intelligent guy point of view. You're controlled by your intelligence. You're controlled by your wisdom. And you're controlled by your, Capabilities and, interaction. This is what really controlled the meeting.

Joshua Wilson:

Yeah. Yeah, he talks about controlling the frame in Pitch Anything. A great book for, he talks about, you know, pitching to the mammalian brain, right? People are so anxious and so fearful, and, you know, you know, as soon as you start getting into the weeds of things, as soon as we start talking in, you know, like, in the depths, you start losing their interest to say yes. That book, I think, was a monumental book that I think many people overlook when it comes to raising capital. And Oren has done a fantastic job in his career at that. His second book, Flip the Script, was equally as good.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

Yeah.

Joshua Wilson:

Really, really, really solid. Yeah, so Warren, if you're listening out there, we'd love to have you come on the show and talk to me and Leon. We'd have some fun together. But, you know, Leon, let's now go to the dark side. Right? As we're sitting on the other end of the table, you have a different… you have a different empathy for the founder coming into the office, you know, asking for money, because you're, you know, you work in VC, and, you know… So, first talk to us about, you know, the… through the lens of DC, what are the kind of deals and stages that you're looking for? What's, you know, what kind of check writing? Like, what are you… what's the perfect opportunity? And then I'll ask you some questions about the founders walking in the room.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

Yeah. So, about our company, NetworkVC, we are syndicate funds. Our main… we have some different funds as well, military fund, that is not syndicate, but actually, our main… our main vehicle is a syndicate fund in Silicon Valley. We have more than 200, LPs. And we are offering the check between $100,000 to $500,000. And we are investing… we co-invest with big… Guys. And somehow, our challenge to convince the startup in a very good position, having 1, 2 million, $3 million in revenue, to convince to take our small pie, small money for their small pie. And this is a key challenge, so we have to show myself, ourself, and to sell ourselves to founder, like a partner, with some value, not only money. And this is the most important style what we are doing.

Joshua Wilson:

Yeah, yeah, man, that's super cool. Yeah, I like syndicated funds and, the approach to it. So, you go out, you find opportunities. How do you find opportunities, and what kind of opportunities are you looking to be involved in for that 1 to 500K?

Leon Eisen, PhD:

Now, first of all, our, our LPs, so I am working for LPs.

Joshua Wilson:

So I follow their requirements. Maybe I like something different.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

I like healthcare, but we do not invest in healthcare. So, SaaS AI, something that really… In the middle of the flow. Because if you are in the middle of the flow, or in the center of the floor, you don't have to… to move. Your flow takes you, and takes you, and… And you move together. So… This is what they like, something that really, grow very quickly. Something, like, lovable, or something like this, so… So the most challenge to identify such a company in a level where they have 1 to 3 million in revenue, that this company exactly in the middle of the flow, in the center of the flow, and we will invest, we will grow together. For example, recently, I brought amazing company in law tech, or legal tech. amazing company, growing, and huge… so… I don't know, I like founders, not a lot of founders like this. But our LPs and partners, they decided to pass because, you know. This is what I was writing today in my post on LinkedIn. I invite everybody to read, about the pattern. Because, what is a flow? Flow, or trend, is a pattern, and characterized by some metrics. And these metrics, if you connect all these dots, creates a pattern. So, we have some patterns where we can invest, and where we cannot invest. And we follow this pattern. Even the company is very good, and has a huge potential, but if this company doesn't fit this pattern, we do not invest.

Joshua Wilson:

Yeah.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

And each investor, each VC has his own pattern.

Joshua Wilson:

Okay, so you have your charter, your investment thesis on which kind of deals you guys say yes to, and then you go out and look for those opportunities, right? Now, when you're looking at an opportunity, you have, you know, your… some of the things you're writing about and teaching about, which I can't wait to take a look at your book when you're ready to share that.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

I think I'll share with you, definitely. I'll send you, yeah.

Joshua Wilson:

Please, thank you. You know, you talk about, the, you know, people are not risk, you know, investing in, you know, the liability. Your job as a founder is to de-risk the mindset of this, de-risk the opportunity. opportunity. Show them the growth, and give them an opportunity to be a part of that growth, right? And that's a little bit of a mindset shift that they need to do. What other things do you write about in that book? Maybe from your, even, background in philosophy and studying, you know, you know, how… how the world works. How do you put that into, investor relations practice?

Leon Eisen, PhD:

First of all, everything is about a brain. So, chemistry. And this is what I learned from Pitch Anything and everywhere. So, I was writing… also, I was writing about all three. Three brains, not two brains, three brains, because investor… Has three brains that really influence Two brains that influence, and third brain, logical cortex, that doesn't influence, and just follow the first two. So, the first brain is a crocodile brain, you're right? give pass of their idea. So if recently, recently one founder just claimed everything, we are biggest, we are better, so it didn't pass this emotional part. And, what passes is some numbers, because if crocodile… investors, crocodile brain, not everybody else, investors, crocodile brain. see the big numbers, just, wow, that's… I'm gonna buy it. I wanna… I like it. So this is what we like. Big, good numbers, great traction. So, immediately it passed to their social brain. And social brain is a different story. Because if I… I did something wrong if I invested in some company which is closed and didn't good well. So, what people will say about me? So, it's very important, how do I look In this market.

Joshua Wilson:

Right.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

I lost one, I lost two, I lost three, that's all. My business is finished. I'm not an entrepreneur, I'm an investor. So, I have to pass through this brain. So, okay, if I will make this… that's why FOMO is working. Former is exactly this stuff. Okay, so I should understand, if I follow the formula. would I lose, or win? I don't know, and… okay. And then, if I pass this stuff, okay, maybe it's not so risky, and I would… will lose my… won't lose my face, I move to a logical brain. And start to think logically. But what's interesting, I learned from my experience and others' experience. That, usually, ideas and logics doesn't work. So when you start from logical brain, You lose all the time.

Joshua Wilson:

All the sun.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

Yeah, so you should start from very primitive brain, and Consciously move this idea through all these brains in the beginning, and then, if they move from this, go to logical brain.

Joshua Wilson:

Yeah. This is… this is so good that, so let me just recap that we have the croc brain, which likes momentum and charisma, right? We tend to like that.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

Exactly.

Joshua Wilson:

We have the social brain, which is, like, how will people, you know, how will this fit into my, you know, my family dynamics, my relationships.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

My…

Joshua Wilson:

I don't want a fear of missing out, that FOMO. What will the other investors think? And that's where you can, you know, an investor relations tip is, you know, we're in conversations right now with this group, or with this group, or with your friend. Your friend actually referred you to us, right? So that's where those kind of things happen. And then the last Micro yes that you have to get through is the logical brain. I think what you… what I'm hearing you say is a lot of people, founders, especially technical founders, they start with that logical brain, they come in, and they're pitching, here's what we're doing, we're gonna decentralize using blockchain and Ethereum, and blah blah blah, and all of this stuff, and you're like. I think a lot of investors go, I have no clue what you're talking about, but they kind of, they lose that opportunity right there, because they're pitching to the logic, instead of going through the proper sequence of investor relations decision-making, right?

Leon Eisen, PhD:

Yes. And the worst thing they start to talk about, I mean, founders, they start like this, we developed XYZ. I don't care what you develop at all. I don't know the problem, I don't know the market. Why should I care about what they develop? They think something they developed is cool, but it's not cool. I see thousands like this every day. So… They don't understand this. Even after I, train them. Again, they come back, and again, we developed… no. So, starting from different stuff. For example, we sell this for some team in the company. And, or, millions of people suffering from this stuff. And even worse, They start, we develop these, and we sell to insurance companies. I ask. You sell to the company, or you sell to the people within the company? And… Unless I understand this difference. They won't succeed.

Joshua Wilson:

and it's because we're bucking up against, we're fighting against human psychology, right? We're trying to get past how the brain operates in making decisions, and how we were wired to make decisions. Yeah, I really like that. So your book is kind of going to walk through the process of this. As we're… as we're learning more about you, we definitely want you to, you know, share, share the book link when you, when you're ready to go. When, not to put the pressure on you, but when do you think, when do you think it's gonna be ready to kind of share with the, with the world?

Leon Eisen, PhD:

It's ready, I just have to publish it. Maybe months, two months, I don't know. Perfect. I'll let you know.

Joshua Wilson:

What we'll do is we'll go back and we'll put the link in the show notes so people could go to dig into it.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

Thank you, thank you. I'm super grateful for your time. I've really enjoyed the conversation. I love studying the psychology of…

Joshua Wilson:

you know, how people go about saying yes. We've spent a ton of time and research on the conversion cycle, how do people say yes, and why do they say yes? And on the flip side of that, why do they say no? So, I love this conversation. I'm super grateful for our time together. Where can people go to find more about you, and maybe connect with you? To learn more.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

I think the best way to go to my LinkedIn page. Also, they can go to my website, but website I have to change soon. It's leoneisen.com. The best… and also, they can find me in YouTube. Cool. I have my own podcast, where I'm talking with, Unicorn founders, and famous actors. They can find me there, just write, Venture Grove with Leon Eisen. It's my podcast. And by the end, I would like to mention another hat. I didn't mention before.

Joshua Wilson:

Please do.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

I'm also on the board of European Consciousness University. And I spend a lot of time on study consciousness.

Joshua Wilson:

Okay.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

So everything is connected, you see?

Joshua Wilson:

Okay, yeah. Tell me a little bit about that. Let's dig into that, and then, Let's dig into that. Let's give some… a little bit more time to talk about, you know, what you're doing there, and why is that important to you? Because you said, hold on, Josh, let's talk about this study of consciousness for a minute, because you said it's connected with investor relations. How is consciousness and the study of it connected with dollars and bills and… Venture capital.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

Usually peop… usually people unconscious. Average people unconscious. They don't understand what happens around, they don't know what they don't know, and they don't want to learn about it. And these… and entrepreneurs as well. And, for example, why consciousness is very important? By the way, we teach neuroplasticity there. That's very important, how people learn, how people create their chemistry in the right way. And… Some example, very simple, so get down to the Earth. Who hires? Who really hires an advisor or a consultant? If you go to first, time entrepreneur, In a… in precede stage. And… They behave like a teenager, independent of their age. They say, I know everything. I can do by myself everything. I can raise money, I don't need advisor at all, and recognize these people immediately after they start pitching, because their pitch is very low level, very, very bad, usually. But they don't understand, they don't… they're not conscious about it. Because they don't understand that's important, so this is… they don't aware about it. They don't want to be aware about it. That's a big problem. So, then they come back in half a year and say, oh, you know, could you help me? But we ran out of money. Runway Zero. So where… so why didn't you hire somebody half a year ago? You put million dollars to develop your product. Why didn't you put $10,000 to sell your product? To investor, at least. This is the first level. Second level, when people start to grow, they start to be much more conscious. So, for example, in round A, they not only have money, they understand the… importance of having advisory board, and pay advisors good money, because they could make them pivot, they could help a lot, and most important for startup is the time, and if you pick my brain. With 20 years of experience, instead of… Trying to get this experience for the half of a year and lose everything. it's a good time. And then. Next round, B, C, where people raise big money. And in this case, the spend… 100 times more on advisors and consulting. They go to Russell Brunson, Russell Branson paying $25,000, I don't know, to somebody else paying $100,000, but they value a lot of consulting and advisors. So, this is some kind of, Grow of consciousness for an entrepreneur.

Joshua Wilson:

Yeah, I love that. It's the, maturity. When you… the… even… I mean, you look at these companies raising Series B, D, whatever, right? You're… you're looking at it, and you're like, wow, they're… you know, they must be so smart. And, you know, they're the ones asking for the most help. They're getting, you know, consultants to come in, they're leveling up, they're trying to meet with, you know, Ms. Branson and all these other teams, they're meeting with Andreessen, they're meeting with these people who have built unicorns, and they're going, I've been humbled. I've gone through the ego stage, and now I want to learn, because every time I don't learn, it costs me a lot of money. And I'm sick and tired of having LPs yell at me for making dumb mistakes, so now I'm… I'd like to get on the front end of that, so… Fascinating study, Mr. Leon. Can't wait to dig into your book and do that. For fellow, founders, investors, people in the world of investor relations, as always, reach out to our guests, say thank you for having them, you know, share their time, their wisdom, their knowledge with you. And, you know, reach out to them, say thank you for that. Now, if you have some advice or wisdom that you'd like to share in the world of investor relations, head on over to theinvestorrelationspodcast.com, super simple, fill out a quick form, and maybe we'll get you on the show next. So then, we'll talk to you all on the next episode. Cheers, everybody.

Leon Eisen, PhD:

amazing, because, you know, we covered maybe 5% of what I was going to share.

Joshua Wilson:

Well, hold on, let me stop recording, and then let's talk a little bit.

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Joshua Wison

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