MAHPERD "Voices From The field"
In this podcast, you will hear from educators and professionals in the field sharing their insights and experiences in the HPE (Health Physical Education) and allied fields. I hope you find this podcast informative, and inspiring. Learn about best practices and tools that you can implement in your teaching practice. We want to know not only what you do, but also the action steps you took to get you where you are. The Status Quo is not in our vocabulary folks, my guests are leaders in the field who are taking action to make an impact in their respective fields. If you have any questions or would like to be a guest on the show email mahperdpodcast@gmail.com
"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got" Henry Ford
MAHPERD "Voices From The field"
Moving Lives, Changing Futures
Susan Fishback's journey from dancer to elementary PE teacher reveals a profound understanding of how early movement experiences shape our lifelong relationship with physical activity. Having taught students from a variety of demographics including those with diverse physical abilities, Susan brings a unique perspective to physical education that goes far beyond sports skills.
Her implementation of the Active Kids and Minds program (formerly BOKS) demonstrates how accessible, enjoyable movement opportunities can transform school communities. What began with 70 students quickly grew to over 100, showing the tremendous appetite for structured physical activity in schools. This free program, with training and curriculum now available online, represents a powerful tool for educators seeking to increase movement opportunities for their students.
The heart of Susan's teaching philosophy centers on inclusion and relationship-building. From her thoughtfully designed class opening and closing circles to her "star student" recognition system, every element of her program aims to build confidence and community. Her innovative pre-teaching peer modeling program created meaningful participation opportunities for students with different abilities while fostering empathy among classmates. These efforts ultimately led her previous school to become a Unified Elementary School through Special Olympics, creating student-led initiatives to increase inclusion throughout the school day.
Physical education in Susan's gymnasium transcends simple games - each activity intentionally develops multiple skills simultaneously. Even a straightforward game like Castle Ball incorporates throwing for power and accuracy, strategy development, and teamwork. This multifaceted approach challenges the common misconception that PE teachers "just roll a ball out" and highlights the expertise required to deliver quality physical education.
As Susan looks to the future, she advocates for more movement opportunities both within and beyond school walls. Whether through increased PE time, additional recess, or accessible community programs, her vision centers on helping every child discover the joy of movement in ways that will sustain them throughout life.
Resources:
https://www.specialolympics.org/what-we-do/youth-and-schools/unified-schools
Contact:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/susan-fishback-8b330243/
Thank you for joining us on this podcast where we talk with educators in the field to hear about their perspectives and experiences. My name is Jake Bersin, advocacy Chair for MAHPERD, and today I have the pleasure of speaking with Susan Fishback. Susan Fishback is an elementary physical education teacher with a passion for getting kids moving. Her dedication to physical activity led Susan to bring active kids and minds formerly BOKS to the school her children attended and ran training for members of the school and YMCA community. Working with a wide variety of students has created a strong passion to make PE and physical activity accessible for all. This has led to working closely with support staff and the Special Olympics. Welcome Susan.
Susan:Thank you, hello, and thanks for having me, jake.
Jake:Of course, it's so exciting to be in this space with you and thank you so much for saying yes to the podcast. Before we get started, what is making you smile these days?
Susan:Always the kids right, the fun they're having in class. It's been a little wild these days leading up to the full moon, but they're having fun, they're joking around. I'm at a new school this year, so really feeling the relationships that I've built throughout the year really coming into play and having fun with the kids.
Jake:That's great. Yes, I agree, the full moon does make a difference in how they interact and whatnot,. So, Susan, tell us more about who you are and how you started your education journey.
Susan:Great. So I came into education a little bit later, or at least formally in the school system. My background is actually dance. I grew up dancing. I have a bachelor of fine arts and performance and choreography.
Susan:When I had my kids I got back into dancing and started teaching some little kid dance classes and from there it went into adult dance classes and fitness classes and everything has just sort of continued down a path of fitness and movement, driving where I'm at and leading me to broadening who I'm teaching.
Susan:And as this continued along, I wound up coming into teaching elementary physical education and fell in love with it. Haven't considered, you know, leaving how important it is for the children? One thing about having taught such a wide range of people I've taught I always joke kids starting from three years old up to adults in their 80s, amputees, cancer patients, a little bit of everything. And one thing that I really learned as I was working in the adult community is how many people's first experiences of movement and exercise came from physical education and how important it is to start that path for kids at a young age, building their confidence in helping them love movement in whatever way they want to enjoy it, so that they will continue to find ways to be active throughout the rest of their lives.
Jake:Yeah, that's so key. Having the students find ways and also the SEL skills Sounds like you had a wide variety of different experiences. Is there one experience that stood out to you, or can you mention somebody who had an influence on you to get into this field? You mentioned you were a parent right Helping out with the PE teacher and then yes, so through teaching fitness in the adult community.
Susan:a mom reached out to me and said hey, my sister learned about this BOKS program. Would you come learn about it with me? And I said Sure. So we got our kids PE teacher on board, a couple other moms and we all trekked up to the old Reebok headquarters in Canton. We learned all about the program. I often joke, I drink the Kool-Aid. We came back, decided that we needed to do it. We were already running some Fit and Fridays with our kids' PE teacher and the group of us really pulled it together. We ran some practice sessions and we put it out there. We sent home paper flyers the Friday of Martin Luther King Day weekend and by that Tuesday morning we had 70 kids signed up for the program.
Jake:Well, I was just going to ask you how many students. So is that 70 kids per session or per day?
Susan:Well, the gym was too small for 70 kids, so we broke it into two groups. It was a K-3 school, so we did K-1 two days. So we did K-1 two days and we did 2-3 two days. By the time I finished at my kids' school, we were up over 100 kids, so 50 kids per session. Wow. And we then brought it the way that our district works the 4-5 school and the kids had to be there at 7 o'clock in the morning.
Susan:We had 50 kids for that. We ran it at the middle school at 7am. We had about 35 kids for that and I worked with the different elementary and middle school PE teachers all through that and eventually a position opened at what was or is the four or five building in the PE teacher column was like you got to come and do this with me. Like you, you, we got to do this. And I said okay, and unfortunately that position changed and I wound up taking a K to four position in a different district where I really get to build my own program, which wound up being a really great experience over the years. And now I'm back in the district that my kids went to school in. My youngest is graduating from high school, so it's been a whole Wow, it's really come full circle for you then.
Susan:Yeah, it's really come full circle.
Jake:Wow, that's awesome. So this program that you were talking about is it? It's free, right?
Susan:Yes, everything about it. So it did go through a name change. It used to be called BOKS but now it is now called active kids and minds. It's still run by kathleen tully and the curriculum is still created by heather chase, who were the original box founders. They um everything is free so they have free training. All the training is online now, um, so you can just put in an email address, create a password and you have access to the training. You have functional fitness, but they have basketball. They're getting ready to launch a pickleball curriculum. Wow.
Susan:They've really branched that out over the years.
Jake:Yeah, they really expanded. If you send me some more information, I'll make sure that I link it in the show notes for our listeners.
Susan:Of course.
Jake:So for our listeners, who may not know, what standards and skills do you teach in regards to physical education?
Susan:We, as you know, teach many locomotor and movement skills. This changes throughout the school year. Currently, we are wrapping up our basketball unit with the younger kids. This really is more about dribbling skills, passing skills and the introduction of shooting skills. Always we are working on social skills, personal skills and the ability to identify personal benefits of movement and choosing to engage in physical activity. So anytime we are teaching a class, we are looking at the social, emotional learning that's going on. We're looking at their ability to analyze moving their bodies and how to move it as they leave ee. So this changes, of course, as the grade levels change, when you teach a lot of different grades, but that those are your universals, and and then, of course, all of the locomotor manipulatives that we have throughout the school year.
Jake:Right, right Now, build that foundation. Now that's great, and it's good to hear that the SEL skills are also a top priority, because you know a lot of folks unlike the classroom teachers, as you know where the students aren't sitting behind a desk, they're out, moving, they're engaging, they're participating. So it's a little bit different management style than you would find with a classroom teacher. So there's definitely a lot to it. So I'm glad you mentioned the SEL skills too.
Susan:Yeah, I mean, and even if you do a tagging game, something that seems so simple to so many people how students react when they're tagged or when they are the tagger can set off a whole emotional response oh yeah, set off a whole chain reaction.
Susan:Before you even get into what people would think of as competitive games within the PE class, right that is. And then even where you sit, right, you know they're selecting seats on the floor. Not always depends on the class and the classroom management, but their social, emotional side is prevalent from the moment they come in until the moment they leave.
Jake:Let's just. Let's just talk about that for a minute. You mentioned the seats on the floor. How do you? I know every teacher is a little bit different, but how do you? Do you have squads? Do you have centers? How do you sit? What's your like protocol for when they come into the gymnasium?
Susan:I actually. My kids come in and they start laps around the gym right off the bat.
Susan:I actually me for this year. One of the presenters was talking about using real life language, about hitting the track, and I would like to think I've implemented that a little bit better. I have not, but I think this is a great way to introduce real life places that they can go with their families, and that was how it was introduced at the conference and it really stuck with me about using words in class that the students can then take with them when they're outside of class. When they come in, they do that. After that, we meet in a circle on the floor. I do not do squads.
Susan:One of the other teachers in my school does do squads. We sit in a circle, we take attendance, we discuss what we're going to be working on for the day, so we're working on for the day. So if we're working on now I'm trying to remember. I think, uh, bowling would be a nice example where, when I introduce that we're going to be working on bowling, then Okay, so what? What skills do you think you might need when you're bowling? And allowing the kids to come up with rolling the ball, stepping foot forward with the opposite foot, accuracy towards the target, really letting them develop what they think they're going to need, with some direction, of course.
Susan:We then go into our different activities, whatever they may be, for the day, and I finish in a circle as well, and we award a star student for the day. So far I've been running this for a few years. I've managed. I think there may be one exception, where everybody in the class gets a star student prior to anybody getting a second star student. We've found it to be a nice positive motivation. The classroom teachers have been very supportive. My school mascot is a starfish or a sea star.
Jake:Oh nice, that's the perfect name.
Susan:Yeah, I used to have a sneaker at my old school. The kids color it and they bring it back and we hang it up on the wall.
Susan:So the gymnasium wall, as the year goes on, becomes filled with this really spectacular rainbow of colored star students and you get to see a side of the students that we don't always get to see in the gym. The care that they take to color in these pictures and it is the same picture but they look so different across the wall has been a nice way to do it. But we do begin and I sit on the floor with the students. It was during a restorative practice, professional development, that they were talking about restorative circles and the nature of sitting in the circle with students and, like how, the importance of having a circle at the beginning of the day for classroom teachers and at the end of the day, and while we don't have that experience with the kids, I thought how can I replicate that circular communication and feeling at the beginning of class and at the end of class? That's sort of our beginning of the day and end of day. So that is what led to the circle and it's worked nicely.
Jake:That's really great. I mean I I appreciate the circle um that you do, because sometimes if the teacher just leaves or has the kids leave, just cold feet, like there's some issues in the hallway or some issues you know that get brought to the class. So you're, you have this routine of starting the class and then you teach the kids, students the skills and then they end the class with a similar routine. But they also get recognized for their what, their behavior, their effort, their skills, right, and that's great that they're recognized and that every student gets recognized at some point, um before they get recognized twice.
Jake:That's really great.
Susan:It's good to hear yeah, and we, for example, just had our enrichment nights, uh, last week, and the kids were excited to show their parents on the walls in the gym where they all knew where their star students were. Some kids wanted their picture taken by it. They were very excited to show their parents and kids who maybe keeping themselves in body control for the whole class is very challenging. Sometimes those are the kids who are the most excited to show their parents or their family members.
Jake:Right, because I'm sure they they might not get as much positive feedback in different places, but it, once they have it they want to, that's a good thing, right? So?
Susan:Right.
Jake:And what a great advocacy tool as well to have the parents come in and and see the space and meet you, but also get a chance to take a picture with their child and they can be praised and celebrated and that's awesome.
Susan:Yeah, and they, you know many of the students bring the stars home. So the parents are seeing that as a communication. You know, especially from the gym, we don't always have things that we're sending home showing the parents. So while it may not show the standards that we're doing, it starts a conversation with their child about oh you got PE star student, what did you do in class today? How you know?
Jake:right.
Susan:Right, all it helped make you get star student. You know, it helps open that communication instead of a child just coming home and saying fine. Good Sure. How was your day Okay? Great.
Jake:Awesome. So my next question is in two parts. One is how often do you see your students? And then, how do you ensure that physical education is an inclusive space for all the students?
Susan:I only see my students once a week, but I do see them for 60 minutes, which is an improvement from the district I was in before.
Susan:Inclusion holds a special place in my heart across all areas. I think a lot of times when we think about inclusion we think of physical disabilities and intellectual disabilities or differences in abilities, which, of course, but also students who are shy and quiet and maybe don't have the confidence to try in class. And I was talking with one of the specialists in our district about a student who has some vision impairments and we were discussing what was working, what wasn't working. And you know things as simple as using red and yellow pieces of equipment and the kids had done in the stations that involved an aerobic stuff. I was saying you know, I forgot I should have taped it. You know red and yellow make it easier.
Susan:And we were talking about how very often inclusionary practices are simply better teaching practices right so providing those visuals for students, no matter if they have intellectual or visual causes, that they would need that added visual. It helps all of the students. Providing differentiated materials at stations you know different size basketballs, different levels of hardness of a ball, allowing the students to explore within. That allows all of the students to have a better experience and to differentiate their own journey and you're providing a nice inclusionary environment for any students who are coming in.
Susan:The district I worked in previously did not have adapted PE and that put me in a position of working very closely with the physical therapist and the occupational therapists to come up with modifications. I created a pre-teaching peer modeling program where my students because they didn't have an adapted opportunity they would come in and learn what we were going to do with class. They would come in and learn what we were going to do with class and then, equally important, their adults learned what the modifications were. So, as we were running it in class, they knew where to have the child, which equipment we were using, what the plan was, and then they were building relationships with the peer models who were coming in and helping them learn how to play the games and how to do the different skills we were going to be doing and then those kids created a great relationship so we would be outside.
Susan:We were going out down a paved path with the student in a wheelchair and a few of the peers were in front of him and we out looked and they were brushing sticks and stones out of the way on the path as we were working our way towards the basketball court. This is a child who had limited access to outdoor equipment and these kids had the thought, after working with him just for a few months, that they could see it and be like that's going to be a problem for him and I can help him navigate that much easier. So it was an example of inclusionary practices within the gym then going out into the real life experience where they could see in a path that this would be a difficult way what?
Jake:What a great way to have students build empathy and perspective for and from other students and, just like you said, they were watching out and kind of helping their teammates, helping their classmates. That's really cool and this is all something you did. Was this on the side or was this like how much extra time did this take you? Was it a big undertaking or was it just a matter of meeting in?
Susan:the hallway information. It was uh, top secret information.
Jake:It was my prep oh, the good old prep time right so you did this during your preps, but I mean I did.
Susan:As I said, top secret information um enrollment did go down in that school where I did wind up with an extra prep time, so it originated during my prep but I was able in the next. I think it was two years of prep time and the year after I was able to able to get that into my schedule. Yeah, so it took some hard advocacy, but I was able to get the time because in the administrator's minds it wasn't necessary.
Susan:They just needed to be in the space for PE, but I felt that they needed to have a truly inclusion experience, and in order for that to happen, we needed to be providing more resources. And now I did leave that district and the teacher who came in behind me was provided that time during their schedule.
Jake:Okay, so you paved the way for this other teacher.
Susan:I tried I actually, they also just became a unified school for my urging. It was actually at the Mayford adapted conference a few years ago that we were introduced. I was introduced to it and that was actually my next question.
Jake:Well, what did tell me more about? Uh, what's a unified elementary school? What? What is? What does it entail? What is who's involved?
Susan:so a unified elementary school is actually very cool. So it's different from the upper levels where a lot of the focus is on the unified sports, unified PE classes, a unified elementary school, if done in essence, with fidelity. They have a committee which is one or two adults and then it's students.
Susan:So you have students who are typical learners and you have students who might be in different programs or on an IEP you know IEP students so that this committee is coming up with ways to find more inclusion during the school day. So at least in the building I was in before specials were inclusion right PE was inclusion arts inclusion. They may be in the classroom I was in before specials were inclusion right. Pe was inclusion arts inclusion. They may be in the classroom for a snack. They may not be in classroom for a snack. They may get some form of instruction in class, they may not.
Susan:But luncheon specials were really their primary inclusion time. This allows the students to come up with ways for there to be more inclusion during the day, so they're sort of able to create the ideas, tell the adults why and how it should be done and then in theory, the adults bring it in. So it's showing them empathy, advocacy, hopefully putting it into action. It also offers a unified PE program for the lower level. The lower elementary looks more like the young athletes program, but it um, it also opens up more professional development for both classroom teachers and the PE teachers. They also offer, uh, a unified celebration and that's not the right word, but they have. Instead of it being, you know, the play days that you see for a lot of Special Olympics, now there's a unified day where the kids it's a six-week program where they're learning all of the skills and then it culminates in a big celebration all of the skills, and then it culminates in a big celebration.
Jake:Special.
Susan:Olympics is really trying to get them more towards that. The way I had sort of envisioned it because, being an elementary school field day right For us anyways it's always in June I had thought doing the unified day would be a great way, as the students are learning about each other at the beginning of the school year so you could build those unified lessons in in that, like september, october timeline, have the celebration in october where the kids get to all come out and cheer for the classes and that way they're sort of learning the inclusion from the very beginning, because sometimes kids, especially younger students, struggle with understanding how to interact Right. So how? Do they?
Susan:interact with each other, but then I can't play with them. They're in a wheelchair and we're doing this. Well, you can play with them. Here's how. And showing them how to open those conversations. I thought was a really great way of doing it.
Jake:So I'm excited that they did adapt it.
Susan:It took, it was a struggle, but they did bring it in this year.
Jake:So that sounds really cool. If you have any resources about that, if you can, just let me know, it'll put them in the show notes as well for our listeners.
Susan:Yeah, that would be great and there's they're very active with it in Massachusetts, so I know the Northeast. They're working hard on getting more and more schools to become unified.
Jake:That's great, and is this something that maybe Mayford could take on at some point, if they haven't in the past? Have some PD professional learning about this. This sounds awesome.
Susan:Yeah, it's a very cool program. So we're actually working with active kids of mine too. I've been on a few of those calls.
Jake:Oh are they yeah.
Susan:They're all working. Hopefully all working together soon.
Jake:Wow, yeah, that's great. What advice would you give to someone new entering the field?
Susan:Obviously to have fun right. That is one of the most important things for all of us and then really building relationships and continuing to learn. I think it's easy for all of us to get bogged down into our silos and to not always be expanding who we know. I worked in a district for several years the last eight years where I was the only PE teacher in the building, so our common planning time was PE, art, music, and then library and technology, and we would get together and it was interesting troubleshooting different ideas of classroom management or how to approach a lesson from people who don't teach what you teach. Right.
Susan:You know, I think it's easy sometimes to say you don't teach what I teach you don't know, and they may not know exactly that. But hearing different perspectives can be really helpful in how you approach your own lessons. I think attending conferences I'm a huge proponent. I go to mayford but you know you'll hear sometimes teachers who've been a lot in there. You know they're tired and do they have to go and you should go. You can always take something away from any conference anytime you're talking to other professionals, right? I think it's important to build those relationships and to always have somebody to pick their brain. One of the things changing districts this year. I'm no longer the only teacher in the building and now we get to, you know, troubleshoot. Did this work for you? Did you like that? What do you think about this? We're both at home looking things up on the internet. We're looking, you know, for new ideas to freshen up lessons. And how does that work? How can we complement each other and help each other?
Jake:Right, one of the best PDs is having a thought partner or somebody you can bounce ideas off of. It sounds like that's what you have, so yeah, that's great.
Jake:And I applaud you too for being a member of your state association. You know we have a lot of great PE teachers out there, but not a lot of people are members, so you know you never know who you're going to run into, what you're going to learn, what new strategies or best practices can be picked up at these conferences. So it's always a great idea just to become a member, so I applaud you being one.
Susan:Thank you.
Jake:So we talked a little bit before about advocacy and you know we talked about the active kids, the box.
Susan:But what are some other ways, in addition to what you're already doing, that you advocate for your students and or the profession?
Susan:Being in a new district and, as we mentioned earlier, I'm back home so my commute is significantly shorter has opened up some time to be a little bit more involved in some district committees policies. I've joined the district wellness committee, which I think we all know in the field can vary greatly depending on the year, depending on who is in charge, what their vision is, and I just happened to come in as they were getting ready to set some new goals and one goal the teacher who I work with in my building we're both on it. We are helping with a district-wide wellness committee newsletter. So our newsletter focuses on the school nurses provide one little tidbit. We provide some lunch ideas.
Susan:We provide different ways to be active, so my kindergarteners came up with different ways to be active for the first newsletter that went out in January. We also provide in that newsletter different happenings at every school in the district that are provided by the PE and health departments along with the nurses, just sort of letting families know what we're doing. In each building there's pictures of what's happening in PE classes, different events that we're having and we just had our inaugural newsletter go out in January and it had over 6,000 opens which of a district of about 5,000 families was pretty impressive.
Susan:We're excited.
Jake:Very impressive.
Susan:We're going to be looking to see how much interaction there was within that, because Very impressive across the district. We're sending out in our principals weekly newsletter. We add in different bits and pieces about what we're doing in PE and health. We just recently had our enrichment night which all of the specialists we had K-1 on one evening and grades two, three on the next evening. They were very well attended. We had a nice portion of the school there with families, siblings, and then again those pictures and information were shared by the principal in the weekly newsletter to go home to. I think we can always increase how we're seen. I mean we're at the elementary level. Field day will be coming. Field day is always a nice way to show, um, who we are. While it may not show exactly what we do, I think it puts a face to a name for families. When they're there with the kids they can see who we are. They're gonna, you know if I've done my job well.
Susan:I have a chance to chat.
Jake:I mean field day is another podcast in itself because of the amount of work that's put into it. I remember doing field days. You know 30 parent volunteers and you know just the whole day. I'm sure you're exhausted at the end of the day, but it's well worth it with the smile.
Susan:It is, and I think that for PE teachers I'm finding it can be a little controversial for sure. Some love it, some hate it. I was not a huge field day person and my old school was a full day field day for five grades, all inclusion, all inclusion, Every student. It was accessible to all of my students and the very first one I had oh my gosh, so hard. And then at the end of the day, that sense of satisfaction and all the smiles throughout the whole day really makes a huge difference.
Susan:So then I drank the Kool-Aid again and now. I love field day and I like to top it every year and have an even better one.
Jake:So it's a lot of extra work for sure. But I can't wait to hear when you, when the field day is over, I want to touch base with you and hear how it went.
Susan:Well, this year I'm crazy because my son will graduate from high school two days later.
Jake:So congratulations Busy wow.
Susan:Congratulations Busy busy time It'll be a busy week.
Jake:So, um, just moving on to the next question, Susan, what is the misconception people may have about physical education?
Susan:um, in your eyes and your experience, Um, I would say this has been true, and multiple buildings and across a different um array of people that we roll a ball out, the kids just play games the whole time, that we are not real teachers, that we just get to play all day and, um, that there isn't as much to it. I think, um, the angry gym teacher has a great bit about how, you know, we talk about it and then we get to go play castle ball. But, um, we really are providing life skills and it's so important for all of our students and I think that it can be hard to demonstrate our level of experience, our expertise in what we do, the work that goes into planning lessons, the work that goes into executing lessons, managing equipment, managing behaviors. Um, um, I have found in the past, you know, I there was a TA at my old school who was actually talking about a music class and sort of, oh, I decided not to do what he left because it didn't.
Susan:You know, this was what it was and this was what it was, and you just leave this and I go. Well, when I leave Castle Ball, for example, my kids are thrown with power. They're throwing for accuracy, they're building strategy, they are working as a team, you know you start listing all of the things that are happening within a game right that maybe to the outside doesn't look that big a deal.
Susan:You know, explaining what they're learning in a tagging game. And she was so funny. She was like I never thought about that and I I was like, yeah, that's, we have a lot that we teach. Welcome to your world.
Jake:There's definitely more than meets the eye. I mean it's, it's, it's, like you said, the strategy, the, the skill. You know how to deal with maybe not hitting the, the target over. You know the feedback given to the students, and if the students are giving each other feedback, that's a whole nother teaching strategy.
Susan:So there's definitely definitely a lot to it there's a yeah and your eyes are going everywhere. Right, you know you're paying attention to everything you're. You know the student who's going to be super competitive, who's about to explode over in the corner. You gotta keep an eye and make sure they're yeah right being a good teammate and that they're learning how to handle that I I forget who quoted this, so I apologize, but somebody I know.
Jake:This quote is that somebody said the physical education taught poorly is the easiest job, but physical education taught well is one of the hardest jobs in the world with with the type of um decisions that have to be made and the amount of um um teamwork and skill development. So so, right on, good judge, good job being a great PE teacher.
Jake:So, moving on, what, uh, what are your thoughts about AI in regards to PE? I know artificial intelligence is kind of, I feel, taking over in many aspects, in many ways, but what are your thoughts about this?
Susan:It is interesting and I say this it is. You know, I will admit I have not explored it much. I am actually going for my master's of education right now and there's a couple of things in my senior in high school. It's like mom just put it in chat GPT, and then when you do you know if you teacher but utilized AI for outlining grant proposals and outlining some lessons and not for the full effect of it.
Susan:They were a technology teacher, and their argument was like they needed to know what their students were going to be using Right. And so I do think that when you're looking at grant proposals, you don't want to have it write the grant proposal Right, but to have it help you do that grant proposal.
Jake:Right Kind of like as a guide.
Susan:As a guide.
Jake:Right.
Susan:AI now develop a menu and grocery list for this week with seven grams of protein and that you know and it does.
Jake:Wow, it, it, it, it.
Susan:It spits out the information for you, whatever, whatever you want, whatever you need, and it's fascinating because it may not be what you want, it may not be what you're looking for. I don't believe that it yet takes away from the personal touch. But if you have students who are learning you know I'm thinking of, like older students, not my K to three but if you have students who are learning to use it as a tool to help them find exercises or as a tool to help them find different snack ideas that they know then how to fact check, they know how to find a person who can help them do the exercises properly, I don't think it works in a vacuum right it is an interesting piece of it.
Susan:But, that being said, from a pe perspective, especially with the younger kids, you still need the human to teach them the skills so the ai might be able to help you with a couple of ideas on a grant proposal or a lesson plan, but I think, um, we still need to be the ones physically providing the assistance.
Jake:I agree, AI can't teach. You know build relationships, you know human relationships. But I do, like you, hit the nail on the head. I think when you said tool, it should be a tool to help, you know, make things easier, but it's definitely not an end-all, be--all.
Susan:So thank you for sharing your thoughts on that it sort of goes back to what you were saying about. You know it's easy. Oh, now I'm gonna butcher your quote.
Speaker 3:But oh yeah, how it can be the easiest job in the world.
Susan:If you're not good, you know and that I think with ai is the same, like if you use ai only then yeah, yeah, that's super easy and you know, but it's not going to give you what you're looking for. So if you use it as a tool. I think that it can be helpful.
Jake:Absolutely. I agree a hundred percent. So, susan, we're nearing the end of the episode, but I had a couple more questions. What do you hope to see in the future? What goals do you have? These can either be personal goals or professional goals.
Susan:They sort of tie together. I would love to see more physical activity for kids, right, I mean even talking about active kids. And when my kids, when I started it at my kid's school 12 years ago, we had over 100 kids signed up, easy peasy. Parents were excited they were dropping them off. We now have about 40 to 50 kids get signed up and you know there's a lot of different reasons for that, I'm sure. But having done physical activity trackers with third graders who write rest day after their day of physical activity, the day before being grocery shopping, and that finding ways for them to move, building their confidence, you know I would love to see PE be mandated more often. But I think we both know when you're looking at mandates around PE, when you're looking at mandates around health, nobody really follows up on them. They're pretty loosey-goosey.
Jake:Right right. You need to be held accountable. I mean, saying something's in a policy is one thing, but then following through and holding people accountable to make sure whatever it is gets done is a whole nother to make sure whatever it is gets done is a whole nother um.
Susan:I am pretty confident that massachusetts requires pe weekly and there's recommendations both state and nationally and internationally. There's recommendations for minutes, but the minutes are not mandated right and we all know the issue at school. The school level is preps right. We cover prep. How do you create more PE in that model? I personally think taking PE out of the prep model and putting PE as a standalone in the day, it would be the only way that you can effectively bring PE in, let's say, daily. I know that's a pipe dream, but let's just pretend.
Jake:It's good to have a dream. You never know.
Susan:Yeah, let's just live the dream for a minute, understanding that that is unlikely to happen. And I think that, when you take away being the prep coverage, we all fear job security, increasing recess, you know, I mean, I would love to see these kids get more recess time and providing opportunities outside of school.
Susan:School can't fix everything right. We can do the best that we can at the time that we have them. But what opportunities are there outside of school that are not expensive? Youth sports that for the kids who are not as competitive that they can participate in so that they're outside of school. That are not expensive. Youth sports that for the kids who are not as competitive that they can participate in so that they're finding ways to move? You know, it gets dark early here by the time the kids get out of school. During the winter it's dark out.
Jake:What can?
Susan:we do to facilitate movement when it's too dark for them to be outside safely. That's changing now, but we, you know, for a solid month we get out of school at four o'clock and it is pretty much dark by the time the kids are off the bus and that's our elementary students. What are different ways that we can provide that in a safe environment that they want to be at Right and that I think for me, those are my goals is to increase their activity. Right now, my primary focus is on the physical activity outside of school, because you can only can control what you can control Right, right, and I do what I can within the school environment and then trying to find ways for more physical activity outside of school. The school environment and then trying to find ways for more physical activity outside of school.
Susan:Active Kids and Minds has been a big passion project. I also have been volunteering. My new school does Special Olympics basketball after school. We just wrapped up our season and that's more of a unified model. We'll be doing Special Olympics track and field in the spring and um, you know the more ways the kids can move definitely giving them, you know, many opportunities in many different ways, and I like how you said.
Jake:You know there are students who don't care about the team or traditional sports, so we need to find variety and, um, something that they can enjoy and, uh, find a love of. So that's so key. So thank you for mentioning that. So how can our listeners connect with you?
Susan:um I, it's funny. I used to have many social media channels back in my fitness instructor days and now I am primarily on linkedin as susan fishbackback, with lots of fun physical activity connections, and then anytime via email, which is just susanefishback at gmailcom. Okay.
Jake:So I'll put LinkedIn in the show notes, if that's fine with you.
Susan:Of course, awesome.
Jake:Well, thank you so much, Susan, for sharing your experience and expertise with us. It was a pleasure to talk to you. I definitely learned a lot. You opened up my mind. I don't know how much sleep you get, but you're a busy person.
Susan:I know, we joke about it often.
Jake:So, listeners, if you have any questions, you can always email us at mayfordpodcast at gmailcom. We'll have this episode uploaded soon. Also, we are asking our listeners to leave a review if this podcast has been helpful in supporting you in any way, as it does help other folks find it. Thank you all for listening. Have a great week and we will be back soon. Thank you.
