MAHPERD "Voices From The field"
In this podcast, you will hear from educators and professionals in the field sharing their insights and experiences in the HPE (Health Physical Education) and allied fields. I hope you find this podcast informative, and inspiring. Learn about best practices and tools that you can implement in your teaching practice. We want to know not only what you do, but also the action steps you took to get you where you are. The Status Quo is not in our vocabulary folks, my guests are leaders in the field who are taking action to make an impact in their respective fields. If you have any questions or would like to be a guest on the show email mahperdpodcast@gmail.com
"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got" Henry Ford
MAHPERD "Voices From The field"
Outdoor Education: Transforming Lives Through Adventure
What if the key to transformative education isn't found in textbooks or standardized curriculum, but in the quality of relationships between teachers and students? Springfield College professors Angela Veach and Ted France challenge conventional wisdom about what constitutes meaningful learning as they share their expertise on adventure education.
Drawing from decades of combined experience, these educators reveal how Springfield College's unique 57-acre outdoor learning center serves as a laboratory for experiential education. Students don't just learn theory—they immediately apply concepts by facilitating real groups in authentic settings. This hands-on approach creates deeper learning connections that traditional classroom instruction simply cannot match.
Perhaps most surprising is their redefinition of "adventure" itself. As Professor France explains, adventure isn't limited to high-risk activities like rock climbing or whitewater rafting; rather, it's "any activity where the outcome is uncertain." This perspective makes adventure accessible to everyone, regardless of physical ability or comfort with traditional outdoor pursuits. The program's foundational principle of "challenge by choice" ensures participants engage at their comfort level while still being valued members of the group.
The professors outline a three-step process that creates transformative educational experiences: first building empathy, then helping students set high expectations, and finally becoming advocates who open doors to new opportunities. This relationship-centered approach is essential in the field of education. As Professor France notes, "It's the high-quality relationship that's developed between a significant adult role model and youth that matter."
Contact Info:
Hello and welcome to Voices from the Field, a MAHPERD podcast where we talk with educators in the field to hear about their perspectives and experiences. My name is Jake Bersin, advocacy Chair for MAHPERD, and today I have the pleasure of speaking with Springfield College University Professor Angela Veach and Professor Ted France. Here's a little background about our guests. Angela Veach is currently the Associate Director of Springfield College's East Campus Outdoor Learning Center, the Program Director for the Master's in Adventure Education Program and an adjunct faculty member at the institution. Ted France has been a professor of physical education at Springfield College for over 30 years. He has taught classes in pedagogy, adventure education, motor learning and qualitative research. He has published articles in book chapters presented nationally and consulted with physical education program and youth developmental organizations on the integration of adventure education in schools and youth development programs as well. Welcome, professor Angela Veach and Ted France. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Before we get started, I usually like to ask our guest this question what's making you smile these days?
Speaker 3:This podcast. This is all new to me, being on a podcast and trying new things and meeting students through all these new ways. I'm teaching online classes for the first time in my career and I'm learning tons, but yeah, it's just all these new experiences I'm getting in the last year or two with this new program we started.
Speaker 1:That's great, Welcome. How about? How about Veach?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you know, when spring hits, you know it's, it always brings a lot of joy to see kind of the the blossoming of new things, seeing the students kind of get out and about utilizing our facility, which we have, you know, 57 acres as an outdoor laboratory for our students, and kind of seeing that come back to life. There's been, you know it's. It kind of is reminiscent of hibernation. You know it's not utilized as much because of the colder weather. As soon as it starts to warm up we start to see some of those folks resurface and kind of benefit from this, from the space, that and kind of what it has to offer.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. We've definitely had a long winter this this past season, so it's good to see spring is finally here.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So let's get started, let's dive in. Tell me more about, tell our listeners how you got started on your education journey, and either one of you can go first.
Speaker 2:How you got started on your education journey and either one of you can go first Beach you want to go, you can go, tim.
Speaker 3:All right. So I I started my journey as a physical education student at Springfield college back in the mid to late eighties. How you know, I guess what really got me started was, like a lot of us, was my involvement in sport and a lot of good people around me who pointed me in a direction and said, hey, you'd be a good teacher, give it a go. And then, when I got to Springfield, I guess the journey as a physical educator collided with opportunities that were provided to me at the outdoor center that Veach is at now. I came from a smaller, rural town and adventure education the outdoors played a big role in shaping me as a person, and so it was a great opportunity where, at Springfield, I could try lots of new things. And then, once I got there, it was just the experiences that I got from a lot of good mentors who pointed, you know, kept pointing me in the right direction, giving me chances to expand my horizons and be involved with a lot of cool opportunities.
Speaker 1:That's great. Were these mentors, teachers or other folk other, your friends or who were they?
Speaker 3:Coaches and mostly coaches, but then eventually teachers at Springfield Dr Diane Potter, uh, gretchen Brockmeyer you know a lot of. They're all a lot of these folks are retired now but, um, you know they. There were people who challenged me to to, you know, achieve goals and to set new goals for myself and see myself in a different perspective as an educator. You know, it was just a lot of really good opportunities.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic. Sounds like they really were encouraging, so that's great.
Speaker 2:How about Veach? Well, I did my undergraduate work at Indiana University and I then, after that, left and was working in the mental health field. And how it started is, I guess you could say, by giving a dear friend a haircut. And I had no, that was my very first haircut. I was cutting his hair and I was kind of joking around.
Speaker 2:I had started back in a graduate program and I just he was telling me about his line of work. He was working for Indiana University's Bradford Woods, which is their big outdoor center, and I was like, oh, they got a job for me. And lo and behold, he was like actually, yes, they do. So I kind of stopped my graduate work at that time and moved to that facility and I spent two years there working at their outdoor center, leading some of their therapeutic groups. And then I moved on and found myself in Springfield, massachusetts, and I did my graduate work here and I worked at the outdoor center during my graduate work time and it I guess the cards you could say, aligned that the at that time the former director had been offered a job that he decided to take and I graduated on a Saturday and I got offered the interim assistant director position on that Monday.
Speaker 1:And, and I haven't left- so is it kind of safe to say you dove in there or it was just the right opportunity, right? It looks like I mean you were right, you was the perfect fit, you were right there, you had the, so that's awesome. Can you, can you tell us our listeners a little bit more about the therapeutic program? What, what is that?
Speaker 2:just for, so people can understand uh, the therapeutic program at indiana university that yeah, you mentioned, yeah, you mentioned, yeah so we were uh, I oversaw any groups that with a therapeutic background or seeking kind of therapeutic services.
Speaker 2:So I did a lot. I was the considered the therapeutic specialist for it, but I was utilizing the outdoors as a treatment modality to work with them. And so, by when I came to Springfield and was shown this facility, it, you know, despite being quite far from Indiana, it, this space, you know, gave me a sense of home and and kind of what Bradford Woods provided me at that time awesome, that's fantastic.
Speaker 1:Um, so what's as a professor? Is there something that's the most rewarding part? Can you put your finger on one, or is there? Are there different elements that are rewarding? Either one of you can go answer this or both. Who wants to take this one?
Speaker 3:For me, I mean, I think the rewarding parts are just one, the small victories. So you're working with students in class and they might be planning a lesson or planning a day out at the challenge course, and they're just. You know, what do we do and how do we get the students involved? And are they going to like me? And it's just like getting them past all of the hesitations they have and just reorienting them like let's go play, let's go have fun. And then we layer in all the educational goals that are part of the program design and that we're working for. But so those little victories, but then you know, the big ones are thinking about some of the grads, the graduates that have left the program. They've started their own businesses, whether it be an adventure education.
Speaker 3:One student comes to mind Dan Jaskot runs his own facilitation company now. One student comes to mind Dan Jaskot runs his own facilitation company now. And then you've got other great teachers. Christine Brayfield comes to mind, out in Arlington. I mean, she's an alum of the program and just watching her take on the challenges of I'm going to do a snowshoeing, a snowshoeing unit with my elementary school students and it's just a great, you know, with my elementary school students and it's just a great. You know those. To me, those are the moments where I see victories every day.
Speaker 1:That's awesome and it you know. You mentioned the word fun and and I totally agree like having the students, no matter what age, if they, when they think the activity or know the activity is fun, it really engages them and, like you mentioned, the other stuff can come later, but they have to know that they're in a safe environment and that it's fun. You're teaching them different skills and whatnot, so that's that's that really resonates with me.
Speaker 3:What's the old adage? There's an old adage I think it was Teddy Roosevelt said they don't care what you know until they know you care.
Speaker 1:Exactly Right. Yes, yes, so you.
Speaker 3:I mean, you gotta you know, I think, starting with that belief system, that you know this unwavering belief in the potential of your students, and then getting to know what really makes them tick, and then we can get to the meat of the meal. I think You've got to start with them.
Speaker 1:Right, no, that's great advice, great advice. Thank you for sharing. How about Veach? What's the most rewarding aspect about being a professor for you?
Speaker 2:I think seeing them accomplish things that they initially came in doubting themselves, with, you know, thinking that something appeared to be impossible, became extremely possible. What appeared to be impossible became extremely possible. You know a lot of our classes we teach, you know, through an experiential lens, and so we have an opportunity to, to you know, take what we're learning in a classroom and really apply it, you know, to groups that come and visit us, and so seeing how they make those connections between the content within a classroom and a real life experience working with a group and then understanding how that theory or concept is applicable in their future, is probably one of the most rewarding. Applicable in their future is probably one of the most rewarding. You know, seeing them, you know, in final reflections, talk about their future and how this content can benefit them, is really probably, from from my perspective, quite rewarding.
Speaker 1:So they're, they're learning this content and then they're playing it right after, so it sticks with them. Would you, can you provide a listeners with either a shorter or long example of of what that would look, might look like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so if you know a facilitation class right, so you know you're learning about some of the hard skills that are required with it, as well as the importance of you know sequencing or scaffolding, you know the day to kind of build upon success, and so we host a variety of external groups out at our facility and they can come out and we have our students work with some of our other student facilitators who have gone through it.
Speaker 2:So it's kind of actually a really neat I don't know mentorship that's taken place and so they work with maybe an individual that is already on our staff and then they deliver kind of the activity or the activities for the day, and so it's not just learning without any participants. They're, you know, they're again, like I said, they understand how to integrate some of these soft skills with a group, which are, you know, the dynamics alone, create opportunities that you can't teach in the classroom, right Like you've got to be present in, you know, like actively engaged to kind of see some of these things come to life so they're able to create those connections.
Speaker 1:So listening, taking turns, reflecting, offering feedback, those type of things.
Speaker 2:All of those things.
Speaker 1:Perfect, that's really great. So, moving on to our next question, it's kind of related how do you include, uh ensure that adventure ed is inclusive and safe for everybody? I know you kind of mentioned that, you know them taking turns and listening, but what, what can be? How do you ensure that it's everyone's included?
Speaker 3:that makes sense, yeah yeah, angela, you want to go.
Speaker 2:That make sense. Yeah, yeah, angela, you want to go? Yeah, I mean I think that that you know experiential education, insight of the importance of offering choice, the importance of you know empowering their, you know the participants to use their voice. You know it's founded on challenge by choice.
Speaker 1:And you can ask about that yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so not, you know, forcing anyone to ever, you know, do something that they're not comfortable with, but kind of finding a role within the group that they think kind of meets them where they're at or where they feel most comfortable with. So I think that the foundation of it is lends itself far more easily than other, I guess, theoretical frameworks and so forth.
Speaker 1:Well, when you mentioned this, it kind of reminded me of UDL, universal Design for Learning, where there's options for them to not only show what they know but who they work, with some choice on maybe the equipment they use, where they're going to stand, all those type of things. So that's really great. Anything to add, ted?
Speaker 3:I would only take away from whatever she said.
Speaker 1:That's great. So what are some specific? I know this might sound competitive, but can you give an example of a specific way that students have uh participated? Like maybe take us through? You mentioned earlier the? You have people coming on to your campus that are that are kind of new to this. How do you, how does that whole process work, and are they working with partners or trios?
Speaker 3:uh, just take us through an example of that so I'll let Veach talk more about the external groups that come on. You know I can talk about, you know I for me, working with our undergraduates is a similar process as working with an external group. So in the end of the end of the school year, this May, we've been teaching a camping class for about 90 plus years and I live out in the woods in a tent for eight days with about 50 or 60 first year students and my staff is made up of sophomores, juniors and seniors. And so when you ask about like, how do they work? Well, the students that are enrolled in the class, they'll live in a group of seven or eight people and they have to define roles, they have to deal with the weather, whatever is thrown at us. They take class during the day. The whole premise behind it is that they're gaining skills in the outdoor, physical skills, but they're also learning to become more aware of how they're influencing other people, how they're building relationships.
Speaker 3:And then the students who are actually staff members living in the group. They've come through some of the methods, classes, and so they're learning to teach under me, working with me in teaching the classes I teach, or working with Michelle Moosbrugger out on the challenge course. So there's this mentoring process where we're always trying to help somebody become more autonomous in the delivery of their own teaching. We don't want them all to look like Angelo at the end of the four years. We want them to become their own best teacher as well. So I think one. They're working in a lot of groups, some of the younger groups that I dealt with, with, the elementary level. Yeah, it's going to be more pairs, maybe groups of three, but you know the high school groups tend to be more eight to 12 larger groups, things like that.
Speaker 2:Angela, what would concur with everything that you've said. I think that part of you know that engagement is. You know, again, springfield College is rather unique in that space because we have 57 acres of forestry, that is an outdoor laboratory and has a longstanding history of having this space be an opportunity for students to engage in, to apply that content from the classroom, like we said. So, whether that's, you know, in Ted's example of, you know, an actual class that you know former students now become the teachers, whether that's you know folks taking the challenge course class and working on the challenge course, whether that's some other undergraduate classes helping support some spring break programming for youth in the area, you know, like there's a lot of opportunity in a very safe, like we try to make sure that they are supportive, in a safe space, to take that risk that just enhances their overall knowledge of how to be a better educator, how to connect more, how to you know navigate, being adaptable and in an, you know, in a outdoor setting.
Speaker 3:Something that Veach just said is, when I think about the program and a lot of the experiences, an individual will take on individual responsibilities, as a teacher would or a coach would, but their work is always supported by a group, whether it be a group of peers, the faculty members that are guiding them and mentoring them. So I don't think I'd love for you to ask this question to our students, because I'd love to see how they perceive, like, how do they learn? Do they learn in groups or do they learn alone? Because they take on a lot of individual challenges when they're standing up there alone teaching their class. But I think they would describe the process of learning as a group process Interesting, you know, because they're supported in so many ways.
Speaker 1:Interesting. We can make that happen, ted. We can ask your students that question. But that is interesting what you said about how they are supported in different ways. Let's shift gears a little bit. Thank you both for that answer. It really painted a nice picture, I think, for me and for our listeners. What type of research is conducted in your field? I understand you've written books, articles. What type of you know is this qualitative, quantitative research, you know? Enlighten me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the majority, I think the majority of the research in adventure, education and whether it's in physical education, youth development, through sport, in recreation, you'll find quantitative and qualitative publications, things like that. My career has been really different. You know I've been blessed to be at Springfield for quite a while. Career has been really different. You know I've been blessed to be at Springfield for quite a while and you know there was an author, a researcher, named Ernie Boyer who wrote a book called Scholarship Reconsidered and he made the academy step back and say who are we really doing research for? You know why are you doing this research? And for me, you know, if I want to have impact and if I want to serve my community, I should.
Speaker 3:You know how do I take what I know and not only study it but study it in very applied ways. So for me, lots of times my research is founded on all right. How do I help other organizations get grants and then build programs together where I'm not an expert consultant but I'm a process consultant, that I'm sort of basing my research and my interests on what are the real needs of people and organizations? How do I help them shift what they're doing or support what the good work they're doing by helping them get grant funding or maybe doing evaluation and assessment with them. That you know I'm I'm sort of. My research tends to be very applied, whether it's working with a program like the First Tee or a YMCA or a public school on curriculum, it's just to me. That's where I've I find I can have the greatest impact.
Speaker 1:You mentioned First Tee. Is that the golf? Yeah, that the golf? Yeah, we, we. Uh, in one of my prior districts we had first t come and they, they gave us some equipment. It's great. So so you're, you're one of the people that help them develop that or work with them I helped write that curriculum.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome yeah, we love that curriculum, so that's interesting. You mentioned about, you know, talking about the process and really working with other folks and other people, um, so that's really interesting. How about Veach anything to add? Uh thoughts on all right? No, no problem, all right, that sounds great. Um, so what advice would you give to someone who's interested in entering the field of adventure ed? What do you tell your students, or what are they? What's something that? What are your thoughts about that? Any words of wisdom?
Speaker 3:My first, you know, I think the hardest. The word adventure can be very, it connotes this big, you know, high risk adventure, right, that rock climbing sky rafting whitewater rafting, right.
Speaker 3:But I told this story to a student or to someone a few weeks ago about my first job working with the Girl Scouts and how I had a bunch of daisies and I was doing some games and activities with them. And the daisies are the little ones, they're younger than brownies. And I asked him. I said we're going on an adventure. Who can tell me what an adventure is? And they were all yelling, skydiving, whitewater rafting, you know all this stuff. That was just like high risk outdoor adventure. And this one little girl over in the side cell yelled reading a book and I was like oh my gosh, that's awesome.
Speaker 3:You know, I think it's helping people identify that an adventure. Carl Ronke describes it as any activity where the outcome is uncertain. So you know, imagine if we approached our day every day as an adventure. Right, because you don't know where it's going to go. You could have a schedule, but you don't know where you're going to land at the end of the day, and so every day really is an adventure. The side note is when I went back to teach in the fall after working with the Daisies, I asked my first year students what an adventure was and they all gave me the same answers as the daisies did at the girl scout camp and I was just taken back like well, what have we done to make seven-year-olds, six-year-olds, think adventure is all this high risk activity you know, play, playing. In in and of itself it should be an adventure, that's interesting.
Speaker 1:I I wonder how much you know the TV and social media has come into play along those lines to make them think that. But that's interesting, so let me. Let me get this quote correct. So adventure is any activity where the outcome is uncertain, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And I think it was Carl Ronke that told me that one time and Carl worked, worked for Project adventure for quite a while and then up at high five adventure in brattleboro, vermont just a really good mentor and friend and he was the one that really I think one of the early people that shaped my thoughts about using adventure not just in physical education but in all my teaching that's great um vich.
Speaker 1:Anything to add? Or?
Speaker 2:I think the what was the question about giving advice to? Yeah, what would you tell a newcomer, somebody new to the field, um, possibly your students, or somebody thinking about going down this, this adventure track I think try to diversify the network right attend, attend conferences, attend um different seminars, anything, anything where you're not just restricted into, like one specific, you know, educational setting. You know, I think conferences are really important because you're bringing in a lot of. You're bringing people from different areas, different institutions, different fields that can show how transferable some of this content is.
Speaker 2:So I think, if anything, you know, we try to encourage our folks to attend those, you know, just to just to start to network, to see what else is out there. You know, of course we want to keep some of them near and dear to us but you know, when it comes time for practicum or internships and things like that, it would be easy for them to just kind of stick around here. And we always say, you know, one of the things that I always am telling them like easy works but be better and being better is sometimes stretching that your own comfort zone and checking out a different organization because they could be doing things that's different from other people that you find align more with, kind of, your own passions and envision of your future, and there's nothing wrong with that. But if you don't take those risks, how are you going to gain that insight, to be able to kind of identify those pros and cons?
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well. I imagine it builds the students' perspectives too. When they're going to these conferences and listening to who's ever given the talk or the speech or presenting, you know they're getting a lot of different information and it's again opening up their minds and broadening their perspectives. You mentioned internships and practicums. Do you want to talk a little bit about where your students have gone in the past or some of the things that your institution offers as far as practicums or internships?
Speaker 3:So I mean it depends on their major. So our physical education students obviously all do student teaching. Majority of them are in Massachusetts, in the Northeast. So we place students all over. We have another set of students that are in our movement and sports studies major, which tends to be more coaching and sport leadership. So they're looking for careers in collegiate coaching athletics offices. Careers in collegiate coaching athletics offices, a little different than sport management because it's geared towards academic settings. They want to go into intercollegiate, interscholastic athletics.
Speaker 3:And we place students. I mean I've got in the last year the University of Albany football team. I've had students at the women's lacrosse team at AIC, a lot of the high schools in our area. Cole's just finishing up with Wilbraham Hamden School District doing an athletic administration. I don't know, I think he's not coaching right now, he's just doing working with the athletic director, you know. And then we place others that are at camps. We have one student, aiden, who is finishing up. He's been to one camp already and he's going to go to another resident camp Now I hope to finish up his, his field work.
Speaker 1:That's great. So it depends on the major and then once, once we that's solidified, they go wherever they there's interest in, wherever the people can take them right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean for employment wise. I mean it's all over the map. I think some of our students are again landing full-time athletic director jobs in larger school districts or they're continuing on for a master's degree. If they want to teach and if they want to coach in higher ed at the collegiate level, they're going to need a master's degree. A lot of them may go coach for a year and then come back and get a master's degree. You know and or you know and our undergraduates tend to.
Speaker 3:That's what prompted us sort of to start thinking about an online adventure education master's degree is that we had alumni who were going out teaching and and they were calling us and telling us like we want to do something online, but we don't want to lose the hands-on learning that you often lose in an online program. So that's when Angela and I sat down and we really started talking about well, what could we build out in a master's degree? And we're using professional development workshops with our partners so that a student can go and take some hands on workshop, get credit, grad credit with us and then take online classes to sort of build on that experience. And then take online classes to sort of build on that experience and you know that's really that really the program came out of the feedback from a lot of our alumni.
Speaker 1:Interesting. So you have a full online program now for Adventure Ed or to get. Is it a certification program or is it to get like PDs? For once? They're teaching no it's.
Speaker 3:I'll let Angela talk a little more about it, but it's a master's degree in adventure education. It's 30 credits and it's designed for in-service physical education teachers who already have a teaching license to gain professional status or it might be somebody with a master's degree. We made it so you can break it into two certificates 15 credits and 30 credits so you can get obviously, you can do your plus 15 or your plus 30 with it, and you can combine up to nine credits of professional development that we work with certain vendors that provide workshops and then what we do is we audit those workshops and we can award credit. That's fantastic. Yeah, it's really. Angela, share a little bit more about it.
Speaker 2:Well, I think you did a really great job. Again, I think that one of the things is just noticing that there was a little bit of a gap and we felt that, with the history of the institution and being, you know, well known with the with physical education, that that was something that we could, you know, fill. And so we kind of spent a year researching content out there and and building it off of Knowing that folks would be probably working professionals. So, you know, having them take two years off to get a master's degree just wasn't going to probably benefit some of the people.
Speaker 2:Again, like Ted said, you know, 24 credits are asynchronous classes with nine being added for that professional development and really what we want to be doing is just supporting, you know, the career trajectory of an individual right, like you know, those nine credits are there to complement, you know, their passions and, you know, again, making sure that anything's vetted out. You know we have two strategic providers currently with High Five Adventure Learning Center and then Experiential Tools with Jen Stanchfield to provide some of that. But it is in its kind of infancy stage and something that we've gotten some good feedback from our current students. And you know something that we feel very passionate about is, you know, as you, if you choose to come here, is that we're going to support you throughout those, you know, two years or however long it takes. So trying to be really available to these students, despite it being an asynchronous kind of platform.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I can imagine that's that's so important to the support that they receive throughout this process. Instead of just you know, kind of providing and saying go, you know, so they so are we talking office hours and online support and different people who may be been through the program Are they kind of supporting as well?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I have. So it's kind of interesting In my head. When I first started teaching the online classes, I saw myself having office hours where students could email, you know, call me and Zoom meeting me. And what I learned quickly was is I've got 20 students in class, there's 20 different schedules and sometimes those office hours didn't match.
Speaker 3:So, while I you know, I think the majority while I have a block set of time, I usually end up doing grading and emailing students back in that block set of time, but it's the one-off conversations that I need to be available for. It can get unwieldy, as somebody who's never taught online before you could do it 24 hours a day. I told Veach it's like doom scrolling in some ways, where I'm looking at my email like, oh my God, there's another email from another student.
Speaker 1:Like you said, there's 20 of them and they all have their own schedules, so it's got you outnumbered the ants outnumber the grasshoppers.
Speaker 3:They, you know they definitely they got you outnumbered for sure. But what I found is it's still, you know it still meets their need for the social dynamic. It's not if it was just an asynchronous class online we would lose it would be so content driven. You know that I'd lose that connection and as a teacher I think I would struggle with that if I lost that social connection. So I've gotten to know a lot of our students a little bit deeper because I'm in my second class with them now.
Speaker 3:I'm starting to know what to expect and they feel more comfortable reaching out to me, I think as well, and sometimes it's a five minute Zoom meeting. You know, that's all it takes.
Speaker 1:That's all you need, though. Right, just that conversation. Yes, that's interesting. So now, avicii and Ted what are, what are some goals you have for the future? What would you like to see? This could be? What hopes do you have for the future? It could either be for the college or Beach. You want to go first.
Speaker 3:You go first.
Speaker 2:Well, I think, just in general, is to continue to increase the awareness of how important experiential learning is. You know, how much growth can you know happen within an individual you know to? To build out an experiential curriculum is hard, you know it. It takes a lot of effort and time, but the end result to the benefits that your students would gain from having that experience, you know, I think far outweighs the effort that you got to put in on the front end, right.
Speaker 2:And so I think you know, as as folks that you know, we believe in that philosophy and we believe that the importance of it and to you know, to keep trying, to you know, like our goal is obviously to get this master degree, you know up and you know out there, so that we can kind of continue that that we can try to reach more people to be able to deliver this in in a way that serves you know their future aspirations.
Speaker 2:Again, oftentimes like developing, that is scary for people because they don't have the tools or they don't understand how to make content um you know like we're just used to like. Here's the. You know that didactic teaching. Here it is up on a screen. You take the notes. I tell you what it is.
Speaker 2:And so we can try to continue to cultivate, you know, these. You know, despite it being an online classroom, it's kind of like, you know, like it sounds wrong to say, but I still think that there's a lot of potential within it, that they can walk out of that experience thinking that they can deliver some quality content that will benefit their own students. So it's just kind of a ripple effect, you know, and and to continue to hope that phones, you know, in these outdoor settings and all of that, can kind of be put to the side and that we can continue to encourage folks to build connections, build relationships, you know, learn how to do some of these life skills that will serve them better, you know, as they, as they grow and develop.
Speaker 1:That's great Well said. I could definitely tell the passion when you both speak about about your roles and your in your jobs, and you've done a lot of work. I can only imagine you know developing, you know the courses, writing the curriculums, teaching these students. But something you both said that stood out with me is the relationships that you're building with the students, but also having them help, having them build with other people as well through your approach. You know of a of an adventure education, so that's really awesome you, just you.
Speaker 3:I was gonna answer you when you asked the question like what are my hopes for the future in education? You, just you both just said the word like we. We've been on a search in education for I don't know, gosh, what 100 years looking. Is there a silver bullet, like what makes teaching and learning more effective? And for the last 10 years I've been doing some research on relationship development between adult mentors and youth coaches and youth teachers and youth. And if there is a silver bullet, it's the high quality relationship that's developed between a significant adult role model and youth. That if that youth believes that the teacher understands who they are, that's the first step, because then the second step is the teacher helps that youth set high positive expectations for themselves. And then the last step is the teacher becomes an advocate to open up new doors into new experiences to that youth member. And that if a teacher or coach does those three things, then all the other things happen the kids go to school more frequently, their grade point averages go up, they graduate on time, they're more productive in careers or in college. It's so I can't tell you how important that developmental relationship is, and you know I was lucky enough.
Speaker 3:I wrote an article in Joppa a while back, a long while back now, on a program that I was running, jopert a while back, a long while back now, on a program that I was running, and we did this with with over 4000 kids in the program, and we they all told us the same thing that it was the adult, it was a relationship they had with that adult mentor. Take all the other instructional strategies out of it, take all the content out of it, whether it's sport or golf or adventure education that you know. The dream here is that maybe we need to become more relationship based in our teaching, and that's. You know, we can't do that for every kid. If I've got 100 students, 200 students, how do I? I'd be exhausted emotionally by the end of it. But how do we at least demonstrate empathy to our students? If we can just do that, then they're more likely to buy in and believe we're there to help them.
Speaker 1:You got to start somewhere and I love how you outline the steps and, if I'm not mistaken, you have to do those steps in order, right, you can't have step three before you get to step one.
Speaker 3:You got it man, because if you try to help a student, set high positive expectations before they think you before empathy. That'd be like me coming up to you and we just met and I pat you on the back and I tell you hey, don't worry, I know you're having a hard day, but everything's going to be all right. You'd look at me and be like how many times has a student said you don't know who I am, you don't know what I'm about, you don't know what I'm going through? Well, that's because the empathy wasn't built before. You said it's going to be okay, there's no trust. So I think to me that hope and when we talk about some of the courses, the reason I can talk about this so well, don't tell my students this is what we just went over last week in class Angela so it's fresh on the mind and I've been doing a little research on it in it over the last 10 years, but it's just.
Speaker 3:I can't believe how important it is for for achievement.
Speaker 1:Well, you said it well, relationships, you know, are so important. So, beach and Ted, are there any ways our listeners can connect with you, either on I don't know what you're on either email or blue sky or anything of that nature. And if not, that's fine too, we can. It's, I'm on Twitter.
Speaker 3:Does that count?
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course. Yeah, it's not Twitter anymore, is it? No, it's X, it's X. I know I have to get used to that too, but if you want to email me that, I can put it in the show notes, because I'm sure our listeners are going to have a lot of questions. It's been really interesting talking to you both about your experiences and your insight and your expertise in your field. So, jake, you're going to have to come to a live show from the outdoor center. Yeah, I'd love that.
Speaker 3:I'd love that Seriously. We got to get you out and do a live show from East Campus.
Speaker 2:We'll send you the link to the website for the adventureEd and that also has my email on there as well.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, and so that'll be perfect. Then I'll link it. I'll link it up after, just in case anybody has any questions. So well, I can't thank you enough, professor Veach and Professor France ,You really expanded my mind, I think, our listeners' mind. It's been a pleasure talking with you both. If you have any questions, just email us at mahperdpodcast@gmail. com. We'll have this episode uploaded soon. We're also asking our listeners to just leave a review, a like and a retweet, because that way other folks can access the podcast as well. It's easier for them. So thank you both again. I appreciate it. Thank you all for listening. Have a great week. We will be back soon.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thank you.
