Episode 12: The Dating Dance with Guest Eric (part 2)

Join Kathryn, Marina, and special guest Eric in part 2 of this lively episode of Love Liaisons as they explore the intricate dance of modern dating across the decades. From personal stories and the challenges of dating in shared activities like salsa dancing to the importance of staying present and setting realistic expectations, they offer honest insights into cultivating authentic connections. Eric, a registered dietitian and salsa dancer, shares his perspective on avoiding drama, building secure attachments, and navigating the differences in how men and women perceive romantic interest. Whether you're curious about flirting, boundaries, or the magic of spontaneous moments, this episode provides practical advice, relatable stories, and plenty of humor to help you find joy and genuine love on your own dating journey. Cheers to living, loving, and laughing through it all!

Available now on Apple, Amazon, and Spotify Podcasts.

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Transcript

Kathryn 0:06

welcome to Love liaisons, the ultimate deep dive into the highs and lows and hilarities of modern relationships. I'm Kathryn,

Marina 0:17

and I'm Marina. And we'll be your love liaisons. So pour yourself a nice glass of wine or a hot cup of tea, and let's dive in. So today we're diving into dating through the decades and continuing this series with a special guest. We have Eric today who brings both rhythm and realness. But before we go and introduce Eric here, I'm curious. Kathryn, what are you drinking today for this episode?

Kathryn 0:49

I am drinking some green tea. And the reason I'm drinking green tea, as Eric reminded me, it's so good for you. It improves brain function, heart health. And let me tell you, I've had my heart pounded on a couple times, so I think green tea is what I'm gonna be drinking today. What about you, Marina? What do you have there?

Marina (2) 1:10

I found this great wine that I think really fits with some of the questions we'll have today. It's called the second cheapest wine. And I'm having a glass of this today. I think it goes well with this episode because one of the things that we've been talking about and debating about is who should really pay for a date? Is it cheap if a guy doesn't pay? Should you be upset if he orders the cheapest wine or what about the second cheapest wine? I'm gonna have a sip of this and I poured Eric Glass too. What do you think about it?

Eric 1:45

Oh the red wine is great, except it stings in the back of my throat.

Marina (2) 1:49

So maybe the second cheapest wine isn't the greatest thing and you should go for a little bit better. But I'd like to introduce Eric today. I actually met Eric Salsa dancing and you are 37. You're single, you're a salsa dancer. What else should we know about you?

Eric 2:08

That's salsa and bachata actually, but yeah, I'm a registered dietician nutritionist. I grew up in Los Angeles. I moved to San Diego when I was about 18, and I'm currently getting my master's in nutrition and dietetics just to further my knowledge and my career. And, I'm into fitness and health and quality, red wine.

Marina (2) 2:29

One of the reasons I wanted to have you on is because we have this. Interesting conversation while we were salsa dancing last time I saw you and you shared some stories with me. So let's get to the heart of it. I'm curious, Eric, you're single. I know you from salsa dancing. Do you meet women? Salsa dancing? You're a pretty good dancer. Where do you meet women? Have you dated people from salsa?

Eric 2:54

I have, but I decided to try to close that door. I realized there's a lot of dating within SALSA with a lot of partners, switching people, switching partners, and in the scene in 2025 in the scene of salsa dancing, it's acceptable that people just swap partners. And I know that if I do that and I like somebody, I'm gonna get attached and then I'm gonna get jealous, and then I might have a fit. Then I might have an argument in the dance floor and then you never know. I might have a fight with a guy and I don't wanna lead down that path. So am I open to it? Yeah, a little bit. But I don't try to go there to date unless something is coming out at me, because I don't wanna be put in that position and ruin salsa and, I, someone make a bad video about me and put it up, so I don't want to go there. And so I try not to.

Marina (2) 4:03

So I actually, I have dated quite a few people from salsa dancing here. And I lived in Colorado. I actually met a serious partner in Denver. But sadly he passed away. So that was a little while ago. But I've dated folks here, and you're right how you need to be careful. I know some people don't want to, because then it's if you break up and you look at each other and it's awkward, and sometimes it isn't. And. I do have kind of a funny story where I dated somebody and we were in a relationship, this was like years ago, like 10 years ago. I dated somebody from salsa. We were in a relationship. We even traveled together with our kids and then, whatever, we broke up and it was really over something stupid. And more recently I met a woman just, our kids were in the same school. And then anyway, she, she also dances and salsa dances. And she told me that she's also a single parent. She told me, oh I'm dating somebody new. And I was like, oh, who is it? Oh, you wouldn't know him? Okay, try me and. It was a guy that I had dated and then turns out we actually dated, or at least went on dates with three of the same people from salsa. And she, she was saying, gosh, these guys must really like Slavic women because she's Russian. And I'm from Ukraine. So it was actually quite funny. But we laughed about it. We laughed about it. In my situation, when I ended that relationship with a guy, it did not end well. And, we like make little mean looks at each other and don't dance with each other. And he'll ask one of my best friends to dance and then she'll wonder if she should dance with him. And then we make little err mean eyes at each other. And it's so childish. It's just so childish. If I even told you like why we ultimately broke up because he didn't like me telling him what to do and I told him he should drink more water. It was obviously more than that, but it was so stupid. And then now you see them all the time and you have to feel like, oh, now I have to ignore this person.

Kathryn 6:16

So I was gonna say I'm hearing a theme here and maybe it's just my personality and where I'm at in my life. And as you get older, everyone out there, men are women. You have a tendency to be like, you know what I'm gonna do me if you don't like it. There's the door, not disrespectfully, but I heard a couple things like what if this happens? Or what if? And yes, setting boundaries is key. And if salsa is your way to release, stress and it's just something that you wanna preserve, that's one thing. But the more we have this whole mentality of what if it doesn't work out? What if it causes this problem and this person now wants to date another person? Guess what? What if it does work out? What if this could be your person and you have this attitude. It's going back to having a growth or fixed mindset. This attitude of what if it doesn't work out? If that's how you're going into it, then guess what? Probably that's what's gonna happen. And you know what, if it doesn't work out okay, but at least you got to have the experience. Where I'm at is I'd rather have the experiences, even if the heartbreak is horrible and really makes me lose like eight pounds in 10 days or whatever it is, I wanna have those experiences. I actually want to live life, and I don't wanna hold back. And if it means that, I lose someone to someone else, then guess what it wasn't meant to be. And you know what? Everything's gonna happen. The way the cosmic or that whatever you wanna look is supposed to happen. So enjoy your life, everybody, my lovelies. Enjoy your life because guess what? If you don't enjoy it, and now you're just sitting at home going, oh, poor me. Don't blame anyone else but you, the person that's in the mirror, right? Because you have all the power to have everything you want in life. You want a better career? Go get a better career. Don't blame society. Don't blame the job market. Don't blame Trump. Don't blame this. You want a relationship, then you need to make time. I know why I'm not in a relationship because I'm not investing enough time to be in one, and like my sister said,'cause I said, oh, I don't have time. She's no, you are choosing not to have time so you can have everything that you want. It's all about balance. And also getting out of that fixed mindset. What if this happens? What if? Guess what? What if it's the best thing that ever happened to you? That's my motto.

Eric 8:36

That's a good point.

Kathryn 8:37

So what is this episode really about? What is the message that we're trying to relay? What do you think? What are we trying to relay to our listeners about what they wanna take away from this?

Marina (2) 8:48

I think that, definitely a message of hope, even though we're all three of us are technically single. I'm still hopeful that. It's possible to meet somebody, it's possible to meet somebody that you can be satisfied with. And I really like, what you said, Eric, it's very much aligned with the work of Sue Johnson on emotion-focused therapy and attachment related approaches where a true a great romance needs to have a secure attachment. Just jumping, like a frog from lily pad to lily pad does not make for a secure attachment. And yet a lot of people are doing this with the sort of fast-paced internet dating culture. And I think it's okay to order the nice wine. And I recently went on a date where this was an older gentleman, I don't usually date older people, but this was an older guy and he took me to a nice French wine restaurant and actually ordered the nicest rose. So I do have to say that I did concede a little bit because Rose is not my favorite. I usually like red. But I don't think that he was a huge fan. And he is what about Rose? I do like a nice rose. And he literally ordered the nicest rose. So I'll be going out with him again,

Kathryn 10:17

hopefully. And what that tells me is this is a man, and it could be a woman, right? But in this case it was a man that enjoys if he's gonna go out, he wants to enjoy, he wants to enjoy his life. Now granted, we're all on whatever our budgets are, but I'm just saying this is a person right off of the bat. He doesn't need to say anything. He's showing in his actions. Unless he is like lying, and that's a whole nother thing that he is showing in his actions that he wants to enjoy life, period. He wants the nice, bottle of wine. He wants to taste the homemade food. He wants to have dinner with a lovely young lady. And you know what? Spending an extra$50, it's worth it to him So that paints a picture right there as to how it's gonna be moving forward. And last, like I said, there's some deception and then he's second date. Okay, now you pay, the whole, what was that, Tinder, swindler I don't know if all of you out there listeners saw that. If not, go watch it. Not to say don't date, but just be very careful. Be safe, don't give money to anyone, don't wire money to anyone. Nothing like that. But no I wouldn't need somebody to order the nicest bottle of wine, but I just want somebody that's going to be a gentleman. All right. So any thoughts?

Eric 11:32

I think, you were speaking earlier about, having dinner whether it's Applebee's or Denny's or wherever. And I think in today's world, what I find is that these social interactions will be much better over some type of activity. And like you guys mentioned, walking in the park, Balbo Park is a beautiful park. Just the idea that you're not sitting across from each other and it almost comes like you're interviewing each other what do you do? I make this much money. What kind of car you got? Where do you live? Who do you live with? Things like that, things that can be, come out along the way, but something that would require some type of activity like taking someone dancing, a walk in the park a picnic like you've mentioned earlier where it's less about, interviewing the person and more about, how do you feel when you're with that person? How do you feel when they're out? How do you feel when they're walking? How, what kind, what energy do you emit when you're walking, when you, when the person is ordering from the coffee shop? Can you, these are little things that, make people fall for each other. Not necessarily sitting across how much you make, but how does he order? Is he looking at me? Is he, all these little things that make people really, truly fall in love and you've, you've both been in love, I'm sure you have, and it's not always about. It's those little things that make you fall in love over time. And I think if people can establish that and gear more towards that, instead of let me see what he's got. What kind of car does he have? I, I'm a sucker for the internet sometimes, and I've been watching these YouTube videos where and you guys might've seen him. There's a guy, he comes up to a girl, he says, approaching her to talk, and she's oh, I'm not interested. I have a boyfriend and then he goes back to his car. You seen it?

Marina (2) 13:25

Yeah. And then it's, the car's really a Lambo or something.

Eric 13:28

It's a Lambo or a G wagon, McLaren Ferrari. And then she comes back, oh, wait a minute. Hey, what's your name? He's yo, I told you over there. He's oh, I'm sorry. I was just being rude. I'm just, I was in a hurry and I was going to my friend's house and the guy's I thought you still, you're not gonna your friend's house anymore. No. Camp plans got canceled and she's coming back and she's looking for, money and they wanna get, they're gold diggers and they want to get something out of'em, and, oh, man I'm addicted to those videos, but I just think it's ridiculous that's what society comes down to and people think they deserve this certain thing, and that's not sustainable. That's not gonna last. It's not gonna last for her. It's not gonna last for him. You're not gonna fall in love with someone's Ferrari or Lamborghini

Kathryn 14:15

I said some people do, or some people have high assets themselves, so they know that they need to be with someone who makes an X amount of money because they're worried about their own assets. And so they, lots of reasons behind this, but yes.

Eric 14:29

I agree. There's always exceptions and that's probably one of them that you said.

Kathryn 14:35

But I think the theme so far that what I'm seeing, there's several themes but the one thing that I'm noticing and I think I need to work on this as well, is because I will go into a date and not necessarily have my list written out, but I have it in my head, like some of the things that I wanna know to determine if I want a second date. And I think what we've learned in this episode is not to throw away the list, but allow yourself to put the list off to the side and really just be immersed. And to the date, listen to what he or she has to say. Enjoy the date. Forget about Okay. What he does for a living, even though that's a big part,'cause that's how he spends most of his time. Really get to know him. How does he treat his kids? How does he treat his friends? How is he treating you in that moment? Is he respectful? All these things like really be immersed, laugh, have a good time, and for that moment, put away the list. So that's one thing that we've learned in this episode.

Marina (2) 15:26

Yeah, that's interesting. I've had a few situations where I've met people doing something I love, like salsa dancing, salsa Bachata, where I've met somebody dancing and these, there's two instances that come to mind. And it's just been fire just instant passion fire. Like in one instance, I actually felt electricity and it was like a big flame that then burnt out quickly as opposed to what you described oh yeah you like somebody and they well enough. There's a threshold, like you like them well enough and then they grow on you and grow on you, and you develop this secure attachment to them, and then you could really explore from there. But I've had those instances where it's been a big flame, like a fireball, and then it's like the fireball hits the earth and then poof. That's it. It's just up in smoke.

Kathryn 16:27

Reality sets in. And so it's thinking about what you want long term, not short term.

Eric 16:33

Mar Marina go without dancing, and sometimes we get some really great dances. Where it is that dopamine release is at the top of, it's at the top of the cascade, and you can only go south from there. And I know, yeah, you're not really building, you're just having this great moment of two, three minutes of this excitement, and then you're like, oh, wow, you're just a regular person. Oh. Kind of a cheap skate. Oh, oh, I didn't know you're homeless. You were

Kathryn 17:01

enjoying the moment, you were enjoying the moment. Didn't matter if a person was homeless.

Eric 17:04

Yeah. You think every, you enjoy the moment so much. You think, wow, this person must be, have the greatest job, great friends, great in bed all of the things.

Kathryn 17:14

There is a correlation to people that dance well to possibly being good in bed. I think there was a study on this. Not everybody, you can't put everybody in a box and label them, but there, there was a study, and it is true that someone that knows how to dance possibly could be better in bed. Silence

Eric 17:34

the horizontal meringue. It's the horizontal mambo thing. It's called mambo. I think that that makes sense for, so for example, if you just didn't know how to dance at all, that doesn't, that's not really a comparison. So they really have to isolate this study, learn

Kathryn 17:53

No

Eric 17:53

to, because you're being, you're dancing, you're being playful. That can translate to, being in bed. There's a certain rhythm to how you dance and certain mobility to, moving in the dance floor to moving on in the bed. For example, sometimes I'll dance with a woman and it, she's some women are like a race car driver and you're driving, you're riding a Ferrari, and some women are like a big fray truck and they can't, they don't move. And then you're like you can't move on the dance floor. I don't know if you're gonna move on your mattress.

Kathryn 18:26

It's like scent of a woman with Al Pacino. And that's the thing, my dad, he's no longer with us, but my dad took professional ballroom dancing. And whenever I dance with my dad, it really gave me a sense of, okay, this is the way it should be. Because he always said, you have to hold Awo woman firm. So even if she's the worst dancer in the world, she's not gonna falter because you've got her. And if you think about that in a relationship, you want to feel that way, you wanna feel safe, you wanna know that he's got you right.

Marina (2) 18:54

Yeah.

Kathryn 18:54

There you go.

Marina (2) 18:56

Yeah. Salsa's a ballroom dance, it's Latin Ballroom and you do need to have a strong lead. So I only dance the follow, you could have any gender, dance, any part, and people that teach do both. But I personally just do follow, I'm not good at doing the lead role. But if I'm dancing with a strong lead that I could follow, like when I dance with a dance teacher and I do Rueda now, actually I could do anything. When a teacher dances with me, and I'm good enough where if a strong lead dances, it'll be great. I'm not sure how well that translates into relationships.

Kathryn 19:40

Wait. When we talk about relationships or sex, that'll be another episode.

Marina (2) 19:44

Sex is part of relationships, but if you have somebody who's a strong lead in the relationship, is that going to give you as much mileage as having a strong lead on the dance floor? I don't know.

Eric 19:59

I think female nature is to make judgements based on certain characteristics. So if a man is, taking care of his body, wearing decent, nice clothes, she assumes he's gonna take care of me. If he's leading on the dance floor, she assumes he's going to lead well. The relationship. And it's not always the case, I think a lot of people have this type of judgment where they base it on certain things. If if a man, if very needy and is contacting the woman, they start courting, he starts courting her, they get involved, and he starts getting really needy calling all the time. Oh, I need to text you all day. Then she starts thinking, oh, he needs me and he needs me. He's not strong enough to be together without me. And then she starts assuming these, no, she's right to think that a woman is right to base those ideologies. And I think it's just, I think us as men have to be aware of, what we're doing, and how that can translate to a woman.

Kathryn 21:09

And vice versa. That's the thing. It goes back to knowing what you need, what you can give. There's a lot of women out there that want that man that's going to court them, woo them, and they love getting those text messages all day long. And then there's the other woman that's thinking, why are you texting me again? So it's really knowing what you want and what you're looking for. I've had several men say, absolutely, 100% I wanna court the woman I'm gonna send her. Good morning. In the morning. I'm gonna ask her how her day's going throughout the day. And then one last text, Hey, sweet dreams, I hope you have a good evening. Now, granted, they'll talk on the phone and all of that, but some women absolutely love that. Other women are like, I have a career. Like I don't have time for all these text messages. So it really depends upon what type of man you're looking for, what type of woman you're looking for knowing that ahead of time and reciprocating in such a manner.

Eric 22:01

See, I agree with you, and that ties into modern day dating. Now, this is what I've seen when a person is having an abundance of options, when a woman has abundance of options and person A, person B, let's say she's seeing three people, three, four people for the sake of the argument. Person A is texting her a lot, person B, texting her a lot per person. Cs texting her a lot, but person D is maybe texting her once in a while. A lot of nature in modern world is, oh what has he got going on that he's not texting me all kinds. He's a little interested, but who else is there? Is there other options? He has? What has he got going on? Whereas person A, B, and C are messaging me all the time, and guess who she's gonna wanna go after? Not A, not B, not C, but she's gonna get the letter D.

Kathryn 22:56

So that's interesting that you say that because I know me, my sister, my friends, that would be like the opposite. If someone, does not have the time to send me a text, good morning or whatever it is, or call me and have a five minute conversation, just let me know about, his workday, even if he was busy, if there's not like mutual respect. And I do see that as being disrespectful. I'm gonna say, I'm gonna text him and say, look. I haven't heard from you in a week. This goes back to what we were saying on the episode with Lana, the therapist about the bread crumbing. If he's gonna do the whole bread crumbing, it's not gonna work for me. I'm not even gonna think about, oh, who else is he texting? No. You know what? Go ahead, go after those women. If you don't see value in me, bye-bye next. And that's the way I look at it.

Marina (2) 23:47

Yeah. So I actually feel like, Eric, what you said applies. For how men see women, like my experience has been when I am pulling away, when I've pulled away for genuine reasons. I don't like to play games. I'm a pretty sincere person, so if I don't do bread crumbing, I'm literally just. Tired of your ass and when I've pulled away, like I'm not responding right away or anything because I'm seriously losing interest or I'm upset about something or I'm just withdrawing, then men get really interested and so I've found that extremely frustrating because I do want to have a genuine, authentic connection that if I like somebody, I wanna say, good morning, goodnight, or call them up. But I've noticed that, men tend to get more interested if I pull away, but I'm doing it for valid reasons not to play.

Kathryn 24:48

What I was gonna say on that, and what he's saying is because men and women do, this is the one. That doesn't want you now, you want them more. But if you think about how dysfunctional that is, and this goes back to respecting yourself, but they want the person that's like playing hard to get, which is playing a game. Okay? And that is where we get in this dysfunction and why so many people are not having successful relationships.'cause they want what they can't have. Instead of going back and being realistic and saying, Hey, I have two men here, or two women here, both comparable. Maybe this one's more sexy or more intelligent or more established in a career, or whatever it may be. But this person has the better substance. This person ultimately is the person that could be my life partner. That's what they need to think about. Is this person going to be my life partner? Instead of, this person is just way super sexy. I hear this a lot. Oh my gosh, she's so sexy. Okay, tell me more. I don't care that the person's sexy, sexy isn't gonna last forever. This really goes back to why people want to be with someone that they know they can't have. It's almost like they wanna win it. It's almost like when somebody says, Hey, do you think I can get her? And they have a bet going around to get her. It's just dysfunctional, it's immature and it needs to stop y'all.

Marina (2) 26:06

I think it has to do almost with a human version of supply demand economics. If you think something is in large supply, like all of these good mornings and good nights, and I love you, and all of these cute little texts and communications are in great supply, you are almost taking it for granted. But those rare things, you want the rare things. So it does have an addictive quality in that you got a taste of that rare like from somebody who only, doles it out once in a while, but it really is a breadcrumb. You somehow actually get addicted to it and you want more. So you're chasing that little crumb that is really not going anywhere.

Kathryn 26:55

So it sounds like we've established some things. Don't chace the breadcrumbs, the food or the person. What else did we learn? We learned, get rid of the list a little bit. Go in with an open mind, have organic conversations. Get to know them. Give them a second chance, even if the first date didn't go exactly how you wanted. Always have date Number two, maybe try whatever, a picnic on the beach, a free concert at the park, But make sure you're in an environment, my love. Make sure you're in an environment where you can have that meaningful connection. If there's a lot of chatter, then something's gonna be lost. So maybe someplace that's ultimately quiet where you don't have a waiter coming over every 10 minutes going, can I get you anything else? Like having that intimate moment, being true to yourself, respecting yourself, and treating others how you wanna be treated. All right. I think I need a sip of my tea, my green tea.

Marina (2) 27:53

And I'm gonna have another little sip of my wine, and next time I'm definitely gonna buy a much higher end wine. But, thank you everybody for telling us your stories. And thank you, Eric, for sharing your story and dancing through this dating minefield with us. And of course, to our listeners, keep writing us and sharing your own dating through the decades stories. We love hearing from you. And please remember to like us on Facebook, Instagram, and our website. Thank you for tuning in. So I'm gonna take a sip of my tea and I'll have another sip of my wine. So keep sipping, keep loving. Keep laughing. Cheers for now. From your love liaisons.