Episode 13: Hot Flashes and Real Talk about Menopause with Guest Brenda

Is it getting hot in here?  In this episode of Love Liaisons, hosts Kathryn and Marina sit down with Brenda, a women’s health nurse practitioner specializing in menopause and midlife wellness. Brenda opens up about both her professional expertise and her personal journey through menopause, breaking down the stages, symptoms, and misconceptions surrounding this major life transition.

From hot flashes and insomnia to mood swings and changes in libido, the trio explores what really happens during menopause—and, more importantly, what women can do to thrive through it. Brenda shares practical solutions including bioidentical hormones, natural supplements, lifestyle adjustments, and the often-overlooked importance of quality sleep.

The conversation also highlights how men can better support their partners during this phase and why maintaining connection, intimacy, and a healthy sexual relationship matters more than ever. Empowering, informative, and refreshingly honest, this episode encourages listeners to embrace midlife with confidence, humor, and joy.

Guest Brenda Lee Herrod is a nurse practitioner specializing in women's health and menopause. She works at New Leaf Wellness in Omaha, NE 

IG @brendalee_wellness;  @newleaf_oma

Follow us on FB @Love Liaisons, IG @loveliaisons, TikTok @love.liaisons

www.love-liaisons.com

For more information about relationship and mindful life coaching  or speaking engagements contact Marina at marinaismindful@gmail.com

Transcript

Kathryn 0:19

Welcome to Love Liaisons, the ultimate deep dive into the highs and lows and hilarity of modern relationships. I'm Kathryn.

Marina 0:29

And I'm Marina. And we'll be your love liaisons. So pour yourself a nice glass of wine

Kathryn 0:35

or a hot cup of tea. And let's dive in. So today we are blessed to have Brenda joining us. She has been in nursing for 32 years. She is a woman's health nurse practitioner specializing in menopause and midlife issues. She's been married for 33 years. And she has two grown children and is in post menopause. So welcome to our Love Liaisons podcast. Brenda,

Brenda 1:10

thanks for having me. I am very honored and I love to speak about menopause, so this is my jam. Yes, welcome. We're happy to have you here today.

Marina 1:19

Before we get started, I'm curious, Kathryn, what are you drinking today for this episode?

Kathryn 1:24

Yes, so I am drinking something that I think is very beneficial. It's called Red clover tea and. I found out that it actually contains isoflavins. It's a plant compounds that has estrogen-like, effects. So they could help reduce hot flashes, which if anybody's in perimenopause, they may be having night sweats, hot flashes, and other menopausal symptoms. It's really amazing to help with hormonal balance. What about you, Marina? What are you drinking today?

Marina 1:59

Well, funny you should, speak about that, about the symptoms like hot flashes because, the usual thing that I love that everybody knows is I love red wine. And, alcohol, especially red wine, can worsen symptoms like hot flashes and night sweats. So today I'm drinking something that's a little bit of a lower risk option. I'm having an organic white wine. As I mentioned, I went to Paso Robles, during the summer and visited a lovely organic, winery, Villa Creek and I'm having a white blend, from there. Some women, say that they could have fewer symptoms due to the lower additives and, a lighter wine has less byproducts of fermentation and it could have, you know, less of a impact on hangovers or menopause symptoms. So I'm having this lovely organic white wine today.

Kathryn 3:00

Well, enjoy. And what do you have

Brenda 3:02

there, Brenda? My favorite drink is, made by Redmond Salt and it's relight electrolytes. Pina colada flavor is one of my favorites, when you workout, you're sweating. You need to replace your electrolytes'cause your cells get dehydrated and it makes your water taste good. That's what I have like for when I first wake up in the morning and for pre-workout and while I'm working out, is I love the, the relight.

Kathryn 3:25

I have never heard of that, so I'm gonna have to look that up. Yeah. I am really big on electrolytes. Well, we're so happy to have you. And the irony is having these three women here and going through the stages of, I'll just call'em menopausal stages. You have perimenopause, then menopause and post menopause. I'm in perimenopause, Marina is in menopause, and you're in post menopause. So this is perfect because we can capture all three of the stages. Are there any other stages that I'm missing?

Brenda 3:56

No, not really. But usually menopause is like one day, the day when it's been like one year without a period, and then after that you're postmenopausal the whole rest of your life. So it never goes away. Our ovaries don't just come back to life, so it's something that we're gonna have to live with till the end. But there's things you can do to help it.

Kathryn 4:15

Yes. I mean, every woman is gonna go through this. So for all you men listening out there going, okay, I'm gonna turn this off. This isn't an episode for me. It actually is. And we're gonna get into that because in modern relationships today, men, if you're dating women in their forties, fifties, maybe even, late thirties, you're not just gonna have to deal with, are they divorced with kids? They may be in perimenopause, menopause. What does that mean? You know, if they have a mood swing or something like that. There is a role that men need to play. But on that note, I think I will start because I'm in perimenopause and I wanna share my journey and I, hopefully some of you out there can resonate with this and go, ah, I'm going through this too, and what do I do about it? There are lots of resources out there beyond your ob, GYN, beyond your doctor. There's natural supplements, you can take all that. But right now I wanna just talk about what I've been through and I realize now I've been through it longer than I thought. And so that made me feel a little unhappy because, when I went to my doctor I mentioned that., I was feeling a little anxious, but the main thing was right before my period, I would get really severely depressed. His response to me was, well, we can get you on anxiety medication, which also has a depression component. And I'm not a huge pill person. I do take supplements, but I'm not a pill popper. So I thought, okay, well maybe I'll get the prescription, but I never used it. So it's like sitting there now, it's expired. I threw it away because I also watched, this Netflix series, it's called Xanax and all the things that could happen with you taking Xanax. But as far as my experience was, that was, devastating because. I felt like what people are going through that are in a depression, and it was not pleasant. But one of the things I did is I started meditating, which also helped my blood pressure. So I thought, oh my gosh, I need to get on blood pressure medication. I'm too young for this. And I just started focusing on my breathing. Every time I went to any doctor and they check my blood pressure, it was like, perfect. And they're like, what are you doing? Because I don't even wanna say it was pretty high, and I just said, I'm just meditating for a few minutes and it's working. So the other thing that happened was I had, night sweats or literally I would have to like take my shirt off. So that's when I was in a relationship and I remember. Lying next to my partner and he's going, what is going on? Like, I was just wet, just really wet, not wet where I had to change the bedsheets, but I would have to take off my shirt and I thought, okay, something is going on here. This, this is not normal. I'm going through something. And I just didn't know what it is. If all of you listeners out there have been listening, my mother passed away a long time ago, so I didn't have her to go to, my older sister, went through cancer, so she's in a different situation. So I didn't really have anyone to go to, to say, you know, what's going on here? And so I did research. I'm a big research person, but I mean, I was having those heart palpitations. The brain fog was really huge. And so these are some of the things that I thought, okay. I looked it up, I'm like, there's something called perimenopause. I think that I am not only in perimenopause, but I think I have been in perimenopause. I was having mood swings, all these things. And I thought, oh my gosh, maybe this could have saved my relationship or maybe, if I just would've had the knowledge or, something along those lines. But I just didn't know. And the main thing is, and I'm still having this, I'm having trouble sleeping at night. It's horrible. Like I'm just tossing and turning, I don't know how I'm functioning, but I must be getting some sort of sleep. So that is really, for me, the fatigue, the sleepless nights,, the night sweats. But luckily I was able to get on, estrogen and progesterone and we'll get more into that. And so no more night sweats, what about youMarina? What has your, experience been in menopause?

Marina 8:22

Yeah, so, I started menopause and I thought it was a little bit early because it was when I was 49. I already had a whole year that I didn't have, a period, a menstrual cycle. Everybody has different symptoms. I like to call it the wheel of misfortune. Spin the wheel, see what you're gonna get. Overall, I'd have to say that my most difficult symptom has been weight gain. And over the past, like since I was 40, I have gained a significant amount of weight. I feel like my metabolism has really slowed down and it just has really piled on. But when I think back, I think about perimenopause. I must have been in perimenopause in my earlier forties. It started for me when I started having erratic periods and there was a time when I wouldn't have a period that I'd have breakthrough bleeding and it was just kind of a mess. And then I did experience the night sweats. But really, for me, like now that it's been, a year, the most serious symptom that I'm having is just really struggling with the weight gain. And I've been told that I'm not a candidate for hormone replacement therapy. Because I had a brain aneurysm that ruptured, that was repaired, over five years ago. My doctors told me that I shouldn't take estrogen, that it's a risk that I'm basically a stroke risk. So it's a miracle I'm alive, basically all that she could tell me is, just try to live through it. And that's what I've done is, I've lived through it and, other than the weight gain, it's really the recent thing is I've started waking up in the middle of the night, like at 4:00 AM and I've always been a good sleeper. Like I've even joked like I could fall asleep right now, just turn off the screen. I'll take a nap. I'll be good. I've been a pretty good sleeper. But yeah, I would wake up at like 4:00 AM and it would just get harder and harder to get back to sleep. Still, I'm kind of able to do that because generally I'm not an anxious person. That's the one thing I haven't experienced a whole lot of anxiety. The night sweats have kind of gone away, and now that I realize that my red wine passion seems to fuel the fire, I've kind of kept that at bay a little bit. But yeah, I'm really struggling to figure out what to do about the weight gain. And on top of that, I've had also less energy to work out. So as the years go on, it's like a pile up effect. I used to be very fit, like I've run. Two marathons, five half marathons. I stopped doing that after I had my son. So my son's 13 now, but I was still in pretty good shape. If you saw a picture of me when I was 40, I looked phenomenal, but I was also 50 pounds lighter. So that's just been a mess for me. And also for my identity.'cause I found that, you know, we live in Southern California where yes, it is pretty superficial, I found some people just don't like me as much that I am a bit heavier. Some people don't mind yeah, I found that it has to do with my identity as well. Some people just don't like me being heavier.

Kathryn 11:48

Okay, well you know what I'm gonna say to that? You know the whole let them theory, like let them, yeah, let them buy. I don't need you in my life. This isn't a quantity thing, it's a quality thing, but this is just my personality. And the older we get, this is a huge benefit for women. I don't know about men, I can't speak'cause I'm not a man, but a lot of women, when they get older, they start cutting people outta their life and they're like, you know what? I don't know the lady's name, but she does the whole I don't care club. And she is hilarious. I mean, she's just gone viral and she's like. We are in perimenopause or we are in menopause and we are here to tell you we don't care. And it's true. So that's what I'd say, you know what? They don't like you'cause you've gained weight. What does that say about them? So that's a whole nother thing. Well, what about you, Brenda? What has your, experience been with your husband or just going through the stages because now you're in post menopause?

Brenda 12:40

Yes. Well, a little background when I was. 20, my mom died. Then I, when I was 36, my dad died, both of cancer. And when I was 38, my brother died. So I was getting close to turning 40 and I was like, oh my gosh, life is too short. I gotta take care of myself. No one can do it for me. So that was a big turning point. So I got very healthy, I lost 35 pounds. I started lifting weights, eating protein. I got into, bodybuilding and I did figure competitions for show was when I was 40, and that's when I got my nurse practitioner too. So I was just starting menopause but the lifestyle of bodybuilding is really intense and so you have to work out so much. You cut carbs. So I was going through all of that too. But when I was in my forties, oh my gosh, it was so hard. And like I was low body fat, so that probably made my hormones even worse, you know? My kids were in high school. My husband traveled for work and he was gone all the time. And having teenagers is very stressful. And it was a lot for me. And I was working full-time teaching nursing at that time, and I could not sleep. I would just wake up at four in the morning just like Marina said. And you can't, shut your brain off. You just like worry about stupid things and just awake all hours of the night. Not quality sleep at all. You just feel like then you don't make as good food choices. You're not as in a good mood. And sleep is one of the biggest pillars of health. My mom worked three jobs. She worked nights and then she'd go work at another job without sleep and then she got breast cancer in her forties. So that, I read this book called Why We Sleep, and it just was life changing to me, so I was like. Oh my gosh, I really gotta focus on sleep. And so I tried to, but also me and my husband did not get along as well then either. You know, the relationship was really more strained'cause he was gone and I was like, not feeling good. And so it was a very stressful time. Brain fog, all those things. And then, when I was 50, we went to Hawaii for. My 50th birthday and I did not wanna be in the hotel room. I was like, let's go hiking. Let's go kayaking. Because the whole idea of a sexual relationship was just not appealing. It like hurt, you know? You have no blood flow there. It's not pleasurable at all. So when I got home, I was like, we were in paradise. What is wrong with me? So then I had my hormones checked. When I was 50 and I had like no hormones, so I was, like, wow. Already, I thought 50 was, you know, I was about 51 when I had'em checked, and I was competing in natural figure, so you can't be on testosterone or hormones. So that's another reason why I probably held off a little longer, but I was like, what am, I'm not gonna look good on stage if I don't feel good, if I'm not sleeping, if I can't keep muscle because I don't have any testosterone. So then I competed in 10 shows and I got two pro cards and now I have to do like the NPC, I can't do the natural federation now, but I, started on testosterone and estrogen. That helped my estrogen symptoms, my estrogen was so low. Like it was like all your tissues shrink, like pre puberty size sometimes and it can hurt to wipe to go to the bathroom. You're so dry. It is awful. Women get urinary tract infections. I had one of those too. And so then as soon as I got an estrogen that helped that symptom, thank goodness because that was awful. And like I said, no one goes through it the same. Everyone has different symptoms, so it's very unique what women will go through. And then I started doing bioidentical hormone pellets and that was a life changer for me. It was so helpful. And now I'm doing bioidentical creams and I really like those too, but. Oh my gosh, it was a crazy time and even I went to nurse practitioner school. We learned, a little bit about menopause, but it was always like the lowest dose for the shortest amount of time and then get off of'em. Because they're talking the synthetic ones that aren't as good for you, but the bioidentical ones are very safe and very important if you wanna live a healthy life and feel good and enjoy life. So I I'm 57 and I feel amazing. I feel the best I ever have.

Kathryn 16:51

That's great. I have not had that experience yet. Like I don't have any problems down there. Like sexual, I don't have the dryness and you know, I went through something called MIDI Health because I thought, okay, I don't know if I'm getting the responses I want from the OBGN world. And so I decided to go there, try it. I knew that they would take, my health savings account, all of that. And it was a completely different experience. It's all online. And that was another question that she asked me. She was okay, now do you need something to help you with intercourse with sex? And so we're gonna talk about sex baby. So, I don't have that problem. So I don't know if that's something that will happen or maybe it'll never happen for me. And maybe that's. A question a lot of women wanna know. I'm hoping, but I know this sounds really horrible, but my mom, God rest her soul used to say, okay, well you're get, you're gonna get drier down there. It's preparing you for death. Wow, thanks mom. Like, you're just really making me feel good. But she used to say the same thing when I would go and get a mammogram, and I'm like, oh mom, so what is a mammogram like? And she was just really blunt. You either loved her or you didn't like her at all, black and white. And she would say, oh, it's a horrible experience. They like, smashed your boobs together, put'em in a machine. I didn't think it was that bad. Like the way she made it sound was like, Ooh, I don't wanna do that. But, that was my mom. She's like, yeah, it's basically preparing you for death. Next. What's your next question? I've had a little bit of brain fog, but I mean, since we're talking about this, we could get into what the potential symptoms are because I'm sure a lot of men and women, especially women who haven't gone through this, and men who are thinking, wait a minute, I think my wife might be going through this. Or, I was dating a woman. I went on a date with her and she went through this. I thought she was crazy. Maybe she's in perimenopause. Maybe I'll give her a second date. But correct me if I'm wrong, I looked this up and I'm not gonna read them all'cause they're far too many. But some of the main symptoms, are hot flashes. Okay? And those could vary, irregular periods, which another reason why I know I'm in perimenopause, because I'm getting periods, different time during the month, insomnia, which we talked about. Fatigue, mood changes, which the mood changes could really affect dating. As you mentioned, vaginal dryness, brain fog, joint pain. So I feel it like in my elbow, stiffness changes in breast size and shape, skin, hair changes, you know, wrinkles, hair loss. And I have a song for this that I found, but before I sing it, I want Marina to chime in.

Marina 19:31

You know, so it's interesting. Like I mentioned, my. Biggest symptom that's problematic to me has been like this weight that I just can't really shake. But I haven't had a significant change either in sexual desire. I mean a little bit less like I used to be a much more sexual person. It's also I think maybe with age. So there's been a little bit of a decline, but not significant. And, I feel like I'm still able to, you know, get lubricated. And, for years, I'm obsessed with coconut oil. I used coconut oil for like, lubricate and I've just used it for years. So maybe that just, is that okay? I use it sometimes in my scalp, oh, absolutely. I use coconut oil for a sexual lubricant. I think it's wonderful. And you smell all tropical. Speaking of a Hawaiian vacation, it's like he's going on a Hawaiian vacation down there, a little coconut colada I found men that don't mind a fuller, figured, curvy lady where I used to be much thin. I mean, literally I was 50 pounds lighter. I actually started dating somebody a little bit, and though he likes my fuller figure, he is never met me thinner. I haven't even showed him pictures, but a lot of people know that I used to be thinner. But yeah, it's, it's just, I'm just curvier and, I still have the sexual desires a little bit lower, but it's all been fine and all that's been working just fine with the right person.

Kathryn 20:56

Mm-hmm. I just,

Marina 20:57

I just have like less tolerance for bs,

Kathryn 21:00

I don't have any problems with sex. Not that I'm, you know, I'm, I'm single now, but I don't have any problems in that area. I still have the need, so I'm just praying like that that doesn't happen. I'm hoping,'cause that really can impact a relationship it's not just about you, it's about your partner, whether you know your partner's female or male or what have you. But on that note, if you guys are ready for a little singing, I found this song and it's hilarious and I'm not quite sure who sings it, but I found it on social media and it's supposed to be a parody. You know, the song I Will Survive. It's a menopause parody song that I found on social media and I'm not gonna sing, the whole song, but I'll just sing part of it because it really. Pertains to this. So it just goes, so you are perimenopausal, you feel like crap and you look awful. Once you are insightful and now you're just angry, hot and spiteful, everything is dry, itchy, and your hair is so much finer oh, the brain fog. Why am I even in this room? Oh, no, not I, I will survive. I will survive, and I know I'll stay alive. Hey, hey. And so it just kind of goes from there and it's just a little humor. But as far as relationships, I mean, let's keep this real, right? I mean, we're, this is love liaisons. We're about modern relationships. And I happened to look online'cause I thought, what is the man's role in this? And I honestly had to laugh and I feel bad that I laughed, but I'm just thinking of men today. And I'm not bashing men. I'm not anything but going back into the dating world with the men ghosting you and this and that. And if you don't fit their perfect little bubble, they're just like, okay, bye. And so I think this is really pertinent, especially if you're a man in your forties, fifties, even sixties or even thirties and you're dating women. I think it's important to know what your role is, in this. And the main thing is support. But I found something that said. And I'm not gonna read'cause it's very long, but it says supporting partner by becoming an informed. So it's not just the woman doing research, becoming informed, empathetic. Hmm. Empathy. Patient teammate by understanding her symptoms are due to hormonal changes, not personal shortcomings. So it talks about going to appointments, I wouldn't want my partner to go with me to my appointment. I'm pretty vocal. I can handle that part. But it goes into all the rules that they do, maybe changing the thermostat or you have your blanket, she doesn't have a blanket, but understanding the mood swings what she's going with and using I statements. And when I read that, I remember long ago,, going to therapy or just with my degree talking about I statements and I'm thinking you should be using I statements anyways. Maybe that's coming from a place of judgment. But I just feel like yes, instead of saying, well, you seemed a little nutty today, just saying, well, I feel like you didn't hear me today. You know, but I'm sure there's lots of funny stories. And one of my friends. She's been married for a while and she posts on Facebook and it's hilarious because she'll post, I have the best husband in the world. He literally deal with 10 mood swings, and it's only 10:00 AM so I'm sure you can talk about that, Brenda. The symptoms and maybe what are some, remedies? There's eastern, Western medicine, but as far as what are some things that, women can do and men can, research and help their partners, whether they're dating or in a, full-blown relationship.

Brenda 24:47

Yeah, there are probably a hundred symptoms of menopause that people don't even realize are menopausal symptoms. The top ones are low libido, fatigue, and weight gain. Those are the top three that we see. But like the libido, it is a pillar of health to have a good sexual life, you get along so much better. You know, divorce is most common in the perimenopause and menopause years. And a lot of those couples, they haven't been intimate for like three years or you know, or a year even. You just get along so much better. You're closer, more confident, you just are happier. We talk a lot about that at New Leaf where I work. and having those symptoms controlled, like vaginal estrogen is so helpful for that dryness. It is something, even someone with that can't be on hormones, they could be on vaginal estrogen. So about a month and a half ago, there was a lot of really powerful doctors talking to the FDA and they got the black box warning off vaginal estrogen that said it caused heart disease because it doesn't. So that was a really great step forward when they did take the black box morning off, because, it just is local to the vaginal tissues. It doesn't go to your bloodstream, so it's not gonna make your estrogen level go higher. But it can help with bladder irritation, urinary frequency, the razor blade feeling when you're so dry. And then a lot of like spouses or boyfriends they're like, you're not attracted to me because they don't have any vaginal lubrication. Women cannot help it. It's just dry. It's just like, kind of like, ed, you know, they're, they don't work. And so it can really embarrassing for women and some women, just. Dread the thought of intercourse. And it's really sad because it's an important part of their relationship. But getting on bioidentical hormones, it can help you get that feeling back again and really improve and change your life and your relationship. So, but the weight gain is a lot of times, we get more insulin resistant as we get into menopause, we lose estrogen. And estrogen is really, anti-inflammatory. So our blood sugar levels will be higher and most women will gain more belly fat around the midsection and everything they did before doesn't work anymore because you are lacking those hormones. And then the best thing for sleep is my favorite is progesterone. And it is the pregnancy hormone. It is safe for anyone to be on. We put some younger girls on it to regulate their periods.'cause a lot of women have low progesterone and sleep is just so important. So it helps you just relax and just mellow so you don't have those waking up times in the middle of the night. And it also helps prevent breast cancer. It helps prevent fibroids. It's just important for your brain, your bones and everything too. The progesterone, so the one that I take is a capsule. It's compounded. And then, estrogen is like so important for everything in your body, your heart, your brain, your bones. It's not just the hot flashes and night sweats that people think of. Everything is affected joint pain. We have musculoskeletal problems with menopause where women have frozen shoulder, they're having all this joint pain. They don't realize that it's from a lacking estrogen. And then we get more dry skin, itchy ears, dry vagina. More wrinkles. It works with collagen and elastin to keep your skin looking younger too. And then your brain too, like dementia. We are having so many more women than men get dementia. So Dr. Moscone has a really good book called The Menopause Brain, and she's doing research to why do women get dementia at such a higher rate? And it's because women are afraid of being on hormones or their doctors won't let them be on hormones. You know, you have estrogen, testosterone, progesterone receptors in your brain, in your bones, in your heart. If you don't have those hormones there, you just can't think. And after a while it can lead to dementia. Very scary. And then your heart, heart disease is the number one killer of men and women, but most women don't seem to worry about heart disease, but that's what most of us die from. So when you lose estrogen, you get more hardening of the arteries or atherosclerosis. So it protects our vessels from heart disease as well. It is really important for everything in our body. Also testosterone is really important for women too. And the FDA doesn't approve testosterone for women. A lot of doctors won't order it because it's not FDA approved. But we need testosterone. We deserve to be strong, we deserve to have libido, have energy. When we're young, we have four times the amount of testosterone as estrogen in our body, but they still think of it as a male hormone. It is crazy. It just helps with inflammation. It helps you, just gives you more desire to go work out and move your body, makes you feel younger again. It is really an amazing hormone. Some women can just be on, testosterone and progesterone if they can't do estrogen too,'cause it can. Really make you feel so much better. The big thing is people get gas lit by their doctors. They'll say, oh, I'm having this symptom like you did, you went to the doctor and well here's, an antidepressant. But why not treat the root cause the actual hormones that you lost in your body instead of, just bandaid approach it with medications.'cause like you said, a lot of people don't wanna be on a bunch of medications, so, the actual hormones that you need in your body. But a lot of providers weren't taught about menopause in med school. They learned very little. Some of'em have gone on for more education. Like I go to world length medical training and I was just in San Diego last month with the annual summit, at least once a year, I go to one of those conferences and I get that education because, women are putting their lives in my hands and I wanna know how to take care of them and give them the best care. So World Link Medical is a great network, and I have, providers that are trained like me all over the United States, all over the world that are involved with that, that I can refer people to if they're not in my area. If your doctor's not helping you go get another opinion. Maybe your doctor is not up on hormones like. That's our specialty. So very passionate about making sure women, get their needs met. And we're typically caregivers. We take care of everyone else but ourselves. Our needs come last as women and mothers and my doctor said I gotta live with it. No you don't. There's things we can do to help you make you feel good and live life happy. So it's what we all deserve.

Marina 30:58

You're right, women really are caregivers. And. The caregiver needs care too. So, Kathryn, when you talked about the man's role, it's interesting because, a guy recently told me that, I told him we're doing this episode about menopause. And he is like,, there's a man version of it called man pause. And that's where, the woman has paused. Sexual activity. And he was just telling me that he's got a couple of buddies, also in their early fifties, and they've shared with him that their partners, their wives are just not interested in having sex anymore. So I think it's really important, and he called it man pause. The menopause, like man pause, like the sex life has been paused. I think it's important for men to really understand, what is going on and, to have some sensitivity and empathy, around this. And, what you can do to help. Because I think in general, a lot of men. Aren't really taking care of their female partners. I think Kathryn, maybe mentioned, I, I'm a psychologist and I teach primarily right now in a counseling program. But a couple of years ago I had a couple for a couples therapy and the wife was going through, perimenopause, just starting menopause also she had been diagnosed with anxiety, with heightened anxiety disorder. But she had experienced anxiety previously. It just got heightened and experienced some of the worst night sweats that I've heard of. Like she would completely soak through the bedsheets. Like this wasn't just, like I experienced, like my nightgown is wet and sweaty. But she said she just completely would have to change the bedsheets, like soak through very, very extreme. And of course this impacted her relationship with her husband, and, I think it's a real challenge for men to understand, what's going on here. This isn't something necessarily personal, about them, but just, a person's response, in this phase of life. So, yeah, I have seen a lot of people get into significant distress and separate around this time. People that have been married for 10, 15, 20 years end up separating in this stage of life in the forties and fifties.

Kathryn 33:16

So I wanna mention, something, because I think this is really hot topic and some people don't feel comfortable talking about it. I'm not one of those people I could talk about pretty much anything. So I really wanna delve on this. If you two ladies don't mind about the sex. So what I'm hearing from you, marina, and what I'm hearing from you, Brenda, is so it's not just being dry because the dry, it sounds like that's a pretty easy fix, right? But it's also mentally what the woman's going through. So I have a friend who said she hasn't had sex with her husband for a long time, and my response was like. Okay. The both of you need to figure that out because you just can't do that. I mean, sex is the one thing that the two of you, unless you're in an open relationship, but let's just say it's a monogamous, the two people, that is the one thing that you're doing together. You can have dinner with someone else, you can go to the movies with someone else. But this is the one thing that brings you together. And as you mentioned Brenda, it's also sex. Can be a release. I mean, it's good for health reasons, so many reasons. So if you're not having it, it's impacting your health. It's impacting your relationship. So you can't just say, oh, well I'm in perimenopause, so my partner's just gonna have to deal with it. And the partner can't just go, oh, you know, maybe I'll get it somewhere else. Or I, I don't know how much longer I can take this, like working together. So that's the whole thing, is we can fix the dryness, but how do we go in and fix on both sides where we can get them more interested? I mean, usually the man is still interested, but where the woman feels like she wants, like she's still having that yearning for sex because sex, whether you're dating, or whatever it is. It's still a big component of a relationship. So that is the thing right there that people need to understand, that you have to figure out what it is.'cause you need to continue having some sort of sex. Would you agree, Brenda?

Brenda 35:07

Oh yes, definitely.

Kathryn 35:08

Like you said, the health benefits of having a sexual relationship is like oxytocin is released so then you sleep better. It's a form of exercise, and the endorphins and so many great things happen when you have intercourse, physically. But yeah, also mentally you get along, like empty nest syndrome can be amazing'cause there's nobody around, and you don't have to worry about getting pregnant and all those things. And that's a time you should be able to enjoy yourself with your husband or your partner so it's really, like you said, when we're this age, we don't care what other people think as much. We've experienced a lot. We know who we are, we know who we wanna be, and it's a very empowering time. And that's what I love about my job, that I get to help empower women to, live a healthy life and do the things they wanna do. It's not just the end of time like, oh, I'm old, I can't do that anymore. No, you can still be active physically, sexually, and everything until the very end, especially if you're on hormone therapy because you can feel good again and, have your decreased risks of heart disease and everything else. And osteoporosis too. We lose our bone density when we lose our estrogen. So there's so many things that can be helped when you have, those hormones. And there's red light therapy for the vagina that you can use as well. And it helps, the mitochondria so it helps, your collagen and everything get better that way too. How does that work? It's just like a device that you put inside your vagina. So, it will help stimulate your tissues to yourself. Yeah. It's like a home device that women get,

Marina 36:37

oh, wow. That's new.

Kathryn 36:38

We need to try that out. I mean, not have a video for people to see, but I mean, I don't have the sex problem. Like, I have the other problems, but now I'm fixing it with, with the things that I'm on that I'm,'cause I was told if you're on estrogen, you really need to be on progesterone, or it possibly could cause cancer is what I was told.

Brenda 36:56

so if you have a uterus and you're on estrogen, you do need to be on progesterone. But some doctors or providers, they think the only reason you need it is for protection of your uterus. Progesterone is the calming hormone. It helps you relax, it helps you just mellow out, and it helps with decreasing stress. When you have a high cortisol, it steals progesterone. So we have women in their thirties with low progesterone'cause this is a stressful world, like seriously, very much stress going on. So a lot of women are low in progesterone. And so yeah, it is, it's good for women that are, just on testosterone that are in their thirties that don't need estrogen. And then women that have a hysterectomy, a lot of providers think you don't need it if you don't have a uterus. But it helps with sleep and it helps prevent breast cancer. The problem is there's. Synthetic progesterone, and then there's bioidentical progesterone and the synthetic kind is not as good for you, but a lot of providers and patients get it mixed up. They think they're all bad, but there's natural progesterone that is your friend.

Kathryn 37:56

I think that's what I'm on. I'm gonna have to go look. And I do take it at night, but I still feel like I'm tossing and turning, so that might be a different issue. But I mean, as far as dating I feel like if I have alcohol, especially closer to. Bedtime. I might have some issues with sleep. I know we're all different, but, how does drinking alcohol?'cause I mean dating, if you go on, on a date, a dinner date, more than likely the gentleman is gonna order alcohol. And most people don't like drinking alone. Mm-hmm. And so I find myself going, should I order an alcoholic beverage? Should I not? Then I'm gonna have to explain to him why I didn't order it. And so it's kind of, with dating it gets a little complicated because usually rule of thumb, if you're not going out for coffee, there's a drink involved. So how does drinking alcohol impact and why do some women have no problem and others it impacts their sleep.

Brenda 38:49

Well, alcohol is really a toxin, that's why they say intoxicated has toxin in it. So it's really harmful to your liver and to your hormones, and your blood sugar will go up and down all night long if you, I've had two white claws One night I didn't even feel anything, but when I went to bed, I had a continuous glucose monitor on my blood sugar was up and down all night long. And not that I, could tell, but my sleep was really not as good quality because of my blood sugar instability. and so there's seven cancers caused by alcohol consumption, including breast cancer. And everyone worries about estrogen causing breast cancer while alcohol is more of a, carcinogen than actually estrogen. You're gonna have worse menopause symptoms too if you drink alcohol.

Kathryn 39:33

So what does one do? I definitely am not a big drinker, but I'll have a couple alcoholic beverages a couple times a month, especially I'm a social drinker. But, sometimes I don't even finish my drink. But that's the dilemma. So if you're like, okay, I'm gonna drink alcohol, then what do you do? And does that impact, you taking your progesterone at night? I mean, should I take magnesium with my progesterone?

Brenda 39:55

Yeah, definitely magnesium glycinate is a really good one to take. I take bio optimizers, magnesium, it has seven types of magnesium in it. And then melatonin is another really great antioxidant for sleep. Every once in a while it's okay to drink alcohol. It's what you do every day that matters the most, it's what you do 80% of the time, that's most important. So it's gonna be okay every once in a while to drink alcohol. Just don't overindulge or do it too often. You need a healthy balance. But, just don't drink as much, have one drink instead of when you usually would have three or four.

Kathryn 40:26

So everything in moderation.

Marina 40:29

Kathryn, I'm surprised, you're kind of the queen of you do you, why not just say, Hey, I don't drink. Like, you just order whatever you wanna order a nice tea or whatever you like to drink. Why even worry about it? Who cares?

Kathryn 40:42

I see what you're saying.

Marina 40:44

I mean, I feel like it's more for me because I really like wine. Like I used to work at a wine boutique shop, as my side job when I was in graduate school. I go, travel to Napa, Paso Robles, Santa Barbara wine tasting, all those things. I love it. And I've noticed I really have had to cut down. So I think it's important, for me, and actually I did hear that there was a correlation between, women that live in, wine tasting regions that drink a lot of wine, especially red wine, have had a higher incidence of breast cancer. Mm-hmm. So, I'm really looking out for that. But one thing I wanted to say, getting back to the sex part. and for the man-pause of menopause. Sex isn't just sexual intercourse, you know,, my love language is physical touch. So I think it's important, if we actually have any male listeners or the women as well, that there's a whole process to it, in your relationship that even if you're going through menopause and you may have more pain with intercourse or dryness, just having really more of that physical touch gentleness, I think could be wonderful. More of the cuddling, more of the foreplay, without that expectation or pressure sometimes, can be helpful. So people will have to change. Maybe when you were, 25, you just kinda hop on it, but now that you're 50 maybe it could be more of a sensual, cuddling type of a sexual experience rather than just jumping right into it. well,

Kathryn 42:23

exactly. And I hate to say this, but I'm gonna say it anyways. I think this's what separates the men from the boys. So men who are gentlemen aren't gonna try and push you into this, right? And they understand that there is gonna be okay. Maybe you start in the morning, especially if you don't live together and you're dating, with good morning. Beautiful. I can't wait to see you. Like, you're almost like buttering them up,, for the date, you know, getting them ready, but also kissing. And sometimes all good things come to those that wait. So you men, listeners don't be in such a hurry. if you want. The prize or whatever you wanna word it as at the end, take some time, be a gentleman, get to know her. Don't say things like, I've got the first round. Think about, your dad or your grandfather and maybe the relationship advice he gave you. I think that's a big, big problem today. Even with men in their fifties, they, have this attitude. Well, women are making as much money as men. They can pay, first of all, if that happens to me, like, I'm not gonna be in the mood. I'm not gonna be in the mood to give you a first kiss. If you say to me, okay, I've got this one and next time you can get the next meal, that's not gonna jive with me. If I want to do that, because I think you're an amazing person, I will do that. I don't need someone telling me what I can pay for. And it's all part of it that romantic, like you said, marina. Maybe bringing her flowers or just the compliments or just literally taking time. I think I mentioned this, the whole Steve Harvey probationary three month period, where he says, wait,, if you're, my mom used to say, why buy the cow if you get the milk for free now she was very old fashioned. And I have nothing against people who wanna have one night stands. I, like I said, do you? But if you're looking for a serious relationship, it is sometimes better to wait. And building up to that momentum could be the best experience ever. But just really knowing what women are going through, I think is gonna be helpful. And all you men out there. Reach out to us, reach out to Marina. And I, we know about dating. We're in our fifties. We can give advice, you know, we may even have someone that you could go out on a date with. So let us know what you need and ask. Feel free to ask, because ultimately, the Love Liaisons podcast is there to help people. We want you to laugh. We want you to relate and resonate, and gain knowledge. But we want people to have happy, beautiful lives. As you mentioned, Brenda, this is stressful times, but it's also how you look at it. You can look at, okay, there's wars going on, there's political issues going on, but also you can look at all the beauty that's in the world and people helping one another. And so that's what I'm grateful for. And also living in Southern California, I mean. It's so beautiful here. So I'm so grateful just having the sun come out. I'm not in a tornado, I'm not in a hurricane. And so always go back and remember okay, why did I take this person out on a date? Why am I with this person for 33 years? Why, why? And just keep having sex people, like, figure out a way, whatever it may be, touching one another, just getting those date nights because you gotta somehow get that rekindling back. So I think knowing our roles and really, being grateful for the people that we have in our lives, I think is huge.

Marina 45:40

I wanna say, I think it's important for men to get comfortable listening about and talking about their bodies and their partner's bodies. One of my favorite mindfulness teachers, who passed away recently, actually, Dr. Larry Ward, we did a presentation years ago about mindfulness and intimate relationships. And he said, one thing is that men don't really talk about their bodies. They just die. And I feel like it is time for men to get comfortable listening to their partner, talking about their own bodies, and listening to their partner, their female partner, if they have a female partner talking about her body. And that this is something that you all, work through together. So Brenda, any final, thoughts about, how a partner can really help with this? That, I don't want this to be just like, menopause is just for women, it has the word men in it. Like, let's get the men involved.

Brenda 46:39

Yes. We get thank yous from husbands all the time. They're like, thank you so much. I have my wife back. So it is really cool. We have these women in their sixties that come in. This sparkle in their eye and they're like, oh my gosh, I didn't know how good sex can be. They're just having the time of their lives and their husbands are happy and their kids are like, God, mom and dad, you're getting along so well. They have no idea why and they wouldn't wanna know, but it's just so great I feel like we help save marriages, with what we do with bioidentical hormones. And you see, women that didn't feel like dating because they don't feel good about themselves, they're overweight and they do hormones and weight loss, and then they're like. I saw a gal in the parking lot she's like, oh my gosh, Brenda, thank you so much. I've lost 35 pounds and I have a new boyfriend and and now her boyfriend comes in too. They feel so good. They want their husbands to come in and sometimes it can really help men as well. They need a little boost during, you know, andropause.'cause they do have drops in testosterone. We have a lot of men with low testosterone. It makes them feel better and makes them nicer too. So men should be getting their testosterone checked too, because we can help them as well.

Kathryn 47:47

This is, a lot of people say, oh, I just hate this. Or, it's such a negative. There's so many positives to going through this. And we have to embrace each stage of a woman's, life, and going through perimenopause and menopause. Yes, we talked about all the things that can happen and people are probably thinking, ah, how do I postpone This? Sounds horrible, but you know, what, it, like you said, Brenda, I mean, there's so many benefits to this and the sex could even be greater. And just having that independent mind, being able to just say, I don't need this. I'm cutting you out of my life. I don't need this person. It's drama. Or just to be able to have that power back and to be like, finally, I really know who I am. I know where I'm going if I have a man in my life, if I have a woman in my life or not. And just really embrace this time because it is a beautiful, wonderful time. Yes, I said that. Beautiful, wonderful time. And just get the knowledge, get the resources. We'll give Brenda's information if she'd like us to. I'm sure she's happy to help and we really appreciate you coming on, sharing your own experiences and also your expertise.

Brenda 48:53

Oh, well, thank you. Yes. It just fill the hole in my heart from losing my mom and my dad and my brother to help other women and other people feel good and take care of themselves because, someday it's too late. We need to enjoy life and having your hormones checked and if you need some replaced, can just be life changing. Like you said, it's a great time of your life, So we should enjoy it.

Kathryn 49:15

So we learned a lot. We learned about the symptoms like brain fog, night sweats, having low libido, but we also learned about ways to remedy that, which is amazing and it's not a one size fit all. I didn't really gain a ton of weight. Every woman is different, and that's why it's so important to reach out, as Brenda said, find the right doctor, the right, support person for you, because there are lots of resources out there beyond your O-B-G-Y-N. And we just learned that this is a wonderful time in your life, so embrace it. So having said that, I think I'm gonna take a sip of my tea

Marina 49:51

and I'll have a little sip of my wine. So thanks everybody. Remember to like us on Facebook, on our website, love liaisons and, and Instagram. Let's keep sipping,

Kathryn 50:05

keep loving,

Marina 50:06

keep laughing. Cheers for now. From your love liaisons.