Episode 16: Love Like a Badass with Guests: Tina and Javany

The Badass Method - Finding Love After Divorce (with Tina & Javany)

Hosts Kathryn and Marina of Love Liaisons welcome Tina, founder of Badass Arts and creator of the neuroscience-informed Badass Method, to discuss shifting from performance-based identity to embodied self-leadership, midlife reinvention, and patterns that keep high-capacity women overfunctioning in love. Tina shares how a chaotic childhood and two divorces led her to mindfulness- and science-based practices, including HeartMath heart-brain coherence and Positive Intelligence concepts (judge/saboteurs vs. sage). She describes dating for eight years and going on 100+ dates, learning to drop rigid “checkboxes,” read dating bios, and prioritize trust and respect over chemistry. Tina explains her daily “I am” belief-based “badass formations” (e.g., “I am loved, loving, lovable”) and how they preceded meeting her husband, Javany, who joins to share his widower journey, instant recognition of Tina’s authenticity, and why she made him want to be a husband. The episode emphasizes safety, empathy, partnership, and mutual support.

00:00 Welcome to Love Liaisons

00:21 Meet Tina and Badass Method

01:18 Drinks and Vibes

02:51 Tina’s Origin Story

04:44 Divorce to Reinvention

09:35 Heart Brain Coherence

12:23 Dating Patterns and Checklists

14:48 Meeting Giovanni Online

17:17 I Am Practice and Manifesting

24:10 Belief Based Badass Formations

27:03 Trust Respect Over Chemistry

30:59 Handling Conflict with PQ

35:16 Meditation and Modern Stress

37:33 Advice for Long Term Singles

38:12 No One Size Fits All

38:51 Wired For Companionship

41:18 Why We Need Men

44:16 I Can Love Me Better

46:36 Calling In Real Love

49:21 Confidence Anthem Moment

50:50 Javany Joins In

51:43 How They Met Online

01:01:08 Wanting To Be A Husband

01:05:52 What Makes Love Last

01:10:17 Episode Takeaways

01:14:00 Badass Art Explained

01:15:32 Closing Cheers

Tina Bernard - The Badass Arts - https://www.thebadassarts.com 

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www.love-liaisons.com

For more information about relationship and mindful life coaching  or speaking engagements contact Marina at marinaismindful@gmail.com

Transcript

Kathryn 0:13

Welcome to Love Liaisons, the ultimate deep dive into the highs and lows and hilarity of modern relationships. I am Kathryn and I'm Marina. And we'll be your love liaisons. So pour yourself a nice glass of wine or a hot cup of tea. And let's dive in. So today we have the pleasure of having Tina here i've known her for quite some time, and she is the founder of the Badass Arts and Creator of The Badass Method. It's a neuroscience informed framework that helps women shift from performance-based identity to embodied self-leadership. She has a degree in psychobiology from UCLA and years of experience in executive leadership her focus really is on midlife reinvention, relationship sovereignty, emotional power dynamics, and the subtle patterns that keep high capacity women over functioning in love and leadership. So welcome Tina.

Tina 1:25

Really excited to speak with both of you today.

Kathryn 1:27

Absolutely. But Kathryn, first let me ask you, what are you drinking today for this occasion? Well, since we're talking about badass arts, I am drinking a wood dragon tea. It's an ancient red tea. It's a powerful multi and energizing red tea from old growth trees suitable for bold and visionary ideas. So I thought that would be perfect. What about you, marina? What do you have there, marina?

Marina 1:58

Since our theme today I think is really about reinventing yourself. So, my favorite wine that has this symbol of freshness, optimism, or celebrating yourself. For me, my go-to is always a nice pinot noir here. So I'm drinking this wonderful pinot noir that I found from Sonoma County. And, I really love the way that this pinot noir, it offers a bright, fresh light, cheerful and comforting taste for me. And I think that's really what. Tina's gonna share this optimism with us. So Tina, my dear, what are you drinking?

Tina 2:37

I love trying new things and Trader Joe's just came out with a Cherry Cola prebiotic soda. So I decided to go with the bright red Cherry Cola soda. And it's very low calorie, and I'm just, oh, I'm super excited and it actually tastes good.

Kathryn 2:53

Yeah, so Tina, tell us a little bit more about, your journey in dating, in getting you to this point. And just so for listeners to get to know a little bit more about how you started this whole badass method movement.

Tina 3:09

I have always been interested in mindfulness, in spirituality and in science. And those three things sometimes seem very different from one another. But they also have a lot of overlap. And as you both know, I have been married before and my relationship history was really colored by a very chaotic, traumatic childhood. And so I grew up with a concept of what love was that was frightening and unreliable. We moved around a lot. My mother was not a stable influence in my life. So when I became an adult, I didn't have any models of what love would look like or what relationships should be, or a healthy relationship for that matter. And I analyzed myself or my way through life, especially in the early years. My, I used my intellect to figure things out. That was my area that I could fall back on, which is why I studied science in college. That's why I studied psychobiology. I wanted to understand the biological component for psychological or neurological disorders, but that really only carried me so far because you cannot intellect yourself through life. If there's a disconnect between the head and the heart you know that you're going to run into problems, you're gonna continue to repeat patterns that aren't suited. So after my second marriage, when it fell apart, I realized I've got to figure this out. So I went on an exploratory journey, if you will, and discovered a many different. Modalities that I studied Dr. Diana Kirschner was one that I've worked with and studied positive, intelligent with Shaza Hamin the HeartMath Institute and what I, amongst others. And so what I came to realize was that as important as our brain is to how we function, if our heart's not on board, we don't believe it. We just think it, but we don't believe it. We're just gonna continue to repa repeat patterns. So that's when I went on deeper dive, if you will, to better understand why I was reacting to certain things the way I was, why was I either maybe reacting in a controlling manner or I was hypervigilant, or I was trying to people please, or I was avoiding conflict. And these were all because of patterns I had experienced as a child, which we developed our patterns early on. As a way to cope with whatever we're dealing with. But when you become an adult, some of those patterns are no longer adaptive. And so as the adult Tina went on this deep dive, I remember very early on after my second divorce talking to a friend and, I wanted to start dating and it was really too early for me to start dating. And he said, you can't date right now. And I was a little indignant and his reaction was, you're a hot mess. Anybody you attract is gonna be a hot mess. Do you really want a hot mess? I was like, no, I don't. So that actually put a pause on dating for the first year or so right after my second divorce. And when I entered the dating pool, I entered it with a different mindset than I had prior. But it wasn't until two years ago that I actually met my husband. So I was single for eight years long time before I met him. I should also add that I did train with Dr. Diana Kirschner and she is the bestselling author of a book called Love and 90 Days. She's somewhat retired now, but she's written many books. And I trained with her to become a dating coach many years ago, so that informed how I approach things. But I had to bring in a mindfulness piece. I had to really, you mentioned midlife reinvention. That was all part of the journey two years ago when I met my now husband and he had seen some of what I'd read, some of what I'd written anonymously. He said, you've got something here. You need to share this. You can't keep this to yourself. And when we moved to Texas last year, that's when I quit my corporate gig. And he said, now that we're here, you need to build it out. So that's, that is where we came and that kind of brings you to where the Badass Arts now is the com, the company that I'm building out, sharing more of my journey, the techniques that I either learned or adapted from things that I had learned to then help other women.

Marina 7:25

Yeah. Thank you so much. Oh my gosh. I feel like I've even learned a little bit more about you right now. And I come to find out, I think we both attended UCLA, is that right? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And I studied psychology, but you are absolutely right because. It is such a, academy focused like research institution that you try to, it breeds learning things more cognitively rather than necessarily going deeper and somatically into your body. And so now you know, you're talking about, this journey for many people, divorce comes with a completely identity shakeup and rebuilding and rebranding yourself after that chapter ends, is a challenge. I'm curious, was there a moment in time when you realized I'm really becoming a new version of myself that I like?

Tina 8:22

I guess that would the not a particular moment. But micro moments where I was able to respond differently to a situation with either greater clarity, more confidence, more kindness, more humility, where I wasn't just a reactive bundle of nerves anymore, but I actually could be more mindful. And that's not to say that I don't get heated. I'm half Italian, I get heated really quickly. I think it was just a series, but now I can look back and say, oh my gosh, I really, I went through the fire, I went through some traumas that could have, as I like to say buckled my knees and heaved my lungs when I'm actually here in this really beautiful, centered time in my life. Married to somebody that is the love of my life. My only regret I get a little misty eye when I think about this is that I didn't meet him 20 years sooner. I do wanna address those. You said something about more somatic. I have several favorite authors and people that I read their books or listen to their podcasts and interviews. And from one of them, Greg Braden, he's a, just a fascinating man. I dunno if you've heard of Greg Braden, but he was the first to introduce me, the concept that comes outta the Heart Math Institute, which is in Northern California, Stanford. And they've been around for decades, maybe 20, 30 years. They were the first to discover that there are actually neurons in the heart. I think they call them neuro sites. And I've heard anywhere from 200 to 300,000. So it's not an insignificant number of nerves in our heart. And the fascinating thing for me, so here's that science geeky side coming out, is that the heart sends more messages to the brain than vice versa. And that's when I realized. That if I was to engage in any kind of mindfulness practices and I approach them as performative as I did my five minutes meditation, check that off. But I didn't feel them in my heart. I didn't believe the mantras. I didn't believe the experience. It wasn't touching here, then it wasn't gonna affect anything in my brain. It was certainly not gonna change my life. And that was information that I learned from the HeartMath Institute and studying their, modalities, listening to their books, reading their blogs. I even have their device and they teach something called coherence, and it's really rooted in energy. The idea that everything around us has a frequency of vibration. This sounds woo, but it's very much rooted in, in, in science. The earth has the human resonance. Our heart has a certain frequency. It operates on. The brain does too. We have things called EKGs, right? Everything is frequency energy. Tesla, Einstein, they've taught us this. We know this for a fact. If we can. Engage in be behaviors and choices and activities that harmonize our frequency. And that's one of the things the HeartMath has taught me. We're just better off for it. We handle stress more effectively. We get back to center more quickly. It doesn't mean we don't lose our shit, get upset at times. It just means that we can regroup more quickly. So I wanted to address that because when I think about somatics, as woowoo as it sounds, it's not for me just because I'm gonna wear some white flowy gown and give myself some goddessy name. That's not my approach to it. It's very much rooted in hitting the heart first or settling in the heart first. I like to say like bio rewiring, from the heart outwards. That was kind of a long answer, but I wanted to share that with you guys.

Kathryn 11:43

And speaking of the heart, and today's actually Valentine's Day, for those of you that celebrate take us back a bit 'cause I really wanna transition and have the listeners understand fully what it would look like. I think it's a six week session at this point in time. What you take them through this badass me method. But let's go back a little bit and then we're gonna get there. So, as far as your dating is concerned, when you were dating and you went on a hundred dates, however many it was, what were like the patterns that you saw? What were some of the things that you experienced that got you to the point to really be open for? Your husband's name is Javany and we'll be introducing him a little bit later. So tell us a little bit more about your journey.

Tina 12:31

Okay, so as I mentioned, I was trained by Dr. Diana Kirschner to be a coach for her. So I applied a lot, what I learned working for her to my own dating life. For example reading the bio, not just looking at somebody's photos, recognizing that not everybody takes a great photo, and so sometimes you have to read what they're like. Do they meet? The basics is an important piece for me, and that does not necessarily include what some people, and it was hard for me to let this go. 'cause I'm a tall woman. For example, I'm five seven. I always wanted to date someone who was tall. Women wanna date someone who's taller, right? When I was a coach, this is a lot of what I say. I want him to be six feet tall, full head of hair, and he has to have a college degree and he has to make a hundred thousand dollars a year. And I'm like, okay, so here's the dealio ladies. Those men are few and far between. Would you date somebody without a college degree? Oh no. He has to be a lawyer or a doctor. Oh, okay, fine. Would you date a trait? No. I won't trade anybody. What about a geeky guy? No. I'm not gonna date an engineer. We limit ourselves with these checkbox of who we want. So the first thing I did was I removed check boxes as quickly as I could. Now, some I held onto and I resisted more than others. One that I held onto is I wanted to be with somebody who was Jewish. Now I, I'm a Jewish woman and. I was like, you know what? It doesn't really matter to me if they're Jewish or not. It matters to me if they have a relationship with God and if they respect my faith journey and I can respect their faith journey. So there was a pivot there. That was something that I had to let go of. I did go on over a hundred dates over the course of eight years, and it was a sporadic kind of thing. It would be go onto a dating app, whether it was Facebook dating or a bumble or hinge. I tried 'em all and then you'd go on one for a month or two, you'd meet some people, you'd match up and you'd just go, okay, no. And then you would, retreat like a crab, go back into your, hide in your little hole and that's really what it was. Over the course of eight years, I did go on a lot of dates, but when I met my to be husband, his profile was very different than anybody I had seen before. He also lived further away. He was, I was in San Diego at the time. He was in Temecula. To be myriad, to be exact. And I had just broadened my distance. I think I went from, 10 miles out to 50 miles out. 'cause I was like, there was not a whole lot that I was finding. And we matched and I tease him he's heard me say this many times, but his photo looked like he knew where the dead bodies were buried.

Kathryn 14:58

Oh wow,

Tina 14:59

He's got a stern look. He's half native American. He is got these deep set eyes high shake bones. And when he doesn't smile, like he he looks like, don't mess with me. And, but when he smiles he lights up. So I looked at this picture and it was like, kind of stern and I went, ooh, and, but I had taught myself by this point read the bio and what he had written was so thoughtful. Complete sentences with punctuation and not something formulaic, not, I'm looking for someone to walk on the beach with me now. There was a unique. Message in there. He talked about being a musician. He talked about being a widower. He talked about how much he loved his daughters. He's got three grown daughters. And when he reached out to me it wasn't some, Hey babe, you've got a beautiful photo. You know it, it was one sentence we should talk. And I went, there was something so confident and simple enough, we should talk now. He'll tell you. That's all he could think of saying. He said, I have no game. But I thought actually that was so badass of a statement. Now I didn't reach out right away because I was just, I was in that I'm gonna get off dating apps mode. But a few days later I got another message which said we really should talk. And I went, okay. Alright. The guy that looks like he knows where the dead bodies are buried, who has a beautiful profile, a beautiful bio in his about himself, I'm gonna call him. And so I called him on February 18th, which was a Sunday, and we went on our first date on the 20th, which was a Tuesday. This goes back two years, and I'm gonna have to back up and share practice I did prior to this. It's one of the methods that I use, okay, because it'll, the second half of the story, which is really funny. You need to understand what I was doing about six months prior, I started a practice that I call my I ams. I do it every morning. I call my I ams The moment I wake up. I will just immediately say a series of I ams that I believe. I call these badass affirmations, bees for belief and badass. I am alive, I'm enjoying the sun floating into the room. I'm here for a reason. Every statement, it'll be different every time, but every statement is 100% true. It's whatever is naturally in that moment, spontaneously coming through me. I am so filled with joy for this day, I'm confident that God's got a path for me. Now there's more to it than just I am. 'cause sometimes I'll say I create, I am guided by God. I know God loves me. I feel abundant today. Okay, so this is a morning practice. I do. It's part of my badass method. Six months prior to meeting him, I began very specifically saying in the morning, I am loved. And I would identify in my mind, all the people that loved me. I wasn't attaching romantic love to it. Right. I am loved. God loves me. My children love me, my friends love me. I just felt that love. I am lovable. That goes down to worth. 'cause a lot of women will maybe not feel that they're worthy of it. So I'd be like, I'm lovable. And I just embrace that. And I am loving, meaning I also generate and share the love. So every morning I am loved. I am loving. I am lovable. I did that for months before I met him. Three months into our relationship, we're on the phone and he says to me, I probably shouldn't say this, it's a little bit soon, but I need to let you know I am falling in love with you and I'm silent. And the first thing I say to him is, oh, I guess I'm lovable. And he was like, totally thought I was blowing him off, but I was having an aha moment. I'm lovable. Like this man came into my life for a reason. We, our paths crossed. I'm a very strong believer in God and that was such a profound moment. Now he thought I was blowing him off and I was just really experiencing the am amazing manifestation experience. I had just had I called in this man into my life. I manifested this. Not by future tripping and saying, I want love, but I am love, I am loving. I am lovable. And then he came into my life. So that, I guess I'm kind of lovable is like one of our couple like jokes. So I guess I'm kinda lovable, you know? It so it just, part of our, the part of the story of our, our coming together.

Kathryn 19:26

Well, I think it's a beautiful story. And what I'm hearing here is basically the buck stops here. You talked about manifestation, loving yourself. What we think and feel about ourselves is what it's gonna be. That growth mindset. So if we're telling ourselves, I am worthy, guess what? You're gonna be worthy if you say the opposite. You know, and we're all human. We're allowed to have bad days. We're allowed to be sad if not, we're not human. But waking up and being able to say, I am lovable. I am going to have a creative day. I'm gonna let the sun, welcome me in the morning, whatever it may be. That's the first start. We have a lot of things going on in the world today, which I won't get into, where we might start off our day not so great. So starting it off with a positive mindset, I think is wonderful. And it's probably where it got you to, Javany being in your life. So all you listeners, it starts with us and that's really anything in life, but I you gotta manifest it. And so we will definitely delve more into what you do in those six weeks and the badass method, but I think that's amazing and this is something. That I've been doing lately because I've been out of a relationship, as most of you listeners know, for about a year now. We still have a great friendship and it's really looking in the mirror and saying, you know what? I'm beautiful inside and out. I'm this, but I'm also okay being alone. I'm okay with allowing someone to come into my life again. So it, it really starts with all of you. And that's why I always say, do you, but yes, I love that we have to manifest it. I love that whole idea.

Tina 21:14

It's very specific. As soon as you wake up too, and this goes to the science of it, and before you get outta bed, before your pee, anything, because when you wake up your brain is in a different state. Your hormones are, your cortisol hasn't kicked in yet. You're more peaceful, like you're right then and there. That is the prime time real estate for putting and the kinds of thoughts and owning the kinds of thoughts and generating the feelings from the heart that you want to cultivate, increase in your life. Waiting five, 10 minutes, you've already started to feel the stress of your day. It has to go with brainwaves and hormones changing. So, it's like literally sometimes before my eyes even open.

Marina 21:59

Yeah, you're absolutely right. And there's even. Like this famous method called the Silver Method that talks about getting your brain into alpha. And that right when you wake up and then you can actually teach yourself how to put your brain back into alpha through the day, through this early morning practice. But you're absolutely right that these kind of a I am inform affirmations they're not just empty statements, they actually build neuroplasticity. So what you hear, what you repeat, it can actually change the way your brain works. So yeah, going from, I don't know if I'm lovable. I don't know these, I don't knows to, I am, and. Blending it with a gratitude practice. Like for me personally, because of everything I've been through, I know folks know I survived a brain aneurysm rupture five years ago that really like straight out kills 50% of people that experience it. So it's really quite a miracle that I'm alive without a whole lot of cognitive problems. So every time I wake up, I literally thank God I'm alive. And that's like I'm alive, I'm well, I'm seeing the sunshine. And of course we're in San Diego, we're always seeing the sunshine. So yeah, that is a blessing and to really remember that.

Tina 23:30

I am familiar with the Silva Method as well. I'm not as familiar as with others, but that definitely is part. I do wanna say the reason I don't use the word affirmations and I use bad affirmations, is not just marketing. It's because I, when I work with clients, I tell 'em that B stands for belief. A lot of mantras and affirmation work don't help a person because they are words that somebody else has created and they're saying it performatively or as a checklist. So when my clients and I work together, we craft constantly that affirmations that come from their heart that they fully believe there cannot be a gap between what your heart says is true and what your brain says is your true. If your ego is stepping in and saying, yeah, no, that's just bullshit, it won't work. So when I was starting with this, I am loved. I'm loving, I'm lovable. In my mind's eye, I was also. Imagining the people that loved me, the people that I loved, the aspects of me that were lovable, and that goes for whatever, whether it's prosperity or health or whatever, dealing with loneliness. The challenge with many mindfulness practices, and Marina, I think, you know, this is people put big goals ahead of them, and then they see that I, oh my, it's so far outta my reach. It's not gonna come true. But when you micropractice it and you start tiny, those baby steps build up. I tell my clients, imagine you have a puzzle on the table in front of you. It's 10,000 pieces. If you try to visualize that whole puzzle being complete, you're gonna be like I don't know what that's supposed to look like, but if you find the corners. And then you find a piece that matches the corner, you start to build that image. So that is one of the reasons why I'm very precise with my language, precise with timing. I want it to affect change. And so sometimes it has to be such a tiny step. You almost don't need even feel the change until 5, 10, 20, 50, tiny steps finally. Create that. Wow.

Kathryn 25:35

So I just wanna make sure I'm hearing what you're saying, because this is really gonna be a new notion for probably millions of people, because we're always being told, follow your brain, don't follow your heart because, you can't fall in love. You wanna have real love. Correct me if I'm wrong, I wanna make sure I heard what what you said about the heart and the brain being as one. So if your brain is saying, okay, this person is amazing, but it's missing this, I don't know, but your heart is just overflowing, i've always been that way. Like I may see someone and get the butterflies and I'm thinking, but is this practical? That's my mind. I'm a Libra. I'm like, is this practical? Because those butterflies could go away. Is this person gonna have a stable job? So I want the listeners understand. So you're saying like you need to connect the heart and brain.

Tina 26:24

You absolutely do. And here's something your listeners might not like to hear, but love is not the thing that sustains a relationship. It's not love. And I'll tell you, I learned that the hard way multiple times. If you do not respect that person and you do not trust that person, when you face difficult times together, love will not be the glue that holds you together. Trust and respect are the foundations. And I know that bothers people because they want to fall in love and they want those butterfly feelings, but there's a difference between chemistry and desire. And if you're going based on chemistry and you're going based on the butterflies and you just have that, oh, I want that feeling, you were addicted to a chemical rush that is not gonna sustain a relationship. Love grows when the foundations of trust and respect are nurtured at all times. And that's one of the things I do teach in my, my, it's actually an eight week course. The first week is an introduction. Then there's six weeks of body, and then the last week is like, let's wrap this up, ask any questions and stuff like that. And there's opportunity to work longer. I have some clients I've worked with for a couple years, but the love, like a badass, which is not a dating program, I call it a love cultivating program. It's eight weeks. And this is one of the things.

Marina 27:38

Yeah, absolutely. And what you're saying really builds on the work of John Gottman, who's, notably the most famous couples researcher in the US where he's, created this sound relationship house model where the main pillars are trust. So you need to have some foundation like in your relationship. And basically trust, respect, are pillars that keep it together. Plus, I think that having safety is important. We've talked about attachment theory and how that relates to adult romantic relationships and. Fostering a feeling of safety. And that is related to trust too. Knowing that, not just are you attracted to your partner, do you still have a spark? Do you still desire them physically, but that they will be there for you when you need them.

Tina 28:36

Absolutely.

Marina 28:36

And that could be in micro moments, like when you're just sharing something with them. Hey, look, this happened to me at work. And they're like, okay, yeah, I'm busy. I'm watching the game. Don't bother me. That's like little micro moments of rifts in your safety that can happen and over time and corrode a relationship.

Tina 28:56

If you cultivate the respect and the trust, you come back to center and those are the things that you water and nurture at all times in your relationship. Risks will happen, disagreements will happen arguing as part of the human experience, but if you have that commitment to patch those holes and those pillars when they happen, the love, which is that ceiling will stay intact. Love the ceiling will crumble if the pillars aren't there to hold it up. And that is something a lot of women, especially I think in our generation, we were raised with a, you can have it all and a lot of women confuse chemistry with desire.

Kathryn 29:32

So that is so true. I wanna circle back to something you said though, Tina, about overcoming obstacles and conflict, because arguments, conflict, obstacles 100% in a serious relationship are going to be a part of it big time. And so anybody can be happy go lucky when everything's going right. But when the obstacles face us, what happens? So in this whole badass arts method movement, when somebody comes in and they're handling obstacles and conflict one way, when they leave this, what is one to expect on how they can better handle conflicts? Because it's a part of any relationship.

Tina 30:15

So there's a methodol methodology that I'm, I am trained in, and it's called the PQ movement, positive, intelligent. It comes out of Stanford, the Hamin. He's written the book and several others and, actually might be interested in it because he does train coaches. And he talks about the judge, the saboteurs and the sage. And so these are this judge is like the master saboteur. It's the one that looks at things and it, it's judging the situation. The people are yourselves. And then it has subsets like the hypervigilant one that's mine. I grew up in a very chaotic childhood, so I'm always looking for the shoe to drop. Then you've got someone who's very controlling or someone who's a stickler restless. There's these different manifestations or aspects that the judge will show up as the sage is that inner wisdom that we have, and it's the part of us that knows how to navigate. Through these challenges. And one of the core things is to develop the muscle to say, here's a challenge. What's the gift and opportunity in here? Developing an interceptor muscle that says, okay, this thing just happened. I'm upset, I'm angry. What's the gift and opportunity? That's one of the pieces and it takes a long time to develop that. 'Cause that does not happen in a six week course. You do not rewrite your patterns in six weeks. You need at least 12 weeks, if not 15 weeks. It takes a lot of repetition, but the sage has certain abilities. It is curious. Ask questions. Can you take inspired action? Can you have empathy for the situation? Can you have empathy for yourself? Can you look at that other person and see the child in them that's behaving this way because of whatever fear or, emotions coming in right now? Do I do it perfectly? Absolutely not. I am patterned and wired like I was from my own experiences, but I, this is something that I work on a daily basis. I have an app, I do the practices. And a lot of the practices revolve around tuning back into the body. Things as simple as touching your hands together. When you're focused just on touching your hands like this, you immediately feel disrupts your thoughts. So there are times my husband, when he first met me, he was like, she does this a lot. Am I plotting? No, I was just trying to like, just found myself listening to sounds outside when you're stressed out and if you just pause in the middle of your day and you got all these things going on and you just listen to the sounds, 10 seconds further away. Sounds closer. Sound of your breath. So these are things that I teach. I will reference the positive intelligence. So in that six weeks, they get an introduction to this concept. If they want more meat, that would be more one-on-one. And I am gonna be creating more programs down the line. Love like a badass was born because people asked me to do it. I wasn't seeking to focus on love with this program, but I had several people say, whatever you did to get the relationship you got, I want some of that. And I went, okay, I'll create it. So that's where that came. But certainly these are skills that are applicable across every vertical in your life.

Marina 33:24

Yeah, I could definitely relate to that. And I'm forgetting the exact Japanese term, but there, I think it's like Ike, where it's like your profession is now your calling. I definitely have a sense of that with the work I do now with. Teaching meditation and teaching, at Naropa University, which is the first Buddhist inspired, and contemplative education university where like what you're describing is this feeling that I've had that like you were called to do this, that, you didn't just say, okay, I am gonna create this program. You know that from your lived experience and from others seeing you were pulled into doing this and, you agreed. And it's like this perfect, coincidence coming together of your love, your passion, your interest, and what the world needs.

Kathryn 34:19

I was gonna say, listening to you, the first thing that I thought of is the word meditation. So a while ago I had anxiety, maybe even some depression, and the doctor said to me, oh, I can get you on anxiety medication and I'm not a big pill person. I got the medication. It sat there, I never used it. And then I started meditating and everything went away. My blood pressure went down. No more anxiety depression, like I became one with myself. And so when I listened to what you're saying, it. Embodies is really meditation. And if more people could just take a moment, there's a lot for us to be stressed out about going on in the world, in the United States, outside of the United States, and there's plus our own, lives in the household and then you're adding on a relationship, all this, these things. I know they do it at my work where we literally stop work for half an hour and everybody that wants to can join like on a Zoom and we just meditate for half an hour. If you don't wanna join, you don't have to. You go about your day. But it's where we're at. And I think more work places are gonna be offering this because people are on like Hawk High Octane. High octane right now. They're very stressed out. And here we are talking about relationships. They're just trying to like, make ends meet and, all of that. But you mentioned empathy, respect, trust. I'm hearing all these buzz words for someone that has been out of a relationship for a long time. Maybe they had trauma or maybe they've just been busy raising children, whatever the reason is, and now they're trying to get back and you talk about patterns, right? So they have all this the way things are supposed to be and they're so used to being independent, sleeping by themself for years now they're trying to like, add this love, add this other person into their life in, in, in a unique way. Meaning not kids, not their coworkers. Actually someone to share their life, to travel, to have dinners with, to have meaningful conversations. How does someone in that situation, because. I really feel in the next 10, 20 plus years, we are going to have more and more single people. What would you recommend for these type of individuals? Briefly like in, without giving it all away because this is, I think this is where we're going. We're gonna have more people that have been single for more and more years. And now they're like, now what do I do? How do I find somebody for myself?

Tina 36:50

Okay. That is a huge question. And you've identified several different situations. The empty nester the boss babe who's done it all on their own. There really, there just isn't. The program I have right now is geared specifically to women who are divorced. They're high functioning, they've got their life together, and they want to date again, somebody who is so far removed from even that idea is gonna need a different kind of support versus somebody who, whose children have just left them. And so now they have, big house to themselves. So as much as I'd love to give you a one size fits all answer to that, sadly I can't because I will say we are wired for companionship. We have been taught otherwise, we've been taught we can do it on our own, but we can't as a species survival of the fittest. Is not what's gonna lead us out of this challenge. Actually, Darwin taught us that collaboration and cooperation are very important. So I'm actually worried by the number of people who have checked out and I'm worried about the number of men who've checked out. And I would even say that modern feminism today has driven a lot of men out of the relationship pool because they don't wanna deal with all of the challenges, heartache, hardships, that come with a hardened approach to dating and relationships. So you've asked a huge question. I've given you some controversial answers here. But you've also inspired me to think what would be the next program I would create for women who are not there yet, just want to heal their hearts.

Kathryn 38:43

Yeah, because I'm thinking about that, and even, I'll use myself as an example. I'm pretty independent. I always have this attitude like I don't need a man. I may want, but I don't need, like, I can pay my bills, I can take care of myself. I take care of myself when I'm sick. If I want a conversation, I can call up a gentleman friend. I can call up a female friend. I can call up my sister Marina. So I have a lot of. I'm blessed to have a lot of support in that sense groups, of that nature. But I'm also like, well, you know what, it would be nice to just find someone to add to my life. I have my life. He is his life, but we're adding to each other's life. I don't need to be joined at the hip. So I see what you're saying that, we are wired. If you go way back, Adam and Eve, and I'm not gonna get religious. I'm not an overly religious person, but there's a reason, that we, you know what you're saying. There's a reason that eventually people do want to find someone. This whole loneliness, we have an episode on loneliness that we're gonna put out here soon. Loneliness in the community is on a high level, and I, it goes back to what you're saying.

Tina 39:50

The last few years example, looking outside, beautiful neighborhood men take those streets, men built those houses. Men built the high rise. Men dig the ditches. Men dig the oil in the oil. Like women need men, and I don't mean that in a needy way. I mean, we need one another, but we were taught somehow that by needing them, that would lessen lower our value. The bottom line is my husband needs me too. He needs me for a variety of reasons that he can't satisfy himself. I bring him peace just by being female, by being feminine, by being a woman. When he goes out to his very stressful job and he comes home and I'm like in my joyful, happy state. Women need men too. When I hear a young woman looking out, the free looking out in society and say, I don't need a man. I'm like, really? Who built that freeway that you're driving on? Who fixes the electricity when it goes down in a power outage? Like we have denigrated and demonized the genders and men in particular and convinced ourselves that we don't need one another. And I would very much push against that, and I didn't always understand that, but I've come to say, it's all right to say I need my husband. I appreciate men. Our world need men. Our world needs fathers. It needs brothers. It needs husbands showing up with the respect that they. Or do we need assholes? No, but do we need men? Absolutely. Real men. And so we need and there are a lot of real men out there. That's the other thing. A lot of times women have a real specific thing that they're looking for. Mine was someone who was tall. I'm the same height as my husband. I weigh more than him. I always feel like a girl around him. So I share that because sometimes the ideas that we think are good for us aren't necessarily the ones that we need. But we definitely need a world where men are showing up. And so I know that annoys some people when I say that, but I'm at the point in my life where I really don't care. It's if look around this world, it was built by men primarily in service to women. When I recognized that, I went, oh shit. Like the house I live in, when the plumbing got messed up, it was a bunch of guys who fixed the plumbing and made sure I could have hot water again.

Marina 42:07

Yeah. We're at a point I think in the world where we need all of us. I've heard many leaders say, we really need all of us. I mean, spiritual leaders say we need all of us present. Yeah. I know men and women both work in different fields. I had San Diego Gas and Electric had to come out to work on my street. There was a woman working with them so, yes. And. Of course, I, I was born during the Soviet Union where men and women both worked together in a proletarian revolution. But one thing that, came to mind, and I know Kathryn, you always love to sing a song, and I'm still waiting for it, but the song that came to mind, it's different than what you're gonna sing, is, Miley Cyrus's Flowers that I can buy myself, flowers, write my name in the sand, that I can love me better. And I'm curious, Tina, like this, I can love me better. I definitely have had that feeling lately. I pay all my own bills. I'm a single parent. I pay my own bills. I take care of, my son when he's with me. And I. I, I feel like I can take myself out on a better date than some of these guys can. Recently one of my friends from high school, divorce single mother, she made this post of this is the life that I provide for myself. And she posted pictures of herself traveling, to the Caribbean, traveling here, traveling there. And she said, why would I wanna go out with a guy who can barely plan a decent date when this is the life that I provide for myself? I can love me better. What do you think of that when many women really can provide this great life for themselves?

Tina 43:56

When you share it with somebody who wants to provide for you and build a life with you, it's so much easier. But if the partner that was for you was by your side holding your hand when it got tough, covering the bills, when the money was short, I think most women would say, I think most men would say, I'd much rather do this with somebody who I can count on, who I can trust, who I can respect, who trust and respects me too. I raised my children. I raised my daughter on my own a hundred percent. Co-parenting went from the age of eight onward. It was exhausting. I went to school. I had the corporate gig. It was exhausting. I've taken myself on trips. It's funner to travel with other people. I've done the by myself trips to Europe and I've done the trips with people that I like. So I'm not telling women you gotta live the life like I have. I just think we need to start being a little bit more honest that we do have desires that we put aside for the sake of the way modern society tells us to live. And I think humans need each other. Women are amazing. Women bring so much to the world and so do men. I would love to see the battle of the sexist put behind us and be able to just respect each other and see what they bring to the table. And yeah, there are women who can do plumbing, but most of them don't. Just there are so many things that women can do that men can't. I'm just no longer. Operating in that binary mode. And I had to do it because of the situation I was in. But I think at the end of the day, given a choice when people choose to be alone or when they choose to be with someone who loved them, nurtured them, cared for them, trusted them, and respected them, I know what the answer became for me. And so when I started saying, I am loved, I am loving, I am lovable, I was calling in someone who could fit that role. Not in a settling way on what matters, but just saying, Hey, alright I'm ready. I've done it alone long enough.

Kathryn 46:03

So I appreciate you saying that, Tina. And I think this is really piddle because we get so jaded, okay. We live in this negative energy and it's not. It's a wonderful thing that you, women, I pay my own bills, all this, but what we're hearing here today is really important message because yes, that doesn't mean you can't, that you're not confident being confident in yourself but maybe you had a bunch of bad relationships and that's what you've lived in. But that's not the way it has to be. Okay? There are people out there that are going to resonate with you that are, you're gonna be, you said, an aha moment. So if you just live in this negative energy, then that's probably what you're gonna get. So even though you've had this. Past where it didn't work out with men. Not all men are this way. Even though you had this past where the woman, whatever I don't wanna use any words here, the woman was this or that. And, but that doesn't mean that's how all women are. And that doesn't mean that you're meant to be alone. If you choose to be alone, that is your choice and that is fine. That is a choice you're making. But what we are hearing today is that it's okay. You will find someone and it could be absolutely wonderful. So don't dismiss that. And this goes back to being confident not only in yourself, but being confident in knowing that you can have this relationship, you can have it all. You don't have to do one or the other. And that doesn't mean being in a relationship, that you're losing a part of who you are. And if that's what it is, that's probably not the right person for you to be begin with. It once again, going back to adding to your life. So Marina, you were talking about singing and Yes, I'll sing a song. And since we're speaking about confident I'm thinking of this Demi Lovato, I love her because she has her own story. I love her and she has a song confident, I think it came out in 2015. So I'm just gonna sing a couple lyrics here. And it says, are you ready? It's time for me to take it. I'm the boss right now. I'm not gonna fake it. Not when you go down, 'cause this is my game and you better come to play. I used to hold my freak back. Now I'm letting go. I make my own choice. Yeah. I'll run this show and it just goes on from there. What's wrong with being confident? Yeah. Yeah. So I think that really says it's all, you can be confident. On your own, but you can also be confident with someone else. And it's a beautiful thing when you find that person such as yourself, Tina, with Javany. And I would really love for Javany to come on and share what made him decide. Tina is the woman for me, a little bit about himself and his journey. So if he would like to come on, we would love to welcome Javany and hear what he has to say.

Tina 48:57

Hold on.

Kathryn 48:58

Perspective.

Tina 48:59

Hey, love.

Kathryn 49:00

Yeah, let's see him.

Tina 49:02

Are you ready to talk? They have questions for you.

Kathryn 49:04

Are you ready? Demi Lovato wants to know.

Tina 49:07

You know what? You can ask him to sing. He's a professional musician.

Kathryn 49:11

That guitar out.

Tina 49:12

Oh, it's in the closet. Okay. I'm gonna hand him the headset.

Kathryn 49:15

Welcome.

Javany 49:16

Hi for me. How are you?

Kathryn 49:20

Thank you so much for being on our Lovely Liaisons podcast.

Javany 49:23

for having me. Appreciate it.

Marina 49:24

So Tina told us a little bit about the story of how you all met and I'm really curious to know what was it about Tina that really sparked your interest? 'cause she told us from her point of view, you heard of course how she saw you on a dating app. Your picture wasn't, the greatest, but then your bio stood out and then your, the way that you approached her, like, we've gotta talk. She thought that was badass. So what was it about Tina that caught your eye and then later your heart,

Javany 50:02

well, let me, lemme go back a little bit. I had been married for 31 years and lost my wife in a sudden freak accident.

Marina 50:12

Oh, I'm

Javany 50:13

I pretty much had just thought to myself, you know, I was married for, three decades, had three beautiful grown daughters. And I thought, okay I'm done. I'm good. I had no interest whatsoever in dating, in looking any, anybody. And it was only at the urging, the very strong urging of my two, two of my daughters said, dad, you gotta, you've gotta do something. You've got more to give, you gotta get yourself out there. And I said I don't want to date. 'cause I hadn't dated it. It had been two years or since, my wife had passed away, had not been on one date, no interest at all. So they forced me into putting together a Facebook dating app like. I had no idea what to do. I didn't even know how to upload this thing. No clue. As a matter of fact, the picture that I took that Tina referenced, I took it in the bathroom of a moose lodge. Yeah. That was my bio picture. Wow. Because I had no interest. I just, I thought, okay, I'm just gonna put this thing up here. And I had been on two, just two dates, okay. Before I met Tina, and they were disasters, and I just thought, you know what? I'm done. I'm just completely done. So as a last ditch effort, I'm flipping through the book, taking a nap, and I'm flipping through and flipping through, and then all of a sudden she pops up. There was something very different about her profile. Number one was very clever. It's funny, she was clearly, physically very beautiful, very attractive. But that wasn't what prompted me to want to talk to. There was a vibe, there was something authentic that set her apart from everybody else. But I had no game whatsoever. I guess that's how the young kids say it, you got no game, right?

Marina 52:05

Oh yeah. I have a teenage son.

Javany 52:06

I didn't know what to say. I really wanted to talk to her, but I didn't know what to do, so I just basically said the only thing that I could up with, which is, and she didn't answer. A couple more days went by and I thought, okay, I'm gonna give it one more shot, then I'm gonna shut down my app. Then I said, we really need to talk. And a couple of days after that she called and from that point on, that was it. We had been, together ever since. But when we went on our first date, we had our first conversation on February 18th. We went on our first date two days later, February 20th. So we're rounding the corner of two years to our first date. When she turned the corner, the energy that I saw in the bio couldn't compare what she brought when I met her. And authenticity, a softness ness. The a smile that she had, I mean, there was nothing, pretend there was nothing. She was confident. She was lovely and she was funny. But I think another thing that really attracted me to her was she was about her family. She was about her children. She was about the pride that she had in them and the upbringing and their, she had been through. A couple of marriages. I was impressed that she did not bash her ex-husbands. And immediately I was smitten. And after being married for 31 years, something like that for me was at once scary. But also it was very clear this was the direction that I not only wanted to go, but I needed to go. And it was shortly thereafter, I think, oh my gosh, maybe three weeks or on the phone, we'd been on a few more dates and I said to her, I probably shouldn't tell you this, but hey, think I'm falling in love with you. I've fallen in love with you. She said the most interesting thing, she took a few moments of pause and she said to me, I guess I'm kind of lovable. And that really told the story because she believed that she was worthy being loved. She believed that she was ready and she had prepared herself and she had grown. And in the end, Tina made me, I knew that I wanted to be with her. I knew that she was my love for the first time in my life. She made me want to be a husband. That is very different. Wanting to be married, wanting to find a wife, wanting to find a partner. She made me want to be a husband. That is a uniquely different desire for a man. She made me want to lead, honor, respect your care for her. She brought that out in me and through our time together, her allowing me and trusting me to lead, to be consistent with her, to show her that I loved her and wanted her to be my best friend. That allowed her to be her true feminine self. So what we bring to each other is this wonderful symbiotic relationship of the roles of me being. Leader in the protector, bringing the peace and love and home to our lives. There's I could write a volume, but essentially that's what it's been us.

Marina 56:07

Yeah. It's interesting because I've heard there's so many, like male relationship coach influencers out there now on social media, and I've even heard some men say, that are in this field, that are in the relationship influence field. Say, a man knows in literally like seconds whether he wants that woman to be his wife or not. Now, as a woman. We're wired a little bit differently. I can tell you within a number of seconds if I am attracted to that person or there's a chance that I would like to maybe kiss them or be physically affectionate with them, or, they're definitely like some safety issue. as a man, do you think that's true? Like in a matter of seconds you almost biologically animalistically know she's for me or not?

Javany 57:00

And what's interesting, it's very fascinating that you say that because when I told Tina so quickly that I believe that I was falling in love with her, she is an unbelievable research geek. This woman is just, she will get right on and research and look into things. So she did, she found that 48% men. No, immediately on the first date, 48% fall in love at first sight. That's a huge number. She was unaware of that and she made me aware of that. And I didn't know. I just knew. And it's not something that you can pinpoint, it's just something that innately hits you or you just know. Referencing those two disastrous dates that I had gone on before I met Tina, I couldn't wait to ask for the check because I knew right away there will not only not be a second date, but there won't be a second phone call. And with her it was different. And when I told my daughters, 'cause they know me, top to bottom. And I said, I, this is the one. They both had the same reaction. They said, dad, we believe you because we know you. We know that you're not prone to being, somebody that goes out a lot and goes out with girls, and I don't, I'm not even a boys night out kind of guy. I don't do that. He said, you're a serious guy. You know what you want. You were faithfully married to mom for 21 years, so we get it and we believe you and you just know when you know, you know, and I've turned out to be correct.

Kathryn 58:50

Mm-hmm.

Javany 58:51

Which I'm very happy.

Kathryn 58:53

it's an amazing love story. I love hearing it. I have a question. I just wanna confirm something. Sure. You said something that you knew that you wanted to be a husband with her because you wanted to lead, you were looking for your best friend, you wanted to be a protector. So when I think about that, is that something, and all men are different, so we can't lump them all and say, okay, this is what all men want. But I'm hearing something and I wanna make sure I heard you right, that it was very important for you to have this role, to know that you want to not just be a partner but a husband.

Javany 59:29

Correct. There, there are a lot of and it was funny because I have a lot of, I know a lot of married men, men have been married for many years and they love their wives and they like being married. But there's a difference between liking and enjoying marriage and wanting to be a husband. To me, that's a different level because that means that I want to step into this role. I want to take my role, be that person that she needs, not just that I want her to marry me, not just that I want her to be my wife, not that just she's beautiful and sexy and we're gonna have fun and we're gonna go here and we're gonna go there and whatever. I want to be her husband. I want to be the person that she relies on. I wanna be the person that she counts on that protects her by its firm, and that is what separates it. Tina has a, just an unbelievable range of qualities. Things that she's, that I love about her. That's not why I married her. I didn't marry her for the qualities I married her for her. I didn't marry her because she was funny. I didn't marry her because she was beautiful. I didn't marry her because she was sexy. I didn't marry her because she was responsible. I married her because I loved the essence of who she was, which means if something were to happen, she were to get ill, or she was no longer, the beautiful woman that I fell in love with that didn't matter, loved her for that deeper.

Kathryn 1:01:15

And I think that's what keeps people together because if they're cohabitating, marrying, whatever, partnering up, whatever word, companionship, whatever word you're using in this day and age, everybody it's really boils down to something deeper. You use the word deeper, you said the essence, the substance, whatever the word may be. Because what will happen is if you're just being with someone for ulterior or like you said, funny, that can go away. Sure. Is this person gonna be there, like you say in your vows sometimes and sickness and in health, that's pretty old fashioned. But I believe some people still say that in their vows in sickness and health, and richer for richer or poor. And that should, when you say those vows, you should actually mean them. Because anything can happen. You could lose everything my grandfather used to say, never me. Measure the man when his pockets are full. Measure the man when his pockets are empty. That's brilliant because it's true. How is he gonna act? Is he be gonna become angry? Is he gonna come home in a bad mood? Is he gonna still keep the household together, still have laughter, still say, you know what, we're gonna make it through. We're gonna be in this together. Is he going to pull up his britches and still take care of the family? Same thing with a woman. How is she gonna act when times get tough? Is she gonna say, okay, what do I need to do? Do I need to get a second job? What do I need to do? And you work together as a team. Huge difference. Absolutely.

Javany 1:02:40

The marriage is easy when everything is flush, when the money's good and you know the vacations are there and the, you're driving nice cars. We have plenty. It's when the things crash. And then what do you do? That is, I've been around the block, long enough to know, and that's what matters. And Tina is just this, she gives me what it is I crave, which is I love the notion, the idea of coming home, I think about her, how she's going to greet me at the door the house, how warm it's gonna be, what she's gonna provide in terms of a home. And that motivates me to be the husband that I need to be in, the husband that she needs.

Marina 1:03:33

I have to say I love hearing this. So I've been a relationship researcher, done couples therapy coaching and, psychology professor for. Over 20 years now, if you count everything, and from everything that we know and the way that I hear you talking about each other, you'll, you definitely have a stable and satisfying relationship and I would bet that you'll be together for the long haul. You both have a sense, and I'll tell you exactly what it is. You have a sense of fondness and admiration for each other. You have a sense of friendship. You offer each other intimate safety in that, I could see Tina being comfortable being vulnerable with you and you from the get go. Were even vulnerable with her. That vulnerability of saying, I think I'm falling in love with you. Wow. A woman could have said, Hey, I don't know about this. And there's lots of comedies about that too. Seinfeld type comedies of you don't wanna share too early. you did, you took the chance and you were greeted with openness. You were greeted with acceptance. And you offer support for each other. You're each other's biggest fans. And what you really said is that, yes, you, if you are lucky, you will see each other. We are of the nature to grow old. We are human. We're are of the nature to get sick. And what the only thing that's true in this life are death and taxes. We will die. That's true. And if you're lucky, you will be there with each other, through the oldness, through the frailness, through the sickness and the end. So what's left is that essence of that person, I lost my father last year. My parents were married 50 years. My father passed away of a very difficult cancer very like untreatable rare cancer. And I have to say through the end, the last month, the last weeks of his life, he was still him. He was still him underneath it all. He was like, marina, get me a beer. I want a Stella Trois, and I want oysters.

Javany 1:05:59

There you go. Love

Marina 1:06:00

that. I was like, this man's dying. And he was like, I need a beer and I need oysters now. That's so great.

Kathryn 1:06:07

I remember my dad. I was sitting next to him. And he said to me, Kathryn, can you go to inn out and get me a double double? I said, have you lost your mind? Like you can't have a double, you can't even take down broth right now. But we were just laughing because that was so him, and that's the way, this is what I'm talking about, still being able to have a sense of humor, still showing the love and compassion even in really tough times. And that's what's important. And we thank you so much for coming on, and we love your love journey. And thank you. And thank you so much.

Javany 1:06:42

Thank you for having me. At, in the end I can tell you that I've watched Tina put together this amazing, the badass arts and there is. Every single bit of this is true and it's genuine. And her own self practice, even before she named this and created it, is what drew me to her. And I'm so proud of what she's done. And I know that, going forward, it's just gonna be amazing. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you.

Marina 1:07:18

I think that, you are an example of a good power couple. Like you will be successful together because you have these foundations, you have these building blocks, and you provide a sense of safety for each other and you're willing to work on it. So I love seeing that. I think it's very inspirational.

Javany 1:07:39

Thank you so much.

Kathryn 1:07:40

That was so nice, Tina being able to hear the male perspective. Please, tell him once again from, us, marina and Kathryn, thank you so much to him for coming on. And we wanna tie things together and I think mostly, what we've heard in this episode is really removing the check boxes. That when you're looking for someone, the person needs to respect your faith journey. If you're on those dating apps, which still millions of people are, read the bios. Don't just look at the pic picture and swipe right, swipe left. Actually take time to look at the bio because the time they put into it means the time they may put into you as well. And you go back to the bad ass aspirations. The I Ams, I am alive, I'm here. All those things. I am lovable and manifesting it to get out of your brain and providing a peaceful home, and having empathy. He mentioned not just wanting to be a partner but a husband. And the reason he wanted to be a husband is because, you allowed him. To lead, to be the protector, to have a home to discuss family values. Having, as Marina mentioned, the fondness and admiration. A couple had mentioned that are, they make each other feel safe. That vulnerability and ultimately supporting one another in your endeavors, and that's what, brings us really to a close about the whole badass arts and sup. He supports you in this 100%.

Tina 1:09:20

A hundred percent. I have been a career woman for my whole life in different corporate situations, from mega, huge biz companies to startups. And when we moved here to Texas, he was one who said, you gotta build this. He was the one who had the, and so I would say that we have a very modern marriage in that way. And that is, it's funny, he talks about leading. He doesn't tell you that he does the dishes and he cooks and he cleans, why

Marina 1:09:48

not? That's

Tina 1:09:49

leadership

Marina 1:09:50

as well.

Tina 1:09:50

And so I guess what I'm just saying is that we have a very, balanced, graded relationship and he supports me 100%. And my goal is for this business to, to become so successful that I get to retire him.

Marina 1:10:02

Yeah. And I love that you said he does house work without having to be asked. That's a sense of leadership. This is his house, this isn't like a hotel, so Yeah. Take the role of I'm gonna keep my house beautiful too.

Tina 1:10:18

Absolutely. We support one another and, so you have a beautiful voice.

Kathryn 1:10:22

And that's the thing, I run into so many men that they'll say, no, I don't cook, I don't clean. And I gotta say it's a little bit of a turnoff because I don't mind cooking and cleaning. Marina knows I make cakes, I cook, I, I can do it all. But the point is I want to be able to have someone that can also do these things. We do 'em together. Maybe we're singing in the kitchen and we're washing the dishes, or whatever it may be. I don't, I, I don't think there needs to be necessarily, where the woman just does this. The man just does this, once again, supporting one another, being the wife, being the husband, not just the companion is the theme that we're hearing here. And going sometimes out of your comfort zone is a, it's not a bad thing, what you were doing before isn't working. So maybe trying something new might be the solution.

Tina 1:11:13

If there's one last thing I can say, 'cause I did wanna address the reason that the company is called The Badass Arts, and it has to do with a book that I've written that's gonna be published later this year. The book is called The Badass Art of Appreciation, living Bigly with South and Soul. And I differentiate between appreciation and gratitude. They're not the same use synonymously to mean thanks, but they're energetically very different. So I wrote the book, part of the Journey, and when he read the book, he said, you didn't write a book, you created a movement. So that's why the company badass arts. That's where the badass comes into.

Marina 1:11:50

And yeah, I definitely, there's gratitude practices, I think and I know we need to wrap up in a minute, but I, I do understand, where appreciation can be more of like a feeling, but gratitude is an action that, it's like an act of actually. Like doing that and telling somebody that you, telling somebody that they make you happy. So I'm not sure if that's the differentiation you make, but I know that gratitude's an active practice. I

Tina 1:12:26

think we need to, I make it

Marina 1:12:26

more of that.

Tina 1:12:28

I just really, enjoyed this conversation. Thank you both for having me on.

Kathryn 1:12:33

I'm gonna take a sip of my tea

Marina 1:12:35

and I'll have another sip of my wine.

Kathryn 1:12:38

So keep sipping,

Marina 1:12:40

keep loving and keep laughing. Cheers for now, from your love, love liaisons.