Secrets, Lies, and Radioactivity

The episode explores two intertwined true crime stories: the Isdal Woman, a mysterious figure whose charred body was found in Norway in 1970, and Alexander Litvinenko, a poisoned former KGB agent in 2006. Both cases reflect the high stakes of espionage, identity, and unexpected twists of fate, while also raising questions about accountability and the pursuit of truth.

• The Isdal Woman’s body discovered in Norway prompts questions of identity and espionage
• Authorities initially suspect suicide, but evidence points to a darker story
• Litvinenko's whistleblowing against the Russian government leads to his fatal poisoning
• The use of Polonium-210 in Litvinenko's assassination suggests state-sponsored involvement
• The podcast invites listeners to engage with the mystery and share their perspectives

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:22

Before we begin today's episode of the Black Curtain Club, we would like to share a quick disclaimer. The views, opinions and statements expressed by the hosts and guests on this podcast are their own personal view and are provided in their personal capacity. All content is editorial and opinion-based, intended for entertainment purposes only. Listener discretion is advised for entertainment purposes only.

Speaker 2 0:47

Listener discretion is advised. I've been dying to talk about these two cases for a long time, so I'm like really excited.

Speaker 3 0:53

Hi everybody, Welcome back to the Black Curtain Club podcast. This is your Becca and Angie episode to follow up our friends Nessie and Brooke from last week's episode on healthy relationships. How has your week been, Angie?

Speaker 2 1:05

It's been good. It's been good. Really excited for last week's episode. A lot of good feedback. It's been a really chill week and, yeah, just excited to be here.

Speaker 3 1:14

I feel the same. We got a lot of positive reviews on the last episode and it's got me really excited to come in here and talk about some true crime with you. I know it's something we're both passionate about, yeah.

Speaker 2 1:25

So yeah Like.

Speaker 3 1:30

Go ahead, go ahead, fuck. Hey. Hey, angie, why don't you tell them what we're pulling the curtain back on today, hey.

Speaker 2 1:46

Angie, why don't you tell them what? We're pulling the curtain back on today? So today we're having a bit of Murderous Monday. We also, I think, have a case of the giggles. So, pardon us, we are diving into two infamous stories. One is the Isdal Woman and then we have Alexander Levenko. So these are two of our favorite true crime tales that have been on our minds since we have known each other.

Speaker 3 2:13

Yes, I know a little bit about the Isdal Woman. I don't know the full story so I'm excited to kind of jump into that. But I feel like the Alexander Levenko case has been taking up so much valuable real estate in my mind. I'm excited for us to dive in. Why don't you?

Speaker 2 2:28

take it away. Well, I'm so excited to talk about this. So I first heard this story like way, way back in the day when BuzzFeed Unsolved first came on the scene, and I've been obsessed with this story ever since. So today, becca, I've got a real brain buster for you, and this is the Isdall woman case that's been confusing the minds of investigators and armchair detectives for like over 50 years. So the questions are like who was she? Why was she found in a remote valley, and what could her strange and mysterious life tell us about espionage, secrets and possibly even spies? Let's try to crack this case and give it our best shot.

Speaker 2 3:09

This all started back on November 29, 1970, and two hikers discovered a charred body in Isdalyn Valley, just outside of Bergen, norway. This body was badly burned, almost to the point of being unrecognizable. There was no identification, no clear reason why someone would be left in the middle of the valley like that. It seemed like the ultimate mystery Right off the bat. We've got an odd situation. You'd think maybe somebody just got a little too enthusiastic about a campfire. I mean, yeah, at first. So, like at the in the first, the authorities thought well, this might be a suicide, because she was also found to have sleeping pills on her and, like I said, her body was burned beyond recognition. So but the more the investigators looked into this case, the weirder it got. Soon they were looking at a homicide, possibly even tied to espionage, and this is where things start to get really juicy. We're talking multiple identities, a mysterious trunk, cryptic notes that nobody could decode or decipher, and it's just one of those cases that feels like a spy novel but it's all too real.

Speaker 3 4:25

You would think that, with technological advances between now and then, that they might have been able to figure out what happened to her, but the fact that it's still a mystery is crazy.

Speaker 2 4:34

Yeah, yeah. And then well, later on, at the tail end of this case, I'll tell you I have a little bit of an update. But yeah, some technology has come into play and trying to solve this. But let's continue with the story and let's just think about the time period.

Speaker 2 4:51

So imagine you're a detective in 1970. And you're looking at a charred body and you're like I have no clue, I don't have a name, I have no idea who this person is and she has no fingerprints. And then you start to go through her bag and you find a notebook full of cryptic notes and like all of these strange details. And it's like she's playing her own version of Guess who with the police and, spoiler alert, she's definitely winning this game because they have no clue. Yeah, it's so bizarre. So inside of her bag were these strange scribbles. There were like a list of names, some random phone numbers and different locations, and these weren't just any phone numbers. These numbers were all over the place, they were not only just local but they were international. And if that wasn't enough, the hotel staff around the town reported that she had multiple identities and different aliases as she kind of skipped around to different hotels throughout her stay, so like, for instance, she checked in under the name of Frida and there were some others We'll get to that in a little bit, but definitely normal was not on her list of priorities.

Speaker 2 6:12

The plot thickens Right Now. Here's a little bit of a twist that might have you scratch your head. Many suspect that the Isdal woman wasn't just any traveler. Some folks think that her real name might have been Fernella Lorch, which to me is like a name that sounds a little too good to be true. I mean, I personally think it would be a perfect name for a rock band. I am just waiting for somebody to name their band Fernella lorch.

Speaker 3 6:44

I I've been obsessed with this name right I was into franella lorch before they got big.

Speaker 2 6:51

Yeah, right it's like too good to be true. To me it sounds like somebody is is operating under a top secret uh name. It definitely sounds like a spy who's not supposed to be getting caught. But here's the thing though we don't know for sure. This could have been her real name, it could have been an alias. It's just kind of one of these little details that kind of keep you up at night thinking what if?

Speaker 2 7:18

But the strange behavior of this woman continued because she was also possibly traveling under different nationalities. So the hotel staff said that she would change her accent when she talked to people. She was like some kind of a chameleon with a passport. And to top it off, when she was staying in her room Now this is weird. I think she was super careful, like to the point where I think she was like almost too careful. There were no traces of her in any of the rooms that she stayed in. Like she was super clean, like the like a vacuum of cleanliness, and maybe, maybe she was just a very neat, impeccably neat lady, but she was neat in a very suspicious way so this definitely makes me think.

Speaker 3 8:07

Maybe she didn't even go into the rooms because I don't know about you. The second I like crossed the threshold. I explode into like a pile of clothes and my suitcase goes on the bed, and you know what I mean. Like how did she not leave a trace?

Speaker 2 8:22

exactly I, you at least ruffle up some toilet paper. There was like nothing was even touched in these rooms. So this has led a lot of people to believe she was a spy. I mean, it kind of checks out. Let's face it, a mysterious woman with multiple identities pretty much screams spy espionage. But who is she working for? Was she working for the Russians, the Americans, some secret Scandinavian spy ring? There's no concrete answers. But the Cold War was in full swing back in the 1970s. So yeah, I think the spy theory definitely has some legs. There's so much to this story. I kind of wanted to break it down into kind of a timeline for you and then go through some of the weird facts about the case that I haven't talked about already.

Speaker 3 9:11

Oh, I love a timeline.

The Isdal Woman Spy Conspiracy

Speaker 2 9:12

Yeah, I did my research. This woman arrived in Bergen in early November 1970. Over the course of about two weeks she stayed in a few different hotels. She checked in, she checked out under various aliases, and the one thing that she did do was she made a lot of phone calls. Like Becca, she made more phone calls than probably you and I make in a whole year. She was definitely busy on the phone, the phone, yeah, yeah. And then the timeline skips to. She was last seen in the town on november 23rd. And just when, lay dater, what, what did I just say?

Speaker 2 9:57

there lay dater that's gonna, that's gonna go in the quote file. One lay dater, oh lord, okay, let me back up there. So she was last seen, seen on November 23. And then, just one day later, on November 24, boom, her body turns up in the valley and her travel log included cryptic notes, names, numbers, but nothing that directly pointed to any clear explanation for what happened to her. So yeah, let's look at some of these bizarre and suspicious facts. Oh, you'll have to tell me what you think, but to me, I think all of these lend so much credence to a bigger thing that was happening than just I definitely need more information because at this point I'm thinking she's just a freak, like right, she's a clean freak with paranoia a weirdo disturbing the town of bergen with her bora impressions so let's look um at some of these oddities and strange details.

Speaker 2 11:24

First, let's take the body, and the body's burn patterns were definitely very strange. It wasn't just like your average fire accident. The investigators noted that the fire appeared to have been carefully controlled. There was evidence of strangulation, despite her charred remains. Her body was burned almost to not being recognizable, but there was little damage to the surrounding area. It's like somebody wanted to make sure she was like erased and destroyed. It didn't want to set the entire valley on fire. Could this have been a professional job or what it to me, I think, the fact that there was not enough burn residue, like even around the wooded area to me that definitely raised some eyebrows right.

Speaker 3 12:13

I'm wondering if maybe she was burned somewhere else and dumped here, you know, like there would be evidence of such an intense fire that could destroy a human body right, exactly, so next, okay, I'm on the struggle bus, okay, so so that's nuts.

Speaker 2 12:33

Um, oh boy. So that's jesus, let me get a drink of water. I've got nuts on the brain, I guess.

Speaker 1 12:48

I know.

Speaker 2 12:50

Me too. So next, let's talk about her fingerprints, which, you have to remember, this is 1970. And the way that they mainly identified people were by fingerprints, but she did not match any fingerprints in any databases whatever, not a zilch nothing. It definitely was like she just vanished into thin air. So the other thing that was really weird is that she didn't have any labels on her clothes, and you know like today people buy shirts from their favorite stores or designers and they proudly wear their brand names on their sleeves, or, you know, you leave the tags in your clothes, not this woman. She did not have any tags or labels in any piece of clothing that she owned. It was like she was trying to make sure that no one could trace where she came from. I mean, maybe she just hated tags and she hated shopping, but I find this highly suspicious.

Speaker 3 13:50

Yeah, and then it's not like technology at the time would even be able to trace her purchase from whatever store she got it from. So what's the point in taking the tags out? I don't want anybody to know my size.

Speaker 2 14:03

Right, exactly, speaking of clothes, let's talk about this trunk. So when I say a trunk, I mean like a trunk, like a big clothing trunk I'm thinking Harry Potter like the one they wheel onto the train.

Speaker 2 14:19

Yeah, exactly. And this trunk was full of all of her clothes and a lot of personal items. I mean, she did not travel with like a suitcase or like a bag. I mean, this was not a normal traveler by any stretch of the imagination. And not only that, but she was insistent that she be the only one to move this trunk around from hotel to hotel. She would not allow anyone else to touch it. So when the police investigated this trunk, what they found inside were some strange notes. There were again a lot of numbers, a lot of cryptic words, but nothing in these notebooks made any sense whatsoever. It's like she was writing like this little riddle for all of us to try to crack. But you know, here's the thing, no one has been able to crack it. And when I say notebooks, I mean multiple, multiple notebooks. And it wasn't just kind of like a casual hey, this is where I've been traveling kind of journal. These are like coded diaries. And here's the thing, like who is writing in code? Unless you're some kind of like secret spy.

Speaker 3 15:26

It's giving Da Vinci code. It's giving like Sherlock Holmes, like she didn't want anybody else to be able to understand her personal notes to herself. I guess this is very weird. I have to say it's so weird.

Speaker 2 15:40

Yeah, and so then go back to the original investigation. When they found her body and they were trying to figure out you know all every movement throughout the town to where her body was found, that to me like in 1970, and you put on this full helicopter search, I mean, did they think they were going to spot a spy from the air?

Speaker 2 16:19

It seems like a weird cost of resources to use a helicopter for this, like what I think would like dogs would be better, right, exactly one of the things that was also kind of a thing in here to go back to, like all of the names and the aliases, is that we were in the height of the cold war at this time and a lot of people throughout the years thought maybe she was some kind of spy. No one has ever claimed her as a spy for them. But you know, when we talk about the aliases like we, I know we I love saying the name Fresnel and Lorge, but like she, she also checked into like one hotel as Frances Germaine. Yeah, I mean to me, that to me sounds just as suspicious as Fernella Lorch. Like it just seems like a name that's too good to be true. It sticks out a bit.

Speaker 3 17:14

You know how many Fernellas and Frances Germaines do you meet in a lifetime? I mean, she's not exactly subtle, Right.

Speaker 2 17:22

And then she also went by Anna and Ingrid and Frida. This woman was really, really working undercover. So that's why, like a lot of people in, some investigators think that this is kind of as concrete evidence as we're ever going to get that she definitely was a spy or up to some kind of espionage or some clandestine operation. Now here's the last little piece of information that raised my hackles on this whole case, and this is there has there been a disappearance of the autopsy report? Yeah, so after her body was discovered and the initial investigation was conducted, an autopsy was performed. However, the official autopsy has never been made available to the public.

Speaker 2 18:16

We have information that supposedly, like you know, somebody will come forward and say this is what's on the report, but no one has ever actually seen the real autopsy report. Has ever actually seen the real autopsy report? Not only that, but there are some inconsistencies with the medical investigation side of this. When the initial autopsy was done, it was reported that the records were going to indicate that she was actually poisoned to death. But here's the thing no one has ever provided the evidence. We don't know what kind of poison, and remember there was evidence of strangulation also as a precise cause of death was.

Speaker 2 18:58

And not only that, but the suppression of the investigation notes, suppression of the medical evidence, the autopsy report, it really has lended a lot of speculation that there was a clear government cover-up of this, that they did not want certain information or certain individuals to be known, and so it's just this lack of full disclosure that has added a lot of lore into an already kind of lore-ridden case. Not only that, but this is another thing. There were rumors of other similar deaths in the area around the same time, which has fueled other speculation that her death was a connection of something larger, like a whole network of spies or clandestine operation that was being taken down by major world players. Oh my, gosh Fresnella.

Speaker 2 20:15

Yeah, Fresnella, what have you done, girl?

Speaker 3 20:17

What have you been up to, girl?

Speaker 2 20:21

You know, this case is just one of those cases where it just has so many fascinating details. But here's the thing after all of these years, this case still has not gone cold. In fact, a few years ago, in 2016, the Norwegian authorities took another crack at it, and here's what they found using DNA technology, they were able to find a family member of the Isdal woman, and this family member was a man. But they have kept things extremely hush hush. There was never a grand reveal. Nothing dramatic like here's a big breakthrough we've been working on for 50 years. The authorities refused to release any details on this DNA match the relative, who his name is, what kind? Is it paternal or maternal? And it's just like they're keeping everything locked into a vault and it's definitely like an ultimate spy secret. So this is crazy.

Speaker 2 21:25

Yeah. So here's what we here's. At the end of the day, here's what we're left with. This woman's identity remains a mystery. The questions are who was she? Who killed her? Was she an agent in some kind of cold war drama? Was she the victim of a larger criminal operation? Or was she just a very, very strange private woman with a lot of really weird habits? I don't know the answers to any of these, but I can say look. My best piece of advice is, if you're traveling to Norway anytime soon and somebody asks you if you've seen a woman with no name who changes identities faster than a chameleon on espresso, maybe you should just walk the other way.

Speaker 3 22:10

I am minding my own business. Let me tell you Head down don't make eye contact. I didn't see nothing. So this definitely gives me a lot to think about. The thing that is striking me right now is the fact that, for somebody that was seemingly undercover, she made a spectacle of herself. It seemed that a lot of eyes were on her before she passed, and that just makes me think that it was almost like she was throwing somebody off her scent. She was everywhere at once. She had all of these names. You couldn't pin down exactly where she was and when she was there. But she had all of these names. You couldn't pin down exactly where she was and when she was there, but she did definitely leave a path leading up to her death. That strikes me as odd I mean.

Speaker 3 22:56

To me this is right up there with the um, that law of past incident like yeah ever know what truly happened I don't think so, and and here's why I think that her identity must compromise somebody that is still very much an active player out there somewhere, and that's why they're keeping it very close to the vest, you know.

Speaker 2 23:17

So yeah, if you think about it 50 years ago, depending on somebody's age, they may very well still be alive, and maybe, if somebody was connected to it, maybe after their death, this case can finally be solved.

Speaker 3 23:32

Yeah, like once, nobody is compromised with the like, with the implication of the identity. I'm sure that we're going to get an answer for this. I have a feeling they know exactly what happened to her. You know what I mean. Somebody knows Somebody knows, yeah.

Speaker 2 23:44

So hey, if we have a listener that you think you've solved it or you know who killed Fernella Lortz, please let us know. I would love to hear what your thoughts are on her one of two weeks in Bergen.

Speaker 3 24:02

Two weeks in Bergen.

Speaker 2 24:05

All right, yeah, so that's the Isdal woman. Becca, I know you have an interesting case as well, and I did not realize how similar our subjects would be when we just randomly picked our two cases out to talk about.

The Poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko

Speaker 3 24:23

I know we didn't even like have a sesh beforehand where we're like. This is who I'm talking about. We presented our research at the same time and when I read yours and I saw the day that the Isdal woman died, it felt it in my gut, Because my guy died the exact same day, November 23. And all right, I'm just gonna dive right into it. This is the story of Alexander Litvinenko. So there's a million true crime stories out there to choose from, and when I finally got the opportunity to share one, I had to do it to him. Why not follow up an unsolved murder with a murder that was solved by the victim himself? So today we're going to be unraveling the twisted and tragic tale of Alexander Litvinenko.

Speaker 3 25:05

Alexander was born December 4th in 1962 in the USSR. He was recruited for the KGB in 1988 and switched to working for the Bureau's Organized Crime Task Force in Moscow in 1991. I'm saying a lot of letters and numbers, so let me just break this down into something a little more digestible. Alexander started working for the government to take down mobsters and crime lords. So far, he's a real good guy, wouldn't you say?

Speaker 2 25:34

Yeah, he sounds like a good guy.

Speaker 3 25:36

I mean, I think he is, if only because I think you get a good impression of somebody from who their enemies are. But we'll get into that a little bit later. If only these best laid plans carried out the way we wanted them to. The organization he worked for was dismantled when the KGB was implicated in an attempted coup on the Soviet leader at the time. By 1994, after the Soviet Union dismantled, he started working for the Federal Counterintelligence Service and it was during this time with the FSK, which is the abbreviation for the Counterintelligence Service. It's going to change later to FSB, just so you don't get confused when I throw a different cluster of letters at you.

Speaker 3 26:18

But during his time with this Counterintelligence Service he handled a car bombing attack aimed at Boris Berezovsky, and the two would remain buddies. As the years go by. This guy comes back later in a big way. So during the first Chechen war, alexander worked as an intelligence officer and would do so again during the Russian military operations in Chechnya In 1998, everyone had their eyes on him when he publicly accused FSB officials of corruption, extortion and murder. This man whistleblowed against the Russian government. The balls of a legend, let me tell you.

Speaker 2 26:57

Yeah, yeah, he had balls of steel for sure.

Speaker 3 27:01

Yeah, no, kidding, respect to my man, alexander, right now. So that's not even the most interesting part. He claimed he had been ordered to take out his best buddy, boris. Yikes, I know you're not going to find this very shocking, but after his public accusations toward his very important, very powerful employers, he was arrested. Not just arrested, no, no, no. He was arrested and acquitted in 1999. And then they came back around and re-arrested him and sentenced him in absentia to nine years in prison.

Speaker 3 27:36

I had to look up what in absentia means. It basically is a sentence given to a defendant who is not present at their trial. So they didn't even let him defend himself. They're like nope, straight to jail Second time. Do not pass, go. So this is where the public eye is on him. Everyone knows he was screwed over. This is very clearly retaliation for speaking out, but I just want to take a second to clap for our guy here. It takes guts to speak out, especially for something you know is going to endanger not only your life but your family's life. Oh, if they hadn't tried to make him kill his own friend, who knows how far this could have gone. I'm not saying anything bad about alexander, don't get me wrong, but if I were in his shoes I would probably. You know, sorry, bud. Thankfully, in 2000 he was able to flee with his family to lond, where he was granted asylum, and he even became a British citizen in 2006. So, finally, the system helps somebody, right.

Speaker 2 28:32

Right yeah.

Speaker 3 28:33

All right. So enough backstory. I could go on and on about this guy. Honestly, like I'm a huge fan. He had a very long career tackling organized crime in Russia, which is not an easy thing to do.

Speaker 3 28:46

So what happened to Alexander Litvinenko In November of 2006,? He was investigating the assassination of a Russian journalist. I'm going to call her Anna P. I have no business trying to pronounce her beautiful last name. I'm going to butcher it. So Anna P is what we'll go with.

Speaker 3 29:02

I want to take a moment to give him his props. A lot of people would agree with me when I say if it had been me, I would have ridden off quietly into the sunset after my big showdown. That led me to get locked up and run out of the country by some of the most dangerous men in the entire world. He continued fighting the good fight and unfortunately, it cost him everything in the end. So Alexander is still very publicly speaking out against Vladimir Putin. At this time, he was still trying to keep everyone's eyes on the things that were happening in Russia, and he was working with MI6's Secret Service investigating the Russian mafia. The complete opposite of writing off into the sunset.

Speaker 3 29:39

This is where it gets a little confusing, so I'm going to kind of break it down into a timeline November 1st. The first thing I'm going to bring up is the meeting at the Pine Bar in London's Millennium Hotel. He met with two Russians for tea. Their names were Dmitry Kovtun and Andrei Lvov, who was a former KGB officer. Alexander has green tea and he would later report that it wasn't to his liking and he had maybe three sips of the tea Later that day. He also meets with Maria Scarameo, who was an Italian academic that supposedly had documents relating to the death of the journalist I mentioned earlier, anna P. This meeting occurs at a sushi bar and it says by the end of the day he was already feeling the effects of the poison that would take his life. Yeah, 100%. It's just crazy that we have such a detailed and that's like. Another good thing about London is they have the CCTV. You can literally see this man on camera from beginning to end.

Speaker 2 30:44

Wow, yeah, that's fascinating that they have that kind of system. I mean that's a good thing.

The Poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko

Speaker 3 30:51

And you can literally see him meeting with these two guys at the bar. You can see him meeting with Mario at the sushi bar. You can literally see all of this go down. So the fact that it took so long to get actually solved is something that frustrates me. On November 4th, alexander Litvinenko admits himself into the hospital after three days of stomach pain and vomiting. The hospital was Barnett General Hospital and it was located in North London. By the 17th, his condition is worsening and he's transferred to another hospital, the University College Hospital in central London, where he's placed under police guard. This is where things start getting weird. Right. He gets moved closer to the middle of the city and now we have all these officials starting to keep their eyes on him. He had a big target on his back. Imagine being the most wanted man in the world and all of a sudden you find yourself inexplicably sick and surrounded by police. He knew exactly where this was going.

Speaker 2 31:52

You know Right.

Speaker 3 31:53

Wow. So on the 19th of November, the cause of his symptoms has been determined. It is reported that Alexander Litvinenko has been poisoned with thallium, which is a highly toxic rat poison. This ends up changing. On the 20th he's moved to intensive care and pictures are shared with the public showing Alexander's hair loss and rapid weight loss, and it's then that the Scotland Yard's counterterrorism division begins looking into the poisoning. There are allegations that the Russian government was somehow involved, and the Kremlin says very publicly they had nothing to do with this. This was not us. We don't know what's wrong with your guy. We left him alone, right? That's what they're saying.

Speaker 2 32:38

Yeah, of course.

Speaker 3 32:40

On the 22nd, his condition worsens. He has a heart attack overnight and Russian counterintelligence continues to deny responsibility. On the 23rd, Alexander Litvinenko finally succumbs to the effects of poisoning and dies in intensive care. Scotland Yard begins investigating this case as an unexplained death. I want to check in with you, Angie, and see where your head's at. I feel like all the players in the game are on display and I just want to see what your gut reaction is. Who killed Alexander Litvinenko?

Speaker 2 33:10

I mean, I'm just like I keep just thinking about this poor man, how he is really trying to do some good in the world, and just everything. I just feel like when wanting to tell everyone you know you put some respect on his name when you speak it. Yes, I think the Russians had to have had something to do with this. That's, that's my gut instinct at this point in time Of course, like it's not rocket science, right?

Speaker 3 33:36

This is a bad spy movie that doesn't even have the decency to let the good guy win. It's a huge bummer. Honestly, like how good can a person be? He literally like no matter what they threw at him, he just kept fighting him, but in the end I mean, they got him on november 4th. There's this quote that comes out after he's been found dead that I wanted to share with you. So this is from alexander himself. He released several statements when his death became final.

Speaker 3 34:04

The bastards got me, but they won't get everybody that is a hell of a statement so, in the ultimate turn of events, alexander litvinenko's close friend, once again brings the attention of the entire world onto our boy alexander. This friend whose name was also alex, by the way reads out a statement read made by litvinenko just before his death, the ultimate last word. In this statement, litvinenko blames none other than vladimir putin for his death, very publicly, for the entire world to see this.

Speaker 2 34:38

The man that killed me, go get him right yeah, like you know, said it with his whole chest to his whole chest.

Speaker 3 34:48

The bastards got me, they won't get everybody.

Speaker 2 34:51

And that's you know, that's. You know Vladimir Putin is quite famous for. You know you don't say anything bad about Vlad. You know he takes, takes that stuff seriously. So even the guy that that was willing to read that statement and just put Vlad on blast I mean, even that, I think, took a lot of balls.

Speaker 3 35:12

Yes, 100%. You're basically handing your friend a loaded gun. Like you, better fire this into the crown.

Speaker 2 35:19

Yeah, because Putin very much, you know. Like the saying I'm just the messenger, don't kill the messenger. Like Putin literally will kill the messenger too.

Speaker 3 35:28

Yeah, the messenger, the people that made the paper that you wrote the message on, like everybody. I mean allegedly Vladdy, allegedly.

Speaker 2 35:36

Allegedly yeah, we don't need him coming after us.

Speaker 3 35:39

On November 24,. There's a few other things that happened November 24th. There's a few other things that happened. Venenko's own father speaks out to the press dropping another nugget of information. He says that his son told him it was a tiny little nuclear bomb that killed him, and it is also the day that health experts that worked on the case came out publicly and say they believe it wasn't just rat poison used, but that he was also deliberately poisoned using radioactive matter shut up right. So after november 24, things pop off. Police find traces of radioactive materials at the sushi bar and the hotel where alexander carried out his meetings on november 1st, before he even started to feel sick. They also find traces in his North London home and this leads an inquest into his death being opened up and adjourned at London Court. So they literally open it up. Adjourn it Like this is too complicated. We need more information.

Speaker 2 36:38

Wow, okay, radioactive material got it like uh okay, radioactive material got it. I guess I could just I.

Speaker 3 36:50

I just have them pictured as like opening up a file, just reading a few lines closing it and like nope, yeah, I'm gonna wait for a long weekend to look at this one yeah, they just, yeah, just kind of slide it underneath, you know like a desk blotter, you know like it's not even what file.

Speaker 2 37:04

I don't even know what you're talking about.

Speaker 3 37:06

Right December 1st, Mario Scaramea and Litvinenko's wife both test positive for an alpha particle emitting substance.

Speaker 2 37:17

It's also on the list, but it sounds serious.

Speaker 3 37:20

Yes, it sounds very serious. Nine British officers travel to Moscow with the intent to investigate the case, but the Russian prosecutors refuse to release any suspects or allow them to be arrested in their homeland. This is where they say that it's part of the Russian constitution that a Russian citizen can't be handed over against their will. They have kind of immunity in their homeland, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2 37:50

That's interesting.

Speaker 3 37:51

As crazy as it sounds, they don't start investigating this case as a murder until December 6th. Wow, so he dies November 23rd, december 6th, they decide. You know, I think somebody killed this man.

Speaker 1 38:03

They decide, you know, I think somebody killed this man Right.

Speaker 2 38:08

Took him that long to figure that one out.

Speaker 3 38:14

This is why.

Speaker 2 38:16

Sherlock Holmes had so much difficulty with Scotland Yard. Yeah, exactly, they're like, you know what? Like I had it figured out. He had it figured out. Man, like I had a feeling. Yeah, like I had it figured out, like when he drank the green tea, like and it tasted weird. This doesn't taste good. I'm going to have three sips. This is probably a murder. Yeah, yeah, that screams murder to me.

Speaker 3 38:44

But what do I know well, on december 7th, russia decides to come out and say that they're investigating the attempted murder of dimitri kovtun, the contact mr letvinenko met at the pine bar because he had traces of the alpha emitting particle on him as well. So they're saying dimitri Kovtun they tried to get him too. It couldn't have been us because our guy got got too Like he's sick. He's not dying, but he is sick. It also says that seven bar staff that were working at the Pine Bar at the time of Alexander and Dimitri being there were testing positive for low levels of polonium 210. So this is the first time that the alpha emitting particle testing positive for low levels of polonium-210. So this is the first time that the alpha emitting particle gets a name and it's polonium-210, which I will go into later. It's pretty much All right. So the 7th is also the day that they bury Alexander Litvinenko.

Speaker 3 39:46

Alexander Litvinenko, and on the 9th, german police say they found indications of radiation in two properties apparently used by Mr Kovtun the home of his ex-wife and her mother's home. So we're starting to see evidence of this radiation in more and more places and it's getting easier and easier to see who was around it the most Like, who is it following home? It followed Alexander home. It followed Dimit following home. It followed Alexander home. It followed Dimitri home. It did not follow the seven people that worked at the bar home. They just got sick from it.

Speaker 3 40:11

So we're starting to see who maybe actually handled Polonium 210. And it's pretty damning for everyone involved. When we get to January of 2007, a former spy named Yuri Shivets claims Mr Litvinenko was murdered because of information he held on a powerful group of people and that he was poisoned after a dossier containing damaging information was leaked to a high-ranking Moscow figure. He's essentially telling us that Litvinenko was double-crossed and it killed him. So his name gets released to the Russian government. Not too long after that he ends up dead. It's almost like they nailed down his location and they're like all right, send the dogs out, let's get them.

Speaker 2 40:58

Wow, in a big way too.

The Polonium-210 Assassination Betrayal

Speaker 3 41:00

Yeah, and this is also when BBC One puts out a program reporting that there may have been other attempts to poison Alexander, the first attempt being two weeks before at the same sushi restaurant where he met Mr Skirmea, and it's discovered that Mr Lepmanenko actually met Lugovic and Kovtun at that sushi bar for the first time on October 16th. They're thinking this may have been the first attempt on his life. Mr Lugovie and Mr Kovtun are questioned by British police over the poisoning of Mr Litmanenko and both deny being suspects in the case. They tell a Russian TV station that the UK press reports describing them as subjects were a lie. Russia continues to deny any involvement in the death and Scotland Yard hands a file on the investigation to the Crown Prosecution Service. So Scotland Yard is escalating the case. Russia is still denying any involvement and more and more sick people are turning up. Right by February of 2007, his best buddy, boris Berezovsky, publicly speaks out about his longtime friends poisoning, saying Andrei Ligovic was responsible for the death.

Speaker 3 42:13

He says Mr Litvinenko told him just before he died that were affected by the polonium-210 and facing possible health risk reaches 15. So over 15 people were harmed in this single solitary assassination just by being in proximity to the poison. So these are people that didn't touch it, they didn't sniff at it, they were just in the same room as it 15 people. So not only are 15 people sick, but Russia and the UK are on the verge of dissolving all previous alliances. This is becoming world changing. We're to the point where the UK is telling Russia we will not be friends anymore if you do not turn these people over. We know they did this. You need to release them. You know this could start the Cold War anew. This is a very serious thing.

Speaker 2 43:06

Yeah, and just the fact that you know they didn't care about the collateral damage, Like they just wanted to take him out so bad. It didn't matter that they were harming innocent citizens.

Speaker 3 43:19

You know I mean. This happened in 2007. This should have been considered and I'm very scared to say this word a Schmerism attack, in my opinion, just because of the number of people affected, the fact that this is somebody that defected from Russia, he's been attacked and killed by Russia on foreign soil, how is this not a Schmerism case? You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 43:42

Right, right, exactly. I know we're so afraid to say that word, but yeah no, youtube is already punishing us. I'm terrified I know we can't. We found out two things that are not algorithm friendly, all right so let's see here, may 31st.

Speaker 3 44:03

So at a news conference in moscow, mr lugovi touches on the case, saying that mr litvinenko was not his enemy and that he had nothing against him. He also claims that mr litvinenko was a british spy that tried to recruit him to provide compromise, compromising information. On president poopin poopin, oh no. On President Poopin Poopin. Oh no, president Pootin. I don't know what he thought he was doing there.

Speaker 2 44:40

Pop off queen, like no, it wasn't me, it was him.

Speaker 3 44:53

I mean, I like the new moniker I mean if, president, I'm not talking about putin, I'm talking about poopin. Poopin's not his name, right, you can't come for me. So on july 5th, russia officially refuses a uk extradition request for mr lagovi, insisting the russian constitution does not allow for extradition of its citizens. They've come right out to say it. We will not be cooperating with your investigation. Sorry, ballsy Russia. So July 16th, the British government announces it is to expel four diplomats from the Russian embassy in London after Moscow refused to extradite Mr Lugovic. This is where the most infuriating back and forth game starts. This is clearly the UK saying give us information or forget. Being allies, they aren't backing down. But on July 19, russia announces it's going to expel four British embassy staff, mirroring the UK's decision to expel their staff from the Russian embassy in London. Uno reverse, I guess you do this to me, I do this to you. What else you got?

Speaker 2 46:09

Yeah, it's like you know, I'm gonna take my toys and go home too. It gets crazy.

Speaker 3 46:16

You fire me, I fire you. So oh, I do want to say that the whole expelling of the staff happens in 2007. We are jumping to June 2013 with this next part, so this is literally six years later. An inquest into Mr Litvinenko's death is delayed as the coroner decides a public inquiry would be preferable so they could hear some evidence in secret. Right In July, the UK government ministers rule out a public inquiry into Mr Lentbenenko's desk, saying an inquest would be ineffective for the investigation into his death. So it takes them a whole month to say actually no, let's not do it publicly, let's do it privately by January of 2014,.

Speaker 3 47:01

Marina Lentbenenko is tired of this taking so long, so she takes the case of her husband's death to the high court to force the UK government to hold a public inquiry. So where is this case now? Clearly, justice isn't swift. This case gets dragged on for years and it's so frustrating because we know who did it, we know how they did it, we can literally trace their footprints on the way to commit the crime, because they use that goddamn radioactive poison and because the higher ups on both sides, like we could see where it starts to fall apart. The good guys have to tiptoe around red tape, and the bad guys are protected by the rules and regulations put in place to protect the good guys.

Speaker 1 47:44

So what is the court's decision?

Speaker 3 47:46

In 2016, after the British's inquiry into Litvinenko's death, it's concluded that the FSB successor to the KGB carried out the operation to kill Alexander Litvinenko, approved by Mr Nikolai Petroshev, head of the FSB, and also by President Putin himself. There we go Finally we know who did it and who the bad guys are, even though there is nothing we can do about it.

Speaker 2 48:11

That is crazy. That is just insane that 10 years Not only it took yeah, 10 years for them to get any concrete answers or have somebody truly responsible for the guy's death. Just on a side note here, what I just realized is that not only did our two people die on the same day, but that both cases had major news in 2016.

Speaker 3 48:45

Oh, you're right 2016.

Speaker 2 48:47

This is so crazy. You know, out of all the cases we both pick spy-laden I mean, yours is clearly you know. We know who the players are and what they did. We think Fernella was a spy, but it's just so weird how we picked two cases that were in the same type of subject. They died on the same day and in 2016,. They both had these major updates in the case.

Speaker 3 49:14

And it definitely shows how similar the two of us are when it comes to, like stories that we latch on to and we've carried with us. Like clearly, this is very frustrating and it's there's a bit of a mystery and you know, like we just want answers and I think that's why it stuck with us so long is because we want the answers and we want the bad guys to be punished and we want the full story and that's not too much to ask for no, no, it's not.

Speaker 2 49:36

It's not too much to ask for. I am curious. I want to know more information about the polonium 210. That to me is just completely crazy that they would use something like that. I don't even know what an alpha particle is, but yeah.

Speaker 3 49:53

I knew that you would ask that, so I went to harvardedu and I got some answers for you.

Speaker 2 50:02

Oh, I was going to just say this is why I love you so much because you knew exactly the questions that I was gonna ask and you came prepared with the information.

Speaker 3 50:12

So hats off to you, becca, hell yeah like, like I said, like this case has been on my mind for so long, and when I read polonium 210 like I had known that was the the poison I didn't know exactly what it was. I knew it was radioactive, so I did a little digging. I'm going to tell you how crazy of a murder weapon this was and why it ultimately led to this case being solved before there was a murder to solve. Polonium 2.10 is manufactured inside of nuclear reactors to reduce the static buildup and components of nuclear reactors. I don't know exactly what that means, but they say that it emits alpha particles instead of gamma rays, which is harder to detect while traveling, and that's what made it so easy to smuggle.

Speaker 3 51:01

When used as a poison, overkill is too kind of a word to describe its effects. Not only is it dangerous to inhale, inject or ingest, it is torturously slow in the killing process. Alexander was sick for weeks before he died. He had time to get his affairs in order, settle it and point the finger at Vladimir Putin himself. They were able to trace every single person that had their hands on Polonium-210 just based off of where it was manufactured from. It had a fingerprint for exactly where it came from and they knew who touched it, who was around it, who breathed the air that it was. It just kind of isolated the crime scene to the point where we're like there's no way, it wasn't you guys. I mean, come on, you've gone nuclear.

Speaker 2 51:47

This is kind of like a dumb method to kill someone, Something that is so traceable, has its own signature, its own fingerprints, Like I would. I would think Russia would be a little bit better at murder, but this was to me really dumb.

Speaker 3 52:02

Just the fact that it was such overkill. I think it points to the fact that they jailed him twice to try to silence him. He got out and continued to fight against them when most people would have given up. They wanted to make sure they got him and they wanted to make sure they made an example of him. At the end of the day, that's all it was. This guy was made an example of in the eyes of his enemies. He betrayed his country when he defected and, more than that, he spoke out and let the world know what was going on behind closed doors, and it's almost the perfect revenge to get the last word in before you go A big middle finger to the assholes who silenced him. And I think he is just legendary. I will never forget this man, and I hope you guys don't either.

Speaker 2 52:42

Yeah, I mean, you know he literally gave his life trying to do the right thing and I will always respect somebody who stands up for things that are wrong.

Speaker 3 52:56

And hats off to his wife for getting on the British government being like please just solve this case. Enough of the back and forth. Like my husband is dead, I got sick. Everybody got sick. We know who did it. We need to publicly solve this now.

Speaker 2 53:10

Well, I mean of course a woman is going to step up and say can the menfolk quit fighting and just solve my husband's murder.

Speaker 3 53:19

Like, of course, enough with the pissing contest. Yeah, yeah, exactly Right. How do we want to close this out, angie, all right.

Speaker 2 53:27

So those are our two cases for today and we would love to know your thoughts on the Isdal woman and this giant of a man, Alexander Letvinenko. Drop us an email or, you know, a comment to let us know your thoughts on these two cases. I've just really enjoyed this episode. I love talking about true crime and the stories that kind of capture our attention.

Speaker 3 53:57

The Black Curtain Club has new episodes out every Monday. We're available wherever you get podcasts. Don't forget to rate and subscribe and leave a comment down below, and we look forward to tickling your imagination with our next episode.

Speaker 2 54:11

Yes, absolutely. So. Yes, we definitely want to hear from you and let us know how we're doing in the podcast. I mean, we're new to this. We've been trying out new equipment and new software, and so let us know how you think we're progressing. We have lots more to share in the future and we hope we can get all four of us together and just do kind of like a girl lap session, lap session with the girls.

Speaker 3 54:39

Don't want to miss it. A girl for every lap. That's what we decree. No lap is cold no lap left behind, lap it up.

Speaker 2 55:10

Oh, come, get your slop piggies, we have some really fun topics coming up in the next few weeks, so please continue to join us and follow us for this crazy adventure that we're on. Bye, bye.