Beyond the Green Bibs
Cattle veterinarian, mom, and farmer Anne chats with other women in the large animal medicine field to inspire and entertain listeners.
Beyond the Green Bibs
Ep 08 Chat with Dr. Callie Garoutte
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Dr. Anne visits with Dr. Callie from Iowa who has her own practice and is doing amazing things!
Dr. Callie can be reached at: calliegaroutte@gmail.com
Hi and welcome to Beyond the Green Bibs. I am Annie, a cattle vet, farmer, mom of two boys, and business owner with passions involving agriculture and personal finance. I am on a mission to inspire and encourage women who want to be involved in large animal medicine and also be a mom and so much more. I believe we as women can create a community to provide support to other women as we build a life filled with gratitude and purpose. So whether you are in the vet truck on your way to a farm call, a mom running the kids to school, a gal that loves animal agriculture, or heck, all of the above. Thanks for joining me and let's roll on with today's conversation.
SPEAKER_01Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Beyond the Green Bibs. I'm Annie, your host. Today I'm gonna have another interview.
SPEAKER_02But before we get into that, I had someone ask about an update as to what's happening at the farm and what's going on with all of the calves from this year. So happy to report that everyone at the farm is doing well. The calves are out on pasture all with their moms, except for the one triplet, who I've been bucket feeding milk, number six, who I am fondly calling Buddy.
SPEAKER_00And he has been getting milk for, well, he's now three months old, and I've been gradually weaning him off of milk, and he is getting his last feeding today, and he will be fully graduated as a weaned calf, and then he will just get hay and a little bit of a starter pellet mix to get some minerals and whatnot uh in him to help him keep growing.
SPEAKER_02We are in the midst of hay season on the farm, and it has been a challenging hay season for us this year. We've had a lot of rain, and it more or less is coming down in buckets and not really sprinkles for us. So we've had a couple different instances where we had almost three inches of rain in a very short period of time. One of our hay fields was actually underwater for a little bit and started to pull the windrows of hay that we cut to drain and make this like big pile of hay that's not going to dry or cure, so for us to bale. So that part was ruined, and then as the water just sat there in the field, it started to actually rot the hay. So one large hay field is 100% gone that we cannot harvest or utilize it for first cutting hay for the cows. So that is more than disappointing. It is quite frustrating, but Mother Nature does what she does, and we just try to do the best we can with following along with the weather reports and hoping that we have a little stretch of dry weather and warm weather to to cure the hay. And we had several fields that were very good and and gave us a really nice yield. But when you get a nice big field that should have been a good amount of hay for winter, uh just completely destroyed. That's that's upsetting. So we are still working along. Normally we would be just about finished with first cutting hay at this time, but we're probably about two-thirds of the way done, not including that field that we lost, but we've still got a few more fields to go, and um, we're gonna check with some folks, neighbors that have some hay fields that perhaps we could buy bales of hay or buy the bales that we harvest of hay off of a section of their land to get some more hay for the cattle for the winter. So that is the update on the farm. Um, yes, the cattle are are doing well. The beef that will be butchered this fall are going well. Right now, it's kind of just uh smooth sailing with them. And let's go ahead and get into our interview. So the interview I have for today is with Dr. Callie, and she is from Iowa, and she's got her own practice, and she was a hoot to chat with. And one of the things that she said, I'm gonna try to come with some highlights or some one-liners to remember the interviews by, or just um provide some motivation or inspiration for you folks, is she said, don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. And that is something that I definitely, definitely agree with. I'm not a real big person, and I definitely have been told in the past when I was younger that I would not be somebody to work on cows because I'm too small, I'm too short, I'm a girl, you name it. And so um I totally agree with her that don't let them tell you that you can't do it. Um, we we as women, we figure it out, we find smarter ways to do it. Um another thing I don't think she mentioned in this interview, but a lot of us women will say it while we're working, um, as the large animal veterinarians, as we're smaller framed people than than the men that work in this field, and we have shorter arms and whatever the list may be of things that may be a challenge for us. But one of the lines that I've heard many women say, and I've definitely said it, we work smarter, not harder. So um I had a really good time chatting with Dr. Callie, and let's go ahead and get into this interview.
SPEAKER_03I am at the AABP conference, which is the American Association of Bovine Practitioners. So it's all cattle vets here. Woohoo! And we're in Omaha, Nebraska, beautiful city to visit.
SPEAKER_02And today I am talking to Dr. Callie, and we're gonna just share our story. And I I've already told her a little bit before we started, and she has a wonderful story to share. And so I've got a few questions, and the spotlight is yours. All right, Callie. So to start off, can you tell me a little bit about like where you're from, what school you went to, and then what you're up to currently?
SPEAKER_04Yep, I am from Adale, Iowa, which is central Iowa, and I've actually lived in the same township since I was six, not county, township. And so I went to med school at Iowa State University because it's within driving distance from where I live. Um I originally started as an animal science major at Iowa State as well. My husband's a road crop and a cattle farmer. We have 200 metamonic cows and a thousand acres of road crop. So I always tell people I picked my husband before I picked my career. So kind of had to work around him a little bit if I wanted to be a veterinarian. So yeah, I didn't go to that school right away. Actually, I worked in a little bit in commercial pigs, and then also I worked for cardio as a beef nutritionist. And when they came out with the the guidance of having a BCPR for B grade meds, I decided there wasn't a lot of large animal veterinarians that understood what that was gonna mean. And so I wrote my personal statement and went to med school. Awesome.
SPEAKER_02And then what are you doing currently? Oh yeah, sorry. Yep, then you're good.
SPEAKER_04Yep, so I worked as a mixed animal practitioner like first five years out, and like very mixed. So I did rescue and a surgery, like or surgery and a rescue, and then just the day-to-day stuff at a mixed animal rural practice, and with our cattle that we had at home, like it just wasn't working anymore. Um, so I decided to go off on my own and I started my own practice in 2022, um, same township, so mind you, so very close to my old practice. Um, and I still had that rescue, and so for a little while I had that to kind of help build the practice revenue-wise, but then eventually I just it wasn't where my passion lies by any means. I'm just really good at surgery, not to be arrogant, just that's one thing I do well. And I just was kind of over being in small animals, so I just retired that side of my life and just do 100% large.
SPEAKER_02Okay, that's awesome. So, your practice is you do you have um brick and mortar building? Or do you operate out of your truck?
SPEAKER_04Do you have anybody working with you or for you? Yep, I'm uh 100% mobile currently. I do one day a week. I offer a barn cat spay neuter clinic just to help with population control. I'm not sure they like it that I will neuter a cat on the farm, but I obviously won't spay a cat on the farm. But um, so yeah, 100% pretty much 100% mobile, except for that. And it is just me as a veterinarian, and then I have had various help over the years. I mean, it just I try to keep a technician-like person around. They're almost never a registered veterinary technician, but like right now, I have a girl working for me that um applied to vet school, didn't get in, and so she's working kind of that gap here right now. So great opportunity for her, and it's also great for me because she cares.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. So that's awesome. All right, so we've already talked a little bit about your journey, but I want to go back in time when you were in vet school. Did you, I mean, did you have a picture of like after graduation, I am going to be mixed, I'm going to eventually own my own practice and do one hour at large. What did you think you were gonna be doing?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I actually I don't know why the other day I took samples to the lab, Iowa State University, and the video, and I like with you know, first day of class was starting, like all the cloud you know, kids were coming back, and I ended up freaking, and you don't know me well enough to know that I'm not a crier, I don't get emotional about anything, and I'm in my truck crying because I'm like remembering what it was like, you know, to my first you finally get into vet school and you walk in on your first day and you feel so accomplished, and you don't realize how much more there is to accomplish just to get through it all. But um, my goal that day would have been to be a large animal practitioner and be my own veterinary, like my own boss. My dad was self-employed, has been self-employed. I never really want to work for anyone else, but sometimes you just have to.
SPEAKER_02Well, and it has turned out, you know, pretty much just as you thought, which is cool because so many other, you know, people their their plans start as one thing, and then opportunities land in their lab, challenges happen, and they change that path while still being a large animal vet. Um, that's cool that yours has been a kind of a the straight and narrow path.
SPEAKER_04And you and you've followed it true. That's awesome. I'm not sure I'd call it a straight narrow path. It just kind of I don't say no to opportunities, I just I look at them and I as things make sense. I know is I know what I want to do and what I who I am, I guess. I know what fits my life. So that's awesome.
SPEAKER_02That's perfect. That's perfect answer. So thinking of a moment, I'm looking for a moment of something that you are most proud of from being a vet so far. And this is your time to shine. We're all very humble people, but like this is your badass moment. Like, when, you know, when did you think, you know, I am I am doing the thing? I am, you know, what makes you most proud?
SPEAKER_04I honestly like I I guess a lot of it, I I I I uh yeah, I guess I've never been asked this question necessarily, but now, so I'm eight years out, I graduated in 17. I probably didn't say that, but um yeah, do I talk to people now and they're like, wow, you did that, right? You went to that school, so I didn't include probably because now that she's in college, I don't think about it, that you know, I had my daughter, my freshman year of undergrad, so she was eight when I went to that school, you know, and 12 when I graduated. And so looking back and thinking, like, that honestly is probably my best accomplishment. Like, I mean, everything else is great too, but like if there's one thing my daughter knows is that like there's really nothing that can hold you back. Like, now she doesn't want to be a veterinarian because she got to go through veterinary school with me and undergrad, and you know, being a first-year associate and kind of being the one that takes all the the grunt work, you know, and I'm sure she'll never be a veterinarian. I mean, she's in school to be an an animation person, so I'm pretty sure she's not gonna be a veterinarian, and that's okay. They don't all have to take after you, but that I will say that is my proudest moment is just I said I wanted to be a veterinarian, and it might have taken me a little longer, but I did it, and it's just that is a huge accomplishment. And that was kind of like that reality the other day when I was at school. It's like, wow, you know, you forget.
SPEAKER_02Well, it's just like okay, we you know, you go through the process of working so hard through vet school and getting this class done and passing that test and then passing boards, and you just keep going, and all the the things that have happened, yeah, they just kind of oh, I did that, okay. Next.
SPEAKER_04Well, yeah, it's definitely I thought about this the other day. You get to a point in your life, like especially as when you're it doesn't matter if you want to be a veterinarian or anything professionalized, anything that requires the steps that does to be a veterinarian is you just you're constantly always trying to achieve the next thing, and then you get into practice and you're learning, and then you start kind of hitting that where I'm where you're kind of you're going in practice, and you're kind of like, well, now what? You know, like what do I do now? So and maybe I start a podcast. Maybe that's what not to me, is that where you're at? Could be, could be, yeah. Yeah, so yeah. Other than that, yeah, it'd be I I have an odds skill set, you know, being a large animal veterinary, but then also I'm I I've spent all my time in vet school working for an export semen facility. We exported wool semen and doing surgery on small animals. That was my mentor, that's what he did. Was he ran the all the export blood testing, wrote all the export papers for wool semen, and then he did surgery on dogs and cats, and so that is like all I spent my time in vet school doing.
SPEAKER_02So I just have a super odd skill set, a unique set, and very valuable, yeah, very valuable. And I think you're absolutely right. You should be incredibly proud of yourself. Um, I mean, you made it through vet school with a child, and veterinary medicine is not your first career, essentially. I mean, you still were agriculture based, but like that is badass. So yeah, kudos to you, Lady. So if we're gonna turn back the clock, what is one thing that you would change if for yourself if you went back in time?
SPEAKER_04Oh uh, this one, I don't know if this 100% is the best option, but I would have done like HOVID differently for sure. So um I 100% on my core amount of workaholic. I love to work. I I work to live not because I have to, because I love it. I just love working. I've been like that since I was 14. Like I was like at first job, like I love working. I worked a full-time job in high school. Like it just I've always worked. I like work, I feel good working, you know. But during COVID, because of the challenges, I think I was I was telling you earlier where we went from a seven-doctor practice to four and a half, like immediately because of a lot of things going on. I was working a hundred plus hours on top of my only child sitting at home while my husband was at work, and I yeah, I would not have done that. I just gave my whole life to that practice and they didn't deserve it. Like I didn't deserve the lack of like my daughter not having her mom, and they were fine with her coming. I mean, she was a 14-year-old, so it's not like she was that hard to deal with, but you know, I was just too busy at the practice to have her there. Too much, there was so much going on. COVID was crazy. But I guess that was a unique situation, but like the flip side of that is just like it's okay to go home and have boundaries, and that's not something that I traditionally had. That's something I learned a lot having my own practice and a lot of growth there of it's okay to say no and have boundaries, and you're not a bad veterinarian because you don't show up at seven o'clock in the morning and then work till seven o'clock at night and then take emergency call all night long because somebody at home is usually suffering.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03No, I think you nailed that one.
SPEAKER_02That was that's a huge point that we need to talk about more. It's starting to become a little bit more of a popular conversation, but it just needs to be continually emphasized. Okay, so what were some of the biggest challenges that you faced coming out of school as a woman in large animal medicine? And then also you were already a mom. So can we think of a challenge or two that that you faced?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so I just can't tell people I've been involved in like leadership and um woman's development uh through corporate America and all through vet school and all of that. So I don't tend to have a lot of like woman challenges. I know that sounds weird the way I just said that. Looking back, it's weird the way I said it. But um I because of working with farmers as long as I have, and I have a very apparently I've been told confident like demeanor, I just didn't struggle a lot with men in practice. Like all the um guys that in our practice, when I first came out into practice that were very difficult and gave women a hard time, those were the ones I got stuck with because I just don't it's not something I put up with very much with. I just I don't know how much I can say bad words, but I was told that I get the asshole clients because I'm an asshole back. So I you know, whatever. It worked great. I love them, they don't bother me. But um, so that part I didn't struggle with. I never really, you know, if a guy said to me, I mean, I had people say things to me, right? Like, oh well, are you gonna be able to get that calf? Like, well, you called me, so like feel free to do it yourself if you prefer. Right. And they're like, oh well, no, no, no, you know. So usually if you met them where they kind of brought it and done it in a child, that got I quickly became the person they wanted on the farm calls then because I was capable and um and was confident and I didn't second guess myself. I think as women in general, we tend to think we have to be perfect and we hold ourselves to some standard that doesn't exist, and it's our own standard that we make up.
SPEAKER_02Yep, yep, I think you're 100% right.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so I there's that, and then the mom side of it was probably the hardest for me because I go back to that workaholic thing. Like I had a lot to prove. Um being a mom, I got pregnant at 18. My husband and I were not married, we were dating, it wasn't expected. Um, obviously, everyone told us we were gonna fail in life, whether that be we had failed her, we would fail in marriage, we would fail in whatever. Um, so for lack of a better word, I was very bitter towards people and that I had to prove them wrong. And so then it was like, so you got through med school and you graduated, but now it's like, well, now I have a successful career and look at me now. And so I think at times I didn't do a very good job time managing that. And so right out of college, I thought I still had like the chip on my shoulder that I needed to prove myself that I was worthwhile, like it wasn't enough that the state of Iowa and Navy agreed that I was good enough, you know.
SPEAKER_02But once again, women holding ourselves to some standard that doesn't exist, so right, and that yeah, that standard, I mean, yeah, we all make it for ourselves, and then then we wonder why we're so frustrated because we're not meeting that set standard, and it needs to just be turned off.
SPEAKER_04Yes, yeah, and I I've just seen a lot of you know, since then, you know, women come in into practice. Obviously, veterinary medicine is heavily women, and um I just see them come out and they some of them don't care to learn, which is frustrating, but the ones that do care to learn, they do great. And the ones that really take the time and ask questions and um really develop their skills and like genuinely be curious, they do just fine. Because there was a talk earlier, the lady was talking about like if you just have a good attitude about things, like it's really makes all the difference.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's gonna put you so much further. If you just have a positive attitude and you're open, yeah. You know, open to learn, open to try things, which that's another thing that us women we have that standard we're trying to meet, and we you know, I don't want to try this procedure because what if I fail? And well, if the animal needs the procedure, yeah, you're gonna fail the animal if you don't try.
SPEAKER_04Well, then you're gonna fail. That's the other thing that frustrated me in vet school. At like this like thought process that you're gonna fix everything, you're not. You can't.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_02Yep, agreed. So when you were getting started in veterinary medicine, you know, you've graduated, your daughter was a little older than some of the folks I've talked to. But do you have a story or two to share? Like if she came in the truck with you, um, was at the clinic and experienced something. Um The spotlights are to share some kind any kind of story that that you'd like.
SPEAKER_04Got one. Well, I have plenty. Um, so I mean we farm, right? So we've been around that even before I went to med school. And actually, when I was in pigs, she was little, little, like she was five, and I used to have to go count pig barns in uh, you know, like on a Saturday, and you know, you'd have to euthanize baby pigs, and I've got my five-year-old with me running around in a pig barn. And so she actually learned really early on that like what agriculture was about and why things sometimes had to be euthanized. I think the worst thing for me once was one of our kittens. I don't even remember what was wrong with it, but she was like holding it, you know, and I was in vet school, and she's like, I'm like, honey, it's just not gonna make it. She's because I thought you were going to school to fix this, you know, and why can't you save it? And we've done that with our dogs and you know, everything. Unfortunately, she has a super realistic expectation of when time is to the time, if you will, or that I can't fix them all. But that that one got me when she held that cat, like, I thought you were learning how to fix this. I'm like, I I am right. I can't we can't fix them all until we fix them all, but yeah, she's she spent a lot of time on a farm, apparently. She went a little bit with me in my truck, um, just liability-wise, it was a lot, but yeah, I sometimes you know, she was a teenager for most of my first couple of years, you know, 13, you know, she's 12 when I got out of med school. If nobody has a teenage daughter listening to this yet, good luck. I have gray hair for a reason, even as young as I am.
SPEAKER_02Okay, all right. So if you don't mind sharing, because I will be talking in other episodes about personal finance, that's one of my passions. Um, have finances affected your path to where you are currently? And if so, if you don't mind sharing how.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so I'm really fortunate, right? So we have the farm, and so I've been absolutely blessed in the fact that I don't have a mortgage, right? We live on the farm. So if it hadn't been for my husband, there's no way that I think I could have made it in practice, to be honest. When I think about it, my friend that you met earlier, she was a single woman coming out of vet school after getting a master's and a four-year degree and a tech degree because she was really committed to wanting to go to vet school. And so she's graduating with $300 and some thousand dollars of debt. She takes a job for I think $75,000 in rural America, where she's got to buy health insurance because she works for a private practice and they can't provide that. She buys a house instead of renting one because ultimately even the mortgage was cheaper than rent, and at least you have some equity when you leave, right? And then she's drove the same, you know, POS car, so now she needs a new one because she's the vet in town and she should at least look like maybe, you know, she's got more than ramen noodles in her cabinet, you know, but and a reliable vehicle. Yes, and a reliable vehicle. She had the clinic vehicle, you know, she had a clinic vehicle for the clinic stuff, but like I uh talking to her, I don't know how she did it. I mean, I was fortunate I didn't have the mortgage, right? And so I could, and I didn't I had that second partner, and so I guess always my personal finance advice is to marry an engineer, but um not a farmer for sure. But you know, we had that cushion, I guess I should say we still struggle with personal finances, and I tell people all the time like the reason rural America burns out is you take these kids and they're less than equipped, and you put them in a rural environment where they don't know anybody, and you do all the things I just said, you financially stress them out, and they're gonna leave practice within, if not within a couple years, for sure within four years. And all of our veterinary payment plan like support is geared towards the first couple years out, and it's it's like those guys, they take it and they burn out on practice and they leave. So it's um I I didn't have to deal with that. I'm still paying on my veterinary loans, you know. I have the the convenience of COVID to happen during the butt line, should be paid off here in two more years. But they with the forbearance and everything, that changed everything. But unlike some people, during four advance, I paid off my print, a bunch of principal. I paid like $40,000 off on my principal, so dropped my student loan debt quite a bit, you know. My yeah, my debt loads every month. It's still a freaking heavy mortgage payment, but but you are on track to finish paying it off very quickly. Yeah, I'll have my own. That's another proud moment you need to add to the list. I from the minute I graduate, like we started talking about so Iowa State. I don't know what other colleges do, but they're really, really, really um stringent about talking to you about your finances. So they're the finance director we used to have, he's not there anymore, Clay. He like routinely would talk to you about your plan for repayment, and AJ was constantly on you about it, and they have all these calculators and all these options, and we talk about it all the time. So I immediately knew I wanted to pay off in 10 years. The other thing is we have the farm, and like we run that farm for quite a while, so I already knew what debt looked like and I already knew what interest looks like, and I was very comfortable with you know, I like the financial freedom aspect of things. I don't I don't want to owe anyone money if I don't have to. So I I'm on like that veterinary debt-free Facebook page or whatever, or you know, veterinary debt, and I just like it's really daunting to read some of those.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, some of those posts are very, very scary. And I mean, fortunately, there are people out there.
SPEAKER_03Um, I'm gonna put a little plug for Meredith Jones. She is a student loan financial planner, she worked for a student loan planner, and now she's out on her own doing student loan financial planning as well as personal financial planning.
SPEAKER_02And she she is like the woman. Yeah, she has to respond. She always, you know, she's really shining light on, you know, trying to give these people who have some very daunting stories and amounts that that they will owe, and and put some light that there is hope. Yeah. Of you know, maybe it doesn't look exactly like you think of how you want to plan to pay it off, but there are plans, and she will gladly work with you on, you know, how are we gonna approach this? And it's funny you bring this the like how our conversation has kind of come around to student debt, um, because that is one of my passions is talking about student debt. Um, I'm presenting tomorrow on personal finance to students here at the conference, and you just shared probably one or two of my slides.
SPEAKER_04Oh, really? Yeah, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_02So no, no, that's awesome. That we've got, you know, somehow it does end up in these conversations. Everyone has mentioned something that I'm gonna be talking about um in my presentation. So that's cool. Do you have any financial advice that you might offer someone that's you know coming out of school with that large amount of debt? Just, you know, big picture.
SPEAKER_04Um besides marrying the engineer. No, yeah, because yeah, we can't. Once again, I picked my husband before I picked my career. My advice to be would be, and this is probably I don't know, this is my personal opinion, is like, don't fall for this. Oh, well, I deserve this, so I'm just going to pay what I want on the loans so that I can live this life of luxury that I want to live because I worked hard. I kind of my I and my opinion on it, and what I we have tried to do is yeah, we we don't miss out on things, but we don't live lavishly until that debt is gone. And that comes more from like my background of like having like the farm debt that we have. Like when you look at the interest, and actually I loved it. My daughter, we're making her pay for her college, and then we're reimbursing her as long as she passes, because I have a child that lacks motivation at times, and that was really hard, and all my family was very upset with me that I made her do that. And I was like, But when she wrote went to write her first check for her student loan, like her tuition, and she's going to a community college, it's a little more affordable. But um, she's like, Mom, they gave me these three options. I could write a check and it was this much, or I could write two checks and it would be this much, but or I could write like multiple payments and it was gonna be way more money if I did that. So I just wrote them a check. And it's like without even realizing she figured out what interest was at 18, you know. Awesome. And so I guess that is just my background, my family's background, my husband and I's ideologies of like how we want to run a family, but like I just see so many veterinarians um like commenting that, well, I don't want to have to live like I am, you know, dirt poor. And unfortunately, in some situations, um, they're living like that, and they shouldn't have to be living like that, like as far as like because of rural America or some poor choices or whatever, like with job choices and and where they're at. But I also don't think we need you know, brand new BMWs until our debts are paid, like uh you know, it's all within reason. I think student loan that situation, I am so sick of hearing people talk about it because every time they bring it up like a solution, it's so not a solution. Like they need to ask the veterinarians what the solution is, and it's not what any of these people come up with, in my opinion. That's just my opinion.
SPEAKER_02No, there are um, and then going back to my presentation tomorrow, there are some slides that I'll be talking about so down the different payment plans, and they're all like not well equipped for the veterinarian that is in our picture of being in a rural practice, probably moving from somewhere, you know, one rural place to the next, regardless. Yep. Um, yeah, they're not it's not well equipped. And and what is the answer?
SPEAKER_03Nobody has the answer, but I think if they spoke to individuals who are in that situation, they could get a whole lot better idea of actually what is needed.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, the uh and the little pre-vet swim that's riding with me, she brought up the girl, the lady that's driving the 500 miles to New York, uh, there's like the American, yeah. And she's like, Oh, you know, just this idea, like green, and then I go, Well, what you have to remember is that generation, if you're 60 some years old, when you went to vet school, I mean, I do not leave even in any way, she performed quotely on the numbers, but they paid maybe $30,000 to go to vet school. They've owned their practice for 20 plus years, they have no debt, essentially. Their degree is paid for it, their practice is paid for. But when you're graduating, so I graduated with $165,000 worth of debt. I don't I'll tell anybody that doesn't bother me any. I was like probably 5.9% interest overall, over all my loans. So not terrible. Um, you know, you can't buy a house for that, I don't think, right now. Um, but you know, trying to pay for that and then also then go borrow money to buy a practice. I mean, your debt load just keeps getting bigger and bigger. And so the the economy of scale is so different. Yep. And so when they talk about her going up there and how no one wants to go up there and service these animals that's in up northern New York, it's like, well, she has like no cost. I mean, she has a cost associated with it, but she doesn't have a debt associated with that. So I don't think they realize that some of these rural areas aren't capable of supporting the veterinary that we're graduating today.
SPEAKER_03Yes. No, I think you're I think you're exactly right on that. That there's on the farmer end of things, there's gonna have to be some kind of regrouping as well as on the veterinary side. Just I mean, they both have to blend together, but the current status of many farmers uh is is you know, they're oh, the vet's the most expensive, which is not true.
SPEAKER_02No, the feed bill's the most expensive, and then when they actually look at the service provided by the vet, um they are getting more than what they're paying. You know, they get great service, the veterinarians have to be able to bring that up to charge what they are worth. Yeah, because we are worth a lot more than we think.
SPEAKER_04Oh, we don't none of us charge enough, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so on our next question, do you have any special memories or um a story or two you want to share? Funny, humbling, kind of anything goes, um, as you know, being vet real, you know, vetmed related, um, being a mom, if you have a funny story with you know with your daughter, something of that nature that you'd like to share.
SPEAKER_04Oh, this is like I feel like it's super on the spot. Now I wish I would have, I'm sure I could have remembered a good story. I I'll tell you, maybe I'll think of one while I blah blah blah, but um I like to have fun, there's no doubt. Like I do one thing I miss about mixed live, like working in a practice with multiple people is kind of that like that playfulness that we used to have with having a lot of us around versus now if it's me every day with the same person, you know, at some point and just maybe I don't know. We we do fine, but it was fun in practice to have multiple people. We had a really good time. I we always used to joke at 4:30 on Friday, like, good luck if I'm seeing your pet at that point because I'm so checked out and we're just gonna have a good time. And um, yeah, I'm known for like at that practice, I was known for just saying things off the cuff and getting in a little bit of trouble. One thing we did do, we used to do this thing called slack slap, and so if you did like a scrotal appellation on a dog or like a we would save it and then you would sneak up on someone and throw the scrotum at them. Oh boy, yeah. That could be fun, yes. It's fun in the fact that it's sneaky. So I I got one thrown at me, a dog one, and then I turned about and went out and cut 150 calves and kept every single one of them and dumped the bucket back on that veterinarian. So I guess that's kind of my problem is most of my stories are super probably inappropriate for anyone to be listening to in some way, shape, or form. But we had fun knowing each other department and private practice, so I didn't get in a lot of trouble. Um uh yeah, I I can say most of my stories are probably not podcast friendly, but um I think that story that's a great that's a great story because I feel like I've heard of people, you know, doing something, you know, kind of prank like.
SPEAKER_02Um, and so far no one has shared any of those. So yeah, we got that one covered. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_04We had them put I had my daughter was like with that T-Rex, you know, the dinosaur one year. So I did we did that one year. I came in as a dinosaur, and yeah, we had a lot. That is one that like the fun thing about working with people is you do get to have a lot of interactions and have fun. Being solo, it's a little isolating at times, so it's fun to come here in places like this and meet other people that do it too.
SPEAKER_02But and that's like exactly what this conversation is for, you know, making some connections, knowing that other people also feel isolated at times, um, and having that to I don't know if I commiserate on it, but yeah, you know, that sort of thing. So, do you have any advice for new large animal vets, um women specifically, maybe, maybe even you know, if they've already had children um and they've made it through with raising that child as they're going through vet school and now they are out in the big world?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think just like be humble and confident because I've never once I get maybe it's just the way I was raised, maybe it was that I worked before I went to vet school, but like this fear that people have in general to like be wrong, like you're going to be wrong. It is just like part of life. Like whether it's you're a veterinarian or you're a trapeze artist, like you're gonna they have a net for a reason. So you're they're gonna miss. And I think clients overall have always received um my I don't know, but I can sure find out for you, or um, you know, I'll look into that, like, especially as a solo practitioner. I do a lot of like, listen, my end of one is one, right? So, like, if I've only ever treated one of these, but I have a whole gamut of people I can talk to and a book I can read, and and then I can come back to you. And I always would go back, like I'm a person that works off physiology, so I'm a I'm a big like pharmacology, physiology, virology type person. So when we talk about something wrong with an animal, I say, like, especially in the farming community, you know, there's a lot of clinical impressions with like antibiotics or treatment response and stuff like that. And I tend to come back and say, okay, that's fine, but that's a clinical impression, but you don't understand the physiology, you don't understand the pathology, like all that. And and you don't need to get in the wheezy people, that's not the wheelhouse, just like I can't go change a turbo on a motor, like I don't know how to do that, right? And so I'm gonna ask somebody to do that. I might, you know, have an opinion of what I've seen on YouTube, but I can't do it. And so I deal with that a lot with you know, people coming at you and they're like, Well, you know, so-and-so says, and so-and-so's got a GED, you know, so maybe instead of being defensive and rah rah rah about it, like, well, you know, hey, like I understand and like appreciating meeting people where they're at, like when they've worked with cattle 25 years, it's really um, they're not gonna like you coming and sell them they're wrong. So finding that way to like tell them that though I understand and I'm hearing what you're saying and that's interesting and whatnot, but like, hey, like my training tells me this, or my experience tells me this, and being humble about it and being confident, you know, nothing like over my time with working. So the practice I came from, we were primarily women actually. So it's funny the practices switched to almost all men now, but at the time we were primarily women, and what I got a resounding response from people was when I walked into the room, I like I took control of the situation. I was confident when I said something. And the funny thing is, a lot of times those guys would, I'd remember that, I'd be like, I didn't know what the heck I was doing. I just like, but nobody wants you to be kind of C-section at 2 a.m. on their club cow that when you're going, oh, I don't know, you know, like just like be confident. And if you don't know the answer, it's okay to like call someone else or figure it out. And and um, like on the mom side thing, don't feel guilty about being a mom. Like don't be afraid to go home, don't miss going to a volleyball game because you feel like you have something to prove. Like, I just that part of it I would regret a thousand times over. I mean, I'm sure all of us get to the end of parenting, nothing at the end, but she's in college now, right? So I just that is the part that if I were gonna go back and change it all, I just I wouldn't have made the sacrifices for other people. I mean, there's a balance in there.
SPEAKER_03I love it. That is a wonderful answer. So you actually kind of already answered this on that's that are looking, you know, talking about family-wise.
SPEAKER_02And so is there anything that through this conversation we missed and you want to share with the audience?
SPEAKER_04Um, I guess I would just not let anyone hold you back if it's what you want to do. I just I had plenty of people tell me that I could not go to vet school and that I would not be able to go to vet school. I haven't had when I got in, someone's like, I didn't know you were that smart. Because I'm kind of like a good time Charlie type person. Like, people tend to not realize that I'm fairly intelligent because I don't like that side of myself. I like to be fun and whimsical, you know. And so, like, and most of the time people don't understand what you're saying when you're highly intelligent. Not that I'm highly intelligent, but I'm intelligent enough. Um, so I had everyone tell me, no different than when I got pregnant at 18, everyone told me, you know, you can't be a mom, that you can't make it, you can't do you can't go to school. I, you know, instead I graduated in four years, just like I planned on doing with, you know, with no problems with a high GPA, a high enough GPA to apply to vet school. And then the same thing, when I went to go to vet school, even I hate to say this, but even my own family was like, is this what's right for your family? You know, is this what's right for your daughter? And I guess you know, that was between my husband and I, not anyone else's the way I looked at it. But I don't think I had very many people ever tell me what I was doing that I was gonna be successful until now. Now everyone's very supportive, but they lots of people were the opposite, and I just that triggers me to want to do things, but I think some people aren't confident or as resilient as I am, and if they hear that over and over again, they're just not gonna want to, they're not they're gonna convince themselves that they can't or they won't, and it's just not the case, like it's all possible.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I think that's a great place for some pause. Um, because yes, I have the same mentality that if somebody says, Oh, you can't do that, or you're too small to go do that, because I'm relatively small query saying, heck yes, yeah, that just lights the fire that I am gonna do this, and you know what, I'm gonna do a really good job. And so I think more people need to hear that that don't let things hold you back, don't let those comments be the reason you turned down a dream. Um, because there's there's so many options, so many things that you can do within animal agriculture, within VetMed, um, that nothing should hold you back. Yeah, so thank you so much, Callie, yeah, for coming and talk with me. Um, I am gonna include Callie's email address in the show notes. If something out of the conversation resonated with you and you'd like to reach out to her, the email address will be available. So thank you. You're welcome. So there is a new feature for this podcast where you can support the show financially. If you are liking what you're hearing and you would like me to continue uh to publish episodes on the various platforms that are available, please feel free to go ahead and click on the support the show link and put in a little bit of information and make a contribution. No pressure, but if you'd like to do it, I would appreciate it. And I'm just gonna keep uh chugging along, meeting people and sharing their stories. So if you'd like to help me do that in a in a small way, that would be wonderful. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00That's all for this episode. Thanks again for spending your valuable time with me. I appreciate it. Just a reminder: this podcast is not intended to provide medical advice. Please contact your local veterinarian to establish and maintain a valid VCPR veterinary client-patient relationship. If you liked what you heard on this episode, please rate and review this podcast and share it with a friend. If you have questions or comments about this podcast or topics covered or ideas for topics, you can reach me at beyond the greenbibs at gmail.com or on Facebook and Instagram at Beyond the Green Bibs. Have a great day, and we'll catch you next time.