Ep 25 Bridging Faith and Music: A Conversation with Fred Pope Jr.

Fred Pope Jr. brings a refreshing breath of authenticity to this soul-stirring conversation about faith, music, and spiritual growth. As a minister, musician, and producer, Fred shares how his journey through different spiritual paths ultimately strengthened his Christian faith and ministry, providing him with unique tools for understanding scripture and connecting with others.

The conversation takes a powerful turn when examining the concept of "fearing God." Fred challenges listeners to reconsider traditional interpretations, suggesting that reverence and relationship should replace terror in our approach to the Divine. "If you're doing right, there's nothing to fear," he explains, offering a perspective that transforms spiritual practice from anxiety-driven obligation to loving connection.

Music emerges as a central theme throughout the episode, with Fred describing how growing up in a family saturated with musical talent shaped his understanding of sound as a spiritual force. "Everything in the world has a sound," he notes, "that's how [God] created the world." This perspective elevates his approach to production and ministry, seeing music not merely as entertainment but as a vehicle for delivering life-changing truth in accessible forms.

When discussing current world events and conflicts in Israel, Fred provides thoughtful biblical context while emphasizing personal spiritual preparation over political anxiety. His insights on family traditions—particularly the Thanksgiving gatherings featuring prayer circles and scripture recitation—offer beautiful examples of how faith practices can bind generations together and create lasting spiritual foundations.

Perhaps most compelling is Fred's transparency about his own ongoing growth and challenges, including his visual impairment, which hasn't limited his ministry or music production. His humility creates space for listeners at any stage of their spiritual journey to feel welcome and encouraged. "God loves you," he concludes, "and there's more available to you—just come and get it." This conversation will leave you reflecting on your own relationship with faith, purpose, and authentic connection long after the episode ends.

Chapters

• 0:00 Podcast Introduction and Guest Welcome
• 7:30 Fred's Ministry and Musical Background
• 20:45 The Journey to Preaching and Ministry
• 38:40 Faith, Fear, and Relationship with God
• 53:10 Music Production and Creative Process
• 1:06:15 Israel-Gaza Conflict and End Times
• 1:21:50 Fame, Success, and Spiritual Values
• 1:36:00 Family Memories and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:07

What's going on y'all? Hey, y'all already know what it is. It's another one, it's another Wednesday. Hey, when y'all hear my voice in the podcast, come on. Y'all know that it's Wednesday, it's hump day, we almost through the week and we turning up y'all. So, hey, without further ado, this is your boy, abiyah, on the Spit your Tooth podcast and I got my beloved brother on here with me this time, and I mean, this brother is very knowledgeable in a lot of different things and we have some different, some some different and some some real deep and intelligible conversations. So I had to get him on a podcast, had to get him on here, had to show y'all, I mean had to let y'all see the brother, because he has a ministry too, and we're going to get into all that too, y'all.

Speaker 1: 0:57

But without further ado, I'm going to let him go ahead and introduce himself, because if I was to do it, it wouldn't give him enough justice. So go ahead and introduce yourself, because if I was to do it, it wouldn't give me enough justice, so go ahead and introduce yourself, bro, tell them who you is and what you came to do.

Speaker 2: 1:13

So my name is Zachary Fred Pope Jr, gracie, everybody, everybody. Fred Pope Jr. This is the gospel, christ and Christian At Rice as well, and and every other genre producer, songwriter, singer, and I go by Facebook and also at the style of music.

Speaker 1: 1:37

Hey, y'all need to check in, tap in on his pages, on his social media links, because he's doing a lot of good things for the community and his ministry and his community and just the overall community too. Like you know, he's spitting the word, speaking the word at the most time, and you know he's a good brother. You know good brother, I've known him for years and you know we've always had good interactions like so all praises, bro, so yeah, so which you said that you, uh, you have a minute, so where do you preach at, bro?

Speaker 2: 2:17

Man. I'm at the Salem Missionary Baptist Church in Dayton, ohio, 3100 West 3rd Street Church in Dayton, ohio, 3100 West 3rd Street. It's open and available to come worship with the family. So we're not up to no money stuff. It's the pure word of God. Don't believe it takes all day. Get that done.

Speaker 1: 2:39

Hey, and that's the biggest thing, it don't take all day, y'all, because some of these churches and these Hebrew classes and Christian classes be like hey, we come in at 12, we leaving this motherfucker at 12, like bro like why?

Speaker 1: 3:00

and I and I, I get it, I get it, I get it, excuse me, y'all Excuse me, I get it, but it be too much. I remember when I was going to the Christian church when I was younger, my Aunt Betty, my bad y'all. Y'all already know what I be on Like. Bro, I'm gonna get my hound, you know. So y'all gotta endure my coughing because that was a good laugh. It went down the wrong pipe, but, or the right pipe, whatever you want to say.

Speaker 1: 3:36

But yeah, man, I remember we went to the when we used to go to church. We went to St Luke, ame, and my Aunt Betty she was an evangelist, so she did. She was like a traveling preacher. She didn't know, she didn't have like a set place where she preached, she just went and just gave it out everywhere, right. So this sister, she was like I couldn't understand if she was powerful, or it was just like a like I couldn't understand if she was powerful, or it was just like a shame, I don't know. But she would like when they would ask her to pray, her prayers would last about 20 minutes and people would be asleep.

Speaker 1: 4:21

People would be like man trying to like yeah, they would like the choir would like be trying to like that. Yeah, they would like the uh, the choir would like like be trying to uh like prompt her to shut up, like end it, because they'd be like behind her singing low, like you know what I'm saying, and uh like, especially, she was the one like, if you like thanksgiving, christmas, don't let her pray over the food because it's go get cold, you know, and. But she would always come to church and be like turned up, though, like her preaching was turned up, like it was just fire, but we was always, when she came to preach, we knew we was going to be in church until about 4, like start at 12, be there about 4, 5, and then she'd be like man, they'd be doing a benediction, they'd be like man, do you want to pray? Be like everybody, be like, be like be trying to like. No, don't let her pray because we'll be here another hour Like it was crazy though, man, but that's a good thing though, man, and I've seen some of her, some of your videos, and listen to some of your videos and your and listen to some of your preachers too, bro, like, and you know you definitely like hit, be hitting them, definitely be giving them what they need, like giving the sheep what they need and not you know.

Speaker 1: 5:32

And that's a good thing that we we have brothers that that's knowledgeable out here to you know and verse them and, in the old and the new testament, to be able to share with the flock.

Speaker 2: 5:43

so yeah, so how long you been preaching, bro so I well, officially, like officially licensed and everything, I would say a year now, a little over a year and a half I guess now, um, but you know, when you have a calling, bro, right, you are living in your calling long before you actually maybe start officially doing it.

Speaker 2: 6:07

So on some levels I've been doing it a long time Right Opposed to just a bunch of different aspects and thought. And so I kind of left the church for quite a while and started, uh, started exploring into other things that you know, most people would see as being pagan, um, and I learned how to learn from those schools you know, um, they, they taught me how to do etymology, right, how to look behind the words, uh, to comprehend the original languages, how to apply it to the text, even though they were twisting the text, you know so much. And so most high managers, one day, at a meeting, speaking to me, while I was speaking to the person who was and let me know, this dude was like an antichrist type, and that, and let me know, this dude was like an antichrist type, you know. And then I questioned because he didn't want to have to hit the truth. So from that day forth, man, I started my journey back into bibliography and just trying to learn and understand and comprehend.

Speaker 1: 7:24

Bro Right, most eyes just done a bunch with that man ever since and it and it shows, bro, because, like it, hey, y'all it, like me and the brother that has some some, some deep debates and you know, when we debate, it's like all love at the end, like it's all love through it as respect to everything like, and it'd be beautiful, but it'd be like sometimes he'd be, he'd be sharing some stuff and I'd be like, hold on that, that.

Speaker 1: 7:51

That do make sense, like, even though I don't believe it, like I like he'd be almost turning me bro, like I ain't gonna lie, but like, hey, man, that do make sense. I didn't look at it like that, like, but it takes a humble heart and an objective mind to really you know what I'm saying Like, okay, I see where you're coming from. I might not believe it, but I see where you're coming from and I love you for that. Love you for you being you and standing on what you stand on. You know what I'm saying, because not too many brothers out there stand on business. You know what I'm saying and, and I can't say you, one of those brothers that really do stand on busyness, like, when they come down to it, it's like, yeah, fuck, what you talking about, this is what it is Like you know what I'm saying and that's how I need to be more with us. Like you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 8:39

Right, yeah, well, I'm a big believer that scripture explains itself and we will take the time to dig through the scripture and really read it, and not read it from the perspective of our previous understanding, but allow it to speak to us in the moment, because it's alive, the Bible is alive, the Torah is alive, the Gospels are alive and they're there to give us life. So if you're willing to open it up and to read it and encompass the historical value and all of those other things, we'll see what's there, because it's all there, right, of course I put it there because you don't want to see it, right? It's all there, man. We just got to study the Scriptures, not necessarily yield so much to what we're being taught all of the time. Yeah, yeah, um, because we know that there are heretics out here who are teaching all kinds of stuff that sound good to the ear.

Speaker 1: 9:34

Yeah, don't line up with scripture don't line up and they don't line up historically either right and and when it. When you can't connect the dots, like that man, I just I really can't respect your teaching. You know, I'm saying I I real deal, like because if we, if we say that you know that historic history has has an effect or has a predetermined effect on the future and what had what's going on now, that why not respect it and and and and really you know, value it as as such, but a lot of brothers don't. So you know it is what it is. So when did you, when did you know, like the first time you knew, like, yeah, I was called like the most, I. The first time you knew like, yeah, I was called like the most, I called me the. The priestess word, teach the word. Like when was it and what was the exact moment? Like what was going on at that moment? I think?

Speaker 2: 10:32

I think I've known for a few years, for sure, you know, um, I had approached several pastors that I sat under and served under, and they were not as eager, I will say, to deal with it or whatever the reason, and I don't necessarily blame them Right, um, I think everything is about God's time. Yeah, god's time, yeah With things, and so things have to be right in his time. But if I'm pushing, um, I think my lifestyle and how I was living was a deterrent as well, because I didn't have my things together and I still don't being transparent. I'm still learning, I'm still growing, I'm still maturing, I'm still making very youthful mistakes in some areas, but that's a part of the process.

Speaker 2: 11:26

The Bible uses the word, it talks about healing, and whenever we see the word healing, especially in the New Testament, the Greek word for that is therapeutos, and that's where we get the concept of therapy from, and so in English we use therapy, and so we any of us who've ever been to any kind of physical therapy you know that it's a process that you start small and that each week or day that you take it, there's a slight increase of ability in order to gain some sense of strength and grow back into some formality.

Speaker 2: 12:01

So this walk that we're doing in terms of getting to know our creator and to be shaped more into his image in terms of character and behavior, is a process, and some of the old folks used to say it's hard but it's fair right. But I think that we learn real heavily from our mistakes and our pain. So, um, so I've had to go through some pain, make some mistakes, have some falls out and learn to get back up and understand that it's about how I deal with it from this point, you know, right, in order to get there, right? So I'm just on the journey, man, I I'm a student. I'm a student of everything that I put my hands on Music, the Bible, students are the most high. I'm just a complete student, even though I may act in a teacher's role. For me that means I should be a bigger student.

Speaker 1: 13:00

Hey, like the oldie say, the day that you stop learning is the day you stop living, you know?

Speaker 2: 13:08

sir, yeah, anything that ain't growing is dying.

Speaker 1: 13:11

Yeah, it might be dead, all right man, right, thank you for the correction, bro. Yeah, all praises. So when did you start making music like? When was your like your your passion, like your pad? When did it kick in music Like? When was your passion Like? When did it kick in Like? I know that you know you've probably been making music for a long time, especially when you was younger. But, like, when you was younger, like, what was the thing that like motivates you to like make your first track or sing your first vocal?

Speaker 2: 13:44

or sing your first vocal. Well, man, I was engulfed in an environment of being completely engulfed On both sides of my family was music, got musicianship and vocalists, every dynamic of my family no kidding, Like I won't get into mentioning no names, and all that on the spot. I got pictures of me on the drum sets, you know, after church or something like that, at three years old, and I did that in church for a long time. By the time I made it to high school I was in a different stage and so I was kind of fighting with the attraction to the streets and music education. So I didn't take my music, so I didn't take my music education seriously, right, but production, production wise. Then I started actually hitting it real hard.

Speaker 2: 14:54

Just before COVID, like just before COVID, I started hitting production pieces, okay, and through the COVID period I had more time to be able to dedicate to that. I started doing stuff on Clubhouse and just all kinds of little places, man, to get my feet wet, right, you know. And so one of my uncles introduced me to Tina MK3, and then the Lord blessed me with being able to meet somebody who had kind of learned to master it. So I spent time with them maybe. Maybe about two weeks or so every day for a couple hours, right, um, and then, man, it was just on and popping after that, things that didn't make sense before made a lot of sense, yeah, and so, um, you know, still on the journey with that too, and I haven't haven't yet released any music.

Speaker 2: 15:51

Um, I'm waiting on a release. You know from the most how to do that. Um, being urged by my loved ones and friends to come and get it done and do it. I think I'm making it a little more complicated than what it has to be. So, yeah, I think I'm making it more complicated than what it has to be, because a lot of the things that I hear in the marketplace is very simplistic and kind of I don't know mediocre in terms of what I see as musicianship, but they're growing up Right. So I think I might be making it, yeah, maybe growing up right.

Speaker 1: 16:24

So I think I might be making yeah, maybe, but the thing of it is is that you know we, like we say we are our own uh worst enemy and uh, worst critic too. So you know, I know, I know you probably don't criticize a lot of your stuff but, like, sometimes it's about timing. You know I'm saying it's about just putting it out at the right time, the right moment and just, you know, giving the world what it needs when it needs it. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 16:52

Well, and I think for me it's not. The musicianship piece is not as important to me as the message piece. So my prayer is that the Lord will allow me to be cunning and be able to give people the essence of Scripture, the interpretation of Scripture, without them necessarily knowing that that's what they're getting. And so that means that I have to be ministered to in that way first before I can minister out that way. Right, right, I get it, I get it. I get it, yeah, yeah, because for me the music is about the message.

Speaker 2: 17:29

More you know the tones and the vibrations is what's going to set the atmosphere, but the words that are spoken to them is what's going to give them life, break chains free and deliver folks from the frame of mind that they have. Because a lot of folks believe behavior is all it is. Behavior is only one division. A man can be incarcerated, change his behavior long enough to get out, then get out, and because his spirit has not been changed and our minds are a reflection of our spirit, then we're going to go back into old behavior Real quick. So you know, I want to push the message.

Speaker 1: 18:08

Yeah, you're doing that, bro, You're definitely doing that, like y'all definitely tapping in with what he's doing, man and his ministry. Tell them where they can find y'all ministry, like, do y'all have a YouTube page? Anything like that? You know what?

Speaker 2: 18:22

We're not doing a lot of youtube stuff at the moment, um, because we believe that it creates a convenient, uh, adversarial to what we're trying to accomplish, okay and so, um, you know, so every once in a while there'll be some places. My pastor does do, uh, a weekly message on facebook, so that's salemary Baptist Church, dayton, ohio, and you can check him out. It's usually about 15 minutes at its best. He does that every week and when the Lord allows me to stand, I try to remember to go on Facebook Live. I just did something last Sunday, so there's something on there in reference to that. Yeah, so tap in with us, man, love to see you. All we want to do is love on you, man, and pass the word along. That's it. Don't want your money, not concerned about your money, all of that kind of stuff. God, don't need your money in either way. Speak really. So, yeah, yeah, there's no money in heaven. No money in heaven, guys.

Speaker 1: 19:29

He said God don't want your money, and neither do we.

Speaker 2: 19:33

No, not really, Because the money piece is designed so that there are. You know, he said bring you all the ties to the storehouse that you need in my house, right, and so the money is to take care of the business, so that we can meet the needs of the church and we can meet the needs of the people in some way. Right? So if we got a saint, that's poor, you know, and not to highlight nobody or make them feel bad about that, because we all go through financial well with all right, but you know, if there's nothing there, then we can't give anybody anything, can't be of no assistance or help to nobody. So we're not around there trying to make a check, is all I'm trying to suggest. You give unto the Lord as he sees right and as your heart compels you to do so, but you're not giving that money to us, you're giving that to the Lord and he's allowing us to be the storehouse for it so we can use it for what it is. Right, right, okay.

Speaker 1: 20:36

And that's what it's for like to build up the community and to help the sick and the shut-in the help the sick and the shut in the widows and the fatherless. You know, and that's a good thing that y'all doing it. For that, Y'all using it, for that I commend y'all, because not a lot of and I just got to be real not a lot of Christian churches do that, you know.

Speaker 2: 21:00

Not a lot of Hebrew.

Speaker 1: 21:02

Israelite classes and churches do that too.

Speaker 2: 21:08

It's a sticky subject, man. I think it's important man to know that there is two divisions of what's being taught biblically in terms of what we see in the Bible. You see, the religious leaders they taught one thing and lived another back then. And so you know, religious leaders, they taught one thing and lived another Right. And so you know there's a difference between the biblical view and the Talmudic view of how things are supposed to go, the Pharisaical view of what things were. And so that's what made Yahshua an adversary to those cats, because he wasn't trying to follow their traditions, he was trying to do Torah.

Speaker 1: 21:50

Right and that, and, at the end of the day, that's that's what that's where we at with it. I get it, definitely get it. We, uh, we have to. We have to understand that, you know, within life and within the confounds of the most highest love, you know. Before I touch on that, I want to touch on something that we talked about a couple of little while the last time we had a conversation I want to touch on this and I was like uh, and I was like man, yeah, you know, we should fear the most hottest and this and that. And he was like why, it's like you know, we, we, you don't think, I don't think that we should, it should be a whole big fear piece. I think that you know that you should fear the, the, the, the. If you doing something bad, fear, if, if you, if you need their repentance, but if you good and you getting the good graces of the most high, then it should be nothing but love. You should feel and love back and that really like it.

Speaker 1: 22:59

It stuck with me and I had to really like meditate on that for a little while, bro, like I really did. And, uh, I, I gotta say that at that, at that point. At that time I did not. I'm just gonna be real, I'm I did not agree with you like I did, but after I meditated on it, I'm like, damn, that make a lot of sense and and it has to and sometimes we have to just like take ourselves out of ourselves. It wasn't nothing about my pride or my ego, it just like I just seen it a different way, like, but you know, when I, when I sat back from the conversation, I was like you know what that do make a lot of sense, like, if you ain't did nothing wrong, then why are you? You know, why are you feeling some type of way? You know, why are you? Why are you fear? I?

Speaker 2: 23:51

think. I think that we think of fear as in scared, and he doesn't want us to be afraid of him. He's trying to, all through the Bible, from Genesis to Revelations, he was trying to offer us his love right. Right, he was trying to offer us his love right and so, and we see that expression of that love starting from Genesis all the way to Revelations. Now, does that mean that people didn't pay penalties for things that they did? No, because just like human law is kind of mirrored after Most High's law, so there's a penalty. The wages of sin is death. But that being said, fear also means reverence, so you have a reverential kind of fear for the Most High.

Speaker 2: 24:49

There's somewhere in scripture I think it might be in Matthew or Luke, but it talks about how we feared our fathers on earth. In a certain manner, we had a reverence for them in a certain kind of way. All the more we should have that kind of reverence for our father in heaven. I mean he's, he's our father, and so he has our care and our concern, our protection in mind at all times. That's the case. That's the case. And no, I just don't believe, because if our aim is to please him, there's nothing to be afraid about.

Speaker 1: 25:31

Right, right, right. And that's what made me really reconsider what I was thinking, because, like you, just, you know, said I don't even want to have to expound, even try to break down, because you gave the proper and it was a proper definition and breakdown of it. But yeah, that's the biggest reason why.

Speaker 1: 25:54

I was like you know what?

Speaker 1: 25:56

Yeah, he right, like cause I'm like man we supposed to, but see, and I'm going to be real y'all Like that's what you know, that that camp, class doctrine, when you in these classes and these camps, for so long, you know you start to, you start to adapt, you know what was taught to you without you know really questioning, you think you question it and you think that you know, just because you can ask questions in the class and and and make comments that that that you've not been indoctrinated but you are In a way, but we'll get to that. That's a different conversation down the road. Y'all you know, y'all can hate me for that conversation, a couple episodes down from now, but not now, not now, because the way I look at it, man, I'm telling you, bro, like it's ugly man, the way that things are going right now and they're not like how I was when I first came and first really woke up. But you know it is what it is. But so what were some of your biggest inspirations in that like, as far as musically?

Speaker 2: 27:15

some of your biggest inspirations in the like. As far as musically right, well, musically, man, I was blessed, right, since everybody was musical in my household, right, right, uh, but everybody had a different musical taste. I was able to listen to all of their music, you know, from my grandparents. It was like, oh, my parents and my aunts and uncles, everybody's song.

Speaker 2: 27:49

So riding to church, harmonizing, writing from church, we were harmonizing, oh, and it was like entrenched in the music industry, and so I, just, man, I was just like in the atmosphere of music, like literally sitting in rehearsals watching people break these songs down and be able to teach the songs adequately and taking an arrangement that they heard somewhere else and making it their own and that being better than the original, and stuff like that. Just those were my, my, my inspirations and my pops had friends that now are very prolific people in music, but those are his friends, his high school friends, and they would come by the house and pick up an instrument and play, and I was able to play the drums along with them. So, just being challenged, music was all over the place, every aspect.

Speaker 1: 28:46

Right, that's what's up, man.

Speaker 1: 28:49

That's what's up, man.

Speaker 1: 28:50

And usually you know what they say about children that grow up and grow and throughout, like their teenage, their adolescent, teenage years, even up to adulthood sometimes that if they are, they are more likely to succeed if they play musical instruments.

Speaker 1: 29:14

And I and I looked at cause you know I love stats and all that and looking at statistic, you know this, numbers and on on data and stuff like that, and I looked at it, man, and it was, it was a good percentile.

Speaker 1: 29:30

It was over 50% of the children that they tested and that they observed and did this study on that, you know, actually were very, very productive in life and very successful and they played even the most minuscule you know instrument, like you know, and they stuck with it Like because it takes a certain type of discipline to you know to play an instrument and practice and practice, because ain't nobody like after your teacher stopped teaching you come from school or wherever you practice, it's up to you to have to you know what I'm saying To be as good as you want to be at it Like. So it takes a level of devotion and and and and and and drive and focus to really play an instrument. So I think that's why those people are more likely to you know, succeed in higher, higher rates of life, higher rates of life, higher rates of, in higher rates in life. My bad, I was saying it right, but not right?

Speaker 2: 30:40

Well, you know, statistically, what they say is that children who play an instrument or are in kind of vocal chorale, the years that they do it, they increase one letter grade in every aspect of their understanding. So you know, everything in the world has a sound. That's how I created the world, based upon his voice, with his tones and vibrations, right? So everything has a sound, even the grass. We can't necessarily hear the vibration of the grass or the tree, but it has one because it exists, right, and so I think we take that for granted sometimes in this world, how a father can get loud with his child and how it creates a disharmony and a dissonance on the side of that child, enough to make them sit down or sometimes even cry. The power of sound is something else, because the Bible says that life and death is in the power of the tongue, and that's sound, right?

Speaker 1: 31:54

yeah, no, sound is a thing, man, more than what we know, than we give credit for and it definitely like everything has like, yeah, like you said, everything that has, that has breath, even the things that don't have breath, have a phonetic sound to them. So yeah, I definitely agree with you on that. I was looking at Nat Geo one day and they were showing like how they had this machine and it's a new science. I forgot the name of it y'all, so don't quote me on it, but y'all can go Google it and if y'all want to fact check me, but it was, it's a new science and it's not new, but it's newish, but it's a newish science that they like they, they are using sound to create things.

Speaker 1: 32:49

So when they had to, and the way that they were like testing, doing the test trials, they were like, okay, so they put, put something. You know how they like put the sound of the speaker around the water and it does a little swirl and all that stuff like that boom. But they took it even further. So they was like, man, we about to do the letters of different languages of their alphabets further. So they was like man, we about to do the letters of different uh languages of their alphabets, right.

Speaker 1: 33:14

So they like all, right, we did, they did finish, they did uh, spanish they did, and some of them made little noises and stuff like that, but it was only until they put the olive of the hebrew language. They put it up and this machine started like it was like a polygraph machine and it started making like the little little sounds and stuff like that and it actually drew the olive on the paper, like once they put it up and it was. It was crazy, bro. I'm just looking like, so I get it. Yeah, they man and they always talking about some big bang, but the big bang was him just saying let there be light. Yeah, Sam.

Speaker 2: 34:02

Well, you know man. You know how humans are. It's an appropriate image that we are made Appropriate, misappropriate imagery that we are making appropriate. So what they're looking for in science, man, is what they consider God intelligent, and they're not far from reaching their goal in that Stuff like that Right that can calculate at just such high volume that it can answer a lot of the questions they have been unable to answer. Now we know that nothing that can be created can have an intellect, wisdom, knowledge and understanding. I hear you, because it all came from you, but that's what they're striving for. Right, because it all came from me, but that's what they're striving for, right and so. But you know, they're so wanting to go beyond where we are before where we are.

Speaker 2: 35:03

We want to go before this, and there was a problem going on before this. Why would we want to go there? I just don't get it. I never understood that. Why you want to go back to where there were more problems, most high. Why not figure out what to fix? Because now you don't have to go to no rich. Why not figure out what to fix? Because now you don't have to go to no Richard. Go straight to the most high, everything. And so why do you want the middleman, why do you want the anonac? You know what I'm saying. Why do you want all that and why do you want the inerrant? Because the most high is right. So what is wrong? Man? Yeah, and I'm saying that loosely because it's never wrong, right, but you know, but that's so much more sight Right Because it ends there. So it's the end game. Those are the end games. It really interprets it, it finishes it Right For the start and so we see it play out in time.

Speaker 2: 36:23

So you can't play chess with the chess master Mm, not for real. The chess master, yeah, not for free. Yeah, there's a picture over inside of uh brother was going through and it came over and it's God and the devil playing chess. No, it says checkmate. That's what it says, checkmate. And so this guy was walking through the store and he stopped and kept looking at this boy and he's a chess master and man, this thing is wrong. They said what do you mean? It's wrong. I'm a chess master. I'm telling you it's wrong. It says checkmate. But in actuality, god still has one move, like he really still has one move. So God has already completed all of this. He has to walk and what most people feel like. Yeah, we've gotten so, so mechanical and so technical and now we look at ourselves as avatars and don't even realize that most high is and home Right. There's nothing else to that don't even realize.

Speaker 2: 37:53

And most high is and home here, right there's nothing else to say if you don't like. You know. People give a lot of credit to Satan, but dude is a dog on the. He a dog on the. He has a reputation not omnipresent, he's not omniscient. He has to work through the Bible, so he has to walk through people who have not come to the light. That's how he worked. Has to come and go. You know what I'm talking about. Has to come and go. You know what I'm talking about. Gotta move around. So that means he has limitations In that he has to move around.

Speaker 1: 38:48

Right, right, right. The best example of that y'all is when y'all look at the book of Job, first couple chapters. Those hathos asked him, satan, where you been at? He said I've been up and down to and fro, yeah, bro, okay, okay, he couldn't really do nothing. After they made the let's just call it a bet for right now. After they made the let's just call it a bet for right now. After they made the bet, satan, it was limitations on it. Like Mosiah told Satan you can do everything you want to, but you can't take his life, bro, like, and it's a reason why he did that. Because, see, and this is why we can also double understand that the Mosiah ain't no liar and what he said come out of his mouth, don't come back void. He said you can't take his life. And when we look in the book of Isaiah, he say I'm the life giver, I'm the life bringer. So yeah, so yeah. You can't do what I do, satan, because you, not me, you know.

Speaker 2: 39:55

Satan is an imposter. He has a kingdom. He's the king of his kingdom. However, his kingdom is mirrored after the most highest kingdom, which means that he's really trying to imitate. Trying to imitate and he knows so foolish, he's a reprobate. The you know, trying to imitate and he knows so foolish he's a reprobate. The Bible describes it as a reprobate, really, because he can no longer do things that are good. There is no good in him, right, he can distort things that look like they're good. So he has folks coming into the industry promising them all of this other stuff. They signed on the dotted line and they're trying to give away something they didn't even purchase. Mm-hmm, you know what I'm saying. They're giving away something that don't even really belong to them. We don't hold ownership over our soul.

Speaker 1: 40:48

Right.

Speaker 2: 40:49

At all. You know what I mean ownership over our soul. Right At all. You know what I mean. But yet, and still, we have the right, given us the free will, to be able to choose between him and ourselves, more than anything else. Right, there ain't but three tricks.

Speaker 2: 41:03

Satan got in the first place man, lust of the flesh, lust of the eye and the pride of life. And so he hits us from those three angles in variation, plus to the eye and the pride of life, and so he hits us from those three angles in variations throughout the course of our lives. Try to keep us from not having a hope in the most high and not having a belief and understanding that things can change, serve the most high and our whole lives change. The time be redeemed, our generations be redeemed, our relationship with him be restored, like, yeah, that's all he got. Yeah, our generations be redeemed, our relationship with him be restored like, yeah, that's all he got, and that is a lot. That is a lot, but it's not enough to separate us from the most high yeah, it never will be.

Speaker 1: 41:44

You're right and that's the beautiful thing about it that you know Satan can still have all that, but the most high still got more, can still have all that. The most high still got more and we the children of the most high. So, you know, as long as we doing what we supposed to be doing out here, we covered, and that's beautiful.

Speaker 2: 41:59

I'll praise him and all the most high has for us to try, and if we're willing to try, then he's willing to be there with us and to expose himself to us and to expose himself to us so that we can see more and understand more. And no father wants their child to suffer. We don't want them to suffer. We try to tell them things to keep them from putting their foot in the holes that we personally have been in, and so all the more the most high is the grandfather keep them from putting their foot in the holes that we personally have been in, you know, and so all the more the most high is the grandfather. You know the grandfather, and so you know he don't want to see us suffer. He don't want to see us without him and things that he wants us to have. But it's not about prosperity on this side of the earth either. You know what I mean, and I think that's the thing that's emblematical that we get from the relationship we see with the children of Israel and the most high. It wasn't really about riches. They were in the wilderness. He gave them manna, fresh every day, you know enough for that day and then when they needed water, he brought water out of a place that doesn't have water in it. You know, yeah, he brought it from some. So he's the master of making something out of nothing. Out of nothing, using a few to do a lot.

Speaker 2: 43:28

Man, you know, to be able to show his power so that no human being can be able to really boast about it. Right, you know, folks, man, be patting themselves on the back about the gifts that they've been given. Man, no, bro, the most high gave me. The gift of music is his, it's his, and so I feel like I should use it for him more than I do anything else. You know what I mean and I take no credit for whatever you or anyone else may call greatness in my ability, because those are abilities that he gave me Right, and when I leave here they're going back Right, going back to him Right.

Speaker 2: 44:09

So you know I don't get into that patting myself on the back thing about that man. I'm grateful for having an opportunity to regain what I feel like I may have lost, being able to use it, being able to live out some of my dreams, you know, from the musical aspect. But that's all. Praise is due to him. He saw fit to do that. I had nothing to do with it. For real, yeah, hey and that's that's.

Speaker 1: 44:37

That's a humble man speaking. Speaking from humbleness, and, as you know, one thing that I understand about humbleness it take a while, it take years. I people just don't wake up and you don't come into the truth and just be humble, like because the most high, every time you say we something, the most high always test that ass, like, oh you humble, huh, yeah, send one of your brothers at you on some old bullshit, like let's see how humble you is, let's see how humble you are, deal with him, deal with this sister. See how humble you is?

Speaker 2: 45:06

Yeah, deal with this deal with you losing your job. If we're living our lives, though, if we're living our lives on this relationship, then it's hard. It's hard if you're really keeping the relationship back. It's hard to get beside yourself. Yeah, because if you're doing it to make your daddy proud, yeah, if you're doing it to make your daddy smile yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 45:30

But sometimes we slip, bro, like, and in that moment of slip and it's like, okay, we have to, we have to understand that that could be us not being on that that humbleness, because even even with our earthly, our earthly mothers and fathers, we test the waters and we might even do things even when we get older. And we might even do things even when we get older, like you know, that we don't, that we know is questionable to them, and we do it and not let them know type of thing, like but you can't, you can't have that away from the most high, you know, like you know. But I get what you're saying, though Definitely, I definitely get what you're saying. So, what you said, you use those family been pushing you to put a project out.

Speaker 2: 46:12

So what, what you got, what you got in store for us, bro, because I've been, I've been waiting like to really hear what you had and what's what's been going on over there well, man, my focus has really, really, really finished for the music and, and though music is a part of my ministry, man, I think that there's just a time season that's going to come when it's necessary. I'm working on it. I stopped talking about it and just been planning and trying to pull things together so that it can get done, man. But I got some stuff in store. I really do. I got some stuff in store. I really do. I got some stuff in store.

Speaker 2: 46:52

I think, musically it'll be, people will be able to get in with it. You know what I mean. And message-wise, man, like I said, trying to get them the pure essence and interpretation of Scripture. You know what I'm saying, and not necessarily let them know that's what they're getting. So later, you know what I mean, from where, down the line, it'll hit them in their spirit that something has changed because they listened to you.

Speaker 1: 47:24

And that's what it's about. That's definitely what it's about Changing the minds of those that want to be changed, and not necessarily trying to change somebody, but changing the ones that want to change. You know what I'm saying, because we can. We can push the message and force it all day, but if somebody don't want to take it, they ain't go take it, and that's just going to be what it is like. You know what I'm saying, so I know most, most people.

Speaker 2: 47:51

I think most people are looking for change. Yeah, not everybody, yeah, yeah. And the reason why I say that is because some of these brothers and sisters now fall in the category of a repudiation.

Speaker 2: 48:01

Yeah, the Lord has taken his hand off of them and allowed the decisions that they've made, decisions that they've made them to now have everything that they asked for on this side, get all they reward on this side and then, you know, be separated from him on the opposite side of all of it. Uh, but there are many more people. Bible says man. All this is going to go on until the number of the gentiles is met, number of the gentiles, and so that's not something that we can really track or trace, because that's happening internationally. People every day are coming to the knowledge of the Most High at different days and times and moments.

Speaker 2: 48:43

So, you know, it's important, I think, for us to take it serious, like in this, about everything that we do and stop trying to get worldly riches so much. You know what I mean. Stop trying to chase the trends and all of those things, because those things are designed to be a distraction to us. They're not feeding us properly. Tv shows are not feeding us properly. Songs that are on the radio are not feeding us properly. Not even the food that they're giving us is feeding us properly, and so are on the radio are not feeding us properly. Not even the food that they're giving us is feeding us properly, and so we need the bread of life in order to be able to make it. You know what I'm saying, because we're looking at changes that are happening very consistently and yet sporadically in different places of the world, that are moving us towards this end-time peace, yeah go ahead.

Speaker 1: 49:32

No, go ahead, bro, go ahead. I was about to change the subject, but go ahead.

Speaker 2: 49:38

I was just saying that time is winding up, man, and because we're not seeing it happen full-fledged on an international level, people are not acknowledging it, but it's happening, happening in front of us right now, and there's going to come a day when the Bible is not going to even be something we'll be able to really touch. So if you haven't swallowed it and it's not in your heart, maybe at a vulnerable place, right, yeah, yeah, you may be in a real vulnerable place because you might not have anything to pull from. That's the Lord. Provide a way for you to get a message.

Speaker 1: 50:08

I was about to ask you is Lord provide a way for you to get a message? I was about to ask you this is how do you feel about this whole Israel, gaza, israel, iran, uh, china, and and and and Russia and Ukraine? How do you feel about all this? Like, all that is going on over there Right, and a lot of our people are like, are like I can't say that. They are like even in the midst of it, like, because I know a lot of brothers and sisters that's over in that land that that, that, that area, that's like not nowhere near where they fighting, at Like. So that's that's our praise to the most high, thank you for his, his, that's all praise to the Most High, thanking for his mercy and his grace to keep them safe from in this wartime. But how do you feel about all this going on? What do you think it is? Do you think it's end time prophecy? Do you think that you know it's very prophetic.

Speaker 2: 51:04

OK, it's very prophetic. I think if we will take the time to study the book of Daniel thoroughly, take the time to study the book of Daniel thoroughly, we can now look at the emblems that were given and be able to directly attach those emblems to the countries that are involved. Because, like, for instance I'll use one in particular there's a country that all of their army stuff is leper, all leper, everything their planes are covered in leper skin, like you know, looking like leper, all leper, everything their planes are covered in leper skin, like you know, looking like leper. Right, it takes lepers. Well, we can go in Scripture, see what Scripture says about them and then identify the country by that. Hmm, that's, that's how solid the scripture is and how foolproof it is, and so we can see which nations are participating in what.

Speaker 2: 51:57

I do think it's, in time, prophetic. I think that it's important, though, that people understand that there is a difference from the biblical Israel and the Israel that we see now. There's a very big difference, because the Israel that we see now is a secular society that's not built off of a theocracy at all. Right, and the biblical Israel is the one that was a theocracy that was allowed to have a king, but indeed the most high is their king. He's the apple of, they're the apple of his eye. And so you know, the devil wants to imposter everything. He wants to change times, dates, seasons, places, people, things you know, to keep us off of the path. I think the other thing is and we have a big problem with worrying about the wrong, hmm, you'd be worried about my own the demo from the damn affected that the hand clap effect.

Speaker 1: 53:06

My bad y'all yes.

Speaker 2: 53:08

I truly. And so if, if we put our focus on really getting to know the most high in our day-to-day lives, we would see a whole lot of stuff. Things would become clear. But because we're looking through our, through the vehicle of our own glasses, or the narrative of the world, then we're not seeing things as they really are, right. But when you look through the Bible, I like to say that you're looking through the glasses of God. You know what I mean, right, and you're able to see what is going to happen. Now will we know everything? No, because it ain't necessary. We don't need to know everything. All we need to know is what we're responsible for. What he says is going to happen, what he says about us and what he says about himself Yep, that's it You'd be worried about the wrong things.

Speaker 1: 53:57

Black folks, yeah, the wrong things.

Speaker 2: 54:02

Yeah, it's just the wrong. Wrong things, man, and I get it. You know, this society has pushed this for so long, you know? Uh, I think of it like this we I was born in 1978, right. When I came here, things were already established, right, and so all that I could do was follow the pattern that was kind of put in front of me, right?

Speaker 2: 54:22

Bible says we're born into sin and shaped into a nickel, where iniquity is seen also, and so we're born into the environment of sin and we're shaped in the iniquity in that environment, right, and so the only way we can break free from that is by having a connection with the Most High, you know, and without it we're subject to do anything. Look at all the stuff these brothers and sisters are doing. You got sons killing mothers and then another son coming to kill the other son, right. We got mothers leaving their kids at home for years, leaving them home for years, just walking out the door and leaving them there. Like what kind of foolishness? Crazy. These are things that are unconscionable, right.

Speaker 2: 55:08

I mean, man, there's no love, and that's what we need. We need love, and God defines himself as being loved, right, so we need to implement him more. It's the thing that we'll do, and we'll start seeing a whole bunch of stuff just fall out. You know what I mean? Right, uh, they want to not have to work. I mean, I'm sorry, people, you're not going to be able to get beyond it, because even a bum that don't have a job has to work for everything they get, right, you know? Um, and so it's. It's just, man, we gotta line up. If we line up, we can find freedom, and I mean real freedom.

Speaker 1: 55:50

Right, you know, we line up, we can find freedom, and I mean real freedom.

Speaker 2: 55:52

Right, you know we don't have. We don't have no freedom in this country. We have liberty, and liberty is is a issue thing that can be taken back, mm, hmm, yeah, and they own their way to doing it, brothers and sisters.

Speaker 1: 56:07

They own their way to take that liberty back. Hmm, yeah, what y'all go do, mm, taking that liberty back? Then what y'all?

Speaker 2: 56:16

go do what y'all go do, then, yeah, it's going to leave us, it's going to leave people in a position, man, you know, because it's impossible to please God without faith. Yep, and though many people don't, you know, say they don't have no faith in this or that, but you do. You got faith in yourself most of the time because you think you can get up and make the bread to be able to get you out of the hole. Yeah, you know. And the biggest, one of the biggest things I've learned in life is that money ain't everything, but relationships are, you know. Relationships have gotten me stuff that I didn't have money for, yeah, and neither did the person that I had the relationship with, but because they had a relationship with somebody else, money wasn't even a factor.

Speaker 1: 57:03

Yeah, money wasn't even a factor.

Speaker 2: 57:04

Right, yeah, yeah, man. So you know it's all praise to the Most High man. You know it's all praise to the most high man. Um, you know it's, it's, it's here for us, man, if we want to really grab it, man, but we have to get outside of ourselves and really get into the most high in order to see what it is that he wants us to see. Right, you know, many of us are walking around with blinders on and don't even realize that we only are seeing an aspect of things. The Bible says that they have a form of godliness, but not acknowledging the power thereof. And so you know, I don't want a form of godliness. I want to be able to be pleasing to the most high in such a way to where he smiles on me, smiles on my generation, you know, smiles on the people I'm connected to, as opposed to the opposite. Right, right.

Speaker 1: 58:02

Right, that's the meaning of life and that's what we were created for. I don't know what other Toby did. I asked her, like man, what was the meaning of life, and that's what we were created for. I don't know what other Toby did. I asked her, like man, what was the meaning of life? Why was we created? She said the third and most high Dude what you talking about. She said it real calmly, like the third and most high.

Speaker 2: 58:23

Well, he wanted to have her. You think about it. You look in that garden piece in the second and the third chapters of Genesis, the most hot came to Adam and Eve every day, right In the cool of the day. Yeah, he wanted that, yeah, he wanted that relationship. And so that's the point of all of this is to eventually have us restored back to the place that Adam was in before the city. That's why the Bible refers to Jesus as being the second Adam, you know and so? And then, if you turn to the end of Revelations, it says that we have the right to the tree of life all over again. And so he wants to restore us, you know, and most people don't feel like they need to be restored. They don't feel like nothing is wrong with them. They're always right. They don't do nothing wrong, and they don't believe it until there's consequence. And even then, they may very well blame something or someone else all about it. Very much like Adam did.

Speaker 2: 59:31

He blamed it on his wife, I believe and this is just my sanctified imagination, but I believe that if Adam had rejected that truth, that the Most High would have made him another wife. I believe that too, bro, she would have been out of there. She either would have been out of there or there would have been a restoration that she could have went through. You know what I'm saying? Or what have you that would have changed mankind? You know, but the most high, all his decisions, are perfect, and so you know, I know people that are angry with the most high About all of that, like how you gonna hold us accountable For what this brother did? There know, people that are angry with the Most High about all of that, like how you going to hold us accountable for what this brother did? There are women that are upset with Eve, like, oh, I can't wait to get to heaven, I'm going to slap her.

Speaker 2: 1:00:19

It's stupid stuff like that, you know. Yeah, like, come on, man, we are here when we are. There has been a provision made on our behalf and it's up to us to seek it out, and the Most High is putting out His energy to draw us into it. But if we continue to reject it, then we're going to miss the boat. Right, and that was the story of Noah. Right there, they missed the boat all them years, for hundreds of years, noah was preaching it's gonna rain. They ain't never seen no rain before, never listened. They like oh you talking about something that we ain't never seen before and you say this is gonna happen. What makes us believe you? Because you was a drunk, right, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:01:09

Again, just a picture of what restoration look like yup, I was about to say that you don't ever know who the most high using man listen that's why we can't judge each other, bro, because we don't know the private conversations that one brother or sister is having with the most high cause they supposed to be private.

Speaker 2: 1:01:31

Yeah, and we don't know where they are in the process. All we know is what we see, man, all you see, and our vision isn't that clear in that way.

Speaker 1: 1:01:48

You know that's crazy. Just think about it. They like Noah man, like man Noah man. Shut up man. Nigga, you been drinking all like you say he on that tequila.

Speaker 1: 1:01:58

He drinking whole day just like how people be like man. You tell them like man, you know you ain't supposed to be eating that pork. Man, I been eating pork all my damn life. My grandma, that's how they did Noah nigga. You been drinking all your damn life. What make us think that shit gonna happen? You probably on some old drunk shit, nigga, whatever A hundred years of that, though, man.

Speaker 2: 1:02:20

Listen, brother, you know, I think we confuse the difference between public and private. We was talking about that prayer earlier. There's a difference between a public prayer and a private prayer. Yeah, yeah, there's a difference in between what we should ask for publicly and what we should ask for private. You know, and and and. So there's a difference between our public life and our private life. You know, so to speak, um and so I think we can fuse two, and many of us believe that we are the standard for what is right and wrong, and that's where we go wrong. That's really where we go wrong, because we no longer see ourselves being in the process.

Speaker 2: 1:03:07

Folks be reading scriptures, like the 82nd chapter of Psalms, and they see that God referenced beings being called gods, and they assume that he was talking about us. No, he wasn't talking about us. For those of you who think that he said, because he said he was judging them, we have not yet been judged because we're still alive, and so he was talking about those who he chose to be rulers in the earth, and because, if you look at the first and second verse in that chapter, you'll see that he was talking about how they were oppressing the people, that they were putting yokes around their necks, you know, and whatnot. And so those who are given a certain amount of governmental power and rulership and authority, they want worship. They want to be worshiped as the most high, as opposed to pointing people to the most high, and that's what that chapter was really talking about. You may live as gods, but you're going to die as me, right? And then you see Jesus. You know, in John come back to that same conversation with the scribes, the Pharisees and the Sadducees. And so it's foolish of us to think that we're gods, seeing as how Satan wanted to be above God. And that's what started all this foolishness. So you know, it's just man. We just got to have some clarity, bro. You know people are following. They want to go back into a lot of ancestry mumbo jumbo. I did it. You know we, we don't know as much about our culture as we could or should, but that's, that's biblical. It's biblical. You go look at it. But look at deuteronomy 28. You will see it right there.

Speaker 2: 1:05:09

But the remedy is getting back into the most high. You know, moses sung a song to them folk, and in that song it told us everything that was going to happen and what the remedy was. We need to turn back now. That's it. Turn back. Repentance is a physical turning around, but it also is a change of mind. It's a change of perspective, and so many folks don't want to change their mind. They feel like what they're doing is perfectly fine, even though they suffer, and I think our people have that real bad because we've been so desensitized to suffering that it doesn't allow for us to receive the suffering as a piece of change. Circumstance may never change, but if you change in the midst of a circumstance, then everything is different, right?

Speaker 1: 1:06:01

Yeah, so. So how do you feel about? How do you feel about, how do you feel about all these these brothers and sisters that's getting caught up in this Diddy scandal? And? And didn't they say that he was like they let him go or something like that? They released him or they found him not guilty, or they? I don't know, I don't even be following, I just seen it like on YouTube no, I think they just started deliberating.

Speaker 2: 1:06:31

The jury just started deliberating. That was over the last couple days, the last thing I heard. I'll say this man, if, if Satan had enough, what's the word I want to use? If he had enough, what's the word I want to use? If he had enough of an ego to tempt the son of man with all of all of the worldly riches and so forth and so on, then he'll do anybody that way.

Speaker 2: 1:07:00

And people want to have a good life, but they want good by the standard that they were taught by the world. Right, not what the Most High says is good, because the Most High don't. You know, he don't have no problem with us being rich. He allows Solomon to be rich. He allowed Abraham to be rich, you know. He allowed Job to be rich in his time, you know, and have an abundance, um.

Speaker 2: 1:07:30

But what we forget is that in order to have those things and maintain those things, it takes a certain kind of wisdom, you know, and that wisdom is not just necessarily, uh, something that's given out to people who believe in the most high. There are people who don't believe in the most high at all, that are rich, and so that's not necessarily what he wants us to have. Bible says he'll supply all our riches, you know, or he'll supply all our needs according to his riches and glory, all our needs according to his riches and glory, because there's no money in glory. Everything that happens in the heavenlies is based upon him and it's all based upon him. And so if he is the rich that we need, he's the richest that we need. David said man, I've never seen I've been young and I've been old but I've never seen. I've been young and I've been old, but I've never seen the righteous Forsaken, nor his seed begging.

Speaker 2: 1:08:29

And so we see that example Through people like Daniel, you know, who was willing to Not forsake what he knew he should do In honoring the Lord, and he was able to be prosperous, even in a foreign land. We see the same thing with Joseph. Joseph spent a little time in the joint, but when he got out he was second in command over all of Egypt, you know. And so riches is not the dictate for being blessed. It's not Money, earthly money. Money is something that the Lord allowed man to have and manage. But he don't need no money. He spoke the world into existence, so he can speak anything into being or not being, and so if we have him and a relationship with him, then we can have anything that he wants us to have, right?

Speaker 2: 1:09:25

And I think we just we fail to see the worth in that. You know, they've showed us so many animated and imaginative things throughout our lifetime that now we find it hard to believe, right, you know Superman, he-man, she-ra, you know all those different kinds of things, and so we find it imaginary. But, man, we've never in our lives seen something come from nothing. Nothing that we can ever touch came from nothing, right? So why do we think we came from nothing? That's a huge question I got for people, especially the atheist people, you know, like that's foolish.

Speaker 1: 1:10:13

Well, they'll try to science that away. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 1:10:18

Well, yeah, and they will. But even when I speak with them, I allow them to know that science is the result of something, and so you know. Again, it just proves that nothing can come from nothing. Everything has to have a start point.

Speaker 1: 1:10:38

And is this touching back on some of the things you were just talking about? Yeah, I do believe that you can only amass that type of wealth and fame from doing some wicked stuff. You know what I'm saying and something satanic like you gotta like, because, think about it, like you said, joseph had to go through something to rise to the level where he was at and it was because the most high had to test that ass and see and he had to pay a penance to. But when you do, when you in a righteous manner and you doing righteous things, like you see a brother's struggle, you see a sister struggle and then you see they update, they rising up, you see they uprise with these brothers and stuff like that. You don't see the struggle, you just see the uprise. And then you just see all the things that they, they talk about and they glorify and they music and they, they act in it and all the things that they do and and and it's like, okay, it's appeasing, but you like people be want to be rich and famous and stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 1:11:51

But you don't know, like a lot of these brothers is giving up their butthole and let's just be real, like like they're giving it up, like I'm saying they're giving up their butthole and they they love and let's just be real they mouth too, and and, and and and. We've seen it, we've been knowing it for years, but now it's starting to be more prevalent with this whole diddy thing. You know, I'm saying it's more. It's starting to like, shed more light, like, and it's like people starting to come out and like oh man, he was like, and some of the some of the list is like man what. Some of the list is like man what. Because my thing is, if you was at a Diddy party and you stayed and you seen what was going on and you stayed, you participated Pretty much. So you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 1:12:35

Yeah, martin Luther King said, you know, if not saying something about something that's wrong is's participation, pretty much, that's, you know, uh, just a breakdown of what he said. That's not exactly what he said, but, uh, you, you make yourself culpable. And so, um, it's crazy, man. Um, the book of proverbs deals with that kind of stuff. I think probably within the first three or four chapters it talks about a group of people that are going to tell you, come on, let's go and do all this devilishness and take all we can Right, and that how we need to stay away from them. You know, I was taught as a young man I don't have to steal nothing. I don't have to steal nothing If I can't get it by ordinary means, I probably don't need to have it. And so, um, there's another, another verse, I think, in the book of john, where jesus talks about, uh, him being the, the door or the gate of the sheep pen, and he says, hey, if you go, uh, any other way other than through the gate, then you're a thief and a robber. And so, you know, we need to go to the most high for what we have. But the most high is is not wasteful. And so he don't want to bless us with nothing that we're going to waste, and so he wants us to be able to be a blessing to the world and to other people. Blessing to the world and to other people and I mean a real blessing, not, uh, cover up necessarily, uh, uh, people's indiscretions per se, but to really be helpful. An example I'll use is you know, sometimes people call and they ask for money sometimes and it's because they've mismanaged their finance and so they want you to pay their light bill because, uh, because they didn't do right with their money, right, you know, are you really helping them? No, the service. Are you really helping them? You know, because what a help is them lights being off for a month? Yeah, and the struggle that they're gonna go through, you know, with that.

Speaker 2: 1:14:39

Um, I think the other thing is there's different kinds of struggle. The bible says after you have struggled a little while, after you struggle a little while, then you'll be restored. And so struggling for, in my opinion, struggling for the cause of Christ is different than the struggle of of you being whooped or chastised into submission. Right, it's a difference. There are some, some struggles we go through that are trying to promote us to come to the most high, and then there are struggles that we go through as a as a result of serving the most high. Yeah, and so there there are differences. You know, to me, right, right.

Speaker 1: 1:15:21

And it is a big difference, definitely so. Do you feel like some of the things that and I know that you don't really vote or nothing like that, or politics really ain't your thing, but do you feel like some of the excuse me y'all? Do y'all feel I done ate these salt vinegar chips, right, and they just like the salt is just really like getting to my lips, my bad. Y'all feel I don't eat these salt vinegar chips Right, and they just like salt is just really like get to my lips so it's kind of messing me up. But do y'all feel, do you feel like what the orange man, some of the policies and things that the orange man is practicing and pushing out, orange man is practicing and pushing out Do you think they are helpful to not just the black people but America, period?

Speaker 2: 1:16:11

Well, I think they're helpful to the government. They're helpful to the government. I'll touch this and then drop off of it. But very often, when a government is doing well, the people are not, because the things that benefit the government don't benefit the people and the things that benefit the people don't benefit the government. And so, uh, the Bible says that the governments will be on the shoulder of the Messiah, but it's not because, but it's not like how we use the analogy of, uh, I'm standing on the shoulders of my grandfather or my father. That means I'm building on top of the foundation that was laid before me. They're not doing that. They're pressing down to press him out, you know. And so they're pressing down to press him out, you know. And so they're doing what's beneficial to them, not what's beneficial for us. Because if they were, then the things that they promoted in society would be things that were all healthy, all healthy.

Speaker 2: 1:17:21

We can look at some of our country counterparts. I'll use China, for example. The tick tock that we see is not the tick tock. They see, all of the things that are there, are for them, are there to make them productive members of society, to make them contributors to society, and it's all healthy stuff, yeah, you know, and I'm not saying they're better than we are, but they understand that the more people want to make a contribution to what's happening, as opposed to being capitalistic, then everybody can benefit, right, not just one person. But capitalism teaches us that you've got to step on somebody in order to be able to make it, you know, and so, yeah, so I don't. I think there are some things that maybe are beneficial, right, but the vast majority of things, no. It's not good that people go hungry. You know, if you want them to do better, then you got to give them something to promote them to do better, and other than just suffering alone.

Speaker 1: 1:18:33

Right, you know you can't create reasons for crime right, and I think that's what he's doing too like. I you know I support some of the things, like not support, but I agree with some of the things he's doing. But some of the things is like, bro, you trying to start some shit, he trying to start some shit, and I think he's trying to do it because you know he only got four of them things to do it like I'm saying, saying so.

Speaker 2: 1:19:01

Well, you know in in this society. What we have seen from the very beginning to now has been a progression right in a progression of plans in order to get things at a certain place, right for a certain reason. Right, because the devil moves with purpose as well. He ain't doing nothing for no reason, right, and so I would say that this is a preparation for more. Everything has been a preparation for more since George Washington all the way to now, right, and so it's incumbent on us to prepare ourselves for what's coming, and it has nothing to do with our humanity. It has everything to do with our spirituality in terms of the most high. That's the only preparation you can really make, right, because there's going to be a lack of food. There's going to be you to be changes in how things are. We saw a small portion of what a new normal looks like to cope. So imagine that on steroids yeah, if that's on steroids and how it played on people's mental health, then we're in for a doozy. Yeah, we're in for a doozy, we're in for a doozy.

Speaker 2: 1:20:25

And listen, spiritual wickedness is all around us, bro, and we just need to wake up. Wake up, yeah, all this divisiveness and stuff, and they want to keep us denominated. They want to keep us denominated. They want to keep us denominated, right sect sected out and stuff like that, because if we can get together and get some sense of unified movement, we'll be dangerous out here yeah, a force to be reckoned with, you know. And so they want to keep us denominated. They pump up certain leaders and put them as adversaries against each other so that we can't come together. Some of these folks that we see are stool pitchers, real, talk straight stool pitchers. Man right, I'm not gonna call no name, I'm just saying come over my stool pitch this bitch bitch a truth man Call him out.

Speaker 1: 1:21:23

I always do, nah.

Speaker 2: 1:21:24

I ain't calling nobody out. I ain't been released to call nobody's name. But if we pay attention, if we pay close attention, we can see the devices. We can see the devices. Okay, you know, I'll go for one. I'll give one.

Speaker 2: 1:21:43

My heart was broken to see that one of the pastors in Georgia had been started to boycott a target and that it was being very effective. And then and this pastor is a pastor of a Baptist church and then the National Baptist Convention decides to go around where he did and take some money from Target and support them. That's foolish. That's foolish. Who in the heck are y'all thinking about? It sounds like you're only thinking about yourself. And that was a cheap $300,000. It's really cheap, right? That's really cheap in comparison to the amount of money that they lost by us doing this boycott.

Speaker 2: 1:22:29

You know so, man, we just have to be willing to stand for what's righteous. That's what's right to us, but what's righteous? You know what I'm saying. And until that happens, man, we're not going to see no change. We're going to keep losing our young men. We're going to keep losing our daughters and our sisters. The foolery, you know. Lives just being lost. You know what? You saw another brother kill a sister on Facebook. Don't lie. Don't lie. You know like hey, man, we got you. These things, man, are completely ungodly and they come from a deranged frame of mind. That's where they come from. These are animalistic things and we're supposed to be above animals, but we're acting like animals.

Speaker 1: 1:23:21

Man, that's another one. Though what was it about? Man, that's another one though.

Speaker 2: 1:23:25

What was it about, man? Some foolery, some foolery. He was cheating on his girl with this woman, and because the side piece got upset and started making noise on Facebook, he drove from Texas back to Louisiana somewhere and basically held the family hostage and then killed the girl on live. Now he gone. Now she gone. Now he can't be with either one of them. Women for real, you know. And so, man, it's just, it's crazy man.

Speaker 2: 1:24:02

The Lord wants to change our spirit and our mind. You know, be not conformed to the ways of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. You know, or Hebrews 12, 1 through 3. You know, he's saying man, look, look to the one who took the joy that was set before him and didn't despise the shame but was willing to go to the cross on our behalf. And so we got to get our point of view together. Man, you know, I know that there are some people who think I'm a Bible thumper.

Speaker 2: 1:24:33

I take that willingly. I'm okay with that If that's what you want to call me. That's what's up. I take that as a salute more than anything else, because I let the world thump the hell out of me while I was out there, hitting it like that. It thumped the hell out of me. I say that again because it did. It took me away from things, from people, from places, from things, from aspirations and dreams, from success and some of everything else, because I wanted to be recognized by the people around me. More than anything else, I want to streak credit and all that other kind of foolish. It ain't worth a dime, because them people can't do nothing for you and when you at your worst, they're not going to be there for you. They're not. They're going to think about themselves, only about themselves, right.

Speaker 2: 1:25:25

They're not. They're going to think about themselves, only about themselves, yeah, yeah, only thing they're going to do is try to inherit whatever you left behind your wife, your money, your house, your car, your clothes, you know, aw, man, it ain't work. Something has to change and we got to insist in our own personal lives that it change. And if it does, once our lives personally start to change, we'll start seeing things change around us, because you'll start enough. Start seeing who really ain't feeling you for real and never was Right. Once you start making a choice for the most high food, people will fall off your tree.

Speaker 1: 1:26:08

ASAP and be claiming it as you Are. You acting funny. Oh, you done got that Bible now. You done got God now. You done found God now. Or you moving this way, you moving that, Bro. I just need better for myself and my family. That's what it is Like. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 1:26:29

Yeah, I've just seen the error of my ways, brother, and that's all there is to it. No judgment on nobody else, because my sins have been forgiven, right, and I still got sin going. You know what I mean. I'm, I'm not, um, I'm not free from sin in the aspect of that. I don't, uh, make bad choices or I don't do things that go against the law and the word of god, right? You know what I mean. However, uh, I believe that I'm better than I have been and that I'm getting better than I am, and, and so, you know, through the grace of God, through his grace of mercy, but that don't make me perfect I'm better than no one else, but I'm not worthy, but I am worth it to the most high, no, and so that's that's what's important to me. Uh, that's that's just what's important to me. Man, for the sake of my family, my loved one and my friends, I want to see everybody saved, even my worst enemy. I want to see him saved, because it, because it's here for them.

Speaker 1: 1:27:36

They want it right and that's what life is about. Man Like just want to see the good in everybody and good happen to everybody. You know even the enemies. Man Like you know definitely so. Do you have any brothers or sisters?

Speaker 2: 1:28:04

you know, um, I got a younger brother under under me that's four years younger than myself, a sister that's eight years under me, uh, a set of twin brothers that are 22 years younger than me. And then, uh, I want to say wait, you should be 18 now. And I got an 18 year old brother okay, what's up, man?

Speaker 1: 1:28:26

nice ass, family, yeah, man. So what was some of the fondest like memories you had, like when you was younger you know, I know all your siblings weren't there with you, but like the closest ones, like you know, what was some of the fondest memories you had of your childhood?

Speaker 2: 1:28:48

Man, family vacation, family vacation, what was the best one, oh, I don't know. Well, the one that we look forward to the most, I think, was Thanksgiving, you know, period in November. Or we would drive from Chicago, where I'm originally from, down know period in November, or we would drive from Chicago, where I'm originally from, down Nashville, tennessee, man, and it was just a slew of us, you know, the car line would be like maybe eight or 10 cars long. You know, we leave about three, thirty four o'clock in the morning, make it to Indianapolis and go to Shoney's and eat, you know that big old breakfast, and then we would keep on going and get there about two o'clock, ok, and then about four or five o'clock we'd be eating dinner together.

Speaker 2: 1:29:34

And the special part of it was that there was always a prayer circle. Yeah, and in this prayer circle one of the preachers in the family would pray and then, after he prayed, everybody would quote a Bible verse of their own. And that just man that stuck with me so heavy, right, so heavy, and it was just man. You know, in my adulthood I find it to just be a huge blessing, bro, that they would even challenge us to have a verse of some sort. Yeah, right.

Speaker 1: 1:30:11

Okay, so that kept y'all on y'all toes. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 1:30:14

Man, it just kept us together. Man, you know it's hard after your elders start to leave. Yeah, people, you know they were kind of the centerpiece, so things get a little scattered. I thank god that we we still come together every couple of years or so.

Speaker 1: 1:30:30

Right, and keep it going, though, right and that's a beautiful thing, man, that y'all able to still, you know, keep rocking it. Because, man, I, you know my family I really don't even deal with them for real, for real, like my, like my mother's side of the family. After she passed, like I really I kind of broke off from them and then when my father passed, it was just like yeah, I don't like I'm saying, but I still like reconnect with my father's side every once in a while, like they have like family breakfasts and stuff like that monthly that they do. So I'm trying to get in the loop of that. But other than that, like yeah, I get what you're saying, man, definitely. Man, family is, you know, when y'all are praying together, y'all are building together, y'all are vacationing together, like that's the biggest thing, like y'all going on vacations and just letting loose. And you know what I'm saying, like I ain't worried about nothing, y'all just doing, y'all having fun, enjoying each other's time and and and the season for it.

Speaker 2: 1:31:30

Like you know, our praises, like definitely yeah, man, you know, uh, I, one thing that, man, I love about my family is that there was very little dysfunction in our gathering. Okay, you know what I mean. You know how sometimes folks can't get together without it being some dysfunction going on, right, you know, arguing and fussing and fighting, and our situation just wasn't like that. It was just a lot of love, man, and just people being happy to see each other and sharing cross-generational. You know, um, I did grow up kind of old school, so they, they definitely kept children in their place. You know, um, children couldn't sit amongst the adults and, you know, participate in their conversations and stuff on a certain level. You know what I mean. But even that was a blessing because it kept us from getting hip to stuff that we wasn't ready for, right? You know, now these kids can pull it up on the internet and find out everything they want to know without us telling them, right.

Speaker 1: 1:32:37

Man Ain't got to tell them nothing, it's just all on at their fingertips. Now that they they can get information like that, they seem to think they know more than us and shit. Like you know what I'm saying. And that's when you gotta knock them down on a peg every once in a while, like you know. But uh, that's what's up. Man like I, I just like when I had, when I was younger, like, yeah, we had, we had some good times. Man was younger, was younger. We had family trips, family get-togethers, family reunions and stuff like that. Those were definitely some good times. You get older and things don't always stay the same. You make your own family and your own memories and stuff like that. That's right. Yeah, definitely that's right.

Speaker 1: 1:33:26

Yeah, Sure man. So, bro, you said that you've been working on some projects and you've got the ministry. Let people know where you can get your stuff at or even peer into what you're doing, like your links, your social media links and all that good stuff like that yeah, man, uh, facebook is is pope jr um, uh, youtube is fred pope jr um.

Speaker 2: 1:33:55

You can see a few things there, man. Um, I haven't been doing this this past year or two. I've kind of only been focusing on live music, um, because I do more live music and so I haven't been doing as much recording at home and production. Um, at least on my personal stuff. I've made contributions to other people's things, um, and you know, in my areas of specificity, so to speak, right, um, what have you, and, uh, and so and I really can't, I'm not allowed to really share either you know whose, uh, whose projects I've made contributions on, kind of was a, an agreement, I took the money instead of the credit, right, right, right, and so you know non-disclosure kind of situation.

Speaker 2: 1:34:39

But I've made contributions to quite a few people's stuff, even just in the area, man, of tutelage in terms of, you know, them, learning how to play keys and or vocal training and stuff like that, man. So I'm kind of behind the scenes, man, not necessarily really trying to make a name for myself, man, I just want to be effective in whatever it is that I do, right, no matter what, and when my time comes, if it comes, then it'll come. But, like I said, my concentration has really solely been about the ministry. Man, that's most important to me, because I feel like that's my life's purpose, and the music is more of a platform to be able to display that more than anything else. And so, right, when the time comes, um, I'm gonna combine the two in order to man, try to go after some souls, bro, that's where I'm at, oh yeah reach a broader here, reach a broader, uh, genre and, uh, this demographic of people.

Speaker 1: 1:35:42

Yeah, I get it.

Speaker 1: 1:35:43

I get it, man, definitely man, it's been, it's been a beautiful deal, man. Like you know, I, we, we always like, every time we get on the on the phone, and we, we had those builds, man, and it is, I always get something from it. Like you know, I'm saying I, and that's what makes you such a special brother, is that, you know, even though you don't be trying to teach, you be teaching and you, you know, and, and, and the contribution that you have given to me, and not just me, but many others, and you know the, the, the, the, the, the, the nation. So, bro, you keep on doing your thing, man, and, and, and, and, really, just, you know, keep pushing and grinding for the most high man, cause that's what you are doing, man, and we, and your efforts have not gone unnoticed, not by the people, at least by the people that love you, knowing you, and love you and respect you. We, we see you, we see what's going on, and I'm just here to give you your flyers while you can smell them, bro.

Speaker 2: 1:36:56

So man, I appreciate that man. God be praised man. It's all about him really oh yeah um, not, not about me, man. I'm asking for more of him and less of me. For real, for real, for real, right? Um, I'm just a small example of how great he can, he can be and, uh, how he can make some adjustments. You know, take your name from the bottom of the list to the top of the list, even though nobody knows your name uh-huh, right, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:37:23

So, yeah, man, I definitely, man, what you, what you want to let the people know, man, before we get on out of here, man, because I don't like holding the people too long. I know they listening and it's a good building and we got many other bills to go and, uh, many other episodes, but I just, you know, try to keep it under a certain time frame because I don't want people to get bud. You know black folk here, man. After after 30 minutes, man, they drop off like so, yeah, go ahead, tell them what you want to know bro man, I just want you to know that, that god loves you, that I love you, and that there is more.

Speaker 2: 1:38:00

But it requires change. You can't stay the same and get a different result. It just doesn't work like that, you know, and we can apply some of the principles that the ungodly have used, because they're trying to use godly principles in an ungodly way Right, and they've received some success because they were trying to follow the principle without having the principle in mind, a personal principle in mind, and so if we will get past this thing where we don't want to read, we don't want to try to understand, nowadays we can listen to scripture, you know. The other thing I want to share is is that I'm a visually impaired musician, producer and preacher.

Speaker 2: 1:38:43

Thing I want to share is is that I'm a visually impaired musician, producer and preacher, and so I do all of this without necessarily having a full visual view of everything. I have to remember the scripture in order to be able to kick it out, you know, um, and, and, and I'm depending on the Holy spirit to be able to give me and bring it back to my remembrance, but I have to swallow it in order to regurgitate it, and so I believe that if we're willing to walk without paying so much attention to what we see, then we'll make a big difference. We'll make a big difference Because change is right in front of us. Man, it really is, and that's what I want the people to know. God loves you. It really is, and that's what I want the people to know. God loves you, I love you, and that it's available to you, just want to come and get it.

Speaker 2: 1:39:28

Just come get it, come get it. I'm telling you you will not be disappointed, because ain't nothing in the world you feel like what the most I can do, gotcha, gotcha.

Speaker 1: 1:39:39

So hey, like I said, man, y'all enjoy y'all day. This your boy Aviyah, my bad y'all. I'm gonna eat this salt really good my bad. But this, your boy Aviyah, on the Spit your Truth podcast, and my brother Fred Pope, we on here, man, and he just spit his truth. He gave y'all a little insight and he dropped some jewels for y'all, man. So check us out on Wednesday, every Wednesday at 12 pm Eastern Standard Time.

Speaker 1: 1:40:14

Be hitting y'all with new episodes, more interviews. You might even do a cypher. I don't know, man, I'm about to go viral, not viral, hopefully, I go viral when I start doing the videos, but I'm about to start doing the videos and you know visual podcasts and I'ma still do my audio, man, cause I, you know, I like listening to them when I'm driving down the highway myself, like. So all praise, man. I'm going to try to hit y'all with a double banger and keep the music coming, but we built, we built, we built, we came, we saw, we conquered. All praise for the most. How does your boy be on the speech of truth podcast hosted, and you know, uh, now we are now hosted, and and we are now hosted and backed by the Simon Studios. Simon Studios, that's where we will be doing our podcast, that's where y'all on entertainment's home base is and we are getting it in for some of y'all.

Speaker 1: 1:41:11

So all praise to the most high brother. We thank you, man, for coming on here and just blessing us with the knowledge, man, blessing us with the fruits and the jewels. Man, we really needed it. Bro, like you're a breath of fresh air. We glad that there's a lot of brothers, there's brothers like you out here. That's teaching the word and being honest and being transparent and being man and saying, hey, I mess up too, y'all, I mess up too. So, hey, stay humble, bro, stay humble, keep preaching the word, keep letting the freedom back to the most high and, uh, hey, have a good, blessed day, bro, good man grace and peace to you, bro all praises man.

Speaker 1: 1:41:53

Y'all have a good day, man. Peace Bye.