April 2026

We get together with vocalist and bassist Cyril the Wolf and talk how to go about arranging video game music as rock tracks!

Track list:

Interstitial music - Dancing in Kokiri Bottom; Audio Mocha; The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time

0:00 - Ruby Distortions; PirateCrab; Sonic Mania

1:56 - Wing Men; Hemophiliac; Star Fox

5:02 - Prog Wrong/Enmity; gravitygauntlet; ValiDate: Struggling Singles in Your Area

9:52 - Dunes of the Lost; GlacialSpoon; Star Fox 2

13:33 - Rock and Ice; Rockos, gravitygauntlet, KezyCP; Star Fox Adventures

20:50 - Playing Cracy (with the 6th Blockade); The Vodou Queen; Star Fox 64

25:30 - Now Boarding Flight 6 to Venom; Lucas Guimaraes, DS Music, sschafi1, Emunator, Ridley Snipes; Star Fox 64

28:28 - Boundless Skies; ZackParrish, Gamer of the Winds, TSori; Star Fox

32:54 - Star Fox Capture Plan; Eltwish; Star Fox 64

39:02 - Unmoored, Undeserved; Michael Hudak; Neon White

44:35 - Boess Bossanova (Bossanova Mix); TheManPF, DeLuxDolemite, jnWake, Riley Zielinski, Ronin Op F, Sybil Grace, Xander Plute, Zach Chapman; Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest

49:11 - Token Tango (Tango Mix); TheManPF, angrypolarbear, Bryan Alvarez, Ronin Op F, ThisIsJayC; Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest

1:31:56 - War Never Changes; Mega Man ZX; Cyril the Wolf

2:04:53 - Corridors of Time; Yasunori Mitsuda; Chrono Trigger

2:06:30 - stratification; melody; Chrono Trigger

2:18:40 - Exploda; Fishy, Cyril the Wolf; Final Fantasy IX

2:41:25 - Hope for the Future; WillRock; Wild Arms

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:35

Hello and welcome to the Overclock Remix Podcast, the best way to catch up on OCR news and new music while hunting mavericks and looking for light capsules. This is episode number 18, which means this podcast is now able to vote. Or something. My name is Zach, and I think the Mega Man X games are easier than the classic Mega Man games. Sure, they're faster, so you need better reaction times, but you have so many more movement options between the Dash and the Vault line that you don't really need the level of precision demanded by the classic series. This month, we've got about 45 minutes of newish music. I say newish because while we have a couple of straight up new tracks, we also have a bunch of tracks from recent albums. And also one track that really should have been on a recent album, but wasn't for reasons I don't know. Which track? Well, you'll just have to keep listening. Not much to talk about in the way of news this month. Several album projects are moving along, but there's just not that much to say. Let's just move right along to new releases. Followed by Frog Rong slash Enmity by Gravity Gauntlet from Validate, Struggling Singles in Your Area. After that was Dunes of the Lost by Glacial Spoon from Star Fox 2, and finally, Rock and Ice by Rocos, Gravity Gauntlet, and Izzy C P from Star Fox Adventures. Pretty good. Three of the tracks were from the Star Fox album Double Wing Damage that came out a couple of months ago. But I don't think we played them in full on the podcast. That first one, Iliak, I really enjoyed sort of a synth slash wave track, and it really reminds me of this movie I really enjoyed as a kid called Light of the Navigator. This one really takes you.

SPEAKER_06 21:04

No problems.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

Alright, that last block was Playing Crazy with the Sixth Blockade by The Voodoo Queen from Star Fox Sixty Four. After that was Snowboarding Flight Six to Venom by Lucas Guimare's DS Music Sathy One. Please hit me up if you know how to pronounce that better. Emulator and Ridley Snipes from Star Fox 64. After that was Boundless Skies by Zack Parrish, Gamer of the Winds, and T Sorry. And finally, Star Fox Capture Plan by Eltwish from Star Fox 64. And it's that Eltwish track that I really need to call out here because that's our Star Fox track that for some reason isn't on double wing damage. I don't know why. I really enjoy the track though. Apparently the name is a one that I didn't realize. There's a Japanese jazz rock trio called Fox Capture Plan. And I mean from there I think that the song just writes itself. Uh really enjoyed this track. I'm definitely going to be checking out Fox Capture Plan. Uh also really want to shout out, I mean, all the tracks in this vlog. The sound effects in the Voodoo Queens track uh super great. Especially because did you know you can find an R Wing in Ocarina of Time? It is true. Uh I think we need a Game Shark or some kind of, you know, uh hackery. But that's why I guess you have Zelda sound effects and also Star Fox sound effects in that same track. Uh now boarding Flight 6 to Venom was really vibey and a little jazzy. And it's interesting, the airplane noises really put me into this sort of liminal space that I don't associate with the mellow vibes I got from this track. Boundless Skies now. Uh really catchy baseline, first of all. But also, the song just feels like flying. Uh I feel like it really incorporates a lot of JRPG airship songwriting techniques. But with Star Fox motifs, it's almost, but not quite, like a Skies of Arcadia slash Star Fox Masho. Um I need to write that down. Uh copyrighted right here, right now by me. I'm taking that idea and running with it. Let's move along. Our last block is a short one. We started off with Unmoored, Undeserved by Michael Hudak from Neon White. After that was Boss Bossa Nova, Bossa Nova mix, by a whole bunch of people, but arranged by The Man PF and featuring performances by Deluxe Dolomite, JN Wake, Riley Zelinski, Ronan Opf, Sybil Grace, Xander Plut, and Zach Chapman. And that's from Donkey Kong Country 2. And after that we had another The Man PF track, Token Tango, Tango Mix. Again arranged by The Man PF, but featuring Angry Polar Bear, Brian Alvarez, Ronan Opf, and this is JC, again from Donkey Kong Country 2.

SPEAKER_03 53:03

We had back-to-back monkey music from The Man PF, uh, and I should really mention that both of these tracks were originally featured on the Mega Mix album, feature-linked Donkey Kong Country Array.

SPEAKER_02 53:16

If it's a great album, I highly recommend check it out. And also, my god the production quality Donkey Steel Track, uh the Steel Guitar in the Bozinoki track. I absolutely adore steel guitar here in the first content. And then Tokyo Tango is an interesting one. It's an Argentinian-style tango, which uh my familiarity with tango really begins and ends at the 1991 movie of the Adams family.

SPEAKER_03 53:48

Uh so it was interesting getting school looking into Genesis of the track on Jolito style. So this one is Argentina. That's an instrument you thought you heard? That's what about uh unboard dessert on. Uh we're not gonna play the game because it's an interesting first-person trick for whatever value. Um it's a little experimental. Let's call it a bunch of black.

SPEAKER_04 54:33

I don't like it now.

SPEAKER_03 54:40

A couple of months ago. Let's do a segment. I brought up with remixer Mega Man Fanatic, vocalist, bassist, and all around nice guys. Overwhelm, to talk about arranging video game music for Rock, and I had so much fun making out that I forgot to even ask him to introduce himself.

SPEAKER_02 55:01

So consider this his introduction, and now let's go chat with him about honestly, mostly Mega Man, but then a little bit about arranging rock music. That isn't exclusively Mega Man, but we talk about that a lot too. Yeah, I was like, oh yeah, I'll just have a join and we can like we can chat to our heart's content, and I'll just edit it down later, so you know, whatever. Four hours later. No. Uh you laugh, but like the first time I did this was for the um uh the Time Shift album, and like uh Larry and Colorado Weeks and uh oh god, Diluck, and like four other people joined. Uh uh, both Seth and Josh. Um and uh Yeah, we just like chatted until two in the morning, and then you know, later I was like, oh no, now I have to edit this down. What have I done to myself? Oh, mistakes were made. Yeah, that's how how's this for uh a segue? Uh man, I loved the Mega Man X theme at Magfest this year.

SPEAKER_01 56:14

Yeah, me too. Oh god. I didn't buy as much of the Magfest merch, but man, I did love the Mega Man X theme. I liked the Bit Brigade's Mega Man X performances. That was fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 56:23

Oh, that was uh that end, um I've been a huge fan of the Megas for I don't know, years and years and years and years. Uh and getting to actually see the Megas on stage was huge for me.

SPEAKER_01 56:35

Oh, nice, yeah, yeah. I I man, I'm so because I was staff Magfest and then they play Magfest a bunch because they're the Megas, you know, but um not every year, obviously, but I've seen them perform so many times. I've done sound for them a few times now, so it's just like, oh it's the Megas. But I have to remember, you know, that's that's a kind of a privilege like there's a privilege to that, uh versus Yeah, this was actually my first Magfest.

SPEAKER_02 57:01

Um just uh most years I'm either like, oh, I used up my vacation seeing family for Christmas. Oh right. Yeah, of course. You know, that kind of thing. Um so th this was or just like I I don't have the time or the energy to go travel to uh D the DC area right now. For sure. Um this year I made a point of like I'm gonna save up my PTO and I am going to go and I am going to really enjoy myself at Magfest and meet up with some OCR people, and then you know, the only person I actually ended up meeting up with was Zalif.

SPEAKER_01 57:39

But you know, you know Zalif is cool. The funny thing is I met Xalif and I hung out with him last Magfest. This Magfest, I had his number, everything stuff happened, I never saw him.

SPEAKER_02 57:52

It was so funny, because like um Yeah, you'll appreciate this. So uh we had like uh talked with each other on Discord and like uh we had posted each other's pictures at some point, so we knew what each other looked like. Uh and then at Magfest itself, like we didn't exchange phone numbers, and also I I don't know about everyone else, but my phone got basically no signal there. Like the the cell network was just completely overloaded. Um and then so I you know I was like, oh, I've got I've got a little downtime in my con schedule right now. Ooh, they're speedrunning Mega Man X4. That's one of my favorites. And I go in there and I sit down, I look to my right, and there's Zela. It's like, oh that's that's perfect.

SPEAKER_01 58:41

Couldn't have planned it better. So it's rare that that happens. I mean, it happens at Magfest now, it's rarer now just because of how massive it is. That's but that's why like um people were always like, you gotta come to VGM Con. Because that's how Magfest used to be. It was just like you walk three inches, you're not even planning to see somebody, and then all of a sudden you start talking for 30 minutes. Catch you know, hanging out, catching up with people that you've either wanted to meet or have met in the past and haven't talked to or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 59:10

Yeah. Yeah, I definitely um uh I had a couple of experiences at VGM Con where I'd just be like hanging out with someone and we're both just like killing time or whatever, having a conversation, talking about music. And then like I discover, oh wait, I've been listening to your music for 20 years. I didn't even whoops.

SPEAKER_01 59:29

Yeah, yeah, that's I mean, that was how I felt when I met funnily enough. I mean, I met Uamatsu back at Magfest ages and ages ago. But like that's something. Yeah, yeah. So that was that's it's a picture's done my phone. I've got it archived in a billion spots, you know, uh me and him whatever um times, but I'm just trying to remember who I love your stuff, man. I didn't know you still were around. Um you'd think I would remember, but it it was at VGM Con and it literally just so many people. Um it's funny because sometimes it's like, well, I'll never talk to them again. So I'll keep that in my heart that I met that person, check that box off, but I think I'm also bad with names horrendously. So I'm gonna stop this podcast. Like, hey, can I ADR in Oh gosh? So um yeah, no, names and faces is great. This community is great. I mean everybody's really welcoming anyway. So it's a lot it's very good.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:32

I will say it it definitely helps that like I I hadn't met this person before this year. Um like I've been hanging out in the community and I've been, you know, chatting with people on Discord and and God, I used to hang out on IRC and uh I was obnoxious at the time because I was like 21. 21 Yeah. So like I you know, I I have been on the periphery of this community, or at least like in the chat rooms and on the forums for um so so like that helped me through like getting too starstruck, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh wait, but like I've been chatting, I've been like swapping memes with this person for five years. I don't I don't need to be starstruck.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

Yeah, yeah, that also helps because like I'm at Stemage, um, but I was hanging out in their chat room and it was a lot easier to just be like, hey man, how's it going, dude?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:27

I didn't get to meet Stemage, but I saw his pinball panel, and that was that was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:35

I didn't know there was such rad pinball game music.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:38

I like I I left that panel thinking, oh my god, I already have such like weird niche musical interests. I didn't need pinball music added to that.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:49

I know, it's like I cannot take the time to listen to more obscure music. I mean, I'm gonna, but I don't need it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:02

Oh yeah, I uh I wanted to ask. Um I remember your uh your live set of VGM Con, you did a Mega Man ZX change, uh ZX track. Was it in fact War Never Changes? It is. Okay, yeah, I thought so. I thought so. I was like, wait a second. This is a Mega Man Z X track. This track I'm fairly sure I heard live, but I thought I also thought like, wait, am I just mixing it up? Is is this recency bias?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:29

Fair, but also no, I mean it that's the catch 22 kind of of uh of doing live sets and stuff, because you usually want to play your most recent stuff, and that's realistically my most recently released track, so want to put it in a live set. Also, it's a banger, as it were.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:49

Yeah, oh yeah, fantastic track. Like I um I need to get around to playing Mega Man ZX. Like I I adored the Mega Man Zero series, and I just never played the ZX games. There were what, two of them?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:02

There are two of them. They were on the DS. Yeah. So that's already like because I you know, for as many people had the Game Boy Advance, not so much the DS.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:10

I yeah, I just completely missed the ZX games, and I I've heard they're great. Uh and obviously obviously the music is fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:18

Yeah, the music's good because it's Anycreate, so it's the same people who did um the Z Zero series. So it's a very very similar. I mean, if you listen to it, it's got very similar vibes. I mean it's a little different, obviously, because ZX has a brighter vibe in general, um, story-wise and everything. I mean, it's obviously got it's I called the track War Never Changes for a reason. Uh because same crap Mega Man gets up to. Um, I will say if you do play Mega Man ZX, use a guide. They tried to do a Metroidvania type thing, and it's not, they didn't do a very good job. But if you know where you're going, it's fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:56

That's what that's what I remember reviews saying back in the day, like, so in a Mega Man game, you die and you go back to either the beginning of the level or like right before the boss or some checkpoint, and it's you know, you eventually through repetition get the level down pad, and you're fine, and it's not a big hassle. But in Mega Man ZX, since it's like gigantic Metroidvania style open areas, dying is actually really, really frustrating.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:27

I well, yeah, so I played it on the Legacy Collection, um, and I think there's like extra checkpoints.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:33

Oh, that's oh, that's that's good. I've see, I already picked up the legacy collection just for the zero games. Yeah. And have like I have no excuse for not diving into ZX other than the time. Uh so it's good to know that they improved the experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:50

Yeah, absolutely. Um but I mean it's but the map still sucks. That's the that's the biggest thing. ZX ZX had been improved on the map, the but it's I think overall a weaker game somewhat. But that's a uh the music's all good though, thankfully. Like it's it's it's pretty rad. I'm still I want to because I've done now three ZX tracks, and um I have an album on Overclocked remix of X and Zero tracks.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:19

Yes. What uh what was it called? X Over Zero? X Over Zero. Which I've always wondered, is that an algebra joke?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:25

Yes. It absolutely is. Uh because I should have written it down, but I literally was like trying to think of titles um of the album. And Mega Man Metal was DJP's idea to like maybe market it better, probably. But X Over Zero was the I did it so from Mega Man Zero to Intro track is Endless Fight, uh and then it that's the intro cutscene to the track. And then it goes into departure first stage um very iconic if you're into the series. Yes. So I was like, I absolutely need to cover this. Well, first of all, the melody's a banger anyway. Like if you're if it's Mega Man, the melody's a banger. Oh, yeah. You know this. Uh but um, so I wanted to do, I was like, oh, I'll do it like a it's a like the flip because what ended up happening in the course of doing all these arrangements and the record I ended up coming out with was oh, the first four songs are X, the last songs are zero perspectives. Uh, and it's in the a lot of the zero stuff is basically kind of like the zero series plot. It's just like, well, X was this guy. Can I actually be a hero like that? Because you know, um I could go on for a long time, so I'm just like, maybe I should like give the overview, play the games. I don't want to spoil anything. The story is relatively paper thin for somebody like me, though. I like that. I love me a dark soul, I love me uh like it's not like the st but the presented story is paper thin, I should say.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:00

Sure, sure. And I mean, well, you have to think like the X game started on the Super Nintendo, right? Like, I'm not saying Super Nintendo games can't have good stories, it but in the era action games didn't tend to bother with them really, like right, right. No. If you compare Mega Man X to uh I'm trying to think of another like Super Nintendo run and gun, like uh Turrican or um Contra, right? Like I don't I don't think those had stories.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:30

That was literally just hey, go blow up some robots, yeah, or even um even not on the Super Nintendo, but similar error of the Neo Geo games, I cannot uh metal slug, like oh sure, yeah, yeah. It's slightly different. I mean uh in presentation, but yeah, run and gun, there is a plot, but actually Mega Man X I think has something above both of those because there's actually dialogue, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:54

Yeah, yeah. And not not just like plot in the instruction manual or plot in the like if you let it sit at the title screen for long enough, actual in-game dialogue.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:05

Right, right. So it's already got a leg up, but um, I guess what I mean is like if you if you dig into the world a little bit, especially if you're uh having well, fanfiction.net because it's showing my age here, but uh archive of our own uh account, the fans, the fans make a good like add just an extra layer to it because you have this blank slate, but there's enough that you can like add stuff. And like what's Capcom gonna do? Say no, you know, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:31

Capcom, I mean Capcom is uh I think compared to certainly compared to Nintendo, but also compared to a lot of maybe most companies, except like perhaps Sega, I think is the only other one. Capcom is really like fanwork friendly, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:48

As long as it's not obviously commercial.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:51

Um, even if it is, like OCR has collaborated with Capcom. True, and Mega Ran is another example. Mega Ran, yeah. Um uh and then uh what was it? Um there was a Mega Man fangame that at some point Capcom noticed Mega Man Crossover? Oh yeah, Mega Man Cross Street Fighter. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Which, like, you know, when Nintendo takes notice of a fangame or when Square takes notice of a fan game, typically that's a bad thing. But when Capcom like Capcom saw this fangame and they went, We are elevating this to canon, like that this is now a Mega Man game.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:34

Yeah, and I super appreciate like it's like the fact that the Mega Man X8 D make exists and it's like to just kind of leave it alone. I do too, because it looks incredible, and like I played X8, it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:46

I don't it was better than X7. That's uh the highest praise I can give it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:50

Yeah, I mean it um no, I could give it higher praise than that. Um I think it's it's it's a solid platformer. They just they didn't there's two things that they did wrong. They didn't they still had a too many gimmick stages, yeah. Um, and I didn't like I I see what they were trying to do, but I didn't like the swap thing. Yeah, kind of really push that mechanic too much. Like you basically have to use it to beat Lumine at the end. Um spoilers for a 15-year-old game. Um nope, 15. Almost 20. Uh oh wait, when did first hang on, hang on?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:29

It was a PS2 game, so that's probably like 2005, 2006-ish. Because I think it was like a relatively late PS2 game.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:42

Released December 7th, 2004. So basically 2005. I so because it's X8, I'm just like, oh, it's 2008. No, so over 20 years ago, meanwhile, I crumbled to dust.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:57

Oh man, yeah. Earlier today, I like I uh was uh not even carrying, I was like moving a bag of potting soil from one spot to another spot, like two feet, and felt something in my back go.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:13

And it's like, oh no, no. Yeah, that's the worst. My like I was I walked to the coffee shop on break at work, and it's like a it's the solid 20 minutes, but it's like it's my lunch break. I usually eat at my desk anyway. So if I take my lunch break, I'm a salaried, so it doesn't really matter, but like if I'm taking a lunch break of sorts, I try to limit it to half hour to be fair to the rest of the team. But I can also eat at my desk, so I just usually eat at my desk, whatever. But if it's a nice day, I walk. So I would like, oh, I'll walk 20 to 25 minute round trip to this coffee shop. And for and all I wasn't carrying anything, I was just listening to music. I was like, all of a sudden my left shoulder started hurting, and I don't know why. I'm just like walking. I'm like, uh what's happening? And so I by the time I get back, I'm like in pain. What is going on, dude? Come on, I didn't ask for this, literally. I was walking, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:04

Like, I'm not even using the shoulder for anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:07

Um gosh. So I don't got off uh on a tangent about X8, but so the other thing is, of course, I remember the because Zero Series story-wise, chronologically, takes place after X series, like significantly after the X series, right, but came out around the same time, and I never owned a PS2, so I never played X8 or X7. I mean, well, I played X8 now because I had the X Legacy collection. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:36

Well, my understanding is like um, if I remember right, the original not not uh Inafune, but like the the the guy in charge of like X as a series, he wanted X5 to be the last one, I think. That was Inafune, I believe. Oh, maybe it was Inofune. I thought it was someone else. Correct. But then like Capcom was like, no, this is a great seller. I I want you to push real hard and squeeze out X6, X7, X8, and like he you know, didn't want to do it. And my understanding is like zero, so I think someone else directed those three games, and then he went over to the zero series, and so that's like if you wanted to truly play the X Saga, you should probably do like X1 to X5 and then jump to the Zero games, and then play X6 through X8 if you want to.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:32

Yeah, it's funny that that happened. I mean, because it's Mega May, so I'm gonna get into it. Um uh the whole thing, it's like I is if I recall correctly, and this is me trying to pull this together because I am not like an act Mega Man podcaster guy or whatever. I mean, I know it, but I think X4 they put a lot of money into like the anime cutscenes and the voice acting and everything, and it actually didn't sell as well as they were hoping. So they put less resources into X5, still trying to do some new stuff poorly. Like some of the mechanics were like very odd, and it does feel like a series wrap-up, sure, and I think that was the intention, but it's surprising to me that it's like, oh, this one's sold good, so we need X6, which clear needed a lot more quality control. Like, I don't mind beating my head against a hard game, although less and less as I somewhat for platformers anyway, but there's just certain things about X6 that I'm like, this isn't just hard, this is stupid. Like, what are you yes, what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:41

X6, yeah, it feels like uh it feels almost like a beta. Like, if they took one more pass at this game, it probably could have been maybe not fantastic, but it would have been good or even great. But as is, it's like as soon as the game was playable end to end, they're like, cool, we're gonna stop refining level design and just push it out.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:02

Yeah, you know, it's funny because Cat Yard Games on uh is a reimagining X6 currently. Speaking of Capcom being very permissive, I mean, obviously they could shut it down whenever, but as long as no one sells it, that's why X8 exists, D-Make exists, and all this stuff. That they're just like, okay, like we weren't gonna make it, and you know, as long as you're not making money off of it, and we probably they probably reserve the right to just snatch it up. But um, but yeah, uh it's called Mega Man X Viral Nightmare. Oh and um uh it's literally just like redesigned the mechanics, some of the mechanics to make it better. Um, some of the stuff is like way more logical. The nightmare phenomenon actually makes some sense and isn't ridiculous from what I understand. I I actually haven't looked at it in a couple months, and he's gotten even more stuff taken care of. But like the donuts are like more logical as well. Uh, from Blaze Heat Nicks, for those who don't know. Yeah. So anyway, just quick shout out to Cat Yard Games. Uh, if you want to check that out, it's not out yet, I don't think, or they have like a partial done, just like X, just speaking of other fan games, X Mega Man X Corrupted, which has been in development for a thousand years. Oh, I don't actually, despite that, I don't know this. Tell tell me everything about it. Okay, so Mega Man, uh, let me see. So, first of all, Dominic Ninmark, uh OC remixer. Yeah, um is do did the soundtrack. Oh, nice. Um, so that's neat. Uh that was a probably a pro bono one. So it's JKB games, um inspired by the series. It's um they are trying to actually do a proper ish, I believe, I believe, I believe, this is from what I understand, more Metroidvania-esque. I think there's still a stage select. There is axle pro and X Play. Um, there's an upgrade system as well. Um, it's lovingly created. I just looked at the X intro stage in the intro animatic of him putting on ultimate armor is freaking cool. Um, anyway, so uh it's been in development for I oh god lord. I want to say 10, maybe 11 years now. Wow, yeah, started in oh, even longer. Hey Suce Christos. The first demo videos for Mega Man X Corrupted uploaded to YouTube.com. The first one, Mega Man X Corrupted Zero Demo. This is a Mega Man fan game, July 20th, 2008. Wow, that's like not long after YouTube was invented. Yeah. Uh I did not realize it'd been around that long. That's I just got smacked in the face. He speaks English and Portuguese. Anyway, JKB Games.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:58

Uh I will most definitely check that out. That absolutely sounds fantastic. I so I recently played through um on the topic of difficult action platformers, uh, Shinobi Art of Vengeance. Um absolutely fantastic game. Uh I think um T Lopes did the soundtrack. Um yeah, it's good. Uh and of course, uh Yuzo Koshiro contributed like two or three tracks.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:25

Nice. Oh, okay. Yeah, I I I had I looked it up quick. Um, but yeah, please tell me more because uh this looks incredible.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:32

It's uh so uh it definitely uh plays differently from the old shinobi games. It's like closer to a character action game, like there's a lot more emphasis on combos and like uh so for example, enemies have uh this execution gauge, and if you do damage to them, the execution gauge rises. And there's certain attacks that will like make the execution gauge go up faster. Uh, and if that gauge is full before the enemy dies, then at some point you can insta-kill them for like a lot of you know health and money and shuriken drops. Sure, like glory kills and does glory kill, basically like a glory kill mechanic. But one of the cool things you can do is oh yeah, if you get several enemies in that executable state simultaneously, you can get them all with one execution and the rewards compound, and it's oh it's so satisfying. Um, but but it does this like uh what made me think of it is it does this like hybrid uh Metroidvania traditional prop platformer thing where there is a stage select, but then every level is kind of huge with branching paths.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:51

Oh, that's kind of neat, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:53

Yeah, and then also like there's some things that you unlock in later levels that unlock that that'll let you get to new paths in the previous levels. So there is still backtracking. So it's it's sort of like a Metroidvania, except instead of everything being in one giant map, uh, there's just like several large maps.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:12

That's that's pretty sick. Um that's a really great game. Also, bridges sort of like some because uh by today's standards, a lot of the games we love, like Mega Man X, are short.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:24

Yeah, I was shocked playing through the X collection how short, well, so X1 I knew would be short, just because I know that game the X1 is the game I had as a kid, so like I've got that game just straight up memorized. Um, I'm not like a speedrunner or anything, but I I can beat it pretty fast.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:42

Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:43

Uh, but I was shocked like how short X2 and X3 were. I was like, wait a second.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:48

Yeah, no, uh it is. I mean, X3's levels get a little lengthy for no reason. Um, I do, but I have beaten all three of those. I've never beaten X4.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:59

Uh it's good. Uh how much of X4 have you played? Uh I don't know, like four levels. I so uh what I will say is in the X series, I think X4 might have my least favorite soundtrack. Like yeah, it's the melodies are good, but it it's sort of going for like a completely different vibe than all the other X X games, which are pretty rockin'.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:27

So and X4 is just sorry, yeah. X4 is yeah, I didn't want you to finish your thought. I just it gave it reminded me. Uh so X4 to me is kind of like a jazzy fusion-you know, yeah, exactly. And it has like it's not bad, it just I don't think fits in with the rest of the series, and it has some rock in it, like doubles battle themed, very metal, but that's an exception, and it's produced not like a metal tune. Yeah, it's not produced like X8. X8's got a great soundtrack because it's it's very rock and metal, you know, with some electronics in there. But no, so X3 for the PS1. Oh, I never played the PS1 version. I neither have I. Uh I've heard it's actually in terms of gameplay, is it's not as good. Um but the state they completely redid the soundtrack. Oh, I didn't know this. Yes, and it's it's it's a lot more leaning in that jazz fusion direction. The the biggest difference is Blast Hornet's theme. Blast Hornets theme, you know, if you listen to the original, it's like that's kind of the vibe. Yeah, so it's like very driving. For some reason, they added like this crazy horn section in the intro that's like did diddle it did it's like it's like bonkers, like it's mostly the same, but they have a horn section that adds this whole extra melody in the beginning and just like loses it how what it made me feel like because you're rating this like Arab Force bass, so I was like, you know, it's fit, it's like hangar 18 by Megadeth. Great. Then this other version comes out with this horn section that's like whoa, and and funnily enough, make uh Mega Man Extreme 2, that's the version that they copped for Mega Man Extreme 2. Oh, so when I played really Mega Man Extreme 2, I hear this 8-bit Game Boy version of that, and I'm like, this isn't the stage.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:30

Yeah, so yeah, I never messed with the extreme games, uh, and I I need to because my under like uh when they came out, I was like, why would I play an 8-bit D-bake of a perfectly good 16-bit game? But my understanding now is first of all, 8-bit D-makes are cool, I've come to realize. Um, second of all, my understanding is they did add like add new content. Uh so I I need to check that out.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:56

They did add new content. Um, I don't know about I never played Xtreme One. Um, I think they added a little less content, but Mega Man Xtreme 2, it's got a whole separate storyline. Like the Mavericks and the stages are mostly the same. Mostly there's a little couple differences. Um, but there's like extra mechanics. Um early version of the mechanic introduced in, I think, X5, where you can like use chips to buy upgrades and whatnot. Oh. Um, and Iris is there for some reason.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:29

Sure, why not? Alice character, perhaps.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:33

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I guess. I mean, I think it came around the same time as X4, but Alice is the name guidebook, which I found funny. Um, I just was hyped to have a because I didn't have PlayStation in my house. I was Nintendo through and through. And it's like the only way I can play more X. Ah, I see, I see. And then of course I played through every single mag uh battle network game except for five. Never played five. I don't know why. Um making me a battle network five. Good games. I love that um stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:04

Oh, I love the Battle Network series.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:05

So yeah, I don't remember. I think I was just like that the it's crazy. It it is I highly recommend any listeners if this makes it in the cut. Um, because I just I happened to glance at the recording booth timer and I was like, oh my god, has it been that long?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:20

No, I've glanced at it. No, um okay, so let's segue. This was not intended to be a Mega Man podcast, although I should have expected, really.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:31

Yeah, um because well, because it's gonna relate to what we want to talk about, what we were initially discussed talking about.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:38

Yeah, so okay, so so uh I wanted to ask you, uh, and you are, I think, an expert at this, um, you know, well, what goes into making a rock arrangement of a VGM song? Um, and I can guess what step one is.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:56

Step one is start with Mega Man source material, but after that, uh not required, uh, which is why I um pulled behind the curtain. I picked a few uh to discuss today, just so we had some kind of structure. Uh, because again, not sure what makes the effort, but we've uh edit, excuse me, but we've talked for a while about nothing and having a great time doing it. Um, not nothing, but in in the same way that uh Jerry Seinfeld uh made his show about nothing.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:30

Right. Um we yeah, we just spent 45 minutes talking about Mega Man just because we're both Mega Man freaks, apparently. Which I'm I love Mega Man.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:40

I mean, we just become best friends, uh so anyway. So choosing a Mega Man track house because Mega Man's usually pretty rocky. Oh, yeah. Uh, in its conception, not all of it. Mega Man one, not really, kind of more of a jazzy soundtrack in a lot of ways. Uh, I'm gonna start with my approach specifically. Um, I do want to talk about more ways to do it because I'm a uh a vocalist. So oh don't sell yourself short. You're also an incredible bassist, right? Bass isn't typically a lead instrument, though, so that's why I was leading with the vocalists. But thank you. I I love I mean I love playing bass. I I mean half my arrangements start with, you know, what am I doing on bass? Like I I that's um um uh that I needed to address before I forgot. Uh okay. Oh so got it. I'm gonna restart. So I'm gonna start as a as a vocalist um and bass player. Uh it's very easy to do rock because I mean I grew up listening to Rush. Um I was just listening to Rush the other day. My favorite song when I was five was For Whom the Belt Holls, which by the way does have lead bass, um, despite me saying it's not really a lead instrument. Um, so I like to to sing the melodies instead of playing them on guitar, which is typically what you Hear, you know, there's there is precedent for it. I'm not the first person to come up with that idea. Actually, I think I I was like, oh, I could do this when Brentelfloss did his Mega Man 2 with lyrics. I I like being funny, uh, but I don't I'm if I'm doing comedic stuff as a performer, I don't feel like I'm being a hundred percent honest. Just not what I like to create as a as an aside, similar to like the Megas or or what have you. Like I'll do one joke song if I'm performing, but I I'm not gonna make a joke song usually. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:36

Um so I like to sing myself. So you already have uh that's that's one aspect of of rock that's that's very easy. So I mean if you sing with a somewhat bombastic style, you can get there. That's not really even like the biggest thing, but because I have to I like to structure my songs with a verse, then a chorus, and then a verse, guitar solo, of course, typical rock form. Yeah, I'd say fairly standard. Yeah, so that's that's number one. You have to figure out the form because you know there's a lot of video game music that it's only two parts that repeat over and over again, etc. So you kind of have to figure out how how am I gonna make this into an actual song and not just a loop. Can get away with just rockifying or metalizing a cover without doing too much else, but uh I I feel like since we're the overclocked remix podcast, we should put it in that lens, and overclocked remix definitely emphasizes some transformativeness. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:34

It's uh it's not an OCR track, but uh one example of this that I've always found particularly impressive is uh the stage select theme in Mega Man 2 is what like a 12-second loop. Um and for the Megas to not only turn that into like a three-minute rock song, but also maybe my favorite song on their first album is like wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:02

Yeah, um, that is so the nice thing about when you'd sing too is you can let the other instruments take over the video game melody sometimes. And then I can you can sing what makes sense for a vocal. Because not every video game melodies make sense for a vocal, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:30:19

I or even for instrument I saw um as a Mega Man fan, I have to ask, did you play Shovel Knight? Yes. Okay, all right. So I went to see Shovel Knight Live uh in New York. Oh nice, incredible show, but like at several points in the performance, the uh the I forget his name, but the lead guy uh goes up to the microphone and he goes, Listen, folks, Jake Kaufman never intended human hands to be able to play this song.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:49

Yeah, some of them are a little bit ridiculous. I I haven't played it in a while, so I can't think of all of them. I mean, they're really good. Um I I I arranged Strike the Earth a while ago. Um, so I remember that one. Um I never submitted it to Overclocked Remix for some reason. I don't know why. Whatever. Anyway, sometimes, sometimes the bet worst judge is yourself. Um I already end no resubmit, so I don't have to get a no from effect. Um anyway, so um, so yeah, but that's a good example, and actually, I'm no stranger to that either. I it's it's it's nice when you have you can take a musical idea, but the biggest thing for a rock arrangement is changing some things are already rock, obviously, and we'll get into that in a little bit, because there's one example. Start from something that's not rock. So I arranged first stage, or I guess hub world, you if you could kind of think of it like that song from the X, which was Greengrass Gradation. Area A. And it's it's very much a trans techno kind of vibe. It's got synthesizers everywhere, um, the intro like loop is Um, so but it's uh played on a high synth. So the first thing you can do with a rock thing is, well, how can I make this sound cool on guitar? Um some people might quibble rock versus metal. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:11

I don't care. Um Yeah, I got you know, I I was I was talking about rock arrangement, but then like your album is X over Zero colon Mega Man metal, and it's like, well, uh, let's not.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:25

I mean, so there's it's one of those things like what's the difference between rock? Like in modern era, it's really kind of aggression levels and like emphasis on technicality, I would say. Because the difference between like a breaking Benjamin or something versus like a corn is not a huge difference, but like one is definitely metal and one is definitely rock.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:47

Yeah. You know what I mean? That's a good example. I like that example.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:50

Yeah, because they're they're both down-tuned guitars, they're both riftastic, but you know, the way Jonathan tells his name. I cannot remember. I'm bad. His first name's Jonathan. I can't remember his last name for the life of me. But, you know, when he's falling away from me, um, when he's, you know, when he's singing his vocals, it's definitely more of a middle approach versus um Ben Burnley from Breaking Benjamin. Um to be specific, love this tangent we're going on now. Um, it's both also have very aggressive vocals, but it's how they're used to me. Um, so back to my thing. Um so the first thing I did was figure out the chord progression. Um the original tune is actually an A minor, and it's a simple there's a very standard chord progression that's in a lot of different music, but also rock, uh, which is um minor key six seven one.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:49

Major six chord, major seven chord, minor six one chord. Yeah. Um you could also spell it differently. I don't feel like getting into all the crazy ways you could do it with music theory, but minor key six seven one. It's a very common, epic sounding chord progression. Um All Along the Watchtower is one, six, or seven, six, set one, seven, six, seven, one back and forth. That's that chord progression. That's all it is. So that's a good example if you're familiar with All Along the Watchtower as a classic rock song. Yeah. So this has that. So it's like, okay, but it and the next thing you can do is figure out how to make a riff out of something in the in what's happening in the music. So uh the that keyboard part that is in the original song, which is how it starts, is I was like, oh, if I tune my guitar into a drop D's thing, I can and turn it down a key because I decided that A was too high for me to sing. So I'm gonna go down to G minor instead of A minor. So that's also another reason I tuned down my guitar. I can do this kind of thing because uh with with the guitar. So I transition that live into a guitar riff. So instead of just the toot doot doo, it was like bah bum bah. So that's the first thing. So that gives you a big stable bass, a hook, as it were. Yeah. Uh which you know, to to work around. The next thing is the drums. So this original electronica thing is just a typical, you know, kind of deal. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. With all that four on the floor. Right. So you want to make it less four on the floor. Now you can still rock music, can still have the you know, it can still do that. Sure. But um it's not notably. It's got openings and the approach is a little different with the cymbals. Um, because you're not usually gonna have a hi-hat on a do just the off beats or just a simple, you know, pattern. It will often do other things and you'll use the ride symbol a little bit more, stuff like that. So there's so a lot of what comes down to rock arrangements is making sure the drums are idiomatic of that style. And this is a bit more metal because it's got a lot of like like crazy stuff. But there's that, and then um, and then the drums are idiomatic. So once you have those two things, then you have like a good bass line to do your rock arrangement. Um, that's not the only way to do it, it's the way I typically like to do it, because I am a bass player, so like even though I kind of figure this out on guitar, I'm always thinking about like a really solid foundation bass part. I always think about chords and stuff with just the root notes. I don't actually usually think about the rest of it until later.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:54

Um Right. So you're not like, oh, well, you know, this is a uh, you know, uh A minor seventh uh second inversion.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:04

No, which I've been looking at some battle mit work music, and that has gotten in my frickin' way lately, but that's another story. Um not that those things aren't useful, it's just not something I think about that much. Sure. Uh until Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:17

I mean, uh I definitely I I've only studied music theory a little, and like I freely admit I don't quite understand inversions other than it's like same notes in the chord, but you're just putting an atypical note at the very bottom. Uh yeah that makes it sound slightly different, and I'm like, okay, that's cool, but why? Like I have to admit I don't fully grasp it.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:46

Yeah, it's well, and that's you're correct, and it the why is part of why music theory can be very interesting. Um, and some of it's a societal thing. Uh go to adamneely.com if like just watch a bunch of his videos.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:01

Yeah, that's a yeah, he is a fantastic resource for just like explaining music theory in a way that and David Bennett.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:10

Oh, I don't know that one. Okay. David Bennett composer. They they just they talk about music, they they kind of dig in a little bit sometimes to the why of like because some of it's cultural, right? Like you have certain expectations because of how you were raised and um and other things like that. So and then after that, for rock music, there is rock music follows a particular form, generally speaking.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:32

Generally, yeah. Well, unless until you get into prog rock, and one of the joys of prog rock is like we can play with the form some more.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:40

You can, but it usually like you some of the best prog rock songs are still have You're not wrong, yeah. You know, it's lengthened, there's more going on within the form, but there's still um still, you know, something that would res there's i I call it a chorus, but like realistically the form is small section, big section. Yes, yeah, or of uh dynamic wise, loud sections, quiet sections, kind of like rock music and metal music on its thing is always on the louder end, like it is just a loud style of music, yeah, which is why I said big and small, because it's kind of all obnoxious, uh you know, loud because it's the style, but um, but there are times when it's like the music is feels smaller and then feels bigger.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:27

Um I I I think from like the the perspective of attending uh rock or metal concerts, like there's the part of the song where you're just sort of grooving, and then there's the part of the song where people start like jumping in the air.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:42

Right, exactly, correct. And then but the same thing is with a lot of the best prog stuff. Now, not all of it, obviously, and but prog is kind of its own umbrella in some ways, yeah. But some of the best ones that are most well known because they're are still grounded, I would say, is they still follow that formula. Now, is it extended a lot usually? Yes. Um, and it also depends. Now we could get on a whole sidebar about prog rock because there is kind of two branches of prog. There's the yes branch of prog, if you will, and then there's the pink Floyd branch of prog.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:18

Yes, yeah. I I tend to call them like I I usually call them progrock, and the other I usually call psychedelia or frog psychedelia or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:28

Right. And actually that applies to a lot of different styles because there's psychedelic trance and there's also progressive trance. That's true, very different. They don't follow the like they're not even comparable in terms of like how they were treated in that that area clear. Uh, as far as I understand it, I've I love psychedelic trance um because of vibe generally. Psychedelic trance is a lot darker than progressive trance usually is. Um, but uh I don't I wouldn't call myself an expert. Like I listen to infected mushroom and a whole bunch of like random other acts that do psychrance. Um, anyway, uh so that being said, so that's that's the other big thing with a rock arrangement is having the form. And generally speaking, it is a simple you have intro, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, guitar solo, usually some kind of breakdown, but not always, and then there's the last chorus. Yeah, um, and this goes back to like the very simplest of rock Beatles, it's pop rock, sure, but it's rock. Um, where it's like verse, chorus, verse, chorus, middle eight, full bridge, not necessarily a solo, but it's there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then an outro chorus with something slightly different in it. Like that's that's it. And that's that's the rock form. So you want to like usually use that when you're doing a rock arrangement after you've already have all the other stylistic things we talked about at this point. Um, and then for me, I always have to write lyrics. Um, a whole other topic.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:59

Yeah, that's uh one thing uh I uh for whatever reason, uh when I think of VGM rock arrangements that uh have novel lyrical content, it's almost always Mega Man.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:17

Uh there it's you can do a lot with the story. Like it's it's it's that's the nice thing about it. It's like got just enough. Yep. You know.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:26

Yeah. So so what's your approach to lyric writing? I mean, like, because like uh you have constraints, right? You like you have to follow uh the melody and you have to also follow the overall form of the song, right? Like generally the verse sections are different and the choruses, you know, there's maybe minor variations, but you want the chorus to be basically the same every time.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:49

Yeah, that is correct. Um, so my approach, my first approach is I like to be um I like to use imagery to convey where the gameplay is taking place. Ooh, um so in the case of this one, um the chorus, which is I think the first thing I wrote in this case, it's not always the case, but that's the verses actually of this one are completely like original melody over the chord progression because it's a simple chord progression, and I just needed that last thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:23

Yeah, which is you know something also I keep going back to the mega is just that's that's that seems to be like the mega's approach to songwriting, also is like the actual the the the source material content is usually in the guitar solo, and then the verses are original melodies, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:44

And that's that's a good approach. Um, even with the choruses, they do it too, because it like some of these melodies you shouldn't sing. Um, I and I like to push it, is my thing. Like, I'm I'm always a little bit extra in that way. I I it's not recommended. I I'm gonna tell you this. Uh it's it's I I put myself through the ringer sometimes with these things.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:06

Yeah, frankly, after your VGM concept, I was expecting you to be hoarse and like sounded pretty normal to me. You may have felt horse, but I didn't hear it.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:15

Yeah, well, I mean, I was doing some recording and practicing before this this recording too. So um but it's it's maybe I've only ever heard you hoarse. That's also true. No, um, I I it didn't feel too bad at the end of VGM content, like my voice was starting to like get pushed a bit, but I've been really practicing and and figuring it out. But it's all about you have to have some good technique, it's very like technical, um, which is something I like to do. I'm just saying, like, you can make life easier on yourself and do it like the Megas do most of the time. Like, not that they do a lot of hard stuff. I don't want to diminish what they do because I've seen what goes into their productions, I know what they play, not even a diss on them, just they do go about it in a more like logical, repeatable manner.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:58

Yeah, I I wouldn't I wouldn't call their vocals particularly bombastic.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:02

That's the word. Yeah, they're not they're not doing what I do, which is like crazy power metal stuff. But I grew up on like Iron Maiden and Mega uh Metallica and Rush, so here you are. Um but anyway, so um, because the chorus, it's a little hard because it's uh Int Creates loves to do this like uh do do do do do like they like to have like a uh quick pickup to the main part of the melody.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:28

Yeah, they do that even in the in the um oh god, what's it called? It's their like I'm I'm blanking on the name, but it's their like not Mega Man X series.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:37

Oh, as your as your circumvolt.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Gun vault, gun vault. Uh even in Gun Vault, they they've got a lot of that. Oh, yeah, Gun Vault has also like got this whole like J pop thing intertwined in it.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:49

Yeah, I mean it is also common in in J Pop 2, actually. Um it's uh yeah, actually, now that you mention it. But I think it's I also think it's just because it's that might be a language thing, the melodic sensibility. Sure. But maybe just cultural, you know. So that's the hardest part was figuring out how to like um say that. And like, you know, that was a feedback I got from the judges on this one, which is like, well, it's yeah, I can't quite understand what you're saying, although I think I could do a better job now. I recorded this a year ago. Um, and so because it's a witness, all the green grass and trees, right? It's very jumpy melody, too. Yeah, yeah. Figuring out how to get all that in there. Now, the lyrics want to do two things for me. I want to get the listener in how I felt when I was playing the game, as well as kind of giving an idea of the story. That's what I want the chorus to do. I don't want the chorus to like, you know, it's not Edmund Fitzgerald, you know. I'm not like telling the story that definitively. Um, but with you use image, so so the lyrics are witness all the green grass and trees rise, take a dip, deeper breath, and you'll open your eyes. Every time your past clears the canopy, there's a guiding wind to give you peace. So that's the plot of the game. Uh, in four lines. Like it's it's there's I mean, obviously it's very simplified, but like that's kind of what the game is. So the imagery, of course, is the green grass and trees rise. So it takes play the that area is in the woods, it's the very first stage of the game. Um you start on the top of like overlooking it, what's below you, and then um the rest of the game is described by the past of the main character, and it you know, um and then I did the same with the bridge, which is just like more imagery about shine beams reflecting on the forest floors. So if you ever looked up at the trees, you see the sun kind of coming down, uh sure, you know, and then like not as much of the but the beauty of everything living in harmony steadies the swirling storm of feelings at your core. It's just basically kind of like a it I uh maybe could have done more than that, but it it felt nice. And again, I was though that's all from the Game, like that's the original melody from the game. So I was already dealing with the constraints of how do I get all these syllables to fit in a way that actually makes sense. Their word is prosody. Um so you is which is basically how one speaks. So you want to make it when you're singing and communicating, you want to kind of have it thing so it's more understandable and more emotion can be conveyed.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:23

Um not not to derail us back into Mega Man because we already spent 45 minutes there. But I do have a Mega Man question. Okay. Uh it just occurred to me that, like, oh yeah, like I know uh uh the connection between the X series and the Zero series. What is the connection between the ZX series and any other Mega Man?

SPEAKER_01 1:50:47

Oh Christmas. Uh okay. I'm gonna do this as brief as possible. So it's a hundred it's like two hundred years after the well, a hundred to two hundred years after the X series. Um excuse me, after the Zero series. Oh, okay, okay. Um so Neo Arcadia being this big city state, Mega Man Zero was a whole plot. It was a city for humans and the reploids were oppressed. Yeah. The solution to that in the ZX series, and I'm being very broad because I do recommend you play them. The plot is still paper thin, but it's very well presented. But the main plot, uh this the setting of ZX is actually every human that is born is turned into a cyborg, basically, and every reploid now can only live so long. Oh, okay. Um the only difference between humans and reploids anymore is the fact that reploids have a little diamond on their heads. Um as is tradition. As is tradition, or not diamond, triangle, whatever. Jam thing. Yeah, correct. And prairie, not prairie, sorry, that's the main character. So it's heavily implied that one of the main characters you meet is Alouette, who's the little girl from Z Hero, and CL solved the energy crisis and then discovered some MacGuffin nonsense, but also put in put the personalities of Mega Man Zero or X Zero and the four guardians into these things called biometals. Um which is basic, so it's basically like Power Rangers or turn into if you have a biometal, you can do you know magical girl makeup and become and become an an avatar of you know harpuya or um whatever. So that is that's how that connects there. Now, there is actually on the tail end of that, it's heavily implied by the plot that it's kind of setting the stage for legends. Oh, because uh I can't I I don't know if I shouldn't have to do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:08

No, no, no, you've given me enough. You've given me enough. Okay, all right. I I'm intrigued, I will definitely be playing them.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:15

If you to listeners, if you're not already Mega Man fans, which you probably are because you're listening to this podcast, um definitely if you're not having dug in, dig in. My DMs are open when I remember to look at them.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:29

Um gosh, I keep forgetting that we're recording this. I'm just like hanging out talking Mega Man. I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:34

Uh and the and I I only remember just now because my monitors did turn off. And normally when I'm just hanging out, we're like I'm gaming or something, but we're recording, so I can't like multitask that hard. Ah, I see, I see, I see. Um, plus I'm standing here, so uh oh right, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, let's keep moving so that you can sit down at some point. No, it's all right. I'm probably gonna have a lazy weekend, so no big deal. Um, anyway, so uh so that's how ZX relates. So that's but that's well, that's the other reason it's called War Never Changes, because it's a cyclical thing. And that's ah sure, yeah. I like it. Yeah, and so like you know, I use the verses to tell more of the story of the game. Um and this isn't spoiling it because it's so the main character is an orphan who's taken in by this guy who runs a delivery service. Uh, so my so first thing is just another day on the job, daily tasks can distract, left alone at the age of four, no innocence left intact. Easy. Um, and then I wanted to work it, I like to work in the title sometimes. Um, and it is called Green Grass Gradation, which is a crazy title. Only a Japanese person would have come up with that set of words. But so two roads diverge by four you because we've been talking about forests this whole time, or we're going to the green gradation of the grass, which is I mean, if you've ever like stood in a field and like on a windy-ish day, especially if the there's like it's partly cloudy, and you've seen like what happens to the grass when the wind blows.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:04

Yeah. Um, it's uh this is a particularly nerdy way to to phrase it, but it's sort of like you can see the vector field that is the wind.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:16

Yes. So that is yeah. Um, I guess I'm not that gonna turn in my nerd card. That was that I wouldn't even have thought of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:25

So thanks, uh I have a math PhD, so like so. I do not so like vector fields were a very important part of my dissertation. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:37

Fair enough. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:38

Just a big part of my life, vector fields.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:40

Yes, for you all you math nerds out there, listener number two. I know. Um, so and then you're uh you before you had the right to choose, you were shackled by pass again, referencing um, because the fact that they're orphans is actually a plot point in the game. And then uh, I don't know. I just I sometimes like to get too real with these lyrics. Like my Chrono Trigger ones are way too real. I don't even know what I'm gonna do with those. Like I've got themselves, but they're like somehow weirdly personal, but they're Chrono Trigger songs. I don't know. Um, we they're not on OCR. Uh we could talk offline, I don't know. Um, I I should submit it. I just haven't, again, I'm my own worst judge. Um, but so time is a circular thing, a test of one's resolve. Nothing ever goes away, it just waits for the clock to revolve. Again, referencing the fact that this is the fourth Mega Man series. Third, and no, fourth, I guess, kind of, and it's just like, how how many times are we gonna have this happen?

SPEAKER_02 1:56:43

Yeah, because I'd say it's the fourth series of platformers, but I guess yeah, uh uh what fifth overall if you include legends? I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:53

Yeah, but like chronologically, I guess so third. Um, but it's just like every time it's like so you know, there's the Wiley Wars, there's the Maverick Wars, and then in between X and Zero, the Elf Wars, and then it's like here's another F in War. Yay! But it's also real life, which is kind of the fun part about this because like there's a lot of allegory we can do. Um it's not on the site yet, but there's one eventually gonna be costed that's um Cyber Peacock from uh games that match mash. Oh, yeah, yeah, that's a good track. And uh that I literally submitted it as no allegory here, move along. Because of the lyrics I wrote, I was like, eh, eh. Like not not nearly as uh you know hit you on the head as personal peacock, but uh but definitely um definitely still like oh this is about current affairs, isn't it, Cyril?

SPEAKER_02 1:57:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:51

Sure is oopsie. I didn't mean to do that about my robot game song.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:58

Unfortunately, robots are now a thing to worry about, so and then they don't look like F and Mega Man now, do they?

SPEAKER_05 1:58:07

I know, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:58:09

Um if only. Uh and and unfortunately the internet doesn't look like Battle Network either, even though there's parallels and it's all very annoying.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:17

How much money I would pay for a web browser that like just was Mega Man Battle Network? That'd be great. Hell yeah, dude. Uh I'm gonna go virus bust or malware bust or whatever. I I do find it hilarious that uh it's like the first or second dungeon in Battle Network 1 is literally, or like first or second main major like plot event is literally like oh no, someone hacked our smart appliances and now ovens are setting people's houses on fire.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:45

That is literally the first oh that's the first. Oh god, that's the very first plot point. I distinctly remember it because I was playing, I was like, oh, this is rad, and I somehow got pretty far in it because I didn't know you could move like the mechanic in the game. I didn't know you could move on the grid, I was just treating it like an RPG.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:02

Sure, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:04

Um and uh even though I'd played Quest 64, anyway, moving on. Um, and uh I'm just sitting there, and then you I got to Fireman, and I'll never forget it because it's the Fireman's uh the boss theme starts off with this sick bass line. And I was like, Oh, this is the coolest shit ever. Uh me and my oh god, that was 2005.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:31

I was like, Yeah, that would have been like 2003, 2004.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:35

Yeah, no, I think actually I think M MB1 N1 was 2001? Yeah, I think so. Maybe 2002. Like 2001, March 21st, 2001.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:45

Oh boy, so that was an early, early Game Boy Advance game, then.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:49

Yeah, I got it for my birthday, which is in May. Um, that year. I was 11. Sorry if that makes you feel old. Um I was only a couple years older. Okay. So my 11-year-old brain was like, Oh, oh my god, this is incredible. Anyway, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:08

Uh yeah, what what what struck me about that plot point though was like, oh yeah, 20 years ago that was sci-fi. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:18

Yeah, exactly. This is sci-fi. Now people have smart fridges, and now it's like, my my freaking garage door opener, which I turned off by the way, because F that has a Wi-Fi could like capability.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:29

I was like, no. Have we learned nothing from Mega Man Battle Network?

SPEAKER_01 2:00:34

No, not enough people played it because it was on the Game Boy Advance in a Japanese video game in the 2000s. Uh so that's that's one approach to rock uh songs. All right, the topic. Choosing rock man uh start is is a great way to do it. Uh for the you know um and and approaching it like this. Now you don't have to. Um there is a couple of different ways to uh to really do a rock remix. And um I chose the one of Corridors of Time very specifically.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:11

Yeah, so okay, so I want to point out for the listeners, since I have briefly recalled that this is a podcast, that I I asked you to pick one not arranged by you or that you didn't work on at all, uh just so that we could like talk about uh how someone else might approach rock arrangement that isn't you.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:31

Correct, yeah. And like the the nice thing about uh if you want to be, you've got to be a student of the game, as some people like to like that's that's like something like the hip hop guys like to say you want to be a student of the game, right? Um it's good to listen to a lot of variety so you can do it. I like the way I approach things because I like to do that. It's the sound I hear in my head, but I'm aware of different approaches, and I'm just prefacing that because I think if you dig deep enough, because I've released I put together things to sell at Mac uh VGM Con and there was eight hours of music on there. I've done a lot of different stuff, and I think I probably done something similar to uh stratification uh by Melody. Um but I wanted to highlight a couple of things because I was just scrolling through and I I wanted to make sure I was familiar with the source, and I am uh very much a creature of habit sometimes in my listening videos. Not that I'm not open to new um, oh my god, I just need various corridor of time remixes so I can point them out. My Lord, have mercy on my soul. I'm just buying time while I scroll. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:41

So um well, so so scroll corridors of time is a problematic one for that because I think there's 25 OCR accepted remixes of it. Very popular track.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:53

Now I will say I didn't specifically look at corridors of time, I was just scrolling through through a lot of and it caught my eye. I was like, oh, this is perfect. Um, because I really know the theme. I haven't done it myself. Um and uh, you know, I I'm sure there's a lot, there's a lot of good video game music out there. I'm just an old head and I love Chrono Trigger.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:15

Um Yeah, I uh I mean I think there's something to the notion that um a lot of the like 16-bit era games had to have really strong memorable melodies because you've you've literally got kilobytes of space to work with. Like you've got to you've got to make it happen. Um and you know, uh Yasunori Mitsuda, one of the all-time greats at this, I think.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:41

Yeah, and it's well, and and also it had to loop, by the way. You and you because you only have so much time to get back to the back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, so absolutely, you're very much correct. Um, and uh so that's what that's what makes it like better. Not that there isn't good stuff, but so like um there's one uh from 2009 uh called Corruptor in Time of Corruptor of Time, and I'm just highlighting it because before we get into stratification by Melody, which is again still a rock arrangement, just a very different vibe. Um it's more what we talked about with my version, like just really loud rock guitar, yes, straightforward guitar. So, but um stratification a little more subtle, but it's still rock. You can you can tell in a couple of key ways. Um first is in fact the drums. Now, this is a nice thing because you know, quarter is a time, if you're not familiar with the source, very uh I would very world music-y.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:42

Yeah, it's um I'll splice in some of the source, but like it's definitely I don't know if he actually sampled a sitar for it, but it's got like that sounds like the case of the case. Yeah, the I don't even know what those are called, but like the drums that I think of as being vaguely Indian.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:30

Um Yeah, um, I I I feel bad I should note they're called, and I just can't think of them. And I really don't want to call them the wrong thing.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:38

The track that I use to play out the podcast every month is um See You Next Time Water from uh I think Dark Swords Final Fantasy V. Uh, and it uses the same drums. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Only, you know, not like bit crunched down to fit on the Super Nintendo sound trip. Correct. Um, yeah, it it's very world music-y. I'd also say it's very um vibey.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:03

Right, yes. And so the reason I'm highlighting this rock arrangement too is because it's keep it this one kept the vibe. Yeah, it really did. Um, but it's still very much rock, right? But it still kept the vibe. A lot of the other rock remixes um that weren't medleys or whatever, didn't keep the vibe. Like the melody's there, but it still doesn't feel like quarters of time. Yes. Um, the first thing is it's still very guitar-centric, which is a kind of important for rock. Not necessarily required. There are examples of rock without guitar. Sure. But for the most part, guitar. So it starts off with guitar playing the ostinado, which is uh a musical term for repeated the fancy music word for a thing that repeats a bunch. Correct. Um, and so um on on a uh natural harmonic guitar. So it's got a very particular bell-like sound that's still a guitar, but it's like very pure sounding. Um the next thing you hear after that, so because otherwise it sounds like, oh, this is just another arrangement, of course. Then the the drum we're gonna go back to the drums come in. Um and so the biggest thing with drum kit, so all rock music has to have a drum kit. Can't be another kind of drum situation. There's a lot of different ways to have percussion. Uh actually, the original source material, uh, which you heard spliced in here. But in this case, if you want it to be a rock arrangement, it does have to have, and we kind of talked about it earlier, the drum kit. So that means it has to have a bass drum, a snare drum, uh hi-hat, two cymbals usually, and then some toms. And some would say all you need is the first three that I mentioned. Yeah. So that's the first thing. It is still playing, if you listen, basically the pattern that the world music Indian drums were making on the original arrangement, but it's adapted kick snare pattern that most rock has. So it's always you some kick is the first noise sound you hear followed by the snare, keeping what's called the backbeat. Uh backbeat being, so if you're counting one, two, three, four, the backbeat being two and four. Yeah. Um, so you get to hear that. Now it's not that simple rhythm, but it's you hear that. And actually, I don't even I'm listening to it now just to remind myself. There's barely any cymbals, even. It's just that. The next thing you hear is the melody played on a loosely distorted guitar. And that's the other thing. If you don't have vocals, you have to have a lead instrument. It's usually guitar. Um, this is very much in the style of Joe Satriani, Steve Vi. Actually, I guess this would be more Eric Johnson.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:42

Um I I have a I have a nerdier poll than that. Uh, it reminds me of how the guitar sounds in um Shoji Meguro composed games. So it specifically, this sounds a lot like the guitar work in uh Shin Megami Tansi through uh Shin Megami Tantsei 3. That is a nerdier poll, uh appropriate for the audience.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:06

Some one of the two listeners is like, yeah, yeah, the the other the one who's the math major, probably. Um sorry, math manager listener. Um anyway, but uh but no, that's great, yeah, exactly. But it's it's it's again, it's it's a very stylistic uh guitar reminiscent of Sergi Miguro, um, who was probably influenced by those 80s guitar guys. Because again, I'm definitely the reason I'm going back to not the nerdy poles is because it's older.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:34

So it's yeah, kind of like and I mean like a lot of a lot of uh uh game composers that we love, particularly JRPG composers, you talk to them about their influences and they'll be like, oh yeah, 70s and 80s rock, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:48

Yeah, absolutely. So that's that's just another just to defend my nerd credit a little bit, there's a reason I I said uh Eric Johnson and not Shoji Makura or some other nuovo guitar situation. But yeah, so the bass comes in, it's always a bass guitar playing uh uh locked in with the kick drum.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:07

I I like that you clarified bass guitar because I just had this image of like a typical rock band, except the bass isn't upright.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:14

Now that exists, it's called it's called psychabilly, it's great. Um Jim Horton's uh shit Horton Heat. The Reverend Horton Heat, the good example, uh Psychobilly Freak Out, fantastic. Uh it's very it's still very like it's called Rockability Um or Psychobilly, so it's it's basically very bluegrass, but it's got the rock kind of aesthetic. But now, it's funny you should say that that does exist, it's very cool. Um, but I did specify because um most of the time it is a bass guitar.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:54

And this one is. And uh, but bass guitars can do a lot different things than. Uh, because you would never do these very tight patterns with an upright either. Uh in terms of like staccato notes and stuff like that, because of the physics of the instrument. But um, and we don't, I mean, I don't have much else to talk about in terms of like uh, but please, like, we're gonna listen to it. I'm assuming you're gonna spice the whole dang thing. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:19

Most definitely.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:20

Um, so one thing I want to highlight though is when you have the guitar lead, um, it's important to not just play like that's my pretending you not only uh I guess I guess a kid would sing it like that. I'm just I'm maybe being too pejorative, but my point is like a lot of beginners play the melody on guitar to say, oh that's good.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:49

But I want uh I would love the listener to pay attention to how a melody phrases it because instead of going it's um it's more expressive than that with a lot of like bends and things like that.

SPEAKER_07 2:13:05

So um yeah, it's like it's got it's got an arc to it.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:15

There's dynamics, he stops and starts. Uh one could say uh he uh put a bit more stank on it. He put he did in fact put a lot more stink on it, and actually this is he put a lot of stink on it like a minute into the song of a four-minute song. He puts more stink on it. Um the other form you can take is basically crescendo to the end. That's the other rock form that's most common. Quiet, quiet, quiet. Uh actually a good example. It it's not the best example, but it is a good example because it's actually way more complicated than that. I I I really hesitate to use Bohemian Rhapsody as a example of you know, like a solid example of anything because it's kind of its own thing. It very much so. But rock music does do this a lot where it's just like quiet, quiet, quiet. Big part that you ex you built up to, and then a very quiet end. And that's exactly what this one does. Yep. Um, you know, there's a lot more parts and stuff, but you can do that over the course of a simple thing. This also has some U2 vibes. U2 is also a big rock band, just like the vibe is there. Yeah, I can totally hear that. Yeah, it's uh instead of the edge, though, it's melody's sickly guitar playing. Um on the melody, if you will. Um but it this uh again, I wanted to highlight it because this is a tune that doesn't necessarily lend itself to being forced into the chorus thing. Like, I'm gonna try to do it at some point. Don't don't mess with me.

SPEAKER_02 2:14:46

But I mean it on OCR it's practically obligatory to either do Corridors of Time or Um Ice Cap Zone, but you have to do one of those two.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:59

Yeah, I've been delaying. Uh or Wiley 2, I guess or Wiley. Wiley 2. Um uh Terra's theme. Right. Uh I have specify I have done Terra's theme, but incognito for a parody album. Um if you can find it anymore, it was it was for uh I will tell you the album if you can figure out which one I'm on. Okay. Even though I said Terra's theme, but it's it's not that simple. Uh it's the uh it's the Raffle album to the sauce co-community with overclocked remix. They do the overclock uh they now are called compovers, they kind of transition to that um and do the one hour compos every Thursday.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:38

Yeah, and they did the um uh I think what most OCR people would know them for is they did like the the badass albums, right? Or contributively, I should say.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:48

Yeah, fair enough. I thought that was the sauce. Um I'm just trying to remember what it's uh, but that sounds right. I mean, again, the communities are very close. Yes, um a lot of crossing. Yeah, Duck Hunt oh repercussions of foul lamentation. Um so yeah, uh check that out. Um oh yeah, actually it did get posted on Remix the Sauce presents the official DuckHunt HD remix soundtrack. It is posted on Overclocked Remix from 2010. Um no one used their actual artist names. It's so silly. Ah, I found I found it and I downloaded it. I don't know where you can find it anymore, um, but it does exist. Find it, I'm not helping you anymore. Uh I contributed a few tracks. But my point, I don't remember what my point was on that. Oh yeah, Terra's theme. I I did a thing for it. Um now. What was I gonna say? So, um but yeah, quarters of time is one of those tracks that it like you could probably, and I'm again I'm gonna try do it the way I did it with the first song. But it because of the vibe and what it is, if you wanna if you're trying this is where it becomes opinion, right? Like if you're trying to stay true to the source in terms of what it meant in context, you want to do it like stratification. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, because again, the that's not a shackle. This is me. I love to make sure whatever I'm doing honors the context. You don't have to, it's not true. I mean, uh most of the time I do have an arrangement that I still haven't submitted again, of Black Omen titled Queen Zeal's Bedchambers Chambers. I guess that's kind of honoring the source, but it's it's nothing like the source. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:17:36

So that's uh that's that's rock remix number two of Yeah, and I I had you pick out a third one to talk about also, which this one uh is maybe I don't I don't want to call it the most straightforward of the three you picked, uh because like as you pointed out, the quarters of time track is uh fairly in keeping with the the vibe and the groove of groove of the original, just a little rockify well more than a little, but rockify. Right. Exactly. Well, and that's yeah, go ahead. I I feel like the source track for this, I mean it's a Final Fantasy battle track. More than that, it's an Uimatsu Final Fantasy battle track. Like that's already pretty close to rock writing to start with, I feel.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:23

Yes, correct. And but that's why I chose it. Um, because so we've we've kind of done two variants. We've done the adding vocals, going all the way into making it a rock song.

SPEAKER_02 2:18:35

So we were talking about uh uh Exploda from Final Fantasy IX. Which covers Battle One. Um yeah, I like I I said this beforehand, but I think like Uamatsu in particular, when he does a Final Fantasy battle track, it's basically already a rock song. Correct.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:33

Um so what do you do from there if you want to arrange something? And I, to me, especially when the album is starting to come out, whatever, um the works. I want to do this one because this is like one of the first uh midis I'd ever looked at. I'd looked at the script, looked like it was like the kind of one of those things that's like, oh god, video game music is cool. Like I already knew it was. Um, because obviously I'd heard Final Fantasy VII's Battleflux music, which is a rock song. Like, talk about rock song. Guitars and everything.

SPEAKER_02 2:20:02

Absolutely. That boss I mean all of his boss names, but especially Seven. Oh my god. Yeah. Uh that and um sixes is is the one I six and seven in particular, I think, are just straight up rock. But yeah, so this was on Final Fantasy IX Worlds Apart, and then Right. You know, later uh submitted and accepted as a like numbered which number is this? 3508.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:28

Correct. So, um, I think this is actually even part of the original package, so it just kind of got distributed over time. Uh, because it was a huge album. Yes. So for rock specifically, it is difficult. And the reason I say that is because in my YouTube recommended staring at this, even though I don't have to listen to it because I contributed to it, so I know it very well. Um The Knight of the Round uh arrangement. And Knight of the Round is like they're middle. And it's like it's yep, you know, you just turn it, you just turn all the dials to 11 and go ham. You know, that's that's that's how you do it with that. Now, you can turn it up to 10 and stay in rock zone, um, and and still get something good. So what you can so the instead of the stylistic parts that I mentioned. And obviously there's some of that in this because it is edging more toward middle, it's a bit more progressive rock. Like Uamatsu would normally do. Yeah. But the original, um, I'm not gonna talk about the speed that we played it here. Because noticeably, ours is faster. I originally, when I originally conceived of this arrangement, it was the same tempo. Okay. You want to do a rock arrangement of something that's up, you have to find what you can add that will make it yours and make it like you want to hear. So, well, it's still a rock arrangement. It's got a different change up the drums, right? So in this case, the drums are uh for the original dun dun dun dch dun dun dun channel. It's like a bit more plotting, right? So the first thing we can do is go, uh, get the snare on the two where it belongs, get it a little more pep. Um, which isn't what Uamatsu wanted, but that's what we want, because we're trying to like get it a little bit more rocket, right? Yeah. Um and the second thing I did was instead of having it be the the strings, this is the other thing, is the play on a guitar. Okay, have have guitar and bass do that.

SPEAKER_02 2:22:33

Like obviously start with the da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-ex-oh yeah, yeah. That that classic like Final Fantasy bass riff that you just have to have like what I one of the things I love about the consistency of Final Fantasy battle music is that even the non-Uamatsu games will incorporate that bass riff into the battle themes.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:51

Like, yeah, yeah, it's just mandatory. And even the battle themes that Umamatsu had that don't have it directly, he's snuck it in, interestingly, and or he snuck it into the final battle themes.

SPEAKER_07 2:23:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:23:09

Always kind of funny. Because even um, even Birth of a God has it in there, which I it took me years to realize because he really snuck it in there.

SPEAKER_02 2:23:19

Um sneaky, sneaky Uamatsu.

SPEAKER_01 2:23:23

Uamatsu, this sneaky guy. Um, but so so the first thing you'd want to do is is you know make it more guitar-based, is is a way to to kind of make it more rock and and turn whatever the other riff is into a more guitar-based riff. Um, we've already talked about again making the drums a bit more of the rock, which is some people would say the etymology is the rocking back and forth. Rock and roll is is the because you start, you know, going back and forth. Um, and then uh adding space for guitar solos and stuff is also helpful. But um, in in our case, we definitely we picked up the tempo, um, did a little variation on it. So we in uh I forgot about that intro too, and I think that was originally conceived by me too. Instead of going dad to start, we go spa dot, spa dot, spada. Yeah, so like really break it up. Um but you still know what it is, and actually, we probably didn't even have to give it much of a lead lever. If we started it like that and went right into the dad it and dad and yeah, that would have been perfectly recognizable. People, yeah, it's about what you want to do, but I'm just saying, like, those are the those are the things in a rock arrangement you have to like find. It's it's it's more subtle than the other two examples that we've talked about so far. Um, and you can edit this toward the beginning if you want, but disclaimer, I'm not this isn't that the music is is a canvas, these are just some directions you can take your work.

SPEAKER_02 2:24:56

No, I'm I'm pretty sure that these are the rules that are written down.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:59

Yeah, that's right. Actually, you know what? Screw that. I came down from Mount Sinai of rock and I have this tablet. No, I just you know, I don't know. I just felt like the disclaimer was this fine. It's just there's there's a million ways to do it, but this is just a few examples so you could think about it. So for me, it was like, okay, so how do we change it a little bit? Um, so instead of just dad and dun and dun it and dun, so you could do something a little bit different with the bass. Wait, what did I do? Shit. Oh yeah. So you add a little couple extra riffs there, right? So the original version, the second the B part. Um dun and dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun and so instead of just repeating the I did a like da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da. So it's just about like adding little variations. Yeah, yeah. In order to keep it like interpretive, you could keep it as straightforward as you want, but again, in terms of like making a rock remix of something that's already rock, it's about figuring out how you can put your own spin on it.

SPEAKER_02 2:26:03

Right. And like, I mean, I you know, I I've definitely listened to some arrangements where the the rock take on the source track is basically re-perform the source track and then throw in a guitar solo. Um yeah, but that's not what you did here.

SPEAKER_01 2:26:20

No, no, I I mean manner of speaking, but I we I will say this. I have a lot of different arrangements I've done that were just what you said. You change the instrumentation a little bit to make it a little bit more rock like conceivable as what somebody would assume is rock.

SPEAKER_02 2:26:38

Oh, yeah, yeah. Like I'm I'm not knocking that approach. That like I I thoroughly enjoy that approach, but you know, uh definitely that there was uh more what's the word I'm looking for? I don't want to say more effort because I don't want to I like I don't think doing any video game arrangement is uh effortless activity.

SPEAKER_01 2:26:57

Um more considered perhaps? Yeah, um so it's a little bit more meticulous, maybe. I like so I guess what I'm trying to like, I'm not saying you need to do this to get on OCR, but if you're looking for something that will get more Ys than ends, one way to do it is to really dig into the source material and figure out how you can inject yourself into it. You know, really my brain started going down a path, and I'm gonna stop it right there. Um I all I can say is I do like uh envelop me. No, um that's a VGM con joke for anybody who wants to talk to me about it or HEMO. If you listen to this, which you probably won't, you do listen to this hemo DM me so I can be proven wrong. Listener number two.

SPEAKER_02 2:27:48

Um the secret of identity of listener number two revealed.

SPEAKER_01 2:27:54

Um anywho, so so uh I guess the thing is what I've noticed is even in the most basic of rock tunes that you've ever heard, it's very easy to get caught in the trap of, oh, it's just rock, just be loud, just whatever. But we've had this whole podcast and we've talked about it. I would caution against not at least taking a look at the details because it's always some cool little thing. Like it's easy. So if you're by yourself, it's hard because you have to think about it. You just have to remember that these are bands, these were individual musicians in rock music who are making their own decisions sometimes on the fly. So there's usually a little bass lick that catches your ear, there's a little extra guitar thing that catches your ear, there's a a keyboard riff that is just kind of a transition part that in some video game music, now modern video game music obviously is more like that. It's just like here's the arrangement for the most part. You don't have to play it exactly. Professional musicians rock it out. But if you're interpreting some of this older stuff, it doesn't have all of that subtlety just because of time and resources.

SPEAKER_02 2:29:05

Yeah, and it yeah, one thing that has always fascinated me, especially about like 32-bit and earlier, is that like for the most part, the video game music isn't recorded, it's programmed. So like the composer Nubu Nobua Uamatsu was almost assuredly not the person who did the actual like final sequencing of the game in the like PlayStation 1, whatever its equivalent of MIDI was for doing music.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:36

Um maybe he was, but like I yeah, I don't I don't know all. I know there was some music programmers, I think him in particular, he actually did it all himself.

SPEAKER_02 2:29:46

That I you know, I believe that for PlayStation era. Uh, I'm not sure if I don't know what the tooling looked like, is the thing.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:52

Like uh I agree. I I just I rem sorry, I remember an interview with him about the early Final Fantasy stuff where he was he did the music. Oh wow, okay. Well I had to learn how to do this when I did it. I'm only saying that just because it is another thing to think about. Yeah, I do also remember though there were music programmers. So I'm not dissing what you're saying. I'm just in Uomatsu's particular crazy characters.

SPEAKER_02 2:30:14

Okay, perhaps I picked a particularly bad example, but like generally speaking, I think the people doing the music composition and the people turning like whatever uh was composed into the things that the sound chip could actually do weren't necessarily the same people. Yeah, correct. Yeah. So like you know, uh oh, here's a great example of someone I know for sure did his own programming was Yuzo Kushiro. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Uh because I twice started out as a programmer.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:49

Do it now? Oh, Streets of Rage 3. Or no, not you, that's not Yuzo Kushiro, is it? Yeah, yeah. All the Streets of Rage is Yuzo Kushiro. Okay, okay, good. Okay. I was like, wait a second.

SPEAKER_02 2:30:58

Um, but like, so I or um for that matter, uh Jake Kaufman, I know, programs all of his music. Um I'd imagine if you're the composer and you're also programming it, as you're programming it in, maybe you make changes because, like, oh, well, I composed this, you know, on piano, but you know, on this virtual instrument being output by a Game Boy, I think it sounds better if I do this. And so like there might be, I don't want to use the word improvisation because ultimately the Game Boy is gonna make the same sound every time, but like the composer might make changes on the fly as they're programming it. But I feel like if the composer is a separate person from the programmer, maybe the programmer doesn't like have the confidence to do that in their own musical ability, or maybe like they don't want to deviate from what the composer has composed. Anyway, like the whole programmer-composer split thing is a whole thing. I don't really remember how we got on this tangent.

SPEAKER_01 2:32:01

Uh well, I was talking about like detail in the music and just the limitations. And the other thing, too, aside from that, is just because everything was so compressed and all of this stuff, you just kind of lose some of the nuance that would otherwise be there. One thing you could check, uh, folks, I recommend checking out for fun, is there's on the internet now people have found the original patches for like Super Mario World from the keyboards. Yeah. And like those are all uh because SNES is sample-based. Yes. So, you know, you saw the limitations, but it is sampled music, it's not like being it's not like Sega generating the music chip.

SPEAKER_02 2:32:44

Right. It's it's uh not it's it's not synthesized, it's sampled.

SPEAKER_01 2:32:49

Yes. So um, but all of those samples were from something, and those samples were compressed, but then if you listen to it's just an interesting experience because there is nostalgia tells me it's not as good, but there's some subtlety and like little things, it's like, oh, okay, this patch could have sounded like that, but because it's but there's a reason in his infinite wisdom that the sound choices were so relatively simple, like there's not all these orchestral instruments or anything on Super Mario World. That was like the first launch title with the SNES. So he naturally was like, Well, trailblazing. He's like, All right, well, I'm gonna choose these sounds. I have eight sound channels. What will I ever do with myself? Right. So I'm gonna choose basic sounds because you know, he probably knew this is probably gonna turn to crap.

SPEAKER_02 2:33:38

Uh and of course, at the other end of the spectrum, you have someone like Tim Fallen. Uh, and I'm thinking like the Plock soundtrack where Oh my god. Like, oh, actually, I think one sample is going to be like this ninth chord, and we're just gonna get jazzy with it.

SPEAKER_01 2:33:56

Yeah. Fallen, the fallen, I mean. I will say I believe they did have the advantage of having a little bit more time with the software. Yes. Um but that's not to say that it's still not incredible. Like um Plock is a good example. Um, even uh Spider-Man X-Men, like oh my goodness. Um Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends. I bet that's got bangers on it that you wouldn't expect. Uh wait, was that Tim Follow?

SPEAKER_02 2:34:27

Apparently, I just pulled up his wiki. Well, I've got a new soundtrack to listen to.

SPEAKER_01 2:34:33

Uh absolutely. Oh my goodness. Um and then uh Oh he that's right, he did Echo too. Oh yeah, oh wait, Defend of the Future, yeah, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:34:42

Yeah, yeah. Which, to be fair, like I think in terms of a game is my least favorite Echo game, but dang, that's such a good soundtrack. Oh man. Like it's not as um his his like 16 and 8-bit music is very uh holy crap, how did he make an NES do that? Um Yeah, uh and obviously by the by the time the Dreamcast comes around, that's no longer an element of game music because you can just play CD audio now. Um Right. It's still a great soundtrack. Agreed.

SPEAKER_01 2:35:16

But you know, it it is it is just the some of the stuff that that guy I mean, obviously there's the old NES stuff, which is incredible enough, but I I'm gonna go listen to some of that Spider-Man uh and the X-Men one.

SPEAKER_02 2:35:26

I'm gonna listen to Thomas the Tank Engine.

SPEAKER_01 2:35:29

Yeah, I'm gonna go check that out too. But there's a couple of tracks I I need to remind myself of later on. Um but uh that's that's what I'm that's what I'm I guess I'm trying to do is like what makes those things so great is is the is there's a depth to it. And rock music for all how loud and obnoxious it can be, still little things you can get into it um that will make your arrangement different. And particularly like obviously you don't have to worry about that so much when you're doing something like a quarters of time rock version, because quarters of time so ought not rock. Yeah. Right? Um you can kind of just you transitioning it enough in a creative way is is uh miles and miles and miles. But if you're taking something that's already rock and you wanna really stand out, be creative with it, that's what you gotta do. And I guess that's like you know, the subtext of this is because there is this day and age especially a lot of rock arrangements of a lot of different things. So um part of finding your voice is looking in those small sections. Um the reps is important, so do a as many straight ahead rock arrangements as you want. But as you continue on, keep finding those little little places that you can add little things. Um and sometimes you'll forget about 'em. I I opened up a project file today. I didn't know I put that sound in there. So, you know, um, but but that's but you'd be surprised um about what goes in in into that kind of thing. Um we could probably talk for another like two hours on the production end, but this is just about the arrangement part.

SPEAKER_02 2:37:07

Right. That that'll be a separate show. Um Which is uh yeah, I actually I don't I know I know a little bit of music theory. Um I know almost nothing about the production end. So if we want to talk that in the future, I'm game and I will learn a lot.

SPEAKER_01 2:37:23

Yeah, I mean if you uh if we ever do that, I'm sure we could grab like have a couple of people because the reason I would say that is because this is arrangement stuff which is pretty I wouldn't say set in stone, but it's it's a little bit easier to grok, I would think, from a listener's standpoint. Um, but I feel like production stuff is kind of voodoo yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:37:46

Yeah, it's um I'm trying I don't remember who coined the phrase, but I've I've been using it a lot recently. Like everything is a fractal of complexity. Like it uh you know, you you look into making music and you're like, okay, well, I've I've got a melody and now I need to like arrange it with instruments and stuff. But then actually producing that is just like another thousand more detailed decisions you have to make.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:12

Yeah. So about and we kind of got into that here. And that's the kind of again, I I I didn't plan this very hard, but I was like, okay, so we have the obvious electronica to rock, we have the vibey thing to still vibe rock, which is a different advantage, and then we have the this is where you can get really deep into it with the how do you turn something that's already kind of rock into its own original rock arrangement. Um to kind of cap it off, I guess. Power cards.

SPEAKER_02 2:38:40

Power chords. That's that's really it. I mean that yeah, that's everything.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:43

Yeah, honestly, just f everything else power chords. Power cords. All right, no, it's power cards.

SPEAKER_02 2:38:51

I think that's a that's a that's a pretty good uh capstone on it. Um now you know everything about how to write a rock arrangement. And also everything about Mega Man ZX. So go play Mega Man ZX, and also go write yourself a rock arrangement. And now let's get back to the usual I say this stuff every month outro stuff. Uh, if you liked what you heard today, you can get it all free for the download at https at colon slash slash ocremix.org. And while you're there on the main page, there's this drop-down menu that says community, where you can come chat with us on the forums or the discord and probably other platforms also, but those are the two that I'm on. While you're on that main page, if you like giving money to a good cause, go ahead and click on that link that says support us on Patreon. If you want to give money to the podcast specifically, you can do that at HTTPS colon slash slash overclocked remix podcast.buzzstrout.com. The podcast promise is that if I make any money above and beyond the cost of making and hosting the podcast, the rest will be sent over to OCR proper. That's still a dream that's a bit far off, but a man can drink. Our interstitial music this month was Dancing in Kohiri Bottom by Audio Mocha from The Legend of Zelda, Ocarina of Time. And our outro music is See You Next Time, Water, from Final Fantasy V by Dark Sword. We're gonna play out with a remote track from the Remix Roulette on the OC Remix main page. And that track is Alright, that's number two, Hope for the Future by Will Rock from Wild Oz. I hope you enjoyed and see you next time.