Episode 94: AnnaSofia Dickens

AnnaSofia Dickens is a teenage author, singer-songwriter, and flag football player from Southern California who has become a national advocate for the sport she loves. She joins the show to discuss flag football's explosive growth in the US and internationally and her work to grow the game.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

All right, welcome back to On the Ball, the podcast series from the Vanderbilt Sports and Society initiative. I'm Andrew Marinus, and today we are really fortunate to have a guest joining us from California, Anna Sophia Dickens, who's one of the top teen flag football players in the country. Uh and actually globally, she's gonna be uh competing internationally, so we'll learn about that also. She's also a singer-songwriter, and so this Nashville connection uh makes a lot of sense too. So, Anna Sophia, thank you so much for joining us today.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Yes, thank you for having me on. Hi everyone, I'm Anna Sophia. So I'm 16 years old and I've been playing flag football my entire life. I play on the adult women's Swedish national team, and then I also play on the US Select team. And I've been playing with the same group of girls ever since I was in kindergarten. And flag football has always been so much fun for us, but there wasn't a lot of opportunity for girls in the sport growing up. We had to play in a boys' division and we did great in the boys' division, but we really wanted all of our friends and other girls around the country to get the same experience we did too. I was super blessed. My friend's dad was our coach, and he turned out to be one of the best club and national coaches in the entire country. So I was so grateful for that advantage to get to learn all that I learned from under being under him. And so I wanted to share that advantage with girls around the world. So I wrote a book called We Run This House, the first ever girls' guide to flag football. And I introduced, I interviewed so many players and so many people from the sport, like Jared Goff, Andrew Whitworth, Deanna Flores, who's the capitan and quarterback of the Mexican national team, and also Vanita Crouch, who was the quarterback of the USA team the past couple of years. And it's so cool just to see how fast the sport is growing. There's about 4.1 girls, million girls in the nation playing this past season. And there's about 20 million players playing all around the world. So the sport is going super fast, and I'm so excited to get to be a part of it and help the sport grow.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Yeah, that's awesome that you're such a not only a player, but you know, an advocate for the sport and trying to create opportunities for other kids that were out there. So you mentioned you've been playing since kindergarten. What was it that that drew you to the sport? Then were you playing other sports also? And then flag football turned out to be your favorite, or was that like you knew from the very beginning this is going to be my sport?

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Yeah, so I actually with the same group of girls, we played like 10 different sports. We played like soccer, basketball, dance. We did all of it growing up. And flag football was always so fun to us because it was America, it's America's favorite sport. And our dads played football and our brothers play football. And I think just to be able to get to play football alongside them on Friday nights was just such a cool opportunity for us. And like get now that NFL and USA football is opening the gates for women to get to play on these teams too. I think that it was so exciting for girls to show that we can play the sport too, no matter how tough it is. And I think flag football is totally different from tackle football because it's more of a fast paced game. And I think that flag football takes the most fun parts of tackle and puts it into a shorter, more fast-paced game. And um there's more creativity and it's way more fun to play, for especially for girls. Um, but but also for all the people who think flag is just for girls, like hold on, stick around because flag is really there's some really interesting stuff happening with the sport and all the adversity from the different sports pouring into the sport, like you said, is really important. All the money and all these athletes, um, guys and girls want to play. I was actually for my interview, I have a podcast that's gonna be releasing soon. I interviewed Jared Goff and Matthew Stafford, and both of them said that they would be interested in playing flag after they retire. So Matthew said that he would totally want to play. And Jared said that it's such a different sport because the there's rushers, and there are like differences between tackle and flag. But Jared Goff was saying how when he played in the Pro Bowl, there was all these rushers coming at him and he didn't know what to do. And I was like, Yeah, like it's it's a totally different sport, but it's also has it has some of the same qualities as tackle. So um I think growing up, flag really stuck out because it made us feel really cool getting to play and um also position at being be able to play multiple sports, pouring into flag all the skills from from playing soccer. I think that really helped. Um, when I interviewed Andrew Whitworth, he was talking about how important that is to play multiple sports. So that really was a factor as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

Yeah. What positions do you play in Flag?

SPEAKER_00 4:35

I play wide receiver and linebacker, but over the years with club and school and all the different teams I've been playing on. I've been doing like rusher and corner and center, but my main positions is wide receiver and DB.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Okay. And then how have you developed this other side of you that is making these incredible connections with these former Rams players or international players? Uh, mentioned you mentioned the Mexican quarterback. I think I remember seeing her on a commercial that ran during the Super Bowl. I mean, these aren't necessarily the easiest people to get in touch with. I was impressed that, you know, just as 15, 16-year-old, you're reaching out to our uh university and program. How'd you develop the confidence to do that and the ability to make these connections?

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Yeah, so a couple of years ago, I was really just looking like I was just looking into the future, seeing where I wanted to go and seeing who the crowd of people I wanted to be around and all these football players and people in cool industries like Michael Strahan, and I thought they were really inspiring to me. And I wanted them to be kind of the type of people that I wanted to be just like them. And so I think a lot of the people that I got on my interviews for my podcast and people that I got for the I took some of the some excerpts from the podcast and put it into my book, okay. Um, which you can get on Amazon, Barnes and Oval. But um, I a lot of them I just went straight up to them at football events that my team was at. So my club team, we'd be invited to NFL Flag Nationals and um Oakley tournaments and stuff. And there was a lot of like Deanna Flores and Vinita Crouch and Bryce Young was actually at one of the, he's the Panthers quarterback. He was at one of the um flag events. And so I was just like, I'm just gonna go straight up and shoot my shot and just like ask if he wants to be on the on my podcast or in my book. So I just went straight up and I just asked if they wanted to be in it. And a lot of most of them, most almost all of them were pretty successful and were really interested. So a lot of them I just went straight up to. A couple of them were family connections. Um, I have this family friend, Kaylee Hartung, and she's an NFL reporter. And she took my song that I wrote about girls' flag football. It's the theme song for girls and flag. It's called We Run This House. And she took it straight to Roger Goodell and he heard it and they spread it. And Sam Rappapoor, who's the the head of equity, who was the head of equity, including inclusion, and diversity, they just spread my song all around the NFL. And a lot of my connections came through that. Um, just kind of going up straight up to people and emailing straight to colleges and just like trying to get after it, you know, because it's not just come gonna come to me.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Right. So, all right, tell us about this uh songwriting uh process. Had you had you ever written a song before? How did how did this all come about?

SPEAKER_00 7:24

That's a good question because I've been writing songs my entire life. Songwriting and singing and songwriting has always been my like my favorite thing to do besides playing sports. And when I was about 13, I was thinking that I want to merge my two passions together because I couldn't choose one. And I love singing and songwriting, but I wanted to write a song about the growth of flag football and how females and flag is such a powerful movement right now. And so I wanted to like I wanted to write put all of that into a song and then send it to people in the sports world so that I could be like merge my two worlds. And then Roger Goodell asked me to play and perform my song live at the 2024 Pro Bowl. So that was such a cool experience for me. It was one of the coolest things I've ever done. But um, I think that was kind of how I merged my singing with my sports, and hopefully I can continue to do that in the future. But as of right now, I'm just writing songs on my own as like a different path. Um, I've always written songs my whole life and I've always loved to post covers on social media.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Yeah. So I know here in Nashville that uh girls' flag football has been added as a like an official sanctioned sport at the high school level, um, really maybe across the whole state of Tennessee. You see a number of colleges adding flag football as a varsity sport. You alluded to some of the stats about the growth of the game, but um for those who really haven't been following this news, what are we seeing around the country or even around the world in terms of the growth of more opportunities for girls to play the sport?

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Yeah, so what we're seeing is this pathway that's being created for so many girls, but also guys playing flag football. There's so many, like, there's so many ways to get to now that they added to the 2028 Olympics in LA, there's gonna be flag football. So you could really go anywhere with flag football now. Like it's it's finally sanctioned in 24 states. So Ohio just became the 24th state for varsity high school flag football. And um, and now there's about 51 NAIA colleges and about 100 NCAA colleges, which is such a huge thing because now all these kids that are playing flag football now have a place to go after high school. And now they have places to go after playing with their club teams and um sponsorships and um NAI and NIL deals and all these things. So I think that the fact that USA football and NFL flag have made this pathway for people to be actually successful in the sport officially. Um, and now that in the the NCAA committee announced in May that it's gonna be a it's gonna be a national championship in the spring 2028. So now that we're gonna get to play NCAA flag or NAIA flag in college, and then also go try out for the USA national team after and play in the 2028 Olympics. And also in March of this year, NFL partnered with Tomorrow Sports and they are trying to make an NFL Pro League with six girls' teams and six guys' teams, and they donated $32 million. So what's what we're what's gonna happen is after you play college, or if you are not doing the USA track, like the USA pathway, you could go into the NFL Pro League. And so there's so many investors like Tom Brady, Pate Manning, Serena Williams. Um, I think it's just gonna, it's just such a great pathway. It's like almost such a fully developed pathway for anyone who wants to play flag.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Okay, that that's amazing. And as you mentioned with the NFL connections and and college, could you help me understand for those who think this is just for girls, what what are we seeing uh on the boys or the the men's side in the growth of flag football?

SPEAKER_00 11:13

I think the men's side is really cool too. I've played a lot, I played alongside a lot of the men's teams when I go to US US tournaments. Um, I got to I was invited to the national team trials this year. Um I didn't make the top 12, but now I get to then after that I went to the USA Select Bowl, which was this summer, and it's like the top 50 players in the country, and it's boys and girls. And I've gotten to play alongside a lot of the boys, and they are their teams are being developed just as girls' teams are. And I think it's separating a little bit more from the tackle sport so that there's more diversity between the two sports. So there's a lot of really great guy players who are playing, and I think that it's gonna be really fun for both boys and girls, especially since there's boys' national teams and also a boys' national NFL pro league team.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

And people might be surprised. I know I've seen some highlights where there's NFL players playing flag against more veteran flag players. And in a lot of cases, the the flag football players look a little bit better than the NFL players, right? I mean, it's a in some ways it's a it's a different skill.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Exactly. Yeah. I mean, you could also pour, I mean, pouring into any sport. Like I know a lot of girls who are insane and they just started like three months ago. They're just lacking a bunch of those basic flag skills that take you a little bit longer to develop. Like, for example, um, the dip move when you're running and you dip. I have a teammate who has completely mastered that. And it's like tackle players don't do that, they don't need to dip, like, or like this, like the spins or kind of flag football basics that I talk a lot about in my book. Um, but I think that's what kind of difference is like a difference between the two sports as well.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Okay, and you mentioned you're gonna play for the Swedish national team. Um, what's your connection to Sweden and what does that opportunity mean? Like what how are we seeing the sport grow in other countries? Um, and what uh types of competitions exist at the international level?

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Flag football is becoming a huge sport for all of the countries in the world, honestly. And I'm half Swedish, so I'm a Swedish citizen. So when I was out there, I found out there was a flag team and I was in communications with the flag coach for the women's national team over there, and there's actually two American coaches, so it's good. I'm really excited for the whole program. But I tried out and I made the team. I am the youngest on the team, so I'm gonna be competing with them this summer in European tournaments, just not until yeah. So I'm gonna be competing with them this summer. But um, I think in Europe, there's so many good teams that have all played in the international cup in USA, but for the Olympics, only one team can make it from Europe. So I know Sweden's like developing our we're developing our team still, but um, it's gonna be a real challenge to get into the Olympics with all the competition with all the other European teams, but there is becoming programs in all the countries, and 20 million players all over the world are playing flag football, and it's all pouring into the Olympics in 2028. So you're gonna see a lot of diversity when it comes to all the different types of people playing flag. Um, I met so many friends this summer from different countries, and it was actually a really cool experience. But yeah, so I'm Swedish, and that's how I tried out for the team, and it was it's been such a cool experience.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Wow. Um, like when you look ahead to your own future, you've obviously developed such a platform and a presence in this world beyond your playing days. Is this a do you envision yourself as like a future commissioner of this sport or a broadcaster? Or like you, this is something you're doing now, and later you want to become a doctor or a teacher or like something completely different. Like, where does flag football fit in your life in the future? Do you anticipate?

SPEAKER_00 15:11

I think recently I started to really think about how flag football could be such a life for me, you know, such a life for so many people for a lot of years. I think that after college, I definitely want to continue playing, hopefully for national teams, whether it's Sweden or USA, I definitely want to keep playing flag and hopefully for these NFL pro teams. Um, so I think that definitely could be a path. But I also, a huge goal of mine is to be like a global flag ambassador as like a profession. Um, when I'm older, I think that could be really cool. I know Ashley Clam, who's on the USA national team, she does that, and it's such a cool job. It looks like she's she's doing so good at it, and that's one of my goals. Maybe work for the NFL flag department. That would be really cool. But also maybe continue my singing songwriting career as well.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Awesome. All right, we got to get you to Nashville for that. So um let's say they're uh kids watching this, they want to give flag a shot. There's parents watching this, they're interested in getting their kids involved. What are the easiest pathways for somebody that's not already in this world to get started? Like, what are your recommendations uh for newcomers to flag football?

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Well, the truth about flag football is that anyone can play. I talk about this so much in my book, but all you need is just one partner to pass with. And that's how you slowly build your skills. You one partner to pass with, one partner to practice pulling flags. It's so easy to learn the sport, especially the rule book, since all you got to do is turn on your TV, go to ESPN and the NFL network and watch an NFL game. And it's practically the same sport. There's just a couple different rules. So I think that like learning the sport is so easy because it's so closely connected with the NFL. Um, and the fact that anyone can play really helps a lot of people join the sport. Um, just get a partner, get four other friends, all you need for a team's team of five, and find some people to scrimmage against. And that's how you play flag. It's it's such a unifying game that you can play with your whole community. And um, I'm really happy about the sport and I really hope that everyone starts playing flag football.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

All right. If people are interested in in following what you're up to, uh finding your book, finding your song, what's the best way for people to connect with you?

SPEAKER_00 17:30

My Instagram and TikTok is at Anna Sophia Dickens, and my book is We Run This House, Girls' Guide to Flag Football, and you can get it on Amazon or find it in Barnes and Noble bookstores. Um, but yeah, that's where you can find me.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

All right. Anna Sophia, thank you so much uh for joining the show and for spreading the word about this uh really fun sport that is um growing so much uh at all levels in all ages around the country and around the world. And uh congratulations to you on um figuring out a way not just to enjoy yourself, but to to make something more of it, to grab the attention of so many important figures in the in the football world. Um and best of luck to you. We'll be watching you in these international competitions.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

All right, take care.