On The Ball with Andrew Maraniss
"On The Ball with Andrew Maraniss" is a captivating podcast that explores the intersection of sports, culture, and politics through thought-provoking conversations. Hosted by Andrew Maraniss, bestselling author and director of the Vanderbilt Sports & Society Initiative, the podcast features a diverse lineup of guests—including athletes, authors, activists, and thought leaders—who bring unique perspectives on topics ranging from sports history and social justice to personal resilience and current events. Whether you're a sports fan, history buff, or curious thinker, "On The Ball" is your ticket to meaningful dialogue and inspiring storytelling.
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On The Ball with Andrew Maraniss
Episode 98: Darren Ambrose
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Vanderbilt women’s soccer coach Darren Ambrose had a front-row seat at the World Cup, serving on the field maintenance crew at the championship game. He joins the show to discuss this once-in-a-lifetime experience, allegations of FIFA corruption, and the differences in the growth of men’s and women’s soccer in the U.S.
Welcome back to M on the Bum of the Podcast series from the Vanderbilt Sports and Society initiative. I'm Andrew Marinus. And today I'm really excited to be joined by two familiar faces on this podcast Associate Athletic Director Ricky Thrash and Vanderbilt Women's Soccer coach Darren Ambrose. Darren coming off preseason number one ranking in SEC Women's Soccer, led the team to lead an eight appearance last year, but had even on top of that, great news, just an unbelievable experience over the last couple of weeks.
SPEAKER_03That is Germany. No, that's Germany, Ecuador.
SPEAKER_02Germany, Ecuador.
SPEAKER_03That was my debut. That was my debut.
SPEAKER_02That was your field maintenance debut holding a bucket, getting soaked, getting soaked.
SPEAKER_00In the historic New York, New Jersey Stadium.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so we'll be assured to abide by all uh rules in terms of uh stadium names. So Darren, why are you standing in the middle of the pitch holding a bucket? What's the story here?
SPEAKER_03Um, so our our groundsman here several years ago, three years ago, uh Tyler Morris actually left Vanderbilt. He's our grounds guy, did a great job in in elevating our fields here, just really, really impressive. And he left here to go become the basically the field manager for the giant for the for MetLife Stadium. And Tyler and I have stayed in touch over the years and since he left. I've asked his advice and things, checked in how he's doing. And when the World Cup came around, I actually asked him, could I buy tickets through the organization as opposed to the daylight robbery of SeatGeek and other places? And he said, Well, why don't you just come work? I said, What? He said, Yeah, we'll see if we can get you accredited and get on the ground, staff. I I can hire people to come and do field maintenance and you know pitch preparation. I was like, sign me up. Where do I do that? And and honestly, full credit, Tyler. He assembled a bunch of guys whose job it is is to grow grass at the highest level and look after stadiums, and then he had me. And I was I was the balancing act. So I I went up for three games. Um, Germany, Ecuador, England, Panama, and very fortunate for me, I I got the final, which was unbelievable. So that was my job. There, there I'm at in my finest hour. Picking up grass, picking up bubblegum. Picked up, I'm pretty sure I picked up Harry Kane's bubblegum at some point or his chewing gum. Pretty sure I could have sold that for a lot of money.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I hope you didn't throw that away. You gotta put that on eBay or something.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, did you bring home any blades of grass or or anything? Three pieces.
SPEAKER_03There are three pieces of sod from the field growing in a planter in my front yard. I loaded them into a bag. I got stopped at TSA checkpoint on the way through, and then opened up my bag, and there's three pieces of grass in a plastic bag, and I had to explain what it was. Um got home, put them in a planter. I already have to trim them with scissors because the grass has grown already. It's amazing. So, yeah, I got I got mementos, I got a piece of the net. There's a story behind that too. Um Spain cut the net down, and uh uh uh when they were done, they kind of Spain clipped off with their families, and there was a guy with a knife. Uh, one of the photographers wanted a piece, and I ended up over there and he gave me the knife. I cut him a piece, and then I just started cutting the rest of the net and giving it to I put a piece in my pocket, got a big piece of the net, and then I was giving it to all the photographers and people that were behind the adboards because they didn't have field access. So I ended up cutting with this pen knife all that what was left of the net, and there was a good chunk left, and handing it to different people behind the adboards. Amazing. Got a few necklets, got some confetti, got gold confetti. That green penny that I'm wearing right there. I have it. Uh, I have that too. I have uh pieces of sod, and um, I also have a red card as well, which um well let's let's talk about red card.
SPEAKER_02So, for those of some people are listening to this, they can't see these photos, others are watching the YouTube video. There's a picture of you holding a red card in between two young women. What's going on in this picture here?
SPEAKER_03It's funny because I've got the red card turned the wrong way. Um on the other side of that are embossed in gold, the the names of the officials. Um this was the Germany Ecuador game, and it was the first all women's crew to take charge of a group game, uh, I believe. And the referee in pink here is Tori Penso, and I've had one red card in my 34 years of coaching, and it was at the SEC tournament in 2022. I completely deserve the red card. In fact, I probably should have been put in jail for what I said. Um, Tori, Tori took the brunt of an emotional outburst. Um, didn't agree with the call, but I didn't handle it well. And um, she gave him a red card. I haven't seen her since then. I walk out onto the field before the game, and guess who's in the middle? It's Tori Pencil. And Brooke, the young lady to the right in black, is actually a lines and assistant referee who does a lot of our games here at Vanderbilt. Brooke is someone we know and respect. So saw them on the side on the middle of the field, and I walked up to Tori and said, Hey, remember me? And she looked at me and she's like, I said, Red Card SEC tournament 2022. I just like, oh yes, I remember you. So then we had a great conversation. I apologized, um, made Sherry happy, my wife, because she's always felt I should have apologized for what I said. Um and she she gifted me, and Brooke gifted me the joy of an honorary red card on the field at the World Cup. So I now have that too.
SPEAKER_02So I've got two more pictures to walk through here. So these one's a selfie with the field about 10 feet behind you, the other you're basically participating in a corner kick. Yeah. What was it like for someone who maybe dreamed as a kid of playing in the World Cup to be that close to the field during these matches?
SPEAKER_03It was wild. Um, I I went to the 1994 World Cup. I've been to both World Cup finals in the United States, 1994 and this one. 1994 was at the Rose Bowl, and I bought Claudio Reyner's ticket from him outside the stadium. Uh Claudio was on the men's national team at the time, and he was he was roommates with one of my best friends at the time at UVA. And I was working camp in in Long Beach for a camp company, a soccer company, and he took me to the final. I bought his ticket. I have a picture. I actually have a picture of me and Claudio Reyna uh with his girlfriend that became his wife, Danielle, buying his ticket. And I sat up with Claudio's dad all the way up at the top behind one of the goals. So this one, far better seats. Um, I actually have video of Argentina coming out of the tunnel, England coming out of the tunnel out of the dressing rooms because they were probably 15 feet from our office where we sat. But this was one of my seats in the game. Uh my seats, I stood behind the ad boards. I actually got all the way behind the goal, which is the the one on the right. You can see that's the final. Um, right at where the 18-yard line meets the end. So I had an unbelievable view of any action this side. It was just all game, just being able to be and taking the noise too, and the the crowd. So, yeah, I've got loads of pictures of you know, that's the the corner at the end of the Panama game where England were wrapping up the game. I was behind the goal for the Jude Bellingham corner kick goal that was went in. So, yeah, just unbelievable. I I really am so grateful for for the experience.
SPEAKER_02Are you someone who I mean all your decades in soccer? Could you still get starstruck seeing anyone? Was there one moment that stands out like you're like, I can't believe this is me right now?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, sure. Well, when Harry Kane first walked down, Jordan Pickford came out from for England, obviously, and I was literally standing there probably 10 feet from when they came out of the dressing room the first time. And I've I've taken video of that and and was fortunate to get that. And then when Messi, when Messi showed up, I did the same thing. I was you know 10 feet away, and I and he brought the team together before they went out to warm up, and they said something I didn't understand, but I got the idea and rallied the troops and out they went for the final. So, yeah, when you see those people, it's kind of like, oh wow, yeah. The you know, but what's what's really interesting is well, first of all, that's the corner where I have the sod from. So where he's taking the corner, that is actually where I picked up loads of chunks of sod. But what was really cool was actually afterwards seeing the players just be players turning into families, and just being a guy that sat with his mom and his kids, or his wife, or his girlfriend, like Lamille Umar, right there with his girlfriend with the trophy. It's just like another object they're carrying around. But watching the humanity of them after the two hours after the game, everyone had gone except for some FIFA reps and the grounds crew, which was ours and all the Spanish players and their families. And the thing that struck me was how young some of these guys are. You can't tell from the stance when you go down and you sit amongst them, they look it could be my kids, like they are young, and they are on the biggest stage in the world at 19, 20 years old, 18, 19, 20. I mean, some of them looked like they'd barely started shaving. It was it was really touching to see them with their mom and just sitting and enjoying the moment. And we just wandered around amongst them, you know. And if they were wandering around going between families, you know, I took a picture with asked you and I, the goalkeeper to take a picture, and he had they all obliged. I had pictures with four or five players, they were very graceful, um and very, very open to it. Um, full credit to them. But it that was the one thing that that left I left with was the size of the event and all the things that go into it and seeing them, but then at the end, my last takeaway was watching them just be people on a field, running with their kids, taking pictures, um, sitting on the ground like they're having a picnic. It was that was kind of really eye-opening. Um, because we don't see that, we just don't see that very often. And that was one thing I won't forget in a hurry.
SPEAKER_02Wow, that's amazing. Well, Ricky, I know as our resident uh soccer expert here in the building, um you have a number of questions that you wanted to ask, Darren, also observations of your own on the World Cup. So I'll I'll turn it over to you here for uh the next segment here of this this interview, Ricky. Take it away.
SPEAKER_03Be it be it one and be it two, right here. Here we go.
SPEAKER_00That's uh Andrew. Come on, man, step it up. You gotta join the club. You gotta join the club. Coach, um thanks first of all, thanks for sharing you know your pictures, your stories, because that's I mean, that's absolutely phenomenal. I I think you're gonna be undefeated in any icebreaker around two truths and a lie. Like yeah, I don't know how many people are gonna believe you got a selfie with Lamin Yamall holding, you know, the World Cup, yeah, the World Cup trophy, you know, uh and talking to his girlfriend in the background. Yeah. Did you did you feel like just being, you know, first of all, I guess being on the field like that, like being a coach, like how does that feel? Like, how did you kind of take that in? Like, did you ever find yourself like um was there ever like a blurred line where you're like that's not a foul, or like you know, like kind of the the coach's instinct or your view of the game took over while you were down there?
SPEAKER_03No, it it was it was actually refreshing just to take in the environment. And you're not in a place to really make any uh you can't see the game fully because of where you are, so you're you're limited in what you can see at the other end, and it was interesting to see some of the diving up close and personal. You could see it. I mean, it was like okay, get up. I get mad at the TV when I'm watching that, and you can tell. Yeah, it it is faster than you realize down there when they do get fouled that you have to hesitate for a minute. Was that a foul? Did they dive? And even the dives do look for a second like, hmm, you know, was that that there are some that you you do pick out? Okay, come on, man, get up.
SPEAKER_00Come on, yeah, that's that's awesome. I think you know, for me, um, yeah, as just a spectator watching everything on television, watching everything on social media, like really immersing myself into uh into the World Cup and into the spectacle of everything. Um one of the things that really struck me, and I mean you touched on this too, but like just how many times do we have opportunities to come together, like just as human beings around, you know, around the sport. Um, so many things really flashed as like, you know, just uh really hilarious or heartwarming, you know. Um, but one of the things that really stood out, and and I know we've got a bit of a department connection too, was Scotland and you know the what are they the tartan army and how they took over uh took over Boston. I think they drank all the beer in Boston. Uh if if uh I think yeah, like Sam Adams was like, we literally don't have any more beer. But uh, I know we also have uh Coach Langdale, he has a connection to he's from Scotland and was able to participate. I don't know if you're able to share much of his perspective or if he shared any stories with you about that.
SPEAKER_03So I was really happy that he decided to go. I think you know the first thing about I mean Scotland haven't been in it in I want to say is it 28 years, something like that. 20. So I remember when Scotland were in it last. Um, I also remember watching Scotland in 1978, uh on TV when it was in Argentina. Like I remember that too. It's it's weird, but yeah, Callum was just glad when he went up in his kilt and he sent pictures back to us of it. I was just really, really happy for him. The thing about the Scottish is they know the team's not very good, so they know regardless, they're just gonna go for a good time. The low there's a low bar for Scotland, right? So there's no love loss between the English and the Scottish. So even Callum, even Callum, even Callum, when we were playing Argentina the day before, uh said, you know, hey, let's go messy. And I'm like, shut up, man, come on. I mean, Scotland's I mean Scotland's favorite team is whoever England's playing, I guess. So I so Callum had a great time. He sent some pictures, and it actually was cool because I I decided Madison, my daughter, lives in Boston, and um one of her part-time jobs is giving historic bar crawl tours of Boston, and she was like blown away by the just the sense of humor. And when they, you know, one of the one of them found out she was English and they made her go stand in the corner. True story. I mean, um you know, so so I actually bought a ticket for she and I to go to the Scotland Morocco game, and I wanted to experience it because I just think rarely ever in our world do you get to see a nation come together in another country. You may go to England and see it, you may go to Holland and see it, you may be in the US and feel that patriotism, but rarely do you see it at that magnitude and depth of feeling in another country. Someone else is coming in and and suddenly Boston is Scottish and they've got a sister city in you know in Glasgow all of a sudden.
SPEAKER_00Right, right.
SPEAKER_03The sense of humor, the banter, the the pride, the national pride that was exhibited by just about every nation is heartwarming, and yet not in a we're better than you, um, looking down on you, celebrating who they are and and their their their country and their proud moments, and doing it with others. When I was up there for the Morocco Scotland game and listening to the songs and you know, and being a part of it, and then running in some Scottish fans and seeing the cones all over the city on different things. Um, that's called civil disobedience. That's what they were doing. That's what they that goes back to the Scottish days, and and you know, um, but just getting a sense of pride that they had. One of the most touching moments of the entire World Cup for me was being in that stadium in Boston when the Scottish fans sang Flower Scotland when they sang their anthem. It was goosebump moment. I and I mean it, it was it was so incredible, and yet also at the same time, the dancing with the Moroccans, and you know, there's no violence, there's not it, it's just a celebration of the game belongs to the world, and and and we own this part of it, and we're gonna play our part. And it's just it's it's unlike anything that I saw it in '94 with the Dutch in Orlando. I I you know they was just hilarious. The Dutch this time, the the the great big orange, another one, the Norwegians, the row. I mean, everyone in the world now knows what the row is, right?
SPEAKER_00It's it's incredible.
SPEAKER_03How do you how do you explain that other than just again the reach of the game and the passion? It's owned by the fans. And and I think that's what was I took away from the world cup was the ability of countries to be heard and seen in a positive light in a in a in an era and a time when we're all struggling for for good things.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think you know, so much about um kind of the buildup to the World Cup was really, you know, and rightfully so, you know, revolving around a lot of the political situations, um, both in the US, uh, abroad. Um, and really, you know, FIFA is an organization that I feel like is um rightfully so, uh it takes a lot of heat and uh is is uh is never is never um free from allegations of corruption and things like that. But one of the you know the the new field uh being expanded, we're we've now got what is it, 60 48 to 64 potential. Yeah, to 60, yeah. And you know the last team to make it in um in in a lot of ways was was was Cape Verde. And uh to see the run that they went on, it it really man, it really solidified. And I wonder what you think about like does this mirror the growth of the game that we now have this number of countries that can be represented and be competitive. We're talking about a team in Cape Verde that they didn't lose, they're the only team that Spain wasn't able to beat, you know. Um, you know, on their way to on their way to victory. What are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_03I do. I think as much as I I am at odds with FIFA over a lot of things as a fan and as a person who has spent his entire life, my entire career has been from when I was five to kick a ball to to where I sit today, has been the game. And and at all levels, at all levels. Um, I do agree it's time to give others a chance. I I I was skeptical about the 48, but it was very quickly blown away and like blown out the door. Like, no, this is a good thing. Like, we've got more nations, we've got players. The other thing is a lot of those players are are good because they're playing in all these other domestic leagues, they're not playing in their country, they're they're they're growing, but the way you're gonna grow the game in their country is to create idols and heroes and role models for those kids in those countries to look up to to continue to play and grow the game into maybe their own league. Um, so I I I do, I I I think it was a good thing. Now, I don't know about 64, but certainly 48 is yes, uh, and I think it proved this year that it's I think we've all got like this this hangover of no more world cup to watch. You know, the the the the length of it, but it sustained everybody's interest. The games were not there was one game, Germany was the one game that's was seven something, seven, one, seven, zero. The one game, everything else was pretty, pretty close, and some arguably upsets. Spain tying against them, world champions tied against them. I it shows the the the it's a level, it's a game that anyone can win. The best team doesn't always win, the fastest team, the biggest team, the strongest team doesn't always win this sport, and I think that's the beauty and the attraction for fans, quite frankly. So I I am a fan of that. I'm just not exactly in agreement with the way the political fallout is it seems to follow FIFA everywhere. Yeah. Now, as we know, we've just created another big problem trying to sell part of it.
SPEAKER_00So it's ridiculous, yeah. And that's that's um, you know, for those who don't know, um, or maybe listening at home and and and have tuned out of soccer, uh, FIFA. Once again, just we cannot escape uh any of these allegations of of just blatant right in front of your face corruption. We're now planning to sell part of uh part of the organization in the World Cup to private equity, essentially, um to just openly it looks like openly take bribes, but uh there's been some pushback from a lot of the different um world federations and UEFA's said that they'll boycott, yeah, uh, which would be all the teams in Europe.
SPEAKER_03Um I think the fans would support that. And I think the CONCACAF, and I think the fans support it. The fans and the the statement that you made that basically said this is the people's game and you don't get to sell it. And you mark think, well, we've got a great thing going, but you don't get to sell the game. It's not, it's owned by people. And I just thought it was a great statement. Um, I I bet fans would support the boycott all over the world.
SPEAKER_00I agree. You know, and it's so it's so interesting because I think, you know, a lot of the buildup uh to the World Cup, I think we were focused. I was focused, and I remember having conversations with Andrew and being worried about um, you know, when is enough enough? And are we are we pushing people, the fans, out of it and away from the game. Yes. When you learn about how much the tickets are potentially gonna cost, um, you know, luckily, thankfully, it ended up being too almost too big to fail, too, too much too big, you know, to it could overcome a lot of this corruption by um by FIFA. But um what one one issue in particular was at the heart of uh everybody that I know, you know, and kind of how they experienced it, how they watched it. And that was, I mean, you know, you it sounds like your red card was a little less controversial or a little less yours wasn't as borderline as Flo Balogun's red card. Yeah, that's that's talking point.
SPEAKER_03It's unfortunately a stain that could have been managed without political influence, I think. And I think that's the I feel bad for the for the US team. I really do, and I feel bad for Balogun because he didn't, I don't know that he wanted that. And I think it was you're playing with a spotlight on you, and you've brought undue pressure onto a team that's already under pressure, yeah. And and I I feel bad for the US because I I genuinely I think most of us believe that US team was capable, yeah, even without Balogun, that would have been a better game. Um, and the US had had just as good a chance of of winning. Um, and I think they immediately tipped the scales. The the spotlight and the swirling noise around that the team that that that game must have been overwhelming. Um, you know, so I do feel for them. Uh I really do. And it's a shame that that's kind of one of the things, the one of the talking points after the after the event. Um you know, some obviously the we can argue and talk all we want about the political sidebars of of Iran's treatment of the referees that weren't given visas. There's there's some things there that just didn't seem to this kind of left a little bad taste in people's mouths, but again, would argue overall the the the on-field product was fun the way that the the the the social media that that showed the fans and showed the stories of fans and Freddie the German who traveled all over the country, yeah, right, was invited in by everybody, he's got like a million something followers all of a sudden, and you know, I think that was the highlight where the stories came out.
SPEAKER_00I agree, I agree, and you know, and it's um it's a beautiful thing, and I think a lot of people are you know, maybe maybe this is a chance to bring Andrew back into the conversation. Like, let's get Andrew because I feel like Andrew embodies just like um very similar, the average, the most average person I can think. No, I'm kidding. But no, Andrew from the standpoint of uh, you know, you're not bringing a lot of baggage to this. It's just uh that's a nice way. That's a great infamous. Yeah, you don't have any bias, yeah. You don't have any baggage. You you're just you're a blank slate, man. You're a blank slate, you're just you're drinking it in. You're drinking it in.
SPEAKER_03Let's ride on that blank slate right now.
SPEAKER_00How do we how do we uh how do we ride this wave? How do we keep the momentum going? Yeah, Andrew, did you enjoy the World Cup? Is this is the sport, is the game something that is your interest peaked? Do you want to continue this uh this relationship with soccer?
SPEAKER_02I love the World Cup. Um so the type of fan I represent perhaps is the fan that does get into the World Cup, whether it's the Men's World Cup or the Women's World Cup or the Olympics, and I kind of compare it to Olympic hockey. Like I don't have a not a huge Predators fan, I don't have a favorite NHL team. But when the Olympics come around as someone that was uh 10 years old at like when Lake Placid took place, you know, like that captured my attention, and I've loved Olympic hockey ever since. So I'm that type of casual fan that's learning these players' names that are so familiar to hundreds of millions of people around the world. Like the World Cup is when I learn who they are. I feel like the games are really exciting. I love the fan support and the environment and the atmosphere that is created at these World Cup games. But I don't know if I went out to just a high school field with 200 people watching the game and there's no excitement that I would um find that as fun. Do you know what I mean? Like I hate to admit that, but that that's kind of where I am. So um I do think that there's an opportunity to turn a fan like me through the World Cup and that excitement and make it where it's not just every four years, but like how do I continue to engage with the game? I'm rooting for that, but it hasn't happened yet.
SPEAKER_03How do we fill the void in Andrew's life that he doesn't know? Well, what was your team? Who was your team, Andrew? Who was the did you find yourself like rooting for somebody?
SPEAKER_02It was game by game. I was always rooting for the underdog, like in whatever game it was, you know. Yeah, um and I you you let me borrow a book called Relegated, which is an American uh tour through Great Britain and and seeing soccer at all levels of the game. And I I love that, you know. I could if I could go on that tour, I'm I'm sure I would love it, you know, and just seeing how much it means to people in these smaller communities. I don't like when I I'm wearing a Milwaukee Brewers shirt right now, like as we're recording this. The Brewers and the Packers and Vanderbilt, I feel like are a part of who I am, and I feel like I would be a fraud adopting a new team in a sport that I'm just learning where it hasn't been a part of who I am forever. And that maybe that's something I need to get over. But I even feel that way with the predators. Like I didn't grow up with that. I I feel like there are people that are have been uh hardcore Preds fans since the year they started, '98, whatever it was, and that I would just be jumping on the bandwagon and I feel uncomfortable with the Will Ferrell band.
SPEAKER_03I was saying you have a place on the Will Ferrell bandwagon. Yeah, the potato chip commercial. Yep, you've got um so no, I I I still think that um it's to do with like if you went to a couple of Nashville SC games and you got to know Surridge and Mukhtar and some of the personalities, you may and you feel the excitement because I you know I'm putting a plug in here for you know for Nashville. I've I was a season ticket holder and until I just couldn't keep up going to all the games, but still like to see them doing well. BJ's a friend of mine, the head coach. Like, if you knew the personalities, you may find and you saw the fans and the excitement, you may find yourself more drawn to it. Um, as you went to England and went to one or two of these clubs and got to know the what it means to people, you may find a connection that you didn't know you had. I think a lot of it is deeply cultural for people. Um, I think that they find a connection early on, and it usually is familial, especially if you're in Europe and you live in a town or a city, right? Yeah, but the globalization of the game. I ask people all the time, well, why are you a villa fan? Why are you a Tottenham fan if you're a US resident? And they've got a story. Some people have a genuine story. I went to London or I saw this person, or I first place I went, there's there's a connection in some way, shape, or form, and it just grows.
SPEAKER_02Um, you know, so I think a trip to Europe, I think is what needs to happen.
SPEAKER_03I think that sounds about right. I'll go with it. Let me be a guide. We're going.
SPEAKER_02Okay, let's go to some in person, and then I'll then I'll be hooked. No doubt. Darren, I wanted to ask you a question too before uh as we wrap up. Um every year it seems like after the World Cup, there's all these discussions in the US about like how do we compete at the highest level on the men's side, and there's a lot of talk this year, especially about the cost of travel soccer, club soccer. Um, but I assume that those costs are there on the women's side too. And we are at the top of the heap when the women's world cup rolls around. Like, what do you see as the um well, first of all, as a coach, the girls that eventually make their way to Vanderbilt, have they participated in this costly system? Are are you seeing um avenues limited and who can pursue this dream as a as a college student athlete? And what do you see as a solution to uh getting our best athletes uh playing soccer and complaining playing at the highest level on the men's side?
SPEAKER_03I think that the men's is a different animal. I we always think it's the same sport, right? It's not quite, it's the same size field, it's the same ball, same rules generally. But when it comes to the development process, and um, I think what we've got to remember is that the men's game has been around for 150 years or more. And when you go that deep into it, there there are there are it's such a historic cultural tradition. And you England's a great example. I was I listen, I left there in 1989, and one of the funny things about my background actually, truthfully, is that my aunt is the one who took me to Bramble Lane to watch Sheffield United because she played on a women's team, but it was like underground, like you didn't see women playing. I went to Bramwell Lane with three women, my aunt's two friends, and her. Most people didn't have that experience. They grew up as young boys with their dads, and you know, they there it was not a pay-for-play system. The geography of the United States makes it's our strengths, but it's our weakness in the development of this game. We're so big, we have so many different geograph elements, climate. I mean, there's all kinds of development of things, but also we don't have a central system really trying to identify these players. A lot of inner city kids, similar to basketball, some of the most talented players are coming from you know from less less fortunate backgrounds, and they can't afford to pay the right to pay the fees. Frankly, that's where a lot of the best players are coming from on the men's side a lot of the time. Um you got around on the women's side, the US was the one of the first countries to actually adopt women's soccer as a as a as a as a sport. In college, we have college sports, we've had college soccer for for over 40 years, and obviously in the last you know, 15-20 years in particular, it's it's grown and now is rivaling pro leagues. So we've had this development system in the US for women that none of the other countries in the world have really had. So we're already ahead in the women's game. We were ahead by significant stretch. And now what's happening is that the gap between the US women's game in the pro structure is starting to go. We still lead the way in facilities and stadiums and um uh opportunities for women. We really do. But I would say that from my knowledge and conversations with people, the women's game in Europe and and you know, you go out to the to the east as well, into China, Japan, and they've always been good. South America, look at the Brazilian uh culture and around their men's game is transferred to the women's game. So I think that I'm what I'm very curious about in this next 10, 20 years is as the rest of the world invests in women's soccer. There's a depth to the sport in other countries that I still think we're we're reaching for here in the US. And even on the women's side, we've just happened to be further ahead very early. And now it's can we continue to grow the depth of this um and stay ahead, quite frankly. Um but we we were out of the gates early on the women's side, the rest of the world was way behind in opportunities for women, so cultural win for the United States, I think.
SPEAKER_01I see, I see land of opportunities. Ricky, let you wrap it up here, man.
SPEAKER_00Andrew, I got one last closing statement that I want to make. And I feel like, well, two things. One, I don't think you're poser and you're lame if you pick a team and you get on board if you want to do that. As long as that team is not Arsenal. If you pick Arsenal, you're lame. But other than that, that's cool. Pick a team and get into it if you want to get into it. Maybe find a player that you liked and follow. And speaking of the players, you know, that to me, that's my closing kind of sentiment when thinking about the World Cup and sitting down and watching these matches with my dad, who like is, you know, not into soccer at all, and some of the conversations that we had around how global the game is, but also um the impact of, and this is you know, we could probably do a whole nother podcast about this, but just the impact of the African diaspora and the way that you see it in the sport, and and you see these teams that all across the world, um, you see players that you see maybe the most diversity you ever see represented in a country uh is represented in that team. And it just the way that you see geopolitics and history and all of these things so intertwined in a soccer team, in a football team, and and and the people who are representing these different countries, it blew me away. And it it sparked so many conversations with my dad and so many interests that have been peaked. And man, I'd love to read more and learn more about um you know, like different countries. And there you go. Boom! What a plug! What a plug.
SPEAKER_03How soccer explains I did not write this book. How soccer, how soccer explains the world, an unlikely theory of globalization. So that's the next one, Andrew. I'll be filtering to you. All right, but Ricky, I agree with you. I think it's it's it's it's how that's also reflected back into the fan base, right? What you see on the field and the diversity and the passion, and it's reflected back. And at the same time, the teams are lifted by the passion of the fans. Um, I will also say if anyone's interested in understanding FIFA, there's a Netflix documentary called Greed. If you haven't watched it, watch it. There's a guy from The Guardian a few years ago. They also explained how FIFA grew and how their corporate partnerships grew and how the game grew, and and then how it became when money got involved at that level, how it became corrupt and how bribes were, and it goes through the whole thing. It's a phenomenal documentary, it really is. It's called, I believe it's called Greed. Um, but yeah, there's there's a lot more to come for the game. I I think starting starting on West End with the women's soccer team at Vanderbilt. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go.
SPEAKER_02Everybody can buy their tickets and uh support this team. It's rank number one heading into the season. Darren, um, Ricky, thank you. This has been uh a great conversation. Look forward to many more conversations like this in the future as you guys pull me along and uh who knows I'll have my favorite team be besides the Commodores uh here.
SPEAKER_03There you go. Thanks, guys. Enjoyed it always.
SPEAKER_02Take care, guys. All right.