On The Ball with Andrew Maraniss
"On The Ball with Andrew Maraniss" is a captivating podcast that explores the intersection of sports, culture, and politics through thought-provoking conversations. Hosted by Andrew Maraniss, bestselling author and director of the Vanderbilt Sports & Society Initiative, the podcast features a diverse lineup of guests—including athletes, authors, activists, and thought leaders—who bring unique perspectives on topics ranging from sports history and social justice to personal resilience and current events. Whether you're a sports fan, history buff, or curious thinker, "On The Ball" is your ticket to meaningful dialogue and inspiring storytelling.
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On The Ball with Andrew Maraniss
Episode 99: Leadership Through Boxing
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Vanderbilt sociology professor and former US Olympic Boxing Coach Dr. Christy Halbert introduced an unusual course last semester: Leadership Through Boxing. Students strapped on gloves, put on headgear, and challenged themselves like never before. Two students even took what they learned in the classroom and applied it in a collegiate boxing tournament. Dr. Halbert and students Katerina Krizner, William Masferrer, and Wyatt Levi join the show to discuss how the experience taught lessons on courage, compassion, and community.
Okay, welcome back to On the Ball, the podcast series from the Vanderbilt Sports and Society initiative. I'm Andrew Barinist, and we are really fortunate to have four guests with us today to talk about what I think is just a really fascinating subject. And it's uh I have to believe the first boxing class, boxing-related class on the Vanderbilt campus, where kids actually had a chance to put on the gloves and spar a little bit, and it's been inspiring to see uh how this has all come together. So we're gonna have Christy Halber, uh the faculty member who who taught this class, who has a rich history in boxing herself, uh Katerina Christner and William Mass Ferrer, who were uh students in this class who actually then took the skills they learned and entered uh a boxing competition, a national competition for college students, and Wyatt Levi, who was in this class and who has also now started his own boxing club. So what an amazing uh group. Thanks everybody for joining us today.
SPEAKER_03Thank you for having us. Thank you so much. Thanks.
SPEAKER_04Pleasure to be here. Wyatt, you're in uh the mountains of West Virginia. Katerina William, you're in uh Washington, D.C. or Katerina's about to start law school, is that right?
SPEAKER_02Yes, it is.
SPEAKER_04And Christy, are you here in Nashville? Are you in a in your gym or in the classroom? Where are you today?
SPEAKER_02I am. I'm in I'm in Nashville getting ready for the semester to start.
SPEAKER_04All right. Well, we'll start with you, Christy. I remember when you were envisioning this class, which was um was it titled Leadership Through Boxing or something close to that. Uh it sounded fascinating, and I was like a little skeptical if if you could even teach something that involves students potentially hitting each other, you know, on the on this campus. So um tell us how you had this idea and and how you you got it done.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so it it came about because there were there was an ROTC student in one of my other classes, and she knew that uh I but she knew about my my boxing experience, and I one day was talking with her about how the in the service academies you take boxing and do various kinds of combat, and those were going to be her peers when she graduated Vanderbilt. She asked about uh whether we could have maybe a class on boxing, like an academic, proper academic class on boxing. And I told her we'd try to work it out, and so the timing didn't work out perfectly for it to be a full class. Uh the but we ran a pilot as an independent study, and I I had told her, you know, you you need a training partner, and so she set out and tried to find someone to take the class with her so she would have somebody to train with. And suddenly one person, I think within an hour we had seven people, and then a day later, I think we had 12, and then we ended up with 16 in the pilot, and it was great. And uh, we just called it leadership through boxing. And the idea was to challenge students to dive deeply into an authentic mind-body experience. So maybe we need to change the name to embodied leadership through boxing.
SPEAKER_04And you mentioned your experience for those who don't know. I know you coached in the Olympics. Like, what's the extent of your boxing background?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I actually was introduced to boxing when I was a college student and I needed money, and I ended up uh entering a King and Queen of the Hill contest to try to make some money and had a good experience with that and thought, I will never do that again. That's the craziest thing I've ever done. I'll never do that again. But I ended up studying boxing and uh as part of my master's program, and then when I went on for my PhD, left boxing behind and was studying something else. I'm a sociologist, and I but I never let go of the boxing entirely because I uh ended up being a a good coach, and I ended up being uh one of the coaches for the 2012 Olympic team. We came home with a gold medal and a bronze medal, and I had a fantastic experience and have I I've seen over the years how much boxing can how much a difference it can make in the lives of young people, especially, and wanted to share that with the Vanderbilt community.
SPEAKER_04Incredible. All right, Katerina, tell us a little bit about your background. Um, what did you arrive at Vanderbilt to study? And how did this boxing course come onto your radar?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I studied um English and human organizational development at Vanderbilt, and I'm a huge English nerd. I love books, I love reading and writing. I think that's part of why like my love of fiction is how I found boxing in the first place because I love the classic Rocky and Creed movies and all that. And so as a kid, you see all the romanticized versions of it and all that. And then when I came to Vanderbilt, I did a couple fitness classes at like the Mayweather gyms, and then I kind of self-trained for a little bit and went to Nashville MMA for some Muay Thai classes, and then I think Williams professor had found um Coach Christie's gym, Fighters, and so we started going there this year, and it was amazing. We found such a great community there, and then Professor Halbert told us about the class that was happening. Honestly, I thought it was gonna be maybe like three or four students or like a very small group because I don't know. I knew there would be interest at box about boxing, but I think it's a big step for a lot of people to have a contact class, and so when I arrived and there was a full classroom of people, I was really excited. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And William, how about you? What's what's your background? What were you studying at Vandy and and what was appealing to you about this course?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh, I'm also an HOD and English major. I also major in psychology, just general psychology. Uh I like came into boxing just like for weight loss. I saw that they had a bag at the gym and I liked doing regular like weight stuff, but I heard boxing was a great way to lose weight if you didn't like you know running and doing cardio. So I was doing that. And um, how I wanted to get more into boxing was um that professor I had, uh, Mr. Torres, uh, who showed me to fighter's gym and helped me do all that. And even like Kettery and I before all that stuff were just uh training together and doing like our own sparring in the in the Vanderbilt gym.
SPEAKER_03Like fake ring in like one of the rooms in the rack. I think we used to use the room weeks for class.
SPEAKER_01And we we had a whole conversation of like if we could put cement in buckets and put like poles in them and then like wrap rope around them and make our own ring. But I was like, we'd have to bring that in every more. So they could just for the boxing class, yeah. Uh so yeah, that that's how I came into it. And then uh I just took off from there. I I was really surprised I wanted to fight. Uh I'm not really a big confrontational person, even in sports, and ask my personality anyone. I'm a pretty gentle giant, and there I was facing a 260-pound man in Las Vegas.
SPEAKER_04All right, and we'll complete the sweep here. Why uh what what was your background and why were you interested in engaging in this activity?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I started boxing actually going into my junior year of high school. I was trying to find something to do other than football because I was considering uh you know moving on from it at the time. So I found a gym in Cincinnati called uh uh Cincinnati Fitness Boxing, which actually how houses the University of Cincinnati's um boxing club. So I started fighting there. They had a high school team that I joined, loved it. So I did that in the offseasons of football. And then when I came to Vanderbilt, I had to you know figure out something to do with boxing. And you know, I toured a gym while visiting, and Dr. Christy Halbert, she texted me over the break, got my number from one of her uh uh one of the employees at Fighters and said, Hey, do you want to do this pilot? And I texted her back as soon as I could and was like, Yeah, sign me up, I'm in.
SPEAKER_04So Christy, as a coach, uh I assume you're used to working, I mean maybe with all levels of boxers, but you've worked with some of the most elite boxers in the world. Like, how do you approach introducing this sport to students with maybe various levels of comfort or experience? Um how did you uh approach how you would uh introduce students to to to boxing, to fighting, to sparring, uh even just learning about the equipment? Um I assumed you had to start from square one. What was that process like?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, definitely. So uh once I agreed to to do the independent study, it suddenly occurred to me that uh I was gonna have to create the materials that I I wanted everyone to learn from. Uh and so I wrote a manual for the students, and we kind of worked through that, sort of like uh some workbook pages in there as well, that kind of thing. Uh but the reality is it's just uh taking a it's all about taking that systematic approach. Progression is really important, trying to give micro challenges. Anyone who's ever boxed knows that it can be super intimidating, and and I I wanted to lower the barrier to participation by certainly keeping it authentic and giving those challenges, but doing it in such a way that everyone could feel successful. And so that that's what I set out to do, and and I think you can tell, at least from these three, that and and I think they represent the entire group that nobody knew what to expect. I mean, this was a pilot, no one had ever done this before at Vanderbilt, and yet these three and their colleagues also were curious and showed courage to show up even on that very first day, not having an idea of what to expect, and really committing to the process. And as even an Olympic coach, that's what I want to see. And if someone has that kind of spirit, then then we can build from there.
SPEAKER_04Katerina, was it intimidating for you? You mentioned you'd worked out at maybe at the Merryweather gym before. Um what was it like standing uh aside other Vanderbilt students with boxing gloves on? Um, what were those first lessons like for you? And how did you then find an increasing uh comfort level with it?
SPEAKER_03Honestly, at that point, I'd already been attending the classes at Fighters Boxing Gym for my whole first semester of my senior year. So by the time I got to this class, I was among one of the more experienced people, which was really awesome. So I was more trying to figure out where everyone else was at. And there was a lot of people who had done a lot of boxing before, which was super cool, and it was challenging to spar against people like Wyatt, who'd been boxing for years, and then people like this guy named Drake, who was like my height, a little taller, and he had done some other martial arts and so he did some crazy, like unusual moves I'd never seen before. And then some of the other people had never even boxed before, but were very athletic RFTC students. Um, they were also interesting and challenging. And every single person in that class, I think, helped me grow my sport in a different way, which was awesome. And everyone was also really nice and wanted to form that community. Somebody as small as like uh Professor Halbert had us like knock knuckles when we came in every morning before we left to thank everybody for being there and doing the work because you have to trust people, I think, a lot. And so maybe that was what I was uneasy about, especially in a room of lots of men and lots of men that I knew weren't boxers yet. And so trusting them to kind of like measure up and all that, I think what was scary at first, but with every single class, it got easier and easier as we got to know each other. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And William, I mean, you joined it, lose some weight, you fell in love with it. Like, what was it that you came to love about it? And for those who are trying to picture this in their mind, like, are you wearing headgear? Like, what does it look like in the room when you guys are boxing?
SPEAKER_01Uh, it's certainly the community that kept me coming like multiple times. Every time I was over at fighters or was over at the uh at the class, everyone was super friendly. Kevin Remention, we're like, you know, punching gloves together and knocking fists together. And everyone there is super friendly, everyone there is energetic, everyone there wants to be there. Like, that's the other thing. Everyone is there for the skill of it and the tactics of it. And coming in just for weight loss, you know, I thought boxing was just like big guys throwing haymakers all the time. But even before I even joined um that class, I had experience with just punching the bag uh at Vanderbilt. This like senior came over to me and I recognize him from the rugby club, but he was talking to me how like you know, you gotta work on your form and put your hands up here, and he was like, Boxing's a numbers game, it's really, really tactical. Coach Christie's like um manual really proved it to me. I thought it was all baseball, but I think the more I learned about boxing, and like not just from the manual, but from everyone's own individual points of it, like it's a really deep sport. There's a lot to get out of it. And so I think more than any other sport I've played, I keep finding new things about myself and the sport. So that's what keeps me coming back.
SPEAKER_04Oh, that's incredible. Yeah, and then the second part, what did y'all look like?
SPEAKER_01You're wearing your school clothes when you show up and just put some gloves on, or sweatpants, and uh everyone, everyone had to wear, um, or maybe just for one class, everyone had to wear like just regular t-shirts, but we all have our headgear on, mouthpieces. Uh, you have oh wait, did we have the yeah, we have going guards, and and then like when she brought all the different tools, you know, you got like the the shields, that was one of the funnest things. So, like there's a lot of padding everywhere, and everyone's just trusting each other to like stay, especially when you're sparring, to like stay safe, stay in the same circles. If if you have to be close to each other, like at arm distance away, like make sure you're you're that close because if you're that if you're far away from each other, you don't get the uh you don't get what you need out of the drill. So, like Kenarina said, it's a bunch of trust and a bunch of headgear and a bunch of cushioning, and it you feel safe, but then you get put once and you're like, I'm not safe. I gotta I gotta see what happens, but it's awesome. Everyone there is super trusting.
SPEAKER_03It's hard to recognize people that we've got the whole the headgear looks like this, or talking to it.
SPEAKER_04And then we have like the mouth guards in everybody look the same to some degree. Yeah, probably and why you came into this with uh some more experience than maybe maybe other members of the class, but this is a class, it's different than being just a part of a boxing club or boxing, you know, um uh on the weekends or in in tournaments. Like, what was it like for you experience boxing as part of an academic course?
SPEAKER_00Uh I'll tell you one thing for certain. The scariest part of the class wasn't putting on gloves, it was uh meeting all the new people. Uh definitely walking into that class and talking to all these fresh new faces. That was what was intimidating about the class, at least for me. Uh with like my added experience, I really was able to step into a leadership role where I was you know helping coach people through certain thrills or teach people how to throw a better cross and all those sorts of things. And I think Dr. Christy Holbert did a really, really excellent job of uh allowing everyone to fit into their sort of niche and succeed in their own right, whether it be coaching, being coached, and just meeting one another to all learn through boxing.
SPEAKER_04Awesome. And Christy, as this class is uh unfolding over the course of the semester and you're seeing your vision come to life, like what were the the proudest images that come to mind, like that you witnessed uh transformation of these students, or just seeing them get what you had hoped that they would take away from this class? What meant the most to you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean the class is really about social connection and leadership, whether that's self-leadership or leadership between two people or leadership with within the group itself, and and how to how to meet your goals while like your individual goals while simultaneously helping the group achieve their goals and doing all of that in what I think most people would describe as like a high stakes or like a scary environment where someone's actually trying to potentially punch you in the face. And so I and I I really felt like all of the students rose to that. They they they accepted the challenge and and met it. And I was I was proud of every single one of them. And I think I it thinking about these three in particular, you know, Wyatt absolutely took on leadership. Actually, so did so did William and so did Katarina. Everybody took on leadership roles in their own way. And I I think one of the special things about Wyatt was that he very quickly realized that he was a better boxer than a lot of the other people in the club. And part of what he had to uh come to terms with himself was what what does that mean when when you are better? And I think for me, uh I I think it boils down to your sense of justice and understanding that uh it's not just about being the best, but being the best also within community. And so I thought I thought Wyatt really adapted well to that. And then William, William is a he is a tough guy who doesn't like to necessarily show it. And so I saw his leadership come through in ways that he would demonstrate being vulnerable in class, and usually a big guy like him, you don't think of them being vulnerable, but vulnerability is a very important part of boxing. And so I was really proud of the moments that he did that. Sometimes I'd say, Who wants to be put on the spot? And his hand would be the first one to go up. And then Katarina, I would say, her leadership in um taking on those roles, like some of the there was one other boxer, a man who was uh as tall or taller, a little taller than she was, and so they ended up being training partners a lot. And he had, because his family was a martial arts family, his style was a little different, and it can be very disconcerting to work with someone who is a little uh like um they're they're they're approaching things a little bit differently, and uh she did a really good job adjusting to that and not only stepping her toe into the water of boxing, but like completely committing to it, uh, to the point that she ended up deciding that she wanted to do the college national championships.
SPEAKER_04Well, that's what I wanted to talk about next, and those are amazing uh outcomes or uh memories from the class, Christy. Katerina, William. You took this class and then decided to pursue something even uh braver to some degree. Uh tell us what that next step was for you. Start with you, Katarina.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we flew out to Las Vegas and competed in college nationals for boxing, and it was far, it was a far away to go. Cause I think usually like it moves around every year, so it was a pretty far away from Nashville. But we'd been training and attending sparring classes, uh like foundational sparring classes, uh, the boxing gym for about a semester, and that was the only like really uh organized boxing experience we had. And then I think around the same time that Professor Halbert approached us about the class, she also mentioned that there was this opportunity coming up where you could go and compete against other college students, which is pretty rare in um amateur boxing tournaments, so it's just limited to one age group, and they have different categories of experience levels. You can compete against other people who's only their first or second time boxing, which is a really unique opportunity. And I've always wanted to be able to say that I participated in an official boxing match, and so win or lose, I was just really excited about the chance to go out there and have that experience. And honestly, I was not near as nervous as I thought I would be that whole time, like the plane ride and getting there. And we Professor Halbert had a really great way of doing it, where she handed us this like packet with like we had lists of what we should bring, and then like all these mental exercises and journaling exercises we should do beforehand to kind of visualize like what are your strongest combinations? Like, what are you gonna work on? What are your goals for this fight specifically? So you're not just thinking about am I gonna win or am I gonna lose or who's this person across from me? How do I want to grow as a boxer by going out there and doing this? And so it was one of I think the greatest moments of my life. It was one of the coolest things I think I've ever done. So I'm very grateful.
SPEAKER_04And you did pretty well, right?
SPEAKER_03I did. I uh won my weight class. Um, I only had one fight, unfortunately. It was one pairing. Um, it was on the first night at about I think it was 11 p.m. Pacific time, and we were still kind of on central time, so it's about maybe like one in the morning, like for our bodies. But same for the other girl. She was from, I think, Philadelphia, maybe. Um, but yeah, it was she was great. It was really fun. Um, I did win. I feel like my height gave me a big advantage. She was pretty short, and then she didn't go for like um my body as much as I think she should have. So kind of staying focused on my own game and not getting distracted by her getting tangled up in my punches and kind of she clinched me a lot, which was annoying and I was getting frustrated because you're not supposed to do that. But it wasn't the cleanest fight, I think it was good.
SPEAKER_04And we've mentioned your height a few times here. Um, how tall are you?
SPEAKER_03I'm six foot two.
SPEAKER_04Okay. And I think I saw the the uh the belt that you brought back, right? You brought it back to King's.
SPEAKER_03It's at my home in Tahasse because I didn't want to get it damaged, driving up to DC with it. But yeah, it was pretty cool. It's like what you'd picture from a movie, and definitely a good uh souvenir from that experience. I saw them put it out. Um, I forgot that kind of that was my only fight of the weekend, probably, like, or at least for the title. And they put it out on like the judge's table before the fight. Saw it and I was like, oh, maybe I do. Okay, I do care if I win or lose. Like it's not good.
SPEAKER_04And William, you had a memorable experience as well, perhaps a slightly different story. But um, what was it like for you to head out there to compete? And and what was your uh what was the story out there for you?
SPEAKER_01That was definitely crazy. Like I told you, I've been playing team sports, but boxing is the one where it's like, yeah, it's all you. You choose what you want to do with it, you choose if you want to go fight. You know, no one's making you wake up on Sunday with all your teammates and go. It's all it's all you. So going to Vegas and choosing to do that in this convention center, all these people, I think it was like three different rings, three different fights going on, just all fighters. It was crazy, it was intimidating. And when I went and saw my opponent, because I was in super heavyweight, and I was, I was, I'm pretty sure as as light as you can go in super heavyweight, I was like 235. And my opponent was 260, who's just a big guy, and he reminded me of like some of my friends back home. And that was crazy, just like going in there, getting in the room with a guy who you know is as as a like a bigger person who you know is bigger than you. It's like, oh, okay, I forgot they made people like that. Um in the first round, like exactly one minute in, I threw a really good right cross. I'm very proud of it. And I hit his eye. Some people think I hit his orbital bone. I hit somewhere here, and I broke these three hand bones in my right hand, and got surgery for it uh after. But during that round, or during that when that happened, I felt really good. I was ready to throw another punch, and he clinched me three times after, so I knew it was hurting. I sat down and I was like, Coach, like uh I heard my hurting my hand. Can I do it? Like, I don't know what to do. And she's like, push through it, use your left hand, you got this. And I did. I used my left hand, I threw my right hand a few more times. That was a bad idea. I was told not to do that. It's like my own fault. Um, but I came out of it with so much adrenaline, so much hype for boxing. Came, got, uh, went to the doctor emergency room really quickly, came back, and I came in time just to see Katarina's fight, which is awesome. I was there for like three hours in the emergency room. They stitched me up or whatever. I came out and her walking up to the ring. I was, I had this like sling on, and I was like, Katarina! And then their fight started, and I got to see her win. So that was probably the highlight for me. That was awesome.
SPEAKER_03We have a great picture of Will's in like an arm brace, and I have like the belt over my shoulder. So it was like different outcome.
SPEAKER_01It was a crazy 24 hours of like start to finish of how we came out how we went today.
SPEAKER_02Andrew, I have to say, I did not know his hand was broken. He just said it hurt. I have to say, and I have to say in 30 years of coaching boxing or close to it, I've never seen that before, ever. That injury. And I think it it just proves how hard Will hits.
SPEAKER_04Good for you, Will. And Wyatt, uh you're continuing with boxing after this course. You came into the course with experience, and what's next for you? You're gonna be helping others uh learn the sport, huh?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, you'll have to figure out a way to get me to stop boxing if I'm gonna be honest. I'm always gonna find a way to do it. So, upcoming this semester, I'm gonna be working with Dr. Christy Halbert and uh some other students that I recognize have a lot of you know potential benefits in you know, working with a boxing club to get a boxing club at Vanderbilt. I have some good connections, like I mentioned earlier, to the University of Cincinnati's boxing club, who is world renowned in the National Collegiate Boxing Association, also known as the NCBA. And those guys have I've talked to them and they're more than willing to help me get it started at Vanderbilt. And I'm just looking forward to uh having a school as you know proud as Vanderbilt is to get a club that's just so authentically, you know, every person's in there for themselves, but working together while doing it. I'm really, really excited for where it's headed and uh the future for Vanderbilt boxing.
SPEAKER_04Wow, this is incredible. I I I can't wait to see where this heads next. Um Christy, Katerina, William, Wyatt, thank you for joining the show. Christy, I'll give you the last word here. Like after the success of this first course offering, what what do you hope is next? Where could this go from here?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, uh uh this semester it's a full course, so it's a three-hour course. We're already full for the fall, but I hope students will, if you're interested in it, I I hope that they will express interest in it so we can let let the administration know that this is something that you would like to continue. The course is being offered through the Culture Advocacy Leadership Program, and it is also an immersive course, of course. And um, and then any students that would want to continue, of course, uh they should get in contact with Wyatt and uh become part of the club, the official club.
SPEAKER_04Well, again, uh it's incredible. Uh thank you everybody for joining the show. Um really proud of what everyone was able to accomplish. And uh best of luck. We'll be looking for you uh between the ropes. Have a good summer, rest of the summer, everybody. Take care.
SPEAKER_02Thanks, Andrew.