The Process; Artificial Intelligence Thoughts

Hey everyone!

In today's episode we're talking about artificial intelligence and our thoughts on it, as well as some updates on our TV series and the process behind our writing. 

Spotify:

Christy Bruneau

Chelsea Nettleton

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:08

You're listening to the Creative Download, a podcast to inspire and encourage others to live in the fullness of their creativity. Hi guys, how's it going?

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Hi, Christine. Hi, Chelsea. Welcome back, everyone. We've had a welcome, everyone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Happy Friday. Well, at least Friday is what we're when we're recording this. Um, yeah, and if you are if you're watching our YouTube, my background's different. I haven't moved. Um, I'm just um I'm house sitting for a friend, so I'm in a new location for a little bit. Um, yeah, thanks so much, you guys, for listening and um watching, subscribing. Um, as always, we uh love it when you like and subscribe. Um, follow us on Instagram. Um, yeah. Uh let's see. Gosh, it's been a whirlwind kind of past couple weeks for all of us, or for both of us, I should say, probably for all of us that are in lists making. Um, so first let's let's get into what we're working on. What are you working on right now, Christy? Well, sorry. And and I think we talked about adding like how did you fail magnificently this week?

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which we can ponder that. Yeah. Um, yeah, we don't have a guest this week because we've been having a lot of guests um every episode. So we're this is like our normal chat, right? This is just us. Um gosh, what I've been working on this week. Well, we've been doing a lot of work on the TV series. And then um, so just kind of organizing that, which we'll get into later. And then I'm also re like like redoing some of my old songs, re-recording them. Nice. And I'll talk a little bit more about how I found where my genre that I wanted to do then too, but like with that, but a lot of my music from 2000 in the 2000 era was very like Americana, country, and even bluegrass, which was very popular at the time. And um, I don't know if you remember the Oh Brother, Where Art Thou. Um so like I loved all that music, and my you know, last uh batch of songs was all you know, very bluegrass. And so, but uh the songs, which is very interesting to me, don't they can kind of go they can go into other genres. Nice. So I have my husband's been begging me to do a song called Lay Me Down that is a lot of people's favorite that of mine. And I used to have it be just this song that was a cappella that I sang at the beginning of a set when I would play live, more as like my own grounding into being on stage, but also to capture, you know, if I'm in a like cafe or I was opening up for somebody, then you have everybody talking. Right. Um, I would just get up and I'd stand there with nothing and I'd belt out like a basically like a little prayer song. Yeah. And it would get everybody's attention. And so when I went to record, my producer at the time was like, we gotta flush this song out. And it's still only a two-minute song, but we did add a little bit more to it. And so now we're doing, I have a producer, my vocal coach, uh Matt Fowler. He's doing the production with me, and we're doing it dream pop. It's like it's totally like slowing it down. It's really like dreamy, and it's really fun. It's like fun to redo the songs. The other thing I'm working on is get my health and and and so is actually Drew, um, my husband. We um had a family member who's not that much older than us have a real big health scare and um not really understanding like pre-diabetic conditions, which I have fallen under that in my blood work um over the last few years. And I've always known I've known that. And I take I go to the doctor regularly and have my blood checked because diabetes is a is a hereditary thing later. Well, not hereditary. My family members have gotten type two diabetes as they aged. Yeah. And so I've been really conscious of it. Well, then I we watched our family member really like struggle. I mean, he was in the hospital from high part of it was high, high blood sugar. Yeah, and so uh ever since then, well, Drew kicked it off. You know, he always does stuff first like this. He stopped, he's like, I'm not eating any more cookies, no candy. I mean, this is the guy that when he goes to the store to get groceries, he comes home with hot dogs, he comes home, comes home with donuts, he comes home with chocolate chip cookies, he comes home with all the bad shit, right? Right, he's like, I'm done. And so it took me a couple of days watching him, and then I'm like, all right, I'm in. So today is like day 10 of wow. And that's like, I don't think you can actually cut sugar out of your diet completely, it's in everything, but really trying to monitor that I stay close to 30 grams a day. Nice. And let me tell you something. I am crazy right now. Like it is a drug. I just am like, I am just like baffled at how intense this has been. Now, I smoked a long time when I was young, 12 years or something. And I when I quit smoking, it felt like this. I was like, whoa, like you couldn't even, I quit a job. There was like, I mean, I was just not, it took about a month to like get back to myself. And my husband quit when he quit smoking, he just quit one day. It was like nothing. He doesn't have like the personality that I do. He can just like, all right. He's not like, yeah. So it's today is day 10. And I'm gonna tell you, as a creative person, uh, that was blocking me. Oh wow. On a lot of stuff. I'm not really, and I'm getting a lot of downloads, and I'm but they're it's like I'm really having to like, whoa, this is a lot. Like I can't be doing, I have to like have balance. Yeah. So uh yes. So it's been, I feel like I'm like uh very awake. Good. Very awake. And yeah. So that's what I've been working on and trying to manage. My gosh is my moods this week.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

So that's what terrifies me about sugar, is yeah, it's and I because I I never want to say this, you know, and make like belittle drug use, but like sugar for me is my drug, and the hardest part about it is that it is everywhere. So everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

It's that's encouraging that you guys are doing that.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

It's in everything, and it's like the good sugars are fine, you know, the fruits and things like that. You still have to, you know, watch the amounts, but but yeah, it's like so easy for it to be in so many things. Well, I'm really proud of you. That's exciting. That's that's amazing, and that's cool to hear how it affects you creatively too. Like, and I totally believe it. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Um, so yeah. What's going on? What have you been working on this week?

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Um, so we worked crazy hard last week to finish up the pilot.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Yeah, um good job too. You did great. It's I think it's uh it's it read both really, really well.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Yeah, uh, it was oh gosh, that was so fun. Um it is fun and uh yeah, so um we worked really, really hard to get that at least to a point where it's getting close to being like polished and done. Like we want, I know we wanted to our goal for those of you guys that haven't been listening, or maybe, maybe we haven't said it, but our goal had been to get it ready for um a friend in the industry to read it and get their feedback. So um it is currently in their hands. Yeah. Which is so fun and scary at the same time. And yeah, and scary. We'll talk about that a little bit more later, but uh, but yeah, so that was a huge, huge thing to complete. Yeah. Um and uh, well, so yeah, so I'll I'll go with my failed magnificently here in a second, but um working on that. Um let's see, I have been, oh, um, I haven't been creating anything new, uh, but what I've been working on was getting ready to perform. Um, I wanted to hear about that. Yeah. So Friday, uh last Friday, uh I got to do a songwriter night. So um, so my creative work that week and the week before were practicing, prepping, you know, figuring out how we wanted the songs to really play live. Because that for those of you that don't do music um Azure Art, like that is, and I know you understand this, Christy, but like the recording version and then playing it live, yeah, a lot of times are at least slightly different. And and for example, with mine, they both are the the two that I played could easily be too slow live. So I, you know, so we like we increased the tempo and we, you know, figured out, you know, okay, where are we gonna get make it big? And we it was just myself singing and then um my friend harmonizing and playing guitar. So yeah, so it was really fun to kind of figure that part of things out. So we did that Friday night, and then we decided to do an open mic night on Tuesday night. This last week or this week. So yeah, so we got out there. We got to do three songs that night, two songs on Friday night. So, you know, it this is so silly, but it was so fun to be like on to on the at the open mic, um, when I was introducing pieces, the song that I that I my song that I sang, and then we did two covers. But when I introduced pieces, it was just fun to be like, yeah, and we played this at the indigo room on Friday night. I've never really been able to say that where I'm like, oh yeah, we did this, you know, and it was really cool, it was really encouraging because those were, you know, Friday night were both my own original songs, and I've never really played anything except for maybe once. But it wasn't even like I had written the song for the purpose, you know, these were my songs that I wrote that I got to share that it and I'm like I was so nervous, but I was so excited. So um I'll post those. My friend um filmed uh Friday night, so I'll post that to our Instagram for just for fun. Yeah, so so that was that was big. And then um I I did get a chance to work on my novel a little bit this week too. I jumped back into that. So um yeah, wrote wrote some pages this week, and um it's so fun working on it right now because it's there's a there's a lot of stuff that I still don't know what's gonna happen, and you know, kind of discovering it as I go and discovering the characters. Um and I figured out some some really fun character stuff this week. Um as I was writing, I was like, oh, oh, you know, and I'm sitting like furiously writing in the story, and then aren't characters so fun? I love the character turn. They're so fun. And I know a lot of people like we learned in grad school, you know, like I had character profile sheets, and I think I've shared them with you because as we've been working on the TV series, but I found for me that I need to um kind of start writing so that I can s start to figure out my character. Um, and I noticed that was kind of the case with our script too. Like we had a good idea for for a couple of our characters, but then still to start writing. And then you start to learn the characters a little bit, and you start to realize like, oh, okay, this is who they are, this is where I see that, you know. So it's kind of a it was kind of a process of writing a little bit of the character profile and then writing some of the script or writing some of the novel, and then writing more, adding more to the character profile, you know, blah, blah. So that was really fun. Anyways. Yeah. Um and then my fail magnificently. This is why I just I love ever since we had um Rebecca Kenna on here, and y'all should go back and listen to that episode. It was great. Um, talking about, you know, like failure really isn't failure. Um, and she has a lovely phrase um called fail magnificently that uh I started realizing I'm like, you know what, I want to look at that just as much as like the quote unquote wins or what we're working on. Um because one of the one of the my biggest fail magnificently recently was our pilot. We had a different version uh for the, you know, we had we had version number one.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

And wrote the whole thing. I mean, we and a couple, couple revisions of it. And then we realized it needs a strong, it needed a stronger opening, plus um, we added a whole uh what do you call it, tool to it. Um tool probably isn't the right word. And and I'm blanking on the word, but anyway, so you know, a way that we wanted to write it, something we wanted to add in, a couple characters that we were missing. You know, so we totally rewrote the pilot. Um used pieces from the original, but really uh those had to be rewritten too. So that was like a really cool example for me of a fail magnificently, where it's like, okay, if we hadn't gotten that down, we may not have gotten to the point where we realized, ooh, this is good. This is what makes it, this is the this is great.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Yeah, okay. So it's funny you say fail magnificent magnificently on that because that's interesting, that's cool to hear that's how you're seeing it. But how I see it is it's a part of the writing process. So, like, I and I love that you talked about the character sheets and like because maybe we can just talk about go. Are you do you have other stuff to share that you're still working on before we uh no?

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Those were the things I will I will clarify on the fail magnificently. The reason I look at it like that is because my previous point of view would have been, oh, wasted all that time writing it this way when we should have been writing it this way. Oh, okay. Yeah, and now I realize, you know, I mean, I would have seen some of the benefit, but not nearly as much as I do now, where I'm like, oh, I, you know, we had to get that out, and we're not using it, right? So, like we're not using that pilot. That's where my brain goes to, oh, it's it's a waste, it wasn't used type thing, you know. Because I used to struggle with, oh, I'm wasting time on this, or I wasted all that time on that project, you know, and now I'm trying to do this, you know. So that's where my brain used to go. And now I'm like, oh no, you know, so my brain would have thought it as like failure. Oh, this was wrong. Now we now we know what to do. We're gonna do this, you know. But now I see it as like, oh, that's brilliant, because that got us here. Yes. That's that clarification. But yeah, let's let's let's chat a little bit about so so I know like with today, we were talking about, we'll talk about the we'll share with you guys a little bit more on our process with the TV series. Um, we can talk about our characters and and that whole thing. Um, and then we also wanted to jump into some uh stuff regarding AI. Um, because that is a very hot topic right now, and we just wanted to share our perspective on it. Um, but yeah, so let's jump back to our TV series, and you were talking about characters.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Um, it's just the process. Um you're I'm reflecting on how we've been doing this process, and like I love how what you just shared too. I think it's so important for people listening to hear this part. Like, this is why I think we do this one, this podcast is because you're not gonna see this. I don't think, I don't know if you get this in a class. I mean, you might if your teacher talks like this and your group works like this, but the idea of you know, going it's not even a revision. It's like almost I'm trying to figure out how to so a lot of times I almost feel like we're doing we're doing this writing in a little bit of a upside down way, if that makes sense. So when we started off writing, we had all of our ideas and characters already kind of brewing and all of that, and so we just started doing like a big write dump, like yeah, we just bring them vomited everything out. And we did a big write dump and we use Google Docs, which I think is really helpful. If you're listening to this and you don't know, uh Chelsea lives in Colorado, I live in California, so we do all of this online together, and sometimes separately, sometimes together. But I remember when you we started doing the characters and you sent me sent the character. She has this amazing character like outline.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Five pages, yeah, profiling. Five pages.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

And I and I and I looked at it, and I'm a come from a teacher background. I could totally see giving that to my students, right? But for me, I write like you do, and I bet a lot of writers like this do that. That kind of stunted me. It's overwhelming, yeah. So I realize that too. But then, but but I'm gonna go back to it. So here the reason I'm bringing that up is it's a great resource. So it a lot of writing, I think we have to get away from if you want to really write, away from the structure and organization of the writing at first. Like it kind of goes back to the the book I talked about before where the red fern grows. Um I I've talked about it on this show where he didn't have uh the author who I never remember his name, he um, so I don't think he's alive anymore, but I apologize that I don't remember your name. He didn't know grammar, he didn't do grammar. He had the story and he was story and story, and so he just he just went and wrote it out with no grammar, and his wife came and organized it. So there's like, I feel like two processes with writing. And when we're in school, the organization part is so front and center and not the actual writing part that we don't work on that part of our brain as easy, depending on your writing teacher. Right. So, like, you know, middle, like elementary school, middle school, high school, they're not doing a lot of creative writing unless you're in a school that's focused on that. And you might have a teacher that says, we're gonna vomit everything out. We're gonna take all your ideas on one. Don't worry about grammar, don't worry, because I remember you saying that to me, like, we're not gonna worry about any of this, we're gonna put it all out in one big thing. Yeah. And I go back to that all the time. Yeah. Now, because now we're organizing it. So now we've got, we pretty much have our concept and idea out on paper. And then it's like, okay, now we need to structure it into the genre, which is TV series genre, is what we decided that it's gonna go. It's not gonna be a film, it's not gonna be a play, it's not gonna be a book. Uh although it could become there could be things that it could do, but we're choosing to do the TV series as the um as the genre, the avenue that it's going to be communicated. Um, so I just think that's just so it's like so like failing magic. So yeah, it's so funny you say that that was a failure because I see it as like definitely the steps to the to the better. Right. And it wasn't like a revision. It's not like it wasn't like, oh, you need to go revise this, it's not good enough. That's not how it went. It was like we read through it, we talked, we talk a lot when we're writing. We talk through, I think this is really important as a writer when you're working with people. And I'm sure the writing teams do this, and that a lot of it's talked out before it's written out, right? So it's like you talk it out. What are the talk it out? And when as we talked it out, it became clear that oh, we need to put that part in the beginning. And then maybe not even the whole part at the beginning. It's gonna be like, so it's almost like the story begins to evolve on its own. And then when you get different people in there too, somebody else might read it. So now we're waiting to hear back from somebody here has another view of that. And so it's like you get another view and you make it a little bit, you tweak it a little bit better. Because the whole idea is that we want to communicate our story and idea to other people. So now we're waiting back to hear how that's communicated. It's different than like, is it good? It's not whether it's good enough or not. Right. We know it's good, we believe in it. We believe in it. It's now, is it communicating? Is the tone communicating? Is the story or the characters communicating? Is any of it confusing to you? Right. That's kind of how I'm seeing it.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I agree. Um, yeah, and it's so funny because with those character profiles, um I I think it's I think it's good to have it as an option, like the organizing. Because some like like knowing that that's there, you know, those character profiles um a little bit more structure for those creatives that actually are more structured like that. I was just thinking because yeah, because like I mean, you know, I have I have a lot of friends that are, you know, creatives that that are like very organized. And very structured. So it's good that that's an option and that it's a tool. But not everybody, you know, not so such a such a um revolutionary uh phrase to say, not everybody thinks the same. I know. I'm gonna coin that because nobody's ever said that before. But so, like for people like you and me, yeah, we we do have to brain dump. We need to, I that's one thing, that's one huge thing that I have learned for myself as a creative, that I need to brain dump. I need to, I need to do my vomit drafts, I need to, and and I know a lot of people are like that, but maybe like the the the time frame for when that happens for them, yeah, the timeline. My timeline is gonna be different, you know, from somebody who's more logic and organized, that they kind of have to create, maybe they have to create their sections, you know, literally title them, make it make space where they can go and you know, for me and like what you and I did, we literally opened, like you said, a Google Doc and just dumped and kind of organized it as we went. Yeah, just simply so we can do that. So you did, you were really good at that. Yeah. I was trying to do it just so we could find things again, you know, but but we I wasn't trying to be in one section going, okay, let's brain dump on this section. Okay, now let's brain dump on this section. It was like, okay, sky's the limit. What comes to mind for this show? What do we, what do we want to see? Even if we can't make it happen down the road, don't worry about, you know, we we had to let go of limitations, um, you know, so that our brains could go, ooh, what do we want to do? Some people's brains, I know, go, oh god, that's way too many options. I need to start here. Yeah. And it's almost like the opposite, where then their brains go, ooh, yes, ooh, and you could do this, oh, and you could do that, you know. So I just find that fascinating. I love it. So I guess all that to say for the different creators out there, I mean, everybody's different. And it's so worth figuring out how your brain works and even what tools to use. Well, yeah, because I'd chat about that a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

Yeah, we just I was thinking about that because we uh in this process, you know, when you're trying to do a whole I mean, really, when you're doing a TV series, you're actually doing three or four seasons too. So you're like, oh, this is like and I I'm like everything it's almost like I walk around in the world right now. Oh, that could be in the show. Oh, that could be in the show. I do too. You know, it's like something happened. How could I do that? You know? Um so there's a lot going on around it internally. And you we used so we also used Canva, which is which so we're gonna talk a little bit. That kind of moves into um, like just a tool technology, AI can be a part of that too. Um, but Canva was a part that we used in the sense that we used the whiteboard and we created more of like a season um outline kind of, but in a picture. So that's that's another idea that's really cool because like it just we're both very visual and it's easy for me to see. So like I've been referring to that a lot when we were writing the synopsis. So like the synopsis is like a one-page outline basically of like this what the show is gonna be about the begin, like the first thing you're gonna give somebody to communicate, hey, this is what the show is about, you know, and then it might have a couple other pages added to it with characters. We've talked about that a little bit, a couple of you know some series stories and then yeah, the pilot, like you know, very, very short. So it's like it's like learning how to like it's almost like you write everything out all big, and then you you then you have to condense it into these little pieces, which I'm gonna say this right now that being songwriters is helpful because yeah, a songwriter, you have a story to tell in a on a one page and in you know, m three minutes max now. Cause you know, I it's so weird how like I listen to old songs, I'm like, this song's five minutes long. I know, right? Um, because that was like not, you know, that's that's not happening anymore now. People are really not paying attention that long. But at least, at least when it's sync focused.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

I mean, but even still outside of sync, it's it's really hard.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Yeah. So um, so to be able to condense that, but we so we used Canva and and um Chelsea was really good at creating some of these tools. So she drew out, you know, like each season, you know, and we just put little notes in each box basically of what it was gonna be for that season. And then underneath, I jumped, I put in all the characters, and then we eliminated characters because I'm as you like put them in this box, I'm like, wow, that's a lot of characters. Like, I would combine them. Yeah, do we need them? Let's combine them. Let them like so, in a way, like what the ultimate goal, I think, without calling it a goal, it's this isn't reflection, and I think self-reflection is really good. So this whole conversation is good for us because it's causing us to self-reflect. Um, is that we the idea, the the real concept for me is you want to keep it open enough to let the series or whatever you're writing, the characters evolve into what they're supposed to be. Right. And in doing it's same with songwriting. So, like when you said earlier that you wrote this one, you know, the original pilot, which actually was really good. And honestly, I could I could say we could have given that to somebody and been fine with moving forward. But well, thank you. But you had a better idea, a new idea came through that was like, I think this is gonna make it better. And and that sometimes is hard for people to do because they're attached to the first verse, the first part. And that happens with songwriting a lot. Yes, where you could write something really good and people really like it, and then you take it to one of the listening sessions that we got. Yep. And then you have perspective on the people who are now how how is it communicating to them? Right. And and then it can be a challenge to say, because I I just had this happen where I've shared a song with a couple of people and they're like, This is really good. Yeah, there's just a few couple of tweaks that are gonna make is gonna make this great. Yeah. And then when you're working with co-writers, you have to like get everybody on board. It's not as easy, right? Like that was pretty easy for you and I to make that change.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

I yeah, also we yeah, we streamline, we end up having a lot of the same thoughts, and or like if I say something, you're like, Oh my god, yeah, is that pull it out of you or you pull it out of me, which is cool.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

Yeah, and I think one of the things that helped me is we kind of, as we've been going, identified our roles a little bit more. Um because you have Chelsea, the master's degree in TV and film writing. So I'm like, I know you're structure-oriented and your practice is in dialogue and all these things that like I might have ideas on, but I haven't had as much of the writing experience in that form. Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

The actual, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

Yeah. I'm learning now along with you. But you are a great writer. But yeah, I see what you're saying. But you know what I mean? Yeah, the structure, like, okay, you're gonna go put it into that structure. And then I really feel like I have a strength in the tone. Like, is the tone right for this? Would this really happen? Is this make sense? Like, because of what we're talking about, I have a lot of experience. And so I'm like, okay, I'll just watch for the tone and watch for like, okay, would this happen? This might or might not happen in this area, it might happen in that area. So, like, I what would they call that?

SPEAKER_01 30:14

I'm not a continuity person, but like kind of yeah, because on set that would be like a a script supervisor. So it's almost like it's almost like you're a writing supervisor now. You know, I don't, I don't know, I can't remember what it's called, but basically, like if we were in a room, yeah, um, uh, the little bit of experience that I got to be in a writer's room where we, you know, we did like a two-week intensive. So based on that, um, a lot of what you're saying definitely like that is what happens in the room. You they they what's called break stories together. Um, they break, you know, the pilot, they'll, they'll, if it's a brand new show, they'll figure out the season, you know, all that stuff. And then typically the writers really don't go off by themselves until they are assigned a script for an episode to go write, but then they'll bring it back. And, you know, the rest of the people, the rest of the writers in the room are hoping to critique and then they'll go back and write, you know, re-revise it and I'll, you know, I'll polish it up and things like that. So yeah, that's I mean, that's what that I that's what I fell in love with when I when I was in grad school, because I was like, oh my gosh, TV writing. Like I had no idea that I would enjoy collaboration so much. I I've talked about that before in here, you know, uh going back to to music and things like that. But where I really first fell in love with collaboration was with it was in my grad school or it was in my um graduate program. Um and that was and so it's neat to get to do that. I mean, it's right now it's just you and me, um, but even just with the two of us, it has that, you know, wonderful, like it's not just from one mind, it's you know, very few people, I feel like, can write TV series or films, just them, you know, like it's just it's almost always better with two two or more people. Yeah, well, I wouldn't say two or more people, like a small amount of people.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

You have the right people together, you know, you get the right people together to work on it and have those ideas, and it's like, oh my god, this is gonna be, you know. Um, I've always felt that way with making music too. Like when you go when I go in to record, you know, it's like I've always really enjoyed. Um, I haven't done it lately because it's costs a lot more money to hire all your musicians, but who knows? Doing that in my next couple songs. I like to give the musicians, especially if they're like session musicians and they do this. Like, how do you interpret this? What do you hear your instrument doing right now? I might give them a little outline, you know. Of course, you need to be, you know, if they can't, there's always a couple people who like they just want to overpower whatever. Too many things, but too many solos. Yeah. But then in the, you know, I might say, okay, that's a little, you know, like I like this part, not, you know, this part we don't need or whatever, but it brings the life to us to a story or a song that one person alone, it just it just makes it feel so much more full and it connects to so many more people, which I think is exciting. And then also just like on how we've written, i2, we've kind of had to work through a little bit. Like sometimes we write together. Uh, we do write separately too. And so, but every we try to get everything into the Google Doc uh so that we have access to it. I know like this is kind of basic stuff, but like when we're like adding stuff, I might use a different color so that she knows that that's my idea that I'm putting in there. So I'm not just so that you can, it's so hard to remember when you're doing all this writing, who did what. And not that that's important, but that you don't want for me, you don't, I don't want to go in and like erase your idea. Right. So we don't want the goal is to yeah, the goal is to keep all the ideas there because they could fit, maybe it fits here, maybe it doesn't now it could fit somewhere else. Same with songwriting. Like I think Lori and I often talk about the thickness of uh for one the one-page song that we end up finishing, the amount of writing that went on. Yeah. You know, that's like pages behind that. And we use Google Docs there too. Just like pages behind it. I think you might have frozen on me. Oh, there you go. Um, I wanted to ask you something, Chelsea, that you talked about in what your opening, and that was because you mentioned that you don't normally sing your own songs. So and I I'm I've I've always been so my question to you is is how does it feel different for you? How is that different for you when you're singing a cover song and in performing and then singing one of your own songs?

SPEAKER_01 34:58

That's an that's an excellent question. Um, and I wanted to say real quick on this is perfect, just going from collaboration into kind of music a little bit. Um, it was really neat. So Friday night, I I was the songwriter and my friend Danny played guitar for me. And um that, you know, so I was like, okay, I'm going there as me. And I realized I'm like, you know, I was going back and forth. I'm like, do I go to the songwriter night as me, or do I go as like he and I have a uh just a duo right now? We're called Two Steps from Normal. Um that's always fun to open, you know, with like when we we've done a cut like a few little like shows uh or like barbecues and stuff. And I'm like, we're two steps from normal. That's also our band name. Um so but I realized I'm like, you know, like after doing that, I was like, you know what? So yes, I wrote the lyrics, I came up with the melody. I, you know, if for all intents and purposes, these are quote unquote my songs. But when he plays them, he adds more life to it and more magic. And and the two of us together, it's better. The songs are better when he's playing, you know, and and I want him to play, like be one of my instruments, you know, I want him to play on some of the recordings. Um, and so it dawned on me, I was like, so I it was so funny because like Saturday I messaged him and he's uh his his wife is my is my very best friend, and he's a very, very close, close guy friend for me. So so he and I are very close. I he I call him my brother now. Um and uh so I wrote him the next day, kind almost with like a a proposal, you know. But if from a from a songwriter to a guitarist, you know, I was basically like, hey, you know, with I mean I sent him a you know a long message, but I won't I won't, you know, share the long message. It just basically was like, hey, I'm better with you. Will you be in a band with me? And and I don't want to be a songwriter by myself anymore. Yeah, let's be our band, like all the time, not just when we play, you know, cover and then I'm a songwriter separately. I'm like, I was like, will you be will you be my band? You know, it's one of those and he was like, I accept, you know. It was really fun and it just it made me so happy. Um, you know, so anyways, okay, so going back to your question, um, you know, I think part of it is with covers, you know, with cover songs, I feel more confident because we we, you know, of course, pick covers that people know and and they enjoy and they're, you know, popular. Um so it's easy for people to listen, you know. I know that they're not when I listen to a band or vocalist or whatever, and they're singing covers, I relax because I'm like, okay, cool. This this song is established. Although the vocalist in me, I I am very particular about who I listen to. And when I hit listen to people live, I have to like tone down my judgy, I'll be honest. Like, it's just it's hard not to do that when you're a vocalist. Um, I think everybody can relate when it's their own craft or whatever it may be. Yeah. Um so I admit it, uh, it's something I'm I like try and work on so that I can enjoy who's playing for what it is. Yeah. But when it's a cover song, it's like I relax, I don't, I don't have to, I it's like I'm not worried for them anymore. And so I realize I'm like, that's how I am with my own stuff, is it's like when I do covers, I'm pretty relaxed. I know the song, the audience knows the songs. Um, you know, I feel like they, I it's like my brain goes, oh, well, they're gonna relax, they're gonna just enjoy it because they know it. Um, we won't be distracting. I know Danny and I are solid, you know, we practice all the time, blah, blah, blah. When it's my own songs, um, it's like the audience, especially like for Friday night when they knew they were my originals, um, because that's what the songwriter night was. Yeah, songwriter night is that. Yeah, songwriter night is original pieces. Um and they came there for that. It wasn't like, you know, being in a bar or a pub or whatever, and and you're kind of the background. They were there to listen to your shit. So part of me was really excited about that because I've never had that where it's like, okay, people in the audience are coming to listen to live original music. So that did kind of relax me, but with it being my own stuff from my own heart, that is what probably made me the most nervous because it's like I'm sharing, you know, my emotions are on my sleeve at that point. Um this is something that I created. So just like somebody may be doing their gallery, yeah, you know, and and revealing their their painting, you know, what are people gonna think of this? Yeah. Um it's like with covers, that part's not there for me. It's like, I know, I mean, and again, not just it's not a conceited thing at all. It's just a, oh yeah, no, I they know this song, it's gonna be easy to get their attention and for them to just be comfortable, you know. But but when it's an when it's an original and they're listening kind of hardcore to the lyrics, to the melody, to, you know, the playing, to whatever you're doing, it's hard for me to get out of my head and not project onto them, you know, like, oh, what do you think about this line? What do you think about this this particular part of the melody? What do you, you know, what do you think about, you know, we go down soft here and then we bring it back up. And one of the songs talks about, you know, not not talks straight up about suicide, but it, but it goes in that direction, right? So what are they gonna think about that? What are they gonna think about me uh in terms of what I'm writing? And then my other song, what isn't isn't as intense as that is that it's basically writing about a narcissistic love. Yeah. Um love, which isn't really possible. Um, you know, so that one wasn't wasn't as much, you know. So it is interesting looking at that. Like uh uh, do you? I mean, I know you don't play as much now, like you're much more interested in the recording, um sync and recording, but like when you played, did you do covers or was it all like usually all your stuff? Yeah, very rare did I do covers.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

Oh, okay. Because I was gonna ask you the same question, but I'm curious if that's Yeah, I you know, it's just I I guess I wanted to just see how I never really have been as interested in doing covers. I mean, there's been a few that I did, but they were very similar to like what I was doing. So um, and San Diego, well, there's like two parts of San Diego around music. There's one part that's like it's a tourist town. Most, you know, if you go to a club, if you go to a like um a show bar, if you're like, because I've been booked in bars um to open up for people, it depends on a lot of people want to hear covers, but I never did it anyways. You know, like I always just did my own stuff. But um, and I think I'm like the opposite. I'm so worried about messing up the cover, you know, like or wanting to change. I like to change covers a little bit to where they're not exact because I don't sing like everybody else. Like I don't have that kind of a voice where I'm gonna just sound just like somebody else. I do, I have, I do have like kind of a, I mean, there's probably some artists I could just pick that I sound a little bit more like and cover them. But you know, people that do a lot of cover music can sing in all these different ways, I guess. And so I never felt like I wanted to do covers. Um, but I also started in the songwriting crew here, which was, you know, San Diego had so many songwriters, it was a really strong in the 90s songwriter support supportive community. And so I did they people did come to just see you write your own songs. And so people were doing that around me a lot. It was uh funny though, because I do feel like, you know, people should know what they're getting into. Like, because you know, when you go to a songwriter's case, yeah, yeah, okay, because if I'm going to dinner somewhere, personally, if I'm gonna go have dinner somewhere and they're gonna have live music, I honestly don't probably want to hear the songs that I would sing. Right.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

That's and that's the other thing too, is like, what are you singing there and what's happening? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:46

Like, so I mean, for a while I was doing getting booked for weddings because I was playing with this bluegrass band, and we'd people would see us play and they'd be like, Can you play our wedding? And I'd be like, Do you really? You want like this? I don't like I I'm not it's not entertainment. Right, right. You know, but then I'd go, Well, you know, give me a list of songs that you like that I'll do, but they're gonna sound like us. They're not gonna sound like, you know, I'd have to tell them they're not gonna sound like the songs that you hear on the radio. And they'd be like, No, we like that. And I did some weddings that way, but I really didn't enjoy it because it was like, I'm not, I don't feel like I'm a songwriter to entertain. I feel like I'm a songwriter to write a story and to speak, to sing a story. And not everybody wants to hear that. And I appreciate that. I think as my job as a songwriter, it's like appropriate to know who I'm singing to. Right. So so when people ask me now, like, oh, we should have you come and play this, I'm like, you have you really do? I don't think you want me to, you know, the stuff I'm singing about, you know, it's just like the song I'm doing right now, Lay Me Down. It's about being a little kid and like listening to your parents fight. You know, it's not, it's not like I mean, I I Drew will tell you that I had the worst gig. I've had some bad gigs where I've been, I've said yes, because I was just saying yes to every gig, right? And I'd come to my band and we'd play my songs. And there was uh, I was doing a fund, there was a fundraiser for Center for Community Solutions, which was like a place here that like helps women who are uh like fleeing domestic violence, like just you know, sexual assault, like just and it's helped a lot of women and it's a nonprofit. And the gal that one of the gals that worked there knew me, and she was like, Can you come play our benefit? And it was like a banquet, and it was like the assistant, the DA and like all these like attorneys and stuff, and like because it's very attorney driven because they give their free services to these women to protect them, right? And I get up and I'm singing my songs, and you might my husband said it was the the the the the looks like I mean it was the worst kick. They all were just because it was about this kind of stuff, right? I'm seeing like about what they're trying to help women, it was too much, right? They didn't they really needed like a harpist or like somebody that was just gonna come play Flamethrower, just instrumental, yeah. I mean, I per I appreciate that that was like her intent, was like she thought this would be a good fit, right?

SPEAKER_01 46:20

Sometimes you just don't know until you're until you're there.

SPEAKER_02 46:23

But I do feel like the songs I write are good for sync because you can pick and choose, they're emotionally driven. Not everybody wants to go listen to the emotion. They don't not everybody wants to go, like if like I said, if I was at dinner, having dinner, and someone started singing about what I'm singing about, like this kind of somber, like I like it dark and somber. My goal is to make you cry in your car.

SPEAKER_03 46:49

Right, you know, shades. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

Well, and I think that's why, yeah, I think that's why covers, like why I've leaned towards covers anytime I play live, because most of the places were there, and and I haven't played like a ton of places live, and they've been like barbecues or hired for you know, small events or whatever, you know, and so they need like upbeat, you know, not maybe not too crazy, you know. Yeah, and and I and I love singing other people's songs. Like I really enjoy that. So I think that's partly why I like doing covers. Yeah, and I do like Dan, like my friend Danny and I will tweak them, twist them a little bit to fit our sound, and you know, we'll play with them a little bit. Um but yeah, that I think that's why I didn't do like I really haven't played a lot of my own stuff because the venue, you know, or whatever the event was, just didn't fit for it. Plus, you said something you that that made me realize something else as to why I haven't done a lot of my own stuff live. For one thing, even though I've been writing quote unquote since I was well, since I was little bitty, but like really kind of one of my, you know, like around like 14, 15, 16 is when I really started actually thinking of myself. I'm like, ooh, I write songs. Um around that time and up until good lord, maybe even like three or four years ago, I didn't know really what my style was, what my genre was. And at the time, we were kind of, I mean, you know, you and I, even though we're we're a little bit different in age, but we still grew up in that same time frame of, oh, you have to know your genre. Um, you're you're put in a box, and this is what you do, you know. Um, so I and I didn't I didn't know those things. And at the time, I thought I was gonna go into Christian music. I thought I was gonna be, you know, go that route, but that didn't quite feel right because I still wanted, I was writing about things, these dark things, you know, these and in the time I wasn't guided very well. That was like, you're allowed to feel those things, like, and and not not by my mom. It was just by society. It was like if you're a Christian, you don't have these sad thoughts and feelings. Well, I grew up depressed and anxious because of you know the mental stuff I deal with. So it was like, okay, so that's not my genre. Well, I always I love singing, you know. I used to love singing to Wilson Phillips, Paul Abdul, you know, and so I like ran the gamut, which is lovely for now because now I'm like, I can write whatever the hell I want, like whatever genre I feel like. You know, the the two songs I did on Friday night, one of them was Indie Pop is what I would call it, like indie pop border, yeah, no, indie pop. And then the other one is one of my cinematic pieces that uh, you know, when it's produced out, it's gonna be, you know, for those moments in in in a film, you know, or a TV series where it's like, oh god, all is lost. You know, what are what are we gonna do? You know? And I remember, excuse me, I asked my friend um Kyle, I was like, okay, he's the one that kind of helped me get, you know, get uh involved in this songwriter's night, because I didn't really know it was around here and it was kind of a chicken to go check it out. Yeah. Um but he's been doing live music, you know, around here for a while. And I was like, okay, Kyle, like I have this song that's you know, I do a lot of dark cinematic stuff. I was like, but I'd love to share it in certain venues. I'm like, do do artists and bands around here, do they? I mean, is it all poppy and happy and upbeat and big, or at least big, maybe it's not, you know, happy. And he's like, no. And I described him some of my pieces. He's like, go do it. Go to the songwriter nights, go do it. Yeah. People want to hear that night. Yeah. But I think it's like, again, it's like with your with your craft in general, figuring out who is your audience, you know. So it's like, we're not gonna play those things like we do this barbecue every year up at the college. Um, you know, for incoming students and their families. We're sort of performing for them, but also kind of in the background at parts, you know, like we come and go as being the front, and then also, you know, stepping in the back. We're not gonna play my dark cinematic stuff, you know, at this barbecue. We might play pieces because it is it, you know, it is fun. It's it's the story is sad. Yeah. So that's interesting. Like as artists, like figuring out, you know, yeah, trying all the different things, trying all the things, fail magnificently, as Rebecca would say.

SPEAKER_02 51:27

You know, I think that uh the the idea, most people when you they find out you sing or write songs, they only a lot of people have a picture of what that looks like, like, oh, you should come and play this, like because they it's whatever they listen to, right? Right. But but as artists and the creative side, to think it's good to like know, like I really started to find out, like, no, I'd really just like to do this. I don't really want to go and play other, I don't like doing many covers. I don't like and that's good. I'm not gonna do that. Like, it's not, it's okay to say no. I sorry, I don't play live.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

I think it's exactly it's very healthy. And we've talked about that where it's like it's very healthy now to say no. And it's you know, just like with values, like there are, you know, you have certain parameters that it's like, no, this is where I wanna. I've tried these other things, and this is where I, you know, you've explored this is where this is where you like to be. Yeah, and I think that's important for for any craft. Like again, going back to say, you know, a painter or something, it's like you may be the most phenomenal painter, but you gotta know where, you know, where I don't want to say where you fit or where you belong, because that feels limiting. It's more of where do you thrive? Where does your thrive? Where is your work come to life? Yes, even more. Yeah, it's like where is that, you know, it's just like it's just like, you know, to me, it's like buying um, you know, a a photograph or a piece of art and and buying the frame for it. It's like the frame, you know, and in this case would be the venue, you know, for us it'd be the venue. Yeah, the frame can can really add to the piece or it can really detract, you know, and it's the same thing with your with your craft. And so exploring those things and trying things out. I mean, you did that benefit. That was a fail magnificently.

SPEAKER_02 53:27

That was a fail magnificent. Well, every time as a I, you know, I do I do what I one of the things I had learned to get me through failing magnificently is to anything I do is a learning experience for the next time. So I always think like, okay, you know, we're gonna get through this gig and we're gonna like it's it's gonna be like getting through one more time of practicing. It's like a lot of times we would take gigs as like a practice gig, you know, like getting ready to practice for a bigger gig, you know, like a um, or just one that, you know, was um, you know, like I when I opened up for Xavier Redd, that was like the open, that was a big deal for me because he's now pretty he was just touring the his first tour in the US, and like that was a it wasn't like a packed, it was it was almost packed, but it wasn't like a sold-out show. People didn't know about him yet. He's do you know who he is? He plays the de jury do. I heard the name. He has this his most popular song is like follow, follow the sun. Anyways, he's he's lovely, and um and he does, you know, he was he's toured all over and he's just very like down to earth, but that was a great gig. So it's like all of the other times that we had played that prepared us for that. So it's how I always think of failing magnificently. And I know that you know, I kind of switched us off. I like had, oh, I wanted to, I wrote a note saying I want to ask her about the cut covers because you you and I are a little different in that way. I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, that's such a fun covers.

SPEAKER_01 55:03

So cool to see the differences there.

SPEAKER_02 55:05

Um, but I would the AI, that was another thing we wanted to talk about on this, is just like AI, what our take is on AI in all of this with creativity, because um, you know, we went to the production music conference in October last year, where I'm going again, I think you're coming again. AI is a topic. Um, we'd stall a lot of stuff about AI there. And so, yeah, what's what what are we doing personally and creatively with AI? How are we using it? And then like any thoughts on it. Uh you could like kick it off, Chelsea, if you want.

SPEAKER_01 55:38

Okay, yeah, sounds good. And I'm thinking um that was I loved what we were chatting about earlier and talking about the show. So if we end up needing to do a part two and where we can delve more into AI, um, then then we shall do that. Um, but yeah, the kind of the overall, I mean, you and I have talked so much about it, about AI. Um one of the things it was so funny, I was very reluctant um to use AI to even explore it at first. Um a lot of times I'm totally game for new technologies, new things, you know, to to see how they, you know, just to explore them. I'm usually up for exploring new things. But but it was so funny. I remember my brother introduced me to Chat GPT a couple years ago or whatever. And um he he's so funny because when he uh when he finds things that are potentially creative or whatever, he he loves to share them with me. Like that he knows you know how much of a creative I am and he loves like connecting on that. Um so he was sharing that with me because he's like, he's like, check this out. He's like, you can totally write like a country song, you know, or he's like, he loved he loves country. So he's like, you can totally write like a country song on here. And so he he you know gave the instruction to chat chat GBT, you know, write me a song based, you know, include this, these couple words, and make sure it's you know, upbeat or whatever. Yeah. And sure enough, he came back with the lyric, and I was like, and but but I was not, you know, like so. For those of you guys that are not watching it, sometimes I was like jaw-dropped, but not in a good way. You know, that was, and this was back before they really started having the conversations on AI and oh, is it gonna replace creatives and stuff like that? So that's what made me really hesitant. I was like, ugh, and also a little bit of like snobbery of uh, I don't need to use AI. I'm gonna write my, you know, I'm creative on my own. I'm actually not that kind of a jerk, but but there was that part of me that I was like, no, I'm not gonna rely on AI at all. You know, I don't want to basically I didn't want to compromise the integrity of my art, right? And then slowly over the last couple years, I've started using it, you know, kind of delving into like, well, kind of still more of like a just a Google search, right? So I'm looking for different things. And then I started realizing like the different ways that I could use it in my art without it replacing what I'm doing. Yeah. Because I started realizing I'm like, I and you guys, I hope you don't think I'm dumb for just realizing this over the last couple years, but I'm like, well, I edit photos in Photoshop, right? Besides the the very blatant AI tools of you know, cropping or cutting something out, you know, totally pulling something out of a photo and making it look like it wasn't ever there. That's that's AI. Like I don't know why I didn't register that for the longest time. Same thing in in music. There's certain parts of it, you know, just the recording part, like in the in the um in our DAWs and our digital audio workfaces. Workface, workspace, work face, whatever I workspace, I think. I always forget workspace. Um, you know, there's tools in there that it's like we're not using them to make the art, but pitch correction, that's AI. Yeah, right. That is and that's an alert. Like, I don't know anybody that doesn't use pitch correction, at least to a teeny tiny degree, just because sometimes you hit something that it's like beautiful, except for this one teeny tiny little part. And I was like, oh, okay. So I utilize that sometimes in um oh, what was the other example? Oh, you would you were talking about Canva or we were talking about Canva earlier. That's a a lot of that stuff is AI. Now, so a lot of it's you know, the foundation is original art and original creations, and then you take those and you utilize AI to bring them maybe more to life, or maybe maybe help lift them up. Like I don't want to say that because I don't my my my big thing is like I don't use AI to like I said to create the art. Yeah. I use it to enhance it or help convey a little bit more, or like when we're organizing and working on our script, you know, we utilize it to um organize our thoughts, figure out, you know, what do we what do we need in here? Not the actual content that's gonna be in there, because that's us. That's the difference. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it's like I have saved myself so much time when I'll go in, use AI to organize myself, to to basically where I'm weak, you know, with like my executive functioning, I'll go in and I'll utilize a AI for that, but then the actual creation of the of the work, the art, the writing, whatever, that's me.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:48

The idea. Yeah, so I think that helps. I think the I I think that um, well, I use Claude a lot at home. Yeah. And then at work in real estate, we have chat GPT that we're using. And um, but and there's I know there's other AI stuff too that I'm like, but I'm just thinking of those two in particular that I'm like my regular go-tos. Yeah. Um yeah, and Canva has an AI generated thing too. Like, so I've I find for creative stuff, like the organization, it's really helpful for. Um, you know, but I don't what I don't like about it is people using the AI for the idea. So like, um, and I think that's becoming more obvious. Like, I think that um, you know, you could go learn how to do AI and say, write me a song about, you know, just kind of create, you know, write me a song about this. And that I've tried that just to see what it does. Yeah, just forget it. And it's like structured properly, there's a lot of stuff, but it doesn't have a real emotion to it necessarily. I mean, sometimes the words I'm like surprised, like, wow, that's kind of an interesting word. And and like so, when I am songwriting and I'm doing my own, I might converse with Claude and say, like, hey, uh, you know, I'm working on this song. I'm trying to find a word that works well with this. This is my meaning, and then it'll give me some options. It's that different to me than using a thesaurus or something, or like going, but it's just faster. Yeah, it's just faster. But I will also say that a lot of times it's wrong. Like just not hitting it. So it's not something that I can just like punch in and do, and then, you know, it's not efficient. It does definitely need my uh my, if it's my idea, my feel, my perspective that I'm trying to write, or the perspective from someone else, I have to be very clear with myself on what I'm doing. And like, but I do like the a structuring idea. Um and and lately, like one time I did use AI, and it, I don't think it that it was that good um to try to do cover art for a song that we were submitting to something because I needed cover art. And I didn't have time to like go and do um, it was like for that song Black Sheep, right? I needed like I had a picture, this is what I want. I kept trying to tell it what I wanted, how I wanted it. It kept giving me back, it's it was very generic. So, like a lot of stuff can look very generic to me. Where like a graphic designer would look make it look very unique. Um, but sometimes it just works. And and um as far as like the sound, like like Suno and some of these other um I I'm not a fan of that because I think Suno is like the um AI generated, like I think my niece and nephew use it. They're like seven and twelve. And they go on and they can they can like have make a song in 10 minutes. Oh wow. And it sings it back to them. Um, or you can you can get a lot of I have never used it, but I've watched them do it and I've heard a lot about it. And I think there's a lot on Spotify that there are some artists that are on Spotify that are not real artists. It's like, and there can be an argument that that's an art itself that you're gonna use AI to create. However, as an artist, I think there's something that happens in our brains, and I think this is more important for me and people to hear when we sit down with an instrument and I play an instrument and I make that sound, and so that can also be on computer, you know. I think right. Yeah, because sometimes it's digital. Yeah, digital sounds create. There's something that happens there when we're doing it that's not happening when we have AI or something else, do it. So um, I'm a full believer in that. I want to learn it fast. I use AI all the time to help me get to like if I'm stuck in a song, where do I go? I don't have the music training that some of these people I work with do. Right. So AI will tell me, I'm like, oh, okay. And then I can do the chord, or I can do, you know, so I'm using it that way. I I think I would even be, there's a there's one couple, there's one gal that is using AI. I can't remember her, Kelly Borsch or something, Kelly Bosch, I think she's on Spotify. She is using AI as her art. I'm kind of fascinated by that in the sense that she the songs are good. Yeah. They're really good. And her artwork that she's doing, I don't know what she's using, is really fascinating. And it's obvious that it's AI. It's kind of like watching a sci fi movie or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:47

Yeah. Yeah, it's like when you know that something you can tell these days when something was created with Canva. Yeah. Because it's just got this feel to it. It's so interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:56

It's got its own feel. So I'm I'm kind of like torn on that. I have I I think using one of her songs as like a reference song would be cool, you know, and then going and having real music created, like real instruments to do it. But um it would, you know, the thing that I don't like is that a lot of people are they might use it um because they don't pay then have to pay the the musicians, right? That's it, that's an argument that I'm for that I think musicians deserve to also get paid. Um but we are in this world now of AI. Like, how do we balance that? Right. Um I've thought about oh, sorry, go ahead. Well, no, and I said I thought I was gonna say I've thought about like, okay, I've got some songs I'm redoing. What do I want to do a video? Maybe I'll try using AI for a video, combining AI and some other ideas to create a video that is gonna, as opposed to like, I'm not gonna be able to hire a director and do a whole video for a song. And do you know what I mean? Like, so I'm starting to think about that, but I think I want more of an F. So I have values, right? Like I have these values I live in. So authenticity is a big one. It's like number two on my list well-being and then authenticity. So for me, I have to feel like it's authentic. And if it's not authentic, I can't, I'm not gonna do it. So I think applying our values to it. Now, if your value is money, and that's number one, you're gonna be like, I don't care. I just want money. Right. That's just not mine. So I feel like it's not that I don't like money, I like money.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:37

I just not want to, it's not in my top five of you're not willing to forego other things that would you might need to in order to make the money. No, and that are yeah, higher values.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:48

That's why I would never be with billionaire. Like, I mean, I you know what I mean. I don't care that you have money.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:53

Right, right. I really don't care if you have miserable if if it was the wrong person. If it was the right person with billionaire, my friend. My husband was a billionaire, sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:03

Yeah, but you know, I I told I don't I I told my the one of my friends who's a a character kind of in our show, he said, I'm surprised you never he was talking about a woman that he was, I guess, married to somebody for his money or whatever. I'm surprised you didn't marry somebody for your money when you were young. I'm like, it would never have happened because I never I don't care that much about it. So I think AI and a lot of our technology is driven by that being an idea the idea that everybody wants money at the top. Everyone wants money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money. I feel like we're in this like massive money addiction right now in our culture. Yeah, I don't have that. So to me, I'm okay with like using it or not using it. Like I'm not driven by um I have to do it fast because if I don't do it fast, I'm not gonna make the money. Right, right. Which is, I think, the underlying theme with a lot of AI.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:04

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a good point. And I think one of the things kind of as you were talking, I realized one of the things that I really like AI for, besides helping to structure or organize or teach me something that it's like I don't quite like you were saying, with like the where where would I go next with this, you know, like from a music theory standpoint, something that you can learn through a book or, you know, by through a classroom. Like, to me, some of that stuff, because I, you know, quite frankly, like there's so many things that I would love to go back to school for or take a community class on, and I just can't afford that. Like, that's just not an option for me. So there's even arguments that could be made that like I'm using AI in a way that's maybe not even, you know, um, not even okay for some people, you know, like a professor might be like, oh, I'm losing out on student, you know. So it's like it's so hard, you know, and I think I think everybody has to kind of figure out where they stand with it. But but so besides besides learning or besides organizing and kind of structural things for me, I I do love using it to learn things or um oh gosh, I was doing a really cool deep dive. Which again, you can, you know, you've got to be careful because the the you know, AI is not a professional. AI, for example, I was Googling, you know, some certain things about my blood work that I got back a while back, and I was like, oh, you know, da-da-da-da. And it was it was just kind of fun, the conversation that you kind of can't have that with doctors anymore because you don't have they don't have time for you. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:38

You have to come prepared.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:40

Yeah, so yeah, exactly. And then you can come prepared. So I I I enjoy using it for things like that. I'll even use it for so for example, I wish I could draw. I wish I because I have so many images in my head that I want to get out. Yeah, animation. And the only way that I know how to get them out, yeah. The only way that I know how to get them out is to is to write about them. But there are certain things that I'm like, ah, like I wish I could draw like little comic, you know, figurines and um like cartoonish type things because there's so many things that happen on a day-to-day basis that are just quick flashes in my head. I'm like, oh my God, that'd be hilarious. And I can see the caption and everything. So sometimes I will utilize AI for that just to get the idea down. Um, and then my goal, my thought was, okay, then I'll find somebody that can, you know, take this idea and create it so that it is authentic real art and they can put their twist on it and their style or whatever. So I'll utilize it for that. Sometimes, like, like I try not to use it for for me, I try not to use it for cover art only because I would love to pay an artist, either me as a photographer, you know, go get the image that I want for an artist to draw it. But right now with with limited budget, I will utilize AI to a degree where it's like if there's something, one of our one of our pieces of cover art, we I really needed a very specific, uh, let's say, what was it? Um, oh, out a lot out alive. Uh one of the songs I co-wrote with uh my friend Pete. We needed a uh, you know, kind of a we wanted it by the ocean overlooking, you know, and the sun was coming up and it and it was a it was a good morning, but it had been, you know, the song is about am I gonna make make it out alive? And by the end of the song, you know, it's it is positive, it is hopeful. Um but we needed a very specific, you know, a gal, uh, a a lady, you know, anyway, so lady sitting on a, you know, kind of on a not a shanty or shack, but somewhere next to the ocean, the sun, right, you know, so we went through all these different iterations. So I messed with that to try and get the idea that we wanted.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:55

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:56

I like it. And then as a bit of a bit of a graphic designer, like I then created it from there, you know. So it was like I used it to supplement in that case where I couldn't afford, you know, but honestly, like a lot of people might it might still even be like, yeah, but that's taken away from you know, artists that want that want need the work. So, you know, it's it's hard. It's hard to figure out, you know, yeah, sometimes what to use. Or like sometimes I just need a I'm like, what the heck is the phrase for, you know, where I'm trying, and I'll describe it to AI where I'm like, what is that, what is that phrase? You know, sometimes I do that, and to me, like that's just that's you know, like that's not creating anything, that's finding the information. So I guess that's I guess that's where like I try and kind of look at AI. I'm like, okay, am I trying to create something or am I looking for information to help me create? Yeah. Maybe that's and that's kind of where I try and evaluate, you know, when I'm getting ready to use AI. It's still a very gray area. And it's here to stay.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:00

I mean I don't see AI going anywhere. It's just kind of like it's like the internet and the computers. You know, it's like as long as you know, we're we're still like growing and as a in humanity at some point, you know. I mean, there's it's going to be here. I think there's regulations that'll be coming on some open, which I hope so, because I think that there's there are people that are using it to exploit. Um, but I think that it's another avenue, just like all the other avenues that we have to communicate with people. It's whether or not it's authentic. If it's being used in a way to manipulate and to uh coerce or exploit, that's just there's basic right from wrong. That's just like kind of how I see it. There's basic right from wrong. And unfortunately, we don't live in human beings, aren't all capable of living that way. There's going to be people who, when they've been given free reign, they're gonna do things to be selfish and just for themselves and and not to help other people or to take away from other people. So it's like I think that, you know, there's an idea that, oh, well, we're as adults, everybody should just be able to know right from wrong. And that's we're being shown out right now. That's not the case. But I think having the conversation more and talking about it and, you know, just having to roll with some of the changes as an artist, you know, going forward. I would imagine that as we're getting ready to pitch our TV series, there's going to be some that are being pitched that were completely written by AI. Oh, yeah. That's true. And I'm sure you know what? That's just gonna be a fact, but it's not gonna have the experience that we've had.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:01

Yep. It's not gonna have the emotional hand feel when there's no soul or emotion behind something.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:08

It's not, it's never going to be able to do that. Human beings are gonna be different than anything robotic. And I think that's a that's something that's that I feel like in the tech world is trying to, they're trying to push this idea that one day it's gonna be able to do that. And I don't think that's true. I think that as human beings and life in general is so much more complicated and so much more the smallest, smallest little pieces of us and the biggest, biggest pieces of us are driven by stuff that I can't even tell you that I'm sure scientists can, but it's kind of like, you know, when Einstein said, you know, he discovered you cannot destroy energy. Right. So it's like you that energy that we have is something that's so unique that every person has. So use AI as a tool, use it ethically, use it within your values, you know, be kind to others. You know, there are gonna be some artists that are gonna lose work because of it. I mean, but there's going to be maybe other avenues for artists too with it. So we I think trying to have an open mind is what I'm trying to do. I know Yeah, I know we both have to, we have our the rest of our day to go to, and we wanted to just talk about our show and AI and I wanted to just close with one thing um on AI.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:38

Just the other the other big issue that I know you and I both well it I I I mean, I I believe anyways, yes, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:47

We know each other enough. You probably know each other enough.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:50

I uh the the the probably the biggest thing that I have with AI is the environmental, you know, and I just don't I don't know enough about you know how all of that works to know what the solutions are. I know that I'm I know that I don't know enough, but I also do trust that you know some of the information that is out there, like that it uses just a ridiculous like it can it's really harmful for communities um because of the environmental impact. That really like that just really weighs on my heart. I'm glad you're but you know, but I still use AI. So it's like what do we, you know, I would be so curious. This would be such a great topic to throw on our socials, like what do you guys think about AI? And then, you know, is there hope for environmental, you know, fixes for the environmental problems, you know? Um I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:46

But that's a whole other yeah. I I think I think that is a really important thing that we should be thinking about because if advancement in technology, no matter what it is, risks our uh well-being on this earth and the and and well-being of people. Yeah, anybody. Anybody in these forms. I mean, that's for me, that's a top priority of my value. So I think that needs to be regulated. So there's there there, I do believe there's probably a the the the part that is I struggle with right now with the tech industry is the need and the speed for everything to happen so fast and all the money that's being pumped into it. Yes, and so if if we were able to have um a more enlightened view of it, which there's a lot of people that are able to do this and who are able to really take a look at the environmental versus you know the the speed of what we're doing, uh-huh. Doing this, I think it's fixable. I think right now we're just in this world of like there's no guardrails. Yep. And um, it's going to take the people of the communities that are faced with. I mean, I've I've seen some videos online of the noise pollution, the water pollution. Yeah, the water pollution is the big one that I've seen. Yeah. And uh we do have, you know, our resources here should be for human beings and the environment. But that's, you know, um unfortunately not everybody thinks that. I think that more people, more creative people probably do think that way, that are like artistic and creative. And um, I think there's a very big disconnect right now with the technology world and humanity. And I'm hoping that through art, you know, and through our uh creativity and through expression, that that can that bridge we can there's a bridge that can come between to bridge those two together. Because right now, humanity is, I feel like being uh left in the dust. I agree. And um that has to change. And that has to change. Yeah. And yeah. And on that note, on that, on that happy note, we will say goodbye to everybody and come back for another episode. We don't know what we're doing the next episode. Sometimes we don't know until something pops up. Um, but we would love to hear from you. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. We're on all the platforms if you want to listen. Um, hope you're doing your vocal warmups. I actually do them now before we do our show because I we talked for a long time. So that's a new thing. So if you talk a lot in your job and you're losing your voice or having trouble, go online, find some vocal warmups. Those will help keep your muscles in there strong. And yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:47

All right. Well, so good to see you, Christy. As always. All right, bye guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:54

Thanks so much for listening to the creative download. Hosted and produced by Christy Bruneau and Chelsea Lee. Edited by Chelsea Lee, Shelby Shelly.