21- Decoding Dyslexia with Dr. Olivia Colomaio, part 1

In part 1 of the conversation with Dr. Olivia Colomaio, we dive into what dyslexia actually is, why it’s often misunderstood, and how those myths affect piano teaching and our students. Olivia shares research, lived experience, and practical ways teachers can adapt without waiting for a diagnosis, while we urge more empathy for families navigating dyslexia and neurodiversity.

We also talk openly about why parents may not disclose diagnoses, the emotional journey of seeking answers, and how music teachers can approach families with respect, curiosity, and care. Most importantly, we offer practical, compassionate strategies you can use right away with your own students.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Podcast Focus
• 3:37 Guest Introduction And Credentials
• 5:41 Olivia’s Dyslexia Story And Early Teaching
• 10:20 Defining Dyslexia Beyond Myths
• 14:33 Barriers To Diagnosis And The Role Of IQ
• 18:27 School Screeners And Twice-Exceptional Students
• 20:29 Why Parents May Not Disclose
• 22:16 How Teachers Should Approach Parents
• 25:32 Adjusting Pedagogy Without A Label
• 28:51 Closing, Part Two Preview, And CTA

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 1:22

Hello and welcome back to Creative Piano Pedagogy. I'm your host, Dr. Elizabeth Davis, and it is great to be back with you for episode number 21 of our podcast. If you're new or returning, we're just glad you're here. Thank you for listening. Make sure you subscribe wherever you're listening so that you don't miss any upcoming episodes. You can find us on social creative piano pedagogy on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube. Um, and we're just delighted that you're here. This podcast is focused on practical teaching tips, understanding neurodiversity, using creativity to teach out-of-the-box students with intentionality, compassion, and understanding. We talk about crafting joy-filled student-focused piano and music lessons where our students' humanity and their unique learning needs are not an afterthought, but they're an intentionally integral part of our teaching approach and everything we do. Today I am joined with an expert in the world of dyslexia and piano study. You know that everything we do here is always hopefully based deeply in practicality. We want to provide real-life teaching tips that are founded in really good research so you don't have to wonder, uh, is that actually a good idea? Today I am joined by somebody who is doing groundbreaking research in the field of dyslexia and piano study. Dr. Olivia Colomayo is an incredible pianist, a collaborative pianist, and just a world-class pedagogue and teacher. We went to the same university for our doctorates at different times. Um, and she did a dissertation on dyslexia and piano study that was given an award from the university. She currently serves as the director of the Center for Piano Studies at the University of South Carolina, and she coordinates pre-collegiate and adult piano programs. She leads curriculum development, oversees emerging teachers, and is just an overall excellent teacher with a heart for students and also a heart for helping teachers understand dyslexia from a unique perspective. We had so many wonderful things to talk about that we split our conversation into two podcast episodes. That way you don't miss out on any of the wonderful teaching tips that she shares. So enjoy the first part of our conversation about dyslexia and piano study. Hi, Olivia. Hey. Thank you so much for agreeing to be here with me. Um, I've been really excited about chatting with you for a long time, not just because it's really fun to chat with you, but because I think your area of expertise will really help a lot of teachers because what we're going to talk about today, it represents a large amount of questions I see online and questions that come to me. So thank you very much for being here. Um, can you just share a little bit about yourself, your teaching background, how you came to focus your research on dyslexia and neurodivergent learners?

SPEAKER_00: 4:45

Yeah, um, so I am the director of the Center for Piano Studies at USC in South Carolina, and I get to oversee um graduate teachers who are um learning how to teach everybody, uh pre-collegiate adults, um, etc. And um I also accompany choirs and um really I got into teaching um neurodivergent students um about I think it was about five years after I started teaching students with dyslexia. Um and I I really got into teaching students with dyslexia because um I'm dyslexic and I started noticing that I wasn't like other people when I was about 14. I mean I always knew but I was I was homeschooled until ninth grade and so when I went into public school um I really started noticing differences and I had some some pretty great teachers um in the in the public school system that were um just made me aware of of things. I I messed up an assignment really badly at one point and um my teacher was like, Hey, I think you might have dyslexia, I think you need to get tested for that because you understand this material, but you're missing stuff. So um I actually went through the testing process when I was um 15, which is quite late. Um but once we knew what was going on, um I started wondering how does it how does it affect music? Does it affect music? And I just kind of accepted this um belief that it didn't. Um it doesn't affect anything. And that's just a lack of understanding what dyslexia is.

SPEAKER_01: 6:44

Well, and probably easier just to think that on initially, so that you don't have to change everything about everything.

SPEAKER_00: 6:51

Yeah. And um and where I was in the public school, like I said, it's some great teachers, uh, but it was also really rural. So we didn't have a ton of resources. Um they gave me extra time on stuff, which I can talk about later. Um But um that that was pretty much it. Let me take things in a separate location. So I didn't really have the education um or resources to even entertain the idea that it might affect how I was reading music. And gotcha. Um I also knew that I was bad at reading music. So I never really I didn't really make the connection. And I was asked um up until I went to college, um, I was asked, like, does it affect how you read music? And I would just very confidently say no. Um but I started noticing near the end of my high school experience with one of my students that um they also made the same mistakes I did and struggled in the same ways that I struggled. And I was like, I wonder if this I wonder if they're like me.

SPEAKER_01: 7:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 7:54

Um and I started examining some of my students I'd had um because I started teaching when I was like 13, um, not professionally or well, but I started teaching very young. And um again, very rural, no teachers, nothing. Yeah. Um so uh I started examining some of the other students I'd had, and I'm like, I wonder if that person was also like me. And how how would I have handled that differently? So um I got into it around the end of high school, and then when I went to college, um the disability coordinator for the university is the first person who really explained what dyslexia was to me and how it affected me. And um, the more that she explained it to me, the better I understood it and was able to actually evaluate how it affected me. I see. Um so undergrad was kind of this like trial period uh because no one had ever had a dyslexic student before, or so they thought. Um and didn't know. So they thought that's a good phrase to remember. Um I said something the other day uh to a group of teachers. It was like, if you think you've never taught a student with dyslexia, you haven't taught. Right. Or maybe you've taught four students. Um maybe. But yeah, so I I got into teaching students with dyslexia kind of without trying. Um, and then really started focusing on it in my master's and afterward. Um and then of course, when I knew I needed to get a doctorate, it was I I want to write a dissertation on dyslexia. This is a this is an epidemic. Um we have to we have to address this. Um neurodivergent students, all neurotypes, just it was like, hey, you do this thing that's different. Can you also take this kid? And I was like, yeah, sure. Um, because my teaching philosophy is that anybody can learn um to some extent to experience joy at the piano. So why say no? Why not? No, we don't.

SPEAKER_01: 10:00

Exactly. And I think that's kind of interesting. Um, so I am ADHD. I was diagnosed when I was three, which was really early for especially being female in the like late 80s. Um came after a lot of trial and error, but I have also felt like, and my friends and colleagues have told me, Elizabeth, you're kind of a magnet for kids who are very unique, uh, very unique learners, kids who are just really out of the box. Like, well, I don't know what's up with that, but I'm also out of the box. So maybe we kind of have a I don't know, maybe the students were meant to reach come to us. I don't know. But I I know what you mean looking back on a lot of my early teaching, and like, oh, they were so on the spectrum, or whatever. And I I did not, I didn't have the training experience or perspective to understand what I was dealing with. But I I spend a lot of time thinking about those kinds of things too. Um, and even the a lot of the ADHD traits that are confused for other things. I'm like, oh wow, that's how I feel too. I wish I'd picked up on that, but I was 18. What are you supposed to do? But thanks for sharing that. And thanks for also sharing that you are dyslexic as well, because gosh, I can imagine that gives you a really compassionate and also understanding just foundation for all of your teaching. Um and I think that's something that a lot of teachers struggle with if they never struggled with learning or had anything different that they had to work through and they were the typical student. I think it can be difficult to be compassionate or see teaching differently. So I, you know, we we learn from what we go through. And in your case, I think it's definitely made you an amazing, amazing teacher. Um, there are so many confusing acronyms and definitions and confusing terms, just in teaching in general, but especially for like special education, neurodivergence, learning disabilities. Can you help us understand what exactly is dyslexia?

SPEAKER_00: 12:22

Um I can try, yes. So you are correct. Um it's very confusing. And um, if you look at the DSM 5 TR, which is our most recent edition, then um it's gonna be categorized under specific learning disability or list learning disorder, and um in the ICD-11, which is the most recent um international classification of diseases, which is a bit uh it's a lot to take in. And you say international classification classification of diseases makes it sound like something you don't want to catch or that it's something that's contagious. It does. Um but the um the they both define dyslexia underneath the umbrella term of specific learning disability, specific learning disorder. Um and it is just like a sub a subset of that. But um my favorite definition is actually from the International Dyslexia Association. Um and they had a the same definition for like 20 years. Right. Um and then all they they came out with the new 2025 um definition of dyslexia, which was it was really cool. Um I'm a member of the IDA, and so um I was one of the people, not because I'm special, just because I have a membership, they uh contacted all of the members and asked for um feedback.

SPEAKER_01: 13:45

Oh, that's so cool.

SPEAKER_00: 13:47

Definition in advance. So that was it was really, really cool. It was back in the the summer, I think, when I was contacted, and it was like, can you like give feedback on this? And I was like, Yeah, that's so cool. Um so the the term that the board has uh the definition the board came to is uh is this one. Um and I haven't memorized this one yet. Um so dyslexia is a specific learning disability characterized by difficulties in word reading and or spelling that involves accuracy, speed, or both, and vary depending on the orthography. So, like how it's written and how it's um how it's spoken. Uh these difficulties occur along a continuum of severity and persist even with instruction that is effective for the individual's peers. Um and I love that sentence.

SPEAKER_01: 14:36

That's a really good one.

SPEAKER_00: 14:38

The causes of dyslexia are complex and involve combinations of genetic and neurobiological and environmental influences that interact throughout development. Underlying difficulties with phonological and morphological processing are common but not universal, and early oral language weaknesses often foreshadow literacy challenges. So basically, what it's saying is um that the there are underlying problems with most people with understanding um the phonological, the sounds of words, and then the morphological, which is how you put them together and pull them apart. Um and the but not everybody is like that. And um a good um indication that someone might develop dyslexia or have it is early issues with oral language. Um so sometimes people who have delayed speech are kind of watched a little more closely uh to see like how are we processing language. Um secondary consequences can include like reading comprehension problems, reduced reading and writing experience that can impede growth in the language. Um, it can also impede growth in knowledge, written expression, overall academic achievement, um, psychological well-being and employment opportunities may also be affected.

SPEAKER_01: 15:55

Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 15:56

Cannot say enough about that one.

SPEAKER_01: 15:58

Wow. Let's just add that right there at the end, like a little poop.

SPEAKER_00: 16:03

Yeah. Uh although identification and targeted instruction are important at any age, language and literacy support before and during the early years of education is particularly effective. So they're just like with every condition, with every anything, early intervention is the way.

SPEAKER_01: 16:19

It's sounding like if I'm just hearing this for the first time, it's very complex. It's not just students or children who are struggling to put words together or read. It can be many different things, and it can depend the the severity can depend on a lot of things too.

SPEAKER_00: 16:37

Yes. Uh so that's a really common um it's a misconception, I guess, but it but um lots of people think, oh, you're dyslexic, you read backwards, you read inside out, you and that's basically where it ends. Right. Um but a lot of the the issues with interventions come from that um commonly held belief. Yes. Um it's kind of similar to like um students with ADHD, and it's like, oh, you just can't sit still. Like, well, okay. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 17:10

It's never that simple. Yes. I had this conversation with a teacher uh last year or the year before, and we were brainstorming some teaching solutions together, and I said, you know, have you ever researched dyslexia? Because, you know, that may be a factor in what you're dealing with with your student. Oh no, they don't see letters backwards, so it's not dyslexia. Um, I was like, well, it's actually not. It would be great if that was the litmus, if that was the litmus for all of these, you know, you know, all these learning conditions or whatever, if there was that simple of a solution, wouldn't that be nice? Uh but it's just not. It doesn't seem like it is.

SPEAKER_00: 17:50

It's it's it's definitely not. Um, and it's nothing is that simple. Um unfortunately, a lot of issues that um people run into as they get out of, they don't mention it in the definition, obviously. Um, but getting a definite getting a diagnosis for dyslexia is very difficult.

SPEAKER_01: 18:10

I've heard this from so many parents and teachers.

SPEAKER_00: 18:13

If you if you are outside the developmental years, it is nearly impossible. Um, and there's lots of reasons why, but um money is like number one. Uh if you're an adult with dyslexia, uh, it's gonna be$3,000. Oh my goodness. It's so expensive. Wow. Um and if you are someone who doesn't have good insurance coverage, they still, even with great insurance coverage, it still will be multi-thousand dollars of tests. Um, and it takes months to do it. And so you have to have the resources to be able to go undergo that process. Oh my goodness. You also have to be with a clinician who actually understands how dyslexia works because um it shows up different, just like with ADHD, it can show up different in genders. Oh yes. Um not not to the degree, not to so as severe a degree. Um, but it's it is quite different. And um one of the biggest factors that's taken into consideration during the diagnosis process is IQ. Um and if IQ is too high, it can um make it can influence the decision. I did not know this. Um I'm I'm not a psychiatrist, um, but I have seen it over and over again with students. And I've actually been, I've been assessed three times. Um and the first time I didn't get a diagnosis. Um and it was because of my IQ. They were like, you process really slowly, but your IQ is too high.

SPEAKER_01: 19:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 19:51

Um so I say, okay. Um but I've had students that have gone through processes like that too, and the mom's like, I just I really don't understand. Like I really feel like this is what's happening. Um same thing with ADHD diagnosis. IQ is really taken into consideration. So if you're too smart, you won't do that.

SPEAKER_01: 20:09

I did not know that was I did not know that was a factor for dyslexia. Now that you're saying that, I am like making lots of parallels between that and the process for like ADHD or autism diagnosis in older years. But um But I did not know that the the IQ played such a part in the d diagnosis for dyslexia. That is fascinating.

SPEAKER_00: 20:34

Um kind of horrifying. Yes, it it is, and I and I should say at the Yale Center for Dyslexia and Creativity, um, they are obviously experts. So they can give the the same clinical tests that everybody gives. And they also created a screener that is very affordable and that public schools can adopt and many have, um, to screen every single year. And it like teaches the teacher how to screen and it's super effective, it's very user-friendly. Um, but some schools have not adopted it. Um and uh they don't necessarily they they do not dismiss a diagnosis based on IQ because they have discovered, and it's all over their research, that like um most people who are neurotypical or neurodivergent um are not uh in the lower IQ.

SPEAKER_01: 21:29

Yes, thank you for saying that.

SPEAKER_00: 21:31

Um they're actually uh double um oh my goodness, what is it called? Oh twice exceptional. Twice exceptional um is a is a whole form of um gifted is a form of neurodivergence, but also just twice exceptional of like, well, they have a high IQ, but they also have ADHD. They have a high IQ, but they also have the 2E.

SPEAKER_01: 21:52

I see that abbreviation a lot in research.

SPEAKER_00: 21:54

Yeah. Um so Yale and other other places, but especially the Yale Center for Creativity and Dyslexia, they have really um kind of pioneered um the the Shewitzes have really pioneered it over there.

SPEAKER_01: 22:09

Yes. This was something I was gonna ask you later, but it ties in so beautifully with what we're talking about. I get a lot of questions from piano teachers, and if you dare to dip your toe into the abyss that is Facebook, you see lots of questions from teachers about um, you know, frustration that parents haven't shared a diagnosis. That's probably the thing that makes people's like anger really get up in piano teachers. Like they get so frustrated about this. And with what you're describing about how horrific the process is to get a diagnosis, um might that make us a bit more understanding when we get students that we haven't been told that they are dyslexic or that they are ADHD or that they're on the spectrum, might that give us a bit of more understanding or compassion for those parents because it's such a terrible process?

SPEAKER_00: 23:03

Uh yes, it should. It should definitely give us um a perspective into it. And then I I would add to that um there is a whole Emotional process that one has to go through. I'm not a parent, but I am a godparent. And my godson is well, he needs to be reassessed because when he was, the levels were not what they are now. But he is most likely level three autism. Very, very, very much a communicator, uh, but very nonverbal communicator. Um, and speaks in gestalts most of the time and um is has a lot of echolalia and struggles to communicate um with words. Um and my my sister has just done a beautiful job of being his mother um and trying to get him resources that are, as everyone knows, far and few between. Right. Um and very expensive. But uh I had to watch her process go through that process. Um, and he got a diagnosis when he was four, um, which is early, especially for the middle of nowhere where they live. Um, but I had to to watch my sister process this thing because she had this son and he's perfect and he's beautiful and he's lovely and he is not like other children.

SPEAKER_01: 24:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 24:36

And being told that by teachers and clinicians and doctors over and over again is really psychologically like there's a lot that has the the parent has to process. And so coming to terms with it before you're even ready to approach the diagnosis process is a whole other thing. So um, as piano teachers, like we see our kids for a very limited time, once a week, sometimes twice a week. Um, we we have to be full of compassion for these parents. Um, and not in a, oh, you just I don't know how you do it type of way. Um but but in a um in a we understand that this is a lot of this is a lot of work, this is a lot to unpack, and this is not how you thought your life was gonna look. Um and it's beautiful and it and it's wonderful, and there are so many great things that come out of it, but it's different than what you expected. And so we have to hold space for that as well. Like maybe they're still processing it.

SPEAKER_01: 25:36

Yes. And you know, it's also possible that the parents have not picked up on what piano teachers are noticing because playing piano is a different set of skills than reading out of a book at school. So the parents may not be observing, you know, the same things that we are. So it's it's possible that you might be one of the first people like to notice, like, hey, I think something might be happening here. So I think there's just all kinds of room for grace all over. Um but I think you're absolutely right. More compassion and all that kind of thing. What would you tell teachers who are frustrated that they're teaching students that they're not told that there's a learning difference or a diagnosis or even a suspicion of a diagnosis? What would your words of encouragement be to them?

SPEAKER_00: 26:33

So I would first caution, I would say be very careful how you approach any any sort of interaction with the parent. Um it is very frustrating when we don't have all the information. Um I I have made mistakes with students because I didn't know um something. And um the way that I would run a class of children when they are all um assumed to be neurotypical is different than if I know one is very high need autism or one has um a very significant high need um ADHD or ADHD situation. Um if I'm aware of it ahead of time, I can plan a little better. Um, but if I if I'm not, I make mistakes. Um and then I feel terrible. So I I understand the frustration, and on many levels I understand the frustration with just private lessons of like, if I if you just had a diagnosis, if you just told me maybe I could do something different, um, there are a couple of things. One, um, do they do you need to have a conversation with them in which you listen, where you ask questions and you listen rather than just I think your kid has autism. I think your kid has dyslexia. Yes. Um because again, very short time once a week or twice a week that we see the kid. Um but i is it even necessary to have that conversation? Um if it is, then it it needs to be very delicate. You do not want to end your career in one conversation. Um but also you don't want to damage a relationship in one conversation. Right. Um so but it's it's helpful to ask questions and to um just listen of like, hey, we've been having some issues with focus pretty consistently. Um do you think maybe you could sit in and just kind of observe what's going on? Or like, hey, um he is doing so great and he's working so hard, but um we are having an issue with reading, um very consistent issue with reading. And I was just wondering if um there's anything else going on, if he is if he is really tired from school, maybe if um if he is not enjoying reading at school as well, um things, things like that. But even that I'd be very cautious. Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 28:56

Um So asking questions to learn, not saying, hey, your child has XYZ. Like asking to learn, not talking to provide a judgment.

SPEAKER_00: 29:08

Yes, no assumptions. We try not to make assumptions.

SPEAKER_01: 29:12

Yes. And then uh um there's a good saying about assumptions and something it can make out of UH. It can. And it does, it do be like that.

SPEAKER_00: 29:21

It does be like that. Um the other the other thing I would say is before you even have a conversation, consider is it worth it? Do you need to have any kind of um conversation with the parent? Can you just adjust what you are doing? Um, can you adjust your pedagogy? Can you adjust your teaching to accommodate the student better? Um because ultimately if they have dyslexia, you are not going to fix them.

SPEAKER_01: 29:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 29:51

So I if I if I am um able to tell a parent, like I think that this is what's happening, and then they go through the diagnosis process and they get the diagnosis, great. Um, but I will not do that because I'm not qualified to do that. And um I also uh I see them for so little. It seems huge because it's the only interaction I have with them. But can I just change what I'm doing a little bit um and have it benefit them?

SPEAKER_01: 30:23

Yes. Absolutely. I've had that conversation with um so many parents of neurodivergent students, just to kind of get to know them on a personal basis, but also just to kind of do informal research, like, hey, what do you think about this topic? And it is consistently been um, if there's an issue, I want to know about it, but please ask it because you care about my child, not just because what you're doing isn't working and you're unwilling to change.

unknown: 30:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 30:56

That's all for today's episode. I just want to thank Dr. Olivia again for taking time out of her very busy schedule to help us better understand dyslexia and have more compassion and understanding for our students with dyslexia as well as their parents. And this is again just part one. So next time you can look for the conclusion of our conversation on dyslexia, where she'll share lots of wonderful teaching tips that you can instantly take and use for any of your students, whether they are dyslexic or not. She shares wonderful ideas. Thank you so much for taking time to listen. I can't tell you how encouraging it is to see the podcast being downloaded and get messages from people saying they enjoyed it. Thank you also for those of you who are taking time to give it a quick rating and leave a review. That helps us so much just to know that we're on track and you're enjoying it. But it also, weirdly enough, really helps the algorithm. I really hate dealing with algorithms, but in this case, it really does help get the podcast out in front of other people who might enjoy it. So if you haven't left a review, it doesn't take long, just hit subscribe and then leave a short thought letting us know what you enjoyed. Don't forget you can also get in touch with us if you have teaching questions. I'm gonna put our email address and Dr. Olivia's in the description. She has welcomed you to reach out to her if you have any teaching questions about dyslexia. Thank you again for listening and hope you tune in next time.