False Teachers, God’s Vengeance and the Dog’s Vomit // Sermon Conversations

This episode covers the raw warning in 2 Peter 2:13-22 about false teachers infiltrating the church, God’s certain payback for the harm they cause, and the shocking reality of those who taste the gospel but return to sin. We unpack how these teachers carouse in broad daylight, seduce the unstable with greed and adultery, promise freedom while enslaved to depravity, and why leaving the straight path leads to worse destruction than never knowing the way at all.
You’ll see the powerful progression of moral decay, the truth that vengeance belongs to the Lord alone, and the sobering Proverbs Peter uses—a dog returning to its vomit and a washed pig wallowing back in the mud—to show that real transformation only happens when we fully submit to Jesus’ lordship. If you’re studying 2 Peter, wrestling with discernment in the church today, or want to protect the purity of the gospel, this deep dive will sharpen your faith and help you spot the fake by knowing the real Jesus.
Perfect for anyone doing Bible study on false teaching, gospel protection, or Christian leadership.

Website: jasonshepperd.com

Audio Devotionals: startwith7.com

Have Conversations Toward Salvation: goodgodgospel.com

Church Project Network: churchprojectnetwork.com

Good City: goodcity.org

“A Church of House Churches: An Articulated and Applied Ecclesiology”: https://a.co/d/0vgpSjV

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Rethink and Return Podcast. My name is Jason Shepard. Every week we rethink things and return to God's original intention and his design. We generally do two recordings a week. One, we revisit a passage of scripture that thousands of people are studying together in a Sunday gathering or in a house church. And we're just going to dig more deeply into these things, things that we didn't get to talk about enough or want to talk about more that we're wrestling with. And then we do another recording where we're just working out leadership things, being a pastor and ministry or leading stuff, and wrestling with tensions of how we live like that in our world today. So we'd love for you to like this, subscribe to it, share it with other people, enjoy the podcast. We'll see you soon. Hey, thanks for watching the Rethink and Return podcast. I like getting together and talking about the Bible with people. And then sometimes we'll talk about some leadership stuff too. And I love doing that with me and go.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

Always love being here, man. Love riding shotgun with you, bro.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Man, it's been a good journey, dude. It has been. Keep doing it as long as we can. That's right. Who knows how long that is.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

Working our way through the word and Jesus comes back.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

And uh I've I've I've loved you preaching through this series, but I think before we like before we get started, I have to point out that you have a different type of iced tea.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

We're gonna start editing this out.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

This matters to people.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Well, it doesn't matter that much to me. All right, yeah. Free birds for lunch today.

SPEAKER_03 1:28

And it's with my son Logan. Where is the this on the T scale for you?

SPEAKER_02 1:33

It's not on a scale.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

It's just utilitarian.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

So yeah, it's it's liquid.

SPEAKER_03 1:38

What is cold brew tea? Do you have any idea what that means?

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Peter chapter 2, continuing today in verse 13. We are we are, thank God.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Somebody's gonna want to know.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Well, I want to they will be paid back with harm for the thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

So Peter, man, yes, this is this dude. He keeps he's doubling down on the false teacher thing. Like it's it's just escalating.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

I mean, we we can't we can't miss this.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

Right.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

This dude's last words, yeah, three chapters, yeah, the whole second chapter is significant, harsh, serious about bringing false teaching into the church. Yeah. So the apostle Peter, his last letter, and he knows it's his last words, and he has three chapters, although they weren't divided into chapters then, but there were three flows of thought clearly before we somebody put them in chapters. And the dude spends one-third of that time talking about bad teaching getting into the church. That's right. You know, we'll talk about it in a minute a little bit more, but false teaching isn't, oh, we may disagree on certain theological ideas, like uh, I would say tertiary ideas. That doesn't mean unimportant ideas, but somebody may disagree on uh at what point and how is Jesus going to return. That's that for me isn't a gospel uh it's not a gospel topic. It's not a that's right. And here's what I mean by that. I don't mean that it's not a doctrine, and I don't mean it's unimportant, yeah, but it doesn't change the lordship of Jesus, the salvation of uh by Jesus through grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone. And so when we're talking about bringing doctrine into the church, that's false doctrine that Peter's talking about. We we go back to what we looked at in Galatians that Paul talked about, like protecting the purity of the gospel.

SPEAKER_03 3:44

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

And so we're not talking about here, like I I preached on it the week before, that we use the word, you know, heretic and false teacher too freely. It lets me know that the gospel, when people do that, it lets me know that the gospel isn't the central thing to them. And so for me, if it if it doesn't change, you know, the salvation of Jesus alone by grace alone through faith alone and Christ alone, right? And if it doesn't change that we as his followers submit to his lordship, then you and I can have a conversation and I go, I feel comfortable that we disagree on that. I see biblically where you may be different than me. And you and I, even on some of these issues, we probably have some, you know, I don't know exactly what it would be, but if you you and I start digging down into stuff, we could probably find some edges of things that we're like, uh I respect and see why you believe that. I think differently.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

Yeah, that's right. And I think we have to you have to help people have discernment between, you know, what is a conviction and what is really at stake. Like, I mean, there are some things that people have convictions over that aren't necessarily a command. That's right. Like they are, you know, the some people disagree on the type of the way people are baptized. But it doesn't that doesn't undermine the gospel. And I think this is what we have to help believers to walk in that kind of discernment. Like what this sermon series has helped me do is like I you know, I haven't read Second Peter. By sermon series, you mean book of the Bible. So Book of the Bible study. This journey through the book of the Bible uh has helped me is that the the the the real power of these words is knowing the real thing.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

Like what makes these words, what made these things come alive for me is that it forced me to say, well, I I know the real Jesus. That's right. And if you know the real Jesus, then what he's saying, you're like, oh, I I get it. I get it. These aren't just these aren't just a bunch of words that he's trying to, he's not trying to fill a paper.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

Yeah, I mean he's he and he's not he's not bored. He hasn't lost his mind. It's not like a letter of senility. That's right. You know, like this guy is like he's so passionate about the church, and he knows that if you come in and you start changing the gospel, and then how he he he describes how people are doing it here. It's wild. So he he says in verse 13, the beginning of it, they will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Who's they? Who's he talking about? Because verses one through three, he talked about false teachers. Yeah, verses four through eleven or twelve, he he talked about like angels and demons. Yeah. But now he goes back to they will be paid back with harm. He's not talking about angels and demons being paid back for harm. Right. He's going back to false teachers. Right. The whole chapter is about false teachers, he just takes a break and says, if even he didn't spare the angels when they sinned, right? He's sure not going to spare the false teachers. And now he says, They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Another translation says, they'll be paid back with vengeance. So here are the questions that this verse answers. Right. Like, who will be paid back? The false teachers. Uh who will pay them back? The Lord. How will he pay them back? With harm.

SPEAKER_05 7:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

Who will be paid back? False teachers.

SPEAKER_05 7:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

Who will pay them back? The Lord.

SPEAKER_05 7:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

And how will he pay them back? With harm. Yeah. Like with vengeance, some translations say, so here's what we need to know. God takes very, very seriously. Bringing false teaching into the church. And it's not just from a platform or a microphone. It can be a person sitting next to you in a house church that starts to do, and we'll talk about later, the people they target. It doesn't just have to be. We're not just pointing fingers at people on stages, though. Right. There's a greater accountability with that. But there's still a lot of accountability with me individually influencing other believers or non-believers. But especially here in this context, influencing believers with a false gospel, with diminishing the gospel or diluting it, changing it. Yeah. There will be payback or harm. Who does the paying back? God does. Here, you know, I was speaking with somebody this past week about a principles in the Bible. It's actually a non-believer who was talking about we were having a God conversation.

unknown 8:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

I've had a lot of good conversations. We're having a God conversation. And this person's like, you know, my God is this, your God is Jesus, other people's God is Allah, whatever. And so anyway, that's where this person is in their in their God stuff. And so, but when we're having a God conversation, I said, you know, God, God works through principles in in scripture. And um, we talked about his different principles. One of the principles God works through is vengeance. And when it comes to the principle of vengeance, uh, here's what God says about vengeance. He said, That's mine. I'll repay. Vengeance is mine, I will repay. That's why I think it's very important for each one of us to understand the principle of vengeance. And when we step into a principle of repaying people harm for the harm they've done, we're stepping into God's work, and He's been very clear to tell us, you don't do that. I know people who step into paying harm back for the harm they've received, perceived harm or real harm. Right. And I have been tempted. I'm still tempted, tempted now. But if if we pay people harm back for the harm they've done, we're we're one, I think we're diminishing the the repayment they would get from the Lord because he says, I'll take care of that. But then, like, oh, you wanted to take care of that? Okay. I mean, you're limited in power, you're also limited in your vengeance. Yeah. And it doesn't work well. Whenever God does this repayment, however, he balances it with his massive grace, also with his repayment and vengeance, however, he balances it, it'll be done right. When we do it, it it and it and when God when God repays, it doesn't change his nature.

SPEAKER_03 9:56

When we repay, it affects our nature. It does. We become a different person.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

And so I just think whenever we see a phrase like this, we need to sort of pull the string a little bit on it and go, what what else is in there? And this is this is a principle of repayment, a principle of vengeance. And God says, I do, I do that.

SPEAKER_05 10:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

I'm I'm the parent here. Yeah. I do this, I did the disciplining. Brothers and sisters, you don't discipline each other. The Lord, I will discipline you. As far as this vengeance goes, right? Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord. And so we need to be very careful. And I have to remind myself of that at times. And I watch other people do it, and it it affects your nature. Who will be paid back? False teachers. Who pays them back? God will. How will he pay them back? With vengeance. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:49

Yep. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

Intense stuff, man.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

That is intense. And I like I, you know, you said yesterday that sometimes we we have to intentionally remind ourselves to stay out of trying to play God in those.

unknown 11:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:05

You know, in my time on the road, I did a lot of singles measure. I met a lot of singles that all they want to do is get even with their ex. Oh wow. That was the whole thing. Yeah. You know, what and whatever way that was. And you're right, it it turned them into somebody that they weren't supposed to be.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 11:22

You know, so what I mean, uh how how do how does someone restrain themselves from veering into what is clearly God's territory of vengeance?

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Well, I mean, all of this is our ongoing sanctification with God teaching you, hey, that's mine, that's mine, that's mine, that's mine. Yeah, I mean, we just keep submitting everything to the Lord, right? That's what we're doing. We're following Him. So we're submitting our I mean, it it's not like vengeance is our only natural urge.

SPEAKER_05 11:48

Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

We got a lot of plenty of natural urges from overeating or over-drinking to you know sexual urges to uh greed. I mean, there's so many urges that we just have to lay down before the Lord. Yeah. And when it comes to the idea of vengeance, we just need to identify it. Oh, this is yeah, this is vengeance.

SPEAKER_05 12:07

Really good.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

Or, you know, this is gluttony, yeah, or this is greed, or this is lust. But when it comes to this is vengeance, we need to identify that and go, just like with every other urge, every other fleshly calling, we got to go, I have to take this and put it in submission to the Lord. When it comes to vengeance, and like I mean, I opened a letter today, a very encouraging letter, and um it was from someone in our body, and I I love, you know, people are so so kind, overwhelmingly. 99.8% of people are very kind. And it it was talking about how this person's been encouraged here by the trial they've walked through. And um, it just mentioned like uh how they had to hold themselves back a little bit from vengeance, from the pain they've been through. Everybody's dealing with it. Yeah, all of us have been hurt by people, and we've all hurt other people. Yeah, but some of us have been hurt disproportionately, but every one of us has hurt somebody. We've hurt some people, yeah. That's right. But uh but that doesn't mean that it's been equal for for others, and there are people who would be listening to this who are like, I know I've hurt people, but others have also very significantly hurt me. And we just have to go, God is promising here, yeah, that he sees it and he takes this stuff seriously, and he's gonna take care of it. Yeah, and we've got to trust him with it.

SPEAKER_03 13:32

Yeah. And so it may not come in our timetable. Like we want it.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

It won't.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

Like I, you know, when he we talk about this, the the narrative that is we're all shaped by are all these like these movies where it's all about vengeance. You know, like that's that's all. Yeah, we like it. We like it. We like when the guy, you know, fights is the underdog and he he blasts his way out of the corner and you know, or he gets the bad guys, and uh but uh but it it doesn't work that way as a follower of Christ. Like you have to release and let God do it, but you also have to remember he's gonna do it in his timetable. Yeah, like it may be later than you think, it may be slower than you think. Like you we have to relax and I think the other thing that's helped me to do was to like this also knowing that God takes does the business of vengeance means that we don't have to be heresy hunters. Right? And when you put this with the false teaching thing, like it's not our role to go out and try to, you know, hunt down people and then you know, get them kicked out of a building or get them kicked off of a platform, right? I mean, doesn't that keep us out?

SPEAKER_02 14:41

I struggle, I struggle with that to to a degree because I do not think Peter and Paul, as they're writing about things like this, would have just sat idly by. I mean, they did it if it was in if it was in their ability within their local body, you know, they went after it and addressed it. And I do think that's important. Um, but I I do think it's also dangerous for us to step into the seat of sovereignty over that.

SPEAKER_03 15:11

Right. Become self-appointed.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

Well, to think that my job is to go find it everywhere. Because I I will say this I think everywhere there's false teaching, there are probably also true believers. And their responsibility too would be oh, we need to compare what you said to the word. Well, that that's changing the gospel. I mean, we could probably list sitting here and we won't, but we could list the names of people that we know, famous or not famous, but names of people we know who their gospel changed.

SPEAKER_04 15:45

Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Their gospel changed. Not I was wearing a suit and now I'm not. Right, they're gonna have the orchestra and now we have a band. Right. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking their gospel changed. Yeah. And um, and you know, whatever local body of believers they were in either had to resist that or rebuke that, but I wasn't going driving over there, calling over there, doing that, you know what I'm saying? Right, that's right. So I I but I care about it, yeah. And I think there is this fine line, but I do think when people say, my job is to be whatever you just said, what were a heresy hunter. Yeah, I mean, I I think um, I think our job is to go build build into a local body, man. You know, go love people, go forgive people, yeah, go be faithful to people, yeah, go um serve people, go help the immature, grow in their faith, you know, go grow in the faith yourself. Um teach, use your gifts in the body, like, you know, disciple people, whatever, give like all these beautiful things we can do in our local body. Yeah, I will generally say that when when I find that people take themselves into some ministry, uh uh whatever it is out there in the whatever exosphere, like I I I find that they're they're not really prioritizing their their local body. Yeah. Wow. And you know, submission to leadership, their engagement and serving in leadership, whatever. And so, yeah, I think we can move on. But I think here we we we can't and shouldn't move past principles of vengeance, and the principle of vengeance is that's it's God's.

SPEAKER_04 17:21

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

So um here's what it goes on to say about these people. Their idea of pleasures to carouse in broad daylight, their blots and blemishes, reveling in pleasures while they feast with you. Their eyes are full of adultery, they never stop sinning, they seduce the unstable, they're experts in greed. Goodness gracious. Like these people, man, he's like, I mean, he's not using bad words here, he's just short of it. Yeah, yeah, like he's saying, he's saying the stuff about them. And the thing is, man, this is how it makes them feel when somebody changes the gospel. And again, the things that we get upset about, you know, Paul Paul was great to give us Romans 14, where he's like, look, we have disputable matters.

SPEAKER_04 18:07

Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

I would I'm so grateful that the greatest theologian, Paul, um, he even Peter said about Paul, Paul writes some stuff that's hard for us to understand. That's what Peter said about Paul. Right.

SPEAKER_05 18:20

Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

And so this great theologian Paul wrote Romans 14 and said, There are gonna be some matters that are he called them disputable. Other people call them gray at times, but they're disputable matters, meaning Paul, Paul was okay with the dispute because he even said, Some of you will say this day is sacred, some will say this. Yeah, some of you will say, I can't eat this meat because it was sold in the market uh by people who bought it from the people at the temple, and the temple was not to God. And so, you know, that's why like I remember this man in the church uh where I grew up, like he wouldn't go to a restaurant where they served alcohol in that restaurant. And I'm like, but he lived in Tyler, so that was not a problem because we were a dry county, you know. But I'm like, here he would have had to go to Taco Bell, and you can't go to a restaurant, but I'm like, I didn't share that same conviction of his, but he did, and that's what Paul has in Romans 14. We have disputable matters here. This is not about that, right? And this is not about a Christian who's not uh living exactly like you want him to, or whatever. This is about intentional, egregious, subversive, destroying the gospel in a local body. Right. And and he said, one, these people, you look at their fleshly lifestyle, and almost all of his words are about sexual sins. Yeah. Like, and and it's not talking about here, here's what he says. Here's the difference. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. Yeah now, these are people, here's what's happened. It's not somebody who like, I struggled with uh sexual temptation today or whatever. These people are carousing in broad daylight. Like they have taken a sin that used to be, like I said yesterday.

SPEAKER_03 20:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

Here's the progression of moral decay in a society. Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

Essentially four four steps. That's right. I wrote this down. I wanted to add it.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

It's I start individually hiding my sin. I mean, everybody's done it, but some people continue living in it without repentance. And then what they do is they go to the next step and they gather with others who are also hiding that sin. That's the next step of social moral decay, societal moral decay. Yeah. Individuals hiding their sin.

unknown 20:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

Not surprising. Right. Getting together with other people who are also hiding the sins, not surprising. Then these people get courage. Yeah. They get affirmation from one another, as Romans 1 says we will. That's right. Like we start, it says we don't only do these things, we approve of others who are doing them as well. That's right. And then Paul was like, when it comes to teaching, it's going to be the same progression. You're going to, they're going to get people around them who approve of them. So doing it on my own in the dark, getting with other people hiding it. Now we've all affirmed each other enough. We're going to bring it into the broad daylight.

SPEAKER_05 21:19

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

And now you're having culture where what used to be hidden and heinous is now we're proud of this sin. Yeah. And then the goal is now all of you must affirm my sin, even if you don't join in it with me. That's social moral decay. And we're, we're, we're, we're between steps three and four here.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

I mean, the things that were heinous 40, 50, 60 years ago are now carousing in broad daylight. And so these teachers were they were living just like the world. They were living sexually just like the world. They were reveling in pleasures. Yeah. And it says. While they feast with you. Yeah. My life out here is exactly like the world, but inside the church, I'm going to try to be with you, live with you in the church, and now I'm going to bring all that in here. That's what Peter's talking about.

SPEAKER_03 22:14

I mean, like I wrote all this down when you were talking, because I thought that that process of societal decay, and then I think it's also when you think about the churches that have gotten caught up in that slide.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

And denominations.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

And denominations that have lowered the moral bar and thought, oh, we're going to be so accepting and approving that's going to make our church grow.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

And it's done the exact opposite.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

It's killed the body. It's killed the body, but even God forbid that church does grow, which they usually don't. Right. I mean, statistically, when a church capitulates to culture, it is beginning to die. Yeah. I mean, that that is true. Right. That is true. Now there are some present exceptions that we see and watch with horror and wonder, well, how are they continuing to grow? But I digress a little on that. But yeah, when when churches do make that slide, they generally start to die. Good.

unknown 23:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

Good.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

I'm glad. Right, good. Yeah. They take themselves out. And the other thing I thought about is that with most false religions, like the all this emphasis on the immorality, most false religions in some way have a way of elevating immoral immoral practices within their own system. Well, I mean, you know, like uh uh, you know, uh some religions uh uh uh you know uh allow multiple wives.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

You know, some religions uh as part of their practice, there's sexual, there's immorality as part of their practice. And it seems like that when you think about false teachers uh in the societal decay, that when you venture out into other religions, yeah, in some way that there's there's m immoral compromise, there's sexual compromise.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Biblical morality has been adjusted in that in that belief system. Yeah, yeah. And uh, I mean, well, they were dealing with it, they had temple prostitutes where honey, I'm going to lunch into the temple, gonna pay my temple tax and have sex with a prostitute to give worship to whatever. I mean, and they yeah, I mean, these people were getting that psycho, man. And here and it says this in it in the end of verse 14, or in verse 14, they seduce the unstable. Yeah. So here's what Peter really hated. That and he says later, in a couple of verses later, that they're they're gonna go after the new believers. So they're going after unstable and new. New are also unstable, but you also have people who are unstable who are not new. Yeah. Like you have people who, you know, when I was eight, I became a follower of Jesus Christ, which is my story, but then they they never they never grew. They never grew in their knowledge of Jesus, they never continued to submit their life to the Lord, they never lived in submission to his lordship. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_05 25:10

All these things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

And so uh they're unstable. They don't know the word, they don't have a foundation. And so there are there are a lot of Christians because we we had decades in the church where people weren't getting taught doctrine. Yeah. You know, we had decades where like that's right, you'd go, you'd go to church on a Sunday and it would be for a seeker, yeah. And there was nothing, there was nothing solid taught. Wow. And so the church for for decades went through this anemic theological uh preparation. And so people didn't know the word, they didn't need the word when they gathered as a body. Nobody was really teaching the word to them. And so, I mean, you know that you'd be on the road and you'd preach, people would be like, You're the Bible guy because you preach from the Bible.

SPEAKER_03 26:04

It was sad because that was, you know, most speakers always had some sort of salacious hook, some crazy story or something they grew up in out of. And mine was people are like, We like it because when you come here, you you use the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

Imagine.

SPEAKER_03 26:17

Right? You exegete scripture, and I was doing that for students. They didn't know that's what I was doing, but that's what I was just taking verses and walking through them in a relevant way. And people would recognize that and say, We like having you come to our church. Yeah, because you use the Bible when you're here.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

Well, thank God, you know, we we do that here. That's right. And and people learn how to teach themselves the word and we teach the word. But the people who are unstable, I I just think it's a warning to uh, you know, somebody that I'm personally right now walking through them with their relationship with the Lord, growing in their faith. I'm having to help this person understand you're you're more unstable than you realize. Yeah. And so you have real passion of faith, but your foundation for making decisions, yeah, for building a future on it's still not, it's still not developed. Yeah. And so we have to help you get a broader, firmer foundation of faith. Yeah, you have to understand the word differently and more deeply than you do right now. And so I you're in a dangerous position when you're unstable, meaning I'm a believer, but I I'm not I'm I'm not formed.

SPEAKER_05 27:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

And so, I mean, the concrete hasn't really hardened. Yeah. And so these that's well, that's where Satan himself will use a false teacher to come in and change how you feel about God. And so it goes on to verse 15. These people they left the straight way. And I said yesterday, God has every right to say what is right and wrong. And that that statement that I just made is a flashpoint. Like, yeah, it's a cultural flashpoint, and it's a per it's a personal flash point, too, that we have to answer for ourselves. Does God have every right to say what is right or wrong in my life? Yeah. Like, have I given him that right? Have I submitted that right to him? Or do I still do I still hold that right in my life? God, you you get to decide what's right and wrong. I mean, he's already told us in his word what's right and what's wrong. And you know, yesterday I'm like, let's set this theological premise aside. Right. And let's just go to the philosophical premise of who determines what is right and wrong. Like he he said they're here, they've left the straight way or the right way, the correct way. Like, if if somebody else decides who is right and wrong, who who is that?

SPEAKER_03 28:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

I mean, there's eight and a half billion people.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Right. You talked about when individuals decide they're they're gonna decide what's if anybody but God does it then land on every individual decides what is right.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

And like, if if we if we just honestly if somebody who's like God doesn't decide what's right for me, I'm like, okay, then do we all, do you decide what's right for you and me for me? Is this right completely relevant for every individual? Do we have the autonomy to determine what is right and wrong? And if so, if we just break that down a minute, it leads to mad chaos in the world. Yeah. And then and there's no basis for order, there's no basis for law, there's no basis for judgment, because we have all determined what was right in our own eyes, which by the way, scripture says that about people in the Old Testament before their judgment, each one determined what was right in their own eyes. And so if it's not an individual who does it, then is it a culture? Is it a government? There's some nasty governments out there. Yeah. I mean, is it uh is it like a moment in time? And is that moment in time true for this people group, but not this people group? I mean, it really breaks down really quickly. Either God determines what is right, yeah, or what else does. And so when Peter here says they've left the straight way, we need to realize there is a way that we're called to walk. Scripture talks about that way a lot. It calls it a path, and it calls it a way. Like this is the way that you should walk in. And so it's all throughout scripture: Old Testament, New Testament, beautiful through the Psalms, beautiful through the stories. Like this is the way, walk in it.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

Right. Well, I mean, I I think this is a you know a call for every person to, even Christians, to examine themselves of what they're how they're deciding what is right.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 30:39

You still have people that love Jesus go, hey, I'm gonna do what's right for me.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 30:44

You know, and it is it's a discipleship issue and a lordship issue. I'm gonna in other words, I'm gonna I'm gonna let God define right regardless of what it costs me. I'm gonna let Him say this is what's right, and I'm gonna I'm gonna align my life with that. That's right, regardless of the cost, even if it cuts into my comfort and my own whatever I'm doing, my calendar and my comfort. Yeah. And I'm I'm I'm gonna do what God defines is right. Because you said, you know, there's chaos if individuals do it, if cultures do it, if governments do it.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:16

I mean, you can just logically think about the fallout of that. And you know, when you said we don't we don't create our own way.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

Jesus is the way.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Jesus is the way. I mean, he did say, follow me.

SPEAKER_03 31:29

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 31:30

That's right. And so John 12, 26, Jesus said, Whoever serves me must follow me. John 14, 6, I am the way. And I I like to say, we don't just follow the ways of Jesus, we follow Jesus as the way.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

We do follow the ways of Jesus, but you can actually follow some of the ways of Jesus without following Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 31:50

That's right. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 31:51

And so we we must say both. We must say, because if we say we follow Jesus as the way, but we don't follow his ways, Jesus would say, What? Yeah, why would you call me Lord, Lord, and not do what I say?

SPEAKER_05 32:05

Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:05

And so, like, both have to be true. We follow the ways of Jesus and we follow Jesus as the way. And so we are not making our own way, we're followers. Yeah. I don't like to follow in most things in life, it goes against my nature. When it comes to Jesus, what he's taught us, we are followers. Yeah. And so we'll go on, verse 19. These people, they promise freedom. But they themselves are slaves of depravity. So they're promising freedom. What they're doing is they're creating new definitions and new ways for freedom. I I think the way that Peter here is trying to say is um, hey, look, you're gonna be a slave to something. Here's how Paul said it in Romans 6.16. Don't you know that when you offer yourself to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, whether you're slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness. So, and then he goes on two verses later, Romans 6.18, you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. So we're either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

You said you're a slave to whatever you obey. That's right. And then you did that quote that that I know we grew up with in student ministry.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

But I think it's worth repeating.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

Yeah, I wish I knew. I wish I knew who originally said it. I I've read it somewhere. Like there was a there was like a uh an originator of this before it got real contemporary with us. It was it was great.

SPEAKER_03 33:47

I knew about it in the old Billy Beecham uh design. Right?

SPEAKER_02 33:51

But I think they got it from somewhere. They probably did. Yeah, but I mean I'm glad they brought it in. They they but uh where I read the original thing at some point, I was sure it was like a for me, it was an austere uh you know theologian whose name I hadn't heard before. Right. But it was sin will take you farther than you want to go, it'll make you stay longer than you want to pay, and it'll make you pay more than you want to pay. That's right. And farther than you want to go, longer than you want to stay, costs you more than you want to pay. And you know, I mean, I I think sometimes some things become so repetitive that they lose their power, but this this is completely true. Yeah, like if if you become a slave to sin, like Paul said here in that verse I quoted, it's gonna lead to death. Like it's gonna destroy things in your life. Yeah, or you can be a slave to obedience, that's right, and that leads to righteousness. Yeah. So it's just better to go, Jesus, I'll follow your way. Yeah. I mean, if you want to go follow your own way, he'll let you. Uh but he doesn't want you to because it's not it's not best.

SPEAKER_03 34:57

Yeah. Well, scripture says there is a way that seems right to man, but whose end is destruction.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Right.

SPEAKER_03 35:03

Like it seems like, oh, this is the I'm gonna go the easy way, the convenient way, and it leads you right into a dead end. That's right every time, you know. And like you said, all these promises of the path like Proverbs 3, 5, and 6, and he will make your path straight. That's right. Is you you trust in him to lean your own understanding and all in all your ways, acknowledge him, and he will make your path straight. I mean, this is the you know, the call to walk in the way with Jesus as the way of our life. Yeah. You know, I thought that I mean I thought that was powerful.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

Well, it is powerful, and the the the verse is telling us here if you don't do that, you know, I mean you're gonna be enticed into that because people are gonna promise you you're more free out here. But Peter's trying to tell you, don't, it's you're not, you're not more free out there. And the idea here is they're saying, hey, look, this is how it's presented today from teachers. It is, hey man, God loves you and God wants you to be happy. Yeah, and there's no way he would have given you those desires if he didn't want you to fulfill them. Right. So don't resist the good that God has offered you and the desires that he placed in your heart. Enjoy what he's given you because God is good and that's what he does. Like this is it, he it's saying here, they promise you freedom.

SPEAKER_05 36:22

Yeah. That's so subtle, man.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

And we need to be alert to that. And then it gets into some wild theological, potentially theological stuff. If they've escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the beginning of verse 20. Yeah. He does say if there, which I do like, and that gets into things later. If they have, if they've escaped the corruption, which by the way, we do see just such a beautiful expression of God's grace here. Escaped corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. You've escaped corruption of the world. And how did you do that? By knowing Jesus. Yeah. By knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus. Yeah. And so, like, one of the great gifts that comes along with our salvation is man, you get to escape the corruption of the world. Yeah. That's why Peter's like, if you go back, right, why would you go back? Yeah. You got you were you were set free from that. Yeah. So if you've been escaped the corruption of the world, and then he says in verse 20, the end of verse 20, and again become entangled, you're worse off than at the beginning.

SPEAKER_05 37:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

It would have been better for you to not have known the way righteousness than to know it, and then to turn your back on it. That's that's that's heavy.

SPEAKER_03 37:37

Yeah, that's right. Well, I mean, this is the warning of Hebrews. Like having tasted of the salvation, the writer says, Why would you want to go back to this old system? That's right. Like this, you know. This is I like one of the things I love about these guys, uh, Paul and Peter and all of them, is that they all saw this coming. That's right. You know, I mean, Paul was smart enough to go, I got to get on this. I got to start writing about these false teachers. Peter was in his this last dying breath was saying, listen, don't go down that road. I'm telling you, these people are gonna try to infiltrate the church and talk you into some other way, and you'll be worse off if you go having tasted of the Lord and then ended up there. Like this reminded me of there's a there's a I won't say it was, but there's a at one time a famous TV evangelist and who was who is still to this day off the rails, like is lost his way. But I read his biography, and this guy had a real encounter with the Lord, like he had a real salvation experience. But when you read his biography and you look at where he ended up, yeah, you have to go, man, this guy is is worse off. I mean, this is what he's talking about. Yeah, he went down this path of false teaching and leading and and teaching it to other people, yeah, and is in a worse place than he would if he just stayed out of it.

SPEAKER_02 39:05

Well, and the tension is the the real question is can somebody lose what they once received by grace, yeah. And um when we look at all of scripture together, you know, we we have this here in 2 Peter and we have the verse in Hebrews that make people go, okay, this leads me to ask the question can I lose what God graciously gave me? Yeah. But then we have all this preponderance of evidence in scripture that tells us what happened when we received salvation.

SPEAKER_05 39:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:39

We have first how we receive salvation, Ephesians 2, 8.9, it's by grace you've been saved through faith. It's not of yourselves, it's a gift of God, not by your works, or your your own goodness can be included in that, yeah, so that no one can boast. So we received it by grace alone. I mean, we didn't earn it, we didn't do good enough, we didn't get smart enough, we didn't get wise enough, we didn't we didn't stop doing enough bad and do enough good. Right. We got it by grace. So we got our salvation by grace. When when we got our salvation, the Bible says that he put his spirit into our hearts. Yeah. He put his spirit into our hearts. I mean, that's a big deal. And then the Bible says that he sealed us with that spirit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:25

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

And then it says that that sealing with the spirit is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance. And then it says that deposit is kept in heaven for us. Yeah. And then Jesus said, No one can take you from my hand. Then he said, I'm adopting you. You were a creation, now you're a child, I'm adopting you. And when you're adopted, I'm gonna change your name. Yeah. And I'm gonna write your name in my book, and I'm gonna also write it on my hand. Yeah. And so all these other things and more. Yeah. All these other things have happened when we received salvation by grace. So, what do we do with this verse? Well, I would say a couple things. Number one, we we thank God for this overwhelming salvation and all that came along with it. We just remember, when we have a question, let's go back to what the gospel is teaching us and just thank Him for it. Number one. Number two, we should take very seriously our salvation.

SPEAKER_04 41:24

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 41:25

Like, and part of that is our rescue from the corruption of the world. Like we it's a gift that we escape the corruption of the world. Yeah. So we don't do it with pride, but only with gratitude and humility, but seriousness. We escape that corruption. And and then I think we need to see what Peter was saying here. If all this is true, what was he saying? And he he he he clean he cleans it up, I think, pretty well in verse 22.

SPEAKER_05 41:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

Of them the proverbs are true. A dog returns to its vomit, and a sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud. Like uh he used dog and pig hair. And when he used dog, it wasn't the way that we see dogs. Right. Like last year, they sold more dog strollers in Japan than people strollers. Wow. Yeah, I mean, not a whole lot of procreation going on there.

SPEAKER_03 42:21

No, that's a fun fact.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

That's a fun fact, and so like people are like, you know, leaving things to their dogs and their wills, man. Yeah. Psycho. And so I'm sorry if you're listening to this and you do that, I called it psycho, but I think it's psycho, man.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

If you refer to your dogs as your children, also psycho.

unknown 42:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

Well, we're talking about dogs because Peter here is talking about a dog.

SPEAKER_03 42:46

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

And he wasn't talking about a dog in the way that we talk about our cute pets.

SPEAKER_03 42:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:52

Like he says here, a dog which not pets then.

SPEAKER_03 42:56

Not like this. Yeah, not yeah. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 42:59

They weren't regarded in the way that we are regarding them in the West today.

SPEAKER_03 43:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

I mean, go to some countries with me, and there are dogs that I think were probably the picture that Peter was picking when he said this here. Yeah. Like nasty, mangy street dog, get away from me. We don't have a pet. We're not taking care of that.

SPEAKER_05 43:20

Right.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

That kind of a dog returns to its vomit. And by the way, clean dogs or mangy dogs are all doing the same thing. Right. And that's what he's saying here. A dog returns to his vomit. And then he said, a sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud. Wow. So he's like, no matter what, it's still a sow. It's still a dog. I mean, it's still a pig.

SPEAKER_05 43:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

I got some random printer going off over there. I don't know what's going on. It's still a pig. Like you couldn't take the pig out of the pig.

SPEAKER_05 43:55

Right.

SPEAKER_02 43:55

The nature the nature never changed. And so You looked better for a little bit, but your nature never changed. And here's what Peter's saying here, I believe. You got under this umbrella of Christianity. You you heard it, you tasted it, you got close enough to taste and smell it and touch it. And you started living in it for a little while. You started following the customs and getting the language and getting the teachings and living in the community, but your nature never changed. Right. And when it came down to it, you went back to the mud and you went back to the vomit. That's why, you know, 1 John says they went out, 1 John 2.19, they went up from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us, but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. And so I do believe Peter here is saying the nature never changed, man. And here's why he said you're worse off. Because you got into this thing, but it didn't have enough power to change your nature.

SPEAKER_05 44:58

Right.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

And so when you go back, you're going to be like, I already tried the Christianity thing, it didn't work for me.

SPEAKER_05 45:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:03

That's because your nature didn't change. You never submitted your will to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. You just mentally ascended to this idea, but your will never came under submission to his will. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 45:16

Well, you uh you said yesterday, you know, you you followed in your mind, but your your will never followed. That's right. Right? Like you agreed to it. This is where a lot of people, oh, I I agree with all this stuff, but they never really accepted it or adopted it as their own. It didn't become personal. Like when you said that, it made me think of when Jesus talked about talks about judgment day, he says, Many on that day will say, Lord, Lord, did we not say all these things and do all these great things? And you'll say, I never knew you. Like you knew me with your mind, but yeah, I know you through your heart. I never knew your heart.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

Yeah. Yeah. Sad and scary. And yeah, and I and I don't I don't know that the intention of that sh is to scare us. Maybe though. I mean, Jesus said that it's super serious. But I do hear believe that Peter's trying to let us know. There are people who came close to this and looked like it. Yeah. Um but their nature never changed and they went away. And now they're like, Christianity's not for me. I tried it.

SPEAKER_05 46:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

And it wasn't that powerful. It's not. The rules aren't powerful, the language isn't powerful, the customs aren't powerful. What's powerful is when I believe, like John one says, I believe and I receive. I fully believe in this and I receive it. You believe in it because man, I am, I know that I am broken and I need some rescue. Yeah. And I am beyond thinking that I can do it myself.

SPEAKER_05 46:39

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

And so I'm not trying to look like this or act like I'm just in desperate need of a rescue.

SPEAKER_04 46:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

From the grace of God Himself. I believe in you and I receive you, Jesus. There's no other way to be saved. He sends a spirit into our spirit, and that's where life transformation begins. And Peter's saying, these people didn't get there, and they went back, and now they're worse off. Yeah.

unknown 47:02

N.

SPEAKER_02 47:02

T. Wright, oh, the quote is included in our notes from Trace. Uh NT Wright said, There is a particular sorrow, a kind of ironic horror about people who have come close enough to Christian faith and life to discover the way of genuine holiness, but who then decide it's too hard and head off in the opposite direction. And for such, Peter chooses a harsh old proverb call a spade a spade. Don't disguise the nasty reality with fine words. What's going on here is like a dog being sick in the street and then coming back to eat it all up again. Disgusting? Yes, precisely. That's why Peter says it. Time for a reality check, is what N.T. Wright said. Strong. So yeah, I mean the thing is though, we are faced with the reality of all these people who grew up in church. Yeah. And then they walk away and they're living way away from the Lord. And we're like, what happened, man? Yeah. What happened? And were they, did they lose their salvation? No, they their will were never connected to the will of God. Their spirit never submitted to the spirit of God. And so, yeah, they had your answers in Sunday school, but it never got from here to here. Their nature never changed. I think that's what Peter's saying.

SPEAKER_03 48:19

I do too. I and I think that's why he ends this section with that by like yesterday when you said a dog is doing what it's what's in its nature. Like that's his point that the sow is doing what you like. You can put lipstick on it, you can dress it up and put a funny sweater on your dog, put a Christian t-shirt on it, but it's still a dog. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's gonna do what a dog does. Yeah, yeah. And I thought it was interesting. I thought we didn't really touch on it, but you got these two animals that are doing what's in their nature, and then you had him reference Balaam's donkey who took on the nature and you know, and spoke out of the nature of the Lord to this guy. Yeah, that's wild, isn't it? You got these two these two animal references, you know. I just thought that was so interesting.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

Yeah, it is interesting. Yeah, I mean, Peter mentions you're right, three different animals here. And yeah, yeah, yesterday when we talked about that with a donkey, like uh it's like the donkey had logic and reason that the human being didn't right. Like Balaam lost, he he lost it so much that even a donkey recognized it.

SPEAKER_03 49:27

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 49:27

And God spoke logic and reason and spiritual truth through an animal because a human being had lost it.

SPEAKER_03 49:36

Yeah. I mean, there's a really crass way to say that, but I won't say it.

SPEAKER_02 49:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:40

You know, no, no, but that that is like, you know, God can use a donkey. God can, you know, can change the nature and use the nature of a donkey and speak through it.

SPEAKER_02 49:52

Yeah, well, I mean, it gives hope to all of us that he can speak through us. But I think, you know, for me, the the point of that, because it didn't seem like I don't think he did that anywhere else. Right. I don't see that anywhere else in scripture. I mean, taking we take some things in scripture that are superlative and we make them normative. Right. I don't think that I mean like when I got baptized, the spirit of God did not descend upon me like a dove. When I was born, the angels didn't gather in a field and sink. Right. You know what I'm saying? Sure. And Balaam Stonkey is not for people to go, I know what my dog is saying to me. That's right. You know what I'm saying? Like that isn't that's not meant to be normal.

SPEAKER_03 50:31

That's not, yeah, that's right. We're not gonna create a doctrine out of this Old Testament narrative.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

But I think the thing that is wild about that is that when a human being has less moral conscience than an animal, yeah. We we put ourselves underneath the animal kingdom. Like, you know, scripture says that God's made us a little lower than the angels. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:55

And that, and then we have dominion over the animal kingdom.

SPEAKER_05 50:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

But in this Balaam's thing, it's a picture of we he put himself when he left the way, which is what Peter was saying here, Balaam left the way.

SPEAKER_04 51:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:07

When we leave the way, we're reducing ourselves the animal kingdom.

SPEAKER_03 51:13

Wild.

SPEAKER_02 51:13

It's like animals have more of a moral nature than we do at times. And this is what happened with Balaam's donkey to just reveal, man, you your your donkey, you know, your donkey has more uh fortitude, spiritual fortitude, and conviction than you do. Yeah. Crazy. All right. Well, I'm honestly there's no way. I mean, we preached verse by verse through the Bible here, so there's no way we would skip it, but sometimes I'm glad to be done with that. Right.

SPEAKER_03 51:47

You know, but it was worth the journey. Like I know I said this last week. Like some of these verses you'd think, well, I would I probably wouldn't even read this. But when you dive into it and like walk through it, yeah, like you have and like we have today, yeah, that you come out with something, you go, man, it would that was this was worth the journey. Yeah, yeah. Like you might look over and go, I don't understand all what all this means, and it doesn't really apply to me. But the more you know Jesus and know the real thing, the more relevant these words become. You're like, oh, I know, I know the real Jesus, and this is helping me spot the fake thing. That's right. You know, and so I would just say when you get to a difficult text, work through it. Read through it. Don't skip over it.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

Yeah, well said.

SPEAKER_03 52:27

You know, yeah. I'm glad we I'm glad we did it.

SPEAKER_02 52:30

Me too. Thanks for hanging in there with me, and thank you for hanging in there with us, and thanks for caring about the word. If you're watching this, you you love the scriptures, and that's encouraging to me, encouraging to us. So take everything you hear from anybody and compare it to the word and let God do his work through the word in your life, and may we all become more and more stable, less and less unstable, more clearly identifying what the truth is. Hey, I hope you have a great week. If this is helpful for you, uh, here's a few things we ask of you, not a big deal. Like it, subscribe to it, and share it with other people. That's the only way people are finding out about this. But if it's helping you, it may help others. And if it's not helping you, figure out something more fun to do with your time. Hey, you are great. You are loved. Have a great week. See you soon. Thanks for spending time with us today on the Rethink and Return Podcast. Here's all we ask from you. Will you subscribe to this, share this, let other people know about it? That'll help us get the message out. Share this content with other people if it's helpful to you. We're grateful for you. See you soon.