From Possessed to Preacher: Rev. Ethan Logsdon

His father left when he was around 3 years old. By the time he was 8 years old, things began to change in him, in ways he didn't understand at the time. At age 13, a older boy in the church told him if he wanted to make his dreams come true, he would need to do a particular ritual. He did exactly as he was instructed and from that moment on, everything changed. For the next 5 years, Ethan became heavily involved in the occult until God intervined and set him free. Today, Rev. Ethan Logsdon is a powerful anointed preacher of the gospel and God is using him to help set the captives free. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider with your host, Kathy Chastain, Christian-based psychotherapist and Redeemed Backslider. This podcast is dedicated to those who have wandered but are ready to return to the life-changing power of grace and the freedom found in Jesus.

SPEAKER_04: 0:22

Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider. I'm your host, Kathy Chastain. I'm a licensed Christian-based marriage and family therapist, and I'm also a redeemed backslider. With me today via Zoom is Reverend Ethan Logsdon. I recently heard Brother Logsdon on another podcast that he shared his testimony. My pastor's wife actually sent it to me, and I immediately reached out to him, and here he is today. I'm so excited. for him to share his testimony with all of you. So welcome. Thank you so much for saying yes.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04

Absolutely. I'm so honored. And any opportunity I have to glorify God through what he's done in my life, I love the opportunity. So thank you for having me. And I'm an open book, at least I try to be.

SPEAKER_04: 1:21

Well, I think that's so important for Thank you for that. Absolutely. So I'm going to have you start with kind of just telling the audience. I know you probably shared your testimony with others, but I don't know if my audience will be the same. This is a newer podcast. We're just sort of getting started. And so we may not have any crossover. So you want to just. And then I have a list of questions, and I may interrupt and ask some questions along the way, but I'll just give you the floor.

SPEAKER_01: 2:21

Absolutely. It's hard to know where to begin. My family didn't really have a background in church. much less any form of Pentecostalism or the new word evangelicalism. We didn't have any background in anything. I come from a broken home. My father left us when I was probably three years old. I know you said you'd talk with my mother as well. She'll have a better timeline of when things exactly occurred. But I was born in Searcy, Arkansas. We lived there until my mother and my father got divorced. And then we moved here, actually, where I am today, to Orange, Texas, where I was raised for my entire life. And things rocked along. She'll share more of her story, I'm sure. Single mother, raising three kids, trying to finish college, trying to work hard. one or two jobs. And so, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't the easiest, but I had my brothers, I had companionship through them. And I would say I was, I was maybe six or seven years old when she met a man at a bar along, it's called the Long Corn here in, here in the South. And it's a, it's a popular, popular bar and she met this guy and they hit it off well and she's going through a family album of his and she sees the women in his family you know the tied up hair and the bobby pins everywhere and the long skirts and she closed the book she said don't tell me you're a Pentecostal and he said no no I'm not my family is and she said you know good because I'll never be a Pentecostal And he said, you know, you don't have to worry about that, yada, yada, yada. And I went into it a little bit, but to spare the time, my mother came down with some rare form of seizures. They took her to Beaumont because they started off slow, but then they– They grew into like she would be in like an uncontainable state. And so they took her to Beaumont, life flighted her to Houston, then brought in doctors from Baylor, and they examined her. They have about, I think, my mother can correct me if I'm wrong, It's either two or four hours of footage of her going into these seizures and people praying. That's all they knew to do. We had no background in religion, but all they knew to do was pray, and they would stop. And they went into a boardroom and discussed this. They talked about it, and they came back, and they came back with this diagnosis. They said, keep in mind, my mother's... probably in her mid to late 20s at this time. And they said, she's going to have to be in a nursing home for the rest of her life. And all of this praying stuff y'all are doing, y'all are going to have to stop that because she is- The doctor said that. The doctor said that. I don't know where they got it from, but they said she is subconsciously relying on your prayers. And somehow, I guess- They believed her body was triggering some sort of momentary response that would cause her to snap out of the seizures. But they said that the more we continued to pray, the more frequent the seizures would become, the more reliant she would become on prayer. So they said it would just be best if you stopped praying and let her go to a nursing home.

SPEAKER_05: 6:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 6:53

And my father, or my stepfather, who was a Baxlan Pentecostal at the time, I'm pretty sure he still had his earrings in. He felt the unction of the Holy Ghost and he stood up in front and you have to meet him. He's not, he's a very quiet, very, it's out of his character. You know, when the spirit of the Lord moves on you, it's not you anymore. And he stands up in front of a room full of doctors and says, no, she's not. And they look at him like, what do you mean? No, she's not. He said, she will not be in a nursing home for the rest of her life. They walked over, laid hands on her and said, I rebuke the spirit of infirmity in the name of Jesus. And immediately, God raised her up out of that bed and she has never had another seizure. That night, they found a church having revival services. She prayed through to the Holy Ghost. And that was our introduction into the faith. So that's the... That's the first half of how we got into church. That's such a

SPEAKER_04: 8:05

powerful introduction. It

SPEAKER_01: 8:08

is. Have

SPEAKER_04: 8:09

you ever asked your mom why she had such a response to the photo in the photo album? How she even knew what a Pentecostal looked like? And why she said, I will never be that? Did you ever ask her that?

SPEAKER_01: 8:26

So... I can assume, you know, we have one, we had maybe two family members who were apostolic. It was her grandma, and I think she'll be able to tell the story. She remembers when she was a little kid going to services with her, you know, every now and then. But she was never, you know, she'd never received the Holy Ghost or anything like that. She never got involved. But I guess that is an interesting question. You'll have to ask her, you know, why she had such a response to the photos. Because that, you know, I just remember that detail as she said she was going through and she saw it. She said, I'll never be a Pentecostal.

SPEAKER_04: 9:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 9:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 9:20

Wow. What deliverance. So you said you were about six or seven at that time when that happened with your mom.

SPEAKER_01: 9:29

I'm sorry?

SPEAKER_04: 9:35

I was going to say, how long were those seizure episodes? As a little boy, you had to have been terrified.

SPEAKER_01: 9:43

Yeah, I distinctly remember one. We were driving home. My mother grew up in a place called Singer, Louisiana. That's where a lot of her family is from. And we were visiting her mom in De Quincey. And, well, technically, I don't know if you can call it a suburb. It was a little town about 10 minutes outside of De Quincey. Because I remember we were driving back through De Quincey. And I could see I was sitting... I was sitting in the back seat. My older brother was in the front seat. My little brother was also in the back seat with me. And I could see her shoulders start to shake. And my older brother, I mean, he's not much older than me. He's probably 10 at the time. And she's driving down the road, and she starts having these seizures. And I guess at that age, you don't really know what's going on. You know, you know, why is mom, you know, why is mom moving like that? Why is she, why is she, why can't she talk? You know, and my, my, my older brother who's 10 years old had to take the wheel and hopefully, you know, I mean, God's hand was on us that she didn't, you know, stomp the gas pedal or anything and wreck the car. And, you know, she, but she, I remember somehow the, you know, the car slowing down and, pulling into the parking lot. We didn't know what to do. We didn't know how to use a cell phone. And so we just kind of had to sit there and wait it out. Now, if I remember correctly, that probably lasted maybe 20 minutes. And so some would last, they wouldn't be as bad as that one, but they gradually got really, really bad to where they'd last, I mean, a long, long time where she'd fall on the ground and be seizing up. I mean, she would be essentially unconscious.

SPEAKER_04: 11:55

Wow. And so they found a church right after that.

SPEAKER_01: 12:00

They did. They found a church that was having revival. It was either a Tuesday or a Thursday night. And she walked right in and God filled her with the Holy Ghost. And I mean, she was ready to. And after you have an encounter like that, I think you're ready. Yes. Doesn't matter. And

SPEAKER_04: 12:20

nothing else matters after that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 12:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 12:25

So you guys started going to church. How old were you about that time, do you think?

SPEAKER_01: 12:29

We did. I'd say she would have a better timeline. I'd say 10 years old is a safe number. 10 years old. Now, we... You know, I've been asked the question before, you know, why... And my older brother, he ran far as well. He's back now and doing really good. But I've been asked, you know, why did I run as far as I did? Why did I do the things I did? I think... And maybe I'm wrong here. I... To this day, I'm the only one who still talks to our father. I had something in me that just was drawn to him. I mean, he's my father. And I think him not being there already started working on me. I have a mentor in my life whose hindsight is always 20-20. And the ton I didn't understand before. I guess, psychologically what it was doing to me. But I mean, I can look back now, like even at the young age of 10, even though I was going to church, I was struggling. There was some emotional, and I know this is a buzzword in our culture and I don't use it as a buzzword, but I truly did have emotional trauma from things like, you know, my mother having seizures and my father leaving, you know, just small things like that that build up

SPEAKER_05: 14:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 14:11

Over time. And I think that's why, even though we did get into the faith, we had a strong introduction. And at a very impressionable age of 10, I think something else had already begun to leave its mark on me. And when the two clashed, I was, for whatever reason, prone to rebellion rather than surrender, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04: 14:39

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it makes total sense, especially in the context of where your life took you. I've sometimes thought... So there's big T trauma, which is physical abuse, sexual abuse, neglect, and there's a fourth I'm just blanking out right now. And then there's little T trauma, where you may not have gone through... physical abuse or sexual abuse or anything like that, but your needs weren't met or a divorce occurs. And divorce, you know, I never, you know, I have a son who his father and I got divorced, and in my later years that I've really begun to see and understand and working with children of divorce, what an impact that that makes. But As an adult, we don't always realize that because our rationality is that the kids are so small, they're not going to know, they're not going to remember. But they do because there is a void, there is an absence. You are half of the other parent. And when that parent is absent, part of you is needing to connect with that, is missing essentially. So yes, you did very much suffer a trauma.

SPEAKER_03: 16:05

So

SPEAKER_04: 16:06

I've thought many times that rebellion, and this isn't an excuse, I always try to draw the spiritual parallels to what's taking place, the way the enemy works against us. And I've often thought that rebellion is a hunger for and sometimes the black sheep of the family is also the truth teller in the family. I don't know if that was the case for you or if it was just you flat out wanted something different.

SPEAKER_01: 16:45

I'll be honest. I was a terrible kid. Okay. I was just bad. But I will say, At the core of who I am, I was chasing after real. That is why, you know, and I know we'll get into it later, but that is why I did what I did. And that's why I never entertained anything other than than what I believe to be real, even now that I'm serving the Lord filled with the Holy Ghost. I won't do anything other than what is real. Because to me, there's no reason to seek out an alternative. And so I think I took a lot of time seeking and searching and hurting, but trying to find something real. And there's a good evangelist who calls it the God-sized hole. And I think that's what I was trying to fill. And I was looking for something real that would fill that God-sized hole. But it's God-sized. You know, only God can fill it.

SPEAKER_04: 18:11

Yes, I agree. Yes. Okay, so sorry to interrupt. Continue.

SPEAKER_01: 18:16

No, no, no, absolutely. So that was our introduction today. into church. And believe it or not, when I get to this part, I've had a lot of people who have had similar testimonies to mine that have come out of the same things that I have. And interestingly enough, their entry point, their doorway, their whatever you want to call it, it was from somebody in the church. Mine was actually from somebody in the church. And so there was somebody in the church, you know, I was young and dumb, and I thought, you know, I wanted to do music. And he said, man, you know, if you want to do music, there's really, you know, there's a way you've got to do this. And I can look back and I can see now the enemy already at work, you know, through his voice. And he started to tell me about, you know, things the conversation did, you know, obviously take a huge turn. And he's like, you know, if you want to make it, you know, in the world, you've got to have help. He said, I'm not just talking about people, but, you know, I'm talking about In terms of the spirit. And. He laid it all out on the table. And. They said. You know. If you. If you want. If you want to. If you want to do this thing for real. This is what you've got to do. And. I. I thought about it. You know. I'm young. I. I'm young and dumb. And. It's just. It's looking for something. And. I. Decided that. text him back. I said, you know what? I'll do it. And I know I'm being vague and your listeners at this point are probably going to be like, what is he talking about? And I'm trying to lay the foundations in a way that people understand, you know, because a lot of times I tell a lot of people want to know why. And that's what I'm trying to... I'm trying to answer the question, I guess, before we get there. And...

SPEAKER_04: 20:50

Was this guy in the church or was he... How are you acquainted with him? And what kind of music was it that you were... So at this point, your rebellion was already in place. And you were looking to make music of a certain genre, I'm guessing.

SPEAKER_01: 21:10

Yeah. Actually... So this guy, he rapped. That's what he did. Now, I'll be honest. I didn't possess any musical ability. I didn't know. At that point, I really had no idea. He kind of pushed me in that direction, which is why if you talk to people I knew when they knew me when I was younger, I mean, I didn't. What you see today is not what I used to be like, but he pushed me in the same direction he was going, and I had no interest in rapping. I had no interest in really making music, which is why I put that to the side when the years started to pass by. And I started to entertain the other side a little bit more. That fascinated me a little bit more than the whole music stuff. And so, you know, they say, oh, you got to make a... I'm sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04: 22:24

No, go ahead. I don't want to interrupt.

SPEAKER_01: 22:27

You know, so society... They say, oh, you know, all these musicians and stuff, they make deals with the devil, all this stuff. And I guess in a sense, that's what I modeled. But it's not like that cut and dry. But it was, long story short, without beating around the bush, he sent me over a script. And it was supposed to be written on a certain... piece of certain paper written with certain ink um lit under a candle in a certain manner you were supposed to say certain phrases before during after had to take a shower before so it was a whole ritual ritualistic process you had to be conducted somewhere where there was a crossroad i mean it was a whole you know but it was it was like a a real real deal process And

SPEAKER_04: 23:27

the goal of that was you can have the desires of your heart, and this is the avenue by which you need to gain them. And it was connecting to help in the spirit realm and not because you weren't able to get there on your own. And this was someone in the church or was he already outside? Someone in the church.

SPEAKER_01: 23:55

He was in the church at the time. Now, he was a little bit older than my brother. I'd say he was probably 16. You know, he was younger. It's not like he knew what he was doing. I mean, I don't necessarily fault him. I know it's his spirit. I know our battle's not against flesh and blood. And,

SPEAKER_03: 24:18

you

SPEAKER_01: 24:19

know, so... That is what it was. It was, you know, you don't have the ability, you don't have the capabilities within your flesh alone to do the things that you want to do. And so in order to accomplish those things, there has to be some sort of non-human involvement. And I'll be honest, there is a truth element to that. The Lord said in Zechariah, it's not by might and it's not by power, but it's by my spirit alone, saith the Lord of hosts. And so even biblically, I'm thinking of stories, even mediums and people on the other side, they understand in their own human ability. Like when I was practicing, I didn't... the knowledge that I, I received the people, it, I, I can't do that in my ability. Like that's not, there's no way a human, you're not, I mean, I guess I took family therapy in, um, in a Texas Bible college. And I guess, you know, he, he talked about the mirror neurons where you can map threats and, and somewhat perceive emotions and, and in a sense, you know, sure. But, But being able to tell somebody, you know, or being able to conjure the familiar spirit of somebody's dead grandpa that's talking to them, that's beyond human ability. Right. That's not something that a human can do. And so there is a truth element to that. And I saw that. I saw that, you know, he's got a point, right? I'm a, and I don't, I don't bring race into it, but I'm just an innocent light kid, you know, that, I mean, I'm just not like, that's not who I am. And so I understand that there has to be a molding to take place. And it did, you know, so I did, I went through, The entire process. I signed my name in blood, wrote the whole. I did everything he told me to do. And I'll be honest.

SPEAKER_04: 26:57

Which was basically a covenant, right?

SPEAKER_01: 27:01

It was. You

SPEAKER_04: 27:01

made a covenant. It was. So he said, for you to have this, you need to make a covenant. At that time, did you know it was with the devil and you consciously

SPEAKER_01: 27:14

made the choice to do that? I did. I consciously did. I consciously knew.

SPEAKER_04: 27:24

Is it hard for you to talk about that today or do you feel like you're careful because you don't want other people to necessarily gain the same information that was given to you in case they are in a vulnerable state? I can appreciate that. Yeah. But at the same time, the woundedness of our heart is what allows us to be easy prey for the enemy. And I say this a lot. If we don't know how our adversary comes against us, we won't be equipped to recognize it or to fight him because we're unaware of his devices.

SPEAKER_01: 28:14

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I know it sounds like I'm being really dodgy. And I'm not. I'm very over the years. I used to just lay it all out on the table. And I've learned that it will either, one, it will overload people and they won't process it. Or two, I will accidentally cross the line and begin to entertain the power of the enemy. And that is something that I vowed to the Lord I would never do and that I would never entertain or gloat in my past. And I developed, I wouldn't say me, I guess the Lord cultivated a sensitivity to, I know I can feel the line and I know when I'm nearing the threshold. And even if, see, here's the thing. We say, well, we're not trying to entertain it. Right. But I can't control what they're entertained by. And that's why. Right. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04: 29:27

Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 29:29

Yes. And so that's why sometimes. And you don't

SPEAKER_04: 29:30

want to plant seeds mistakenly.

SPEAKER_01: 29:33

Mistakenly. Because that was

SPEAKER_04: 29:35

planted in you.

SPEAKER_01: 29:37

Right. It was. And that's why I'm very. careful with what details I share, how I say it, how I approach it, because some people, I'll tell it. There was one kid, and I remember we were in the living room of a pastor's home, and they were asking me, and it got real. I was sharing the rough details, and he said, You know, he said he felt it crawl, like, you know, the chills, you know, up and down his face. He said it felt like it was swirling around his head. And he told me, he said, dude, he said, I've never felt anything like that. Like that was one of the scariest atmospheres I've ever been in. And that's why I'm very careful because I can handle it. I'm not. Like, I'm not going to be bothered by it. It's not. I would hate for a little kid to be listening to this and something bear witness in his room and he has no idea what it is. And it scares him away from God. And that is why if you notice when I share it, I will always exemplify the angelic over the demonic. And I'll say, yeah, there was a devil there. but did you see the two angels that were standing there also?

SPEAKER_05: 31:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 31:06

And I think that is vitally important because we in the church, I see it preaching across America. They love my testimony. And I've gotten to the point to where I will open up talking about the angelic. And if they close up and they're reserved, I will refuse to talk about the demonic because I think a church that welcomes the demonic And pushes away the angelic, that is deception. And that's grounds for breeding demonic activity.

SPEAKER_05: 31:41

Open door.

SPEAKER_01: 31:44

Yeah. It's an open door. Yeah. And after I finished preaching, I went and sat in the back and there was this young kid who came up and walked and he sat next to me. I remember he was 13 years old, the same age I was. And he said, Ethan, man, it was with the purest intention. He said, please tell me your testimony. And immediately the Lord quickened my spirit. And he said, don't say a word. And I was like, You know, when God tells you stuff like that in the moment, you know, you don't, you don't know what to say. And so instead the Lord, he moved on me with the word of wisdom and gave me an analogy. And I said, I said, buddy, you see that, that guy over there, your friend? He said, I do. I said, what's his name? He told me his name. I said, say me and you were sitting here and all of a sudden I yelled his name. And then just started talking to you. What do you think he'd do? He said he'd probably turn around. I said, yeah. I said, what if we continue talking? I looked up and yelled his name again. He said he'd probably turn around again. I said, if we did that enough times, what do you think would happen? He said he'd probably walk over here. I said, be careful what you call out to. You never know when it's going to walk up. And that is why... Like I said, I'm an open book, but before we really get into this, I'll preface and let the audience know this. If you're easily entertained or enticed by these things, this is probably the wrong podcast for you. It just really is, because I hear these stories of some people, and And I'm not calling them liars by any means, but you can tell a lot of it is, I hate to say fabricated, maybe embellished a little bit. And I try not to embellish a single detail of my testimony. And the reason I'm careful with what I share is because the devils that tormented me were real. It wasn't a game. I'm not lying about this stuff. That's why I tell people, don't watch horror movies, period. Especially don't watch ones that are based on real events.

SPEAKER_05: 34:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 34:23

Because all that

SPEAKER_05: 34:25

is real.

SPEAKER_01: 34:26

It's very, very real. I wanted to say that because I hope you don't think I'm being dodgy either. I'm really not. I'm just very careful. I'd hate for somebody, an innocent listener, to get the wrong idea and just run with it.

SPEAKER_04: 34:52

I'm glad you clarified that because it is something that I've noticed with others in ministry. There is an apprehension to talk about the real things that have happened. I had some experiences when I was young. that happened to me and I wrote letters to preachers. I asked everyone that I could, why did this happen? Why did this happen? I'll tell you real quickly. When I was about 11, I had a really close walk with God from an early age. I always heard Him talking to me. I always, I just felt like it was Him and I. I always, He was just always with me. And when I was 11, I woke up in the middle of the night and there were three demons in my room, one at each foot of my bed and one right next to me. And I had a sleep paralysis. Now I know it was sleep paralysis. I didn't know that then. And in my mind, I just kept praying in Jesus' name, in Jesus' name. I just kept praying. And for years, I wondered why. I saw the demonic instead of the angelic. My cousin had seen an angel. And I knew that. And so I grew up for years tormented. And especially when I backslid, I'd had dreams. I had very real encounters. And I think the enemy was always trying to get me to believe that that was my destiny. Because if I was good, then God would have allowed me to see the angelic and he never did. And no one had answers for me. And I asked some very well-known pastors and no one could really answer why that happened to me. And now as a therapist, I have kiddos that come who are having very real demonic encounters but have no church background, no history. And so it's really real. I've sort of sought to understand how the enemy works against people in order to be able to show them how God works and maybe why the enemy is coming against them. Not long ago, a couple years ago, I was waiting to catch a plane And I saw a demonic creature. I was by myself, and I was just outside observing. I saw a demonic creature. And I knew that if that was there, that there would be an angel there, too. But no one taught me that. I didn't know that, but I felt the Lord show me that. And then I just turned my gaze, and under a palm tree... I saw the angel. And I asked the Lord, why is it that we are inclined to see the demonic first? Why does it take us so much longer to tune into the angelic, to the good? So I love that you just said that. And I wonder if you could maybe answer that. Why are we prone to discern things? The darkness first. Sure. Even though in the midst of that, the Lord is there.

SPEAKER_01: 38:40

Absolutely. It is multifaceted. Now, this isn't always, but I think the main reason is a frequency issue. And I don't say that as like a pseudo-spiritual word. It's a real term. I was sitting at the table with my mentor it was late one night after church service and you know we diffuse and we just talk about stuff and I I had developed an acute sensitivity to the demonic being that that was my background that I practiced witchcraft starting at age 13 and so I I remember we were going into service and when we got out of the we got out of the the Jeep, I started picking up on stuff. When I walked into the sanctuary, I looked at him and I said, there have been children sexually abused in the history of this church. And he just looked over at me and he said, he's preached there before. He said, how do you know that? I said, I can feel the witness. It's it's it's here and the the let me let me clarify i felt the reverberations of demonic activity and a lot of times that's what we pick up on anyways um And that happened a few times, you know, and I was telling him, you know, other stories and pointing out other things. Only as he can do, you know, I can't mimic him the best, but we're just sitting at the table. I'm just telling him, you know, these stories. And he slapped the table and points across, you know, with his finger and says, your frequency is off. I looked at him and said, man, what are you talking about? He said, your frequency is off. He said, you are focused on the demonic. And he said, if you could ever learn to switch that, and I think it is literally as simple as, we've all heard the analogy, you know, look around the room and find me everything that's green. And okay, 10 seconds pass, close your eyes, now tell me everything that was red. Well, you might be able to name one thing, but you won't be able to name it because that's what you were looking for. And I think that is our generation's problem probably is that we're looking for

SPEAKER_05: 41:29

it. Very

SPEAKER_01: 41:31

good. And I think the first issue is a frequency problem. The second issue, which is what I learned on the other side, is an expression problem. I've learned a spirit loves to express itself. Even if it is associated with a human, the human might not want to express it, but it doesn't matter what the human wants. It will seep out because a spirit loves to express itself. And I believe every unclean spirit, every demonic influence, every fallen angel, at their core, it is the same thing. It all stems back to the issue of... And even if it's a subtle pride, it is wanting to be noticed. In some way, some shape, some form, some fashion, it wants to be entertained. But it wants you to know that it's there. Now, I've learned that about a lot of spirits, even spirits that love to live in, you know, anonymity, like Delilah. Delilah might be a Delilah, but she still loves to express herself. And she wants somebody to know she's there. And the angelic might not be that way. The angelic is on a specific assignment. Oh, because there's

SPEAKER_04: 42:58

no need. Oh, I love that. Okay, there's no need for the expression because there's no pride. There's no pride. So it's so much more subtle. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 43:11

Think about the times in Scripture. Man, that

SPEAKER_04: 43:12

is so good.

SPEAKER_01: 43:13

Think about the times in Scripture where they would ask the angel what their name was.

SPEAKER_05: 43:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 43:21

And he said, you don't need to ask me for his name is in me. They wanted to express him. And so that's another thing. If you're looking for the angelic and not Jesus, you'll miss it too.

SPEAKER_05: 43:36

Right,

SPEAKER_04: 43:37

right. And a lot of people don't catch that also.

SPEAKER_01: 43:40

If you're looking for them,

SPEAKER_04: 43:42

it's

SPEAKER_01: 43:42

purity. They reflect Him. And the moment they think that we glorify and worship them, they're gone. Because they express Him. They just want to reflect Him. And so you'll go wrong if you focus on them too much as well. And it is so simple. If you keep your focus on Jesus, Then you'll start to notice because he's the one. We don't control angels, but we know who does. We don't commission angels, but we know who does. And devils might act out of spontaneity sometimes. Angels never do. They're on specific assignment. They're there for a certain reason, whether it be to deliver a message, whether it be to harvest a soul, whether it be to war and fight for a city or for a church or for a family. They are there for a specific purpose. And their ministry has the ability to bless us if we're open to it. But if we're so focused on what the enemy's doing and the power of the enemy, then the Lord will say, if that's what you want, thy will be done. And that's what most people will see. I know that was a long answer, but I think that issue is multifaceted. Oh, it's perfect.

UNKNOWN: 45:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 45:03

I think it is a frequency issue. And then at the same time, I think it is an expression issue. Spirit loves to express itself. And when you're seeking it, entertaining it in a spirit love, it's just, it's a combo. It's just, it's waiting to happen. You know, demonic visitation is waiting to happen at that point. If that makes

SPEAKER_04: 45:23

sense. Oh, it makes so much sense. And I hear frequency a lot. I haven't. I'm like, oh, that just sounds like a new age term. But I do hear it creeping up in a Christian context, and I'm like, what does that mean? But for you, you're saying it's just what we've been accustomed to tuning into.

SPEAKER_01: 45:48

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04: 45:50

So, Brother Longston, in this analogy you just gave about picking up on the abuse that happened in the church.

SPEAKER_02: 45:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 46:01

I think your mentor was right. Obviously, you do too in saying you have a frequency issue. But at the same time, you had very real discernment about harm that was happening in what is supposed to be a safe place. And I can tell you there are many stories I know of too where pastors have sexually abused children their own children and other people that have been abused in the church. And those could be some of the backsliders that are sitting out there who refused to come back to the Lord because they were wounded in what they attributed to be godly. So how do you balance out what you felt in the Spirit, which was very real, and also what He said, which was also very real? How do you find that balance there? in addressing that.

SPEAKER_01: 47:00

You know, so let's say, let's say I go into a place and I feel something similar, you know, I feel the open wounds of abuse or, you know, trauma. I believe every gift flows out of wisdom. And I think the right thing at the wrong time is the wrong thing. And I, when it comes to especially children, you've got to be so delicate in the way you handle it and the way you operate. Because I remember I went to a church one time. We were in massive revival. We saw a girl who was deaf receive her hearing in front of everybody. Everybody saw it. Her dad was an unbeliever. He came the very next day. I mean, it was like things were happening. And one of those nights, I was up praying, and it was like 2 or 3 in the morning, which is peak time for demonic activity. And something came walking into the sanctuary, and I saw it. And it was very unclean, and I'd seen it before. And normally with these things, in order to have apostolic authority, you have to respect apostolic jurisdiction and apostolic government. And so I went to the local assembly's pastor and where we were having, you know, I just didn't go to the pulpit and let it fly. You know, I went to him and I said, hey, this is something you're going to handle. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm laying it at your feet. I picked up on the spirit and I've seen the spirit before and it harms children. It's very unclean, which makes me lean toward the direction of sexual. I said, I could be wrong. In two days it came out. And that it was happening. And so, but here's what happened. Everybody in the church found out. And it stopped the revival completely. Completely. Nobody, that next altar call, and we had to end it. And you say, you know, well, that was good, you know, that he was exposed. Absolutely. Absolutely. The Lord told David this one time. David was tore up over his sin with Bathsheba, and God said, I've forgiven you. You're okay with me, David. But what you've done is you've given your enemies the opportunity to blaspheme my name.

SPEAKER_05: 49:37

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01: 49:38

And I never want to do that. I want to be so, so careful with that stuff because— If my frequency is off and all I see is what the enemy is doing, I will lose sight of what God is trying to do in the assembly. While I could let God handle that on the side, if I don't use wisdom, it could stop the entire revival and the train could completely stop in its tracks. And I think the devil will sometimes uncover things and expose sin and become the adversary of the brethren and accuse because he sees something coming. And he says, I need to stop it. And even if it takes uncovering a

SPEAKER_05: 50:25

sin,

SPEAKER_01: 50:26

he will. And people will say, that's backwards. God is the one. God does bring light to dark situations, but I've watched the devil do it as well. And he does it very strategically. And that's because that did stop the revival completely. Now, I'm not saying he should have. He had what was coming to him. Don't get me wrong. But I balance it in that if I stay focused and all I'm looking for is that, then I will miss, you're right, there was abuse, but I know a healer.

SPEAKER_04: 50:56

Right. And restoration, really.

SPEAKER_01: 51:00

And restoration. And there is... If I go devil chasing and devil hunting and all I'm doing is calling out the wickedness, I'll forget that I serve a God of mercy and I serve a God of love. I love that. You know, he said, the Bible calls him the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And I always thought that was interesting because it said Abraham, but his first name was Abram.

SPEAKER_03: 51:35

And

SPEAKER_01: 51:36

he changed his name to Abraham. But for Jacob, he changed his to Israel. But he didn't say, I'm the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel. He said, I'm the God of Abraham,

SPEAKER_04: 51:46

Isaac,

SPEAKER_01: 51:48

and Jacob. And so he was letting people know before he stepped in and really got working. He said, I'm still your God. I still want you. I still love you. And so balance and I while at the same time, I do pick up on the abuse. I do pick up on the hurt and the pain. On the other hand, I can't turn my head this way and forget that there's healing on this side. And if all I do is go in there and roll heads and scream and get mad at the devil, which is all good, I'll forget that there were little kids who were hurt in that place. And I might need to come in with a message on healing. And you can get out of this, even though the devil's lying to you. And he's telling you that you'll always face trauma from this and you'll always think of this. And, you know, no matter who you date, you'll always think of this. That's a lie. And so if I don't say those things and address that and all I do is roll the devil's head, I've missed it. I've missed the angelic. And that's more than just the angelic and the demonic. That's a principle. If we stay so focused on that side, we'll miss the other. Does that answer it? Oh,

SPEAKER_04: 53:13

yeah. I think it is beautiful because it is such a clear expression, I think, of how God works. And it's easy. I meet a lot of people who have such a justice, a sense of justice woven into their personality and their need for just and righteousness. But like you said, we just haven't had the balance of the mercy and the fact that no matter who the abuser is, no matter what a person has done, they're a soul. They're still a soul that God loves, and we have to be vessels of love for them to be. to be able to create an atmosphere where they can be restored. And it is, I think you're right, it takes wisdom to know where are we in these situations to know how to proceed.

SPEAKER_01: 54:18

Yeah. And I do want to say, when Jesus said, it's better for a millstone to be tied around your neck and cast in the sea than to harm one of these little ones. I do believe that's true. When somebody wants to taint the innocence of a child, there is something, I believe, I don't believe that's natural. I don't. I believe there's something demonic behind that genre completely. And so at the same time, while I believe in, here's what people, here's what we don't clarify. I believe in restoration and reconciliation to God. and that your soul can be saved. Now, do I believe in reconciliation to your position in ministry? That's the difference. I don't believe. I believe you forfeited that right. When you have shown yourself to mishandle the sheep of God, because they're not even ours, you have chosen yourself. You've chosen for yourself. That's what you... It's like the analogy, my mentor used an analogy of somebody walking off of a diving board. And if the pool below the diving board represents the judgment of God, when you walk off of that diving board, it's not that God is actively moving against you. You have fallen into his judgment. Like that's just what's there.

SPEAKER_05: 55:52

And

SPEAKER_01: 55:53

I think when people choose to walk, God might not necessarily be moving. You've chosen. That's just what's there. And so when you choose to do something like that, because you do choose. I know this sounds very harsh. I don't care what people say. We have free will. And so when you choose to do something like that, you have forfeited your right. I believe, that's just me, of ministry. And I believe you can be reconciled to God. I believe your soul can be saved. I believe you can repent. But I do believe you'll reap what you sow. And if that is legal consequences, that'll happen. That doesn't mean you won't receive mercy from God. It might mean you won't receive mercy from the American justice system. Right. You chose. And so I do want to preface that. When I say I believe in restoration and healing, I'm not saying I believe that they should be restored to their position in ministry, but I do believe that they should and can be restored to their position in God and back to sonship or daughtership. I will say that. I'm an advocate for mercy, but at the same time, I'm an advocate of you reap what you sow.

SPEAKER_04: 57:09

Sure. Well, yeah, I fully agree. I know we kind of devi off from your testimony, but there's so much, and I'm glad you're not in a hurry. And to anybody watching, this is going to be lengthy because I think there's so much gold here and just so many valuable things that I think is just so representative of the Lord and how to walk this journey out. So you go through this ritual, and I know without describing it, some of the things you've said are so very parallel to the cleansing process we go through with Jesus. You said you had to take a shower. I did. We get baptized. I want you to share whatever you're comfortable with. Sure. Because the devil counterfeits everything of the Lord. There are so many parallels to what you did from an intentional place to what we do as a Christian when we come to the Lord. Do you want to talk about what happened when you did that and what came next for you?

SPEAKER_01: 58:30

Sure. People don't understand. There's this whole movement out there. right now you know it's against works you know you're safe by by grace through faith and not works lest any man should boast and what the apostle was talking about was a work of the work of the flesh so so you're you're you're exactly right in that there are parallels and when we do something in the natural there is something happening in the spirit and so like baptism People will say, you know, baptism is necessary to be saved because they consider it a work of the flesh. Well, it's not because there's something spiritual that is taking place when that happens. It's not a work of the flesh. And the enemy has mirrored that concept, and he understands that there are things, if he can get you to do it in the natural, there is something spiritual that will happen in the realm above us or parallel to us. And so... When you do things like wash yourself before and after, there's a cleansing taking place. There's a whole script I had to write out, which was pretty rough when I think about what it was. Once I wrote it out, I was told to light it under a certain candle. and burn it and say certain words inside, and I did all that. And I'll be honest, at 13, you know, I'm young, I'm like, eh, this stuff ain't real.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:07

Just go, right,

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:08

right. When I lifted the page up, I remember, and I felt the back, and it felt like, almost like braille, like different than, you know, writing into a piece of cloth and you can sort of feel the indentions. It felt engraved. I was like, that's weird. You know, I'm not, you know, I'm not the most spiritual at 13, but that's kind of weird. And I've always been fairly sensitive. I've always been a feeler, not a big seer, but I've always been a big feeler. And I could feel, you know, sometimes it was just off. You know, people said the air in the room is just off, you know, just off. And when I, when I, it didn't like, it didn't click and me really feel something off until it was done. When I, when I cut my hand, signed, signed my name in blood, even then, you know, I'm not even thinking I'm not. And I go and I light it on fire and I say these, this, this phrase three times. That is when I remember there was a, from where I was facing, there was a neighborhood over to my front left. There were neighborhoods all around, but I remember that's where it started. And there was like a wind, and people are going to think this is crazy, but they're entitled to their own

SPEAKER_05: 1:01:50

opinion. Oh, I believe it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:51

And it's like a, like a wind started there, and I could hear the wind chimes, every wind chime from that neighborhood. The dogs started barking. And it's like this wind started traveling around, and I heard other wind chimes just all around me, just wind chimes. And even in places where there were no wind chimes, I heard wind chimes. And they got louder, and I heard our dogs started barking. We have two huge guard dogs. They started barking. And all around, almost like it was closing in. And when it did, it felt like two hands came and rested on my shoulders. And like, almost like it, almost like, think of like a silhouette or a shadow, like, like, like not like attaching itself to my body, like, like almost seamlessly. Is that, does that, does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Like almost seamlessly, like it's around me.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:54

And

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:56

I was like, oh, and I kid you not. I remember for the first time, I had like a vision. And what's funny is I don't know why the Lord's impressing this on me right now. I've never shared this part before. And it's funny because I had dreams later about it. People are going to think this is crazy, whatever. And I went into my first vision and there was a small, it looked like a little parakeet or like a little parrot that came and rested on my shoulder. And not literally like I, and I was like, that was weird. And I heard a laugh. And I was like, I need to go inside. Like this is something. That's when I realized I just did something. Like this wasn't just up late at night playing a game. I just did something. Were

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:07

you afraid at that moment?

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:09

I was. I was. I started getting really like vivid images of some gruesome things and just very violent. And I remember I ran inside and I took a shower and I remember standing at the sink and I was like just rubbing my face. Like I didn't know what something was happening to me. I had no idea what it was. I mean, I had no idea. I just invoked a demon and not just entertained it, but I invited it to walk with me. And that was the difference. And I remember going to sleep that night And when I woke up, everything was back to normal. Everything. Like, you know, strangely normal. But that is when I learned about the process of manifestation. And manifestation is not an immediate thing. And it's not this new age concept of manifestation. Manifestation is spiritual in its essence. And what it means is... I don't want to get too bogged down. Do you know how in Genesis 1, he said, let us make man in our image after our likeness, that them have dominion over the fish of the sea or the fowl of the air. And so male and female created he them, and God blessed them, said, be fruitful and multiply. And we read over that. We read through the Genesis narrative, but we don't even stop to think. That was in Genesis 1. Adam wasn't formed... until Genesis 2. And Eve wasn't formed out of his side until Genesis 2 and 22. So what was going on in Genesis 1?

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:59

Where they were already spoken.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:03

Spoken. Right. And so there was a pattern established in the spirit. That is what manifestation is. You can't manifest what doesn't have a pattern. And I don't mean to get into all of this stuff. No,

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:18

this is so good. Brother Ethan, this is so good because what you're talking about is the power of what we speak and your invitation to that demon, which is the same as our confession to the Lord and asking Him. I believe it's way more than asking Him into our heart. But that is the permission that we give God to cross over us. from this heavenly realm into us because free will only exists if we choose. So I think what you're saying is something that I believe that's why we fail frequently in prayer, like why it's so hard for people to really believe in what they pray for and to really pray for with the confidence and the fervency because we're maybe missing, maybe not everybody is missing it, but prayer is just something that we've always been told what to do. But this concept of the delay between the spoken word and the manifestation of that spoken word, I think is so powerful that would bring a lot of, Encouragement and faith to the body if they just understood the principle that you're describing. So I hope that you will speak more on that because it's very powerful.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:00

Absolutely. So you can't manifest a pattern that is not there. Or if you do, it's not of God and it won't be fruitful. and it won't be multiplied, and it won't be blessed. Because you cannot find a single place after Adam and Eve are formed, or you can use the word manifested, where God verbally speaks that same blessing over them. He blessed the image. He blessed the pattern. And He said, you in and of yourself are not. blessed it is the image that i set up and that i've established that has my blessing so as long as you live in these parameters you will be blessed and you will be fruitful and you will multiply and you will manifest these characteristics but the moment you try to manifest something else it's not a blessing that follows it's a curse and so he said he said if you live up to this this image These qualities will begin to manifest. You will have dominion. You will be fruitful. You will multiply. But you cannot manifest what's not in the image. Adam and Eve, no matter how much they strived, and that's the thing about manifestation. People think they have this whole New Age concept of striving, and you have to just say it over and over. You don't have to strive. If it is in God's will for you to have it, you don't have to strive. You don't have to say the right word. Like, I receive it. I claim it. That's That really, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. If God wants you to have it, obedience is what he desires. Obedience is what brings about the manifestation of the sons of God. That's what it takes. And so as long as Adam and Eve were obedient, they stayed under the blessing. And so that is how that process works. But I had to submit my obedience not to God. And what that means is it is now not just what I say, it is what I do. I've got to look a certain way. I've got to talk a certain way. I've got to dress. And all of these things that began the process of manifestation because a spirit in and of itself... Was that

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:19

conscious? It

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:21

wasn't. None of this was conscious. It was after the fact I realized what was going on and God gave me a deeper understanding of... When I got older, I understood. I looked back and I understood what was happening. Because people don't know. And spirits are formless. They don't have. So the only way they can manifest is through a person. Manifestation is not a form. it's not technically a spiritual word. It only relates to the earth because that's what it means for something to manifest is that it is brought from another reality and it manifests into the physical. And so when a spirit, the only way, I really want to, I hope people catch this concept. The only way something can be fully manifest is if the qualities of that person formless spirit are are aligned and then it can breach it works the same with the holy ghost the only way his spirit is able to manifest and breach through a believer is if his qualities are aligned which is the fruit of the spirit and so so once those qualities are are put in place and you look right, you act right, you talk right, and all of these, that is when manifestation begins. That's why they said the earth travails awaiting the manifestation of the sons of God. It's waiting for people to catch this, that the only way a spirit can truly manifest is the moment the qualities are in alignment with that individual. And so that spirit had to wait until I looked like it, I talked like it, until it, boom, it took form through me. And I became its hands and I became its feet and I became its mouth. Does that make sense? Because the spirit isn't human. Yes. Has no form.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:34

Thousand percent. So when you woke up the next day and everything was normal, even though the work was done... because of the invitation and the ritual, it took time for that spirit to manifest in you to where you began to look like it, talk like it, act like it. The form it wanted to take, it just used you as a host to do so. And so this is where I think, I'll try not to cry. But I think that this is such a powerful piece because growing up in church, holiness is always spoken about from the outward appearance. And I have a whole... The Lord is teaching me. This is very powerful for me. But so the depth of... the outer shell has not really been conveyed, or maybe it is, but we just get tripped up by perhaps offense, perhaps pride, perhaps all sorts of other things that exist in those of us who grew up in church and who left. And I think I can see, because I've been at other churches, I can see that there is a depth of the Spirit and there is a move of the Spirit and an anointing that doesn't exist in other places. And not that I have lots of friends in other churches and pastors and stuff, but I'm talking about for me and what I'm looking for in my walk with God. And I have related it to the correlation between The outward, because the people that I honor and that I see the love and grace of God in live that. But I think, and God's doing a work in me in that, but I think what you're talking about is so very powerful in both worlds, because it's very easy to see how the enemy is working in someone because it shows in their outward. I particularly noticed that when people are marked with tattoos. And I know there's a lot of belief systems over that, but I read Dan Brown's book, and I forget the name of it, but the guy that was serving the devil had tattooed his whole entire body in order to become a representation of the demon that he was manifesting. So that's where I began to sort of understand that. But I love what you're saying. I feel like the parallel between how it works in the demonic realm and the holiness from a spiritual place, like God just does that work in us on his own. Right. Right. As we yield to him.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:16:07

But I just think there's missing pieces that we don't maybe know how to convey in the same way. So continue.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:18

Yeah. You know, and it is all like my mentor does something like this with his fingers. He said, all of this is tightly fit and joined together. There is so much overlap in the kingdom of God and how this stuff works. It's crazy. And the reason you'll see me, I look up a lot and I'll scramble for words, is because I've got it all up here. But the way to bring it out is crazy. It's hard because a lot of it is going to be anthro, you know, just try and relate it because it's a spiritual concept. But all of these things are so woven together because you can have the inside and not the outside, and it's not right. And you can have the outside and not the inside, and it's not right. It's got to be both. It's got to come together because if you've got the shield, the outside, without the inside, you miss the support that is necessary to uphold the outside, and it will eventually fail. And if you really have it on the inside, it will begin to manifest to the outside. So it is difficult to fake the inside, because those qualities will begin to manifest. And I do believe holiness begins inwardly, and it expresses itself outwardly. outwardly it it is always it always begins inwardly and you know and so the the parallels are shockingly the same on the other on the other side they if you notice and then again it depends there because because there are thousands of different forms of of witchcraft so a lot of them But if you notice, I was talking with our missionary to Ecuador just a few weeks ago, and she was over at the house, and we were just having a really, really powerful move of God. And she started talking about the witch doctors that she comes in contact with over there, and they all have a certain look. They've got a certain just feel to them. And it is because... they are giving a form to a spirit they host that is formless. That's why they do the things they do. That's why they look the way they look. Because like we said, like it's all tightly fit and joined together. We already talked about it before. A spirit loves to express itself.

SPEAKER_05: 1:19:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:11

A spirit loves to express itself. It is going to try and find a way to, because it has no other way to express itself other than through us. And we don't catch that. And the kingdom of God is the same way. The body of Christ is through believers. The body of Satan is the exact same way. His kingdom works through people. That is the only way. That is what works. Half of this thing is about them needing a host, God needing a vessel. Both parties need a vessel. I guess they don't need, but in the way the system works, they use vessels to accomplish wills on earth. And everybody knows that if the vessel is more... more like its potter. It's got that same feel. It's going to be more useful. It's going to be more effective. And so that is why a spirit will try its best to have you take its form. And that is why Jesus strives so hard through his spirit to make us more like him so that he can manifest himself through us. And that is why it all boils down to willingness and surrender. And whatever level of obedience we're willing to give God. And the other side's the same way. The spirits oftentimes flow to the point of least resistance. And so if you won't resist it and let it have its way, both sides, they'll take you wherever like a river. And so there are, like you said, there are a lot of parallels there.

SPEAKER_04: 1:21:01

Did you ever find yourself unable? Did that spirit take over to the point where you became its slave? Do you ever feel you were subjugated to it until you became delivered? Or do you feel that you were willingly always a participant?

SPEAKER_01: 1:21:25

So I've learned this is how Satan works. He doesn't like that word because he doesn't want you to

SPEAKER_05: 1:21:40

think.

SPEAKER_01: 1:21:43

He doesn't like people thinking they're slaves. And what that means is the moment you think, whether it is human ego or... That is why addicts will not admit they're addicted.

SPEAKER_04: 1:21:57

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:21:58

He don't want you to think you're addicted. He don't want you to think you're a slave. And so... There were times where, yes, I was and I didn't even know it. I thought I could have sworn up and down. No, no, no. This is me. But hindsight is 20-20. I didn't have as much control over my will as I thought I did. And that is what people don't understand. The Bible said he's cunning. He's a very cunning taskmaster. He knows how to rule over people. He doesn't want you to think he's ruling over you, though. He doesn't want you. Because that's the whole trick. Right, the deception that you're still in

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:45

control.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:46

It's the deception that you're still in control. And see, that's the allure he gives is freedom. You know, that's just a bunch of rules. But on my side, I got some freedom. I mean, Eve, he don't want you to be like him. That's the whole reason he let you eat the fruit. He knows that if you eat of it, you're going to become like him. You could be free. You could be like him. And here's the thing. Here's where his initial lie begins. He got Eve chasing something that already belonged to her. She was the only creature created in the image of God. The only creature.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:25

And

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:26

the devil sold her a lie of something that God had already offered her.

SPEAKER_05: 1:23:31

That

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:31

is what people don't understand. That's powerful. It's something that God has already laid on the table. It's something that he's already integrated into the system. He said, he just doesn't want you to be like him. He knows you're going to be like him.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:01

And

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:02

Eve could have stopped and said, wait, we're the only creature that God breathed on and we became a living soul. And we're the only one who was created in his image. So that's his trick. It's a facade of freedom. It's, hey, you could come out and I could fill a void you've been seeking.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:23

God

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:24

already does that. So like you said, it's a deception. He's tricky with the way he does things and words things.

SPEAKER_04: 1:24:33

Was there a time that you felt that you didn't have any control? I had a kiddo once who, I don't know all the details. Mom was present at the time, but really... jumped into witchcraft and the occult and found themselves afraid, really even of talking to me, but afraid of saying anything because they were threatened by the demonic. And so they were very much a slave to whatever that demon wanted and began... acting in that way. And I don't know what happened there, but there was such a battle of that person being able to just talk about what was happening because they were so afraid they were being threatened on the other side. Did you ever feel like that? Did you go through those experiences?

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:43

I did. Probably the scariest encounter I ever had with... A demon was a threat. And it was... It walked into my room, actually. It woke me up. And actually, you know, when you surrender yourself to the hand of the enemy, they have a certain... They do have a certain jurisdiction. Not as much as, you know, they'll tell you they have. God. And, you know, he... And he put me back to sleep and he... It was a rough dream. And he did. He threatened me and told me that if I ever tried to leave this thing, that he would kill me. And that the only way he was getting out of it, I was getting out of this thing, was if he wanted me to get out of it. But now, 2020, there's something I learned about the enemy. And if he is saying he's going to do something, that means he doesn't have the power to do it. The very fact that he's saying it tells me, because I know enough about the enemy at this point. You ain't going to tell me if you're going to do something. You're just going to do it. When you tell me you're going to attack my marriage, or when you attack my marriage, he doesn't tell me. He just does

SPEAKER_05: 1:27:09

it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:27:09

When he wants to attack my finances, he's not going to tell me. He's just going to do it. When he got ready to attack Job, he didn't tell him. He just did it. Right.

SPEAKER_02: 1:27:19

And

SPEAKER_01: 1:27:20

so if he's telling you he's going to do something, he is already letting you know, I don't have the power to do it, but I do have the power to intimidate and threaten. And because if he really wanted to do something, he'd just do it if God allowed him to do it. There's no point in him just saying it. I hope that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04: 1:27:43

Oh, man, that's so good. That's so good because I think that that's a principle, right? Yeah. That is how the spirit of intimidation works. That's how it works through people. And yeah, I think that that's powerful for people who live in intimidation when they live with a spouse or an abuser in their life. That's exactly how it behaves. And so to recognize, if you're telling me it's because you're ultimately afraid, because I actually have more power than they think. I think that's revelatory.

SPEAKER_01: 1:28:22

Yeah. I went into a vision one time. I really, really struggled with intimidation, and I really did. And I didn't know what God was showing me. In what sense? What sense

SPEAKER_04: 1:28:40

were you struggling with intimidation? Intimidating others or being intimidated?

SPEAKER_01: 1:28:49

Being intimidated. And there are certain people, and it's so funny. Not funny. It's funny when God spoke this to me. It was people who would intimidate me. But I can spot the spirit of intimidation from a mile away. Yeah. When people truly host the Spirit, because they're, like I said, all of this is so tightly fit and joined together. The Spirit loves to express itself so it will manifest in their characteristics. I hope people catch this. He showed me a vision, and I was standing at nighttime. I was on a bank, and it looked like an ocean, dark water. And He said, Ethan, swim across. And I'm looking out and I'm like, God, there's... You seeing what I'm seeing right now? Look at this. It's dark water. I mean, it looked like it was for miles. He said, just swim across. And I said, I wrestled. Okay. I... I take the first step and it doesn't even go past my ankles. And I keep walking and it'll go past my ankles. I keep walking and it'll go past my ankles. I said, what is this? He said, it's the spirit of intimidation. It is miles wide and it's an inch deep.

SPEAKER_05: 1:30:31

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 1:30:33

And you will learn people who have the spirit of intimidation, they're about an inch deep. spiritually, emotionally, mentally, everything about them. They're very shallow. But for whatever reason, because they're manifesting the characteristics of a spirit of intimidation, intimidation only has a facade. That is what makes intimidation intimidation. People think, see, a threat is different from an intimidation. Intimidation is intentional. It is a tactic. Intimidation is saying, intimidation If I can make you think I'm going to do something, that's where the power is. A threat is I actually have the potential to do something. And so I'm sorry if I messed up those terms earlier, but there is a difference. And a lot of times what the enemy does is he intimidates. I don't know that he ever has the power to truly threaten. I don't think God lets him do that. I don't think he can say you take two steps and we'll pop you. I don't think God will let him do that. I personally, I can't see it in scripture, but I do know he loves to intimidate. And when he intimidates you, it is going to look miles wide. And it's going to be like me standing on that shore. There's literally no way I can confront this. Like there is no way. And then you get out there and you're like, wait, that's all this was? That is what this is, really. And to me, that's what I've learned, the threats of the enemy. It's intimidation. It is intimidation. A lot of his work is intimidation.

SPEAKER_04: 1:32:18

And I think when it comes to addicts and when it comes to backsliders, that intimidation of all the things they think they have to do in order to make it back is miles wide. Like you said, it just seems... unachievable uncrossable like I can't do it but when you start it's never anything like it looks like it's going to be and I think the enemy uses that yeah if they can just get started just take the first step like you said just take the first step because the enemy wants to make people see the future in a big you know like a big picture instead of just the immediate step that needs to be taken. Wow, that's such a really good visual. So what happened after that? So I know we're... Thank you for taking the time to talk all of this through. I think these are principles that you're sharing that's really going to make a difference to people because it's so powerful. To me, it's powerful. So you began to manifest the spirit that you were hosting. And so what then did manifest? What did that look like for you in your life?

SPEAKER_01: 1:33:41

Yeah. So at 13, I smoked weed for the first time. I drank for the first time, which is... It's not funny, but I say funny as in, you know, how convenient that it started on substances. Because the Greek word for witchcraft is pharmakia or pharma. And it is a lot of what, a lot of witchcraft, when people begin the practice, they will take some substance. And it is a gate, because it's a gateway. It's into witchcraft. a level of spiritual activity because that's why people say, oh, like I'll ask again because it's so joined together. People don't even realize what they're saying. They say, I do things on that I'd never do sober. Right. Because you're more prone to manifest the characteristics of a spirit. It weakens the veil between you and the spirit. And it allows more of its characteristics to slip out And it's trying to change your personality. That's what it's trying to do. It's trying to mold you into it. And so a lot of times I didn't. That's so

SPEAKER_04: 1:35:00

powerful.

SPEAKER_01: 1:35:02

I never do that sober. Right. That's the whole point. That spirit knows when you're in your right mind, you'd never do something like that. You'd never say something like that. You'd never do the things or go the places you'd go. But if he can get you to break that veil, then his influence is a lot stronger because you'll feel more emotional. You'll sense a little more. On some drugs, you'll see a little more. And some of it is purely just crazy, but some of it's not. You can't discern what it is because you're not in the right mind anyway. You're in his territory. And so you're literally in his, you're in the palm of his hand. He can play with you however he wants and play the card. I mean, you're in his house. And so once you cross over into his domain with drugs or alcohol, whatever, whatever, once you cross that threshold and that's the issue, nobody knows when it begins. I can't tell you. And I did some pre-dark stuff and I can't tell you where that line is. It is so subtle. That's why I stay away from alcohol. I mean, forget the people saying, you know, it's hard. I'm not walking near that line. It's not going to happen. To me, that is evidence of something, of a spirit that has made its way into your heart that is trying to manifest itself. And that's not, I'm not saying a believer is possessed, but they can be under the influence. And so that's why I'm not going to, I'm not even going to give that, I'm not going to give the devil a foothold. And so that's where it started was, I know for whatever reason I'm, all over the place. You're good, you're good. I apologize. I'm trying to. You're

SPEAKER_04: 1:36:58

good.

SPEAKER_01: 1:36:59

And so it started with a lot of drugs, and that became my vice. It wasn't chasing girls. It wasn't anything like that. It became drugs. And at 15 is when I started doing stuff a little harder, like cocaine, XOs, other drugs. prescription like Vyvanse Concert or Ritalin Ad or all that stuff and um started selling it at 16 actually and it things took a a shift at 15 and 16 and I remember that is when it happened that is when um possession happened. And it was at that point, you know, people think every account of possession is going to be similar to the demoniac at Gadara. You know, ripping his clothes off and running, cutting himself. No, that's not. That's not what happens. What it means to be possessed by a spirit means at any point in time, if it wants to, If it wants to, it can take complete and utter control. You have surrendered enough of yourself and enough of your will to it that it is now, it is no longer 50-50. It has crept from 90-10, 80-20. It is now 51-49. And once it hits that point, it's possessioned. because when I possess something, I don't always use it. It just means I've got it. And that's how, you know, I hate to use that word, but it is, it is a mimic. I hate to use the word, you know, possessed by Christ, but you know, when you're really taken over by Christ, when he can do whatever he wants through you through any time and you won't buck, you won't say, you know, that is when you

SPEAKER_02: 1:39:12

know,

SPEAKER_01: 1:39:13

when you, when you are, When you've surrendered enough of yourself that he can say, do this, or even if he wanted to, take complete control, and you'd have milk wall. That is when you know you're there, you've crossed that threshold. And so I think I crossed that threshold. And some people cross it quicker than others. Then again, I think the cup of iniquity for some spirits is filled quicker than others. And so I think that their manifestation process is a little bit shorter than some. Like I believe suicide is the manifest spirit of depression. And I believe when the cup is full with, you know, whether it be depression, I believe when the spirit fully manifests and brings itself into the natural, it results in suicide. A true spirit of depression.

SPEAKER_05: 1:40:08

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:40:08

And maybe I'm wrong on that, but from my past, that's what I've observed. It's a true spirit of heaviness, something that torments your psyche, and that typically it is accompanied with a torment. When that fully manifests, it will. Because I used to think that suicide was a separate spirit, but I don't know that that's the case. I think there's a murderous spirit. I've seen that on people before.

SPEAKER_05: 1:40:34

So

SPEAKER_01: 1:40:35

have I, yeah. I never watched it happen. I have friends who've watched it happen. There's a look. I do believe there is a murderous spirit that can fall on people. And that might even be turned inwardly, which would result in suicide. But I do believe the spirit that is behind the 13 reasons why, that is the spirit I'm talking about. That was ushered into my generation. That's the spirit. And whether you want to call it depression or suicide, I think they're the same. And I think this word suicide is just the manifestation of depression. That's what it's trying to do. It might not get there, but that's its end goal. It's that spirit, not talking about the depression as in, you know, like you would probably see in some clinical cases where people are just overwhelmed. I'm talking about the torment of depression, right? where it takes a sudden dark twist, where it's like, oh, I don't want to be here anymore. That is the spirit I'm talking about. And I think it's carefully blended itself with so many different things. It's hard to pull out from all of its masks, but that's the one.

SPEAKER_04: 1:41:51

Well,

SPEAKER_01: 1:41:52

I was going to ask you about that. I'm talking about a lot here. I'm really getting into

SPEAKER_04: 1:41:58

a lot. I love it. I think it's critical for the days that we're living in And I, you know, I worked in, I've shared this on a different podcast, but I worked in suicide loss for a couple of years. And one of the most disturbing cases to me was the death of a 45 year old female who attended church every week. And yet that in her driveway and, you know, put a gun to her chest. And I, I, I, Part of the reason I'm reaching for these questions and this conversation is because I think there's a lot of spirits at work that we haven't identified and we haven't named and we have given place to things because we have normalized so many things. And I have seen the murderous spirit come. I've had several cases. It hits boys. I have such a heart for... Boys and men, because I feel like the enemy targets them a lot. But I have seen that. I have experienced that. And I have had confession of that by clients. And you actually mentioned it when you first invited that spirit the very first night. That night you had violent visions. And I think... I think that, like you said, the enemy wants to kill us and he's going to do it through a murderous spirit or through a suicide spirit. But ultimately, whatever is at work is trying to gain us. So I was going to ask you if you felt that depression was an oppression. And I've always looked at this as oppression being on the outward trying to engulf us. And possession was on the inward. But hearing you speak, it sounds like there are levels of manifestation that begin to intertwine a person's life and thereby getting on the inside. And so it grows into a spirit of suicide versus a separate spirit coming on a person's As an oppressive spirit.

SPEAKER_01: 1:44:33

Right. There are three, and the fact that they all rhyme really helps to remember. There are three levels of demonic activity. And when I say the first level, I'm betting something's going to click for you. In your practice, you're probably going to, oh, that makes sense. The third highest level is possession. The second level is oppression. The first is obsession. Any possession you find.

SPEAKER_04: 1:45:12

That's just the seed, right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:45:13

It began with an obsession somewhere. The enemy found what enticed them because if he can control your appetite, that was his first temptation with Jesus, turn these stones to bread. If I can control your fleshly, your carnal appetite, if I know what makes you turn, if I know what makes you tick, that's what he'll build on. And so if I was obsessed with the love of a father, he can say, I can flip that. You can be obsessed with the abandonment of your father.

UNKNOWN: 1:45:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:45:58

It's always opposite. It's always opposite. I can build on that. And he'll always say, I can use that. And it has started. And time after time, no matter where I find, there is an obsession somewhere in their life, whether it is obsessed with a, it could be a virtuous thing, but discipline in the wrong areas is oftentimes the key to inviting a demonic presence. But it'll start with an obsession. Either they are, and I hate to say this in this manner because I've been with plenty of people who have had terrible things happen to them, but some people become obsessed with the trauma of their past. And it becomes, and that might not be, and I mean, I feel for them because there are some things like my mom's been through that I couldn't even imagine. But I do know at some point, we have got to make a conscious decision. Either we were born one way or the other. God commanded Saul to be born again and take on his characteristics. And if he's a healer, he can still heal. No matter how deep the wound is, I've got to trust that he can heal. But the enemy knows... okay, if they're obsessed with this wound, with whatever was inflicted on them, I've got to build on that. And he'll start with an obsession. And some of them are literally just carnal obsessions. Some people are, you know, obsessed with other things. Again, obsessed with image, self-image. Some people are, but that is what, it very rarely leads to possession, but it will most of the time lead to an oppression.

SPEAKER_04: 1:47:59

Man, I find myself often, loneliness is something that I see a lot, and I wonder if that is the spirit of heaviness. And that definitely was the case in my life until the Lord filled that place. But with someone that doesn't know the Lord and doesn't, maybe even have a hunger for that, or it just seems obscure to say there's a God-sized hole in you. Do you think that there is a prayer or there is something that can be said or done that can help them rethink the loneliness? Because loneliness and heaviness is so visceral. Like, I don't know. I sometimes, you know... Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:49:28

You know, there's a psychologist I love, and he says something that rocked me. He said a lot of times we don't succeed in achieving new goals, he said, because we don't aim low enough. He said we jump for if we want to

SPEAKER_03: 1:49:53

be,

SPEAKER_01: 1:49:54

you know, fit. We want... We want to go get the membership today. We want to get all the clothes today. We want to get all the pre-workout. We want to get all the protein powder. And he said, instead of just go to the gym today. Right. Just do the first thing. Just do the first thing. And I've learned it's the same way with God. And the Lord spoke to me on the same principle. And he said, Ethan, this is the same reason people miss my activity is because they don't look low enough.

SPEAKER_03: 1:50:26

They

SPEAKER_01: 1:50:27

have their head up here and they say, you know, so they really think their loneliness is, you know, where's God? And they're looking like this. When in reality, if they went like this and said, where's God? They'd find him. And I know that that's a simple analogy, but really, I would always encourage people. If it's with a true heart, pray this prayer, God, if you're real. I want to serve you if you're real. Would you show yourself to me? And I'll always say, but don't be shocked if he reveals himself low. Don't be shocked if it's somebody on the street who passes by and says something simple as Jesus loves you. That's him. Don't miss it. Don't have your head in the clouds and think he's going to write something in clouds for you. That's him. He's weaving his way through your life in a low manner. Because he's not in the fire that passes by the rocks. He's not in the earthquake. He's not in the great wind.

SPEAKER_03: 1:51:31

He's

SPEAKER_01: 1:51:32

in those small, you know, it might be, it's in the craziest things. Like somebody, hey, man, let me pay for your coffee today. Or can I get you anything? I just want to check up on you. I wanted to say, man, just small things like that. People say, oh, that's just people. No, no.

SPEAKER_03: 1:51:51

We've

SPEAKER_01: 1:51:51

got to look low enough and realize that God is a lot closer than we think. Well, we just look up here. We think he's going to write on the walls like he did with the emperor. He might. Hey, he might. Ask him to. I'm not going to say he's not. But what I've learned is a lot of times, and I get excited because I know it to be true. And I love the fact that he reveals himself in that way. It brings such an element of wonder to who he is. And I'm not necessarily angry that he doesn't write on the walls. I'm kind of glad that he reveals himself in ways like my wife just wrapping her arm around me, telling me, you know, I love you. That might be the love of my wife. But there's an aspect of God being revealed through that. In small, you know, but it's in a way only He can do it. And when people, you know, when I'm probably explaining it in such a way, people are like, oh, that's just normal everyday things. There's a frequency to when it, and if you're tapped into it, it's the way it rings. It's the way it sounds. It's the way you're like, no, I know that voice all too well. I know that method of communication. I know that's not an accident. That's not, yeah, it's not just, you know, somebody one time we took a really hard, you know, financial hit and all of a sudden we got a check in the mail and somebody said, I was just thinking of you. You know, you weren't just thinking of me. God was thinking of me. And people would say, oh no, you just got lucky. I didn't get lucky. In the kingdom, you don't get lucky. God has his eyes on you. And so that's what I would say to somebody who's struggling with loneliness. Where's God? Have you tried looking? And maybe they have. But I would mostly start, have you tried looking low enough? Because he might just reveal himself in a way that kind of makes you turn your head. Like, that can't be him. Not the God of the universe. That can't be him.

SPEAKER_04: 1:54:10

Yeah, that's so good. That was a long answer, but I hope that's... No, it's so good. Years ago when I first rededicated my life, I was so used to the Lord talking to me, and then He went silent, and I was kind of really anxious about it. And my mentor at the time told me, if you look for God's hand, every day you will see it. And so I began every day to just look, and I would see a little bird... Right when I looked up, I'd look at my clock and the numbers would line up. And so I was very comforted by that, just paying attention to the little things that God was just allowing me to see at the perfect time. I'm going to ask you for one more story, and I could probably talk to you for eight more hours. But you... You talked about in one of your testimonies the story of the men in the hospital. So at some point you overdose, and I guess we're close to death. Do you want to tell that story? And before you start, I'll tell you my question so I don't have to

SPEAKER_03: 1:55:26

interrupt.

SPEAKER_04: 1:55:26

The men, I know that you believe them to be demonic and angelic. Did you see them in physical form or were they spiritual but you were able to see in the spiritual?

SPEAKER_01: 1:55:46

So I saw them in physical form. Physical form. And it wasn't just me. My mother saw them as well. My stepdad saw them. I believe one of my brothers was there. I believe he saw them as well. This was an encounter that not just... But I've learned when you have encounters like that, you don't realize it until after the fact. Like, wait a minute, something was off. Did you notice he had a name tag but didn't have a name on it? Yeah, did you notice they were never in there with the nurses? Yeah, did you notice they were just weird? And you're like, wait a second, wait a second. And, you know, did you realize he said what he said and he did what he did? You know, and there was a few details I didn't even, you know, share on the other podcast. They were just of the... So I'll tell the

SPEAKER_04: 1:56:43

story.

SPEAKER_01: 1:56:45

Yeah, so I overdosed at 17. On what?

SPEAKER_04: 1:56:49

Was

SPEAKER_01: 1:56:51

it fentanyl? No, it was on cocaine and ecstasy. And I... They pulled me out of a ditch, and God forbid, there is actually a video of me wrestling the cops on the OD. And my old friends had it, and they posted it everywhere, and they were saying, look, he's wrestling 10, 15 cops. So there is video evidence of this out there somewhere, and I'm glad it has not gone viral. But after... after that they put me into a I don't even know what it's called but they strapped me down to like a hospital ambulance but they rolled me up and put me in the back of the ambulance and drove me to the hospital and when I get there you know they were feeding me charcoal and trying to pump my stomach and get me to vomit all of the drugs and things like that but here was what i didn't preface people were saying you know people want some of the comments they didn't understand they were like oh you know y'all are hearing this guy talking about he saw angels and devils and he was high out of his mind that uh that that was the whole point was that my stomach was pumped and I wasn't anymore. And the doctors couldn't find out why I was not responsive. That's the part of the story that makes it so, I want to say powerful, but strange is that I was slipping in and out of consciousness and the doctors had no idea why they were saying. Because you had no more drugs. I had no more drugs in my system. Yeah, it wasn't

SPEAKER_04: 1:58:47

the drugs that was causing you to be in and out

SPEAKER_01: 1:58:51

of consciousness. And cocaine and ecstasy, they're not hallucinogenics. They're not psychedelics. They don't make you hallucinate. And so there's that. So people who don't know about the drug world, that's a speed drug. You don't see things on that. It's not one of those drugs. That line's not crossed yet. But for whatever reason, like I was slipping in and out of consciousness. So it wasn't like I was tripping out on acid C and stuff. No, this was I was overdosed. They thought I was going to die. And not only that, but those types of drugs wear off very quickly. So it wasn't– and I say all that to say it wasn't a matter of like– A physical issue. Right. Like I was on no psychedelics. And not only that, I mean, if we had the reports, I'd show them. But the doctors, they completely cleared my system. That's why they were like, we don't know what's going on. He's going in and out of consciousness. And the drugs are out of his head. We don't know what to tell you. We've ran tests. We don't know what's going on. So they get you to

SPEAKER_04: 2:00:14

the hospital. They pump your stomach. Everyone's thinking, okay, you're out of the danger zone. But you slipped into unconsciousness. And at that point, they begin to think that you were going to die. And they

SPEAKER_01: 2:00:29

didn't know why. They thought I was going to die on the way there, actually. And while I was on the way there, they thought I was going to die. And when they pumped my stomach and soul, they were more confused. Like, my vitals were fine from what I understand. Then again, I was in, you know, my mom will have a better recount of all of this. From what I understand, my vitals were fine. They were more confused. Like, what is, like, what's going, like, why is he, why is he just randomly passing, like, what? what what's going like he's phasing in and out going unconscious like they didn't know what was going on they were saying this shouldn't be happening like they I don't know and so I think they were more confused and so they leave the room and I do remember the whole place felt I've never felt anything like it it was just weird felt like a dungeon and um The door opens up and the security guard walks in. I remember as a Chinese guy and he comes in and he's looking around and he just had this grin on his face and he's looking around. And one of the details I didn't share and my mom doesn't think it's as funny as I do, but he picked up her water cup and started drinking out of it. And he's like running into stuff like he didn't know how to human. He drank out of her water. And so she was like, what is wrong? But it's a security guard. So what are you going to say to him? That's so aggressive.

SPEAKER_04: 2:02:17

That's so overt for him to

SPEAKER_01: 2:02:19

grab her cup. He can throw you out. Yeah, like he can throw you out. And it's

SPEAKER_04: 2:02:26

a symbol of authority.

SPEAKER_01: 2:02:27

Yeah, it is. From the demonic. From the demonic. Yeah. And my mom noticed every time. She could never catch him. He'd come by my bedside. And that's when, you know, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. My heart rate would go up. And I'd start, she said, I'd start spazzing out in the bed. The doctors or the nurses would have to. And he'd just walk out when I did that because she'd run over to the bed and he'd walk out. And soon the nurses would come in. And they'd come and, you know, put me back down and make sure I was okay. And he'd come back in again. Same thing. That was probably the confusion. You know, they were like, why is he freaking out? Like, what's going on here? And my mom, you know, she didn't put two and two together. Like, hey, there's some guy walking in. I don't know what he's doing. But it happened a few times. And then she said she was, I don't remember if she was talking to my stepdad, but she looked over and she said he was leaned over the bed and his whole face was contorted. And she stands there. This is a security guard, so you know it had to be the spirit of the Lord on her. She pointed at him and yelled, you get out right now. Get out of this room. And he turned and looked at her, just grinning, and walked out of the room. And what we didn't see, what I didn't see, was that there was a same uniform, a Middle Eastern man, And he had, my mom said he had, well, he came from behind the door, but my mom said she had saw him. He was pacing outside. And he looked at her and said, Mama, don't stop praying. You and I both know that's not drugs. That's devils.

SPEAKER_05: 2:04:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 2:04:24

I got

SPEAKER_05: 2:04:26

goosebumps.

SPEAKER_01: 2:04:27

The Chinese man actually tried to, when they finally discharged me, he actually tried to take me back to my car. Or not my car. I wasn't driving. They tried to take me back to my mom's car. And that guy came out of nowhere again and said, I don't think so. I'll take him from here. And we didn't think anything of it. until after and we were like wait a second like that that wasn't there was something up there and it's it's to this day you know now i know that it was the angelic and the demonic both at work and it's you know it's it's just it's crazy to to have that memory, you know, I remember both of their faces. Like it wasn't, it wasn't like something I had a vision or I had a dream and I'm not discrediting those things, but it's like the fact that I, I saw it, looked at it, you know, it is, it's, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_04: 2:05:39

Was that the start of your deliverance? It was. Do you think you, did you make a decision in that hospital bed to follow the Lord that gave that? The angel, we'll call it an angel, permission to take you the rest of the way.

SPEAKER_01: 2:05:55

So that was actually, believe it or not, that was a relapse a week after I was delivered. And that ended up happening. And so, but from that point on, from that overdose on, I kept my head on straight. You know, I... I really, really got into this thing. But it was a week before that, that, you know, the whole nine yards of, you know, deliverance from possession happened, you know, with the ministry team being called over. And I didn't get into that story on the other podcast. There is a million things in that that happened. You know, we watched it. We, they watched it. It happened. Everybody who wasn't right, who wasn't living right. And that's another thing. It's beyond human ability. I don't know those things. It called all of their sin out and said, you can't cast me out. Don't even try. Don't even try. Don't lay your hand on me. And it looked at one and laughed and said, are you done? You and I both know you have no power here. I saw you taking shots with your friends from the world at that party last week. I was there. I saw you. I didn't know I was there, but I saw you. And you can't cast me out because you're for it with me when no one's watching. I mean, like real deal, you know, stuff that nobody, I didn't know. You know, so there's a whole, there's a whole nother story. of things in there that happened that are forever etched into my memory. And that's just a token of remembrance.

SPEAKER_04: 2:07:39

I definitely would love to have you back to talk about that because I think that's another issue that there's a lot right now of deliverance ministry on YouTube. Yeah, yeah. I think it can be simple, and I think it can be complex, both. It depends on the person. But really quick, you must have reached a point where you were ready to become delivered. You were ready to seek the Lord.

SPEAKER_01: 2:08:16

Yeah. You know, I'm not sure where I land on that. even there will come a point where God won't even override free will. And sometimes he will, you know, sometimes he will. And I do believe true deliverance requires that vessel to be fully surrendered. I'll be honest. I, and people might shoot me full of holes for this. If I sense deliverance, that somebody is unrepentant and they don't want to be delivered, I could force the devils out. I could cast them out. But I probably won't because the Bible says that when that happens, when an unclean spirit has gone out of a man, it goes through dry places, seeking rest, finding none.

SPEAKER_02: 2:09:13

And

SPEAKER_01: 2:09:14

it'll come back to where it was cast out of. And if it finds it already, you know, if it finds its home just like the way it left ready for it, it'll find

SPEAKER_03: 2:09:22

that

SPEAKER_01: 2:09:24

seven more sinister. That's a whole nother subject. People think all devils are the same. No, there's a hierarchy. He said, I will find. There's a hierarchy. He said, I'll find seven spirits that are more sinister than me. They're nastier. They're dirtier. They're deadlier. They're worse than I am. And the Bible says in the condition of the man is worse than it was in the former. And so the person has to be ready. Sure, we have the authority. I can cast it out. No problem. It'll take about two seconds. But if they're not ready, and if that's another thing, they've got to be ready to be filled.

SPEAKER_05: 2:10:02

With the Holy Ghost, right.

SPEAKER_01: 2:10:03

With the Holy Ghost.

SPEAKER_05: 2:10:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:10:05

Because if there's a vacant house, I could cast it out. If they're not filled with the Holy Ghost that night or that day... It's going to be bad because that spirit will come back. It will. The Bible says it will come back. It's going to come back to its home because that was its home or its house. It was there for a little bit. It lodged. And if so, anyways, but yeah, there came a point I was ready and that is what allowed the forfeiture of that spirit. And God filled me with the Holy Ghost and rest is history.

SPEAKER_04: 2:10:44

Praise the Lord. Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 2:10:46

So

SPEAKER_04: 2:10:47

what do you think the church, where do you think the opportunities for the church to grow in are in the depth of the spirit and in helping people get free in a greater capacity? Where do you think the opportunities are for the church body? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:11:13

Yeah. You know, this is, This is just what I've seen in my tenure. And a lot of people aren't going to like this, but that's fine by me. The greatest asset is... It's like I want to shake some people and say, just live right. It might not be as visceral as... My story as it looking at that guy saying, you can't cast me out, you were taking shots. But if somebody comes up to the altar with some oppressions and you lay hands on them and nothing happens, it might not have said it out loud. There was a statement made that you didn't have the authority to take care of it for whatever that reason is. And the fact that people are unbothered by that The fact that people are unbothered by that is probably what they need to take some introspection on. Like, why? Man, that person came up bound, and when I laid hands on him, nothing happened. Well, the Bible says that it's supposed to.

SPEAKER_04: 2:12:29

And I think the assumption is that if we have the name of Jesus and we have the Holy Ghost, that we have the authority, and if nothing is happening... It's not because I don't have authority. It's because they're unwilling. And so, yeah, I feel

SPEAKER_01: 2:12:52

you. I've learned that that is very rarely the case. It's just what I've learned. I've learned that that is very rarely the case because I've learned my Holy Ghost will override any demonic activity. And if it's not, then I don't have the Holy Ghost like I think I've got. I don't have the Holy Ghost the Bible says.

UNKNOWN: 2:13:12

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 2:13:13

If some spirit has the ability to override my influence when I laid my hand on somebody's head and there is not an emotional shift, a mental shift, there's not a shift that takes place. If I don't exercise authority over that and I don't assert myself in a dominant position spiritually over whatever they're going through, something's wrong. Because the Bible says that he's the firstborn of all creation. Everything's underneath his feet. And so if there is a power imbalance and we're below the adversary, that's what's going to happen is we're going to lay hands and nothing's going to happen. Now, there are, of course, there are caveats to this subject.

SPEAKER_02: 2:13:55

lack

SPEAKER_01: 2:13:56

of faith. Some people are unwilling. I'm not saying that's never the case. But I've learned most of the time the case is there is some pattern of either unrepentant sin or we've gotten out of the prayer closet. We don't fast like we should. We don't read like we should. We're not in our spiritual disciplines like we should be. And so we forfeit the power that really does belong to us. And the fact that we're comfortable, we're just okay with it. And that's what some people are And it's easier for them to just write it off and have some cognitive dissonance like, oh, it's just their fault. Surely not me. No, I'm perfect. You know what I'm saying? Maybe I'm wrong on that. That's just what I've seen.

SPEAKER_04: 2:14:38

You've probably seen much more than I've seen. And I was just curious, do you feel that your ministry has... Do you carry a particular burden in your ministry? I assume for the lost, that's just part of the evangelistic territory. But do you feel like your ministry has a particular message, a particular burden that it carries overall? Do you feel like you're for the minister to the saints for growth? That's

SPEAKER_01: 2:15:16

really... Yeah, yeah, strangely enough, I do have a burden for the people of God for whatever reason. And God, I wrote it down. I can pull it up. It is the oldest word God ever, the first word God ever spoke to me. And it was out of Exodus 1. And it is way deep into my nose. I can't even find it, but it is the first thing I ever wrote down. And God spoke to me and he says, come now and I will send thee unto Pharaoh to deliver my people out of Egypt. And I remember that was the first time God ever spoke to me. And I think my mission is he has allowed me to see the Pharaoh in our age and he's allowed me to confront him head on. And for whatever reason, God is saying, I need, Ethan, I need you to deliver my people from underneath Pharaoh's oppression. And that has been for whatever reason, you know, I, I, I thought, you know, I'd have a real burden for the addicts and people who were, you know, oppressed by the demonic. Thank you. Whatever reason, like me, for whatever reason, I have this, the DNA of my ministry is commitment. It is commitment. The people of God, you've got to get this thing right. You've got to, we've got to get this thing right. Because if the body is not healthy, we can't properly harvest. If we don't have, we can't pull people into a dysfunctional body. We've got to

SPEAKER_04: 2:17:18

have this

SPEAKER_01: 2:17:19

thing down pat.

SPEAKER_04: 2:17:20

We're not keeping

SPEAKER_01: 2:17:21

them functional. Right. They're coming in,

SPEAKER_04: 2:17:24

but we're losing them. We're

SPEAKER_01: 2:17:26

losing them. We've got to pull them into a healthy environment that is functional, that's powerful, that's anointed, that's God-driven and purpose-driven and kingdom-minded. But there are pharaohs in this culture that have risen up and have oppressed the people of God and they don't even realize it. But I think it has taken somebody with my background where I can see the hand of the enemy behind the scenes and I'm like, wait a minute. I've seen this before. I know this spirit. So what do you think it is? And they're deceived by it,

SPEAKER_04: 2:18:03

though.

SPEAKER_01: 2:18:04

They're deceived

SPEAKER_04: 2:18:06

by it. The pharaohs don't realize they're acting in that role.

SPEAKER_01: 2:18:11

They have no idea. They have no idea. But there will come a point, and this is one of my favorite passages in the Bible, where Moses began to multiply miracles. And Pharaoh looked and said, yeah, well, my magicians can do the same thing. And it reached a point, I believe it was the fourth plague. It was the plague of lice, and that was either the fourth or fifth, where the magicians threw their hands up and says, hey, boss, we can do some things. They said, this is the finger of God. And I think... We've been satisfied with little magicians who can do so much. But if we want the things we really want, we're going to have to say, we're going to have to leave Pharaoh and his magicians and say, that's not going to cut it anymore. But if we want to see the next level of God's power, there's going to have to be a change somewhere. Because those magicians can only do so much. Sure, they could bring frogs up. They could turn water into blood. They could do a lot of things that are visually appealing.

SPEAKER_05: 2:19:28

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 2:19:28

But it comes a point where there's a forfeit. Like, hey, I can only do so much, but that's going to take another level. And I think that's where the church has reached is we've been entertained by, and I hate to call them magicians, but that's what they are. We've been entertained by magicians who have bowed to Pharaoh and And they're saying, hey, Pharaoh's more important than God. And I know if I'm with Pharaoh, I've got like a third or fourth of the power. I might not have all 100%, but I've got a little bit of it. And I'm cool with that. I'm cool with turning water to blood. I'm cool with every now and then. But I think we've reached a point where if we want to really see the deliverance, we want to see the harvest, we want to see we are in that age where now God is saying, okay, but this is what my people are going to start doing. And I think that's when the world is going to realize, whoa, they're going to realize who's with God and who's not. Because it's like, wait, the people of God should be doing these things. They should be acting this way. They should be walking in this demonstration. But I think, because I think now there was an imbalance, but I think that the people of God are catching up. And I think it's reaching that tipping point.

SPEAKER_05: 2:20:45

It was like here. I think so. But

SPEAKER_01: 2:20:48

I think it's even now. It's even. I might even say overall we're climbing above the magicians now, and they're starting to see things. I could go on and on about stories of people I know that people wouldn't even believe them. I know a guy who God spoke to him in the middle of service, and he looked at that guy and said, God just spoke to me. And he said, if you'll give that money that's in that envelope in your pocket, he'll bless you. And the guy looks around and he said, oh, you don't believe me. He said, you think I'm just guessing. He said, it is not just an envelope. It is your tax return that you haven't even opened yet. And since you haven't opened it yet, I'm going to prove to you that this is the hand of God. I'm going to tell you how much it is to the cent. And the guy ended up giving it and getting He got a raise. It was a whole story. But things like that that are undeniable, that are bona fide, gifts of the Spirit, miracles that cannot be replicated, that take true commitment. I think we're reaching a point where the world's going to start to see that, realize it, notice it, and make a decision.

SPEAKER_04: 2:22:02

Yeah. Well, I'm going to definitely have you on again if you're willing. Absolutely. Absolutely. I always end with two questions. And that is, sorry, I love what you just said. And I want to just acknowledge that because I jumped right into what my final question was. But yeah, I'm so hopeful. I feel like there is a level of expectancy, like we are crossing over. Something in the spirit that is really changing. And I know there is a church here in Visalia where we've been really pushing in that. I think there's a lot of hungry people that just want more of the Lord. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01: 2:22:49

absolutely.

SPEAKER_04: 2:22:51

So final questions. What would you say to the backslider who's still out there who might be facing the ocean they're afraid to cross or... get tripped up on all of the standards. There's a lot of that because they don't understand some of the things you express, but that's where they're living. It's a reality of where they're at. What would you say to the backslider that's out there? I

SPEAKER_01: 2:23:20

would say to the backslider, very simple, come home. You know you're not home. You might be at a house, but you know it's not home. There's only a certain feeling home can produce. You just come home. And I know it's not easy. It's never easy. But I look at it like when God told me to walk across that, you know, I couldn't stay where I was. I knew that. So it was either I had to make a decision regardless. Why not make the right one? I could either make a decision to stay where I am Or I could make another decision and just choose to go home. And either way, I'm going to end up making the decision. So I decide I'm going to make the right one. And, you know, it might, it might, I've learned God will give, he gives grace. And what we think is impossible. I've, I mean, like I know it's already been, over two hours, but I could go on and on about stories of people who thought taking that first step was impossible, but the grace of God made it to where they could make it home safe and sound way, way healthier and better than they ever thought they could make it home. Because God's got a way of doing stuff like that. Just come on home.

SPEAKER_04: 2:24:51

And to the parent who has a child or spouse that's backslidden, what would you say to them?

SPEAKER_01: 2:24:56

Yeah. I'd tell them the same thing, almost the same thing the angel told my mama. Don't stop praying. Don't stop praying. It might not be devils. It might be devils. I think regardless, the commandment is still the same. Mama, don't stop praying.

UNKNOWN: 2:25:20

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01: 2:25:21

And because that angel, what was funny is he singled out that parent, he singled out my mother. Had it been my fault, I think he would have singled out my father. But he singled out that parental figure. So if it's a mother or if it's a father, don't stop praying. If even that angel in heaven knows the prayers of a parent matter, hell knows too. It does something in the spirit. It pushes something back or it pulls something down. There's something happening when a mama or a daddy starts to pray over their lost loved one. I'm telling you, there's something that happens. There's a grace that starts to flow. There's angels that start to move. God starts to move. And so I just say, mama, daddy, don't stop praying. It might look ineffective, but don't stop praying.

UNKNOWN: 2:26:14

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04: 2:26:15

Well, thank you so much. Thank you so much. I mean, this conversation blessed me tremendously. And I know it's going to bless all who listen. And I'm going to pray for you. And I hope that you can come here at some point. I know we definitely need the ministry. I think what you understand, what you've experienced is uncommon at large times. I think, to the body and maybe just a different level. I don't know. But I'm really, really glad for, I'm grateful for the work that God has done in you. And I'm excited to see how your future unfolds. You're so young, yet you have a whole future ahead of you. And I just really honor you and thank you so much for being with me. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01: 2:27:11

Oh, thank you so much. It is an honor to be here in the show. I know it did take some turns. I have been diagnosed with ADD, if you can tell. And so I am all over the place. That's just the way my brain works. So I hope that was okay. I hope I didn't get off topic, but it's such an honor to share with you and to be here. And yeah, I'd love to... to do a second one

SPEAKER_04: 2:27:44

yes I'm going to follow up because I want to nail down absolutely some very specific topics and I think it flowed well I think you said everything that I needed to hear and I know our audience needed to hear and you gave enough of your history for us to know where you came from without all of the down and dirty details so thank you it was beautiful and I I'm very happy to know you. I'll be in touch for sure. God

SPEAKER_01: 2:28:15

bless you. And bless you, sister. Bless you.

SPEAKER_00: 2:28:17

We are so glad you joined us. If you have a story of redemption or have worn the label of a backslider, we would love to hear from you. If you'd like to support our ministry, your donation will be tax deductible. Visit our website at kathychastain.com. We hope you will tune in for our next episode.