The Redeemed Backslider
“Welcome to The Redeemed Backslider—with your host, Kathy Chastain, Christian-based psychotherapist and a redeemed backslider. This podcast dedicated to those who have wandered but are ready to return to the life-changing power of grace and the freedom found in Jesus.
In Luke 4:18, Jesus proclaimed: ‘The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because He has anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed.’
This is the heart of our message. Whether you’re wrestling with regret, despair, seeking freedom from spiritual chains, or longing to see the light of God’s love again, you’re not alone. Here, we share testimonies, biblical truths, and encouragement to remind you that no one is too far gone for God’s redemption.
This is your invitation to find healing, hope, and restoration in Jesus. Welcome to The Redeemed Backslider—where grace is greater than your past and your future is abundant when God redeems your story.”
The Redeemed Backslider
From Possessed to Preacher: Part 2- Rev. Ethan Logsdon
In this Episode, Rev. Ethan Logsdon walks us through more principles of spiritual warfare. He discusses how the enemy works against us, and the power of the name and the blood of Jesus. The Lord has given him wisdom to articulate what he has learned since Jesus delivered him from demon possession and called him into the ministry to the gospel.
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Kathy has two books out and they can be found on Amazon or Barnes & Noble online:
Redeem California, With God it IS Possible:
God of the Impossible: 30-Prayers for the Redemption and Restoration of California
Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider with your host, kathy Chastain. Christian-based psychotherapist and Redeemed Backslider. This podcast is dedicated to those who have wandered but are ready to return to the life-changing power of grace and the freedom found in Jesus.
:Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider. I'm your host, kathy Chastain. I am a licensed Christian-based psychotherapist and a redeemed backslider. Joining me today, from Texas, is Reverend Ethan Logsdon. You may remember him from a previous episode we recorded where he shared his story, but I enjoyed talking with him so much that I really wanted to have him back and go over a little more content about spiritual warfare and some of the things that we covered in the last episode, but really wanted to dive deeper into the things that we struggle with as Christians on our journey and how the enemy works against us. So he was gracious and agreed to come back. So thanks for being here, brother Logsdon, and welcome.
:Absolutely. I'm so honored and glad I could do it. I'm looking forward to it. I read over the topics you sent. I went over them again last night and the Lord actually started to deal with me about a few of them, so I'm actually really excited for today.
:Oh good, Me too I've been really emotional this week, so I might cry several times. That's all right, it's just the witness right of the Holy Ghost.
:Like you, say often when you minister. But I wanted to tell you a testimony, and it's not about the podcast and how good it's doing, but really what it's meant for is to reach people. And so after your podcast aired someone that I know, I've known her around. We would see each other at different places, we had common friends, but she was never one to really text message me out of the blue for any reason.
:I used to text her about my dogs, way back when she worked for the vet. But anyways, she texted me and told me how much your testimony meant to her and when you said, just come back home, what that really meant. And so she asked a few questions and she had started going to a church. She was feeling a little lost in, but anyways, I invited her to church and didn't really say much more. I just wanted to let her know whatever questions she had. Whatever I could do to help, I'd be there to help. Wanted to let her know whatever questions she had. Whatever I could do to help, I'd be there to help.
:And then so, after your mom's episode launched, the first thing she said was what time is church on Sunday? Oh, that's awesome. And so it was. It. Just, I think both of your guys' combined just really ministered to her. And so on Sunday she came and before church even started, she was just weeping. Oh, that's awesome. And the Lord has just really been present with her and talking to her and her heart is just open. It's just beautiful to see what God is doing. It's just beautiful. So I wanted to tell you I was so excited just to see the fruit of it come through.
:So, anyways, she's very happy and God's doing the work and I'm excited about what else he's going to do. Yeah, that's awesome, yeah. So today I sent you for the audience. I sent him a list of questions. I really wanted to feel after what the Lord might want us to share, and and so I thought we could open with agreements. I don't think agreements was in my list, but I do believe talking about the power of words is, and so I wanted to ask what are the spiritual implications of agreements? And I made some notes. Did you ever hear about or see the movie Nefarious that came out a couple of years ago?
Speaker 3:I heard about it. I never watched it though, no, but there was a stir about it, right?
:Yes, it was written by a Christian. I thought there was yeah okay. Yeah, yes, it was written by a Christian. I thought there was yeah, okay yeah, yeah.
:It was written by a Christian and I cried about that movie for like two weeks after I saw it because the spiritual implications of it was devastating, I thought. But for the audience who hasn't seen it and I don't know, Brother Logsdon, maybe you could give a caveat about being careful who watches it. But it was written by a Christian to illustrate demon possession. But the demon is speaking through this guy who is on death row. A therapist comes in to validate whether or not this person is in his right mind to take the death penalty. But here's what the demon said, which is why I wanted to start with agreements and words. He says the demon is speaking. He says we cannot just possess someone. We need a series of yeses. We offer up a series of temptations, gradually increasing in the terms of duration, intensity and grave moral inequity.
:The absence of baptism, in this case of the boy he possessed, allowed us to begin the work long before the age of reason, at the age of three, At the age of five. The death of a toy car can do a great deal to the emotions. Then we go on to bigger and better things. The gift of a Ouija board by a grandmother at the age of eight gave us access to his decision making. So we begin to steer him without ever calling into question who is doing the steering.
:Calling into question who is doing the steering enough yeses and a few no's gave us the rights over the victim and his physical and mental process. Through each new level, there are stages, each with its own name and characteristics um graduating into extreme temptation, obsession, infestation, possession, ultimately to subject sub subjugation. And I know for the audience that might be too much information, but I brought that up because it hit me so much how the innocence of a kid, how the enemy is already beginning to steer them, and agreements that we make unaware and unintentionally. So I'm going to let you just dive into that wherever you want, absolutely.
Speaker 3:So it is a lot of. That is very true. People don't the way. I can't remember I was talking with somebody recently about the subject of demonic possession and what people don't understand. What possession means is I have you.
Speaker 3:So it is when the human will can be at I don't know 60% and demonic can be at 40. The moment the scales tip to 51, 49 is when you've become possessed. It means that they have you in their control. Now it's not going to be like most of the time, it's not like the demoniac at Gadara. You're not going to see them, you know, ripping their clothes off and acting crazy. Ripping their clothes off and acting crazy, it just means to be possessed, means at any moment, if they wanted to do something through you, they could. They just have you in their possession. It doesn't mean that they live out every ambition that they have through you. It means that they do control you, and so that does take a series of and I think we talked about this last time the process of manifestation before something can, and so those two processes about.
Speaker 3:You know, and that's the way I've always looked at it, you know some people might not agree, but you know, as far as percentages within the human will and how it can be affected by certain factors. For example, an addict. When somebody is addicted to a substance, there is something chemical going on in their brain Disregard the spirituality there is something that's going on within their chemistry that makes them desire and crave a certain substance, and if their body doesn't receive it, it will throw them into withdrawal. So to say that that person has full control over their will, sure, but to say that it's not influenced would be a lie. And so all of those factors contribute to possession. Possession is not instant, it has to be a process of manifestation, and it's the same way with Christ.
Speaker 3:I hate to say that. You know it's. It's the. The enemy will mock things that belong to the kingdom of God. So it is not that the Holy Ghost possesses you, but you know, when you're controlled by the Holy Ghost is when he can do whatever he wants through you at any moment. It doesn't mean he jerks you around like a rag doll, it doesn't mean. But if your will is on the altar and it's God's will 51 to 49, that means at any moment God can pull your card and say I want you to do this, I want you to go here, I want you to say this and you obey, and so it's the same principle, or the same concept, in a way. And so, yes, they do need a series of big yeses which begin to shift the human will, and the reason it's difficult is because the book of Hebrews said that there needs to be the death of a testator in order for a will to take place.
Speaker 3:So, Jesus had to die in order for the second covenant to be born. Well, I think there's a principle within Hebrews. Some people might disagree, but I do believe there needs to be a death in order for another will to be born, and what that means is for us is we need to die out to ourselves in order for the will of God to be born, which is the old man. I'm sorry.
:That's the old man dying, that's the old man Right.
Speaker 3:So the new man can rise, so the new man can rise, and the enemy will work in the same way. He wants death in a certain area. He wants you to die out to certain disciplines, he wants you to die out to certain thought processes or in order that a new will might be birthed. And here's what's difficult.
:Boy, that's powerful.
Speaker 3:And some people are going to understand what I'm talking about. The Bible says let the mind that was in Christ be in you. Be not conformed to the image of this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind. It tells us to put on Christ, and there's all of these. Remember, we talked in the last episode about manifesting the qualities and characteristics of Jesus so that we become more like him. People are going to know what I'm talking about when I say this. You can die out to your will so much that your will becomes it feels almost seamless with the will of God, and you have no idea if it is you just deciding to take a step or if the Lord is ordering them. And so your behavior becomes so seamless with God if you fall into alignment and let certain things die. It's the same way for the other side.
Speaker 3:You can enter into such a place of alignment with the other side that you think these are your behaviors, you think you're the one doing this, but you've got no idea. You are living out and serving the will of something else, and so by doing that, you are surrendering your free will. And by surrendering your free will, I mean you are choosing to place your free will behind the will of something that's not of God, and so by doing that, you're choosing to say yes to something. You're choosing to say yes to the disciplines of hell.
Speaker 3:There's a guy I've been working on for a really, really long time and he just can't seem to get some of these things down. And he called me one day and he said Ethan, you think if I died today I'd go to hell? And I said man, I'll be honest, I'm nobody's judge. I said, but if I were to judge you by the standard of the word, I would say yes. I said and I don't say that to condemn you, I say that to hopefully wake you up. I said because you can't live like hell and expect to go to heaven, and so when people begin to, I hate. You know, I'm hesitant using the word manifest because it sounds so new age, but I mean it's a biblical word. So when people begin to manifest characteristics of hell, that is what is in charge of them.
Speaker 3:Right, that's what you are to the image. That's the image.
Speaker 4:They're conforming to the image and we are supposed to conform to the image like they're starting. That's the image Like you said.
:Yeah, they're conforming to the image, and we are supposed to conform to the image of Christ. See I love it, because we've heard these scriptures our whole life, growing up in church, but never really understanding the depth of them, until we have these sort of examples, you know, to make sense of it or to bring it into, I don't know, experiential place maybe.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, but that's you know, there's some truth element to it. I remember the moment where my full possession took place. I can take you to the spot it happened. I remember I drove home and I remember I backed my car up to the tree line and we had just had a flood. So my car was pointing toward the FEMA trailer that they had while they were building the house. I remember my car was pointing toward the FEMA trailer that they had, you know, while they were building the house. I remember my car was pointing toward it and I remember I had the. I had blue lights on the interior of my car. I remember the blue hue and everything.
Speaker 3:And I just remember I mean it was so overwhelming, you know we talk about when the hand of God rests on us, and it's so overwhelming, you know. You know without a shadow of a doubt, that the Lord is somewhere, you know, very present, and that same thing, but the other way happened and I was like this is strange and I mean I remember it like it was yesterday. All it said was let me have control. And I remember. But this request felt different, like there were other times I'd never heard its voice very prominent, and it wasn't like I didn't hear it in my ear. It wasn't like it was like an impression. It's the same way the Lord speaks to me it's an impression and it's a statement that just it's like, it's like it's inserted I
Speaker 3:didn't think it. Yeah, and I didn, and I didn't hear it with natural ears, but it just let me have control and I stopped. You could feel the weight. I could feel the weight behind the statement. You know there are some things that are said carelessly and there are some things you know like, no, there's some intent behind that. I knew like it felt severe but, I'll be honest, I didn't know what it meant. I was like what does that mean? But I kid you not. I remember when I said, okay, go ahead. I mean I remember it like it was yesterday. It was scary. It felt the only way I can explain it. It felt like have you ever seen the finger puppeteers where they have the hooks around their fingers?
Speaker 3:and the strings and they can make things. It felt like strings were attached to limbs in this thing. Pick me up, not like off the ground, I mean like it, it's like like it, my, my, my, I mean I'm. I turned the car off, I opened up the door. But I mean, I turned the car off, I opened up the door, but I mean it was like I was in co-pilot, like it felt like it was. It was surreal, to say the least Walked me into the bed, laid me down, I went to sleep, woke up, everything was completely normal again, but it was at that moment my will crossed over that 50-50 and into 49. Because there was an aspect.
Speaker 3:I gave over. I said yes. Right, I said yes.
:Because the Lord talks to us that way too. There's been times in my life where he has come to me and asked me, and I've always said yes to him. But I know, like you, just know when the Lord is asking you. He gives us a choice. We had an old evangelist used to come through that always would say God is a gentleman, he's a gentleman.
Speaker 3:He's a gentleman.
:He's not going to make you do anything against your will. And so, because I think some agreements are subconscious agreements, right, like you know, when you sing along to music or you, you know, watch violence or you know all of that kind of stuff, I think some of those are subconscious, but they're still. I don't know, I'd like your opinion but for you to hear that and know that you made a conscious choice to say yes and completely out of ignorance, right.
Speaker 3:Right, it was out of ignorance.
:You didn't know really the depth.
Speaker 3:People don't understand the spirit realm thrives off of obedience. People don't understand the spirit realm thrives off of obedience. God desires obedience and the enemy also desires obedience, and disobedience is obedience to the other side, and that's what people don't understand. When you're disobedient to the will of God, you're being obedient to something else. There's no, I don't know if there is. It's a very, very thin line of amorality, of neutral ground. If there is neutral ground, it is very, very thin. Most of the time you're making a decision that leans you left or it leans you right, and that's what people don't understand, right?
:The Bible says we either live to God and hate the other master when it's talking about the two masters, or we live to the one and and hate the other, yeah, so it seems like there really is no middle ground.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is.
:And most people don't live their life with that sort of idea in mind that they are living for someone, even if they're unaware of it.
Speaker 3:Right, even if they're unaware. And you know, people say, well, I've heard people say, well, those weren't my intentions. Well, actions speak far louder than words and they speak far louder than intentions. You know, Saul might have had the right intentions. Saul said, no, I might have had the right intentions. Saul said, no, I wanted to sacrifice to the Lord. Well, you were in disobedience, and obedience is better than sacrifice. You might have tried to sacrifice with the right intentions, but that's not what God said to do.
Speaker 3:And so when the enemy looks and you know, that's why I'm such a big, you know, I'm a big proponent on we have to watch what we watch, what we entertain, and there's a whole. It's not a message I preach, it's if I'm feeling something, I'll go in and I'll talk about the Hebrews passage where it references entertaining angels unaware, and I'll go in and I'll hit this a little bit. But what people don't understand is, like media things we scroll and pause on. I think our algorithm says a lot about us. It says a lot about what we pause on, what we find intriguing and entertaining. And somebody said it like this, and I've never thought about movies the same way, like I'm very, very careful with what I watch Very careful. Somebody said it like this when you watch a movie, you allow things to take place in your home that you would never allow to take place in your home.
:Right Right, infidelity affairs violence.
Speaker 3:And so when a spirit comes by and sees that and then on Sunday you're like, oh no, I'm against adultery, I'm against fornication, I'm against all this stuff. And it's going to look and say, well, you're letting it in your home. Monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday, saturday, your actions are speaking for you and the spirit and they're saying, no, you're welcoming those things and your private life speaks far greater than your public. And so those are those subtle agreements that we make with the enemy. And I mean he does have an eye on our private life and people aren't aware of that. He knows what we watch, he knows what we scroll through, he knows what makes us tick. And I remember you know some people aren't going to like this, but that's okay.
Speaker 3:I never got in this thing to be like God. I had a dream years ago and I was in the foyer of a church and, long story short, god pulled me out into the. I was in the sanctuary, pulled me out to the foyer of the church. There's this old man, suit and tie, sitting in a leather chair, and he looked like he was kind of. I mean, to be honest, I thought he was not dead, but nearing death. I mean he was in the chair, drooling on himself and everything, and he had a little desk by him with a leather-bound journal, and so I remember I walked over and I opened up the journal. I said, you know, he's probably not going to need this anymore. And in the dream I started to read it and I think the Lord shielded my mind from it for a reason. But I remember in the dream I was able to process the information and I was like this is kind of crazy, like the revelation that this guy has. I've never heard stuff like this before. He's talking about intricacies in the spirit and all of these different. All of a sudden, I get to a page that has my name on the top and it's got bullet points. When he wakes up and does this, if he wakes up and says this. If he wakes up and texts this person, if he wakes up and goes these places, attack with this, do this, use this, lay this trap. If he does this, back off. If he does this, send this spirit in. I mean it isn't.
Speaker 3:And I remember I felt a. You know there are different witnesses we feel when it comes to being sensitive to the spirit world in an entirety, and I felt such a demonic witness. I remember I dropped the book and I said this is a manual on how to attack me. And I look at that man and he's no longer, you know, looking like he's about to die, just depressive. He's looking up at me, smirking, and I was like, oh, that's not a man at all. It was a trick. And little did I know. That dream spoke volumes. I was lured. At a young age I thought that this guy was you know. I was like, hey, this is hidden knowledge. And all of a sudden there's a hook in it. And so that dream and it served as an example itself, where God was saying, hey, the enemy knows what makes you tick. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I don't say this to glorify the devil, but I think we in the church we downplay him a lot. We can't be foolish. He knows what he's doing. He's been doing this for thousands of years. He knows humans, and if we think he don't know us, we're wrong. We are wrong, and so that's why it is so important, like Peter said, be sober, be vigilant for your adversary. The devil walketh about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. I've heard people say well, he roars because he doesn't have any teeth, and I heard a preacher say it like this. He said well, go ahead and stick your head in the devil's mouth and see if he don't bite down on you. The Bible says he's seeking who he can devour, not who he can intimidate and so that's what people don't know.
Speaker 3:He knows what we watch and things of that nature. So I try not to make those subtle agreements in private, because I want authority in public.
:Right, right, but I think you know with what's troubling. What's always troubling to me is what is in the church. Like that, in your dream the man was in the church in your real life.
:You know, uh, the guy who lured you into the occult was in the church and that is disturbing in and of itself. But I think it just is an example of how we are very unaware in our discernment about the spirit realm and I don't know why that is in our I don't know. I don't want to speak for our organization worldwide, but it feels like we don't push into seeking after the deeper things of the Lord to really get rid of depression. Because that agreement, I think there's real depression the Lord wants to deliver people from. Like really get rid of depression. Because that agreement, you know, I think there's real depression the Lord wants to deliver people from. But I also think there's agreements with that, you know, because we're not looking at things through the spiritual lens.
:We're just looking at things because we can diagnose it, because we have a scientific data on it it means that somehow it's not spiritual, but I think it's always spiritual.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, I had. Some of the listeners might know him. Bobby Wade helped me out with something a while back and I remember I called him one day and there was just this heaviness that had settled on me one day and I was just there was just this heaviness that had settled on me and I remember I was walking through Walmart and just everybody was agitating me. She said I should look at them and I just got angry and I was like this isn't you know, this isn't right. I remember I called him, I said man, I just I don't know what it is. And you know only the way, bobby Way could. He said, brother Lockston, you know, everything you feel isn't what you feel. And by when he said that it just kind of clicked. And he followed that up by saying everything you feel doesn't belong to you.
Speaker 3:And so sometimes we wake up and we feel things or we go into certain places and all of a sudden our mood changes, our emotions have a little swing. Our spirits, you know, sounds like they go quiet or our minds get foggy. Our spirits, you know, sounds like they go quiet or our minds get foggy. I've begun to realize those are indicators of certain underlying factors within that atmosphere, within certain individuals, within those churches. So I might wake up one day.
Speaker 3:If I woke up tomorrow and felt depressed, I ain't depressed, I know me, I know myself. I'm not saying I couldn't get into that state, but my life is not in such disarray right now that would cause me to be depressed. And that's not arrogant, that's knowing where I am in life, right, right, right. And so I can't reinforce that Right. I can't say, oh, because I woke up and all of a sudden, no chances are I'm going to come in contact with somebody that day or today that is struggling with that, and God wants me to know how they feel, so I can, so I can be empathetic and so I can, I can know where it is.
Speaker 3:They you know, and a lot of people don't. Really. They think, oh, I just feel, ok, that's mine. No, could it be that God is trying to introduce you to some personal gifts and introduce you to a spirit of ministry, and sometimes we just but that's the thing we don't stay sensitive enough or in the presence of God long enough to realize those things, because I was praying last night and the Lord just started to deal with me about you get, when you open yourself up to the entire, you know spirit world, you're going to not not schizophrenic, you're going to hear and see voices like there's going to be. The Bible says that the heavens declare as handiwork. The Bible says that creation groans. Yes, it does.
Speaker 3:There's going to be that you're going to pick up on so many different things. There's going to be the voice of our flesh. There's going to be the voice of other people's flesh. There's going to be, you know, that's. That's just kind of bouncing through. And what people don't understand is is the will of God, for our life has a certain and I hate using these words, it sounds new agey, but it's the only. For me, it's how it's how I understand it. I guess, coming from my background, that's why it does sound, you know, new age, but this is the way I understand it the, the, the, the will of God. It has, whatever you know deciphering through all this stuff, it has a certain ring to it, it's got a certain frequency, and so when I wake up and I've, I feel a certain way that I know is not mine, I can discern whether or not this is an attack or if it's the will of God. And what I mean by the will of God is there's something he wants to do through this.
:Through this right, right, Because it's got that certain feel to it.
Speaker 3:It's got. His voice. It's got his voice on the tail end.
:Sometimes it's a piece, sometimes it's a Even if it's conflict, you can have peace in that and knowing that-. Right, you know.
Speaker 3:It's got his fingerprints on it. Does that make sense? Yep, yep.
Speaker 3:Like. To me, the best explanation for discernment is I don't know if they do this anymore, but what they used to do to train federal bank tellers is they would bring them into a room and have them count US currency. And they would just have them count it day after day after day after day, day. And what's interesting is they didn't go into a vault and pull out every bit of counterfeit currency that they'd ever confiscated and said, hey, go through all of this. You got to memorize that this was made on this type of printer and was made with this type of material, and it was. They just had them count the real thing.
Speaker 3:So when they're out in the world and they're feeling money, all of a sudden, that they come across something, they're like, hey, I've been so close to the real thing, I'm so used to being around the real thing, I know what it feels like. And this ain't it. I might not be able to tell you where this kind of I can't tell you it came from Puerto Rico. I can't tell you any of that. I might not be able to pinpoint it, but I can tell you it's not the real thing.
Speaker 3:And so that's what I mean by it's got the fingerprints of God on it. There are some things you feel and you're like no, there's God's hand, his voice is on this. There's something about this that God wants me to pursue. This isn't mine and a lot of people.
Speaker 3:What they'll do is they'll begin to embrace that and let it become their identity, and then, there's a deadly I mean, I don't know spirit, call it what you want and you know the clinical word is hypochondriacs, where people it's a terrible, terrible disease right now, and I don't mean like, but people are they're running to social media for all of these different diagnosis and there's half-baked you know, intellectuals out there, you know, just spewing out nonsense just because they have the Instagram app on their phone and people cling to these sources as if they're, you know, reliable and proven.
Speaker 3:And then they'll look up all of these different and say, okay, if I'm depressed, I've got to exhibit these symptoms, and so if I'm, if I'm missing a few, and all of a sudden, you don't know, people don't understand, and I don't mean to get into, you know all of this deep stuff, but they, they are, I call it, brooding in the fourth dimension, and what that means is there's a moment when you step beyond the line of acknowledging something and you begin to entertain it, and so, all of a sudden, they're brooding on this thought, no longer in their mind but in their spirit, and this thought is oh, I'm depressed. And when they begin to brood on that in the fourth dimension, which is where the spirit realm is, it will begin to call out to certain things and they'll begin to embrace other If they go down the list if I'm depressed, I've got to act like this and I've got to live like this and subconsciously they begin to manifest those characteristics because that's what they're brooding on all day. And so you're right. There is a level of agreement and if people aren't careful, they will take on what they were never meant to take on.
Speaker 3:I know that was a lot, but I just wanted to.
:No, it was good, because I think when we talk about healing or, it's hard for people to really absorb that if they I think understanding agreement like you don't always feel it.
:People make agreements all day long without emotional input, just because it's their lifestyle or what they've been ingrained to do, you know um, but they still have a belief in that somewhere yeah you know, that might even be subconscious, but I think when we really start to believe what the Bible says, even if we're just taking it in faith, we may not have experience with it, but that word will also begin to manifest and take root, to where healing can really start to come into play.
:Yeah, healing it can really start to come into play. Yeah, but I think you know the agreement. I see it a lot in therapy, especially through intrusive thoughts that people really believe. I've had little kids, which is why that movie troubled me so much. I've had four year olds and five yearolds who are having all of these thoughts. They believe it's them and it's not, you know, because they're still fairly innocent at that age. But the enemy is already working on them and so, um, I think it. It comes through wounds, right, it comes through our brokenness, our hurts, our little toy that gets broken, our little crossword that gets said to us or we get spanked, and it hurts our heart, breaks our heart, and so all those little things, the enemy I heard one time that the enemy is an opportunist and he just comes in to take advantage of normal moments in life, of just growing up, right.
:But when, when you do have, when someone is really, I think, maybe destined to walk with God and to have ministry and to have a life in the Lord, the enemy really comes in at a very early age to try to disrupt it and weave in his little lies about their own identity.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely.
:So from there I guess we'll launch into words.
:In my email I wanted you to sort of unpack the spiritual implication of words, specifically how they are used to cast spells and how they are used for prayer. For prayer because, um, I had, uh, by mistake, this girl who came into church um a few years ago and, um, I was trying to help her. She needed a place to live and so I opened up my house to let her live there and the Lord was doing a work in her, but she had been a witch all her life and her family, her mother and her grandmother, had been a witch, which, you know, I didn't come from that, didn't know anything about that. But one day we were talking about prayer and she said well, that's exactly what spells are. Spell Se-l-l, that's a word you know, they're just words, and so I it really hit a light bulb and I begin to understand. I feel like, as a culture, prayer has been something that has been so flippantly said and used that we don't really understand the power of it, because we don't really understand the power of words.
:But I recently heard on a podcast that words never die and I don't know if that's true or not, but we know that Abel's blood spoke to the Lord from the grave and I know that life is in the blood. So we'll get to that. But I just wanted you to really talk about the spiritual implications of words and how that relates to agreement and what we are speaking over ourself all the time for positive or negative, but what the spirit world does with that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So part of my understanding of the spirit world is a lot of it. A lot of the spirit deals with what I call avenues, and every avenue will be anthropomorphic in nature, and what that means is the spirit is immaterial, and so the only way, every time we materialize or attempt to materialize the immaterial, it has to be done through anthropomorphic means. And for those who don't know anthropomorphic, I'm not trying to be superfluous Anthropomorphic means that we give human-like characteristics to something that might be, you know, something that's not human, like a phenomena or you know the spirit world, and the perfect example of this to me is in Exodus 33, where Moses asks the Lord to show him his glory and all of a sudden, god introduces what they academically call anthropomorphics. And God Yahweh looks at Moses and says no man can see my face and live. Hold on, he hasn't manifested to a human for the incarnation. God is a spirit. What do you mean? He can't see your face, you don't have a spirit. What do you mean? He can't see your face.
Speaker 3:You don't have a face, no man can see my face and live. But there is a place by me and I'll place you on the rock and I'll cover you with my hand. Well, hold on. The same thing applies. You don't have hands, you're a spirit. And he says and then I will take away mine hand you don't have hands, remember and you'll see my back parts, but my face will not be seen.
Speaker 3:And so that is what they call anthropomorphics. And so what that is is God is using human-like terms to relate something that's going on in the spirit. So that's why it says and it can even get not intentionally confusing, it just is, because every time we materialize the immaterial, it will lose essence. So the Bible says that the spirit of God is like water, says it's like fire, says it's like wind. Right, right, those are contrary elements, but that's God.
Speaker 3:God is saying there's, it's immaterial, but the way that you can understand it. And so that's an avenue, words are an avenue in the Spirit. It is like, you know, billy Cole, when he developed the word of faith by the authority of the word of God and by the power, that is, in the name of Jesus, of the Word of God and by the power that is in the name of Jesus. That is an avenue to exercise faith, like laying on of hands. That is an avenue to materialize the immaterial. And so words are the exact same way, but there must be substance somewhere, and what that means is you know, there's a talk in the world, there's a talk in the world, there's a phrase in the world where they say, oh, they're all talk, where it is literally just words.
Speaker 3:But then there are times where you said no, there was weight behind those words.
Speaker 4:They're speaking from a place of experience, you can feel it.
Speaker 3:I can say let there be light all day. I couldn't turn a light bulb on with that, but God had something backing up his words. So when he said let there be light all day, I couldn't turn a light bulb on with that. But God had something backing up His Word.
Speaker 3:So when he said let there be light there was authority behind it, and so people don't understand the damsel in divination. This is one of my favorite, favorite passages. She finds Paul and says these are the men sent by God to preach the way into salvation, and she follows him. The Bible says for three days, which in and of itself, that statement sounds okay.
Speaker 3:It sounds okay. Right, it sounds okay. And I've heard people say, oh, she was puffing up the man of God. No, that is literally what God spoke to Paul. It's not. And then the Bible says Paul, being grieved in his spirit, turned around and said come out of her. And so here's the revelation. Paul heard the right words coming out of the wrong spirit. I can sit in front of anybody and all of a sudden they can make a passive, aggressive remark and say I didn't mean it.
Speaker 4:But I felt the spirit underneath it. Yeah, does that make sense.
Speaker 3:So when people are sensitive. You know, like my mother says, oh, I'm going to kill you. I know she didn't mean it. Mm, hmm.
Speaker 3:But if some guy on the side of the road just all of a sudden, I'm going to kill you, there's a different, there's a spirit behind it, and so that is some people, and I'm going to get in trouble for this. I'll be honest, I think some, most people, don't pray, they just talk. Because true prayer has a weight behind it. Some people just like to bump their gums. True prayer when you get into the spirit of prayer, things happen. That is what Jesus meant when he said you know, you can say thou to the mountain, be thou removed and cast into the sea, and it shall be so. That is when you have something behind your words. You're not just talking. You're not just talking, you're not just and that's not saying if you find this key, you can just start moving mountains. No, it's got to be, there's an order of these things.
Speaker 3:But what he was saying was, if you can tap into what I'm saying, you can truly move things with your prayers. You can truly move things with your prayers. You can do some good, you can do some work if you know how to pray. And so people think that the walls of Jericho came down just through a shout. There was a daily walk. Behind the shout, behind the words, behind the— the shout was an avenue that that the walk was able to travel on. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3:Yes, yes and I hope people get that the shout was. Think of the shout as a road and think of the walking as the vehicle, that road, that that drives across this road to its destination. That's what words are. When I'm saying something, that's what people say oh, I feel the anointing. When you feel the anointing when somebody's speaking, their preaching is just the avenue for the Spirit of God to through the foolishness of preaching. God chose the foolishness of preaching to save them. That would believe. It's just an avenue. So words are the same, they're an avenue.
Speaker 3:You can give me a New Age witch who is loving all these fairies and all of this. I call it Disney witch stuff and since there's no real substance behind what she does, she's not going to do anything. And then I know another group of they call them blood witches who deal with the womb and all of this really dark stuff. But it's got real weight behind it and when they begin to operate the wrong spirit, stuff does happen. But you know they could be saying the same thing but there's nothing behind it and that's why some preachers it's just empty words, it's vain philosophy.
Speaker 3:But you can tell when somebody is truly not by the words but by what's behind the words. It's vain philosophy, but you can tell when somebody is truly not by the words but by what's behind the words. And so you know, some words can be flippant sometimes, but a lot of times if you just listen to people, you can pick up on what's underneath their words and you know, even if studies show. I don't have it on me right now, but I think it's only 20, and I might be generous by saying 20. 20% of received communication is verbal. Over 80% is nonverbal. So it's really the words are just the avenue, and so that's my, but then again somebody might have a different take on that. That's my take on words, but then again somebody might have a different take on that. That's my take on on words. Words can be powerful. Words can have the power of life and death if there's power behind them.
:Right, because you know we have the power to bless and curse and speak life and death. And you're right, belief is such a intangible thing, we can't see it, but we know it. So you know, speak to the negative talk that people say over themselves. You know how they are reinforcing what they actually believe and what's behind those words when they, you know, talk bad about themselves or walk in unbelief it may not be people say, well, I believe God can, I just don't know if God will. And so we hear that a lot.
:And just over their own identity and over their own life and feeling unworthy or feeling inequitous, or feeling as if they're not ever good enough like the weight behind those words, for them and how that reinforces the spirit realm.
Speaker 3:Sure, yeah. So some people they make flippant remarks and then others, you know you're like, you really do believe that about yourself. You know you hear some people. They say you know one lady's come into my mind and you hear her talk to herself all the time and a lot of it is very degrading and you know I used to think nothing of it but then you know it started to just something about. It just didn't sit right with me.
Speaker 3:And that verse out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh. The mouth is the avenue to transmit what's in the heart. That those words are just the avenue. So it's really they are giving voice to. And here's the thing I never looked at it like this. It doesn't say out of everything that's in the heart, out of the abundance of the heart. So what is a, what is a bounding, and what they're, what they're constantly? And so for me those words are a telltale sign, depending on, again, what you pick up on behind those words.
Speaker 3:Some people just say dumb stuff. Some people you're like, hmm, there's something to that, and then you can tell it's abiding and abounding in their hearts. And so what? People don't understand. It's like a vicious cycle. And then you think well, what came first, the chicken or the egg? I don't know. All I know is there's a chicken, and so finding the genesis is sometimes ineffective.
Speaker 3:But you do know they're caught in this pattern. Is it abounding in their heart because they're saying it, or are they saying it because it's abounding in their heart because they're saying it, or are they saying it because it's abounding in their heart? But I have learned when it's abounding in somebody's heart, they'll talk about it, and it's just this cycle. And so a lot of people you know I'm not trying to find the genesis of it, but I do know whether you know I'll say that one more time Are they constantly talking about it because it's abounding in their heart or is it abounding in their heart because they're constantly talking about it?
Speaker 3:That's the issue. We don't know, we don't know, and so I think it's very important to watch what you say. You know, james says bridle the tongue, it's the most unruly member of the body, and I think when people do that, they are signaling to the spirit world. They have a lack of self-control. I mean who you know, and I don't say this to discourage somebody who might be struggling with speaking negative things over their life. But the first time you read I'm sorry, I'm not sure if it's the first one of the first times you ever read about you know you read in the Old Testament and the anger of the Lord was kindled. Yes.
Speaker 3:One of the first times you read about that was actually toward Moses, and it was when God called Moses and said this is what I think of you. You're a deliverer, this is what I want. And Moses said I'm slow of speech, said this is what I think of you.
Speaker 3:You're a deliverer, this is what I want. And Moses said I'm slow of speech. And he kept saying it. And all of a sudden the Bible says that the anger of the Lord was kindled against Moses. And we don't understand. Sometimes, by us us speaking negative, we are, we are accidentally kindling the anger of the Lord, because the psalmist said we're fearfully and wonderfully made Genesis says that we're the only creature that was created in the image of God. In the image of God.
Speaker 3:yeah, and so when we do that, we are speaking negatively against the image of God, and that's what some people don't understand. It's the same concept within the five-fold ministry there's a human human that sits within a holy office, an imperfect human in a perfect office. We are imperfect people who have been given a perfect image, and that perfect image is the image of God. Now there's an image of carnality that has been added due to the fault, but the image of God that we were created in is perfect, and I don't know where that line, where the line of my humanity begins and the line of God's image ends, and I'm not surgical enough to get in there and speak so negatively. I might bump up against that image of God.
Speaker 3:And it's the same thing.
Speaker 3:That's why I say this about spiritual authority and pastors in the fivefold, when Nadab and Abihu offered strange fire before the Lord, the Bible says that the Lord sent a fire from heaven and consumed them and singed their bodies.
Speaker 3:But here's what's interesting the Bible said that God did not touch a single fabric on the priestly garments, because the office is perfect, the people weren't, and only God is sharp enough to correct the individual without touching what is holy, and we as humans aren't.
Speaker 3:And that's why we have to be careful about what we say about ourselves, because I never know when I'm actually going to bump up against that image of God and all of a sudden, does that make sense? That's the same way it deals with our interpersonal relationships too. I'm going to be careful about how I talk or view my sister, because I might bump up against that image of God and now I'm touching what is holy and that might invoke the judgment of the Lord, and so we're not the judgment of the Lord. It might call out to a certain spirit. There's no telling what it could do, but that's why I'm so careful about what I say about myself, about what I say about others, especially what I say about spiritual authority, because you never know when you're going to bump up against an image that is holy, and so when you do that to yourself, it can have detriments.
:And I think that's why the enemy attacks identity so much and people, because they are speaking against themselves, they're speaking against their own image, exactly what you said, and the enemy is using that, you know, um against them, but really kind of enjoying it because he does understand who they are created to be and who they are. And so would you call that blindness, like you know, you were talking about the addict before. Yeah, like once you become possessed by something I love, luke 4.18. I think that is our mandate as a church, you know, to bind up the brokenhearted. Yeah absolutely.
:For the Lord to open the eyes of the blind and set the captives free. And I look at that a lot like, because I think captives really requires a sovereign move of God to release them. They cannot release themselves Would you agree.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would, because I mean, I think, practicality, you know, unless there's a jailbreak by an individual, it's pretty. I mean, prison is prison for a reason You're not meant to get out. It's kind of outside of your control, unless there's an external force that is aiding you and helping you, you know. So I would agree with that. But to answer on something the Lord brought this to my memory, this is something I studied out with that. But to answer on something the Lord brought this to my memory, this is something I studied out months ago. You said the enemy knows how we're created, and he does, and most people I guarantee you, most people never noticed this In Genesis. This was the attack. So what he does is he comes in and he says the reason God doesn't want you to eat of this fruit is because he knows, in the day that he is thereof, you'll become like him. You're going to be like a god, we already were.
Speaker 3:Not the little god doctrine, but we were the only creature that was created in the image of God, the only creature. And Satan knew that and he says you're going to be like God if you do this. And all of a sudden he got Eve chasing something that was already hers it's a lie.
Speaker 3:It was a lie Right. He got her chasing an identity that she really already had in Christ or in God, and that is typically the trick of the enemy he will get somebody to chase an identity that falls far beneath the identity that they have in God.
:Yes, yes, that's so good, so good. Okay, let's see how do we transition. So, when people believe a lie about their identity, when they do speak ill of themselves, ill of others, I mean, would you say, like, I think think about the blindness opening the eyes of the blind. Do you think that is um, like how would you conceptualize that? What all categories would that maybe fall into? When we're, when we're talking about the lost, or even saints, who are blinded to things that they really have access to through the Bible, through the Holy Ghost.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I think one of our biggest, the biggest blinder, I think within, not just our movement, I think within Christendom. Jesus is teaching and some Pharisees come up and they're asking questions and stuff, and Jesus had an interesting rebuke. He said you do err, not knowing the Scriptures, and then he spoke in the Old Testament my people perish from a lack of knowledge.
Speaker 3:I think the greatest blinders we have are the ones we put on ourselves. And so if we're not, if we refuse to educate ourselves on where we come from and who we are in God, and we're blinding ourselves and that just leads, it gives the enemy free roam to just deceive. And that is why I truly believe and this is not a defense for people who are spiritually abusive or manipulative but I think a lot of that junk could be cut out if our pews were more educated. But we have a culture that is so hype and emotion-induced that a preacher, as long as he hypes you up, he can slip in false doctrine and nobody will know it because it feels good, it's hype. Those are the blinders. If we're going to do anything for God and do anything in the Spirit, we've got to know the Right.
Speaker 3:That's where the enemy's going to attack. It's where he attacked Jesus.
:It's what's real Exactly. It's exactly where he attacked Jesus.
Speaker 3:That's exactly where he attacked Eve as well. It might trail off into attacking ideology and attacking characteristics, but it's always going to end back up. He's going to attack the Word somehow and twist the scripture.
:That's where it starts, it's where it ends. End back up.
Speaker 3:He's going to attack the Word somehow. That's where it starts, it's where it ends, that's where it starts and ends Every time he's going to attack and people don't know. That's what he does. In our own life, like we live, our Western society, we don't even understand this. We are built on some values that come from the Word, and so he undermines those. We think he's attacking political agendas. He's not. He knows that those political agendas are nested within principles that are found within the Word. And he says I'm trying to get to that Word and if I can get in that Word and dismantle it, I win. And so if we can get educated on the Word of God, his attacks will become much. That's why it says submit yourselves, therefore, unto God. Resist the devil and he'll flee. And if you submit to God, you're submitting to his word, because God's presence and God's word, they're inseparable, and I have scripture to back that up His presence and his word, they're inseparable.
:And that's just a choice. It's just whether you understand it or not. It's a decision that you make to submit to surrender Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, there is. That's why and I don't say this to offend any listeners, but that's why I have such a hard time understanding the Calvinist doctrine. I've studied it very thoroughly and I just don't understand it. Like a lot of their points are in conflict with just the overall human experience, not to mention the theological issues I have with it, but practicality. The theological issues I have with it, but practicality I mean how we watch humans behave and act every day. It kind of throws a wrench in this idea that there's no free will. That throws a wrench in this idea that saints aren't able to make their own decisions but they'll just persevere no matter what. That's not true. Grace is resistible. The Bible has mentioned multiple times that they resisted the grace of God. They resisted the word of God.
Speaker 3:People can choose. They can use their free will to resist. And again, I don't say this to offend anybody In that doctrine it makes God the only sinner because he's the one ordaining everything. You're telling me he's the one who ordained the father down the road to beat his baby to death with a hammer. No, that's literally outrageous. God did not sovereignly ordain that and say this is what I want to happen, so I'm going to force people to do this. He's not a puppeteer up there doing that. People have free will. People can choose to whether you're going to submit to the word, resist the devil, and he'll flee, or you can just give in to his temptations, and it's literally as simple as that. That's why this whole idea that there's no free will. No, there's free will. There's absolutely free will. And the reason the enemy is trying to undermine free will and people don't even understand and I don't mean to get political he's doing it right now in the world. He's saying I was born this way, I don't have a choice.
Speaker 3:Right right, okay, okay, you do have a choice. But the moment you think you don't have a choice because, see, I'm passionate, about this.
:You just believe it yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm passionate about this because it's the lie that the enemy peddled to me. He told me, the only way you're going to get out of this thing is if I allow it. You don't have a choice. Your will is now mine, and it's a lie. You always have a choice. You have a choice, even if your will is influenced.
Speaker 3:And not only my testimony, but we have a biblical account of a man who was possessed by thousands of devils and even they couldn't stop him. I mean, it's simple. We've heard it preached. They could not stop him from running to the feet of Jesus and falling down at his feet, and the Bible says worshiping him. Literally, an army of devils could not stop one person who was willing, who used their free will and said I am willing to run to the feet of Jesus and worship.
Speaker 3:And so which is funny is because possession has a caveat. They can possess you in nearly every area, except the avenue Well, the avenue of worship. If you choose to worship the Lord, they can't stop you. They cannot stop, they can control almost. You know, I haven't fully studied this out, but I think they can control almost everything else. But if you decide, I'm going to get up and I'm going to go to church today. They can't stop you. If you decide, I'm going to hit my knees right now and I'm going to cry out to the Lord. They can't, they cannot. That's the one thing. They can't stop. An army of them couldn't stop the man in Gadara.
:Yeah, that's so good.
Speaker 3:I didn't mean to get off on that. Maybe it was the coffee.
:No, it was really good. You know, as you talk, I'm like, oh man, that's yeah, but I'm just sitting here very attentive, and so then I just go blank on what.
Speaker 3:I want to say, because I've got to listen.
:But no, there's so many wonderful principles and I know I've heard you preach now um a lot and I know you're very principally based and I think the bible is a book of principles because we could take that and apply it to so many different situations, you know. But I think about I I think about luke 4, 18 a lot, because I think it really encapsulates where everybody's living. You know, they're either living out of their wounded heart, they're living out of deception, or they're living out of captivity yeah and and and what.
:what breaks all of that is the presence of the Lord, the presence of the Lord.
:Just preaching the gospel to the poor. So I want to move over into blood now. Sure, with my clientele-based self-harm has become a very popular thing. I think tattoos became very popular. They became very trendy. Suicide actually became very trendy, but a lot of people have cut and many kids in church have cut, and I know the Bible says that life is in the blood, and so I wanted you to maybe talk about um, how cutting, um willfully cutting, how that makes a covenant, makes an agreement with the enemy, and and the power of the cross, because I think again, as christians, we just apply the blood of Jesus, because that's what we've been told forever.
:But I really want to make the blood of Jesus applicable in how that it can heal diseases, especially blood diseases, which I believe is cancer right. One of them, but I think we're missing a level of revelation in this that maybe you can speak to, as it relates to both sides of the spirit realm where blood is concerned.
Speaker 3:So in Leviticus it says do not mark or mar your body, for I am the Lord, and we use that to to talk. Talk against tattoos. And yeah, I agree, but I mean contextually, no, no, no person who's being academically honest will say that that was a respective reference to tattoos. I mean, I'm just just to be transparent, I mean I. I mean I'm not encouraging somebody to go get one.
:Right right.
Speaker 3:I'm just saying to be intellectually honest, that's not what it was referring to, because I mean even context. I mean, if they reread that do not mark or mar your body, for I am the Lord, okay, why would you follow that up by saying, for I am the Lord? Well, it was common practice in that day that they would cut themselves. But they would cut themselves in order to invoke certain spirits, right. But then again, these pagan— Bail particularly Right. There were so many different pagan cultures, though it's difficult to nail down which ones they were referring to. So I tend to stay not with generalizations, as in like a bad way, but like as far as the common denominator. So I'm not going to highlight one pagan culture over another, because we don't know what exactly the Lord was referring to, but we just know he said don't mark or mar your body and so. But I saw just refer to the general practice.
Speaker 3:These pagans would cut themselves in a form of a ritual, and some had different caveats as to what it was for, but it was all spiritually induced. Every, every. They didn't just cut their body for no reason. It all, every bit of it, had some sort of spiritual connotation to it, whether that was to invoke a spirit, whether that was to signify to other groups of people or to other tribes that they belong to this false god or to this. They cut themselves for different reasons, but the root of it always had a spiritual connotation, had a spiritual connotation, and so and and you know, I I don't know, I can I can deduce that it is because I think it destroys the temple.
Speaker 3:I think it's, it's marring the image and you know, we're supposed to steward what God gives us. That includes our bodies, and I think by mutilating it it is almost one, a form of carelessness, but two, if we're not careful. There's a certain spirit behind stuff like that that crosses when you begin to harm flesh. It crosses the line Like. I can't explain it. I don't have the understanding to be able to explain it right now, but I've watched, I've seen it. There's something that happens to the human soul when they begin to cross that line into harming flesh, whether that be their own or somebody else. There's a certain spirit that if you're not careful, it's very, very very vile, very wicked, very twisted and like.
Speaker 3:That's why you know there's a funny saying. You know they probably tortured cats when they were little, you know Right, but that saying I mean it isn't for nothing. Because, that does it like I can't explain it. You can almost see it. It'll twist the soul. I vividly remember when I cut my hand to sign. There was something that changed. That's why people who are combat veterans, who've seen war I've sat down and talked to a lot of them. You can see it marks their soul.
Speaker 3:There's something that when you cross that barrier, like Cain did, it does something. You know God set his mark upon Cain and people might shoot me full of holes for this because they might say that you know that's not applicable, but I think it is. I think that was a principle. That's not applicable, but I think it is. I think that was a principle. I think when you take that step and hurt and harm flesh, when it's not in the will of God, because you know he did order His armies to subdue other armies, but when you do it, I think it leaves a mark on you. Just as God marked Cain, now he marked Cain, so people would know.
Speaker 3:But people who operate in the spirit will know what I'm talking about. There are certain marks on people's souls where you know some places that they've been. I can come in contact with people and I know if there's been a past of molestation. A lot of times it marks the soul. Now I'm not saying God didn't cover it with his blood. I'm not saying I'm digging up something underneath the blood, right, right. I'm saying that there are. It just marks the human soul. It leaves its imprint and I think, the physical. You know there's something it might mirror itself in the physical you know, as far as cutting, but that's my take on it.
Speaker 3:You know I've never understood it. You know I've never, I've never understood it. You know I never had. I can't speak from it. I never had the urge to harm myself. You know I I never. That was just never an avenue the enemy used to attack me. So I can't speak on it. That what I, what I said, that's my, that's my take on it is you know, I do believe if somebody's not careful they can slip off into something very, very, very dark, very quick if they're not careful.
:I was thinking of it in terms of covenant, you know especially the covenant Jesus made with us on the cross, and then you know like you cutting yourself to make that covenant.
:You know, I've just always wondered about that. I had bought a book once because I looked at several cultures. It was about the blood, particularly about the blood of Jesus, but how that cultures across antiquity and even now use blood in ritualistic stuff and sacrificial stuff. And so I've wondered when the enemy can get a kiddo to spill their own blood. Is that you know a covenant that they don't even know they're entering into?
Speaker 3:I would say I don't know that. I would personally say it was a covenant. It might be. To me, speaking from my background and kind of knowing lightly how the enemy works, I would say it shows what cards are in the human's hands, and what I mean by that is—.
:That they're susceptible to.
Speaker 3:Right. Right, it's letting him know how far they'll go, and so that will give up. That's why I say the spirit world is built of avenues. That in and of itself is an avenue of communication. It's communicating to that spirit. There's something behind the cutting, there's a piece of their will that's off, it's slighted. And so now I know that they're willing to go certain lengths by them making that gesture and cutting themselves. That's the avenue and they're saying, okay, there's something behind that. Now I know there's something off there. They're willing to go to certain lengths, and so it'll. Just, it's like an indicator, like, okay, now I see, does that make sense? That's my take on it.
Speaker 3:Now there are certain things that have the intentions of covenant I'm thinking of. I believe it's Genesis 38, where I don't remember if God ordered Moses to cut the animals and lay them in half or cut them in half or if God did that himself.
Speaker 3:But there's this vision that Abraham goes into, where there's this path and there's halves of animals on each side, and the Bible says that the Lord walked through and met Abraham and said and met Abraham and said they made a covenant and said so, be one of us like these animals if we don't uphold our end of the covenant and little to most people. That was messianic and what.
Speaker 3:God was saying is let me become, like you know, one of these if I don't end up, if I don't uphold my covenant. Now he did, but what he did was he paid the price because the seed of Abraham didn't uphold their covenant and they were supposed to become like the cut and bloody marred animals on each side, but instead and I heard one preacher say it like this you don't need to cut yourself, because Jesus was cut on the cross for you.
Speaker 3:He already bore in his body the wounds that sometimes we feel like we need to suffer for our wrongdoings. He already did that.
Speaker 3:He said in the book of Isaiah. It's one of my favorite passages. He said how could I forget you? You know I'm paraphrasing, but he said Israel, how could I forget you? I've graven thee again, anthropomorphics. I've graven thee on the palms of my hands. Thy walls are ever before me. So what he was saying was, when they drove those nails through my wrist, that was me engraving your name onto my identity. How could I forget you? And so you know, I think there was a time and place for somebody's body to be cut once and for all, and I believe that that was Jesus. And I believe his body was not harmed for him. It was harmed for us, and he bore the weight of our sins and our iniquity and our everything that we were supposed to go through. And I know some people that's why they feel the need to cut themselves. Maybe it's a form of punishment, maybe it's a form of release. Whatever the reason, jesus was cut for you, but that's my take on it.
:Yeah, no, that's good, that's good. I was just thinking. I think it was years before growing up in church. I never understood the cross in any real revelatory way. I don't think because I knew he died for my sins, I knew it was my way to salvation, I knew intellectually- but, then when you just look at the power in the blood of Jesus, that life is in the blood.
:Just look at the power in the blood of Jesus that life is in the blood and we apply the blood to things and it's the barrier that protects us. I just think it's so powerful, the ramifications of it.
Speaker 3:When.
:Scripture just comes alive for us beyond. Just okay, do this, we believe this. I mean, I always knew it, but it meant something so much different to me when I began to study the blood a little bit more.
Speaker 3:This was actually when I read this. This was going to be my favorite part of the whole session. And sometime back, the Lord gave me a revelation about the blood Not just blood in general, but his blood and I'm telling you it changed everything, literally everything. This, right here. I was so ready for this portion of the podcast right here. So I want to open up the talk about blood with this story, and this is you can go and look it up If you want to. I can send you a link to the article. You can link it in the podcast if people don't believe me. I mean, it's great.
Speaker 3:They've done studies on this and I'm going to paraphrase. There's a lady who was jogging one day and some man came out of the woods and tried to stab her to death. Some guy found her and they put her in an ambulance. Paramedics rushed her to the hospital. They lost her. Well turned out she was an organ donor. So they harvest her organs and there was a little. I think she was an 11 year old girl either 11 or 9 or something of that and she needed a heart transplant. So they transplanted the heart of this lady who was jogging and some guy you know, but they never found who it was who murdered her.
Speaker 3:So all of a sudden, the mother said and the article is slipping me, I can't remember the time, but she said her daughter started to change. It was within the year, she said, like she started to have dreams and what we would call visions of some very dark things. She didn't want to sleep alone at night. I mean, it was a whole crazy, you know. So her mother took her to a psychologist alone at night. I mean, it was a whole crazy, you know. So her mother took her to a psychologist. She would know, you know, about this, and a psychologist can't get any real breakthrough not not understanding this.
Speaker 3:All of a sudden, emotional shift, mental shift, everything like this. This, this little world was messed up. And the psychologist, um, she had had and you would know how this works, I don't know if she requested or had access prior to her medical files, you know, when you go into a psychologist, but she's looking through and she sees this heart transplant. And so the little girl had been telling this is what was freaking her out, the dreams. She started having dreams that she was being stabbed to death and they got more and more vivid, more vivid, more vivid. She started to see the guy's face, and so she said this is weird.
Speaker 3:And this is like something you think was out of a movie. This actually happened. Colleges have studied this.
Speaker 3:So, they ask her. She goes back in and she says would you be able to describe if I brought somebody in? You know, would you be able to describe if these men were placed in front of you? Would you be able to point them out? And this little girl said absolutely. So they brought in a sketch artist and they sketched a picture. And they look and there's a match there's a man who lived in the area that the jogger was murdered, and so this is I mean, this is like literally no evidence Like this isn't enough to put somebody behind bars. So they went out on a limb and said you know what? We'll just question the guy. There's nothing wrong with questioning him.
Speaker 3:So, they sent police officers to question the guy. That the guy buckled at the door and admitted to it all and said it was me I murdered her. I've been living with it all my conscience. So I think don't quote me on it. The article will say I think I can't remember if it was Yale or there's a lot of colleges that have studied it, but I think they called it genome memory or mapping or something like that, and the only thing they could conclude is that somehow the heart remembered things.
Speaker 3:And so then, all of a sudden, I coupled this information with there are tons of studies that show when people get blood transfusions, they pick up habits that they've never had before, or they pick up disciplines that they've never had before. They start going to the gym, they start eating, all because they've had blood transfusions. But what they don't understand is that there is life in the blood.
Speaker 3:Man that's powerful and so, because the blood speaks, you take this, you take this, and I believe that is where most what people call generational curses live. I think they live in the blood, and so you take this now, apply it to the blood of Jesus.
:It has to live in the blood, because that's where life is. That's where life is.
Speaker 3:So now you take all of this now apply it to the blood of Jesus. It has to live in the blood, because that's where life is. That's where life is. So now you take all of this, all of these principles, and apply it to the blood of Jesus. And so, all of a sudden, when you take on the blood, you start picking up habits that you've never had before.
:You start picking up disciplines you've never had before. It changes us. It really changes us. It's not just words.
Speaker 3:It literally changes you. Yeah and so, but here's the thing I'm going to put a plug in for all of my Pentecostals there's only one way you can have the blood of Jesus, the true sacrifice, applied to your life.
Speaker 3:And that is when you're baptized in the only saving name of Jesus Christ, not in the titles. That's why it's reiterated it's not for religion. The only way that that blood can be applied to your life is if you do like the apostle said in Acts chapter 2 and Acts chapter 8, acts chapter 10, acts chapter 19,. You've got to be baptized in his name, because then you're buried in Christ and the blood of Jesus is applied to you, and so that's why you can say you're a new creature. It's because you've got new blood.
:Because the iniquity runs through our bloodline and so his blood takes away all the iniquity and cleanses it from all of that, which is all the way back to Genesis 2. I did not know about those studies, but that makes sense because, I'm like epigenetic cellular, cellular transference, you know, because I'm a huge believer in generational curses and generational blessing, um, because it's evident. I mean, you just talk to a family, you can see what runs through their family.
:It's generational and you know curses has such a bad connotation to it. But it's just so evident that the Bible I feel like science proves over and over and over how real the Bible is. Yeah, but wow, that is so powerful Because we really do have the power. Yeah, yeah, you know. When they say that the Lord gives you the power to tread on serpents and all of that, it's because of the power of His blood that speaks that lives.
Speaker 3:That's why it says the blood of Jesus speaketh better things than that of Abel. Yes, because the blood's still alive. Abel's blood cried out for justice. Jesus has cried out for mercy, and so his blood can speak as well. He's got a voice. Yeah, and so there's. I'm telling you you could spend hours on talking about blood, the blood of Jesus, and how it I mean it's to me. When I found that out, it was remarkable. Oh yeah, I mean, it's just I'll have to send you the study yeah.
:Yeah, I'm just picturing having you know you preach that message at a church with people who have disease processes running through their body. Embrace the transformative work of the blood of Jesus from a faith perspective and then apply it. You know, I think we would see so much more divine healing, so much more.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, absolutely.
:And so, like I wasn't thinking about this, but I'm just thinking about it now, what role do you think communion plays? Because I know a lot of in our church culture we don't really do communion a lot because they see it as I think, they see it as ritualistic. But I know other Christians that take it all the time and I know one guy who had Huntington's disease. He had a sister and I think a mother pass away from Huntington's disease, which is a debilitating disease. He took communion every day for over a year I think, and the Lord has completely healed him of that. So do you have any thoughts about communion and applying the blood? Because the Bible says as much as you do this in remembrance of me.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. So you know I think I'm sometimes I can be a big word guy, and you know we call it communion, and so for me it is a regrounding. Communion is not ritualistic, communion is a relational term.
Speaker 4:That's why I said, when you do this, oh, that's so good.
Speaker 3:Do this in remembrance of me. So for me, it could be different for anybody, but for me, you know, when you do the work of the ministry, you get caught up in a lot of other stuff and I think when you take communion it will reground you to the center of this entire thing that we do, and that is the cross. He said when you eat this bread, remember that it was my body. When you take this cup, remember that was my blood that was poured out. And so for me, you know, when I close my eyes during communion, I say God, you know, it's so easy to get all of these other things out of order, but I'm so thankful that in this moment of true communion with you, it regrounds me to where this whole thing started, to what is this all about? And it's about you on the cross. It's about you making a way for all of humanity. And so for me, that's what communion is about.
Speaker 3:And I think there is a power when people finally see the image of the cross. And I think that's where, you know, some people are healed, some people are delivered. I've seen people receive the Holy Ghost during communion services. I mean because it puts Jesus back in his right place. Yeah, yeah. You know, that's good, that's for me.
Speaker 3:You know, it might be different for other people, but for me it's about communion. It's about. You know, just reflecting on what he did.
:Right, yeah, to make it tangible because, like I said, I think we get so caught up with the religiosity of the cross that it's not always applicable in ways that I wish that it were more, and hopefully it's moving in that direction and maybe it is in other places I'm just seeing it now you know, for me.
:You know that's probably a really great place to end. Thank you so much. I just really appreciate you and your ministry and your insight and your revelation and the way you see the Bible through principles. It's so applicable, I think, to any situation, wherever it is that we're living. So thank you for your time and your dedication and your prayer life and, yeah, like I said, the messages I've listened to have just really ministered to me and I appreciate you. I'm really glad to know you.
Speaker 3:I'm glad to know you as well. Thank you, I hope it encourages and blesses somebody. I appreciate the work you're doing. I think there are a lot of voices out there, but it's always good to have a good voice.
:Thank you, thank you so much. Okay, I'm going to send you some emails about some things but I hope you have a wonderful, wonderful day.
Speaker 3:Yes, ma'am, you too God bless.
:God bless. Story of redemption or have worn the label of a backslider. We would love to hear from you If you'd like to support our ministry. Your donation will be tax deductible.
Speaker 4:Visit our website at kathychastaincom. We hope you will tune in for our next episode.
