Mercy and the Miraculous- Rev. Robert Rodela TRB Season 2 #43

A voice in a jail laundry room. A Bible open to a sentence that felt like a summons. And a quiet whisper that rewrote a life: “I never left you.” Kathy sits down with Rev. Robert “Bobby” Rodello to trace a raw, unforgettable journey—from a childhood steeped in altar calls and miracles, to the fracture of a family, to gang nights and a case that stacked into centuries on paper. As the bars closed, a prophecy remembered, and a soul tested prayer by inches, grace did what grace does best: it found a way in.

Bobby shares the turning points with striking clarity—the heaviness that drove him to argue with God, the line “you cannot serve two masters” that proved God was listening, and the seven-and-a-half-year wrestle to be renewed in the Holy Ghost. In a cramped room behind bars, he surrendered everything and felt the flood of the Spirit. Then came the words that cut through years of lies about abandonment, ushering him into a love that turned defiance into devotion. What followed was a jailhouse revival with daily Bible studies, healings, and over a hundred baptisms in Jesus’ name, even as legal setbacks tested hope and refined purpose.

Listen, share with someone who needs hope, and help us reach more prodigals ready to come home. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: what line in this story spoke to you most?

Transcript

Conference Invite And Sponsor

SPEAKER_04 0:00

If you haven't heard the Redeem Backslider podcast and the Pentecostal Lighthouse of Viselia is getting ready to host Unshackled, a conference that is specifically geared for prodigals and the families of prodigals. It's taking place March 6th, 7th, and 8th at the Pentecostal Lighthouse Church. We are attaching the flyer to this podcast, and you're welcome to follow us on social media for more information. You can also email us or visit the website, theredeembackslider.org or Pentecostal Lighthouse.net. We hope that you will make plans to come. We are expecting a wonderful presence of God. This episode has been sponsored by my friend and dentist, Dr. Craig Sadio at SmileVicelia. If you're looking for a dentist, you won't find a better one in Tularie County. He specializes in all your dentistry needs, plus cosmetic dentistry and ortho. His phone number is 559-734-7035. If you call him, please tell him that Kathy from the Redeemed Backslider Podcast sent you. Thank you so much.

Meet Kathy And Rev. Bobby Rodello

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider. With your host, Kathy Chestain, Christian-based psychotherapist and a redeemed backslider. This podcast is dedicated to those who have wandered but are ready to return to the life-changing power of grace and the freedom found in Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 1:37

Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider. I'm your host, Kathy Chastain. I'm a Christian-based psychotherapist and a redeemed backslider. With me tonight from Mantica, California is the Reverend Bobby Rodello. He is currently the assistant pastor at Tabernacle of Praise in Manteca. And I've been trying to get him on the podcast for a while. I hear he has an incredible story. And so I'm super excited to talk with him tonight. And so, Brother Bobby, thank you very much for being here.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I uh appreciate the opportunity, uh, and it's an honor to be able to come and share my testimony tonight.

SPEAKER_04 2:21

So um you were referred to me from our mutual friend uh Michael Torres, and he told me that you guys used to be really are real good friends now, but used to be good friends back in the day, and that you had uh a similar experience as he. So I was wondering if you could just start wherever you would like and give me a little history.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Okay, yeah. So um again we have a lot of mutual friends, me and brother uh brother Mike Torres. Um actually, one of those friends is who sent me the initial um link and told me, hey, check it out. Uh Mike Torres is in a podcast. So I went and watched it and uh it was very insightful. I know it's gonna be a great blessing. It already has been and will be a great blessing to others that um listen to it um in a lot of ways. Uh, but it was insightful too in some things. Some things he he said, I so connected with. Uh I'll probably speak on that a little bit in some of what we share tonight. But um, yeah, so that's how I originally found out about your podcast. I've I've actually watched a few more since then. Um so it, like I said, it's a great honor. Um, I know Mike, uh brother Torres, um, from when we were children. Uh so um maybe I'll just kind of start back a little bit. So my uh parents, um, yeah, maybe

Parents’ Conversion And Early Church Life

SPEAKER_01 3:36

I'll just start there. So my parents uh they came to the Lord in 1979. Um my dad was 18 years old. My mom had just turned 19 years old. Um, they had been together since they were like 16 and they were living together at the time. And uh my dad, uh I'll try to make it condensed as possible, but my dad was working um at a particular job, and there was uh a brother, uh Charlie Bispo, that worked there, and he would always try to witness to my dad or reach out to my dad. My my dad was um an obnoxious uh individual towards him by his own account. Uh he used to do things intentionally to antagonize Brother Charlie and so forth. But brother Charlie just continued to reach out to him, and um, it went from Brother Charlie reaching out to him to one day God started calling and dealing with my dad. Um, in particular, it was at that work site, um, and he was sandblasting, and God began to speak to him, and uh it shook him because he had uh never heard God speak to him before. Um, and so God begins to speak to him, and he begins to have this conversation with God in the middle of sandblasting out there and um arguing with God in some ways, and finally that he concluded with telling the Lord, Well, I've tried Jehovah's Witnesses, I've tried the Catholic churches, I've tried these different things, and I've never experienced nothing from you. You never answered me, and uh God told him, but you never tried me. Um and so when my dad and then he had God spoke to my dad and told him, You must be uh you must be washed in my blood. And my dad was like, What's washed in my your blood? And uh, and so God directed him and told him, Go speak to Brother Charlie Bispo. And so uh my dad went to brother to Charlie Bispo, and Charlie Bispo began to preach to him and teach him and speak to him and uh right there at work. And um, and so from there, my dad wanted to be baptized that night. Um, there was no church going on that night, but brother Bispo said, Hey, let me get a hold of someone, see what we can do. And so um, as I said, my parents already lived together. They weren't married at that time, but they had already lived together. And so um my dad goes home, and little did he know, my mom was actually home at that time, packing, getting ready to leave him. Um, she was actually heading out the door, ready to go. And so my dad walks in, he sees what she's doing, he begins to explain to her, like, God's gonna change my life. And he's telling her this experience that he had, and she tells him basically like, No, you're a liar, you're just trying to get me to stay. Um and my dad was like, No, let's call Charlie. So they call Charlie, uh, Brother Bispo, and uh they call him and he answers and he confirms with my mom, yes, everything uh that Bobby is telling you is true, and and and he wants to get baptized and God's gonna do a great work in his life. Why don't you come with them and see uh what happens? And so she said, okay. So they go down to the church that night. At that time, it was uh the United Pentecostal church in Modesto. It was on Tuolemy and Calaveras, the building's still there, um, but it was that's where the church was at currently. Uh brother Dansby was the pastor. Um, and it was an off-night, no service, but Brother Bispo, uh Sister Bonnie Kettner, Brother Winter, and a few others uh showed up um to be there for that. And uh, and so my dad gets baptized in Jesus' name. And when he comes out of the water, he received the Holy Ghost, began to speak in other tongues. Um, my mom was like, What in the world? But she felt something, which was God. She felt something that she had never felt before. So she says, I want to get baptized too. Um, and so they baptized her in Jesus' name that night. She did not get the Holy Ghost yet, it was just a little bit of duration of time before she received the Holy Ghost. Um, they actually even got married that evening as well. So they would go back home. They weren't going back to sin. So they got married and they went, yeah, so they they went home. Um, and that's where it all began, 1979. That's where they they began. My dad was um greatly used in reaching his family, and him and my mom got really involved in the things of God. Um, I came along just the next year later, um, uh just the 1980, I was born. Uh, so I came along just the next year later and was born, uh, and they were still at the uh that property there. Um by that time, um, Brother uh Bishop Keyes, Randy Keyes, uh took over that church or was voted in uh as pastor for that church. And um and they had a great revival at that church and it grew and it had to be moved. That's they went to the location where that church is currently at on 7th and 9th Mesto. Um and my mom and dad were used at that time. I was I grew up uh in a home that was open consistently for Bible studies, um, consistently inviting people in. My dad would start working with new converts and they were down and out or whatever was going on. He would just invite them to come live with us. We had an extra room, so they would just want to help someone um in their walk with God. And so I have memories of just different people, uh, random people who became brothers and sisters in the Lord that uh came and live with us and stay with us for a while.

SPEAKER_04 8:14

Um that was I just wanted to say really. Okay, sorry for the people out there. Um I I I was started to say um that says so much about um Brother Bispo and his willingness to just drop what he was doing in the moment to go make sure someone someplace had a baptismal tank, you know, and then to marry them right then and there, you know, because I think so often I just wonder where we're at in the church for people to be that spontaneous, because when God is calling and someone's ready, we have to answer that call right there. And I just think that's incredible. Your dad was ready, and the other thing I was gonna say is how do you interpret what God spoke to your dad? Especially your dad said, Hey, I've tried this, I've tried this, I've tried this, and God's reply back. How do you interpret that?

SPEAKER_01 9:28

So I think my dad tried religious meanings. I think he tried, you know, for lack of a better word, catechisms and and and things of men and religions and um things of the like. And I think when God spoke to him, he was simply saying, You can try all that, but you ain't ever touched me or tried me or know me or experienced me. Um I I've always found it amazing that God would use this specific verbiage when he was talking to him and telling him, You gotta be washed in my blood. And my dad would my dad would tell you, um,

Childhood In Revival And Christian School

SPEAKER_01 9:55

his testimony, he would tell you, like, I was like, What in the world is that? He had no idea what that meant. And and when God told him, go speak to Charlie Bisco, he will tell you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it's pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_04 10:07

It is. It's it's also exciting that you know, when God's ready to speak, he can speak, and he does speak.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:16

So you were raised in a Christian home. You're you're you're born into apostolic um faith and and raised. And so what was what was childhood like? You have siblings?

SPEAKER_01 10:28

I do. I have a brother, uh, my brother Ruben. I've had other siblings since, but growing up, it was me and him. Um, and so he he has a similar testimony. He also came back to the Lord at a later time in life. But he we grew up together in the church. Um so as involved as my mother and my dad, my dad and my mom were involved in the ministry. We were really connected to everything going on at the church in those years. Um, like I say, we had home Bible studies and the like and those kind of things. But my dad ended up being, you know, particular kind of leader in some areas and different things, and uh he got licensed as a minister with the UPCI um at that time, and just he he was really involved in the ministry. My mom was alongside to help. Um, and I have vivid memories of being in a home where Bible studies are going on, and people were getting baptized in the bathtub, people were getting filled with the Holy Ghost. Like there's just it was it was really interesting, an interesting time. Um, I grew up in that church, and I didn't know there was just a special visitation and move of God during that time that I didn't know was as special as it was until I got older and was able to look back and see it. And if you know, if to me, church, you go, the Holy Ghost is gonna get poured out, people are gonna get healed. I've seen I watch people get out of wheelchairs and uh angels in the sanctuary, the the glory of God filled that place. There's like a mist in the air, um, powerful men of God, preachers and prophets and different ones coming through and just speaking the word of the Lord. And um, to me, if you ask me, that's what was church, I would tell you that. I I didn't really realize how special and privileged it was to really know that kind of capacity of a work and move of God as it was back then. And so um that was just me experienced all those kinds of yeah, to me, that was yeah. If you told me you went to church, I would just that's what I would envision, or that's what I would think. Um, and so we we were exposed to all of that. Um, and not, of course, not just us, all the children and teenagers and youth and you know, the adults type of the other time we were exposed to a great, great move of God. I was really young throughout those times, childhood, even even getting towards my teenagehood, still young. So um I can't say like I was involved in that kind of way, you know, but I got to experience what was there, and I got to experience those altered times and those prayer times, and and obviously I got to see um a lot of things and be exposed to those things in that way. So I was pretty amazing. Um, we went to the the church also had uh at that time, the church also had a Christian school, it's called Tuolumni Christian School. Um so we also went to that school. Uh, my mom, even at some point, was a teacher there. I was laughing when Mike was talking about the teachers at TCS. But my mom ended up being a teacher uh there as well at one point. Um, it helped out with us being able to go there and so forth. So um, but so we all went there. So if you were involved or there at the United Pentecost church in Modesto in the 80s and the 90s um particular, uh that knit of friends or people were very closely knit. Like I went to church with all these kids and young people throughout the uh or school throughout the week, and I would likely see them on Saturday at a church function, and I would like likely see them on a Sunday uh because we had church Sunday evening and uh and Sunday morning um revivals. There was you know Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday revivals back then that you would be Wednesday, Thursday, yeah. It would there's so extended revivals during that time. Um and so everyone at that time uh had a pretty close uh connection with each other in that sense of just spending a lot of time and being around each other a lot. Um, and so that that was pretty much my childhood. Um, you know, of course, we you know, we had there, you know, getting a little bit older, you start getting towards a certain age and you start questioning things or rebelling against things or whatever. And why can't we do this? Why can't we do that? Um, you know, of course, now looking back, I realize the guards that were being put in place in order to keep us uh yeah, yeah, yeah, keep us where we need to be. Um, and then of course, some of us, like myself, uh decided to to push against those guards and at some point just get out from them and just go our own way. Um I think during that time, I have a go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 14:30

I was just gonna say, I think it's interesting uh because uh I grew up in that time too, and that's how we grew up the revivals, the supernatural, you know, move of God. Um and I remember being taught against TV and movies and all of those things. And now, all of these years later, you can see, I mean, I I don't know how you feel about it, but you can see how much is in those movies and the television shows that come across and what kind of influence they actually bring. And as a kid, you know, we're just innocent. We think, how could that be all the things that they were saying? But now and as an adult, we can look at that and say, wow, I would keep my kids from a lot of that stuff as well. You know, even if it wasn't a religious construct, I would do it just as a mechanism of protection, you know, from societal norms that exist. So but it's great to see it all come full circle, I think, you know, as in our adulthood years and see why they did put all those guards in place. They really, really were for our good. I just think as kiddos, we didn't know how to understand it.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Right. Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, you know, I remember I remember being

Rebellion, Family Fracture, And Streets

SPEAKER_01 15:48

a kid and telling my mom, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 15:50

Go ahead, no, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

Oh, oh, okay. Um, yeah, I remember being a kid and telling my mom. Um one of my big complaints when I was a kid, I used to tell her, why do we only have Saturday? We have to be at church all day on Sunday, and all the other kids have Saturday and Sunday. We only have Sunday, and you know, you just it's just little stuff I remember as a kid just questioning and asking and and looking back. Like those are when I first came back to God, my greatest best memories was my childhood youth camps. I I loved youth camps when I was a kid. Got to go to youth camps and got, I'm still, I you know, even when I first came back to God, I started remembering messages I heard at youth camp. Um, God, there's a different ways that God was initially dealing with me. And I remember Brother Kelly Howard preaching about the Pi Piper, and you know, and and yeah, just different ones that would come to me. So, but my great, like I said, my best memories was uh my childhood and and and experiences with God and the house of God. And and uh yeah, I remember even one time when I initially started coming back to God, I was like, man, why did I ever leave? Like, what did what did I hope to gain or have? And um, of course, you know, life had gone on by then, but yeah, definitely special, it was a special time during that time.

SPEAKER_04 16:57

Yeah. Did you have so when you were a kiddo, did you get the Holy Ghost?

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Yeah, so I received the Holy Ghost when I was uh yeah, so I received the Holy Ghost when I was four years old. Um, and then I was baptized when I was six.

SPEAKER_04 17:12

You know, I I am the more I do that, the longer I do this podcast, the more and more stories I'm hearing of kids getting the Holy Ghost at such a young age. And the first one that I had tell me that uh she got the Holy Ghost at three years old, and I was like thinking, you know, the developmental process of children, like I guess the innocence is so pure at that time it would be easy for them to receive it, but cognitively not really being able to understand what maybe it was all about, other than the presence of the Lord. But um I just think it's beautiful when when kids can can get the Holy Ghost at such a young age. That's remarkable to me. I was 11, which was quite a week.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Still young.

SPEAKER_04 17:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, and it was yeah, it was wonderful for me, but um four years old, that's pretty special.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

So how it was at a PSR conference.

SPEAKER_04 18:11

Oh, PSR PSR. I I do. I think I was a teenager when um PSR was kind of the start of some of the the split, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Yeah, it ended more in that direction, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I remember, yeah, I was a I was a teenager by then when that when PSR came on the scene. Yeah. Because Fresno is just like, yeah, I remember it was Fresno was just really close to us down the road, you know, about 45 minutes from us and not very far from you either.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Yeah, just about two hours. Yeah, so we we uh we used to go. I would my mom and my dad in the early years would go one at a time, like one would go one year, one would go the next, and I would go with one of them, and my brother would stay home. And uh, but I was four years old. It's the same brother I actually remember from um youth camp, brother Kelly Howard. I was like to the right of the altar on this side, and I uh and I was praying, and he was the one that was praying for me actually when I got the Holy Ghost. I remember that. Um but I was very young. Um, of course, I needed some good renewings coming up after that, a different time and places, but yeah, I first received it at four.

SPEAKER_04 19:19

Wow, that's wonderful. I don't know what's going on with the sound or why there is a delay. I apologize. I I'm not really sure what's happening there. Um okay, so walk me through the rest.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

So um, as I said, so we grew up, that was childhood. Um, and then uh as I got um as we as I started getting towards 12 years old, so somewhere in the 11 years of age, um, my dad actually started uh for a better word, he started backsliding. Um and he he kept it together for a duration of time and and finally it came to the point where it was not uh it was A hidden thing anymore. Um, and so as some things began to be exposed uh in the household, and and my mom uh became aware of it, it of course caused this new friction in the home. And uh I do remember just coming home uh one day from school, um, and my mom, and actually our principal at the time is the one that gave us a ride that day, which I found strange driving home. I that's not the norm. My mom was best friends with his wife, who was also a teacher at the school. And so him giving us a ride home was way different. I remember even thinking on the way, like, what's going on? So we get home and we walk in, and um, my oh, excuse me, just me, my brother was actually homesick. Um, and so we get home, we come in. Uh my grandma was there because she was watching my brother while he was sick. And my mom was home, and uh her friend was also there, uh which was the uh brother, the brother's wife. And she's my mom was real emotional, and and uh, and I was just told to go to the room. And so I went to the room. Uh, my as I said, my grandma, my brother was in there, and then my grandma told me your your mom um asked your dad to leave. Um, and so that right there was a whole lack of a better word, everything shattered. It just was like, whoa. Um, I remember my dad calling me that evening and saying, Hey, can you do me a favor? There's a few things I need. Can you put them in a bag and I I can meet you in the backyard? Um, and no cell phones back then, it was just the cordless one. I was 12. I was 12. And so uh I got his stuff that he asked me. It was, it was. Yeah, um, and so I got his stuff together, put it in the bag of stuff that he asked me, and and uh went out to the backyard because he told me he would be back there at a certain time, and gave him his bag. And I remember him hugging me and um and crying. Uh I, you know, I'm sure he was going through a lot of different emotions and obviously the situation that he was dealing with then, and then uh he left. And so there was a there was a period of time um where they they did try to reconcile a little bit. Um I believe during that time my dad's heart was more towards having his family back and coming back home than it was actually returning to God. Um so they they did there was a a time span where there was some trying of a of a reconciliation between them, but it didn't, it didn't happen. Um also during that time, um, my dad, of course, went back to his old ways and he was, you know, out living his violent life and and uh running the streets again and dealing drugs again. And um and uh because my mom was not fully aware of quite everything or the depths of it, um I still spent a lot of time with him. Um, which I don't know if she would have kept me from him either way, him being my dad, but uh I ended up hanging out with him a lot and being where his friends were at and being uh seeing what he was involved in. And so already as a kid at that age, there's what did that look like?

SPEAKER_04 22:53

Is that violence running the stream or running the street? Yeah, was he in game?

SPEAKER_01 22:58

So being out so he he was involved in that when he was younger. At that age, he wasn't particularly what would be referred to as like a gangbanger in that kind of sense. Um, he did hang around guys that were involved heavy in that kind of stuff, but um, he was mostly involved in the street scene of hustling and making money and selling drugs,

High-Speed Chase And Trap House Nights

SPEAKER_01 23:20

partying. Um, I remember being in households with all his friends, and these are old, these are men, these are grown men. I'm just a young guy, just seeing what everybody's up to and doing, and the party that's going on and what's happening, and um being out really, really late with him, you know, early in the morning uh hours, um, you know, some situations that not, I guess 12-year-old, even turning 13, uh 14, um, would not be exposed to in the normal sense of life.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

And and I didn't, so I was already at the place too where I became rebellious. I was already becoming rebellious, and and him not going to church no more gave me, I felt like gave me the credence at the time, like I'm not going to church either. Um, so I would argue with my mom a lot.

SPEAKER_04 24:03

You were becoming rebellious before they split up or right after they split up?

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Uh it was already starting to happen a little bit right before they split up.

SPEAKER_04 24:11

Yeah, it was I was already- Do you know what was triggering any of that?

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Um, I I I can't say one thing particular, but I know that I was starting to look at things and watch things and and and partake drink of things and try things and um that obviously were not of God and not Christian.

SPEAKER_04 24:33

Right. And most of your friends were at church or church friends at that time, right? Then because you were you were, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Yeah, they were. Um, and uh a portion of them were in kind of the same-mindedness of me. So we went to Christian school together. Um, I was still in the Christian school at that time. Uh I ended up getting expelled, and uh and then I ended up in the public school system at 15 years old. Um the interesting thing in all this, and my mom used to say my mom, she's passed away since then uh a few years ago, but um she used to say like it was the perfect setup, like everything happened, and then interestingly enough, um I started getting exposed to I'll just refer to him as like the street elements, things of the street, and and on all this by my dad initially. Um, and my dad got my dad got like he went way farther than he probably intended to go and and ended up being uh in a really bad place, uh, even even uh in his mentality. And so his his thought later, what he would let me know is at that time uh he was so paranoid he didn't know who he could trust. And so he would bring me because he knew he could trust me. I was always a little big for my age, and uh for lack of a better word, maybe a little more mature on some things, and so he felt like he had someone that had his back or would would would be there with him as I got a little bit older in time, and uh and so um because of it where he was at in his men in his in his mind, um he would include me or bring me along, and I was exposed to all this all these things. My my first high speed chase I got into, I was he was in the back of his van, and he's he's not he's incapacitated basically, and I'm I'm driving his van and and uh I I probably look too young to drive at the time. Um and an officer sees us and and you know, and uh we got away, but that that was just kind of some of the stuff that was happening during that time.

SPEAKER_04 26:27

So can you uh Bobby, could you um elaborate? I know you're probably being careful, and so if if you're trying to be careful because of your current role as assistant pastor, just tell me. I understand. But um, I like the details for a couple of reasons. For one, because I think it it thoroughly illustrates God's redemption of just how far we sink as backsliders and what we actually do become exposed to, and also the journey that we have to walk out once we do come back to the Lord, you know, because you cannot take away the memories or the experiences that you have. But but for two, um, there are backsliders that watch this and people that, you know, I've shared in some of the things, some of the emails that we've gotten, and there are people that really feel like they've done too much that God won't forgive them. They've gone too far. And so I I think I think the depravity of where we go as people without God is really important to illuminate in that for that reason, because there's people out there still suffering in that. So um I don't want you to go where you don't want to go, but I also, if if you could be a little bit more specific about what you're exposed to, a high-speed chase, my mind is just gonna wander a robbery, you know, um what any of that could have looked like and what how old you would have been at that time.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Yeah, yeah. So at that time I was uh 13. So that particular instance I remember, um, pretty vivid. Um I was probably closer to 14. Yeah, I was 13.

SPEAKER_04 28:14

I was probably and you were driving your dad's van?

SPEAKER_01 28:17

I was driving my dad's van. I was driving it because he uh, like I said, he was incapacitated in the in the back. It was it was one of those old cargo style vans with some carpet in the back and you know the bench and all that kind of stuff. So um due to due to his intoxication, he wasn't able to function. And so I was his designated driver um just as as because I'm there. And so um I'm trying to drive from point A to point B to basically get it somewhere in the park and just kind of hang out until he gets to where he's able to be better and drive his own self. Um and as I pull up to a stop sign, uh a cop car passes in front of us, and the officer looks over at me, looks away, but in my mind, I'm like, I think he's looking at me. I think he realizes I'm too young to be driving this van. And so I watch him go down and I cross, he hits his brake lights, and I see him take a street that heads the same direction I am now, but parallel. And then I thought, oh, maybe I'm just worrying that he's not, it's not no big deal. And so I come to the light and I look down and I see him, I can see down the street at the light that I'm at, and I see him come out from the other street, and I'm like, oh no, he's he's coming this way. And so I had enough distance at that point to it was green for me to make my left. And as soon as I made my left, I just gassed it. I seen him, his lights come on. I got to the next right, quick first right I could come to, and I basically drove up into a park and drove behind a schoolhouse and just parked there. Uh, I seen him go by, the lights were all, everything was dark, so he couldn't see us back there behind the building, but I could see him drive by. Um, and that was pretty much the sum of the sum of the situation. Nothing, nothing else happened. I I was able to at some point after a little while. And we stayed there for a while, actually. I thought, well, might as well park right here. We're in the dark and no one knows we're here.

SPEAKER_04 29:54

So that's that was pretty smart of you for 13 years old. Raising Christian home, you know, like you only had one year really to acclimate to any kind of other

Hardened Heart And Disillusionment With God

SPEAKER_04 30:05

life. That was that was pretty pretty wise of you to do that.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Yeah, so and and and I think like I said, uh my dad's a not good intention, not not a bad intention, but a bad decision was uh I just want my boy around me, kind of counted on me a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 30:25

And so um responsible.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 30:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

So um, so things like that. I I remember I remember him going to a house he used to go to a lot, and there was a lot of it was for these days we call it a trap house. Back then, I'm not exactly sure what they called it. I was young at that time, but he would go there and I I'd been over there with him before, and I remember this time he gave me some specific instructions and just told me to come knock at a door at the specific time, and um he was uh actually worried that he didn't know if he was gonna come back out um because he was in some kind of situation with these people that he was hanging out with all the time. And so eventually, oh my goodness, uh I go knock on the door and and they open up and he's like, Oh, hey, I forgot about the I I go in and I remember us being there. And I remember sitting there, even at that age, I remember sitting there thinking, You're hanging out with all these guys right now? We should be going. Like, you already knew well, you know, like it's good, like obviously things are okay now, maybe. But right, I remember sitting there thinking that, like, but we're hanging out here now, like this probably isn't like the best place to be, Pops. Um, but I just I was there and I wasn't gonna look like a sissy and I wasn't gonna uh be a voice of reason. I just decided I was gonna hang out with him since we were hanging out there, and so I remember just hanging out there really late. Um, and then we we ended up going uh back home. And so there were these those kind of different things and those kind of different experiences um during that time when he wasn't living for God and I was hanging out with him. Um and he got um he got to a point where things got real bad. Um, and he actually came back to the Lord when I was 16. So there's a lot that happened between that time frame, though. Um, like I said, hanging out with him, and I was between staying with him and staying with my mom, we would, you know, they would share those times. And so when I was with my mom, um sometime, sometimes um I would argue or get in arguments with her about going to church and so forth, and um, and she would deal with me and my brother because she had my brother too at this time, and you know, he's younger, but she's still dealing with all that. She's dealing with her own emotions at this time. She's still living for God. My mom always lived for God um the whole time. You know, I say this because she used to say she was never perfect, but she was faithful. I can say that about her, but she would say, I know I'm not perfect. Um, but she would um she would continue to live for God and uh have constant memories of her uh doing her best to be that influence and uh be that light and be that prayer warrior and support in our lives. And um, and so I you know we we we shared this time. And so during that time, still up until like I said, I ended up going to public high school at the age of 15, um, getting in trouble at TCS and uh getting expelled from there. Um and so uh what had begun to happen during that time prior, though, is um because I was starting to hang around my dad and be involved in those things, uh, I started taking on different attitudes and conduct. And um, it wasn't too long where the parents of my friends began to notice this. And um, as they begin to notice this, and as I begin to get in trouble and they begin to hear about or know about it, there came a point where they were like, You're he's not allowed over here no more. He um I remember specifically like times more than once I remember seeing them come and pass out uh birthday invitations or verbally telling our uh our other friends, like, oh, you're invited to my house. And and I'm like, What's my invitation? Or like and they're like, Oh, my mom said you can't come over, man. And um and so there was a yeah, there was a root of bitterness, a real resentment that that turned to real resentment, but it was bitter at first only, it was hurt at first only. Um, but eventually down the road, it it was resentment. Uh, it became some really bad resentment. Um, and so I I'd be beginning to feel um pushed away, not involved, um, not connected to them like I used to feel. Um, and in that same time, hearing Mike say this, actually, I thought, man, that's wild. I would have never known Mike was going through those things in his mind. I started feeling the same way. I don't belong here. I don't know even why my mom's making me come here. These parents don't like me. I can't even hang out with my friends. And there was also the other side that I thought, like, I'm I'm making new friends now too. Um, so I don't even need these friends no more. Like, I don't, you know, like that, that kind of those attitudes and thoughts begin to happen. Um, and so so those things were happening during that duration of time. And then interestingly enough, there was a couple that went to our church. Uh, the brother, he actually came out from uh gang lifestyle and different things, and he was living for God. He's bringing his family members to church because he's trying to win them to the Lord, and some of them are young in my age, you know, as that 13, 14 uh age span. And I meet them and I click with them. Um, we, you know, we hit it off, and I end up finding out, oh, you you live right down the street from my grandma's house, which is where I was living at the time. Um at first, initially back and forth between my mom and that. At some point, my mom was like, told my dad, like, I can't, I can't like help these boys, like they just run over me. You need to take them. And so we ended moving with my dad at my grandma's house. And so, interestingly enough, that's how my mom always says it was like the perfect setup. Um, they lived right down the street uh in the neighborhood um that I lived in there. And so I find out that so I start hanging out with them, and I'm going there on the weekends and hanging out, and you know, we're partying and and doing everything that you do at parties of that kind, and um, you know, we're smoking, drinking, and doing anything really. There's there's no supervision there. Um, and so I began to meet people from the neighborhood at that time. Um, I've said it before, like I got introduced to that at 13, 14, uh, even 15 years old. Um I I was never I think the very first time I ever met someone that was like uh a gangster was uh this this guy that lived across the street from me, right around the same time, 12 years old, 13 years old. Um his name, his name was actually also Robert. Um and I I started seeing him, and and I had you know family members, uncles, some cousins um that were involved in that, but I was never really involved in that. I knew about it. Um I got experience in the sense of being around it sometimes, but I was never, never, I didn't grow up like that in that kind of sense. Um, and so now um I meet these friends and uh I'm going over there more and more, and I'm I'm I actually get introduced to some of the just a few of the ones I ended up actually really being connected with down the down the road. Um and at first it was just fun, fun and games. Mostly things would happen sometimes that may be more of a serious nature, but it was uh basically just fun and games and and and and partying and things like that. Um and but then I started uh by 16 I was uh in the mix over there and and and getting involved more so, more so, more so. Or I was already involved at this point, getting involved more so throughout those earlier times.

SPEAKER_04 37:18

Um getting involved in what what way you're already used to smoking, drinking, doing all those things.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Smoking, yeah, smoking, drinking, running around. Actually, like real gang, like gang, gangbanging and and and fighting and shooting and all that. Yeah, it yeah, so it it just escalated pretty pretty quickly. Um and then now I mean also in the public school, and like we go to school with each other too. Um at like at this point, um my dad, so I'm like 16 now, my dad comes back to the Lord, and it was this he had a revival in his life and restoration. He went to church one way and came back another way. And it'd been years since I seen my dad live for God. Um and it was like literally like just the prior weeks before where I'm I'm hanging out with him, we're we're doing what we do, right? What had become at that time normal, and all of a sudden he prays through and he comes back from church. I remember him walking in that night, and I could see there was something different about him. And then um he started living for God from there forward. And he's he's he's trying his best, he's living for God, he's he's giving it his all. Uh, he was really he was praying. Now he he not

A Parking Lot Prophecy: Warning From Hope

SPEAKER_01 38:29

only wants restoration with his relationship with God, but he also wanted to have uh restoration with my mom. Um because of what everything had gone through, my mom had already uh moved on from then. She she had already moved on, but he really wanted restoration, and so he's praying to God. And I didn't realize it till later on in life, but the devil used to use me to uh to beat his faith down. He would come to me like, oh, God's gonna do this. And and and I remember particular conversations specifically because I remember hearing myself tell him, Oh, well, you're God, and you're God, and you're God. He says this, but this ain't gonna happen. And and and he would just he would, I would allow him unknowingly, I would allow him to just beat down my dad's faith as my dad's trying, like, no, this is gonna happen, God's gonna work. And but he he really did uh a 180 and he came back to the Lord. He really repented and got right with God. And and so now it went from him being him being uh friends, and and and you know, he's my dad, of course, but we had this friendship and we had these uh you know same things we did together, and now he's trying to tell me like, can't be doing this, can't be doing that, and don't be bringing this to my house, that in my house. And we're so we just start butting heads um consistently uh for about a almost a year. Um and we're just butting heads, but uh he gave me a lot of opportunities. I I'm gonna share the next part, but it he didn't just do it overnight. But um, you know, he he found guns in his home, he found drugs, large amounts of drugs in his home. He came home to parties happen at his house, group, you know, girls being in his he he.

SPEAKER_03 40:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

There's nothing he didn't come in. His son wasn't involved that he didn't catch me at some point and try to detour me and try to talk some sense into me, and I just wasn't having it.

SPEAKER_04 40:08

And so and Bobby, at this point, because I want to go back to something that you said, um you said, you're God, your God, your God. So you'd had the Holy Ghost, clearly you backslid, but some backsliders backslide and they still retain a love for God in their heart. They just fall into things, right? And that takes them down a different road. Do you feel like you like said, Oh, I don't want God anymore, I don't want that anymore, or did you lose your faith completely in him? Um what did that look like for you when your dad came home and said said all that?

SPEAKER_01 40:51

So it didn't have it didn't have any initial impact on me. I remember at the time just thinking, like, oh man, like because I I I knew what church was, and I, you know, I knew that, but I I just never seen him going back to God. And at that point in my life, unfortunately, I had mentioned earlier, like I had got this um let me ask you back up a little bit. So during the time when my dad was backslid, uh my mom initially was would would pray for him all the time. And it was hard for her to function. Like this had been her her her the man that she loved since they were teenagers, and then they they they came to God together, they formed this marriage and home and household and everything together, and then it just it's gone, it's done. My mom was very broken at that time. I remember her coming home from work and going to her bedroom and hearing her in there praying or just crying. And unintentionally, it also left us a little bit no one to watch us a little bit, not in a sense of like neglect, but just you know, we know mom's gonna be in her room, we can do what we're uh kind of dealing. Um, and you know, but she's she's dealing, she's trying to. I remember coming home and sometimes she would cook dinner and and and she would be done, and she would she would go in her room, pray or whatever she needed to do, um, trying to cope emotionally, spiritually. She was trying to be strong. Um, I remember other times when it first happened, as I said, I wasn't fully rebellious at the time. And I remember her telling us, you know, let's pray for your dad, let's pray for your dad, and calling us to the living room. And there's a lot of stuff that happened in that time. We we we got kicked out, not kicked out of our home, but our house got sold, so we had to find another house. And my mom's already financially strapped and and and trying to find another home, and and the car doesn't run all the time. We have to start it with the screwdriver with the starter. I remember looking for a place to rent, and it's during the rainy season in Modesto, and we're going through this huge puddle, and the car stalled out and died in the puddle, and there just saw this stuff going on. And I just started like, man, God, yeah, like, man, God, what is like maybe I ain't praying like that, but I'm thinking that, and and I'm just like, and um, and then my mom's telling us, pray for dad, dad got to come back to God, and we're praying, and I'm just seeing him get worse and worse. Like, I'm right, I'm observing like really what's going on, and not even behind the scenes, just in the general scene, because I'm around him so much. She's not as much, but she knows obviously he's not in the place he's supposed to be. You know, and I I said this one time, and I thought, well, that's that's that's how it was. When I was a kid, I felt like Jesus was tangible. Like I talk to him, he hears me. He's like, I remember he's gonna do the impossible. Yes, yeah, he's in it. Yeah, and I remember being a kid in my home one time, and I had lost a book. It was one of those little skinny, uh, skinny little books that kids have, and I couldn't find it, looking all over for it. And I remember closing my eyes, and I remember telling Jesus, lead me to my book. And I literally felt like, go left, go right, go for it, go straight. And then I walk up and my my legs touch the bottom of our couch, and I opened my eyes, and the couch is in front of me, and I heard the Lord say, Lift the cushion. And I lift up the cushion, and there's my book. Yeah, and I'm like, Whoa, like there's my book. I vividly remember that as a kid, and so to me, God heard me, God listened to me. Yes, and so now at the at the point I'm at, yeah. It's I I remember like I would my mom's my mom would more remind me than I really remember, but she would say, You always made up songs about Jesus, and you're always talking about Jesus, and you made up a song, Jesus is my best friend. Like, I really, really had that tangible childlike faith. He's there, he was there, he hears me. Yeah, well, he was, yeah, yeah, he was. Uh, and so I start getting older, and and then all this stuff starts to happen, and we're praying. I'm seeing everything happen and like the situation of our life, and then of course, like the situation's happening where my friend, where I feel like my friend's parents are pushing me away as well. And I I got resentful toward God, I got resentful to the church. When I was in the world, I couldn't stand not church people, apostolic Pentecostal church people. I couldn't, I even people I knew from church, I'd run into them somewhere. I don't even want to talk to you. Yeah, like you're gonna get a you're gonna get a bad attitude or a bad word from you. You can come talk. I I really just now there were some that were not that way because they were more like family connected in the church with us. Um, they were they were like family, and so I'll actually share something in a minute, but so I had this at this point, I knew God existed, I knew the devil existed, I knew there was a heaven, I knew there was a hell, and I knew I was going to hell. And I didn't really care, and I didn't want to hear you talk to me about God, which put a big friction on me and my mom's relationship because she was always trying to reach out to me and talk to me, and uh, and I put a big distance between me and her, of course, living now. I have a lot of regret about that, but I'm grateful in our latter years I was able to restore and have a really good, awesome, awesome relationship with my mom. Um, but at that time, I just I just anything to do with church, anything to do with God? No, I don't want none of it. I don't want nothing to do with it. And it's funny, my my wife laughs because she says, Oh, he was the only cholo that paid tithe. And the funny

Arrest, Indictments, And Reality Setting In

SPEAKER_01 45:50

thing is, is during this time, I didn't want nothing to do with God. Like, I know I'm going to hell, but I don't need you coming after me, God. You you do, you stay over there, and I'll stay over here, and you do what you do, and I'm gonna do what I do, and I don't want nothing. And matter of fact, here's your tithe because I don't want you coming. I know, I know from being a kid, I know what a tithe is, and I know what happens to people who don't. So here, that's yours. Take it. I don't want nothing to do with it, which is funny. Um, but I had this um fear of God in some sense.

SPEAKER_04 46:20

Um well you understand what you're saying. You clearly right, yeah. You were making a conscious choice. I I yeah, yeah, disillusionment was you were totally disillusioned, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

Totally disillusioned, and that that is hard to recover from. Yes, and and and I I've told people this, and that's a perfect word because I've told people this. Like if you would have came to me back in that time, because now my mindset, well, no wonder I didn't belong at that church, no wonder I couldn't hang around with those friends. I never belonged there in the first place. Right. I disillusioned, I really believed at that time that how I was living, this is what I was born to do. I'm good at it. This I I can do this. I I'm my friends know I can do this. Uh I got this respect, and and and everybody knows I'm drop of a hat. Whatever needs to happen, it's gonna happen. And so in my mind, I really felt like I'm a gangster. Um, that's what I was born to be. That's what I was supposed to be. That's why I would always get in trouble, and that's why so-and-so's mom didn't like me. And and I really believed that. Um, I really believed that lie of the devil. I really, really did uh in my mind. And so um, and so that that's where I was at that point. I remember standing in my living room one day. I was already older by this time, I'm probably like 19 or 18. And I'm standing in my apartment, we're partying there, and a friend of mine, his name's Isaac, uh, was standing next to me. And I don't know what I said, I forget what I said, but I remember what I said after. I said something that made him tell me, Oh, I didn't know you believed in God. And I said, Yeah, I believe in God, and I believe in heaven, and I believe in hell, and I believe there's a devil, and you better enjoy and have fun doing all this, Isaac, because when we die, we're gonna go to hell. And I remember him looking at me like, what? And I was like, You think, bro, look how we live, look what we do. You see all this? You think we're gonna go to heaven? We're evil, we're wicked, Isaac. We're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna go to hell. Um, I'm so thankful that when I was came out of incarceration, the Lord put me back in contact with that man, and I was able to sit across from him one day and tell him, When I told you that all those years ago, that was a lie from the devil. You have an opportunity, you can make it to heaven, Isaac. You don't got to go to hell. God's able to deliver us. Um but that's where I was at in my mind. Um, I like I said, I didn't want nothing to do with anything to do with God, do with the church. And typically, if uh if someone uh would try to, I I either just gave them a shine or if they really pressed on me, I would, I would be mean and uh say something otherwise.

SPEAKER_04 48:45

Bobby, can we uh talk about that for a second? Because I've heard the same sentence from several people, and myself included. You know, when you backslide any sin, you know, like nail polish or any anything that we were taught was sin in the church. Um when you willfully begin to do that and you willfully backslide to find a place to of belonging, like you did, like I did, like so many people do, um the idea is okay, we're now sinning, we are gonna go to hell. Like there's not even a question of grace. There's not even any sort of knowledge that like that God would forgive us, and that some of this is just part of a a greater process that God is using to teach us who we are. But you know, um I I I don't even know what my question is. I get I get stumped sometimes because of this, but I I know that I've heard it from current backsliders that feel like they're just gonna go to hell and and then people like us that did backslide, and that's what we believed. Do you feel like it took your all the barriers away? Because once you believe you're going to hell, it's kind of no holds barred after that.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

Yeah, yeah, most definitely. Um, I I even sometimes it it's astounding sometimes looking back and knowing where my mind was at at certain times, like what I knew and did at times, but knew what I what I could do. Like I just knew like I don't have any problem doing that uh or being this way, or or uh there was no conscience. And matter of fact, I I've said this to people over the years. I remember when I got my conscience back, uh, when I when I came back to God, where I started feeling bad about things and bad about situations. Um but I there was a there was a point where my I didn't have a conscience anymore, my conscience left. Um I was I wouldn't give over to the horses of God. Uh and so um, yes, I it was just this knowing like I know what I got coming. And so my my whole thing was like, and I said before, like, just leave me alone, God. Like, just I'm gonna I'm gonna go as far as I can for as long as I can, and when my time's up, it is, but until then I don't I don't need nothing else. I remember even telling people, like, I remember my dad came back to God, he was and doing great and living for God now, and God eventually uh you know uh gave him some uh uh he was married again, had a family, you know, just you know, God began to do a great work in his life, and people would reference him to me and I would tell him my dad needs God, I don't need God. You see what he got in, you see how far he went? Like, I don't, I'm not that like I don't I'm not I'm not an addict. I'm not all the you know, like he needs God. I don't need God. I can do this on my own, I can do life on my own, I don't need God. Um, and so um that was my attitude. Like, I don't, I don't need you, God. Um, and so I I and my mind, I and I, and I believe looking back, the hurt was because, or my my bitterness towards God was because I as a child absolutely believed that he heard me. And when I felt when I felt like I need

First Prayers In Max And A Deal With God

SPEAKER_01 52:01

you the most, not even there, yeah. And then so that's that was my attitude.

SPEAKER_04 52:06

Like so now that you're older and your life is restored, how do you interpret that experience now? Why do you think God didn't answer you then when you needed him? Why do you think he was silent?

SPEAKER_01 52:21

So I I know what I learned um late, like looking back and understanding. So so my thing was this with God, right? I remember praying as a kid during that time, and I felt like God, you're supposed to grab my dad and put him back in the church. Like I didn't have no understanding that man makes his own. Yeah, just do it, just grab him and put like you're God, you can just do anything, be sovereign, live for you. Yes, um, oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 52:43

So I used to feel that way, same, and I feel like my disillusionment came in a very similar way because when I really needed him, he wasn't there, and I didn't know what to do with that. I just lost my faith, you know.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, and so that was that was how I see it. Like, you you can do this and you're not doing it. Um, and of course, as I later on looking back, I'm like, well, I didn't understand that he my dad has to make a choice. My my dad has to make free will. My dad has to it has to do, he has to do this on his own, he has to make this choice himself. No one can do this for him. And and I mean, I know you know God in his love and his mercy, looking upon a child praying for him, would love to do that because he knows, you know, but he's not gonna, you like you said a moment ago, he's not gonna go against a man's free will, a woman's free will, anyone needs free will. It has to be, he has to be your choice. You have to choose him back. He chooses you, you have to choose him back.

SPEAKER_04 53:40

And so And for anybody listening, uh sorry to interrupt. We have such a delay in our time. So for anybody listening, if you are praying for somebody that is not come back to God yet, trust and believe God is working in that situation. He will trouble them, he will send people to them, he will put thoughts in their mind, he will give them dreams. God is working on them. Your prayers matter, and they do uh they are effective. Um, it's just that we don't see it, and and God is trying to move their free will along to a place of submission. So I just wanted to interject that. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 54:23

Yeah, no, absolutely. Then that's a perfect interjection. And and even actually, you said something which which uh triggered a thought. Um and so I'm at this place now. I'm I'm uh I'm 19. I'm 19 years old and uh have already been away from God for those years and involved in a lot of stuff uh throughout that time, some I've shared already. Um, but but I was living that life. For those that come from that life, you know what that is. And for those that didn't come from that life, it's it's a it's a hard, ugly life. And uh the the drugs, the the alcohol, everything. It's it's it's it's a hard, ugly life. It's a violent life. And yeah, and for me, because I I I've told people this for me, hanging out with that gang did not make it be violent. I had all this stuff inside. Yes, that it was it just came down. So it was an outlet now. Like I could I could harm, I could hurt, I could, I could get it out. Um, and so it wasn't like hanging around those those those young men and those young ladies. It wasn't like hanging around that specific gang made me a it's what was already inside that came now was able to now shove it and be it. Um and so uh I'm 19 years old and I'm driving to my this is so this is where God I've you know I know he spoke to me through my mom at times and so forth, but I think this was the time that he just let me really see like it's more than that, but I didn't catch it at that time. But I'm driving, I'm 19 years old, I'm driving to a friend of mine's house. Um I'm in uh the city that I'm from, and I'm about to make a left on this main road, and I'm sitting there, I'm in my car. Um I got my music on, it's really loud. Uh you know, there's bass and stuff, and I'm sitting there, and all of a sudden I hear, I I think I hear, Bobby, Bobby Rodella. And I'm like, and I was like, am I tripping? Um and I heard it again, Bobby, Bobby Rodella, and it's sounding now like it's coming from over here from my from my right side, my passenger side. And so there's a big van that is taller than my car because my car is low. And so I lean down to look to see who it is, and as I look over, the person in the van just looks away, and so I'm like, and I know it's a woman, I see her hair, and I'm like, and I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, I must be tripping. Um, and so I'm sitting there and I hear it again, Bobby, Bobby Rodella, and I look again, and this time she stays looking at me, and it's Sister Hope Lazata. Now, um, the Lozadas are a family friend of ours, as I said, some some at the church. We we we were all we even shared a residence together, we were always together. Um and so I see her and I automatically recognize it's it's Sister Hope, and um, and I'm like, what in the world? And she says, pull over, I need to talk to you, pull over. And I'm like, What? I need to talk to you, pull over. All right, so I was kind of like, All right, it's kind of weird, but all right. So I she goes straight, she flips a UI, comes back, I make a left into the gas, into the street, and into the gas station that's right there, and I pull up next to the pumps, she pulls up and parks next to the store, and I get out of my car because I'm just curious, like, what's happening? Like, what's what's up? And uh she gets out of her van, and as she gets out of her van, she turns towards me, starts walking. Like, I just see her whole face is just wet, she has tears just

Two Masters: The Turning Point

SPEAKER_01 57:41

off down her face, and she comes up to me and she says, I'm so glad you stopped. I need to talk to you. And I was like, Okay, what's up? And she says, God, God sent a word to you from me. I need to speak a word of the Lord to you. And I'm like, eh, like, well, they're like, All right, like what? What do you what do you want? Um, and she said, and then she started just telling me, she said, for the last two months, I don't know if it was two, for the last few months anyway, last several months, she said, the Lord began to uh uh put you on my heart, and I've been praying for you. She said, And I've been praying for you and praying for you. She says, and just recently, God gave me a word for you, and he told me you need to tell him. So I told God, I don't know where he's at. I haven't seen him in years, I don't know what he's up to. I don't know any, I don't know anything. How am I supposed to give him this word? And God said, Uh, you need to give him this word. And so she goes, Today I don't usually go this way home. She said, I usually go around the other way. She said, But today when I pulled up to the light, I sat there just for a moment, and God said, There he is, tell him. She said, I knew it was you because I knew God told me to give you a word. She said, So I looked, and when I looked, she said, I see some gangbanger, he's all in red. I had him on Goliath. I just looked way different. And so she didn't recognize me. And she said, and I called you, and then when you looked at me, I really didn't recognize you. I just looked away and I told God, that's not him. That's not him. And she said, and she said, God said, That's him. Tell him. She said, and and sure enough, she's all she's like, and she's telling me, like, you should know that this is from God because I could not pick you out of a crowd. I don't even recognize you. She goes, and she's crying, she's very, like, like, she's very emotional. She's crying. She's like, she's like, so you you should be aware, like you should know that this really is God. He wants to speak to you. And I was like, okay, all right, hopefully. And at the time, I'm really hard-hearted towards God. It's it's not registering on me in any kind of, I'm getting a little annoyed now because like she's crying and talking to me, and I'm like in the middle of a parking lot, and I'm in an area where like I I'm maybe well known in that area too. Yeah, yeah. And so I'm like, uh, yeah. So so so I'm just kind of like, so I start kind of like already start pulling at the wall a little bit, but she's not just someone that I went to church with, she was she's family to us in that sense. Like, we I grew up with her, like, so I'm like giving her a little bit of courtesy, like and listening to her. I feel like at the time that's what I'm feeling like. I just give her a little courtesy, like, all right. And so she's and I said, What? What did it? You know what do you got to tell me? She says, God wants me to tell you that you better start live stop living the way you're living and doing the things that you're doing, and you need to come back to him. And if you don't, he will allow something to happen to you. And uh I said, All right. And she starts crying more, and she's like, I wish you would take this seriously. I was like, I I you know, Hope, I I just don't care. I really don't. I just I don't I don't care. It doesn't I don't care. Um, and she's like, the Lord has really sent me here, and she's trying to convince me the best she can, and I'm just not having it.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:33

And uh did you believe that the Lord had sent her, but you just were uninterested?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:39

Um at the time, maybe not. No, I I I think I think maybe I was like, eh, like she knows me. Like, did she really not recognize me? Maybe those thoughts were going through my mind. I know it impact me, like I didn't feel God, and it didn't like, whoa, like I wasn't worried about anything being done right then. I was just like, all right. Um, so I don't think I I would think if I believed her, I would have been like, oh, like, you know, but nothing registered. I was just like, nah. Um, so then she says, Um, well, I'm gonna keep praying for you. And she says, Can I pray for you? And I told her, I don't pray hope. I hadn't prayed since I was back at that time as a kid, like I didn't talk to God anymore. I didn't pray. Um, the most acknowledgement was that tithe. And it wasn't like I was, I was just like, here's your tithe. Um, but I didn't pray, I didn't talk to God. It had been years. Um, and so she tells me, Can I pray with you? And I told her, I don't pray hope. I haven't prayed since I was a kid. And uh she says, uh, but can I pray with you? I said, I'll tell you what, because of who you are, I'll let you pray for me, but I'm not gonna pray. You want to pray for me? I'll let you, but I'm not gonna pray. She said, Okay. And so I remember crossing my arms and she laid her hand on my shoulder and she started praying like she was a Sunday night service and talking in tongues in the parking lot. And I remember standing there, people walking by looking at us, and I'm looking at them like, she's crazy, she's crazy, like she's crazy. Um, and she's just praying and she's just asking God's mercy, and just she's just praying, she's pouring her heart heart out to God. I looking back over the years, as I remember that memory, I know like she was burdened in love and in and in hope that God would do something for me. Yeah, and she was praying, she was praying, and and I didn't catch none of that at the time. I just was like, all right, like let her pray. And she gets done, and I said, All right. And she said, Can you do me one more favor? So, like at this point, I'm getting like a little irritated now. Like, man, I've done pulled over. You I let you pray before you've been talking to me. I let you talking in tongues, everyone's walking around. Like, I'm I'm kind of like at my end point with it now. Like at that time, that's what I'm thinking. I'm like, all right, hope I let you one more thing and that's it. And she says, if I ever show up somewhere and you know I'm not supposed to be there, will you leave with me? And I was like, What? Like, she says, Because I'm gonna pray God's mercy over you, and I'm gonna pray that before he allows whatever, and she told me, she said, before he allows whatever it is, she's like, I don't know what it is, Bobby. I don't know if it's death, I don't know if it's uh a medical situation, I don't know what it is, but I just know that God has told me if you don't come back to him, he will allow it. She says, and I'm gonna ask God to let me stand in the gap. And if you see Sister Hope show up at a party where you know she wouldn't be, and you're there with all your homeboys, and I come in the middle of it and to drag you out, will you just leave with me? Will you just please give me that? And I said, sure. Hope if you show up at a party and ask me to leave with you, I'll go with you. But other than that, all right, all right, thank you. Like, all right, and I remember watching her walk off crying and and emotional, still burdened, I know, um, still prop, still prayerful, I know. Um, but I remember that particularly later because at that point, when I leave, there's just a maybe a minute or two, and it's just a gone memory. Like that was weird. Um, and and that was it. Never thought about it again, never gave it a consideration. That was it. And then fast forwarding, um, I'm now 20 years old, and I get arrested for the case that I caught, and they booked me, they put me in my jumpsuit, and they go and stick me in holding. And I remember walking in, and then I heard those doors slam behind the bars. As soon as I heard those bars, she pops in my head, and I thought, uh, this is the thing. This is what God said he was gonna allow. And uh, and it just struck me for a moment. Just for that moment, I was like, oh man. And I I know I had the thought when I when that memory came, I remember thinking like, oh, I'm stuck. Um but of course I get with my my my friend that got arrested with me, and I'm like, man, that's gonna happen, everything's gonna work out. Uh, it'll be all right. And uh we had no hope in that situation, really, but I was just trying to be positive, I guess. Um, but that was my first memory. Uh, and that wasn't when I first came, I didn't come to God at that point, but that was just thought it struck me and sat there. And later at the time when I did start praying again, reading the Bible again, um, that memory was in my head. Uh, and I, you know, that was that's where I was at that moment.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:08

Yeah. What uh

Revelation Of Jesus And Longing For Renewal

SPEAKER_04 1:05:10

how long were you? Did you do time at that point?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:14

No, so I had only been to juvenile hall at that point, and when I went to juvenile hall, it was only for a couple days.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:19

Um my dad came and picked me up when they I meant at 20 when you caught that case. Did you end up doing time on that case for a while?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:27

Yeah, so that was my that was my first and and only like major case in that kind of regard. Um, I uh I was 20 years old and I ended up getting out when I was 31 years old.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:37

So the situation um You don't have to if you don't want to.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:41

No, no, no, it's okay. Um if I seem conscious, it's it's more so because um so my situation's a little different than Brother Mike's. Um and so I uh if I see if I've if I if it seems like I'm choosing my awards, it's because I'm just trying to uh share as much and be as transparent as possible, but also know too that uh my situation touched other people's lives, families, mother, father, um siblings of someone else. So um I just want to be cautious and respectful of that. Um so uh 19 years old, I've already been doing this for a little bit and what I was involved in. Um, and we end up getting in what basically it was a territory war, really, um, with another gang. Um when it when everything happened and it was in the newspapers, it was it was uh the the Modesto police department tried to uh spin it that it was a drug war. It had nothing to do with drugs. Um it was mostly over territory and a bunch of prideful violent young men that just didn't like each other and wasn't gonna let each other take each other's territory uh situation. And um, and so we started started into it, and there was a lot to happen, uh, a lot of fights, the walkbys, drive-by, shootouts, just it was pretty violent in its nature, everything that happened. Um and uh there was some primary people, myself and some others on our side, and and and some individuals on the other that um were the um were the uh pushing it to happen because of uh circumstances. And so um circumstances that happened. And so we uh we're in the middle of all this, and it's happened, all this stuff, like I said, a lot of just violent stuff's going on, and um in the middle of it all, uh a young man is is killed, um, shot. Uh and that's it that ends up being what um I get arrested for. It's not a secret thing, like I said, I'm just trying to be careful for the sake of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:50

Yeah, no, that's okay. But uh we got we have some backsliders currently on our prayer list that is uh incarcerated for similar things, and so um yeah, you you know, and and that I can imagine that it just feels so much bigger than anything they can overcome. And I can't imagine for you coming back to God and what that would be like um living with that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:22

Yeah, yeah. And so we're we're all in the age frame, probably 18, 19, 20 years old, the majority of us uh on both sides, and and and he was he was 19 years old. And uh and so that happens, and um I end up going on the run for a while. Uh my brother Ruben also ends up going on the run for a while. Uh and we now know that there's an arrest, an arrest warrant for us, and some others as well. Um and so um eventually uh I get arrested. Um and as I said earlier, I I have that one thought on that day of being arrested, and you know, I get incarcerated, I'm in the I'm in the jail. And initially, even after that thought, like I said, it struck me, but I don't know, for lack of a better way to explain it, I wasn't gonna let it struck me. We'll get out of this. And so I'm telling my friend, and uh my brother's still on the run at this time. Um, and I'm telling my friend, like, ah, don't worry about it, bro. Like, not they ain't got nothing on us, like they're just messing with us, they just arrested us. I remember him telling me at the time, like, nah, I think they do, bro. Like, I don't think they would have arrested us if they didn't. And so at first, I'm at first I'm I'm maybe have a little bit of optimism at initially. And then I end up finding out they they they arrested a lot more than just me and him that day. They arrested like 14 people that day from our from our neighborhood, from our side of things. And uh some start telling, and uh they you know, they they had everything they needed uh on the on the law side of things um to put some I've seen people go to prison like 50% against them. Like they had like maybe 50% of what they needed and they went. And us, they had like a hundred plus. Um, we had you know, the home at the time the homeboys are telling, um, they have the weapons, they have everything. There's nothing they don't have.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:20

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:20

Um, in addition to that, um, the lead detective on my case and the lead DA were both uh very good at making sure men get locked up. I'm not gonna say they weren't doing their job, but they knew how to do loopholes and they knew how to how to do things. Um matter of fact, one yeah, they knew how to yeah, they they yeah, they they had that going for them. Um and you know, that that's their that's their job in some sense. They would probably do a few things that were outside of their job, um top their job details, but they did what they did in order to make it happen. And so we had that against us. Um, I got grand jury indicted. Me and uh uh me and several others got grand jury indicted. Um that that's a bad news situation, getting grand jury indicted. Um the DA made a mistake during that time, and so we ended up actually being able to get the grand jury indictment thrown out. Um, and then they re-indicted us, re uh grand jury indicted us again, and this time they added charges. So it's now we were looking at 12 charges, wow, uh, 36 enhancements, uh, 420 years, three L's, two life without, we're never going home.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:33

Yeah. Um and what were you feeling at the time? What were you feeling at the time facing that? Like, did you have like a reality check?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:43

So for me, yes, that's exactly what I had. So for me, that reality check is what down the line uh is where I started um in a way to turn back towards God. I remember um you know, time has gone on, now all these things are known. This is happening, this person's talking against you, this is what we got, this is what's happening. You're getting reindicted, now you got 12 charges, you're looking at enhancements this many years. Um and so the the realization, like, oh man, like this is real. And I remember this is this is actually the first time I prayed since I was a kid. And I remember being up really late. I've always referenced it was probably like one or two o'clock in the morning. I remember my celly was asleep, and he was actually one of my one of my friends from from the neighborhood, and he's they arrested him too. He didn't even have nothing to do with it, but he they arrested him too. And uh at the time, um and so I remember him being asleep, and I

Seven Years Without Tongues And The Breakthrough

SPEAKER_01 1:12:40

remember walking back and forth in the cell, and I was just thinking about everything, it just everything against me, what's happening. And I'm just I'm I'm we call it pacing, I'm just pacing back and forth. And uh, and then as I'm starting to realize all this, the thought starts to come to me like, man, this is it. And I walk up to the door and I look out the little window, and I'm in maximum security because of my case. Um, and so it's a it's a it's a very tight lockdown situation, and so I'm in max, they call it B Max. I'm in max and I'm looking out the little window and lights out, and I just and it dawns on me. Like I'm looking out the window and I'm like, I'm gonna spend the rest of my life looking out a little window like this. And the best way I can describe how I felt at that point, the only way thing I can compare it to is when someone breaks your heart. Um like yeah, like just it's it felt like, ah. And that was actually the first time I prayed since I was a kid. And uh it wasn't it it wasn't a prayer of repentance. At that point, I didn't even feel bad for what I what I knew, like I did and what I was a part of, and like I didn't have any conscience towards that. I just knew that I was in a messed up situation, and it's no way of getting out of this. I knew that, and I remember telling God, like, there's no way of me getting out of this. And I remember telling him, just give me a chance. And I didn't tell him I'd serve him, I live for him, I love him. I didn't tell him any of that. I just told him, just give me a chance. I want to go home, just give me a chance, and uh, and that was it. That was that was the sum of my prayer. I I've always referred to it, it was a very selfish prayer because it wasn't anything to do with me living or loving or serving him, but I just just give me a chance. And so some time went on, and a little later I thought about that moment, I thought about that time, and I was like, Well, I prayed that time. Maybe I maybe I should start praying again. Um so I started taking some time to pray and here and there, and then I was like, maybe I should get a Bible, maybe I should start reading the Bible. Um, and so I get the Bible and I'm reading, and go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:41

When you were praying when you started again, what what what what was that like? Were you like testing the water to see if God was listening? Were you just kind of you know putting fillers out to see if okay, how it feels for you to just start the conversation again? Like or was it like heartfelt, you know, okay, God, desperation?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:09

Yeah, no, that's a great question, actually, because um I would have not thought of it as that way back then, but that is what I was doing. Um and I and I said that's a perfect question because uh I had started doing that, and it was just like praying for like the day, praying for my mom, you know, just a little prayers, just you know, yeah. Um but but exactly how you describe it, that's exactly what's happening. And so uh what so like for all of a sudden out of nowhere, like a little bit of time has gone on. I've been praying like that, I've been reading the Bible a little bit, and a little time goes on, and like for a span of two to three weeks, all of a sudden, every morning when I feel when I wake up, I feel guilty. And I'm like, I didn't know really what it was at the time. I just woke up every morning feeling heavy, and I'm like, I couldn't even refer to it as guilt at the time. What I know is now, what I know was now.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:03

It's calling you to repentance.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:05

Yes, and I didn't know that at the time, and so I didn't recognize that at the time. And so I'm just waking up every day feeling really heavy, and uh and it goes on for, like I said, two or three weeks, and it and it just it's there, it's like it's there during the day, and I'm like, and finally um I remember that this particular day, I wake up and I'm feeling like that already, and I'm like, man, like I can't stand this, like I don't want to feel like this no more. And then and as I'm thinking that I felt like maybe I should pray about it. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna pray about that today. So I I go and I start praying, and and I'm telling God, I don't, you know, I don't know why I'm feeling like this, but could you help me? Just take this from me, you know. And as I'm praying, all of a sudden I realize, oh, you're making me feel like this. And I got mad. And I'm like, why are you making me? And I remember I'm arguing, like I'm I'm like, my Mike, the way I talked and acted, my everything was way different back then. I'm just I'm I'm mad, and I'm like, why are you making me feel like this? And I start like telling God all the good points that I'm I'm trying to do better, I'm praying, I'm reading the Bible, trying to watch what I say, I'm I'm limiting myself and how involved I am with things and and trying to do a little better and be better. And you're making me feel bad for this. Like I'm I'm like upset. Like you're making me feel bad for trying to be good.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:22

Um and as I'm because you didn't have a revelation about repentance and the need for it, right? No, no, and I I think a lot of us didn't and don't. Like, I don't think there's because when you grow up in church, like we took so much for granted. We just kind of did what we were supposed to do without real clear understanding of what anything means. I used to say to people, oh, I understand the cross, I know why Jesus had to die, but I never, I never had it experientially, you know, uh until I began to understand it as an adult. I just I had knowledge, but it was so different when when you suffer a loss and you feel like, you know, when you when you get it for real. So um I I love that you got mad. I I love it in the sense that I I tell people a lot when I get kiddos that come into therapy, I will pick a fighter any day of the week over someone that's passive and just very sad because I feel like a fighter, at least there's something you can work with there. They're they're passionate about something versus people that just go in and get very lonely and very sad. That's a much more difficult situation to reach them because they're pretty hopeless. So your anger was a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:48

I, you know, just my uh observing.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:51

Go on.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:52

Yeah. So I start getting like this argument, and the more I argue, it get like that feeling. Like I said it one time, like it felt like an elephant was sitting on my back, it got heavier and heavier and heavier and heavier. And finally, I'm I'm I'm even trying to like tell him, like, God, you know where I'm at? Like, this ain't Disneyland. Like, I gotta do what I gotta do. You know why I do what I do. And I'm like trying to reason with him and tell him, like, this is why we do what we do, this is why I'm involved in with what I'm involved in, this is why I have to do certain things. And I'm like trying to, I'm I'm trying to explain to him about uh certain aspects of justifying.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:29

You're justifying your behavior, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:33

Yeah, so I'm going through all that, and like I said, it's just heavier and heavier, and finally it got to the point where I was just so like I couldn't deal with that weight. It's the best way I could say I couldn't deal with it. And I remember telling him, All right, what do you want me to do? Just tell me what to do, and I'll do it. But stop making me feel like this. I don't want to feel like this no more. Stop making me feel like this. What do you want me to do? And it was silent, and I didn't hear nothing. I'm like, and I get up, I'm all mad, I get my Bible, I sit down, I throw it on my lap, and I open it. Up and I looked down, and it was the very first time God spoke to me out of his word. And I read the words, but it was like they spoke, like they came off the page, like I heard it. Like it, and I read, You cannot serve two masters.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:11

And I was like, Oh wow!

SPEAKER_01 1:20:13

And what it did, you see you said

“I Never Left You”: Falling In Love With Jesus

SPEAKER_01 1:20:15

a moment ago, like I didn't realize it then, like I was putting out fillers, but right then I realized oh, you hear me. Like you're listening to me. I was just arguing with you about this. And it was like this this revelation, really. Like, oh you're listening to me. You're hearing me. And um, he began to speak to me and to tell me, you're gonna, you gotta, you gotta choose. Choose your master. You're not gonna you're either gonna serve me or you're gonna serve the North, but you're not gonna serve both. Choose. And that when and it's I I've shared this with you because uh when God spoke to me like that, it gave me the resolve. Okay, God, all right, it's me and you then. You're gonna you you're gonna be with me in this, you're telling me to do this, okay. I'm gonna do it. And so at that point, I started, it was a gradual thing, it didn't happen overnight, but I started pulling back more. And and I but now I'm doing it because I'm like, you told me, you told me.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:12

So were you still angry at him, or were you starting to trust him again, or you were just really clear that A, he's listening, and B, he's giving you direction for the first time in all those years.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:23

Yes, that's what it is. I'm like, oh, it amazed me. It like it like it. I I tell people I use the I've used the word before, like it blew my mind. I was like, whoa, that's wild. Like, yeah, like it was the first it was the first time I realized like my parents just ain't bouncing off the ceiling. Like, like I've been here praying and I've been here reading the Bible, but and they never probably were, they never were. Yeah, no, they weren't. He was listening, yeah, yeah. And so that's that's initially where I started really having like a turn of my heart toward God. Like I didn't, I like I said at the time, I I I hadn't got I hadn't got everything situated with him. I didn't even know what that really meant in full, but I just started making the decision, like, all right, God, you heard me and you answered me right now? That that's amazing. Like, that's that's whoa, like, yeah, all right, all right, like I'll do it.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:18

Um you had a true reverence and a fear of the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:26

Yeah, yeah, and I yeah, exactly. Like I said, that's why I never lost that. No, I don't think even like there's a particular cuss word that people use, I wouldn't use it. Like, I knew like if they use that particular cuss word, you're referencing God, and I'm good, I'm not trying to do nothing to make him upset at me. He can do what he does, I just don't want nothing to do with him, just leave me alone. So, so I remember um I and I remember thinking that to myself one day, one day when I heard someone, and I'm like, oh I'm like, you you don't even know, dude. Uh but to me, like I didn't, like I said, still I didn't want to love him, serve him, have a relationship with him. I just didn't want nothing to do with him. But I knew there were certain things that you get yourself in hot water, and I wasn't my my hot days are my hot time is coming, I know that, but right now I'm gonna live the best my quote unquote my best life. I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do. Um and so now though, my my heart, um, my heart began to change in the sense of of I I I now realize like, okay, God, like, all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna start being a little more dedicated to this. I'm gonna start praying a little more and reading the Bible a little more. And I I go and tell my mom for the first time at a visit, and she lights up and she's like, Wow, okay, like wow, like she's she's so happy. Like, and um it was a very gradual thing to me. Um it was like in, I don't know, like people say like seasons or stages, things of that like it, yeah. It just it it was like this gradual thing. Not that I would, not that my graduality wasn't in in in respect to like acknowledging him or that, but like how much I was giving of myself to him. Because I was willing to do that, but there was still some stuff about Robert that I just wasn't willing to, I'm not ready to surrender there yet, God. And I didn't know that at the time, to be honest. Um, probably or probably probably a little bit of Rob. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:15

Um because that was the thing that gave you probably some identity and self, some strength, because you had lost it as a kid. That and that piece is really hard to surrender.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:28

Yeah. And so and so time begins to go on. I I I start like uh dedicating myself more to God in the sense of studying, reading the Bible, giving Bible studies. I start being very, I start being vocal and witnessing to people and telling people. I wanted I there, and then there became a time like I want to get renewed with the Holy Ghost. Um, I remembered it as a key, like I said, some of my best, I remember in those initial years, like closing my eyes, and I could hear uh Pastor Keys preaching, like I could hear messages like like clear, like memory and preaching about a certain thing, remembering about youth camp and preaching. And I remember just laying there on my bunk in the middle of the night and just listening, like I could hear it. Um and so I I start I start coming to a place where uh I want the Holy Ghost again, I want to get renewed again. I'm reading every scripture I can find about it, I'm studying about it. Uh I want to receive it. I fasted because I was like, I'm gonna fast, I'm gonna get the Holy Ghost again. And uh, you know, maybe if I do this, I'll get the Holy Ghost again. And I'm just doing everything I think I can do to get the Holy Ghost. Um, and then the whole time I'm I'm still in maximum security. I did seven and a half years of maximum security. Um, that's a confined environment to the ninth degree. Uh, you come out every other day um and you go to another little room that has a phone, a toilet, and a TV. I didn't lose my mind because God kept me saying that's the only reason I didn't lose my mind because I've seen even people I know that ended up back there that literally lost their minds. It's a very ugly environment.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:51

Was that due to but I spent that time was that due to your gang affiliation or due to your charges?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:58

Due to my charges. Yeah, due to my charges. Anyone that was in there for that was map uh was considered a maximum security inmate. Um, so so that whole environment was was very harsh, but at the same time, like it sounds funny, but it was needed because I needed that time to absorb the word. I needed that, yeah. I I needed that. Um, and so I'm reading the Bible again, I'm um, I'm praying, I'm I'm I'm I'm reaching out to people. There's like the there's events in jail, and people that have been there will know you can get up in the van and talk to your neighbors, your next door neighbor who's ever above you to the pipe well, and to the you know, there's a different ways to communicate. So I'm talking to people and I'm witnessing to people. And like I said, I don't know uh this portion of it, but when like if you're talking about God, I just thought Seven Denai, UPC Church of Modesto, that was what I knew God. So it's Jesus. If you if you're talking God, I'm just thinking it's Jesus. And I remember talking to a guy upstairs one day, and we had a lengthy conversation, and we're both talking about God, and he's talking about God, I'm talking about God. And um, I remember we get we're I didn't know it was gonna be like the closing of the conversation, but like he says, uh I said, Man, Jesus

Jailhouse Revival And Mass Baptisms

SPEAKER_01 1:27:10

is good, and he says, and God's good too. And I was like, huh? And I was like, What do you mean? Jesus is God, and he's like, No, he's not. I'm like, Yeah, he who you've been talking about this whole time. I'm talking about Jesus. And uh later on I found out he was Jehovah's Witness, actually, but I didn't know that at the time. And so the whole time we're talking, he's talking about God, I'm just thinking it's Jesus. And so, like I said, at that point in life, if anybody talked about God, I would just think it was Jesus. But all of a sudden, all these thoughts come to me. Now, you gotta consider the fact too, like, I'm I'm just coming back to God still. Yeah, there's still some things that God's healing in my life. I I didn't come back to God with the intention of coming back to apostolic faith or or being connected to to Pentecost. Um, to be honest, there was times I thought my mom and dad probably didn't have it right because look what happened in their marriage. And like, so I'm coming back to yeah, I'm coming back to God, but it ain't like I'm coming, I want, I want this, what I now have with them. I I just and and now it's it's a little to be honest, I'm hearing all this other stuff, and now I'm getting a little confused, like, well, I never even knew like that stuff existed. And so I remember and had already been reading the Bible for a little while, um, uh enough to be very familiar with the Bible I was reading. And so I remember uh there was a time period, and that in that particular evening, I remember I started praying, and I was just telling God, God, I want to know you for myself. Not not just be not just because of who my dad or my mom or a Sunday school teacher or or preacher told me. I I want you for myself, I need to know you for myself. And I remember praying that, and as I'm praying that, a scripture comes to mind. So I get my Bible and I open it up, and it was like one scripture, like I felt God tell me, turn here. And I'm I'm turning my Bible back and forth, and I'm reading all these scriptures, and as I'm reading, like it's like go over here to this side of your Bible, and I'm like, and go here, and I'm like, and I'm just turning, I'm just looking. Like I said, I'm I was very familiar with that particular Bible at that time, and all of a sudden, and reading all these, reading all this scripture, I get the revelation of Jesus, and I'm like, Oh, you are God, there is no other God, you're God alone, you created all things, you are that living word. Like it was like this, just like my own revelation, like God show me, like I am Jesus. And and I was like, and it's one of those things like the world didn't give, they say that's a phrase like the world didn't give it to me, world can't take it away. Like, no one gave this to me. Jesus showed himself through his word, and it was revelatory in that time. Like, man, God, like, all right. And so now, now my my my were before, like when the when this different conversation had, I was like, Oh, I don't know then, man, I'm not really sure. Now it was like, nah, Jesus is God. You want to see in the word, you want to study the Bible, you want to look in scripture, let's go, I'll show you. Um, and so and and so I had like this more, this more understanding about really who God is. Um, and so God showed me that. And so and it was after that down the road that I start wanting the Holy Ghost again and and praying. So I'm doing the same thing, I'm reading all these scriptures, and I'm and I'm like, man. And during that time, um I remembered the experience as a kid at certain points, and there would be times where I would go and pray, and I could feel God, like I could feel the presence of God. I'd even like get stammering lips and start crying a little bit, like look, some tears would come, and but I would just never start talking in tongues. I'd never feel like all in my mind, I'm like, I know there's something awesome that happens when you get filled with the Holy Ghost. Like, I remember that as a kid, like I know this is not it, I know this is not all. But the other part of it was because I would start going through these thoughts, and and um, I didn't recognize it back then right away, but then I at some point I recognized, like, oh, this is the devil coming against my mind. Like, because I would hear, like, God ain't gonna fill you with the Holy Ghost. Look who you are, look what you've done, look what you're in here for. Like, He's never, and and the one thing it would always come back to He would it would always be said in my ear, He left you. That was it. That was that every time, like He and I would have to like ask God, help me, God. Like, I'd be I'll be really praying, like, help me, God, help me. Like, I don't want to think this. I don't I know I know you're able and and and I just it would never happen, it would never happen. And it wasn't all the time, there was there were seasons of times where I would seek the Holy Ghost like that, and it just it would never happen for seven and a half years, it would never happen. Wow, and so eventually, um, after I've got all this time with God and study and prayer, I'm I'm telling other people about getting the Holy Ghost. Like, you need the Holy Ghost, God'll fill you, God will fill you with the Holy Ghost in that cell, or just um, because I know that's what His word says, and what your word says happens, God. That's all I know. I don't know why it hasn't happened for me yet, but that's what your word says, so this is how it happens. So and so I I was that minded, like so. I'm just preaching and teaching and doing what I need to do. And then eventually, yeah, yeah. Like God's that's what God says, that's what God does. Yeah, um, and so eventually what happens is I'm still uh still fighting my case, and they take me out of Macs, they give me an opportunity to go to an open pod, and I get to the open pod, and there ends up being um uh a little circle of guys that are like Bible studying together. Um, and so it's very interesting how it happened. They had someone that was leading them. I meet him, he had heard about me. A lot of people knew about us because we had been there for so long. Um, we were the oldest booking number in that county at that time for being incarcerated for such a long duration of time fighting a case. Um, and so um, so I meet him, he he had heard about me. We we we get along right away, me and me and him. And then all of a sudden he's supposed to like start his trial. So he's like, Hey, you want to take the Bible study over from me? I had never done a Greek Bible study or anything like that, but I'm like, Yeah, all right, I'll I'll try. And so I started giving Bible study. And at the time, my my bishop, he's my pastor at the time, my pastor's coming in. Um, some brothers from the church start coming in, a brother from uh from another city, a brother from another city starts coming in. Um, and they begin to visit, and we begin to have these Bible studies, and uh it began to grow, it got, it got, it just began to grow. People begin to come and we're having these awesome. We're having so best way I can describe it is I've never been that close to the book of Acts, except then like it was daily, we were together daily, and we were Bible studying daily, and we would have prayer times together, and I see people get healed. I literally like I watched we prayed a prayer was made for someone's mom. She was dying of cancer. He was she was never getting seen again by her son. He's gonna do two more years, she's gonna be dead by the time he gets out, she can't get off her sickbed. God healed her, she came to the jail and told her son, I don't know what happened, but it's all kinds, all these amazing things were happening. Um, there was over a hundred plus men that were baptized in Jesus' name by the time uh but and continued after I left too, but by the time I left, um

Legal Crossroads, Denied Writ, And Purpose

SPEAKER_01 1:33:40

just God was working in there. God was doing yeah, yeah, God was doing amazing things, and uh and so um I had wanted to get re-baptized. I talked to my bishop about it, my pastor at the time, and I told him, you know, I I want to get rebaptized. I got baptized when I was six. Uh I've I don't know, I've done a lot since then. I don't know that I don't know. I just I just feel like I want to do it with the memory of it because I don't remember making the decision. I remember doing it, and I, you know, I remember the experience. I remember going, I'm actually actually I remember going down the water, it was cold, and and in the water, everything went warm. And when I came up, everything was warm. Wow. And I share that with my mom years later, and my mom told me that happened to me too. And I always was like, Well, that's pretty awesome, mom. But uh, so I remember that, but I didn't remember actually making the decision. I I'm sure I did because my parents wouldn't have let me get baptized if I didn't convey to them that I knew what I was doing, but I just didn't remember making that decision. And so I I share that with my with my pastor, and he said, You know what, brother? If you if if you are having a question about your baptism and it's impacting your faith, and you want to get rebaptized, uh making that decision in faith, then yeah, I'll baptize you. Don't let nothing impact your faith. So if you feel like it is, so I said, Yeah, so um, and this was actually when I was still in B in BMAX, but they didn't allow baptisms in BMAX. Uh so now I get to this open unit, we have access to a baptismal. They used to roll it and undo it, and yeah. So, anyway, it was it worked, you could do a baptism in it. And the day I got baptized, 13 other guys got baptized, 14 of us got baptized in Jesus' name. And and I I came out of the water, I was expecting the Holy Ghost. Yeah, but it didn't happen, and I'm like, man, what and so, like I said, I would always go through those thoughts and then be like, it's not gonna do it. He left you, and so I share that for particular reasons. So I um and so anyway, I'm I'm still praying, and I'm like, all right, God, well, I know you're gonna do it. It didn't happen then, but uh, I'm I'm believing for you to do it. And in my mind, I was like, you know what? I just need like a Holy Ghost filled man and God lay his hand on me, or I'm gonna have to get in an altar call somewhere and just fill me with the Holy Ghost. Like it got, it's gonna have to happen like that. Something's gonna have to happen. And so uh I remember Brother Steve Lear, he used to visit us pretty frequently, and uh that day he came in for Bible study, and he I had met a guy that day. I remember this, his name was Robert Gonzalez, and I met him and I invited him to Bible study, our Bible study that we have in there. So we had our Bible study, and as we're closing, brother Steve comes in, they're like, Hey, we got Bible study, and there's this little laundry room, tiny, probably about a little bit bigger than a bathroom, than a large bathroom. They used to do uh laundry in there, but now it's empty, so you can go in there with the chaplain and do Bible studies. And so, brothers, they can say Bible study, brother Steve takes us, takes them in there, and I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna have Robert come. So I start looking for him, I find him. So by the time we get in there, they were kind of already in motion uh in the Bible study, or so I thought when we walked in. And as we walked in, he's he's speaking, I didn't know at the time, like I didn't catch that it was scripture, but he's speaking scripture, and it like I didn't understand it at first, it just hit me. And I remember I like got like my eyes got watery, and I was like, um, and and back at that point, like eyes watery for me was a big deal, like crying. Not now, I'm a crybaby with God, but back then, like getting watery eye, like that's a big deal. So I was like, wow, like what was that, you know? And uh, and so and so he and then and then someone asked him a question, he goes a different direction and starts, and I'll just kind of like I was just kind of like uh struck by that. Like, man, what like what was that? That was what was he speaking? Because that that touched me. And so he gets done at the Bible study, and he's like, Oh, he's like, Today I was praying, and when I was praying, I clearly heard the name Robert. Um, he goes, but now you brought your friend, Robert. He's I'll be honest, I thought it was you. I knew I was coming for Bible study, so when I heard your name, I'm like, Oh, it's you, he says, but now you brought your friend, Robert. So I'm totally honest. I don't know which Robert, but God's gonna do something for Robert tonight. He says, You guys want to come over here and get prayed for? And I told Robert, You want to go get prayed for? He's like, All right. So we we walk over there and uh he goes, All right, he's all if any of you that want to pray, feel free to pray with me. He says, I'm gonna lay my hands on you guys, we're gonna pray. So my mind, like, oh, this is the Holy Ghost filled man of God. Like, all right. Um, so I lift my hands, I close my eyes, and he starts praying for us. I know he has his hand on Robert's head too. And I feel you know, Robert Nixon with his hands in the air, and we we're praying, we're praying, we're praying, and God, I I can feel God moving, like I felt God move already though several times. Like God's moving in there, like it you could feel him moving. I could hear the men around me, not all of them, but a majority of them praying too. And he's just praying, he's just praying. And uh, and then after a while of praying, he takes his hand off my head. I both our heads, he just takes his hand off, and I remember, like, you know, when the presence of God moves, but then it begins to lift. Yeah, and as he took his hand off my head, and I began to feel God's presence lift, and I remember thinking, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This was supposed to be the Holy Ghost filled man of God. I was supposed to get the Holy Ghost right like, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I remember with my lips, I was going, hallelujah, hallelujah. But inside I told God, no, don't go, don't go. I want you to fill me with the Holy Ghost. Whatever I gotta do, I'll surrender everything. Whatever I gotta surrender, God, I'll surrender everything, but I'm not gonna stop praying till you fill me with the Holy Ghost. And right as I had those that heart back towards God, I felt the power of God come over in me, over me, through me. It rushed out of me. I felt I heard myself, I heard myself talking in tongues, and my mind went, whoa! Like in my head, I was like, whoa, like I can hear it. I can hear my lips, like my tongue talking in tongues. And I was just like, whoa. I I didn't leave that room, like I didn't get transported out or anything. The only way I can describe it is everything went quiet. Like I know those men didn't stop praying, uh, anything like that, but it just like my like hands went over my ears, like and it went quiet. I remember even thinking, like, whoa, I and as soon as that quiet came, I heard Jesus say, I never left you. Wow, and that was the day I fell in love with him. Yeah, because I thought to myself, never left me. You needed to hear that where I've been, what I've done, how I've lived, why I'm even here. Yeah, and it killed that. Lie of that enemy that for all those years was lying to me. He left you. He left you. He'll never do it again. He left you. And I had already been trying to form a relationship with Jesus for a while, even Bible studying, witnessing, doing these things that I felt was like this is what we're supposed to do. This is what the Bible says to do. I'm going to do those things that I know God was pleased with. I'm going to give him my best. But that's the day I really fell in love with Jesus. Like I just was like, I love you. Like, man, I love you. And uh and as soon as I heard him say that, it was like the hands went off. And I could hear everyone praying again. And I didn't talk in tongues for for very long. It was maybe a minute or two, maybe two minutes tops, three minutes tops. It wasn't anything extended. I just remember talking in tongues after that, more like, thank you, Jesus. But I remember in my heart, like, thank you, Jesus, thank you, Jesus. And just but talking in tongues, and then I just put my hands down, and some of the guys in there were like, Whoa, like I've never seen that before. And I was like, wow, that's that's like in my mind, I was like, that's amazing. And so it wasn't, it wasn't just it was just for like a few minutes, tops, like I said. But Bible study ended. We were supposed to go lock down. I remember walking up to my cell. I had a solo cell at the time, and I walked up and

Release, Work, Marriage, And Ministry

SPEAKER_01 1:41:10

I closed the door, turned off my light, and I got down on my face, and I just I was in there just talking in tongues for I don't know how long. I just prayed and just just I don't know. I've used the word basking in it, and just like, man, thank you, God. This is this is what I've been waiting for. This is what I've been wanting. Um, brother Steve, before I walked out of the room, I remember him, he spoke to me, he looked at me, and he he didn't really have a lot of details about me. Um, it's very interesting actually how we connected. He came in randomly and I went to his Bible study just because I didn't see no one else go in there. So I was like, I'm gonna go in here with this guy and see what he's talking about. And I took a friend with me, and he ended up knowing my dad had been involved with prison ministry with him like years before, but I didn't know that at the time. I didn't know who he was. As I heard him start preaching, I was like, Oh, this brother's apostolic. Like, all right, like so I sat there and then we ended up talking and finding out, like, oh, you know, he later on, as I put a kitem for him, he seen my last name and he asked me, Do you know Bobby Rodella? And I was like, That's my dad. And he was like, Man, I used to go to prison ministry with him. So it was just a little connection there. Um, but he would always come. And so that day, like I said, but he didn't know a lot of the details of what I was facing, he didn't have any of that information. He wasn't in contact no more with my dad or my parents at that time. Um, and so I remember he looked at me that day and he was like, You've been you've been serving the Lord for years, and you've been giving Bible studies and you've been doing everything that you thought you could do with as much as you could do it with. And he said, But today it changes, and today you're gonna watch God move everything forward, it's gonna happen quickly because of what God's done for you today. And I was like, Whoa! And he said, I want you to take these scriptures, and he wrote scriptures down on paper. And when I went back to myself after I got done praying, I went and read those scriptures, and it was the same scriptures he was speaking when I walked into that room. And I still have those scriptures today, but so that was when I finally got renewed with the Holy Ghost. Um, like I said, we've seen a lot happen um in that jail until the time I left. I could I could be here all night with just different things just there, and then I I ended up going to different prisons over time and everywhere we go. Everywhere I go, I just connect with someone, start doing Bible studies, and try to win someone to Jesus. And um what was it like?

SPEAKER_04 1:43:20

Go ahead. No, go ahead. I don't want to interrupt if if you're going for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:25

No, so so uh there was a point um in the whole situation where I thought I would be coming home. So I so long long story short on this. So of course I was looking at the 420 years. I'm looking at the 3L's life without all the charters, everything. We're never supposed to go home. We're not our my discoveries, like this. I'm not exaggerating, it's like this thick. It's like a couple volumes, two or three volumes of book, like like book volumes. And most people's just like this. Like, yeah, that's that's probably the biggest it gets.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:54

Um, so they there was nothing they didn't have, like I said, there was nothing they didn't have that doesn't send me away and my friend away for life, and um and and some for anyone that doesn't know what discovery is, it's it's a legal term that attorneys use to collect evidence. And so uh both attorneys have to exchange information in order to build the case. The other attorney needs to know what the case is getting built on. So that's basically all of the all of the evidence that they had against you, which was that volume. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know how many people might be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:32

So we we and actually that's good because sometimes like my wife knows like now from being married all these years, but she sometimes I'll say something and she'll explain it. And I'm like, oh yeah, I didn't think about that. Um some people don't know the the lingo. So um, yeah, so anyway, they had this, they had everything, they didn't have there was it, they had everything they needed, and uh, and then we my our lawyers get like I said, they get the initial um grand jury indictment tossed out. We thought I was like, oh, go home time. That wasn't the case. That was very early on. I'll say this, I needed all the time I spent incarcerated, I needed all that time.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:06

Um at the at this time though, when you got when you got filled with the Holy Ghost again, um and you completely surrendered. Um, did you get to the place where you thought, okay, God, if I have to do life, then I'm gonna just do life and this is gonna be it. Did you get to that place where you could even surrender that?

SPEAKER_01 1:45:26

Yeah, so actually, in in uh I got to that place in Max. I remember sitting on my bed one day and I just told God, you know what, Lord, I don't know what you're gonna allow. I I use I remember the exact words I use. I said, if if I get broke off, if you let me get broke off, then I can get broke off. But I'm I'll still serve you. You've been good to me. I could be dead, I could be in a grave, I could be in hell. You've been good to me. I'll still serve you. Even if you let me get broke off, I'll still serve you. What is broke off? That's why I told broke off that I got the whole that I'm gonna get all the time. Oh, okay. Okay, yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah. The term they use is we get broke off all the time. So if I get broke off, Lord, and that's what happens, that's what happens. Um that was actually one of the times when I was praying, I felt the presence of God, and I and I and I was like, you know, get teary-eyed, and I felt that stammering on my lip, you know. It wasn't that I got anywhere into the Holy Ghost, but but yeah, I had already came to that. Um and then at this time, um, it was within that same period of time, actually, out of uh our lawyers say, Hey, we're gonna get we're gonna get everything thrown out. And we're like, really? Yeah, this is airtight. We're gonna um uh it's basically a document you uh uh give to the courts and say, hey, you know, we're for these reasons we believe you should dismiss this case. And so um we're doing all that. And I remember uh being with that particular friend by then that particular friend of mine or me and him uh were in everyday contact at that time, being being incarcerated together. And uh I remember I used to always try to witness to him, he was atheist. I could tell you some stories of it. Yeah, but anyway, he was always atheist, and I would always try to witness to him telling about God. And I remember one day we're in the cell because we were cellies. I remember one day we're in the cell together, and he's like, bro, like if I didn't know you, like if I didn't know you, like you're my friend from the streets, I know you. Like, if I didn't know you, I think you're crazy. Who are you talking to in here? You get up on that bed and you're up there, who are you talking to? No one's in here with us, bro. Like, you I would think you're crazy, Rob. And uh, and I used to just try to be a witness to him. And I remember one day we're in a kind of like a little back and forth, and um, and he told me, All right, well, you trust your God, and I'm gonna trust my lawyer. Um, at this point, what it happened was uh my mom had gone to one of our hearings and seen all the full everything they had against us. And uh she was always positive. We had visits, she would come, she was always full of faith. She was always positive, always prayerful. Anytime we had visits, it was always uh uh good to come from. Like, you know, I walked away with increase my faith or help. She came after that hearing. I remember walking in, and and I'm in Mac, so they got you, they got you chest shackled, hand shackled, leg shackled. You shuffle wherever you go. You when you're on the phone, you're like this the whole time. You're you're it's it's very confined in a little room with a glass. I first time I gave my mom a hug was like nine years later after being incarcerated. Um, but anyway, so I'm I see her. She she and she just looks sad, and and I could tell she was crying, she was puffy-eyed. Uh, she had been in court that day and just heard

Leaving The Gang And Serving The Church

SPEAKER_01 1:48:25

everything, and she was like, Oh man, like it was like a uh a dawning realization to her, like my son's really in trouble. Um, and so we're talking about some of the stuff, and I she's trying not to cry, but of course she's crying, and and I'm feeling like, man, I'm I'm a dirt bag, man. Like my mom's right here, just man, like I'm making her go through all this stuff, and we're having that like a really, a really downer kind of visit. And so they call me, hey, you know, you got 30 minutes tops usually in those cases, sometimes they leave you longer, but 30 minutes tops, your time was up, let's go, time to go back. And I, you know, all right, mom, love you, and uh, see you later. So I go back, and the next day they call me and they're like, Hey, you got another visit, which I didn't usually get visits back to back like that, like one day, one the next. So I was curious who would even be. And uh I go down there and I walk in, it's my mom, and she's beaming, she's smiling, she's like, hi, she's all happy, and she's on the phone. I'm kind of thinking, like, all right, well, she's better than yesterday. And uh, I remember I pick up the phone and uh hey mom, how you doing? You all right? And she looks at me and she says, Me oh, you're coming home. And uh wow, I said, Okay, you know, I hope so. Um, I was trying, okay. Like, okay, sure, we'll stay positive. Like, okay, like, yeah. And um, and she said, No, and she said, No, you're coming home. God spoke to me. And I said, Okay, and now she has my interest because I know God speaks to my mom. I know that. Like, and I'm like, oh, okay, well, what happened? She saw yesterday when I was here, like going to court here and everything. I was so discouraged. I was like, man, like it's really bad. And she said, and I was just so sad, and I just knew, like, man, it's terrible. Like, I don't I don't know if he's ever coming home, God. She says, and I left. So when I walked out of here, so there was a storm going on. It was windy, it was cloudy, no rain, just a lot of wind, a lot of clouds. She was in the wind was loud, and you, you know, you just know it's gonna rain, it's gonna storm. She says, as I as I just experienced all that walking out, she says, I heard all these like a loud singing of birds, like just a lot of them and loud. So I looked up. So when I looked up, they looked like leaves in the tree. There were so many of them. They were all across the telephone lines and the power lines. They were just and they were all singing and it was loud. She said, I'm willing. I looked up and I seen this, God spoke to me and said, Just as I have set these, just as these birds are free, I will set your son free. And uh, and she says, You're coming home, God's bringing you out of here. Praise God. Yeah, I my faith wasn't quite there yet, but but hers was, and I was like, Okay. Um, so there would be times where I would pray like that, like, all right, God, I ain't heard from you, you ain't told me that, but you told my mom, I don't know how you're gonna do it, but you're gonna do it. I I don't know, we'll see what happens. Um, and so I shared that with my friend Bingo, and he you know he's always like, ah, you know, so I remember he told me that day, and he was like, Well, you trust your God, and and I'll trust my lawyer, and we'll see how that works out. And so that that writ conversation came up where we were gonna be able to get rid of the rid of the case and go home, you know, like at it was like at a nine-year period at that point. And uh I asked my lawyer, like, how comfortable he's oh we're it's good. We're gonna, it's it's it's a slam dunk out of the park. All right, and then I and then my his name's Mingo. Mingo's uh lawyers telling him the same thing, and um, and so we're like, okay, like it's gonna happen, man. I think I think we're good to go. And then um, right before they come and they're like the the DA actually wants to offer you a deal that you go do this time instead. It's uh it's uh or just that you do this time. It was uh 12 years, eight months. And so um, you'll take this for this and this for this, and this is where you're at, and that's what they're offering you. And I remember my lawyer telling me, I don't know why they're offering. I was like, that's God, that's God. Yeah we don't have no home. My lawyer's like, well, the writ's coming up, that's probably why. And I was like, No, that's God, that's God. And so we go to court because our lawyers say, Well, let us still file this writ, because if we file the writ, you're going home today. Dismissed, you're got your guys are gone. So we're like, all right, yeah, let's do it. So we go to court, and uh, I'm all excited because I'm like, man, like my lawyer's really confident, the other lawyer's really confident, we're going home. Like, I think it's gonna happen. And my lawyer comes in, he's like, Hey man, we had a little hiccup, and this is what's happening right now. He says, So the look, so the DA is telling us that we can either file our writ or you can take the offer, but they're not gonna let you do both. If you file the writ then and lose, then they're gonna take you to trial. And if you file the writ and win, you're going home. What do you want to do? And I said, Well, what do you think? Like, he's all that's up to you. Head on all that. Well, you said it was slam dunk. Like, he's like, That it's your decision, whatever you want to do. And I was in this, like, I don't want to make the choice, God. Like, what am I supposed to do? Do I take the time? Do we file the writ? I want to go home, but what's what's what am I supposed to do? And so um I told him, Hey, did you see my mom out there? He was like, Yeah. I said, Can you go and tell her that if she could pray for me right now? Tell her what you told me, tell her, pray for me. I didn't make a decision. He's like, Yeah, all right. And so he goes and he leaves, and I just go over, sit down, and I just start praying. I'm like, and there's men all this, we're in this little holding area, there's all kinds of men, but I just start praying. I'm like, God, I need you to give me some direction right now. I don't know what to do. I don't want to make the wrong decision. I need to make the right decision. If I'm supposed to take that deal, then I will. If you're gonna let us win in the writ, I just don't know what to do. Just tell me. Right after that, I get down. I'm just like, in Jesus' name, amen. I look up and my lawyer pops back in. He's like, Hey Rudella. So he's like, Hey, don't worry about it. They say we can file the writ and they'll keep your deal on the table for you. I remember this guy, Carlos, he was across the room where the doorway is at, looks at me and goes, No way! I heard your lawyer what he was telling you. I seen you go over there and pray. That's crazy. And uh anyway, we we we go in. I really thought I was going home that day. After he told me that, I'm like, oh, God answered that, I'm going home. And uh they deny the they deny the writ. So I I took the deal, which means I still had to do a few more years locked up, a couple more years locked up, two and some change. And uh, but I was, I'll be honest, I've shared this before. I was heartbroken because I was like, man, like I thought I was going home today, God. And I remember going back to my cell and I'm like on the ground, I'm just praying. I'm like, man, God, you know I'm serving you for real. This is not fake. Like this, I'm really doing this. Like, I'm serving you. I love you. I want to serve you. When you let me go, I'm ready. I'm ready to go serve you. Why would you not do it today? You could have done it. Um, and I'm kind of going like that back and forth in him. I start telling him, I want to go home. I I want to go be with my family, I want to become a husband, I want to be a dad, I want to be a better person in society, I want to have a job, I want to go live a life that's right. And I'm as I'm just telling God all this, and in the middle of all that, he just stops me and he says, I've not allowed you to go home or open the door because I want, because you're gonna go be a father, a husband, a good person in society, have a good job. All those things will be included. That will be part of, but I've opened the door and made the way so that you can be a witness of the goodness

Healing Old Wounds And Helping Youth

SPEAKER_01 1:55:12

and mercies of God. That is why I'm letting you go home. So you can testify me and let the world know how good, how merciful, and how loving I am. That is why I'm opening the door for you. And as soon as he spoke that to me, it lifted all those feelings and thoughts. And I was like, all right, we're gonna go do these next years, Lord. And looking back over the years, I've told a lot of people this. Um, I needed those last couple of years down, two and a half years or whatever it was, tunes of change, because there was things God still worked out in me during that time, and there was things out here that He worked out that were situated correctly when I got released. I would love to say if I got out in that year, everything would have been great and I would have lived for God, and I would have I would love to say that. I would probably have said that, but I couldn't tell you that for certain. But I know when the door finally opened and I was able to come home, everything was in good order and I was where I needed to be spiritually to face some things that I began to face once I got out here. Um yeah, and so um, like I said, there was there's a lot that I could share in regards to testimonies and different things and being incarcerated and so forth, but um yeah, just God's been good. God's been really good.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:22

Man, Bobby, there were so many things I wanted to ask. Um, okay, so what was I I would ask the game question. First, I want to I want you to address now that you're an assistant pastor, and we at church see people come down to the altar seeking the Holy Ghost, but you can also see what their mind is doing at the same time, much like what you described, right? You were having the experience, you're speaking in tongues, but your mind is also very much aware of what's happening around you. And so there's a wrestle taking place. Um, how how do you what do you tell people nowadays? Like, what do you think the best way to deal with that is for people that are seeking the Holy Ghost, but still really struggling with what they're what they what they are, what's happening around them, like like it was happening for you. How do you what do you do now as a pastor for those people? How do you counsel them through that? Because it's difficult.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:30

It is. Um for me personally, I don't know if it's just because of uh my character or or the way my mind works. Um but oftentimes I so I've seen the most effect happen when I've asked the Lord as I'm praying for them, like, like Lord, like what do I need to speak? Do I need to say something? Do I need to do I need to interject here? I've also because I'm my I'm loud as a person in general, like I can be loud, my voice is loud, I can be loud. I've I've had to tell myself a few times, like, hey, quiet down a little bit. Let like be it be attentive to what's going on. You don't want to distract them either, even like as you're praying for them. And so for me, it's it's about really being sensitive to the Lord when praying with someone. Um, and maybe even sometimes God, and He has there'll be times where God would give you an understanding even as you're approaching them, so you already are able or equipped to come up and say, Hey, like um this may be going on or this may be going on, but let's, you know, whatever that may be, whatever the direction is. Um and there's other times where I've been praying with people for yeah, for a duration, and then and had to ask God, like in the middle of like, God, like do I do I say something? Do I do I speak something? Um and sometimes a word too, like I I know us and uh I know us Pentecostals, uh there's there's there's certain uh when you create an atmosphere for God, God moves in that atmosphere. I know sometimes we gotta be careful that we're not pushing anything outside of that as well, because that could happen as well at times. I've seen I've seen it happen. Um and and just be sensitive to um being prayed for. Even sometimes I'll know stuff already, like when I'm when I'm um about to approach someone, I've I've already known something, something was spoken or told to me. But I also try to be careful to to not present it like like oh, like, oh, I'm I'm telling you this because I'm because of that because uh God's giving me this understanding. Like I'm sharing it away like I know this is where you're at, like I know this is what's happening. Um yeah, to me, the altar work and praying with people is a is a very important, sensitive, needful thing. Um, and so I I I take it pretty uh I take it pretty seriously. I I know God wants to do something there, and and God can really, and if you let him, God really can do something there.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:46

Well, and I I agree with you. I think we definitely have to be led of the spirit, but I I we've had a guy come through our church a couple times that his ministry was all about like you could tell that. Is just the call of his ministry to get people filled with the Holy Ghost, baptized in Jesus' name. That is his number one message. And so as preparing people for what they're going to experience when they come down to the altar, I think it would just be helpful if they had an understanding. Your mind is going to be fighting with you. And keep your eyes on the Lord. And you know, because I I literally had someone tell me once, they felt their lips start to stammer. And they they put their thumb in their mouth to stop it because they were afraid because their mind was doing one thing, but their spirit was doing another. And and so there's a level of ignorance, I think, for the person who is not aware of apostolic Pentecostal speaking in tongues. And so there is a little conflict taking place. So I I just thought maybe from a preparedness or educational standpoint, or how you prepare people to receive the Holy Ghost, you know? Yeah. Um, because they don't know how to receive it, and there is that wrestle taking place.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:19

Yeah. I think I think a part of it too is even something uh me and my wife do, I know others at our church do, is even coming to the person and and um having a conversation sometimes prior, like asking them. Um and sometimes even I I found too, sometimes even in asking them, like, what do you what do you need? Is there something specific? You know, a lot of times the answer is, well, like for me, you're my family, um, and and asking them specifically, like, do you want something in particular to pray for? And we begin to pray, and we begin to pray for their specific need, then you see them maybe lack for words, like opening up to God. Like they begin to feel comfortable maybe opening up to God. I I know uh when we've when we've given people rides to church uh for the and I know they're coming here for the first time, I'm I'm talking to them about church a little bit and exposing them a little bit in conversation to what's gonna happen when you when you come in here. And I tell them, like, I don't know what churches you've been to. Maybe you've never been to church before, but when you come in here regardless, like it you may think it's a little different. And uh, and I said, and it is, it is because because what

Calls To Prodigals And Praying Parents

SPEAKER_01 2:02:20

you're gonna experience is is God. That's what you're gonna experience. And just maybe the word is prep them. There's various kinds where you've had to to prep them, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:29

Yeah, because I mean the wrestle that you described when you were starting to get the Holy Ghost, I think is so real for so many people, you know, and they don't know how to understand the battle that takes place in the mind. Um, what was it like for you to walk out of the gangs? How was it for you to leave that in terms I know you were ready, but what did you how did the gangs uh receive that information? Were they receptive? Was it difficult? Was it dangerous for you?

SPEAKER_01 2:03:04

So so normally I would I would say that uh the situation could be perilous. I thought that at first too, like, oh man, this is this can go south. Um at the same time, I had confidence, like, all right, God, but you told me.

SPEAKER_04 2:03:21

So and so um did you have to say this literally sorry, did you did you have to like literally renounce it in some way to them, or you just exited?

SPEAKER_01 2:03:34

So basically what happened is I I there's there's uh something called the OA, the the the person that is in charge of everything. Um at that time, I just I wrote I wrote him a letter initially, uh, it's called a kite. I wrote him a kite and said, Hey, just want to let you know that I'm I'm praying and I'm reading the Bible, and I just explained to him where I'm at. And then I told him, So if if you don't hear from me as much or whatever, that's why that's that's where I'm at right now. Then I went down, I I talked to him. Uh, we're in both Max at the time, and for that shower, sometimes you can get away from the shower in order to go to a door and talk real quick. So I just kind of like touch base, like this is what's happening. Um, I can say for me personally, the only thing that kept me from anything happening further was the hand of God because I still was housed with them. I'll say them not at the time us, I would I was still housed with them uh for years, for years. And um, it got to the point where even they would come to me and ask me to pray for them, or they would come to me and tell me, Hey, my grandma's going to this man, can you pray for them? I would share the word with them. Some of them were real receptive, some of them not so much. Um, there was even a time where I recognized there began to be a change of attitude towards me after uh quite a few years had went had gone on. Um, and so I began to notice like I just caught like there was a little change towards me. And so I remember approaching the guy at that time who was in charge again and just saying, hey man, like ain't nothing changed about me. I've I've been like this for this duration of time. That particular individual had been in jail, out of jail, in jail, out of jail. And uh he and I remember him telling me, Well, um, the he says, We all believe in God, Rob. The difference between me and you is that you put God before who you are, and I put who I am before God. Um, but that's two masks. Yeah, and he says, That's what, yeah. And he says, Um, but being that we know you're real and you're really doing it, you're not hiding behind it, this is where you're at currently. I don't know how I don't know if it speaks for your future, but this is where you're at right now. And so for years I was able to um not be involved and still be connected um in the sense of you know being in the same quarters, areas, things like that. Uh, but then eventually I just pulled away. I was like, all right, I gotta just I gotta step away from all this. Um so that's eventually what ended up happening.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:44

And so when you got out, what was that like? So you did your time, you got out. Did you what was God speaking to you about his call on your life? What did you think you were gonna do when you got out of prison? What did you do when you got out of prison?

SPEAKER_01 2:06:02

So um I got so I was so I got out in 2012. I've I've been in uh release since 2012. Um 14 years. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, close. Um so I got out and uh my initial thought was I was gonna try to get my life in order for it so I like I was looking for a job. I I I got amazing testimony about how I got my job. I still work for the company today, had a lot of blessings there and so forth. Uh, but God opened a door for me. It was hard initially to get to get um employed, and God opened a door for me. Uh, I started going back to school. Um, and I remember um I was looking for a job, couldn't find a job. I'm going back, I'm going back to not back, I never went, I'm going to junior college. Um, and I remember walking across the campus one day, and I'm thinking about I can't get a job, no one's calling me back, and it just bothered me. Um 31 years old at the time. Um, the Lord blessed me with a place to stay. Uh, my mom's, I stayed with my mom. My mom had a room for me at the time. I was able to go move in with her, had a vehicle. Um, but even with those provisions, 31-year-old man trying to reestablish his life, even the blessings sometimes like, man, I can't be 31 years old living with my mom. And like, I need like a job and dude, like all these kind of thoughts are going through your mind. And so I remember walking across the campus that day. I remember clear, I was walking across the campus, and I'm just thinking about everything, and I'm like, I need a job, I need a job. And all of a sudden I hear, why don't you just go hit up one of your homeboys, get a little drop, and make some money real quick? Just that's all. That's all you gotta do. And it came to that thought came to me, and as soon as I heard it, I was like, I rebuke you, devil. I ain't do no, I rebuke you. And uh, I just kept walking. I didn't give it a second thought, I didn't let it come back. That was it. But later on, my thoughts were, man, no wonder, no wonder I've seen so many, because I'll be honest, I see these guys rotate. I'm like, what is wrong with you? Like, you want to come back to this? Like, like, what do you just keep like? And but it then it dawns on me, like I barely get this understanding then, like, man, when those thoughts came against their minds, they don't have no nothing, they don't have nothing to stand against it, to rebuke it, to kick no, it and they just it takes over, and that's what they do.

SPEAKER_04 2:08:06

Yeah, because they don't know it's not them, they don't recognize it as a separate voice.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:12

Yeah, yeah. So so that was like the only time anything of that kind of way nature came to me in my thoughts, but but other than that, um, I just I just took, like I said, God opened the door for my employment. He literally opened the door when I I had already got the interview. There was a sacrificial offering being made. I didn't have I didn't have enough to give. And God told me if you give that it was a certain amount, you will have it because it was a it was uh I'll pledge now, I'll pay later um sacrificial offering for uh Christmas for Christ. Um, and so which is our offering we take in in the United Pentecostal church, Christmas for Christ. And so um I was like, all right, God, I'm gonna make the pledge. $100. That was the that was the pledge, $100. And he said, in the in the day that you owe it, you'll have it, you'll have it to give. And so I'm like, all right. So I pledged $100, and it was just within that same week I got the callback from the company um that I had interviewed for, and they they brought me on, and um, and God's just been very good to me being there over the years. He's given me a lot of favor, uh, just opening doors, promotions, different things. Um, and so I've been I've been there almost the whole time. Well, I got that job at the end of the year. Uh no, I got on 2012 and got that job in January of 2013. So I've been working there since. Um, I got involved with the church. My whole thing first coming to Tabernacle of Praise, uh being connected to Pastor Richardson, who was a pastor at that

Closing Reflections And Contact

SPEAKER_01 2:09:30

time, um, was just do whatever we're gonna do. It's let's outreach, let's Bible study. Um, I let him know. And he had been working with me. So he had been so what happened was my mom, when my mom finally settled and everything, the dust settled, my dad at some point decided to go back to church. So he went back to church in Modesto. Um, it was uh a little awkward and uncomfortable for my mom uh being in church in Modesto. Um, so she talked to uh Pastor Keys and she ended up coming out here to uh Pastor Richardson's church in Manteca at that time. Um and so she was here and she had been here for all those years, even prior to me being incarcerated, she she had been out here in Manteca. And so um at one point when I first started coming to God, there were brothers from the Modesto Church that would come and Bible study with me. And for different, various different reasons for each one, it stopped at some point and I wasn't getting no visits. Um and so my mom at that point said, Well, do you want me to talk to uh Pastor Richardson, see if I'll come visit with you? I was like, sure. And I knew of him as a kid, like I had been around him. Um, the Mantica Church and Modesto Church were you know connected, still are were connected at that time. And uh, and so I knew who he was. So I was like, Yeah, yeah, I'll so he's he was faithful. He like clockwork every week he was coming in Bible studying and he got to the open unit. He was coming in Bible studying. He was how when we started baptizing, he was setting that up. Then he got connected to other brothers, which are brothers that I still go to church with. I I met some of them while I was still incarcerated. They were coming there um with me in Bible study, and and so that's that's how I got connected. So he began to pastor me while I was um while I was incarcerated. Um, so coming out, this was the decision where I was gonna be going. He had been pastoring me over the years, so he was gonna be pastoring me, you know, in continuance. Um, so I just got involved with with uh everything that he he, hey, let's do this. You want to do this? And yeah, let's just do it. And so um, and then in that same time, actually, my wife was already attending here. She she had come to the Lord just the year prior, um, and she was very close to them with the uh pastor and sister Richardson and and doing in really involved in in the work of God. And so now I come and then we are we're around each other a lot uh because we're involved in the same things and we're we're doing the same things. And so eventually um they begin to to have the interest there, of course. And uh to be honest, when I began to realize I was in love with her, um, I was like, oh no, to be honest, because I didn't know if that was I didn't hadn't talked to God about anything about it. Just like I had all of a sudden like, oh, I'm emotionally attached, and I was worried, and I'm like, no, I don't can't make the wrong decision. Um, and I remember being in a morning prayer meeting with God crying because I I can't make a wrong decision, God. Like, I can't do nothing that's gonna detour um and and you know, and what am I supposed to do? And God spoke to me and told me she's the one. And then he said, Don't ruin your blessing. I said, All right, God. Um, so we we got married, we we we got married, um, actually, we got married at the end of 2013. Um so we got married at the end of 2013, and and uh I didn't have to prompt her to be involved in the ministry or anything like that. She was already involved, and we just um my mom used to always say that that we uh we balance each other, we compliment each other. Um she's and and and and she's helped me be a better man in general, just just learning how to uh to love and live for uh love her, live for God, and be a the family man needed. And then yeah, we have we have a three-year-old um daughter. Um that was that's a miracle story, literally. Her name's Miracle. Uh that's a miraculous thing that God did. Um, we couldn't have kids for all those years prior to being married. Um, and just here in the latter years, um, God, yeah, it happened. And um, she even passed away in the womb, and and laying hands on her in Jesus' name, God brought her back. Wow, um yeah, God brought her back. Just it was it was awesome. Uh her heart, her heart came back on. You could hear her. Um, there's just a lot. God's been good. God's been like I God's been good. Um so uh when did you go into ministry full-time?

SPEAKER_04 2:13:23

I well, I know you have a job still, but when did you start becoming youth pastor and assistant pastor?

SPEAKER_01 2:13:31

So uh in 2013, um, the youth pastor that we had had had moved, um, had moved on. And so initially it wasn't like, hey, be youth pastor, uh bit so part of actually part of my thought initially coming out was I want to reach young people so they don't do the same things I did. I don't want to like help hopefully help them not make the mistake, not turn not turn away from God. I used to tell them all the time the the different because I had like three different um groups throughout the time I was youth uh the youth pastor. And so um I would tell them if there's anything that I would try to get you to understand or connect you to is to love God. Like if you love God, that's gonna see you through it all. Questions come, it's gonna see you through it. Hard times come, it's gonna see you're gonna serve God because you love him. That's what's gonna keep you from leaving him, walking away from him. And so I I tried to do my best in that time. Um, but that was like my one of my thoughts, actually. I I didn't think like coming out to be a youth leader or a youth pastor. My thought was just I want to connect to young people and like just try to help them, not to not to do that. Um, or or connect to young people that aren't connected to church and get them in the church so they don't have to go through some of the stuff that I went through. Um so that was a thought. So initially, uh Pastor, Pastor uh had come to me um and said, Hey, um, this has happened, you know, we're we're we're we're changing here, and and and if you'd like to, could you just for now come down and and like lead these these youth events, uh, youth youth gathering? And I'm like, yeah, all right. So that's all it was at first. I would just come down and get make sure everyone came, text, text the young people, just keep connected to them, um, and get make sure they come to service or whatever youth event was going on, however it was working. Um, and then eventually, um eventually it would just led to actually leading them, pastoring them in that sense, and and over time and duration. Um, and then uh um in uh when uh uh Pastor Rodriguez was um voted in, he came in 2020. Uh 2023, he came in 2023. So in 2023, um when he came becoming pastor, everything shifted and and and I became the assistant pastor, and um, we had our uh another youth pastor now. Um we're actually even involved in with our kids' minute children's ministry. My wife's been a Sunday school teacher for years. Um, so we're also the children's pastors. I I say jokingly, well, it's not jokingly, I say uh laughing, giggling that really like she's she's the one that really conducts all that. I just help her. I'm the muscle. Uh, but it's it's it's uh exciting to be a part of the kids' life too. And I'm I'm the utmost believer. Like I know these kids are young, but I got the Holy Ghost when I was four. So any of these kids can get the Holy Ghost, they're all eligible. Um, but yeah, she does a great job doing that. And uh yeah, so that's that's kind of been the course.

SPEAKER_04 2:16:13

So what do you think when you look back at your life? And you know, you you chalked it up as being just angry. Do you understand now that you were hurt and that you like how how do you conceptualize what happened to you then um in order to help kiddos now?

SPEAKER_01 2:16:35

Yeah, and so um uh yes, so it it did initially stem in a in a hurt place, um hurt feelings. Um, and instead of asking God to help me or or or maybe even not expressing, I don't think I even even told anybody that till later on in life. Like I think that I don't remember ever expressing to anybody like I'm feeling rejected, I'm feeling hurt.

SPEAKER_04 2:16:55

Well, you probably didn't know it at the time.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:58

Yeah, yeah. And and and so it wasn't like till later on, like retrospect, like, yeah, like this is where this, this is where it began. Um and so uh yeah, I I I it it all started in that in that place, and then it gradually just I let things other things come in, I let other things become like that. Uh um, like I said, it got got in a real dark and bitter place towards God. Um even today when praying, go keep going, sorry. No, no worries. Um, and so like I said, so even being hurt, I didn't understand that that then it wasn't until later where when God began to heal me. And and I said earlier, like it took a while to even get to the place where like I repented. Like I knew, like, you know, I'm gonna read the Bible and stuff, but it took a little duration till I got to a place of like, I'm sorry. Like, I'm sorry for what I did, I'm sorry for how I've lived. It was more than just, and like I said, you you asked earlier, it was more it finally came like, even even if I get all day and go for the rest of my life, I'm gonna serve you. You've been good to me. Um, but it took a it took me a while to get there to realize like you you've healed me, you've helped me. I remember, I I won't say a name, but I remember getting out and and I when I first started working for the company that I work for, I used to work in our in Costco's because we have all the Costco's in this region. And uh and I would be in there in Modesto, Costco, particularly, and I would turlock too, and I would see people uh from the church come come in there. And I remember the very first time I seen one of one of the one of the people that had that kind of impact on me because of the friendship I had with the son. Um, I remember seeing her and not feeling any bad way towards her. And I remember wanting to walk up and give her a hug. Like I wanted to go, I wanted to go hug her. And uh I knew God had done a healing in my life, but I was like, yeah, that's good stuff, God. Like I know I could have never done that on my own or changed that feeling all by myself. Like that that's amazing. I remember I was able to walk up and just hug her. It's good to see you, look her in her eyes, see her in her face, and I felt love for her. Like, it's so good to see it, really is so good to see you. Um, and of course, she reciprocated, and you know, it's good to see you too. And I'm so glad you're not locked up anymore. We were praying for you. Um, and that happened, that's happened throughout time. Um, even actually, even uh, even coming out, I wanted to get a bishop was trying to get me involved in certain things, and uh, we had our first youth camp that we were gonna have as a uh from our church with uh him being the director, and he wanted to get me involved in that. And I was like, all gone, oh, let's do it. It was at the same youth camp that I used to go to when I was a kid. I was all happy, excited about it. And then um uh a couple people, uh a husband and wife, were uncomfortable with having me go be a part of it. Um I didn't know, I didn't know the reason why at that time. I didn't I didn't need a reason. I just told and I remember Bishop coming to me, he's like, Hey, if you still want to do it, I'll go to bat for you. Um, this is our first year, and I'm I'm trying not to make waves and trying to connect everybody and you know do this in unity. But if if you what do you need me to do? What do you want me to do? I'll go to Batford. And I said, nah, it's fine. I'll understand. I'll be understanding about it. Um, just you know, yeah, it's just it's fine. But I wasn't, I wasn't fine. I was I was upset. I remember I go home and I'm just thinking, yeah, and and it struck that old chord, actually. I remember laying there in my bed and I was thinking, man, see, these church people, man, they they ain't changed. They ain't changed. And I'm just going out with God, like this same old thing, just man. And as I and as I'm thinking all that, my phone rings and I pick it up, and it's a brother from my church, actually, one of the brothers that used to come visit me when I was carcerated, and he says, Hey, how you doing? I'm doing all right. And he says, No, how you really doing? And I knew God had him call me, and uh, and he I didn't even answer him exactly what happened. I said, No, bro, to be honest, I'm I'm I'm my mind's kind of all over the place right now. And then he got just started using him. He began to talk to me and he ministered to me. And that word from God helped me just let that go. All right, I'm just gonna let it go. Um interestingly, I became uh friends, friends uh more so with the husband, of course, but friends with with uh with them down the road. And then I realized, oh, it's because they had a family member who was incarcerated, he just kept going in and out, he'd get out, go to church for a little while, fall back and do his stuff, and and they were dealing with me based on their prior experience in life. I didn't need that explanation to let it go. God spoke to me to let it go, but then there was like this understanding like, okay, I see where you guys are gonna do. Um but yeah, just things like that.

SPEAKER_04 2:21:22

God offense is gonna come in the church. Offense is always gonna come in the church, and for backsliders, you know, like you said, it just triggers all those old wounds, but um grace goes a long way when we can give it, you know, because it was given to us, and I think that's helpful. Um yeah, absolutely. So, Bobby, how what do you think now? Because you clearly heard the voice of the Lord as a kid. You clearly heard the voice of the Lord when he began to talk to you again, right? What sense did you make out of the season of silence? Because you were not backslid yet when he did not answer you. Oh, okay, you said it was because you realized later down the road that that uh he was listening, but he can't um overrun someone's free will.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:25

Right, right. Um the other part of that too is is I it's it's maybe let me see if I haven't verbalized this correctly. So God knows everything, so he knew what my decisions would be, and not wanting me to make those decisions, but it's your will. It's your will, Robert. You're gonna you're gonna make a choice. Some of them are gonna be very, very bad decisions. Um, but I think I can say the same thing. Just just like my dad, he wasn't gonna make me choose him or acknowledge his choosing of me. Um, I would need to come to a place where I would say, I no, I want you. I want to live for you. I I that's what happened that night. I got the Holy Ghost. I I I didn't even know that at that point. Like, but this was the place where I just I just I remember telling God a specific word, I'll surrender everything, whatever you want me to do. I I want you. I I I can't I can't live anymore without you. I need you, I want you. Um, people may hear me sometimes when I pray too. I say, I need God. I absolutely Rob Cordella needs God. I need God. If if if I don't have God, I'm a mess, I'm I'm lost, I'm I'm I'm headed straight to devil's hell. If yeah, that's that's the end of the day. I need God. Um even living for God. I said I said this the other day, someone started laughing. We're talking about like fatherhood and these different things, and I was like, uh, God is the one that helps me be a good husband or be a good father. Even living for God, I gotta learn how to be those things because there's even some uh struggles or whatever you may call it to actually uh achieve or be or do those things. Yeah, it's man, without God, I ain't none of those things. I can't be a good husband, I can't be a good father. I I can't without God, I don't love people without without God. I I hate like I need God. Um but but I think God God has just allowed everything to um He allowed me to make every choice and decision I made. Um He worked it out, yes, exactly, exactly. Every intention that enemy brought, every evil plan he plotted, every scheme that came my way, every time. And and in addition, I've told people this I learned to live for God in a very hard place. Jail and prison is not the easy place to live for God at all. Um yeah, it's not. Uh but and I so I live for God as hard as I could. And what I've had to learn, even still learning to this day, what I've had to learn is I've had to learn to live for, and I can tell you all kinds of blessings and everything God's done, and I can give you like like I said, it could be a duration of time, but I have learned I have to live for God as hard in these good times as I've lived in the as I lived in the hard times. Yeah, I gotta still give it everything, it has to be everything. I can't can't deal. And I've and I'll I'll be transparent. I've watched myself when I've lacked or slacked and and just oh no, no, no, no. You gotta you gotta reshift, you gotta, you gotta pivot, you gotta keep going that same direction that you were that you need to be in, and you know you're supposed to be in. You you have to. Um, and it's giving God all no matter what circumstance or situation you find yourself in. You find yourself in the heart, give it all you got, give him all you got. You find yourself in a good situation, still give it all you got and give him all you got. You you must, you must, he must have your whole heart. Um, and so I've I've I learned that coming out here. You I don't know what my thought was prior, like, oh, I'm in the good things now, so it's gonna be easier, or it's gonna, you know, maybe not require as much effort. I don't I don't know what my thought was, but there was this realization one day, like, no, I I gotta, I gotta keep living for God with everything. I have to. Um, yeah, you know, I I I say I'll share this. I I remember uh being incarcerated, and when you're locked up in that max area, it's very confining, as I said earlier. And I never got suicidal, like I never thought about taking my life, but there was a period of time where um throughout my day, I would just be like, I don't want to be here, I don't want to be behind these uh this these doors, I don't want to see these bricks, I don't want to see walk on this cement floor, I don't want to see these guards. Like I'm so tired of jail. Um, and and and I would have that thought throughout the day. And when I would go to bed in the evening as I laid my head to rest, I would have the thought and I would think, God, I wish you would just take me. So let me go to sleep, yeah, and just let me wake up in heaven. I don't I don't want to deal with all of this.

SPEAKER_04 2:26:54

So many times.

SPEAKER_01 2:26:56

And uh it went on for uh a little bit of time, and I remember one night laying there and thinking the same thoughts again. Like it was never like I'm gonna take my life, it was God take me. Just be with him. Um, and I'll yes, be with him. Like, I'm I'm tired of this. Like, just and I remember laying there that particular night, and I'm laying there and I'm thinking, God, I wish I could just go to sleep. I'm of no use to anybody back here, nothing's nothing's happening positive back here. There's nothing good back here. Like, just take me home, let me go be with you. And then God spoke to me and He said, Is the reason that you want to come and be with me to escape all your sorrows, all your problems, all your hurt? Is that why you want to come be with me? Or do you want to spend eternity to be with me? And I just got quiet, I didn't know how to answer. And then he said, Because this whole world has sorrows, has problems, has hurt, but there's a large world, they don't want to be with me, they just want to escape their hurt. Yeah are you wanting to be with me or are you wanting to escape? Yes, and I remember lifting my hands and telling God, I want to be with you, and and and even as I said it, I knew that my answer, like my heart wasn't like all the way connected to it. And I told God, please help me love you. Because there was a portion of time where to me, like God worked in my life, forgave me, keep me safe. I didn't go to, you know, didn't let me lose my soul. But it was like, mess up, boy, and find out. Like, I've been so good to you, step out of line, get, and I'm gonna I'm gonna squash you like a fly. Like, I don't know. That's the best way I understood that time. Yeah, and it wasn't until later that I began to understand, like, no, you love me. Like, you love me. And even for screening, God, I was like, No, this joy, peace, and love stuff. I don't know, God, it's kind of soft. I I don't know about all this, but as God began to show me how much power his love really has, um, and his goodness and his mercy in my life, I begin to say, All right, Lord, help me to love you. I I I can't even do that on my own. I really need you to change my heart. Um, and he did.

SPEAKER_04 2:28:57

Yeah, yeah. That's so beautiful. Yeah. Because there's, you know, I think it's his love that is what changes us, you know, because it it's real, and you know, you can't give that to somebody, they just have to experience it.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:14

Yeah, amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_04 2:29:16

So where are you today? Your assistant pastor, what what do you like when you look back at your past, does it feel like it was yesterday, or does it feel like it was a lifetime ago that you just don't identify with that person that you used to be anymore?

SPEAKER_01 2:29:34

Um, so I think sometimes it might depend on where the thought comes from or and the happening of it. Um, at some times I'll think about it and be like, it it does feel like yesterday, but the other times I feel like, man, that like I said, I've I've considered like the way I used to think or react, or and I'm like, man, like that was like some whole different person. I've told people over the years, if you would have talked to me, well, at that time I'm telling people like over a decade ago or two decades ago, like it's like two different people. It's wild. Like God just changes you, like He really does. It's so funny because even like sometimes I'll be places in Modesto. That's where I grew up, that's where we're you know, originally from. And um, I ran into old friends and started talking to them, and they didn't even recognize me until I told them who I was, and they're like, Oh man. Um, several times over the years that's happened. Uh where I seen in the Costco again, I seen an old friend and started talking to him. Walked up, and he walked up and I started talking to him. And and I thought he was walking up because he recognized me. I didn't realize he was walking up because it because of the job I was doing. And so I he's asking me questions, which I was like, Oh, that's kind of weird. Like he's but I'm just answering him, and then I realized like, oh, you don't even recognize me, Omar. So we get done talking. I'm like, hey, bro, do you recognize me? He's like, Do I know you? And I'm like, Yeah, I'm Rob Rubella, and oh man, you know, just it's it's it's amazing. Um, I've had the opportunity to win friends of mine, old friends of mine to the Lord, see him filled with the Holy Ghost, baptized in Jesus' name. And um, yeah, it's amazing. It's just amazing to see God do that. So, yeah, sometimes it does seem very like just yesterday, um I watched myself have like you get incarcerated, like you, you your mind like becomes incarcerated, you have these incarcerated tendencies. I remember when I first moved in with my mom, I was walking back and forth in her living room one night, going up to the door, her screen door, and looking out. And my mom was sitting in her chair, and I'm walking back, and I didn't even know I was doing it. And I and I walk up to the door again, and also my mom was like, Hey, Mihal. And I turned around, I was still mom. And she said, You know you can go outside, right? And it was like, eh, like I could just step outside this door right now. Um but God actually helped me a lot. That was one of my prayers actually coming out. God helped me, because I know that's a truth, that's real, like that stuff happens, and I don't wanna um I don't want to come out uh institutionalized. And and so he really and he did it quickly. I was able to adapt and adjust, and I would have little situations like I just told you, but in in the general sense, he really did help me. Um, and so I think at that time, more so it was it was more like more thoughts of like it being yesterday here, you know, over a decade later. Um, yeah, there's certain days or certain, maybe maybe not days, but a certain thought or time, and I'd be like, man, that was that was just even earlier before I came, me and my wife were praying, and I was just like, Thank you, God. I I shouldn't even be here. I I shouldn't be able to go do this right now. I I shouldn't be able to share this. You've been good. And uh and then other times it's like that was so it feels so long ago. Um people have asked me, how did you how did you make it out of there? God, through and through. Yeah, that the door was ever even opened? God, there's no other, there's no other explanation. Um other nothing.

SPEAKER_04 2:32:44

He's a miracle worker. I mean, he is it's it's a really truly bona firacle.

SPEAKER_01 2:32:52

Amen. Amen. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:32:54

Do you have you met very many backsliders along the way that's come home? Do you guys have very many in your church?

SPEAKER_01 2:33:01

Yeah, yeah, actually, so we we do have um, we do have a number. Um and I have been able over the years to work with particular ones. Um recently, um a family, they're they're like family to me. I grew up, grew up with uh Brother Nate Sanovo. He's actually a pastor in the uh Spanish Church of Modesto, but um his his family, uh his family coming back to God, and uh, which is through his wife, his in-laws, and and and his his uh sister-in-law. I knew her growing up, and uh, this is a beautiful thing. Her she comes back to God. She's an adult, she's been married all these years, or never brought her kids, and never lived for God or anything at that point. And uh, and one day Nate called me over and says, Hey, I want you to talk, come talk to her son. Can you talk to her son? I was like, Yeah, I'll come talk to him. And I just share with him my testimony, uh, share with them where I was at with God and because of God. And it was not too long later, Nate texts me and he's like, Hey man, he got the Holy Ghost. He got baptized in Jesus' name. He's he's wanting to live for God. And so it's not so yeah, I just it's it's like this overflow, like not just people they used to know, but even people connected to them and like how God just works. Um, but yes, I I love I love connecting to a backslider. Um, I know for a fact God can bring restoration. Uh, I know for a fact God can renew someone. I I sometimes when I'm praying with someone that I know is coming back to God, in my mind, I'm like, God, if you did it for me, you can absolutely do it for them. If you I joke, I tell my wife, wife, you know, before I came to God, I was a dirt bag. Now I'm a now I'm good soil. If you can make a dirt bag into good soil, God, then then you, if you can do it with this, with this dirt bag and make me good soil, you can do in their lives. They're not far gone from you. You're able to reach, you're able to save. I have that faith uh because of what he's done in my life, plain and simple. Like this this ain't a testimony of day without God.

SPEAKER_04 2:34:57

But you know what, though? Um, I hear you said you refer yourself to as Robert, so I'm just gonna call you that instead of Bobby. It sounds like your dad was Bobby. But Robert, you know, who you were before you went down that road is what God saw. You know, you you had pure faith, you had simple faith, you had a relationship with him, he knew you, and that that is your most purest essence and sense of who you were before the hurts of life began to write on your heart, you know. And I think he just restored you back to who you had always been, you know, and covered all of that other stuff, but used it for good. Um, what do you say? What would you say to the backslider? I I we are seeing, I feel like, in your testimony, is just another one, but I feel like God is really doing a work in the gang community. I said that in my last podcast or a few uh podcasts ago, but I feel like you are another testimony of someone that has come out of the gang lifestyle and world uh to live for God. And I feel like he's really moving in that. Um, maybe it's just because I'm witnessing it. But um, what do you say to the backslider who has not come home yet?

SPEAKER_01 2:36:28

I would say to the backslider that has not yet come home that Jesus loves you. And I would say that I know sometimes maybe being backslidden, what condition you may be in, you may feel like, well, God can't work in my condition or my situation. And I would say in utter faith, God is able to work in any kind of condition of your heart, of your mind, of your life, of your livelihood, no matter where you're at, God is armor is not short. He's able to reach, he's able to deliver, he can deliver you from anything, anything, he can heal you of anything, he can heal you of sickness and disease. Yes, I have I've seen God do that, but he heals broken hearts, he heals broken minds. My mind. If I if you could incite into my mind of what it was before coming to Jesus, it would it would sicken you probably. It would you would worry what what's wrong with but God is able to just to take someone's heart and mind and change it and renew it. And I would say this I would say maybe you feel too like I don't know if no one is praying for me. Maybe you don't have a I testified about my mom. Um, and maybe you may feel like, well, I don't have a mom, I don't have a dad. Um, I would tell you that absolutely you're on someone's heart. Yeah, God, God placed you on someone's heart to bring you before him because he loves you that much and he wants to see restoration in your life, that he had a plan and a purpose for you, and that plan and purpose is still the same, that God will do a work in your life, ultimately make you ready for heaven, but will bring along other blessings and things that will just be included in everything that he's already begun and desires to restore and bring into the fullness of what he originally desired to be. Absolutely. You don't have to consider or worry, does he love you? He absolutely loves you. He, the same Jesus as he was that died on that cross, that same sacrifice, that same love, it remains. It's not change. We serve a God that does not change, his love for you does not change, his mercy for you does not change, his plan for you does not change. His ultimate desire is that one day you spend eternity with him, right? He'll do whatever he has to do to get you to that place to make the choice. I want to spend eternity with you, I want to live for you, I want to serve you, I want to love you, I want to be made ready for your coming. And so there's there's nothing hopeless. I know we before I came to God, I understand it. I understand what it feels like to be without hope. For lack of time, I won't share anything else, but I particular time where God showed me just how empty and hopeless I was, but you have a blessed hope in Jesus. Yeah, God has a and God and I will continue to work in your life if you allow Him to just give Him an opportunity to just give it You're talking to someone that All right, maybe I'll start praying again, maybe I'll read the Bible. I'm in a messed up situation, yes, but who knows what will happen. You would you could never have told me and showed me everything that God would do in my life with my life and added to my life, and me at that time, like, I don't know, man. Yeah, God will do above. We we we quote the scripture, he is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that you ask or think according to the power that worketh in you. If he's filled you with the Holy Ghost and you at some point chose otherwise and walked away, his same spirit still abides and desires to work within your life. And that same spirit will work powerfully in your life and help you to become and live in every way that God desires for you to come become and live for him. Absolutely, no questions.

SPEAKER_04 2:39:42

Yeah, that's good. That was good. I felt that. And what would you say? What would you say to the uh parent of a backslider who's praying, like your mom and your dad?

SPEAKER_01 2:39:55

Absolutely. I would say don't give up, no matter. How dark it looks, no matter how bad it looks, no matter how distance it looks. My mom prayed. So, so you you only heard the portion of what I shared about the time when I was incarcerated. My mom prayed for me for years throughout all my teenagehood. And then, of course, when I was incarcerated into my 20s and she kept praying. She did not stop praying. My mom could tell you there was a day, a particular incident where I was in a particular mindset and rage where she looked at me and didn't even recognize her own son and even asked God, what happened to my son? Didn't stop her from praying. Didn't stop her from seeking the face of God. Didn't stop her from asking, save my boys, not just for me, but for my brother. And just continue to be faithful. And I can tell you this God does hear your prayer. We do not serve a God that's deaf. We do not serve a God that's blind. We serve a God that's able. And if you continue just in your faith and knowing that God can work, it doesn't matter where my son is at, where my daughter is at, what they face, what has happened, how far gone they are, God is able absolutely to restore their life and do a great work in their life without a question.

SPEAKER_04 2:40:59

Amen. Amen. That was good, Brother Rodella. I definitely felt it. You got the anointing to preach, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 2:41:10

Thank you, Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 2:41:12

Well, um, I really, really appreciate you being here and sharing your testimony. And um, you know, I would love to hear you preach one day. I'm sure I'll get a chance to, but uh very grateful for what God has done for you and what I know he's doing in other backsliders' lives, you know. I feel like, you know, he's doing the work. So I'm glad that you made it to the other side and um grateful for all the things that God has done. And thank you so much for being here with me.

SPEAKER_01 2:41:46

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. It was an honor to be able to be here and share my testimony and in Jesus' name. Let it minister and speak to somebody.

SPEAKER_04 2:41:54

Yes, yes. God bless you, and hopefully I'll get to see you at landmark.

SPEAKER_01 2:41:59

All right, hopefully we get to God bless you. God bless you too.

SPEAKER_04 2:42:03

Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_00 2:42:03

We are so glad you joined us. If you have a story of redemption or have worn the label of a backslider, we would love to hear from you. If you'd like to support our ministry, your donation will be tax deductible. Visit our website at theredeemedbackslider.org. We hope you will tune in for our next episode.