Utter Loneliness Until God- Antonio Sarzi #TRB Season 2 Episode 50

Loneliness can be loud, even when you’re surrounded by people. Antonio Sarzi, a concert bassist who recently earned second chair in the Montana Symphony, joins me to tell the truth about what it feels like to be unseen, to chase perfection until it turns into shame, and to carry an addiction that started with childhood exposure to pornography and followed him into adulthood.

Tune in to listen to Antonio's testimony and please help us pray for all prodigals to come home.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider. With your host, Kathy Chester, Christian-based psychotherapist, and Redeemed Backslider. This podcast is dedicated to those who have wandered but are ready to return to the life-changing power of grace and freedom foundation.

SPEAKER_05 0:22

Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider. I'm your host, Kathy Castain. I'm a Christian-based psychotherapist and a redeemed backslider. With me today in studio, all the way from Oklahoma, is Antonio Sarze. Antonio is actually from this area, but he flew in especially to be on this podcast and to share his testimony with us. And so I'm really looking forward to hearing it because I I really have no idea about his background, but um he is a concert bassist. And so uh he recently just um got second chair in the Montana Symphony. Um and so um we don't get to hear those stories very often either of people making a living or pursuing a living, you know, in in the orchestra symphony um world. So I love that you have stayed true to your passion and are not giving up on that.

A Calling Through Music And Church

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Yeah. It's been it's been rough. Yeah, it's a bit rough. I'm sure, I'm sure it is, yeah. Yeah, but it's it's um uh we'll talk about it, but you know, it it it didn't used to be that way, and um I actually tried to run away from it a few times, and um and one thing that got me into it was uh Bishop McPhail. Oh and um I was going to college. Well, I was transferring out of COS because um I was there and I didn't really know what to do. It was about my third semester, and I did a whole uh recital program and I did my piece memorized, and uh it went okay for the time. And um I thought I did terribly at the time, but then all my teachers were like, I tell you, that was the best we ever heard you play. Like all my teachers had been there since I was in middle school.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

So they saw my progression. And um I I told myself I was like, well, maybe maybe I can do this professionally. And um, I didn't want to do it professionally. Um at that point in my life, I was I was like, you know, I want to be in involved in the church no matter what. I want to go to Bible school, Bible college, and uh I don't really care about music, you know, that much. And and um I I would go to Bishop McPhail all the time and we would have our private talks, and I'd be like, you know, I I I don't want to I don't want to go. I want to go, you know, I was like, if I just have a regular job and I'm you know just cleaning the restrooms in the church, that I was gonna be completely fine with that. Wow. And I just wanted to be involved in ministry and um do whatever for the kingdom of God and being a part of the you know the ministry. And Bishop Bishop was like, Yeah, you know, you can do that, but I think you should you I think you should consider you know music. And I got offered a scholarship to go to University of the Pacific and uh they in Stockton or Fresno? Stockton.

SPEAKER_05 3:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

And um I didn't want to go. Uh they they were gonna pay for half of my college, and I was one of the top uh applicants. And um I didn't want to go. And so Pastor McPhail was like, let's pray about it, because that was uh Bishop McPhail's way of doing things. Let's let's pray about it. So we we prayed about it and we came back after a week and and I told him I was like, I think I have to go. And he's like, I think you have to go too. And I was like, I don't want to go though. I was like, I was like, because you know it I wasn't raised Pentecostal at all. Like I I had no uh I had no indication of what the Holy Ghost was or what um what anything was. Uh I I didn't I I've never been in an apostolic church other than uh when I entered the doors entered into the doors of Pentecostal Lighthouse, I think in 20 uh six no when did I graduate? Twenty six fifteen? So it was it was twenty fifteen, it was in uh July of twenty fifteen that I entered into the doors for the first time and then you know God was there. It wasn't the first time that I felt God uh but looking back, you know, he's always been he's always been there. And um so to finish to finish off, uh I reluctantly went uh to school and um that kind of was the beginning of of me kind of falling away and it and it's not really for the reasons like oh I've you know uh like what people preach about all the time, you know, like I fell into drugs and you know rock and roll and all that stuff. It wasn't that at all. Like I I never you know it never happened that way, but you know, um we can get into that later, just because uh if I can give like some backstory, yeah, how I got into church.

SPEAKER_05 5:38

And I bet that was not easy for brother McPhail to let you go, you know. He he had to have really believed um that you were meant to do that for him to really encourage you to do that and go, you know.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Right. And I I appreciated that about uh Bishop McPhail and and um I just you know it's just I I didn't I I didn't want to do it because I I just I just didn't want to leave. I didn't want to leave the church and yeah like you know I wanted to be a part of ministry and that's a beautiful thing.

SPEAKER_05 6:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so tell me tell me your history, tell me the backstory.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Yeah, so uh you know, starting from the beginning, uh was born 96, December 28, 9 uh 1996.

SPEAKER_05 6:26

So you're 30 years old this year.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Am I? 96, right? I think 28 now. I to be honest, I I don't remember. Like every time my birthday comes up, it's like and it's like it's just another day for me. I I celebrate everybody else's birthday but my own, but um I tend to just forget like you'll we'll we'll we'll see is that like I don't remember when I got the Holy Ghost. I don't even remember my bapt my baptism date. I have that I have the document somewhere, I just I can't find it right now.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Uh and um so I I lived uh lived in Huntington Beach, Long Beach. Um dad, my my dad back in 2005 uh found a job as a correctional officer. And uh we moved here to Visalia, and then you know, I just lived my life as a normal kid. Uh uh my dad and my mom instilled in me uh good values, and I um I I really I I've always been the type of person that doesn't like to follow the crowd very much. Like we'll talk about it later, but like there are certain songs in UPC that I just hated hearing because it was like everywhere, you know, it was like 2018 was breakthrough, Eddie James Breakthrough. Every conference had to have break. I was dancing the whole time, but I was just like everybody had to have their own version of Breakthrough. You know, I was like, I was just like, man, you know, like um I was like every time I go to a conference, it's like the last last song before uh the preacher comes up is gonna be breakthrough, you know. And then and then later on in life, I was like, oh, this is a great song. You know, it's always it's always been like that. I always I see the trend, and I don't and I I don't like it because you know people are just like this is the greatest thing ever. And it's just like no you're not a crowd follower, not a crowd follower. And later on in life, I I I'll go, oh, you know what, that you know, it's not a bad, you know, the music in particular, it's like, oh, that wasn't a bad, you know, that wasn't a bad song. It was oh, that's very interesting, especially from what we have now, you know, all the the garbage that's out there now. But um I I was you know, I was like that, and because I got I got picked on as a kid, um uh people always wanted to fight me for some reason. I mean, like I don't I don't know why. Like I wasn't I I wasn't a smart mouth, you know, or anything like that. Um I I would just you know they they just wanted to pick on me and I I a majority of my fights were self-defense.

SPEAKER_05 9:07

Do you think it was because you were an individual?

Early Porn Exposure And Its Grip

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Could have been. Could have been that, you know, I'd like I they they could have, you know, it could have been. Right, exactly. And I I don't know. Like uh, you know, it would always it always end up I would get tackled or somebody would, you know, physically, you know, start it first. I never like there's only been one time that I physically like started a fight, but that was late. That was in my high that was in my high school uh career. That was the last time. And and uh but I've always I've always been taught to tell the truth um because if if you lie and they find out it will be you know it will be more uh the the more you would get in trouble. And so uh, you know, I went through life and um uh middle school was particularly difficult for me. Um I just didn't fit in anything, and then I I was in I was an orchestra and jazz band and I had relationship issues and fell in love with a girl, and um uh that caused a lot of uh havoc on my life all the way up until um freshman because I I you know I I saw you know as a little kid I saw I saw something that we can have some you know something uh that we can be together and stuff like that. And she was just like hate well she she just used me as you know when everything else like bad happened to her and she would have guy issues, she would always come to me. So it was always like mixed messages, and I was the I was the the emotional, you know, the emotional uh shoulder to cry on for lack of a better term. And um I I just became like a a little bit of a loner and then um during that time uh it was before that, but during uh like right before middle school, I was uh what I was 10, 11 at the time, I think. And um I saw my I I saw the the first of uh the the first images uh of naked women and stuff like that, you know, and porn or corn for the the YouTube audience. Um you know I I saw it for the first time and at ten. Yeah. And um people need to understand like it gets it like it's getting younger and younger now. Oh yes, it is and um you know I just saw it. I I it was it was just innocent, I wasn't looking for it, you know, and and um how did you get exposed to it? When I was in sixth grade, um th this was when computers uh they were still using like XP 2003, like uh Microsoft Windows XP. And the kids knew how to get around this this the security on there. So I I saw the first I saw boobs for the first time in sixth grade in a s on a school computer. They typed it up the d a different name for it on Wikipedia and it and it showed it showed it.

SPEAKER_05 12:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

So like you know, before you know AI and all that stuff that we have now, you know, it's like the kids already knew how to like usurp that.

SPEAKER_05 12:43

You all of a sudden you see 15 15 guys on a computer, you know, in the classroom, like and you know, and and you know Wikipedia, who would have ever thought that's where they would go to look for exactly images, exactly, you know. But yeah, you can go there on a school computer.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

And they couldn't, they couldn't they couldn't get around it, you know. And that was that really wasn't a catalyst, it was just like, you know, like boys not knowing anything, you know, like you know, and all that stuff. And but for me, it on the on the home computer, it was um I don't know, I don't know how I got on there, but it was I I do uh at that point I was playing um I I was playing computer games at the time, uh but you know that it wasn't anything like it is now, you know, with the internet and stuff like that. But I don't really remember, but I do remember early an early morning that I was on the computer and it this this site just it was just a uh like a random site that I think I just clicked on and then it just it opened the world to it it opened quote unquote my eyes to all that and um it really accelerated when I was in middle school and high school because one of the the girl that I liked uh looked like the person that I was watching all the time. And then on and then when things got really chaotic, you know, it's it it just became a habit, you know, it just became a habit. And um it's been something it's been something even when I got saved that you know it it it's just when something's been ingrained in you like that for years and you've just been doing it, it it it it becomes just second nature, and then it became it and then it later became uh like an emotional suppressant, you know, for my stuff like that.

SPEAKER_05 14:51

Yep, absolutely.

Depression, Isolation, And Finding Choir

SPEAKER_01 14:52

And it's it it is like one of the I'm not a drug addict, I'm not a I never had a drug in my life. I I have I have tasted wine and hated it, I've tasted beer and hated it, I tasted coffee and hated it and hated it. I've never had a cigarette, I've had a couple cigars in my life, but I'm not a smoker, drinker, drug user, or any of that. But you know, if if anything, you know, at least especially when I was younger, it that that was especially my high school and when I was when I went to UOP, because I I had to I was dealing with so much at the time that became that became like the suppressant for me. And um, and just like my feelings and all this other stuff and the the feeling of loneliness and all that, and that really drove, especially when um I was leaving middle school because uh I finally got over I finally got over the girl that I was really into. And um her friend though was into me, and like I had not felt love, quote unquote love like that in so long, and it was just like you know, I was like, oh my gosh, you know, just uh going over to her parents her house like every day, like she like we would just want, you know, do everything to be together, you know, and um that went on for a month, and then uh she was having a party, and she just wasn't giving me any any attention. I felt like really hurt by that, especially because we had been, you know, like we couldn't keep our hands off of each other, yeah you know, yeah. And then all of a sudden at this party, she's like not doing anything with me, right? And and I left. I left without telling everybody, and I was like crying the whole way back, and then and then I I got super um, I got super just depressed about it. And then I when high school came around, I just I just went full loner. Like I couldn't tell you why. I I just went full loner. I I had trou I had trouble talking to people. Like I wasn't uh like it was just that, and then I would play in the orchestra. I was the first kid at El I was the first bassist at at El Diamante to play in the advance orchestra in like the 10 years that they had been there. So there was like 2011 when I showed up. And my usually the uh the advanced orchestra is reserved for you know like upperclassmen and stuff like that. I was a freshman coming in. Wow. And my teacher, Michael Tackett, who I'm still friends with to this day, and uh adore him and you know, thank him for a lot because he's given me a lot of opportunities. Um he was my orchestra director, then then became my director at COS, and then uh and then when I left, you know, it I I would always do musicals with for him. Like I I can I worked I've been working with him since 2011.

SPEAKER_05 17:55

That's a long time.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:56

And um 15 years.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Yeah, and so I you know, I I didn't dedicate my you know, dedicate myself to music, you know. I was just it was it was a side thing. I didn't I didn't expect it to be um you know my my profession. And I was good, you know, I was good, but I I um sounds like it came naturally for you. It did. It did. It playing bass and playing bass, you know, is not very difficult, you know. It's not very difficult. It's like all the violins get all the tough the the the challenging pieces, and bass tends to get left by the wayside, especially in kind of like uh middle school and high school arrangements. But Tackett, when I first showed up, he he gave me like full-on music, like real music almost. And I was like, oh geez, like I actually have to practice now. And um, and I try and I did and I messed up a couple times, but you know, it it was it was just it just wasn't something like it just it didn't fulfill me. Yeah, and you know, I played, I was I was doing that, and then I was in, you know, I was into the corn and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_05 19:03

It was like every day, and um you can say the word I know I know I had to do a mental jumping jack just then when you said corn.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

It's an internet thing, it's for it's for like the censorship and all that, but um just for different words, you know, like so the algorithm doesn't demonetize you.

SPEAKER_05 19:24

Oh, I'm not monetized, right? So speak freely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

So, you know, it was just it like you know, it was basically a habit every day. And um, and um, and then I you know, I'd play games. I I I was never uh an A plus student, you know. Most orchestra kids were like A plus. I was more like an A B student. I never did homework, I hated homework. I still get A's and B's on the tests, right? And I never had really a C at all. I think the only class I had a C on was I decided to do AP, AP English for the first time. Never did any other AP classes before that, and I really struggled in that class. Yeah. And um, but you know, it was like none of those things like really fulfilled me. If anything, it was it was like gaming, like really like kept me in a good headspace at the time.

SPEAKER_05 20:17

Do you think when you look back at your childhood were you were you a happy kid in your younger years? Did you do you feel like you look back and you were kind of lonely or sad or depressed?

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Like Yeah. I I I was lonely, sad and depressed.

SPEAKER_05 20:34

Did you have siblings?

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Yes, I have a younger sister and an older half-sister. Um, my youngest, my uh younger sister, who um we'll talk about it later, but um uh she came my whole family uh came to God when I when I when I came to church. And um she was also a musician, she was kind of a jack of all trades type player. Uh she played clarinet, saxophone, cello. Um what else did she play? Piano sometimes and sing.

SPEAKER_05 21:05

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

I was I played bass mostly, bass guitar, and then uh I did sing later half of my uh later half of my uh high school uh career. And um and I would say I like I'm way happier now. Like I I may look tired because I am tired just because of everything, but um I am more happier now than I was as a kid. And I'm more way more introvert or may way more extroverted. Yeah and I could like uh my wife my wife uh she has a s a small social battery and I could tell real quickly.

SPEAKER_05 21:46

She's an introvert also.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Sort of, yeah, sort of. And and uh but she she like gets drained after a while and I could see it like when we're when we're together at with friends and stuff like that, and I I just take over and then she she appreciates that and and like I can go on for you know forever and back then I I wasn't like that and uh it I really like it it was that going into high school that just like cemented me and just you know I I just I I literally didn't talk to anybody I don't even I don't even know if I made it like thinking back my memory is like really fuzzy with my middle school and high school thing I remember a lot of the drama and stuff like that that I was a part of of course and the the nights at Six Flags and you know trying to uh you know get closer to people and stuff like that but um you know that time between freshman and sophomore it was just like I was just so closed off I'd sit alone and eat you know everybody's like has friends and stuff like that sit and eat and and um were you doing that to protect your emotions or were you doing that because it it was more comfortable for you it was more comfortable it was more comfortable and I I took were you content in that I I know ultimately it wouldn't be what you wanted but yeah I wouldn't say I wouldn't say I was content like I I I would have loved to you know be the friend have well have many friends and you know be the the popular kids you know that everybody uh crowds around you know and and I just but you're not an extrovert those kids are generally yeah extrovert at that time yeah yeah and we don't know that right when we're going through those things exactly and and and I it's just it's just kind of like you know I I just I just was um I couldn't tell you if it was for protection or not it was just it was just I felt a lot com I felt comfortable in the in the in the dismay of like everything. Yeah like you know I don't really have any friends and um you know I don't have a girlfriend or anything like that right and so was home life happier?

SPEAKER_05 24:06

Like did you get along with your siblings? Was it loud and fun? And so you had solace there.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Yeah absolutely and and my my parents have always been an open book with me. Now my dad my dad because of the nature of the work and he was going from first watch second watch third watch so he he would some um one one one part of my life like he would leave early morning come back uh that was later in life he I that was um what was it that was uh first watch second I can't remember the the days but basically so there'd be days where like I wouldn't see my dad until 10 o'clock at night yeah because he would go to work at two so I'd see him in the morning and then uh I would I wouldn't see him until the next morning because I at at that point in my life I was I was like go to bed at nine o'clock you know didn't didn't deal with that stuff and um you know just being late up at night I wasn't a late night kid it it you did you follow the rules were you a rule follower to it sounds like you were a rule yes at home yes but um you know I I I followed the rules but would unintentionally break them like at school I was not a I was not a I I basically I would I'd be like that's a dumb rule and like what like why why do we have to do that? Why do we have to why do I why is it when I go to Disneyland I have to be in a chaperone in a in a group chaperoned by adults with kids that don't that are fighting left and right on whether they want to get on the Matterhorn or Space Mountain and then I just leave. Yeah there's tons of funny stories or uh of you're your own person. Yeah I I wandered I wandered a lot my mom my mom just finally uh uh when I was younger I would just wander off like we'd be in the grocery store all of a sudden I'd be missing and then I'd just find her and that was always that and and um uh basically I I continued that in my high school middle school and I made so many band teachers you know sweat and shake and even the choir director sweat and shake too they would call my mom like the the the parent would be like we don't know where Sarzi is he disappeared we don't know he just disappeared like he just he just vanished you know and and um and they would they would call my mom saying he he he's gone like we don't know where he went and my mom like he'll find you don't worry and then she's like what and then uh I would go uh I one particular story was like uh I think I was a senior or yeah I was a senior at the time I was with the choir and they were all fighting over this group was fight like I I wasn't particularly friends with anybody in these groups especially in the band uh like I I had no friends in band like no friends in band maybe a couple good acquaintances but um I hated being in groups because it was just like you know I was just the the odd kid yeah that didn't fit in with anybody and uh you know oh that's a tough that's a tough awareness exactly very hard awareness yeah yeah and you know this this this will play into play into play when I came into church but you know it was it was like I didn't like I didn't like being that and so I just I I would just leave you know I would just I would just go walk and because you could feel it yeah yeah yeah you could feel I could feel it and the kids um I'd just go and do my own thing you know I went on Matterhorn Space Mountain um whatever whatever else ride or because we get there like right when it opens yeah so there's no way I'm gonna get on any of those other rides at the end of the day and by the time it hits about 1130 I'm in lunch eating a turkey leg and all of a sudden a parent comes in and be like hey where's your group and I was like what group and then they would grab me and then a couple hours later it'd vanish again.

SPEAKER_05 28:06

Yeah yeah so I was I was very independent very independent yeah and a little ex I would love to do your personality profile because I'm as you're talking I'm ticking away in my brain always that you know trying to figure out your personality type but um but you also seem to me like a a purist um I try to be yeah I feel like I I feel like you're just really kind of a and I you know like a pure heart pure a pure intention pure motive pure um forward thinking in your intention just you know not a lot of deviance just very much staying the course that you right think is right for you and and and very self-aware.

Church Shopping And Feeling Unseen

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Yeah I I try to be I try and you know that has actually gotten me in trouble a couple times in my life. Yeah making my intentions right well making my intentions known yeah and that we'll we'll talk about it a little bit but um like I got in trouble at in college because I I I used you communicated I communicated to a colleague that I just borrowed her instrument to play on it and that that got me in trouble. She didn't even know about it. And if I didn't say anything she wouldn't she wouldn't have overreacted the way that she did but um you know she didn't understand there was anything wrong with that. I like I I was just I I literally um we'll we'll talk about it but it it was just kind of like you know I I just made my you know intentions known that you know I didn't I didn't do it out of malice or anything like that. You know it was it was it's practical it was just practical for what at the situation was but um I met when I was going into my junior year things changed. In high school or college in h uh high school in high school sorry it it changed because um I got into choir they needed somebody who could read music and I was a bass singer um they needed basses and I auditioned and I got in and it was from John Sorber I love him to death um he he really um well my he him his teaching style really helped me kind of get out of my shell a little bit and the group you know being in a choir you know it it's it's it's really everybody's outgoing even the introverted people are very outgoing you know and and you know choir kids are a breed of their own and they they're very accepting of everything whether it's good or bad they're very accepting and you know it was like I was still kind of you know it's still kind of an outcast but you know I I fit in like I fit in and I'm a good for some reason I'm a good singer. Never thought I was um my voice is shot now but I you know at the time it wasn't and um I really started to gravitate and I met my I met my good friend um I met my good friend uh Mark Delmora and I met the Delmore family and I met Daniel Suarez and that this was the first time that I got um introduced to apostolics you know Mark was just coming in uh Daniel of course Daniel Suarez was in there and um uh things started to change a little bit uh you know not really church wise but like you know my personality started to change I started to become more outgoing get out of my shell a little bit you know there were still times where I I felt completely alone like completely alone and I would be in class sometimes and like we're not doing anything I can't I I I remember I remember in particular it was the the age of Ultron trailer came out for the first time I that this is the only way I can gauge it and I was just so alone I watched it and I I thought it was cool you know cool another Avengers movie coming out and I just was like I I felt so alone and it was just like I dealt a lot during that time and you know continuously of just like thoughts of suicide. I was gonna ask about that yeah and and you know I never did anything but I did imagine it and and I was like would it make a difference you know would it would it make a difference would people remember me and that was a big that was a big thing. Never never did I ever you know grab anything you know or try like you know cut myself or anything like that but it was always it was always there and it was always a thought you know and and I started going to church at the time I went to the Nazarene church right behind my house and um I felt so alone in there. I was I was the youth pastor was great and his name was a Daniel Spite I think and um he was so he was very welcoming right but but man was it was it I never had any good experiences at any of the churches that I went to before I came to Pentecostal lighthouse um I used to go to Calvary Chapel long time ago when I was a kid and I felt so alone like my sister and I would go and it was just like I never fit into any of the groups and I would go into the bookstore and I remember like they had skillet and it was like their comatose CD was out I just listened to that forever because it was just like the mute the the way how the music just gravitated I gravitated towards that so like my my change you know my change in music like music for me has like showed kind of like the change in my personality and stuff. I I didn't become goth or anything like that. But it was just like the music really spoke to me right in that way. And um you know there'd be times where I I would sit in I would sit in the lobby and just nobody would notice me. I was just like I I was kind of like um you know are they gonna shut the lights off on me? You know and and you know I never I never um I never fit into any of that and I'd have bad experiences you know just people m messing with me and all that stuff and never went back and um would I'd always like it was I I'm trying to remember if it was like every time I'd go to church I would come home crying. Well no I would not let anybody see me cry but uh not let my family see me cry but like you know I was just the the the sniffles you know the sniffles and like every time the tears would come down my eyes and you know I'd be listening to the music and you know it would just affect me that way and and I'd just be crying and I was just like man you know this is I I would I would just I would just pray sometimes and I I would be like you know God just like just mumble stuff you know or I I don't even know what I would pray sometimes and and um I I I remember in particular when I went to the Nazarene church it was a Wednesday night. Wednesday night was uh youth night I knew some high I knew some of the the I knew some of the people there from school and um I remember I don't know why churches do this but they shut they shut off the lights for the youth. I don't know why they do that and I I've been to a couple apostolic churches where they do that too especially for the youth I don't I don't understand why they turn off the lights but you know maybe to get their attention. Probably and that's probably that's probably why and um I was in the back and they were singing you know they were singing the song and stuff like that and I was reading the lyrics and I was just like I felt I felt God like in that church and nobody could nobody else could but you know I had my hands lifted and I was crying and I was just like you know I I couldn't you know it was just like all the pain you know all the all the pain that I had and you know I I and my my problems and my addiction I was just like I can't I you know it's just like you know I always knew my parents have always taught me to kind of res to uh respect God you know we never went to church or anything like that but we were we believed we believed and we believed in respecting God you know and and and you know what you know what the best way we knew how you know and um and we took it seriously you know it's like we we we took it seriously you know even though we may not be may not have uh lived right and uh well we didn't really but um I just was crying and then like everybody was looking at me funny. You know it was just like why is this kid crying like why this is this Wednesday night you know just the the thing that we come to do and then we go play basketball afterwards.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

Right.

SPEAKER_05 37:41

You know and there's a timer there's a you know a countdown timer for the message up front so everybody sees it you know and I after the service after service and I I just couldn't like I nobody was nobody was dealing with me and you know I just walk home you know it's like nobody noticed that I did just would disappear you know and it was you know it was hard as a kid you know it's like you you go in and and you know I didn't know it at the time but you know I was really I was really searching for God and um I was I was I was searching for God I didn't I didn't know it uh that I was like really searching for him but you know he was there Antonio I I have encountered other kiddos not very many that is that are very similar in the depth of their aloneness and the awareness of how alone they are it's um it's so devastating. But I also see you know I also feel like that space that you had that was so empty I hate to say that it was by design because it is so incredibly painful. But I feel that that is one way that God calls you is that your God size hole right was so much bigger than perhaps others because God has more for you. You know he he just had something so special for you right that you would understand that you would you would grasp and it would it would be deeper. It would mean something different for you at that age.

Purpose Dreams And Hard Losses

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Right. And it it was just it you know it it's devastating it is it is and to be honest I didn't I didn't really feel like I'd make it to past 25 you know it's just because you thought you might take your own life or that you just couldn't see past I couldn't see it. I couldn't see it um in all honesty like I wanted to join the military that was that was the biggest thing when I was a kid I saw saving private ryan when I was like four years old in the city I was so old about something and and that didn't the Omaha beach scene did not affect me. Yeah like it didn't and then like I was playing Call of Duty the the original Call of Duty and um I I wanted I I had you know I had friends who well I had my dad's friends I had people around me that were in the military you know law enforcement and then I you know special uh my dad's friends some were special uh retired special forces and I was reading books about it and you know I knew the gra I I knew for a kid the gravity of the situation you know being in war and um that you could die. Yeah that I could die but I wanted to be a door kicker. Like I wanted to kick doors down kill bad guys go home you know smoke cigars you know to the fat lady things you know that type of thing and and you know I was like I was like you know if that kills me you know at least I went I will at least I went down fighting. Yeah you know I and I You weren't afraid yeah I had I had some sort of uh purpose you know and and during that time I really you know I wasn't in sports I did karate and then my my karate teacher died of a heart attack in in a he he had a heart attack in the shower and I was in middle school and that that devastated me. Yeah I I when I got the news like I would cried for like four hours they sent me home because I like I was so distraught about it.

SPEAKER_05 41:48

You're such a feeler I know I it like I I um you know but that's you try to put the the the face on and it's just right that that you know I I do I do feel and I do feel very very much so yeah you're old soul you're I I don't that's not a Christian term so I need to rephrase but you um were very aware and very very mature for your age and I think it's because you saw past all the surface stuff you understood the depth you understood the meaning you understood you understood way more than probably what you were able to articulate yes or or even um comprehend but it was still going in and you you were understanding it.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Right yeah understood it's heavy yeah understood it to the best that I could yeah you know and without language or or meaning to know what it was you were going through. Exactly yeah and and um you know it was just it it was it was hard for me and no doubt you know going back to you know junior year I I started to become friends with Mark like really close friends to him and and um he invited me to church uh was it my junior year or senior year well one of those one of those years and then Daniel did too but you know I was like oh I'm going to the Nazarene not really going to the Nazarene but that but I had felt you know at least loyalty because I was going there every once in a while and you know kind of just put it away I was you know they and they they didn't push it you know I always saw Daniel uh you know because Daniel's like six foot five or something like that. He in high school he was the tallest guy he towered over everybody.

SPEAKER_05 43:37

I think he just recently came back to the Lord right he did.

Music Wins And Conflict Under Pressure

Theater, New York, And Belonging

SPEAKER_01 43:40

Yeah he did I'm so happy for him and um I hope to see him. He's in uh Waco now so he's he's a little closer to me but you know it's like I I hope to see him again one day, you know, good Lord willing and I hope I hope that um Lord willing we can all come back the our uh our group our clique Fernando Mark myself Adam Daniel Manuel I everybody I have a picture I have a picture of the of our group um when we went on um we went on a retreat I think it was 2016 and it had you know the Silvas uh Pastor Kane and his children and uh Brianna Michael uh manual um Daniel you know Fernando and uh everybody else I was Hannah and all the all these people that were in there and you know sometimes I I don't have it framed anymore I I used to have it framed because I I really cherish that moment but you know I hope one day like we can all come back together you know Lord willing here on earth we'll we'll all see each other you know in the in the in the pearly gates and on the golden streets but you know we'll you know I I hope one day that we can all like see each other again and you know rejoice in the Lord for that you know he brought us all back together but um going back to it you know it was it was difficult you know my junior year was a lot better um I've got or my going back to my music career um I went to Allstate I went to Allstate um and um co cow uh it's called Coda Allstate and it's a it's a honors orchestra you know you have to audition to get in I got principal in the in the symphony which is the first chair and I I like completely upset everybody because I was just this this the one kid from El Diamante and you got all these San Francisco Santa Monica kids you know that yeah that are playing like real stuff in their youth orchestras and all of a sudden this this goofy this goofy central valley kid just shows up and and wins and um wow and I I had a great time I met the I met my conductor and mentor Thomas Loenheim uh who's the the uh he's the cello teacher the string chair and the orchestra director for Fresno State and so that was the first time I met him in 2012. Now going into 2013 my junior year it I went into the symphony which is the group the the higher level group and I didn't do good at all. I think I was last chair for that and um I got into a I almost got into a fist fight with the cellist because I I bumped into his there's so much the backstory with that but basically long story short I bumped his cello on accident and then he got in my face and during the concert and made a whole scene and I tried to I tried to uh I tried to uh de escalate as much as I could but I was surrounded by everybody like the the bunch of kids just formed a circle around me and this guy's threatening to kill me right like he's going he like devil just was like you know just like it just came out of him you know I don't I don't say that lightly but it was just kind of like you know like he just exploded you know and and I got really mad my dad saw it my my parents were upstairs and my dad just had knee surgery so he's walking up the stairs and my mom is watching this and she she tells me she goes something changed in your face in your stance and she yelled at my dad she's like go and my dad's like hobbling down the stairs trying to get down there and to get you know to to break everything up and then um they pulled the guy off of me finally and I yelled at him I was like I don't cut your effing head off I was a kid and you know I was a cuss very graphic oh yeah I was I was I in my head because I was I was going through the situation I was like I can't say it I have to say something that he'll stop but in in light of all that everybody heard me and my face went white my dad saw it it heard it and my face went white and I was like well we gotta go play Beethoven now we gotta and I'll he was the last kid to come upstairs and I got this German conductor give I I I've never seen a conductor give me the this the the worst stink I I've ever seen as a musician. We played Eggman and a bunch of other pieces I don't remember and and um they wanted to do a report so this is part of my character I I I went and I told the truth you know I this is exactly what I said I I did this I did that and um they're like okay well you'll hear something from the teacher and or hear something from the the association about it. So I was like okay I come back and I I go and talk with uh Tackett and I go hey did you did you hear about what happened over the weekend I was in Stockton too or no it was in Redlands the University of Redlands that we were at and um he goes no why he goes it and I just looked at him and goes Antonio what'd you do? Because they knew they because I I had gotten into fights in high school and middle school so he was like familiar with it and I told him what happened he's like no Antonio you can't do that and and then they never sent anything and then when I auditioned again for my senior year they accepted me they accepted me and I showed they all knew my name they all knew my name but you know nothing nothing bad happened that year and uh but you know that was kind of like my musical career at that point you know I was I was doing a lot uh I did my first musical for Tularie County Office of Education which was Fiddler on the roof and that got me hooked on on musical theater like I love theater my my dream job is to win an opera position a full-time opera position uh it's just there's something magical about putting music to what's happening on stage and I I can't get enough of it like I it's just even though I'm playing the same thing every night the crowd's different the energy's different I I've had dead crowds that were just wouldn't laugh at anything wouldn't laugh at anything or go shocking or whatever and then they come up to me afterwards say that was the greatest show we saw it on Broadway we you guys did it so much better than what they did on Broadway. And then I've had shows where the crowd was just bombastic bombastically funny right and they would just they would just go along with everything and and it was wonderful and and I I that really hooked me but I was still kind of like I'm not gonna do it professionally like this is just going to be a thing I do every summer. Yeah yeah and um my senior year we go to New York uh so I got into the the chamber choir uh that the most sort the the choirs at the musical the the musical qualities at Ldiamonte back in that time from 2008 to 2014 15 so my uh my director left uh Tackett left he got the job at COS rebuilt that whole program um but the music program at LD was still really strong I mean really strong like they were going like choir we went to New York and we were singing at you know Empire State we went to this uh African African uh Methodist Episcopal church we were featured guests and we were doing like uh spirituals and stuff like that singing spirituals and um I went to New York with Mark and uh Daniel and I became really good friends. I love Daniel because it was just like just he was just the towering giant and I always loved being around him you know and would always just like we were just good acquaintances and probably good friends I would say at that time and um you know Mark and I Mark and I just really like grew. I I became so much more social um because of that. Uh the chamber choir really kind of changed my outlook on things because we had a chamber retreat and it's tradition at the chamber retreat over the campfire that um people start sharing things like very very like vulnerable vulnerable. Yeah and you know I don't remember what I said but it was it was just a bond with everybody. I was good acquaintances with everybody but it was just it was it was a type of acquaintance that you know I can work with these people and you know I can I can be vulnerable with them. And that really changed kind of my outlook on things and my life you know that like hey you know they like everybody's going through something you know and um you know you're not the only one. You know even though like I feel incredibly lonely all the time it's just it's just you know I have this out I have this outlet you know and the to to be in this and and you know when Tackett left um the orchestra wasn't as good as it used to be you know and uh I started to kind of fall out with I with the bass in particular. I just started taking um private lessons and and you know it was just kind of like um I I I just didn't see myself like really playing the bass. My dad sold his car though when I was a junior to buy me uh an upright I'll be forever grateful. I had to get wow I had to give it away I had to sell it to get the conversion on my base that's that can fly with me now. And I I really didn't want to sell it but I I was just like I the only way I could pay for it is if I sell that base and um I'm forever grateful for that bass and for what my dad did um he sold he sold his uh his his Mustang convertible to to pay for it. Wow and um I did it you know and and I I continued doing musicals and I continued um I started working a little bit like outside um doing a couple gigs here and there and were you were you did you find joy in those things?

SPEAKER_05 54:09

Like did the loneliness hit you when you would be at home by yourself? Yeah absolutely absolutely but if you were out doing music or you you felt some form of life.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

Absolutely it felt like I this happens every concert but I get I get this high it takes me forever to pack up.

SPEAKER_05 54:28

Like I'm always the last one to leave the very um things matter so deeply to you like even your choice of words and acquaintance you've used that several times. Yeah you you understand the difference between a casual friend versus someone that you would call a friend versus the rest of us we just call everybody a friend but you very much understand the difference and the meaning for it. So you know I think that's beautiful though Antonio.

Military Door Closes And Vision Loss

First Night At Lighthouse And Relief

SPEAKER_01 55:01

Yeah because you know I I want I'm not gonna come on here and say like I was friends with everybody. Like I was friends with I I would say I was friends with Daniel and Mark especially but like everybody else they were they were just acquaintances you know I I never but most people don't even know how to distinguish between those two words in in a meaningful way the way you the way you understand and in the way it feels for you. Right. And I would always be for them there for them. Sure if they if they needed help with something I'd you know I I'd would a different understanding of of the debt exactly of of where they stood with this very surface level right like I might say you know like how you doing uh the weather's good you know everything okay with you yeah okay I'll see you later yeah you know it was it's like it it was just like that you know and mark mark and I you know love him to death and uh I need to call him more um I started I've started contacting some of my some of my old brothers and um I need to do it more and uh we all do it I feel really bad about it you know and and uh it all started about a month ago when I was in Helena I was this I was praying uh I was in uh Bozeman uh getting ready to leave and I was sitting in the in the airport I've been so many airports now it's like I just sit there and I just start talking to God. I I try to I I will say that the last month has been really really hard on me and just spiritually and physically and everything and it and I I feel bad for not talking to God a lot uh as much as I would during that the the other time but you know it's like God in his mercy and his grace on us and and um I just you know it was just the family you know I I mark uh Mark's family went with us to New York and it was just like that was I think I think uh that it'll tell you like I never left I never I never left left them to go do whatever I wanted in New York like oh you didn't wander away I didn't wander like you did with other people exactly other groups I didn't wander away that's very telling yeah and uh didn't wander away you know if I didn't if I didn't do anything you know it was like I was just in the hotel or anything like that but you know when we were out and about walking around I never you know I never would uh leave them and and get up and just vanish and um well that's profound yeah and because he was the one that brought me to church so we graduated you know we had a big old party you know this and that it with uh Mark and my uh friend Christian who's not in church um he went into the Navy after that so I never I never saw him again but um uh we graduated I tried to get in the military but I was medically disqualified because my eyes found out that I have some sort of ret uh some sort of retina genetic disease called retinitis pigmentosa I have an unusual variant and I would go to UCLA every year because it the it degenerates real it did basically I have macular degeneration in reverse can't see out of my peripherals um can't see out my peripherals in both eyes in both eyes yeah and I have night blindness on top of that so um it's doesn't stop me from like wandering off yeah but but um but you know it it it has affected me in that you know I I couldn't join the military um I tried through the band because if I get into the band I but I had no idea of how like to audition for this stuff I just always would get in and win you know and and you didn't know the process didn't know the process right and how much would be needed to win and I got a letter from the commander uh the premiere band I was auditioning for the Air Force premiere band in Washington DC and she sent me a letter saying you know like hey come back you know it was a terrible audition it was a terrible audition but they they they realized like oh you know like we can't you know he's just a kid coming out of high school you know it's like he hasn't even graduated yet like um you know they sent me a letter she sent me a handwritten letter and uh you know just like hey come back when you have some more experience you know and not and I didn't take it as a devastation I was like okay I'll just get into the military I want to be a PJ like I want to go in I um their insignia as an angel is it has there's an angel uh with parachute on top and it's red beret right yep and it's for that for um what was their motto so that others may live yeah so that others may live and I I really wanted to join that you know it's like why not like jump in like I saw I I there was a Nat Geographic show that followed those guys in particular I was watching that like crazy like that that was like I wanted to do that you know and like I'm I be a doctor you know in the sky just go in get them get out like you know that that's exhilarating right and never been like I'd rather jump out of a plane I've jumped out of a plane a couple times um pair uh skydiving than be on a roller coaster I hate roller coasters like I just hate the feeling of like you the inside but free falling from 1300 feet is like the greatest thing ever to me and um they're different you don't your stomach doesn't drop to your no only only on the roller coasters i it's because I'm stuck to it if you see any if you notice any of the the similarities I don't like to be uh right you don't want to no confinement I'd rather fall I'd rather fly out of a plane you know like uh jump out of a plane than than uh be confined to a roller coaster and um you know that didn't happen so uh I had a recruiter that was really gung-ho for me she uh went on maternity leave and then I got another guy and he was basically like I told him up front like I have night blind I didn't know it was automatic disqualification and so I could have lied like many like many people do and become like grand heroes like you'll be surprised how many World War II uh vets and people that have accomplished like really great things like they failed the eye exam and lied and memorized the test to get in you know because they didn't want to they didn't want to be that that guy that didn't get in. Yeah and um you know I was truthful and I said you know I had night minus I have no peripheral vision the guy was like okay then you just you know we have a copy of the birth certificate and all that stuff and and uh I gave them my stuff and they never called me never called me and I tried calling him a bunch of times and my mom my mom like knew something was fishy because you know military doesn't let recruits just vent and like right leave the next right they're gonna they're gonna keep you yeah somehow some way they're gonna try to keep you yeah and um I got a hold of the guy by calling the office number but not his cell phone I kept calling his cell phone I called the office number didn't recognize and he's like oh yeah your stuff is uh you know still being looked at right now I don't know if they threw it in the incinerator or did whatever well my what they didn't know was my mom has cousins that are uh they were lieutenants um that worked in the Pentagon and she called them up asked for a favor and they were trying to look for my papers and they said your papers never showed up so I I wasn't devastated I was like okay you know I'll just go get a regular job you know and my and I had graduated and I was like okay I'm gonna go find a regular job you know and I'm I'm gonna move out and find my own place that type of stuff and my mom's like no you're going to COS it's like what so yeah you're going to COS I was like okay and um I had were you regularly going to church at this time not not at that point I just started so it was about June when my mom kind of just was like no you're going to COS you're gonna do music and I was like okay so I just I just went along with it you know because I I didn't have anything better to do. It was July or it was late it was about mid-June. I think it was about mid-June. Yeah and um it was it was a Friday night it's like six it was like six I remember this it was like 6 53 and um I called Mark because I just remembered like the service what time the service was what the church was called and uh what time the service started and um I called Mark up and he was on the he was on the he was on the platform the choir and stuff like that the the youth choir and um I called him and I was like hey uh I know it's late but can I can I get a ride to church? I was like I got nothing better to do and and uh I r I just remembered you know and and um he's like yeah yeah yeah I'll be there in a second they they waited for me wow they waited for me they didn't uh I think we were the uh one of the few last ones to come in you know church church back then didn't need to start at right as the countdown right you know the timer and um yeah they wait you know brother Jeremy brother Jeremy always asking you start the service off with asking like what God did for them over the week uh over the week and I sat there I was in shorts and I think I had a backwards hat and a little cross a little cross on my neck wooden cross that was given to me um and one of the Nazarene surfaces that you know they were like write the problem that that has like consumed you or you know that you want to break free from and I I had wrote at the time I was like I wrote lust in the back because I had the the problem and the moment I walked into the church was like everything that was eating me was just gone. Wow immediately you felt it not I didn't feel God but immediately it was like it was like the stuff that was bothering me was gone. I find it interesting your reaction is it's almost like it disappeared from your head in your ears yeah it just lifted it just lifted off of me you know it was like because for me it's it's it's all like I don't I don't really get I don't feel problems in my body. I I it's up here in your head it's in my head and um it just all vanished you know was that that was when uh the silvas were there Tamara was there uh hay I always loved it. Um, the youth services with Jeremy and that you know, it's like you were you were 30 something years old and you just showed up, like who cares, you know? And um that was the first time, and um I think I continue I I can't remember if I if it was every Friday at least after that, and then I started going Sunday. Started going on Sunday mornings, and um then Wednesday nights, you know, it's just it just was like gradually, and Mark would always pick me up and or I would just get dropped off, you know, and you know, I still felt alone. Like it was still it it was still there, you know. Like there were days where I just sat on the rail, you know, or or like hanged out on the rail. They'd play volleyball. It was hard for me. I couldn't, I couldn't, you know, I didn't want to be I didn't want to be the guy that caused the team to lose because I didn't see the ball or I ran into somebody because it was always a 'cause use service at that time is at night.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:07

So with your night blindness you wouldn't be able to see.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:10

Right. And and I was always afraid of like decking a girl because it was always uh I would always like run into women like and like really hit them because I wouldn't see them. And all of a sudden I just like full force shoulder check them. You know, I'm like, oh crap, you know, like and and I didn't that didn't do anything for you, not you know, feeling awkward. Yeah, that didn't do any favors for me with the women, you know. And you know, I didn't want to be that guy that just like shoulder checks a woman. It's like, oh crud.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:42

And for those of you at home, Pastor Jeremy Kane, our pastor, was youth pastor for I believe 21 years before he stepped in to take over the church as bishop retired.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:55

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:56

So so many of his youth, like you, you just grew up loving him because youth was so um accessible. It was you know, you it was just so raw and real, and and um you got to really know the people, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:14

Absolutely. It was not it was not uh formalized. It was not a formal uh performative thing to go to youth service. It was it was like we Jeremy would always Pastor Jeremy would always um you know we would go we would go on for like half hours sometimes about talking about like you know what God did for them over the weekend. Like he would he would wait, like he would be like anybody else, and just he's yeah, he would sit there and wait.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:42

He's great like that. Yeah, and and you know Well, he genuinely he genuinely loves people.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:49

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:49

And he wanted to know he felt he yes, he does want to know, yeah. But I it's so uh that is what you needed. Exactly. Uh someone to see you because that is a theme throughout everything you said is nobody noticed. Yeah. And you know, I think I don't know how you feel now that you're almost 30 this year. If you were born in 1996, this is 2026. So but I I think people see others that are sitting. I think that a lot of people are insecure in themselves. Yeah. They don't know what to say, they don't know if they're gonna say the wrong thing, you know, and and I think also they don't wanna make make that person feel bad because they are saying something. Right. Like it's just such a catch 22, I think probably for both sides of that dynamic. But but to be where you were at and to be so aware that um nobody noticed I I will say Antonio I'm grateful. Um as a Christian and as a therapist, I'm grateful that you cried because I think it was needful. You got it out. Uh one of my questions was gonna be whether or not you liked fighting. No. Because um I wonder if that was a test of the enemy to see if he could lure you into aggression, because you know, many people that feel how you felt find aggression exhilarating for them, liberating for them, because it's a sense of control and it gives them an outlet, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:50

Um I never felt that way. Uh it was always last resort.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:55

I always, I always am like trying to de-escalate. And I I will say, like, I I have been I have this weird ability to kind of like feel that there's this is the point of no return.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:11

Like if you're if we're gonna fight, we're gonna fight now. Like it'd be like it's always like a few. Yeah, and that that's what happened when I uh when I the first and only time I ever like physically instigated a fight was I got this kid in this in my face. Um calling me uh be with an itch and doing all this stuff. And uh he I dropped a lug nut, he hated me in the class, he just like picked on me all the time. I dropped a lug nut and I'm I'm about to pick it up, and then he calls, you know, he's like he's like pick it up, huh? You know, and I was like, excuse me? And he's like, pick it up, B, pick it up. And I was like, No, you know, I was like, I was like, You really gonna do this? And um, he just got all up in my face, right? Because it's it's just man thing to do, just like shove your nose into somebody's face. And you know, I'm making fun of him because I'm I'm like sick of this kid. I'm like, your breath smells back up right now, you know, and so you held your ground.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:07

You weren't you weren't like uh I I don't back down, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:11

But do I revel in the fighting? No, yeah, and and but with him in particular, like I needed this was in front of the auto shop class. Like we're in class when all this is happening, and you know that I naturally I knew I I wasn't thinking this, but naturally I needed to I needed to like put this kid in his place because this this is getting annoying, right? Because this kid in particular uh always liked to pick on me for some reason, and you know, everybody's watching, so you know, they like this is gonna live or die here, right? And so I slapped him. I slapped the crap out of him, and he was so shocked out of he was so shocked from it, and then I knew I was like, it's on, like we're we're going. Like I know I I know I I instigated it, but he was so shocked by that that um the teacher was like, uh I'll change this. Well, uh he's like, Jeremiah, Jeremiah, go to the corner, and he's like, he's still like in shock, like he just got so much.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:16

Well, yeah, because he thought he was gonna push you around.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:19

Right, you know, he's like six foot two, you know, or to six foot three. He's like, he's he's towering me. And I slapped him. And um, he he when he finally snapped out of it, he realized like he he just lost this, and he he goes and paints, he punches the paint cabinet, right? And I was I was like, I was like, you're gonna get it now. And I said, You mad, bro? I go, that was the thing. That was the thing that the kids were saying back then. It was like, you mad, bro? Because he punched the paint can, uh, the paint that cabinet, and then I got in trouble by that. And my um the the principal, the or the vice principal was telling me, like, because I told the truth. I was like, you know, I I instigated the fight, and my lawyer showed up, my mother showed up, and uh she was like, You told him what? Like, because I just told him the truth. Like, yeah, you know, he he was verbally instigating me, and um, I physically started it. And the vice principal was like, Oh, you should have just let him just you know say whatever and you know does it. Yeah, that's not okay though. It's not okay for you to get physically, you know, involved. And my mom was like, go sit outside. And um she closed the door and she chewed out the vice. The vice principal never looked at me the same ever again after that. And um, they stopped, they stopped messing with me after that, right? And um, it didn't help that all the the girls that were around him saw that. Yeah, and that that, you know, because women are uh for for kids at that age, for guys at that age, you know, women are a great uh litmus test of where you are.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:53

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:54

And uh yeah, he he threatened me on Facebook. This was like early when Facebook started. He found my account, threatened me, and I was like, I was laughing the whole time. I was like, hey, look at this, mom. Like I was I had a whole thing typed out ready to, and she's like, no, don't say anything. They they send it to my uh academic advisor, and then he he was never seen again. He moved to a different school after that. Because I got suspended for three days and I had to come back and do a final. My teacher was not happy about that. Yeah, but um, I was suspended for three days, and then I think he got um expelled or something like that, or highly suspended. He moved schools, never saw him again. And but you know, I never like with that, and even when I was like, you know, I'm gonna cut your, you know, I'm gonna the physical altercation um at the at the concert, like I never I never want to get physical. I try to do all my best because I know I know the consequences that can happen. Like, as I even when I was that young, like I knew somebody can get killed. Yeah, I knew it. Like if he fits if I hit him and he falls on his head wrong way, he's dead. Like that, that was just that was his nature, you know. You know, games, games like had shown me that because I I I was not like a big Call of Duty player, you know, like Modern Warfare 2 lobbies, all all you that know know all those crazy all the craziness that was in there. But um, you know, I was an RPG guy, I was a role-playing guy. I love playing role-playing games. Like, I played uh the game that really affected me was a game called Mass Effect. It was a game that um your choices meant something.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:36

And you know, it like how old were you when you started playing that game?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:40

Because I wonder how much 2010. It was a 2010. So um I played the first game I played was Mass Effect 2. That was when Mass Effect 2 came out. I I I bought that game, I could not put that game down because it was like I was the I was the hero in the story, right? Like uh and then I bought the first game. And the the the cool thing about this game series is that your choices that you made in the first game can transfer over to the second game, and your choices uh directly affect what happens in the second game, right? So like if I if I one of the major uh one of the major decisions was which of your crew to leave behind to sacrifice, you have you you have to save one, and you can't save both of them. They make it deliberately where you can't save both of them, and you have to choose. And it's like, um, do you really like this character? Do you not like this character, you know, and and the these characters are so fleshed out. Like I love, I love stories.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:43

I mean, you were already wired for things to mean so much to you, and that was such a great fit, but probably also just added to how serious you were about everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:56

Right. And and I couldn't, I couldn't put it down. It was amazing. You know, it was so exhilarating. Like you're you you know, you're the you're I I hate to say it say it, but basically you you are the hero, you are the savior in the story, right? And um your choices matter. Like people look up to you, you know, the I should say the NPCs, non-player characters, they look, they look up to you.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:19

And you know, and it's like your decisions directly affect of what like what happens in the menu. Mass Effect 2 had uh you're basically it's a it's a character-driven story, it's not a overarching, like mass, there is a massive threat, but the the focus is on the characters, and they these characters are so like fleshed out, and they deeply affected me. And it was like you could romance characters and stuff like that. So meaning like um like develop relationships, romantic relationships and stuff like that, and then you get like a you get a payoff at the end and stuff like that, but it's all building towards a suicide mission where like you have to enter into this relay and get the bad guys and um and you know, you my therapy brain just kicked in that kind of it bothers me so much, but go on. No, but but it was just like you know, you have to make choices, and if you don't make the right choices, like your teammates die, and you know, you might not get the best possible ending. And so I was obsessed with that game. I think I put I think Mass Effect 2, I put like 700 hours in it into it. Most of some of it, most of it was like paused, like I'd pause and like leave and come back. But I was obsessed with it. And then I played Mass Effect 1 and then my care my you know, it would transfer over. 2012 Mass Effect 3 came out. That was the I I that was the one time I stayed home. I bought it. I went to the midnight release, I got the collector's edition. Like I wanted to see how this story ends, right? Because I was just like, I I spent three years of my life with these characters, you know, and and I wanted to see how this ends. Like this is the big shebane, the reapers are here, they're gonna extinguish, they're gonna uh it's a it's a space opera, basically. And you know, there's alien characters and human characters and all this, and you're a human, uh, and uh you can play as male, female, you know, that type of thing, and uh have different relationships. And it was just like I wanted to see how it ended. And I remember when the last uh piece of downloadable content came out, last DLC came out, it was Citadel. And Citadel is the place, the hub where you where you go to. Basically, it's it's the the developer's love letter to to the fans, right? It was it was so it's a goofy DLC, it's a goofy story, but it's so heartfelt, and just like you know, you like thank you for being with us the whole time. And I I went through it and when the last scene played, and it was like, you know, the characters were like, you know, uh, because this is right before the the final mission, uh, you have to go back to take back Earth, it's been completely destroyed, and this is basically the last stand, right? The Reapers are all like this overwhelming threat that's gonna extinct extinguish all life in the galaxy, and um you're the you're the the spearhead, you're the tip of the spear. And um the last scene of the Citadel, uh, it has all your friends, like you just had this party, you know, this R ⁇ R party, you know, it's like everything rough up to this point. And the characters were like, you know, we had we had some of the best times on this ship, and you know, and then the the your character shepherd goes, you know, the best. And I I I got off the game and I went straight to I cried the whole night. I cried myself to sleep. It was so just the first time I played it, it was so like deeply emotional for me because I spent I spent so I think uh invested so much. It was like 2014 when when that DLC finally came out, it was 2014. I had spent like four years of my life being with these characters and they they got me through all that.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:13

Yeah, it was real, it was it was real, and you know, and that got me through a lot of the hard, you know, kind of the hardship so you felt like that made up a little bit for the loneliness, the whole and and and that's probably there was a subconscious place for you that knows if that's over, then you're gonna go back to that place of that being alone. Was the pornography still very much part of that as well? That didn't leave okay, and then so you come to church, absolutely and and right away, Antonio, did you did you feel like you were home? Did it feel like family or did that take a while?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:54

It was fast. It um did I feel like it was home? No, but was it better? Yes. It like not not completely there yet, but I wanted to go. Yeah. Like it was like I wanted to go.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:06

And you found a place of belonging.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:09

I found a place of belonging, and you know, uh, you know, for uh for transparency, you know, it it wasn't the you know, I was also drawn by the girls. Like I'd never been in a relationship, really. And so, you know, of course, you know, it was like it was there, you know, like beautiful. I I'd never seen, I'd never seen, you know, apostolic women before, you know, in the dresses, no makeup, and I was just like, wow, you know, like like this is different, you know. Everybody's kind of just this was way before, you know, this way before what people wear now, but still it was like they would like just didn't interest me.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:45

That wasn't that was only like 10 years ago. That that's I know it's a lot has changed in in a short amount of time, yeah.

Receiving The Holy Ghost Unexpectedly

SPEAKER_01 1:23:53

Yeah, yeah, and you know, but but it was you know, it was God. He was drawing me. And yeah, I didn't have any Bible studies with anybody, you know, just was going to church, you know, just listening to the messages. And I it was one Sunday, I think. And you know, I I just enjoyed the the running, the shouting, and all that. I when we went to that AME church when we went to New York, we were we were featured guests in the choir booth. And you know, black church is just like, you know, we're we're like two hours into praise and worship, you know, like R and V and we're like, yeah, you know, I'm like, yeah, this is I I like this. Like I'm tired of the CLC, uh, the it's CLC, the CN uh CCM music, you know, where it's all kind of like atmospheric and you know, there they are like playing funk and R and B. And I'm just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is great. And but when I came to when I came to Pentecostal life, it was different, you know. It was just like it, there was something behind it instead of like, oh, it feels good, you know, the group feels good. You know, it was just there was something behind it. And that one, that one Sunday, it was like I went up and uh went up to the altar. I I always sat up front. I always sat up front. And uh never, never really when I when I came to church, I never felt I I never felt the need to sit in the back. It was always like, hey, I was gonna sit up front, there's no seat, you know. It wasn't wasn't a big deal to me. And um and I just lifted my hands and uh an older I can't remember who prayed for me, but an older lady prayed for me, and then I started I started uh mumble mumble jumble, you know, it's just just mumbling.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:31

Prayer language.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:31

Yeah, just prayer language, and I started speaking in a really bad other tongue, you know. It's like it wasn't as it wasn't as pronounced as it is now, but um yeah, I just started speaking, I just started speaking in tongues. I didn't feel a thing, like I didn't feel a thing. There was no like you know, that just like washed over me or anything like that. It was basically just I just started speaking, and it nobody noticed. Mark noticed because Mark noticed, and he's like, uh after the service, he's like, bro, did you get the Holy Ghost? Oh and he had been searching for, he had been pining for it. Yeah, he didn't get it until senior camp that July. Wow. So this was about mid-July, I think. It was right before senior camp. And uh he asked me, he goes, Did you get the Holy Ghost? And I was like, What's that? Didn't didn't know anything about it, right? I was like, What's that? And he goes, Well, God fills you with your with his spirit, and then you start speaking in other times. I was like, I don't know. Like I don't know what I got. And he's like, Do we were you speaking something like you that you just didn't? I heard it, right? Like I I've heard uh You heard yourself. I heard myself, and then I you know, just like being in the church, I like I heard I was like, it didn't bother me. I was like, hey, cool, you know, like I hear people going, yeah, you know, and all this stuff, and and I was like, Oh, that's cool, you know. It didn't bother me at all. And uh, and then I started doing it, and then um he comes up to Bishop McPhail. He's like, he's all uh uh bishop just got done preaching and he was on the podium and and Mark goes, Hey, Pastor, I think I think Antonio got the Holy Ghost. He's like, What? You know, he's like he's like what? And um he's like, Oh, that's great. And then he started going through the questionnaire and and and I was like, Yeah, I think that's what was happening. Yeah, I think so, yeah. And then um, and then I started uh Bishop Bishop started up his new convert, uh his new convert class on Sunday morning. So I went I started going to that. And then I I don't think uh I don't remember when I wanted to get baptized. Um I don't know who was preaching. Somebody was preaching fire and brimstone, basically. And um I I heard it and I got I got scared. Like I was genuinely scared, you know. I was always afraid, like I was always afraid of hell. I had a picture of hell, you know, burning the lake of fire and stuff like that. My picture of hell now is a lot different than than back then, but you know, I thought. But basically it was a lake of fire. You know, I was afraid of that. And I came to Pastor. I I came to Pastor in his office. I was like, Pastor, I want to be baptized now. Like, I don't want to go to hell. Let's go. Let's get baptized. You know, and any other any other church, they would have done it immediately. But Bishop said, Okay, okay, let's let's hold off on this. And he started, he started talking to me. I was like, he started talking to me about like what it means to be baptized. And I was like, Pastor, I don't let's let's do this now. Like you just uh whoever I can't remember if it was actually Bishop that was preaching or if it was a guest preacher that came in, an evangelist. But I was like, you just were saying that we can't guarantee, there's no guarantee about tomorrow. Like, let's go, let's do this. Yeah, I don't care about wet clothes, let's go and do this right now. And he was like, No, let's let's wait until two let's wait until Wednesday. No. Every time when I tell people that, they get real funny.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:56

Right, right. Because we're all about like, let's go. Yes, we're with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:01

And absolutely, I'm I'm for that too.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:03

Yeah, but he wanted you to understand.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:06

Well, and also he wanted my family to show up.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:09

Yeah, but that was that's yeah, and that wonderful.

Baptism Day And Family Transformation

SPEAKER_01 1:29:12

And because it's special, right, exactly. And what happened was that was the first time all my family came to church. So my my parents and my sister. So they saw me get baptized. It was the they did the Wednesday after that Sunday. So, you know, I was all ready for it. And you know, I was like, hey, I'll I'm I'm in the baptismal tank, you know, and and uh Pastor Jeremy baptizes me, right? It's a Wednesday night. And this time I felt something. It was like, you know, I I know people sometimes like they feel terrible or the uh you know they feel like the you know the best thing in the world. And I did, I did that, I did that day. When I went down in the water, I came back up, it was like it was like something just lifted off of me, right? And I was in the tank for like 25 minutes after the baptism. I was in the tank for a long time. I was just praying and and praising God. And then Pastor Jeremy had to go in, and he he looks over the corner and he goes, Hey, is everything okay? I was like, Yeah, I just feel awesome. And he's like, Oh, okay. And then and then he went back into the service, and then I I got changed and all that.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:17

But um I love that you did that though. You just lingered in the presence of God.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:22

Yeah, they closed the door, and you know, you just see me, you just see my my shadow just go back and forth. And um, you know, my parents saw that, my sister saw that, and you know, um speaking about my family, my my dad got the Holy Ghost. Uh when Brother Urpal Dean came a month a couple months after that, and then my sister got it. Um my s my my sister got it, but the last one to get it was my mom. So all my family has been baptized uh within like I think two or three years when I was in church. Wow. And um I thought my sister was gonna be the hard one to crack, but she was the the one after my dad. And my dad, after my dad used to have night terrors, and um, you know, I I was always understanding uh going back to kind of the reality of the situation. Um I had a story from my uh high school principal. He had basically his dad was a cop, and kid had a fight with his dad. They didn't he didn't say I loved you when he got out of the car. Well, dad was killed and and his dad was killed in a traffic stop. And um I remember I was sitting in the audio, I started crying. Like I just started crying because I was like, I could never do that to my dad. Like leave him, you know, when he goes to work. Like my dad's been attacked a couple times, he's been injured. So like I made it, I made it my life's purpose that I wouldn't even if I'm mad at my loved one or something like that, that I would never if things aren't resolved, I would never leave and not tell them I loved them.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:06

That the the last thing on his mind was that his son didn't say that I I loved him. And I couldn't I couldn't let that happen. And uh I didn't want and I knew the gravity, you know. My correctional officers are very dangerous. Right. And um and so, you know, it was it was so um it, you know, it that that's just what I lived by, you know, and and I always I would always even like even when I'm fighting with somebody or you know, or having an argument and things aren't resolved, like I'll always like I'll always, you know, be there and not you know, not let the argument take control of everything. And um going, you know, going back to that, it was it was like, you know, I watching my dad get the Holy Ghost and the night terrors, they disappeared. Like after he got baptized, they disappeared. Because my dad would would come out, so like he used to sleepwalk. Like he would he would be on the job and he'd be like, he'd be like, Are we gonna take him out? Like he'd come out sleeping, like if he could if he was um doing a double or working a di a different shift, he would come out sometimes and he would um be like, Are we gonna take him out? What what are we doing here? You know, like he's at work. And and we'd be like, Dad, go to sleep. And then he would just mumble and then go back to sleep. And then, you know, when my dad got the Holy Ghost and he got baptized, you know, that all went away.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:36

Yeah.

Family Slides And Creative Faith Tension

SPEAKER_01 1:33:37

And um he hadn't he hasn't had night terrors since. He's had a couple of them uh since I I I left the church, but um, but you know, it's just kind of like you know Do your parents go to church now? No, not really. So they they have um they have backslidden and um and I I believe well let me let me let me let me tout this. So when I started to when I started to slide away, my family started to slide away. Now it's not my fault, right? But you know, I was I was uh for good influence. Yeah, I was my family's influence. And basically all all that leading up uh to you know me, uh I was I was like on fire for God. I was playing bass in church. That was my that was my job. I loved it. I love playing bass in church. Church is uh like I get more I get more uh from just playing bass in church than doing anything else, like music-wise. Of course, you know, I love I love doing what I do, but uh, you know, church is just something, you know. I'll never ever get over playing the same song for almost an hour and watching people break through.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:59

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:59

And then, you know, me getting off the bass, running around the church for a little bit, praising God, and then getting back on the bass and and start playing. And again, and it was just it's never like it's so effortlessly, and um, I loved it so much. And that's and that's why I was like, I was like, I could just be a janitor at you know, some place a lowly position, you know. I don't really not I wasn't really ambitious per se, but you know, I wanted to I wanted to serve God and I wanted to, you know, be in the ministry and do all this and do all that. And so, you know, I I just went through college, you know, I just I did my thing. I I I you know I was I was being a witness as much as I could. Um I wish I I I wish I was better at being a witness. And um it's some like I I remember when Ben I was listening to the Ben Bland podcast and I was sitting there and he had said like uh you know we like to hold it, we like to hold it in. And I was I I I will admit I was very convicted by it. And because you know, it's like I'm the only one, I'm the only one in the college sometimes. At OU, there's another, another sister that went to Urshan and she's doing her master's at OU. So it's the first time, first time my entire college career that there's another apostolic with me in the music department.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:27

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:28

So there because you know, we preach against we preach again there's like even with the Ben Bland podcast, like you you guys were talking about like you know, there's no there's no outlet for for creatives. There's really right, if I'm not a singer, right? You know, that like male singers have to sing high all the time. And if I'm not, you know, it you know, it's like musically, if I'm not a singer or you know, like a traveling, like really well-known bassist in there, it it it's it's like it's exactly like the music industry. Like right, I don't know anybody, and so like it's hard for me to, you know, it will it it's difficult to get you know into that and to get called, but the problem is I'm not getting paid for a lot of those things, you know. I had to pay bills somehow. And you know, but God, God is able, God told me long, God told me when I came back. He's like, he's like, I will give you, I will give you gigs. Don't I I he's he's our provider and exactly, exactly. And he's like he's been he's been working on me in the aspect of you know, I am looking for job security. Like I am looking for a full-time position, you know, that that 42-week season in an orchestra, you know, the full benefits, you know, and all that stuff, because you know, it's like uh I want to be a I want to provide for my wife and provide her a good a good life and everything else, and I want to have kids and I want to be able to do all that. And you know, God's just been working on me in that, you know, he's like, I'm gonna give you the jobs.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:06

And that's what he did with the Hell in the Symphony when I won. But we'll we'll talk more about that. But you know, going through uh community college, you know, did the best I can, um, witness to many people as much as I can and try to be a light, you know, uh try to um trying to stay above, you know, everything that's happening. And you know, just trying to stay apart from the world, but be in people's world.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:36

And that that's a hard balance.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:38

That's very hard.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:39

Especially for someone like you. Yeah because you're so uh deep and everything that you encounter has such significance and meaning. So it it's it's extra hard for somebody like you. Right. Which which you know it's it's a catch-22 double-edged sword because on the other hand, everything has so much meaning. Right. You feel it so deeply in such a wonderful way. You know, you really can experience um beauty, probably. The smell of a flower, probably, where you know, because for you it it is so significant, you know. Um, but I you're so young, and um I I wonder to myself, uh out loud, I guess, here, I wonder if God is just trying to teach you how to hold balance before you get to do it with all your heart in ministry. You know what I'm saying? Because you're you're you're gonna go all in. That's just the way you roll. And uh and we can't function in that as humans, right? And so having these other things that you simultaneously love, like a wife and and a career maybe that pays the bills and the Lord, like he's always gonna be first. But I just wonder if maybe he's just evolving you to be able to hold it all together so that you don't lose yourself by going all in, you know, just to pursue him, because that is easy to do with someone like you, because it is everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:32

Right. And you know, I tell God, I tell God, like the way how I'm the way how I have learned and continually learned his voice is basically what you want me to do. And I will do it like the first thing, the the thing like I do the first thing I hear. And the way how I the way how God talks to me is basically it's almost writing on the wall, like what happened with Nebuchadnezzar. I see it in my mind.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:56

Right.

Auditions, Anger, And Trusting God

SPEAKER_01 1:40:56

Right. And so they have visions, it right, and so like I I see it and I I I see it and I feel the words too. Now, has it always been that way? No, but that that's the point of trying to learn God's voice. Like you need to you need to be able to, you know, like discern it, discern it, and right, you know, there there was a time, so like there was the uh the Milwaukee symph Symphony audition. So that was a couple that was about a month ago. God was really pushing me to do that audition, but I was just not ready. I was not ready for it.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:30

But he's the difference.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:32

I know, I know. Well, I'll tell you what uh so we'll we'll talk about Helena right now. But basically, I was not ready for Helena either, and I had to do it. And um I I almost canceled, but I was like, I was like, I can't because he's he's telling me I have to do it. I was like, I have to do it. And so the day before, like nothing was work, nothing was working. I couldn't get through any of the reps. I uh any of the repertoire. I had about 15 excerpts plus a solo that I had to prepare, and they're gonna choose of those excerpt pools, and nothing was working, and you know, I um I'll be real, like I, you know, I was I was I was angry. I was angry, uh I'm always angry at myself just because I can't, uh you know, it's like things just don't come together, and I could just I could feel God just like like stop. I was like, I was like, how can I not? I was like, how can I not be angry? Like the I have to get this right, like I have to get it perfect, you know. I was like, there's so much on the line if I don't get it perfect. And um, you know, I've said some other words, and um the one thing that um when I first came into church that God like really helped me get rid of was like cursing. I was I was a cursor, like I curse like every other word was a curse word. And then when I left, um it came back, and um, you know, in my anger, in my anger, I do fall short of my tongue sometimes, and and uh it comes out and I was talking, I was being real with God, but you know, my tongue I was I was I was cussing, and it was just a couple days ago, and I was just like, I was like, how can I? I was in this Airbnb, just this Airbnb by myself that the orchestra was uh placing me in. And I was like, I can't do it. Like, how can I like I was just so physically angry? I was like, everything's not working, and I was like, and I was like, I finally calmed down, and you know, I'm like crazy guys, crazy guy yelling in the Airbnb and talking. I was like, God, how can I not be angry? How can I not be angry at myself? Like this is this is my profession, I'm falling apart in it, you know. I was like, how can I not be angry? And you know, I just I just like so frustrated, and then I started, I I just started just reciting. I was like, you know, the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want, and you know, whatever he tells me to do, I'm gonna do it, and I'm gonna live for God. And he gave me power to become the son, become the sons of God, and I'm gonna do it, and I'm gonna try I'm gonna be better. And I was just like, I'm gonna trust him. And I'll tell you, that audition, I I wish I could say, like, I prayed to God, I was I was the the less nervous I've ever been at all in an audition. I was just listening to worship music, kind of I already warmed up. I he woke me up at four at 5 30 in the morning. I literally only had like four hours of sleep, and I had to get up and I had to build my bass out of the crate. And I just had the concert last the the night before, and uh I was just tired. I was like, come on, I was like, we got to do it, and started working through it, and everything was good. But man, when I went into the audition the first round, it was terrible. I mean, I like I was missing notes I've never missed before, and things happened that never happened before. I was just like, I was like, Well, it's all up to you, God. I was like, My hands didn't do anything, my hands failed me, and my mind and my hands failed me. So, and I asked God, I was like, I was like, guide my fingers, and I was like, Well, you know, I was like, well, okay. And and then all of a sudden they come back and uh I was candidate three, it was a blind audition. And uh they said, Okay, we want to hear candidates two and three. And I was like, Oh, and I was like, okay, and I was like, I don't have to do the solo this time, so I can I can do a lot better. And went up and then they deliberated for about an hour, and then they are they came in and said that uh they wanted to offer me the position, and I was set, I was in total shock, total shock. And God reminded me, like, because Milwaukee was a no-hire. They had 90, they had 90 bases showed up, only 10 made it to the the semifinals, and they they had three that made it to the finals, and they did decided not to hire anybody. And you know, could could have I gotten that job? It's probably gonna be open next year, but it but it was one of those things to where God reminded me, he's like, he's like, I told you I'm the one that's gonna give you the work and the gigs.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:17

You just have to show up and do your part, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:20

And and I was like, okay, you know, and when when we when you're talking about like, you know, um how I feel I I go all in and I see stuff and I and I see kind of the the significance of things. I remember I was I was uh skydiving and I was in church and uh I I went and did my first skydiving out of Taft, right? Great place if you want to go skydiving. I got to 13,000 feet and I couldn't see the roads, right? Like because we're in the mountains, but once you get past, once you get past about 10,000, 11,000 feet, the mirage covers the roads. You can't see the roads or the houses at that. But you just see you just see the the the you know the mountain area and the and the desert area. And I remember God God spoke to me, he's like, if you could see your problems like that, there'd be nothing nothing would affect you. If you saw the pro if you saw your problems as I see your problems, like at this height, you I don't even see a problem.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:16

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:16

You know, and if you just come to me, and then it it's not until you hit about 5,000 feet that's when you start seeing cars on the road. You see the roads around 7,000, but once you get about 5,000 to 4,000, you start seeing the cars on the road again. And it's like your problems, your problems are so minuscule to me that um, you know, it was just it was just so profound that it was like your problems are so small to me, but I want you to bring me the your problems.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:45

And I want you to trust me with them. And I want you to see up here, they're not a big deal.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:50

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:51

You owe, you owe this much in student loans, you owe this much for hospital bills, whatever. They don't mean a thing, 13,000 feet up in the sky. And I was like, I was like, okay, you know, and he reminded me that's comforting. Yeah, he reminded me that when we were when I was flying in today at Fresno because we were at 17,000 feet, and all I saw, and I saw how straight, you know, the fields were and how like, and then he reminded me of that. He's like, you know, all the problems that you're facing, like they're they're nothing to me. They're they're everything when you bring them to me, but you know, they're they're nothing that I can't handle.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:25

Yeah.

Undergrad Pressure And Falling Back

SPEAKER_01 1:48:26

And um sorry about that, but it's sort of the tangent. But basically, I went um I went to ULP, transfer 2018. Now, this is where my problems started happening, was that I was completely shocked about the level, the caliber of player, even though I was the associate principal, I was the second, the second in the the studio per se, um in level and talent and stuff like that. I was I was so far behind. I didn't play a real symphony until I until I went to uh undergrad. When I went to undergrad. And just the level, the caliber, I was like, how am I going to do this? Like I I am so far behind. Like I got I for I got Joe here that's been playing cello since he was three, you know, and I I I didn't get I didn't get a I didn't start taking bass seriously until I was 21.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:23

Yeah, at COS.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:24

Yeah, at COS. And of all But your natural talent.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:28

Do you see that now?

SPEAKER_01 1:49:29

Yeah, absolutely. It was natural talent.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:30

And and was beating yourself up common for you?

SPEAKER_01 1:49:34

Absolutely, positively, every single day.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:37

And so Antonio, do you know much about intrusive thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 1:49:42

I have them sometimes, yeah. But the the clinical definition of but uh I'm not familiar with the you know with clinical definition of intrusive thoughts.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:52

Well, I mean you know, basically uh there's there's lots of different ways that they come to people, but it It is often the voice of the accuser, which we know I totally believe intrusive thoughts come from the enemy. But um do you feel like when you look back at your life that intrusive thoughts were a big part of because I could just hear the enemy speaking to you about how no one loves you and how you're not good and and um because you had like that sensitivity level is like I said, a double-edged sword. Yes. But then the enemy definitely bogards that and and uses it against us. So are you better at that now, not listening to his voice?

SPEAKER_01 1:50:46

Do you recognize that when I I will be very vulnerable in that I'm slightly better. Slightly better.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:54

Can you recognize it though when when that voice is speaking?

SPEAKER_01 1:50:58

Yes. And um it's difficult for me because when I was in undergrad, I would explode in the practice room. Like I was a crazy guy yelling, screaming because I I just couldn't get it right.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:10

Well, yeah, you beat yourself up a lot. Yeah, like that perfectionistic which I have a million questions about that, but I we won't have time. But um Yeah, because I think, you know, like what you said, God is God is the difference maker. Your talent came from him, it abides in him. Absolutely and um I think there's a levels of excellence that we pursue.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:39

But there's a there's a very fine line of that and perfectionism where we now then beat ourselves up and shame ourselves for what is not perfect, because I think perfect is, as you said, a mirage. It's an illusion.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:55

You just described you just described everything. Yep, exactly that. And um I I basically when I was in undergrad, it it was like I would our rehearsals were uh Tuesday, Thursday for orchestra. I would always leave in tears. Like I would always leave the rehearsal in tears because it's just like I I couldn't get certain things together. Yeah, I felt inadequate, you know, and and you know, that was when everything really kicked in the gear for me, and and I I fell back into uh I fell back into pornography and stuff like that. And it and it didn't help that I didn't really have a church to go to. I was I had no money.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:39

And you didn't go to Christian Life Center when you were in Stockton?

SPEAKER_01 1:52:42

No, I went to Central Vita. Oh, okay. And um they they were great. I I felt I loved going to the church, but I I felt like a burning, a burden to them. They couldn't, I couldn't, you know, it went I was so used to I was so used to the uh I was so blessed at Pentecost Lighthouse that you know we didn't start we didn't always start service on time and that people were more willing to leave, you know, to come pick uh pick up somebody, you know. Like it if it's seven o'clock, you know, like if somebody calls, like somebody's gonna come pick me up or whatever. I that was not what I experienced in up north. And up north it's way different. It's like everything is scheduled. Um, I had to schedule it ahead of time.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:32

And and I would imagine that's not that's not how you're wired too much. Creative types generally are not scheduled types. Nope. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:42

So scheduling and terrible at organizing.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:45

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's your creative brain.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:48

Right. And and uh, you know, I I had really I really felt bad because I couldn't, I you know, I didn't know these people. Like I I didn't know these people, and I had to ask them for rides. I uh like I was I didn't I don't have a driver's license, I don't drive.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:07

Is that because of your eyes? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:09

I I could, but I just I just never dangerous. It's dangerous. I I just I felt I in all honesty, I felt kind of scared to drive. You know, I on a motorcycle on a bicycle, I'm completely like I'm at home. Yeah, but uh driving a car, it was like I felt like a cocoon, like I was in a coffin.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:27

And um I felt really bad. Like I couldn't, I I wasn't making any money. Like, yes, I had a scholarship, but I wasn't making any money and I couldn't pay anybody. And and on Wednesday nights, Wednesday nights were were my hump, were like the Mount Everest for me. I was going from like 8 30 in the morning to 7 o'clock at night nonstop, maybe with an hour lunch in between. And so like when we were done at seven, I couldn't call anybody to I couldn't call anybody come pick me up. They weren't gonna answer the phone. Yeah, they weren't gonna they weren't they weren't gonna drive 15 minutes to school to to pick me up and then drive another 15 minutes back and then the service is over.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:08

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:09

And and then uh I did go to Pastor Bishop's church in Lodi for a little bit, but that was even farther away.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:17

It is, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:18

I was like, that was even farther away. And I I felt just I felt really bad. I felt out of place. I felt really bad. They want to take me to, you know, to lunch and dinner. I felt so bad because I had no money.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:31

I had no money, and then I had to practice and and you know, I was I was struggling. I was I was struggling and and like uh you know at this point in my life again too, I had no I had no romantic relationships or anything like that. I was alone and I was alone again, and I didn't have base to play at church.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:53

I had you know I had to No place to fit again.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:56

I had no place to fit. And then when I came, when I would come back, uh some some of the brothers and sisters in the church didn't even know where I went.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:05

Like they would ask me, like, where have you been? And I was like, Why didn't you just call me?

SPEAKER_05 1:56:09

You mean when you came back to Lighthouse?

SPEAKER_01 1:56:11

Yeah, Lighthouse, like when I was back for whatever reason, you know, and and I was like, Why don't you just call me? Like I you have my number, you have my parents' number. You I think times have just changed.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:22

People don't I am guilty. I am maybe a horrible friend um in my actions because I'm not a very I'm not a very pick up the phone. Well, I'm not actually a pick up the phone calling a person, you know, and it's one of the questions on the personality test is you know, I d I don't really like to talk on the phone.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:47

I I you know I will pick up the phone. That that's been me.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:51

And there, yeah, people do, because I think when you know that it it ma if it matters to you, then you know that it would matter to somebody else. And I I mean I just I get convicted when I talk to people like there's so much more that I need to be able to get better at when it comes to human relationships. Um I have all my own reasons and all my own stuff from life's ups and downs. But um so it's really then a miracle that you found your wife.

COVID Drift And Questions For God

SPEAKER_01 1:57:28

Yeah, so um so so just just going back a little bit, so COVID COVID happened and uh I spent a year and a half at home on the computer. And I wasn't really in church at this time. I would pr s spor sporadically show up. Um I tried I didn't know how to ask for help really. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:54

And that makes me so sad because I wonder how many people are in your position that don't know how to do that. I I wonder I wonder how many people sit there and just don't know how to talk to other people. Right. You know, and um yeah, that makes me so sad.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:20

Yeah, and because you know at that time my my sister had fallen away uh from the Davis church. Um uh and you know, my parents my parents weren't really going, you know, they they weren't really going. My mot my uh I I will leave that to I would leave that to my to my mom uh to tell her story. But uh basically um you know I just I'd I would show up sporadically, you know, and and I I still I still would praise and worship, you know. Like speaking in tongues and praising worship is not uh not a difficult thing for me. Yeah it's not like I can I will speak in tongues like that, no, like no problem. I I have no issues doing like some people they uh it has to build up for them. It doesn't for me. It yeah I've asked God, I go, I I've um one sermon that has changed my life is uh Gerald Jeffers, uh Dr. Jeffers uh uh Condemnation Interferes with Intimacy when he was at Because of the Times 2005. And um that really it does that really changed my outlook. And I was so young when I saw that in this young in church and spirit when I saw that, and I just started talking to God about everything, you know, and and I wanted to learn his voice. I was like, you know, I want him because I was like, I knew I'm I'm getting into a profession that's not, you know, it's not a money-making profession, you know. I'm not working for a bank or anything like that, or lawyer, doctor, lawyer, or any of that. And I was like, I'm gonna need you, God. I was like, I'm gonna need you because there's gonna be times where it's like I don't even know uh that like how I'm gonna get through that month, you know, and and so I was just like, I'm just gonna learn your voice. I'd like I would like to know your voice as much as Dr. Jeffers does. And I met him once and I I've he he's a real deal. And um I just kept, you know, I kept pushing, but then you know, when I started to fall away from the church, I was like, I I I kept, I was like, I would always talk, I always talk to God, I'm always real with him, and I was just like, why? Like I I first thing, you know, my excuse was basically like I want to see miracles, signs, and wonders. Like, why why is it when we pray for people in wheelchairs, they just don't get out, you know? And I just started questioning that, you know. But the real reason was like the real reason was it was just like I I just felt alone and and it just wasn't there. It wasn't there for me, you know.

SPEAKER_05 2:00:49

Was there contentment when you found the Lord, when you got the Holy Ghost, when you when you found your connection to him? Did the shift? I mean, I think the aloneness piece Well, I have theories, but but um I sometimes think that that is a driver that the Lord uses to propel us forward. Yes. But at the same time, was there comfort knowing that you had him in the midst of that loneliness?

SPEAKER_01 2:01:29

Um In the beginning, yes. Before I went before I went to school. Now God doesn't give you God never gave me anything that I could not handle.

SPEAKER_05 2:01:47

It just played on every single insecurity.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:50

It played on everything. And and um, you know, I'm alone in the school, there's no other apostolics. Uh some apostolics look down on me for my profession, you know, to preach against worldly music and all that. And here here I am in the crowd, you know, like you know, I was like, well, uh I've I I've been told to do this.

SPEAKER_05 2:02:14

By your pastor. Yeah. So you had a blessing, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:18

And I I you know, it's like I don't know how to square I don't know how to square this circle. Right. And I don't know how to fit in to that, you know. It's like I like I go to Chick-fil-A, it's a Wednesday night, you know, uh with the Shivers Church. I I I felt so out of place with all the CLC kids. It was it was it would like it was tear inducing to me. Yeah, like I felt so out of place with them because it was just they were they were just in a different world and and they and I didn't fit in with how the you know apostolic teenagers acted. Uh especially at college, you know. It's like I the you know, it's like I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 2:03:06

Well Antonio, you weren't gonna fit in anyways because you're God created you, I think very, very special. I think it's yet to be seen. Yes what what He has for you, but um everything about you is by design. And I I think that loneliness comes. Um that was kind of my story. That was always the reason I left. Um but I think the Lord is just always trying you to draw you deeper because he has much to reveal and you have ears to hear him, right? And there's things I think he wants to teach you and show you and ultimately find your place in him, you know, and very fortunate that he gave you a wife to love on this earth because we need that.

Meeting Carla And Long Distance Love

SPEAKER_01 2:04:13

Absolutely, yeah. And uh so I come back, it's COVID, right? Uh COVID, COVID ends, and um I didn't play the bass for like eight months because I I had a falling out with my school, bad situation there that I was in that I was put in, and I hated school. Like I was like, get me out of here. I just want to do my senior recital. I didn't I didn't even post the picture that I was doing the senior recital until the day of the recital, like three hours before. Like I was like, I I'm here in this empty, this empty uh space that I have to play in. And I was like, I just want to be done with it. Didn't think I was gonna come back to music, and I was working at I was working at Save Mart and uh loved the job. Like I I loved it way more than playing bass because I was I was in I was in public, I was pushing heavy crit heavy things and dealing with people like 2,000 plus people a day, you know, just grocery shopping, having a good time. And then about eight months in, I started playing the bass again, and then I started playing it, and then I was like, you know what, I want to go into music therapy because oh uh UOP has the oldest uh music therapy program. So I was I was looking at it. I went back to COS, did some uh uh pre-rex, uh yeah, some pre-rex, pre uh pre-rex, hoping that they would transfer over and um wanted to get into psychology, but then it was about halfway through my time there again that I was like, I really want to go back into performance. Like I was doing work and stuff like that, and then I got an email from Lohenheim, from Dr. Lohenheim. I uh applied to uh the summer festival in Fresno called Fusa, and I didn't finish the application because I missed the dead the March 15th deadline. Well, he sent me an email about a month later. He was like, Hey, I see that uh you you um I see that you uh applied but didn't finish. And I was like, Yeah, I I it I just missed the the deadline. He goes, send in a tape. So I was like, okay, give me a week because I have to re I haven't learned the rep. And it was Mahler Symphony 5, number five that we were playing. Very famous symphony. It's hard too. Oh my god. I was so out of shape for playing that type of stuff. And I um I got in, and that was the first time I met my wife there, uh Carla. And she was a cellist, she's from Mexico originally, she was doing her masters, and um I just saw her and I was like, I was like, um, I was like, wow, she's beautiful, but she probably has a boyfriend. Like, you know, girl like that, she has she has somebody, you know, at least an orbiter, an orbiter or you know, some guy. Yeah, and nope. Uh basically I I she had a cart with she was the librarian, so she had all the music plus her instrument plus her bag and all that. I had my backpack with the bass with a stool, like all in my hand. And I was like, I just commented, you know, saying, like, man, I wish I had a cart to put all this stuff. And that was the last time we spoke for a year. And then um uh I got into Fresno State. They tried to get me in for the fall, but they they couldn't enroll me. So I basically just played and all the ensembles showed up there, and then they enrolled me officially in the spring. And then in the spring, I became the youth orchestra coach. So I wasn't in church really at this time. Uh, youth orchestras of Fresno, the rehearsals are on Sundays, uh, starting at one, going till about uh nine. So I did all three groups coaching.

SPEAKER_05 2:07:48

We got it.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:50

And um what was that?

SPEAKER_05 2:07:52

I was just gonna say we we gotta oh okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:55

We gotta we gotta finish up. But basically, you know, I met my wife there, and um we uh we never talked. Like we never talked at all. And um I wasn't I wasn't like pushing anything because I was I was at that mindset uh at that time I was like I'm not getting in any relationship when I'm in uh work, work related relationship. Then all of a sudden, like uh right before her senior, right before her master's recital, I started seeing her like constantly. I was like, like, what the heck? And then she asked me for help and to for dress rehearsal, so I helped her, and then we went to lunch. Uh basically I was like, okay, I gotta go back to go practice, right? And then she's like, Oh, you don't want to have lunch? And I was like, Oh, you want to go have lunch? I was like, okay. And then went, had lunch, and uh I paid for it, and you know, she thanked me for helping her and stuff like that. And then her senior was her master's recital was a couple of days after that. And then the first person that she hugged was me. I I she picked me out in the whole crowd and she ran up to me and hugged me. Oh, and then uh I was like, Well, uh, let's you know, let's go to Cheesecake Factory. We weren't able to do that. And um, it was just me and like two other of her friends, and um, I was in Fresno until like 12 o'clock in the morning, and uh she she was she had me in her car, like she was driving me around. And then uh I'd I asked her um basically I waited for the Uber to pick me up, take me back to Vyselia, and um I'd uh I asked her, I go, hey, let's let's have a real date next time. And she was like, Yeah, I would like that. And so I took her to picnic and uh she is and uh that was it. And um we we started going out and then she graduated and was going to OU in Oklahoma, and she left. And she thought she thought we were gonna end it, you know, and she was so distraught, you know, and it was July, she's about ready to leave. And then I told her, I told her I was like, let's we have the technology, let's let's try long distance. Starting a new job as an orchestra director for Mill School High School for uh Valley Oak and Golden West. And um I had money so I could go out and go see her. So I flew out a couple times uh on holidays to go see her. And then uh I didn't really propose to her. I took her ring shopping on Thanksgiving before Thanksgiving because I didn't know what she liked. Like I didn't I didn't want to, you know, because all the sales associates are basically like, here's a$7,000 engagement ring. I was like, Do I look like I have seven thousand dollars? And um we were there for like three and a half hours, and I was just watching her, you know, as she's going through all the shops and the in this giant malls in Oklahoma. It's all like the malls are the big thing in Oklahoma. We go back and forth. The first ring that we saw that was the one uh she really, really liked these two rings, but the first ring that she saw was the one, and I I I cut her off because she just we went back and forth like three or four times to the store to see it, and I was like, You like that ring? Let's go with it. And um it I thought it was just gonna be a you know, like a uh Thanksgiving Black Friday Christmas gift, something like that. And then we were on the car, we were in the car back. I was I was with her, and um, I was staying with her, and she was and uh she asked me if this was an engagement ring. And I just basically I looked, I was in the passenger seat, I looked at her, I was like, You want it to be? And then that was it. So then we were getting married, and then uh I went to Mexico to go see her family, and then we uh and then we came back, saw the parents, and then um and then uh June twenty ninth came around, June twenty ninth, twenty twenty four, got married in church, Pastor Jeremy officiated the wedding, and then uh I had not really come back to church yet. Um I was that's what I want to get to because ran out of time.

SPEAKER_05 2:12:00

So I when w when I mean by the way, c congratulations. I think I think I think that was a miracle not a miracle, but in your history and and what you felt and what you went through and how easily that seemed to have come. Absolutely.

Promises, Visions, And Coming Back

SPEAKER_01 2:12:19

Right. And you know, she's not in church, um, but she's the only woman I've ever been with. Yeah. And and um she'll follow you, Antonio. And you know, speaking of that, um, just real quickly, uh, I was in service last Sunday and Pastor Borders was preaching, you know, nothing's impossible with God. It was one of those messages. Now, this is why I would love it if churches did more testimony services, because I did not know this about Pastor Borders, but Pastor Borders was a missionary to New Zealand. Him and his wife were. He had contracted a disease in in New Zealand that made them infertile. They couldn't have kids.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:59

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:00

And so the doctor told him, like, you can't have kids. Wow. Um, this is this is not gonna work. So he heard a he heard a preacher, an old school preacher, he was he was kind of from the brother Kilgore's uh uh uh cohort, you know. Yeah, heard a preacher um talk about how you know he needed an RV because he was traveling a bunch. So he in faith would practice driving his little sedan like he was driving an RV, like taking wide turns and taking a bunch of spaces, you know, like because he was like, I'm gonna get an RV. Somebody gave him an RV. Now, Pastor Borders was sitting in the car and he was like, if God can do that to an RV, he he looked to Sister Borders and was like, if God can do that to him for an RV, he can do that for us to have a a child. Yeah. And all and he Sister Borders immediately started rocking, rocking the baby. And then even him, he he he went under under uh went under the chin like it was like goochie goo. And then two years they had a son. Wow, and then they had another, they had another one.

SPEAKER_05 2:14:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:10

When he was saying that, um I saw I saw a picture in my head, and I just saw it was this white wall, it was this white wall with dark gray carpet, and uh I saw myself and I saw a bunch of people around me, and a bunch, I mean like small children too. And I saw a bunch of people around me, and uh God told me he's like, I haven't forgotten, I haven't forgotten the promises, the things that you prayed about. And I saw my family and my the family that I would have and that I've always wanted. Yeah, he's gone in that in the picture. I star I cried so much.

SPEAKER_05 2:14:54

This was just last weekend.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:55

This was just last week. And wow, I was like, God has been with you through it all. Yeah, and and you know, I called Pastor Borders when we moved, and I was like, hey, you know, I'm backslidden.

SPEAKER_05 2:15:05

Um I I that's how I'm you weren't, but you were, I know what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:10

Exactly. And I was like, I'm not in church, but you know, I would love to, you know, I I I prayed and this was this was the church that uh I prayed that uh God led me to and um I'd love to have lunch with you. And they and he him and Sister Borders met went, they met us and they met us where we were at, you know, they talked to us about music and everything. And and uh, you know, there were there were there was a dry spell where I didn't go to church, you know, and I struggled with so much. And and and then I started going and going again and and you know, cleaning up and getting more clean shaven and everything, and and started cleaning up and getting my life to you know back together, and and you know, God was just always there and always pulling me closer and you know just teaching you who he is. Absolutely. And I remember a long time ago, like I uh like he told me, like, you're gonna be alone and you know you're going places that most people will will not be able to go or handle where you're going to go.

SPEAKER_02 2:16:17

I believe that, Antonio.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:18

Yeah, and he was just like, You you need to be strong. It and he's been pushing me. He's like, every morning I want you to read Joshua 1 through 9. And I started studying that, you know, and and just being like, okay, what you know, what does he mean by be strong and of a good courage? Right. He's tell, you know, John like Moses just died and he's now tasked to take over, you know, he's now tasked to go into the Jordan, go to war. And I'm like, what do you mean by be like be strong and of a good courage? Like strong is like like what like what? What does that mean? You know, why what do you mean? Uh why did they choose that r word? You know, when translating it. And you know, looking up strong, you know, it it means to be strict and it means it's disciplined, to be disciplined. And and I was like, oh that's that's the next thing because I've been you know, I've been kind I haven't been as disciplined as I should be.

SPEAKER_02 2:17:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:13

And you know, God has been with me, and God is with anybody, uh anybody that calls, anybody that calls on Jesus, He'll be there. And and doesn't matter if you're not of a UPC church or whatever, he will meet you where you're at, and he will be undeniable like with you. You will not you there will be no doubt in your mind that he would be there. And God has just been so great and so wonderful, and I I you know I I thank him every day. And uh it every time I think of what he's done for me, I just I just can't help but to cry. Like I'm on the plane sometimes and song just hits me, and I like a song just hits me. I just can't, I I just I just can't, you know, help but to cry and and just to thank God that you know he didn't leave me. Yeah, he didn't leave me where I was at, he didn't forget, even though I cursed God, I cursed him. Like there were times and there were times in underground where I was like, if you God, I hate you. Like you just left me here, you know, and I was just being real. This is what I felt, you know, and you know, feelings, whatever. But it was just like I was I was angry because I I felt left behind. I I felt like the the lost coin, the parable the lost coin in the church, and that I was like nobody, nobody knew, like nobody was there but God. Yeah, God was there, right? And that's all that matters. And he was there, you know, and he just he brought me back. And I knew I would come back, but I I hope that I didn't have to die to come back. But but it was one of those things where it was like I was like, God, I you know, I'm I feel so bad after you know, uh like cursing at cursing uh cursing God and uh cussing at God and just kind of like um uh you know, just like you know, will you ever will we'll you know if I if I if I am never forgiven, I'm gonna keep following you. And you know, if I if I make my life better because of that and I get to the gates and you you say I never knew you, it's like okay, well at least you know that what I did was unforgivable, that's fine. At least I was able to be a light for somebody.

SPEAKER_05 2:19:35

You know that's not true though, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:37

Yeah, well that's what I thought at the time.

SPEAKER_05 2:19:39

At the time, yeah, yeah.

Why Testimonies Build Real Faith

SPEAKER_01 2:19:40

And and and you know, it was just like now it's like, let's go, let's do it. You know, like God, you you God can do anything, you know. If if if He can bring me back, you know, and bring He can do anything. Yeah it's incredible. So I appreciate I appreciate you and your platform. And I I remember when I was out of church and I saw it, and I saw the podcast for the first time, and I was like, hey, I know all those people. Yeah, and then I was just like, I was sitting there, I was like, man, this is why we need more testimony services because God, you know, God does wonderful things for people, and and it it's sad that you know I I don't get to hear it sometimes, especially the old timers, you know, what God has done for them. And you know, it it builds my faith when I hear what what the old timers what they went through.

SPEAKER_05 2:20:30

So well, Antonio, I could talk to you for hours. I'm very intrigued. Um both, you know, from a Christian, but but also my psychology brain is just I love um how you're wired, what God is doing in you. I mean, there's so many elements to who you are that is very uh unique and special that God is going to use and and it'll be exciting to watch it unfold, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:03

Absolutely. I I I completely understand. I can go for hours.

SPEAKER_05 2:21:07

But um I can too. I I'm a talker, but anyways, I I love your um intensity and your the pureness. Like I just keep coming back to that word. I don't say that too often about a lot of people. And and I don't mean like pureness is that it's it's just raw. The uh to the degree in which you live it, you feel it, you know, words, how how deep the meaning of words are to you. Um like it's uh everything means something. And you I I doubt that you take very many things for granted if if if you take anything for granted, that so much intentionality about you. And um I hope that you never never change that. I hope so. You know, and if you're not someone that journals, uh, because you're probably not because you're a creative. I do, I do. Good, good.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:15

I do sometimes I I used to a lot.

SPEAKER_05 2:22:18

I would encourage you to especially, especially um journal everything that God shows you and visions and everything He tells you and date them. Yes. Um I heard years ago, I've done this since I can remember, but I heard someone years ago talking about stewarding the words that God gives us. And um, but I think that there can be much that we can learn about ourselves and we can learn about the Lord and we can learn about process if we just would journal our life. And you know, I've said this before, at the end of every year I go back and I read my journal for the year. And sometimes when I'm discouraged, because we get discouraged, yes, I'll just go back and read what I've written up to this point, you know, because every day the Lord is speaking if if we just are listening, you know. So as as intentional as you are and and as deep as everything uh means to you, um your journals will be a blessing to you, but to others who love you in your future. I'll do that. If you if you start writing, because I think your life is just beginning in many ways. And um and I think that that place is just reserved for God. Your your wife fills the place on earth for you to have purpose and belonging, but she will never fill the place that only God can fill. Absolutely. And with someone like you, that's going to be even in a great in a greater capacity. So I love I am so happy that I got to talk with you. Me too. Um, because I saw you at church, I never knew you. And the one thing about this podcast, I've said it before, it's given me a chance to get to know these people that I have gone to church with that I have seen that have been acquaintances, but we don't really know a person until we really get to hear their heart and get to hear their story, and then we just get a glimpse. But it does take us deeper into who they are as people. And I'm grateful that um you never took your life, and I'm grateful that you had capacity to cry, and I'm grateful that um you have a resilience about you, you know. Um many wonderful things that God has gifted you in, but I I'm grateful that you made it to this point, Antonio.

SPEAKER_01 2:25:06

I and you know, I I thank God every day. And um I wish I I I wish we had more time. I I always like to give context to things and but God has done so much for me, even even the even the times like uh when I was not living for God, you know, he he took me. He doesn't leave us. Yeah, he doesn't leave us. He took me to Europe, he took me to Vienna, I played in the greatest concert hall in the world. Um, he's kept me, he's kept me alive. And you know, well, those things are not by accident.

SPEAKER_05 2:25:37

I mean, if you played in the greatest concert hall in the world, that's just a glimpse of where he will take you.

SPEAKER_01 2:25:44

And you know and I want to be a light for those people, you know.

Advice To The Backslider

SPEAKER_05 2:25:47

Well, I was gonna say, who's gonna reach those people if not us? Like, I believe we're supposed to be in the marketplace. I believe we're supposed to we can be in the world and not of the world. We can play beautiful music and do beautiful art and create beautiful things and still be holy. Absolutely. Holiness is his, you know, and and he and that's what we endeavor to do. But I hope that you you know, it's a wonderful compliment that Pastor McPhail, Bishop McPhail, sent you out to do music. He believed that that was a God-given gift, and I think I hope that you see that, right? And in in your lack of perfection, he's still giving you so much favor, and I bet I bet you're pretty darn near perfect because I can tell by how you're wired. Like you're probably you're just probably your biggest critic, but you you've you've gotta let that go. Exactly. Because the Lord did not make a mistake. And and you you've gotta let that go and and offer your best. Because your best is not gonna be perfect. But if you can just offer your best, he takes that, he accepts that, and he makes it perfect. So um, yes, I I didn't used to be so conscientious of time, but I'll explain afterwards why I am now. But um so Antonio, I always fin finish with two questions. So um make it brief because we could talk longer. I know, I know.

SPEAKER_01 2:27:35

What do you what will you what do you want to say to the backslider who's drifted the first the first thing that Jesus uh one one thing that God showed me the other day was in the Gospel of John. And the first thing that Jesus says is come, come and see. For for you that for for the backslider that needs to that feels like they want to come back, but they don't know how and they don't know where, and they don't know how I would say I would say to you is just come, come and see. Meaning just come to him in prayer and just talk to him. Because that's all that God wants. God God wants God wants many things, but the one thing that he wants is to hear our voice talking to him and communion and communion, and he was just he just wants you to commune with him. He came to see Adam and Eve in the cool of the day, all every single day. And he wants us there. Doesn't matter if it if it's scheduled, I it it it doesn't have to be scheduled, doesn't need to be on your knees in the closet. You could be driving, you could be on the plane, you could be in the bus. Say, Jesus, I you just just say, Jesus, I I want to come back and I want to know you, and he'll be there. Yeah, he'll be there.

SPEAKER_05 2:29:06

Well, Antonio, um, I look forward to seeing what God has for you. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:11

Please call call me anytime.

SPEAKER_05 2:29:13

Yeah, I'm so um, I'm so glad to know you, to be able to have this conversation with you. Absolutely. It's a blessing. It's exciting, actually. I'm I'm very um um what's the word? Um excited, I guess is the word. I'm just excited. I love to meet people like you that you know it there's just a very specialness about you that God has marked for himself.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:44

I appreciate that. Yeah, I appreciate that. Sometimes I'd I sometimes I I would never would feel that way, but I know God has a plan.

SPEAKER_05 2:29:51

Because I think the enemy also knows that, and so he sets out to destroy us. But he does, he does absolutely, absolutely have a plan. He does for everybody, but you know, you just you just meet people that have a little bit something different that I feel like God just especially marks for greater, you know. Um I heard I heard a preacher that helped me very much in my time of brokenness say um that as far down as you go in despair is as high as you're gonna go in in the Lord. Right. And so if if those foundations have been dug deep, it is to withstand the skyscraper that is going to be built on top of that. Absolutely. And so there's no there's no mistakes in what you have suffered. God is going to multiply it back.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:52

Absolutely. I in Jesus' name. In Jesus' name.

SPEAKER_05 2:30:56

All right. Well, thank you for flying in to be on my podcast. I feel so honored and I'm excited to see I am honored see you at church on Wednesday and be able to have you here for a little bit. Yeah. Absolutely. God bless you, Antonio.

SPEAKER_01 2:31:10

And I I can't wait to I can't wait to see this grow and to see everybody grow.

Thanks, Support, And Closing

SPEAKER_05 2:31:16

Thank you. Yes. And for everybody watching, thank you for tuning in. Um, I know that it really matters uh to our guests, and it certainly really matters to me. So um thank you all who support the channel, who subscribe, who share, who like, who've donated. It really, really helps. And um we are seeing backsliders come home. We really, really are. We're we're hearing the testimonies, we're we're seeing it, you know. Um, there's many who have come back who are not ready yet to come on the podcast because it's still so very fresh for them. Right. But but God is doing work in in the hearts and lives of backsliders. So um we'll see you guys again. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 2:32:04

We are so glad you joined us. If you have a story of redemption or have worn the label of a backslider, we would love to hear from you. If you'd like to support our ministry, your donation will be tax deductible. Visit our website at theredeemedbackslider.org. We hope you will tune in for our next episode.