Two Miracles-One God: Ashley Zachary #TRB Episode 51

A mother’s prayer can sound fearless on the outside and still be full of questions in the quiet. Kathy Chastain sits down with Ashley Zachary, a newer convert with a raw, hope-filled testimony about coming out of a lesbian lifestyle, learning the Bible for herself, and discovering the power of the Holy Ghost in a way that turns “God is real” into lived experience.

Ashley shares how her daughter Autumn’s 1p36 deletion syndrome diagnosis shattered expectations and triggered real grief, anger, and spiritual confusion. We talk about what it feels like to pray for healing, attend healing services, do “all the right things,” and still walk out without the instant miracle you hoped for. Along the way, Ashley explains the turning points that kept her from closing her heart: a God-given dream, wise counsel, and learning that trusting God is sometimes “one step at a time,” not a sudden burst of certainty.

Transcript

Welcome And Why Backsliders Matter

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider. With your host, Kathy Chastain, Christian-based psychotherapist and redeemed backslider. This podcast is dedicated to those who have wandered but are ready to return to the life-changing power of grace and the freedom found in Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Hi, I'm Kathy Chastain. I'm a Christian-based psychotherapist and redeemed backslider. I wanted to take a moment and ask if you wouldn't mind liking and subscribing to this channel. In episode 50, I interviewed Reverend Michael Torres. And in that episode, Brother Torres talked about how many backsliders that we actually have. And he said there are four to five times more backsliders than there are saints sitting on the pew. That's a lot of people that we need to reach. And I can't do it alone. I really need your help. And every time you like our videos or you subscribe or you share them, it allows the video to be messaged to even more people. And if you are so inclined, if you would want to support our ministry, any donation is tax deductible, and you can make any donation amount on our website at theredeanebackslider.org.

Meet Ashley And The Miracle Story

SPEAKER_01 1:29

So with that, I would like to introduce my guest today, Ashley Zachary. She is a fairly new convert. Um, I'm not sure how many years we'll talk about that, but I'm having her on the episode today because she has a miraculous story of healing of her daughter. And I know that there's many of us in the body of Christ who pray for healing, who pray for miracles, and sometimes we don't get to see those manifest, and other times we do. But Ashley's story is of particular um inspiration because, in her case, in the case of her daughter, God really has done an amazing miracle. And so I wanted her to share her testimony today with all of you, and I pray that it would encourage you and build your faith as you deal with the issues going on in your own life. So, welcome to the studio, Ashley.

SPEAKER_05 2:34

Hello.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

I'm glad that you're here. And um, and for everybody at home, I recently heard Ashley's testimony at our ladies' retreat where our churches combined, and so we got a chance to meet a lot of the ladies from the Harvest Center Church. Um, and so you had a table talk, and I was just amazed. And and I have talked about you before on this broadcast about how powerfully you pray for people at the altar. And so um I wanted you to just come on and share um your journey with God and what God has done in your life with you and your daughter.

Reading The Bible And Leaving Sin

SPEAKER_02 3:17

Yeah, so um my journey with God initially began about um oh man, 12 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

So it's been a while.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Yeah, uh I had not been baptized in the Holy Ghost, I had not been actually saved, but uh the journey began by opening the Bible. Um, I was in the world um and I was lost. Um, and I had been living in a uh one-on-one relationship with another female. Oh, okay. Uh-huh. And during this time, um, I was still like smoking marijuana, drinking. Um, I was really lost in the world.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Uh I I And when you say the world, that's a Christian term for us. And there might be people watching that don't understand that kind of language. So by the world, could you just describe a little bit of what that means to you?

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Yeah, well, what it means to me is I was consumed with uh trying to fulfill myself with worldly things. So I was not living for God. Um, I did not know God. I was living for Ashley.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

And I sought things that would try to fill Ashley.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

So I thought very well said, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

And um part of that was love. Yeah. Um, I I come from um a little bit more of a traumatic background uh with childhood, and my childhood was uh uh traumatic to say the least. And so that put me on the journey of searching for love.

SPEAKER_04 5:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

And um, so when I I got into my older years, I would say about 17, I started seeing that the lesbian community was more welcoming. Um and they would accept me for whatever I thought I was, you know. Uh so they they um oh like had open arms is what I'm trying to say. So I I thought, well, maybe, maybe that's the route, you know. So I did go that route for about five years. I was in a relationship, long story short, and um I remember working at a job in Fresno, and at this job, um I had been at a training center, and the assistant manager there I was talking to him about God, and he was a Christian, and he said, Well, Ashley, I'm not supposed to do this, but I have a Bible in my car. Wow, you know, if you won't tell the manager, I'll give it to you. And I was like, Yeah, like I know nothing. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

But you had a hunger for God, it sounds like yeah, we were just chatting.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

He would talk about God, and so I had questions. Yeah, I've always been an open person, a learner, you know. Uh I I just I'm I mean, I'm open, you know. Right. Um, so he would talk about God, and so he's like, I'm gonna give you a Bible. So that is where I yeah, that's where I explain that my my the beginning of my walk with God began because once he gave me the Bible, it changed my life. I began to read the word. I remember dedicating 30 minutes, my lunch period only, to reading the word. Um and the Lord began to speak to me. And I look back now, I'm still learning, God, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

We all are.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

So I look back now and I say, Oh, that was my Exodus. Yeah, he began to work on me and he began to speak to me. Um, and he told me, You need to leave. So I left.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Um the relationship.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Yes, you need to leave the relationship, Ashley. And I'll never forget it. And I told him, you know, God, I I don't know how um to leave because I'm in this relationship. I'm living with this person, I've been with them five years, I have nowhere to go. Um and that was it. Like I forgot about it, kept move, kept it moving, you know. And then um there on after, um, the Lord had transferred me to an office. And I know he did this, God ordained, because she became my friend. And she um she said, Ashley, you know, I would I would talk to her about what I was facing, and I didn't really know where to go, but I know I I knew I knew I had direction from the Lord. And uh she said, Well, I have a room you could rent. And I I immediately thought, wow, the Lord has opened this up, yeah, you know, and all in my own little self was like, okay, you know, so I I remember then leaving the job um and walking out and um putting on Caleb in my car, and there was a story, and the lady said, you know, I didn't know when to tell my kids that their their husband had or their dad had died. Um but we were walking out one day, and immediately the Lord spoke to me and was like, I need to, I need to tell him. And I thought, well, I don't know when I'm supposed to leave. You could do that for me. And this is all like little old me myself. I knew nothing of the Lord. Yeah, just sincere with the Lord. Well, you'll do that for me then, Lord. And I remember sitting that same weekend in in the house next to the person, and this rush came over me. And I knew, I said, Oh, this is it. So I looked over and I was like, Okay, I'm leaving this weekend. Um, and I left, and that's when the journey began with the Lord. Yeah, uh, obviously, it was 10 years of that. It was him changing my music, it was changing.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

One of the first things that changed in me too was music.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Isn't that interesting?

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Yeah, so he he was doing that. I would always listen to Caleb at this point. Um, I still did not know very much about him, but I would read the word, you know, and try. I felt like, you know, for the longest of my life, I didn't have a map of life. Nobody told me how to do life, right? Like, or the identity. Like, I remember like not knowing my identity in the world, right? And trying to find it with people, substance, right, right, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

And I think that encompasses the majority of people who don't who don't know the Lord, and even those that do know the Lord, identity is such a core part of what they're searching for. Yeah, it's it's it it's huge. And if we embrace what the Bible says who we are, like that would be transformative in so many ways in our authority, in our power, in the way we see him, and the way we see ourselves, it would just fix so many things.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Yes, it would.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

But I love that you understood that, Ashley.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

Yeah, yeah. I and that has been a process too, because you know, when you you end up coming to the Lord, I have learned that uh there was a time in my walk where he had to pour that into me because I came with identity issues, they weren't gone yet. Even coming in and getting the Holy Ghost and getting baptized, they were not gone yet.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Right. Um, I mean in your attraction, that that identity or just in yourself apart from sexuality.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

Apart from sexuality, yeah, that was completely gone. When he had me leave and shut that door, that door was shut. I was I looked back and I was like delivered.

SPEAKER_04 10:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Um, but that's not to say, like, when you get into the church, the enemy doesn't try to bring that up.

SPEAKER_04 11:02

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

I I had dealt with a lot of like thoughts of like, these women are not going to accept me. They're going to think I'm like attracted to them. Right. I can't tell this story. Right. Because how gross, you know, they might look at me like I'm this gross individual, but those all lies of the enemy. And the Lord had to expose that for me. Yeah, you know, and teach me that's not the truth. Those are not my people. My people love you, they accept you, you know. I adore you, Ashley, you know. And I remember a period where uh about for about two years, he had called me and told me, like, I want you to go to the church and pray alone. And I was like, But God, I don't really have a way. I don't have a key. And about two months later, the girls on the ladies' thread uh were like, Hey, we have a key in a lockbox outside the church now for those that do cleaning and all that. And I thought, oh my goodness, Lord, you are so good. You make a way, like you really do. You make a way no matter what. If he tells you he's gonna make a way, so I started doing that, and as I did that, now I look back and I'm like, you were teaching me not only the power of prayer in your presence, but you were uprooting so many lies. Um, you were speaking such life into my soul and my spirit that I needed, I needed that intimacy with the Lord where when no one was around uh to retrain me because I was so lost.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Um that's it.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

It is a retraining. And he uh my nose is just so bad. Sorry. It's okay. Um he he taught you, just him, he taught you, and he he taught me, and it's so exciting to see, you know, he really is our our teacher if we will just dialogue with him, yeah. Pray to him, talk to him, and and just let him have that space.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

Yes, yeah, yeah, and and you know, along that journey, I have learned that the Lord like will tell you to do something, you just do it, and you have confidence that no matter what your eyes see, you can trust that you did what he said, and that is it.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

And there's a confidence and a liberty in that that I have found and I love about him. Yeah, you know, and I don't always understand him. Yeah, like a lot of the times I don't understand. And I'm I'm someone that wants to understand him. Yeah, you know. Um, I do seek to understand him. Yes, on such a deeper level, you know. Um, but I think he likes that.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Well, I yes, I think he wants us to know him. Yeah, you know, and and yeah, you have um such simple faith, like you just believe, and you just believed before you actually knew him.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

That's huge.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

I needed I needed a savior.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

I was deep in sin and I needed a savior, yeah, and he became that, and I'm so forever grateful. I sometimes, like when I came to the Lord and I got the Holy Ghost and got baptized, I remember going and reading my word, and I could understand more because it's the living word, but I didn't understand that without the Holy Ghost.

SPEAKER_06 14:11

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

I I couldn't make that connection. And I remember going and reading the word, and it became life to me because he says, like those who hunger and thirst for righteousness shall be filled. And I remember reading this after every time I would go to church, it was like him in the spirit reigning on my mind, and I didn't understand what was going on, right? You know, and I was like, Oh, it's your word is alive. This applies to me right now. Yeah, this is not for you know, in eternity, this is now, right, right, and those things that came to life like blew my mind, even like the um in Luke 7 talks about the uh the debtors and which one would love him more.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

The one who is forgiven the most, and that speaks isn't it so true? Mine too. Yeah, I I think I think that is so spot on. Yeah, yeah, because you do like you when you know what he's done for you and how he has changed us, yes.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Yes, and those songs they sing about uh like about not judging someone's worship because you don't know what he has brought them through. That applies to us so deeply in our core. Yeah, uh, because yeah, you don't know what he's brought me through. So I'm going to worship him unadulterated. I'm gonna give him a David worship.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

I think about that too. I think about that so much, you know. Like I I will all the more be vile to worship him. I think that's what David said to Michael. Yeah, you know, but yeah, I I agree. I feel like, you know, when the enemy comes against us, that's exactly what I think. Oh no, I'm gonna just do it harder and do it more.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

Yes, yeah, yes, he deserves it.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

I love that, and I've loved you since you know, so many of the people from your guys' church. I just I just there's such a I feel such a bond with you guys, even though I don't know you well. I just love everything about who you guys are, how you live, what you stand for, how you um interact with others. Just you know, it it's really wonderful to see the body of Christ like this, you know, in operation and like loving people. Yes, like really sincerely loving people. Yeah, it's a beautiful thing.

Identity, Prayer, And Simple Faith

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Yeah. Um, when you started reading the Bible, where'd you start? Because that question is asked often. Yeah, and um depending on circumstances, I give people different answers, but I'm curious as to where you started.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Not the gospels, yeah. They'll guide you there, but I I started in Proverbs and Psalms.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Okay, I I generally tell people Psalms, yeah, because I think the emotional connection with David and where most people are at when they're coming to the Lord is so relatable. Yeah, and I feel I feel like Psalms too, but that's good to hear. Yeah, I hear most people say start in John.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Yeah, you know in the in the New Testament. That's what everyone recommends too, but nope, I was just this girl opening a Bible. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

And God just does the work.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

He does that. Oh my goodness, does he? I always say, like, if you need like to be delivered, open your Bible and read it. He will deliver you. It's that simple. Yeah, it really is.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Right. Like, yeah, and and I think growing up, church was such a a culture, it wasn't the emphasis on Bible reading, at least the way I grew up, was not you know, emphasized. And that's not a negative thing about any of the way that I grew up. I think we just took it for granted, I would say, probably more. We just took it for granted, and I feel like it's the best kept secret. Yeah. The Bible is just this treasure trove of treasure that if people understood the value that actually existed in there, we would never put it down. Yeah, no, you know, it is alive, it does speak right where you're at at any time of any day.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Yes, yeah, it is powerful, it is powerful, yes. It is. I wish I could read it 24-7. I pray that one day I will have that type of discipline.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

But well, I think that's our heart that longs for more of him. Yeah. But we have to live in this world, and that's a wrestle I am constantly battling. It's like, you know, if I could just have my way, I would just, you know, let's go to heaven right now. Right. You know, just because the presence of God is so like there's just nothing like it.

SPEAKER_06 19:00

No.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

It's you cannot describe it, but yeah, we have to live in this world, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

It's funny you say that because that is something that I struggled with when I first got in the church. I had an encounter with the Lord that was so powerful. It overtook my whole body, and it was so life-changing. Um, and I'll never forget it. Um, but I struggled after.

SPEAKER_03 19:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Because how do you go from that to the mundane? Right. I I I was so caught in between. I felt like I was being pulled, and the Lord had to really reel me back in, and I'll never forget it one day. Like I was struggling. I was like, I want everything to be spiritual at this point, right? And it's not realistic, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:46

You know. Um so how did you find that balance? Because I still struggle with that balance quite a bit.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

So I re rely on the Lord. Um, so I I was in my living room praying one day, and the Lord said, Get your children and go for a walk. And I was like, Okay, you know, I don't know. I'm just gonna go for a walk. And that day, it was like the Lord slowed down everything for me. He's very romantic with me. I love that. Um, but he it's like the the sun shined brighter, the trees like in the wind, it slowed down, the birds chirping. And he says, This is what I want from you. I want you to take one step at a time.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Because at that moment I could self-evaluate and realize I was overwhelming myself. It became too much at this point because I was like overly zealous and thinking it was the spiritual high. You know, uh it was a lot, it was a lot, and I'm still trying to understand a lot, yeah. But that's what he did for me that day, and it made me realize okay, God, one day at a time, one step at a time, and just lead my and direct my steps. And sometimes, you know, like I can have these powerful prayer meetings, and like he can overwhelm me on other days not so much, or he might just be like, minister to your kids today, and that's what you did today for me. I'm like, okay, God, there's simplicity in this as well. Yeah, you know, yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

When God does it, it's just right, it's just perfect.

SPEAKER_03 21:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

So um, a little quick question. Um, when you left your relationship, was it amicable? Did she understand what's no it was difficult?

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Yeah, it was difficult. It was difficult on her. Um, but I I cut all ties.

SPEAKER_04 21:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

So there was no going back. I was in that lifestyle. I went to all the gay bars uh in Fresno. It's it's it's ingrained in Fresno as you're probably aware. Um, but I had to cut it all and I knew it.

SPEAKER_03 21:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

So I did, and I'll never forget, I received a uh private call maybe about a year or two later, and it was her and And she was like in tears, you know, uh broken. But honestly, I I just was like, I can't do this. Yeah. And I just, you know, and again, I wasn't I wasn't even in a place of maturity to explain what I was going through in that moment.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Yeah, she probably felt the rejection instead of understood the greater reason.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Yeah. Yeah. It's hard.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

So I just had to cut all that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Yeah. We boy, I I didn't know that about your story, but we are seeing so many people come out of that lifestyle. Yes. You know, or or I guess we're seeing people come out actively right now, but we're also hearing about those who have already come out and no one ever knew that they were ever part of it.

SPEAKER_03 22:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

And I feel like that part of the testimony is so needful because, you know, there there is, I think, God's really working in that community. Yes. And the uh the people like you who've gone before and already left, it gives them a way to escape, you know, because they don't know how, like you. Like me. I I um I didn't know how. I've said this in so many episodes. I didn't know how to live in this world because I always wanted to live in his world. Yeah. And I think that was a big part of why I I kept going back and forth in my walk with God because even when I was backslid, I I knew him, I loved him, he spoke to me. I had encounters, like that's always been a part of my life. Yeah, I just never knew how to live in the in-between, and I feel like he's still teaching me, you know, but it's never where my heart is. Yeah, my heart is always there. But I'm I'm doing better, I think. This this go-around, and I'm learning a little bit more. But yeah, anyways, um, so tell me about tell us about your husband, your children, and ultimately what brought you here to the podcast, the story about the miraculous healing of your daughter.

Finding Truth And The Holy Ghost

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Yes, of course. So um, my husband and I have been in the church four years.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Um did you get baptized with the Holy Ghost?

SPEAKER_01 24:26

And for everyone out there, if you're part of Pentecost, we don't talk about it that way very much. But people in the world do talk about the double baptism, the baptism of the spirit and the baptism of the water. So I feel like that's so interesting that you use that term, and um, I think it's important because we are baptized in the spirit of God, that's the infilling of the Holy Ghost. Uh, some uh doctrines call it the Holy Spirit. The Bible says both actually the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit. But so did you get baptized in the Holy Ghost before starting church four years ago or after you got in church?

SPEAKER_02 25:10

After. So what had happened was, and and I I want to say I put so much emphasis on it because I through the years of the Lord delivering me from that relationship, I had searched for God in different denominations.

SPEAKER_04 25:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Um, and but I I had always gone back to the word of God.

SPEAKER_04 25:29

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Um, I wanted the Lord. I didn't want man-made religion. Right. And I I'm not gonna lie, I was a little hard-headed, and I was like, you're not gonna tell me who God is.

SPEAKER_04 25:40

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

I want to find him for myself.

SPEAKER_04 25:41

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:42

Um, so that that's where that journey was. But I'm I'm I had met my husband right after I had stopped um studying with Jehovah's Witnesses. So I had gone on this journey looking for God's people, um, and nothing stuck for me. Like it was like, okay, there's hypocrisy. You know, I I come from an alcoholic background as well. So if I seen that you're partying, you know, on the weekend, but you're a worship leader, to me that was okay, complete hypocrisy. Right. I didn't want any of that. I've had it all. Right, right. I needed the real thing.

SPEAKER_04 26:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Um, so I had given up looking for God's people. Um, the last people were Jehovah's Witnesses, and they really confused me. About a year and a half, I studied with them and I saw a lot of hypocrisy in that.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Um, and they believed Hypocrisy with the Word of God, right? Hypocrisy is lining up.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

No, no. You did I knew what you meant. I'm just clarifying for the people in the wor in the audience, whoever they may be, because um we know there's hypocrisy in the church, sometimes um unintentional and sometimes intentional. Yeah, people are just people, but I'm just clarifying the word of God because you were reading it. Yes, and that's such an important distinction. If you don't know your word, you're not gonna know what people are actually teaching you. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:06

Right. And and and yeah, so there was hypocrisy with the word, but there was also more so hypocrisy with their relationships with each other. And that at that point in my life and where I was, that spoke louder to me. Okay, that told me that these weren't God's people.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

Um, so I pulled away and I gave up. And um, I met my husband, and he uh doesn't come from a religious background either. We did not grow up in church, uh, knew nothing of the Lord, uh, and he became uh everything to me. Um but from there, um where are we going with this, Ashley? Um from there he had taught me more so about love. I always say that. I remember our first date, and I said, you know, you don't know the Lord, and I read about him, and you have a lot of traits. I know he's looking down and really admires about you.

unknown 28:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

And he taught me a lot, and he came with his daughter. He had a daughter named Adeline, and that's my stepdaughter.

SPEAKER_04 28:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Uh so uh I've learned a lot through him and her. Um, it's so layered.

SPEAKER_04 28:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Uh, you know, so uh I began to learn to love, love him, but also love a child that was not my own. And that in itself is a journey. Yes, yes. Um, because uh you can love your own children naturally, but a child that is not yours, you have to be intentional, right? And I have had to learn that, and I've also learned that with the body of Christ, yeah, right. So um it's so layered, but they came into my life, and Marshall and I um there's so many depths to this. Um, we got pregnant, we got married, we had our wedding a week later, and we found out we were pregnant, and we went to a um ultrasound, and in the ultrasound we found out the baby didn't have arms or legs, and we got pulled into a room where he said you have to make a decision because your baby is not going to live. So we unfortunately had to make a s decision, and we were still in the world. So um we had to do a DNC and we we made the decision based on the provider's recommendation recommendation. Um and that really broke us. Um by the grace of God we stayed together, but we went through a lot of trials through that, and then how far along were you in your pregnancy when you found that out? Uh I think it was like 16 weeks.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

That's quite a ways at the first trimester.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Yeah, yeah. And it was the most depressing period of my life. Yeah. Um there's nothing like that to have to make that decision, you know. Um and and lose a baby. But uh I would hate to say that it had a part of me coming and and really, but I think it did because it's through our brokenness that we we can we come to the Lord, right? So we went through that, and then I had lost my brother, my older brother, who was um an addict on the streets. And at that point, I needed something. All my life was shattering. Um, we had been dealing with custodial issues with my stepdaughter, and the worst case scenario, uh, police being at our house with false accusations. So we had these layers of issues just piling up in our life, um, and we're drowning. And um then I finally was like, I need a group of ladies who are willing to come and and come to my house and do a Bible study. I need something, I need the Lord. So I started seeking again and I posted it on Facebook. There were five women who were supposed to come, and only one showed up, and she was from the Harvest Center, Katie.

SPEAKER_03 31:27

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

Yeah. Were you friends with Katie already or or no? So we had known of each other. We went to Exeter, but uh we we knew of each other, but we didn't know each other. She she just so happened to be on my Facebook. You know, every you kind of add everybody.

SPEAKER_04 31:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

But um, yeah, she showed up.

SPEAKER_03 31:47

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

And that's when it all began.

SPEAKER_03 31:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

Yes. I remember having Bible studies in my living room for weeks, and she would talk about like the gospel. And I was a little like, what is going on? Because the churches are not talking about this gospel.

SPEAKER_04 32:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

I had read the word so many times and I had never realized the emphasis of the Holy Ghost and the baptism of the Holy Ghost. So kind of jumping back to where we began, I have this desire for people to know the true gospel, the death, burial, and resurrection. Because I had searched for the truth. And nobody ever, not once could I recollect telling me the true gospel of Jesus Christ. That He not only died for us, yes, I know He died for me. The whole world is screaming that at me. Right. But like nobody told me he sent the Comforter, that He didn't just stop there, that He sent the Holy Ghost for me to be able to overcome my sin and live a successful life, uh a life to him, you know, uh and live for him and overcome through him and all the things that he brings. The peace. I remember thinking like Christians would tell me, just give it to Jesus, Ashley. Yeah, yeah, what does it mean? What does that mean? Stop telling me to give it to Jesus. I don't even know how to pray.

SPEAKER_03 33:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

You never even told me the true gospel.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

Right.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

And it breaks my heart. I remember when I got baptized with the Holy Ghost, and I'll never forget because I was overwhelmed with joy.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

And I felt like I was on a high. And the like, uh I was like, oh, I'm on a high, I've never been. I'm just being real. Yeah, yeah. You know, um, because it was it was I it was like, wow, God is real, he's tangible, he like just flew through me like a river, like it was a rushing river from my head to my feet. Yes, life-changing. But then I kind of came to and was like, what's going on out here in the world? This is not being taught, this is not being said.

SPEAKER_03 34:01

Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

And there's so many of us lost, right?

SPEAKER_03 34:04

And we need to need to know this.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

Yes, you know, yes. We need to know.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Yeah, yeah. Because it is the greatest thing, and if we could just get people to experience it, if we could give them our experience, like they wouldn't like us, they would never go back. They would just be all in. Yeah. But we can't give it to them.

SPEAKER_03 34:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

You know, right. They have to have a desire for it or a desire to know the Lord.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Apart from everything they've been taught.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

Or imagine.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

Amen.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

And that's where the power of prayer comes in.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Yes, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

I believe that. I believe that so much that I could walk past the person and say, God save them, and he hears me.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

And he will begin to reach for them.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

And it's simple.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

You know?

SPEAKER_01 34:59

I do that too a lot. Yeah. I'll drive by someone and yes. Yeah, and I do too. I, you know, we just offer it up and God's gotta do what we can't do.

SPEAKER_02 35:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Right. As much as I wanna nail it down then, like, come on, come on, you know, hit it over. I remember that I felt like that with my parents. Uh, we could it it's it has to do with my daughter and how how people had come to the Lord through my daughter. Yeah. So um we'll get on the subject of autumn if that's okay. Yes, yes. Yeah.

Autumn’s Diagnosis And Wrestling With God

SPEAKER_02 35:33

So I got in the church overwhelmed with the Holy Ghost's power.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

So you got the Holy Ghost through the Bible study or after you started going to church?

SPEAKER_02 35:41

So I got the Holy Ghost at a women's the women's conference in 2022 in Visalia.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Okay. After you started going to church. So I assume you went with Katie.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

After the Bible study. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

So so kind of uh rewinding a little bit, um, we had been doing the Bible study, and she talked about the Holy Ghost baptism and baptism in Jesus' name. And um, you know, just we read through the New Testament together. I which I love is she was patient with me and we we read together. Um, and I remember my my I had just had my son, and I was bouncing him in the room, and I said, God, I want the Holy Ghost. Like, if it's real, I want the Holy Ghost. And he spoke to me and he said, Well, be baptized in my name then, and you'll get the Holy Ghost. So I text Katie and I was like, Hey, I want to be baptized. She's like, Yeah, so they baptized me that weekend, which I love because a lot of churches are like, you have to become a member. Right. You know, and I thought that's not that's not biblical. So they were doing it, it was already like tying in for me. I read the word, so I was like, okay, they are biblical because I asked, and they're they were not, you don't have to wait for you know six months. No, you're gonna get baptized this weekend, and and I did, and when I came out of the water, oh my shame was gone. Yeah, I remember my husband had no understanding. Uh, he was still kind of just walking, yeah. Like, what is going on with our life right now? We're going to this church, these people are crazy, you know. But he was there, and I remember him sitting next to me, and we're driving home for my baptism, and I was like, Lord, wow. And I looked at him like, this might not make sense to you right now, but everything is brighter, like everything, and it's beautiful. And that night I went home, might sound crazy, probably not, because you know the Lord. Um, I had rejoicing in my mind. It was like I can hear just angels rejoicing all night long. I'll never forget it. Wow. And I I remember going to bed with the biggest smile on my face. Like, this is real. You are real. Yeah, I'm not walking in death anymore.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

Yeah, you know, this is life, yeah, and it's abundant, it is abundant, and in so many ways, some emotional, some mental, some physical, some financial, and every every domain that we live in as a human, it is abundant.

SPEAKER_02 38:19

It is, yeah, it's such a blessing. He did so much for us.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

Yeah, he did, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

So I've heard of those baptism stories. You're the third whose story of baptism was incredibly transformative. Yeah, like they came up feeling different, and um I didn't have that same experience. Yeah. I I mine was through obedience and knowledge, you know, from the word. But on Saturday, um, we baptized my niece at the church, and I was sitting on like uh the platform where the choir stands, so I was maybe 10 feet away from her getting baptized, and I'm not kidding, Ashley. I felt it when she when she went down and came up, I felt it hit my spirit. Yes, and I could and I knew that something was different, and I told her that. Wow, but I never experienced that. I've seen a lot of people get baptized, but I never experienced feeling in me what took place in her and what took place in that water, and um I mean God is just uh uh infinite in how he works and how he moves. And so it it's so exciting to hear what happened for you, you know, and the the little bit I got to experience with my niece. But um I'm always intrigued by those stories because God is uh such a personal God, He He does it different for each individual soul, you know, yes that is tailored to them, what they need, what they will recognize.

SPEAKER_05 40:13

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Okay, so Autumn. So you guys find the harvest center, you go to church. Okay, tell me about autumn. Had she been born at this time yet?

SPEAKER_02 40:24

Yes. So she was born in 2021. So when we got into the church, um she had barely been a year, and we were beginning to see the signs of delay. So at this point, um, we had been experiencing a lot of doctors' visits and uh referrals to CVRC and uh just various specialists. Um we ended up getting ABA therapy and our at one year old? Yes, uh at one, and they were with us for a long time in our home. Uh they'd come four hours a day because she she had a lot of needs. She was born with one P36 deletion syndrome. When we had um what is that? So that is a chromosome disorder. Uh, she's missing a part of her chromosome, um, and that causes uh an umbrella of diagnosis. So, like intellectual disability, hypotomia, uh, eye issues. It could potentially cause heart issues, uh, seizures, um, a wide vast variety. And those are only ones that they have like the data has collected. Yeah. Um, there's there's mom groups to follow, so you get more information from them, yeah, you know, and personal experiences than you do the actual doctor themselves. Sure, sure. Um, but sh we didn't find out that she had the chromosome disorder until um about a year and a half into um serving God and coming into the church. Uh so I was confused to say the least. Um with God. I was.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

I was confused. I I had thought we're gonna get these uh, you know, specialists in our home, they're gonna help her, and we're gonna be good, you know. Uh, but that wasn't the case. So when you get the diagnosis and then you have this overwhelming uh interaction with the Lord where you, you know, are like you are the healer, right? You are, you know, the mighty God, the counselor, the prince. You are everything you say you are, and I believe you at your word, God.

SPEAKER_01 42:41

And that and you experienced it. I did in many ways.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

In many ways, yes. I was going the harvest center really instilled prayer in us. So we were going to prayer meetings, and God would do mighty things. So with the culmination and me being a baby in Christ, I was confused and a mess. Um, I was like, well, I have my daughter who has this severe disability. You can restore these chromosomes. Why aren't you doing it, God? Right, right. What's going on here? Yes. Um, and I had all these questions for the Lord. Um, and he didn't answer them all right away. And I became angry um and confused. And then it began the journey of like, okay, well, let's apply the word. I'm gonna lay hands on the sick and I'm gonna watch her recover. I'm gonna anoint her. I'm gonna pray the prayer prayer of faith. I am going to cast this devil out. I'm being honest. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

That's well, that's what we're taught. That's what the Bible says. I mean, how do we not do those things?

SPEAKER_02 43:48

Yeah, like you know, you read the stories of the child that was mute since childbirth. Well, let's cast that out, you know? And I I I was um I didn't know, so I just Started doing whatever I could find in the Bible and I started studying it and trying to understand a little further what was going on. I remember going to um like healing services. I didn't know it was going to be a healing service. I'm a baby in Christ. I'm just showing up. Right. And um my family's there. And I remember this evangelist coming, and I'm just back there rocking her because she'd get really overwhelmed with all the sound and the noise and the praising. And uh I'm back there rocking her. And um we get an altar call, and he preached on healing and the miraculous that he had seen. You're like, wow, you know, and uh I thought, okay, and I pray for my daughter. But then one of the ladies came over to me and she's like, the evangelist wants you to go to him. And I was like, okay, so I walk myself over there and I'm at the altar, and he looks at me and goes, Do you believe the Lord can heal her? And at this time, you know, she's not walking. So uh an evident sign of healing to me in my mind at that point would be she'd be able to walk after this prayer. So I was like, Well, of course, but I'm gonna be honest, in my internal self, I was like, I have prayed for her. Right. I have you did all the things, I've done all the things, I've wept, I've cried, I've anointed, I've believed, I do believe God. I without a doubt believe He's a healer. Like there's no doubt in me. Right. So why is she not being healed? Right. So, okay, evangelists, go ahead. You know, that's how I felt.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

But man, I wonder as you say that, how many people in the body of Christ are living that right now?

SPEAKER_05 45:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

And have lived it, you know. Um, yes, because God's ways are not ours or his timing.

SPEAKER_02 45:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Yeah, go on.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

So and so many people would tell me too, like, trust God, trust him. Right. I'm like, well, what does that mean? Because I didn't come from a background of trusting anyone.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

Right.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

No one was trusting him.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

You were you were trusting him. You were without knowing.

SPEAKER_02 46:02

Right, right. I was ignorant. I didn't know.

SPEAKER_03 46:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

Um, yeah, I I I don't know. I again still learning. Um, but the evangelist prayed for her, and I walked into the bathroom and I was like, well, she should probably be able to walk now. No, she couldn't.

SPEAKER_03 46:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

And it broke me. I was like, God is my fa do I not have faith. Like I do believe. I hear your voice, God. I prayed to you. Um, I believe your word. Like, what is going on? What is wrong?

SPEAKER_01 46:37

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

Um, and uh that is a part of the journey. We I've gone to a few different ones. I've gone to a ladies' conference here in Visalia, and they had Sister Williams preach, and she showed the pictures of the various people that had been healed, and I tried to chase her down. I'm not going to lie, I did. I wanted her to pray for my baby. Desperate. Yes, and she had to get on a flight, so she couldn't do that. And I became angry and I left that conference that day, mad. You know, and I can't be mad at the people of God, they're not God.

SPEAKER_03 47:14

Right.

SPEAKER_02 47:14

But in that moment in in my life and where I was and wanting to see a miracle for my daughter, um, I was like, Jesus would have stopped.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:26

Jesus would have prayed for her.

SPEAKER_01 47:27

So the instinct is to then look at them as hypocritical or right, and I be you know, right.

SPEAKER_02 47:33

And it it wasn't right of me.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

Oh, but it happens, that's the reality of our humanity.

SPEAKER_02 47:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

And we have to be so careful.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

But we don't know that until it's revealed to us through the Lord, right?

SPEAKER_02 47:46

Right, right. And and and I've had to learn that. I have had to learn that. And I think that is like the Lord is so gracious. He knows your heart, he knows that you don't have ill intention, you just do not know.

SPEAKER_03 48:01

Right.

SPEAKER_02 48:01

So it it like you said, it's a revealing, and I appreciate the Lord's grace and all my mess. Yeah, yeah. Um, but eventually I learned that, you know, and through wise counsel through the church, because I'm in these broken states where I just want to lash out. Um, so many people in the church, the body of Christ is amazing and beautiful because it also taught me how I need them.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

So you didn't shut down and move away from church. No, you you continued to stay open. Absolutely, even though you were angry and hurt and not under that that's huge.

SPEAKER_03 48:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

That that's that's really huge, is is for people to learn to stay open when we don't understand. Yeah. Because we tend to take matters into our own hands and then get resentful and bitter.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

Yeah.

unknown 48:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:52

Okay. Nope.

SPEAKER_01 48:53

Keep going.

SPEAKER_02 48:54

I'm still I'm I was still so open. Um, again, I I I can acknowledge that I don't know. I don't know what I don't know. Right. So I was on a journey. Um, and then oh wow, where are we at?

SPEAKER_01 49:10

So you went into the bathroom, she wasn't healed, and you were angry.

SPEAKER_02 49:15

Angry. And I think a part of this I had to learn that the Lord doesn't

A Dream, A Promise, And Progress

SPEAKER_02 49:21

say no. A lot of the time it's like no, not right now. It's not the way you think it's going to be, Ashley. Um, so I I had to learn that with the Lord, but the Lord is gracious, and I say this because at this point, my daughter was in services, she had got her um diagnosis and she began to walk in her walker. Um, she couldn't walk uh independently, and uh she couldn't talk. Um and she'd say and babble, but there was no communication, you know. Um and the Lord one night gave me a dream. And in this dream, I was in a waiting room and I was praying, and then a bus came and I got on the bus and I sat down, and then the conductor was like, Look, there they are, and mind you, again, that's layered during this time in my walk. I was also praying for my husband, not been baptized, not received the Holy Ghost. Uh, he didn't know about the church. So I walk back on the in the dream, and there's my husband, and there is my daughter. And in these dreams from God, it's like you have a knowing. Right. And I could hear the sound on the bus, and it was like, someday soon we're gonna make it home. And that was repeating, yeah, and I knew we were on our way to heaven in my dream.

SPEAKER_03 51:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 51:03

So if you think about it, my husband was on the bus. Yes, and your daughter, and my daughter, but she was walking and talking, yeah, and I knew it in my dream. Yeah, all I had to do was look at her and I knew it.

SPEAKER_03 51:14

Right.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

And it was this knowing, and I I woke up again, I'm a baby. Yeah, so I called one of the girls from the church, like, I had this dream, and it was so vivid. And comfort, yes, yes, and and it doesn't stop there though. Like it was like I can't say that because the Lord gave me a dream in the moment I was comforted, but I can't say I kept walking and stayed in that comfort, right? Right because I didn't, I was facing realities, right?

SPEAKER_01 51:43

Because it's a journey, it is a journey. We're gonna have highs and lows, ups and downs, and good days and bad days, and we have to hold on to the things that the Lord has spoken, right? Or put into our spirit, in your case, the dream.

SPEAKER_02 52:00

And I have to live these things to understand them. So like the preacher would preach these things, but we don't have experiential knowledge, nothing, right? It's not per it wasn't personal for me until that happened. And I I I walk the walk, yeah, you know, and then two years later, she's walking and she's talking. Yeah, and the Lord fulfilled the promise. But the two years in between, I had a lot of highs and lows. Yeah, I didn't understand. I I wanted it done right then and there. But I also uh to be frank, I wanted to see her to be a typical developing child. Yeah, and that was not God's plan. He was telling me, I'm going to heal her to walk, I'm gonna allow her to talk, but you know, she still has her disease, yeah, she still has restrictions that don't allow her to do what typical developing children do. Right. But he has allowed her to do fundamental things that mean so much to me. Yeah, you want to see your child walk and not be confined. You want to see your hear your child communicate with you and say, I love you. Right. That was so big to me when I heard it for the first time. That was like a diamond.

SPEAKER_03 53:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:18

Because it there's no value to hear your child say something from themselves.

SPEAKER_03 53:25

Right.

SPEAKER_02 53:25

And I'm so grateful for that.

SPEAKER_03 53:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:28

I am so grateful for what he has done in her and continues to do. He actually um she had glasses, and the picture I sent you, she has glasses. And last year we had to go to Stanford for a follow-up. And it's funny how it works out because Valley Children's couldn't get us in and they had long wait lines because for their pediatrician in Fresno uh is backed up. So they're like, We have to send you to Stanford. Okay, we'll go. We went, um, and the doctor looks at me and he goes, Who ordered these? And I was like, uh Valley Children's. And he goes, How long has she had them? About three years now. He goes, I don't understand why she ever had them.

SPEAKER_03 54:14

Wow, yeah, wow, yeah, because God had healed her eyes, God had healed her eyes.

SPEAKER_02 54:20

Wow. And at this point, it was like, okay, God, healing is progressive. Yes, just like a wound. Yes. It's I yes, I wanted the miracle, but you are doing so much more in the midst. Yeah, you know, and and I I jump ahead and I do apologize because the Lord is so multifaceted and he has done so much in a short period. Right, right. That I'm kind of jumping around. So I do apologize.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

Oh, you're good. I'm tracking, I'm sure everyone is.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

Okay, but in this process of my daughter um having ABA services, um, and that's applied to my behavioral analysis. And they'd come to my home for four hours a day. I met um a worker, her name was Mandy, and she would come and she was an Orthodox um Catholic. Okay. I had no idea even what that was.

SPEAKER_01 55:14

Right, right. I had no idea. There are sex within the Catholicism.

SPEAKER_02 55:18

We'd talk about, you know, praying to Mary, all the things. Yeah. Uh but we would just get chatting, and the Holy Ghost would move. You know,

How Autumn’s Story Reaches Others

SPEAKER_02 55:26

you know when the Holy Ghost is moving, but we would just talk about the Bible. That's really all we needed to talk about, and Jesus and all the things, you know. And I had just uh experienced the baptism of the Holy Ghost, so I'm exuberant. Yeah, I'm like, let me tell you about this Jesus that I met, you know, and we we'd chat and she'd go home and she'd study. And I remember, yes, and the Lord was working.

SPEAKER_01 55:52

Seeds, yes, yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 55:54

Yeah. And I remember one Friday, God told me, go on a fast for her. And I was like, okay, I'll go on a fast for her, pray for her salvation and whatever else, you know. God, God knows. Yeah, I don't know everything, but um, that Sunday she had texts or emailed me. I'm sorry, and she said, I get it. I see it in Acts 19. Even the ones that were baptized into John's baptism were re-baptized. I see the Holy Ghost. I see it. I need to come to your church. I'm coming next Sunday. Wow. So she comes pre-service. The pastor's not there. Some of the women were praying. She gets she gets baptized in the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues. She just came expecting, and God.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 56:45

The Lord had opened, the Bible says the Lord will open the heart, you know, yes, uh, to receive him. And he did do that. Wow. So I was like, oh wow, Lord. So you're using my daughter to reach for people. Yeah. And you have a purpose behind all of this. And that really, when I received that revelation, that is what sealed the deal for me. Yeah. That his plans are greater than our plans, yeah, and his ways are greater than our ways. And I have to submit to what he wants in this life because she will be made fully whole one day. Yes. And I know that.

SPEAKER_01 57:27

And ultimately, Ashley, I think we we want our children to be happy. We don't want them to suffer. We want them to know joy and to know love and all the things. And I think as a mom, it you know, you would worry and wonder her capacity to do that if she was disabled, right? And now, um, what are you seeing now in spite of the disability in her?

SPEAKER_02 57:56

Yeah. Well, she ha she can read. Wow, she can read. They said, like, oh, the max words she'll have is five words.

SPEAKER_04 58:06

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 58:06

And she could full-on read. Praise the Lord. She she's we're working on with OT for the the the writing. She does struggle with writing. But I mean, if the Lord has allowed her to healed her body to walk, this far, right? Took away the glasses, allowed her to have speech and to be able to read. I I believe it's endless. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:29

Of course.

SPEAKER_02 58:29

And I just have to believe that he'll continue, you know, to heal.

SPEAKER_01 58:32

Because he who started a good work and you will complete it. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Wow. Right. Yeah. And so how what? I know there's so many things that you have learned. What have you learned about yourself in this journey on waiting for God to move and to work and to heal? Like at what point did you? So that's one question. I sometimes ask five at the same time. Uh, I don't mean to do that, but so that's one question. But also, what was the first sign that you noticed God had begun to heal her? Do you remember when the first thing that you said, okay, God, I see that you're working?

SPEAKER_02 59:24

Honestly, I never had that moment up until I was gone on a trip. And uh, they sent me a video of her walking for the first time. I wasn't even there.

SPEAKER_01 59:34

Wow. How'd you feel about not being there?

SPEAKER_02 59:38

I was okay with that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:39

You were just happy that she was walking.

SPEAKER_02 59:42

Totally fine. Yeah. Um, totally fine. I don't even remember where I was, but yeah, they sent me a video, and she was walking for the very first time with my mom there and Mandy, who God had already been working on. Yeah. It's funny too, because the Lord had reached He reached my mom through Mandy, not me. My mom did not receive the gospel through me, she rejected it.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:10

And that's something I did learn. Uh, I've learned a lot. I bet. I learned so many things, but yeah, through Mandy, I think my mom was able to be the Lord was working and constructing not only within myself and my daughter and Mandy, but also my mom.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:28

Uh, because through their communication, uh, she received the gospel and came and received God and comes to church and does all the things too.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:39

So um why do you think she was unable to receive it from you? I mean, the Bible says a prophet is um unwelcome except in uh I forget how that scripture goes, but basically in your own home, you know, you're gonna be not accepted for your calling, basically.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:58

Yeah, there's no honor there.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:59

Yeah, yeah. As without honor except for in his own home. Yes, that's how it goes. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:04

I believe it was the family dynamic, and I still see that today. I actually have some people will ask me, like, well, why don't you go pray for them? Um, I pray from them for them in secret. Yes, and the Lord promises that he will reward that openly.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:25

And um, I don't believe I need to go lay hands on them. They're my family. Uh, I believe the Lord works mysteriously. And there's something about faith that is supernatural. And and to have like another brother and sister go and speak life over them and pray for them. I think there's something more powerful that will happen there than me being daughter or sister that knows everything about them.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:50

Right. Right. Because we assume there's some bias there, I'm sure, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:55

Yes. And I want to leave that. Right. I want to I want the Lord to work.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:59

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:59

Um, so I I try to use wisdom as much as I have that He has given. Uh, and and that's yeah, that's how I operate with them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:10

Well, it's wonderful to see what He's done with your family. Yeah. And so what have you learned about yourself and your humanity throughout all of this?

Surrender, Words, And Dying To Self

SPEAKER_02 1:02:25

Um, what have I learned about myself? Um I could do nothing without Christ. Uh, the power of prayer and submitting to Him and all things. Um, He has through the four years has taught me to really not only trust but surrender. There's such a power in surrendering, but it hurts.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:51

It's a dying of self.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:54

Absolutely. I remember one time I asked the Lord, again, I'm a baby, and I was like, some people tell me not to say that, but I'm being real. Um, and uh I said, God, what does it mean to die to yourself? Like crucify the flesh. I don't understand. And he tells me plainly, he says, you know, when you get very upset at your husband and you want to spew all of that out, and when you do it, it feels so good to release it. I was like, Yes. He goes, when you spew it, you sin against me. But have you noticed when you keep your mouth shut, it hurts you and it's so painful. Oh, that's really good. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, Yes, he goes, that's when you're crucifying it. Because there's power.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:46

Choosing not to sin and say, Yes, and choosing to hold it and then deal with how it feels for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:53

Yes, I have learned so much about the words, yes, and what we see. Powerful, very powerful. There is death and life in the power of the tongue, right? And then it goes on to say, and those who eat of it will eat of its fruit. Yes, and that really speaks to me. That's what I become.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:11

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:11

What I speak.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:13

Right, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:14

And I don't want to be speaking curses over my husband either. I'm not saying I'm perfect. Families get upset with each other. Right, right. And they say things. I come from a family that that's how they dealt with things. They spewed all this venom and then they wiped it under the rug and kept walking.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:35

And I had to learn with the Lord, you cannot do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:39

Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:41

Yeah. So you said um that I can do nothing without Christ. And I think um that it's such a a cliche a cliche statement until you actually live that. Yeah. You know, and I think for people who live that, surrender is so much easier because we we are so aware of our own limitations in our humanity. Yeah. Um that really, you know, I think Roman says we live and move and have our being in him. When that really becomes experiential for a person, then that statement, which we've heard a million times, I can do nothing apart from Christ, it becomes so real. Yeah. Because we really truly can't when when he is our source, you know. When when we do really learn to surrender every part of ourself to him. Yes. But it it is a dying, and it is I like the example that you said because how many people are guilty of just saying what they want when they want based on however they feel how they feel at that time, yes. The dying to self because I am not doing what I would want to do, yeah, in order to be obedient to God's word and to him, you know, and to do the right thing. Right. And that that's not always easy because we're so many people are governed by their emotions.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:18

Yes. And that's something the Lord teaches you. Thank God for His grace. Right. His grace being sufficient is teaching you not to be reactive. Yeah. And He really is so graceful and patient.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:32

You know, um, I I've had to learn the surrender in all aspects. I remember two years ago, my husband had lost his job, and that was an obstacle in itself. Sure. Of learning the Lord to be the provider and another deeper level of surrender to his will despite the circumstances that we are facing.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:55

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:56

Um it it he teaches you, he teaches you he's the provider, he's the healer, he's the physician, he's he's he's everything, and we do need him. Oh, I need him.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:10

Yeah. So did you ever read um Kim Haney's book, God's Got a Waiting Room?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:18

I am currently still in the process of listening to her book. Okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:23

Yeah, it's it's powerful because I think um I wrote in my notes the instinct to doubt ourselves when you when that evangelist prayed for her and it didn't happen immediately. And our instinct is to go inside. Am I doing something wrong? Is there something more I should be doing? You know, God, I believe these prayers. I know I prayed these prayers, I know I've shed the tears and probably even fasted. So, what have you what have you learned about that? Where God is concerned, you know, do you think that it was always in the works? Do you think that there was more for you to do? Uh, did he show you that this really isn't about you, what you can do or not do? Like, what have you learned through this process of waiting?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:17

I believe uh personally that God is a revealer. He is a God of prophecy. I mean, he he has given us the beginning from the end. Right. And I believe that he was being the comforter in that moment to show me like this is this is what is to come. I am going to heal her in these areas. Um, I I believe that's what I personally believe. He was showing me, I'm comforting you, I'm giving you hope. I am being who I I am, you know, um, and just to trust in me through it. Um, some I I there's so many things you learn, so it's hard to nail it down. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:58

Did you ever learn to stop doubting yourself that that it was something that you needed to be doing differently? Oh, absolutely. In order to get him to answer.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:07

Yeah. To answer before the the dream.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:11

Yeah. Or what did the dream fix that for you?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:15

The dream fixed that for me. Yeah. Uh the the dream had a big role in it, as well as watching the teacher come to God. Yeah. Then I understood his plan was bigger. And um if he never chose to heal her, he had purpose within it. Yeah. And I was okay, I had to be okay with that. Um, because I even have my my son, he's level three autistic. Um, you know, you he's only what eight months apart from her. So I I've learned through her that I had to trust God with him as well. Yeah. That there might be people that are going to come to the Lord through them, and I had to be okay with that.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:05

And there's so much more like I can suffer to see someone saved. Yeah. He did that for me. Right. And I'm okay with that. I hope that answers your question. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:19

Yeah. That's really what I've gotten from it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:22

Yeah. No, that's good. If you can use them, that's fine. Because he settled it for you. He gave you peace through that dream. He just gave you the answer that you needed that made sense of all of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:35

Yes. When you start to see the purpose behind it, I think it's a lot easier to walk and understand a little bit more of what he's doing.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:47

You don't want it to just be purposeless, you know. I think there's sin in the world. Do I understand why they were born the way they were born? I don't.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:56

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:57

I don't. And I'll I don't know if I'll ever wrap my mind around it. Um, but um if he can use it for his glory, I submit to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:07

Yeah, yeah.

Grief, Anger, And God’s Comfort

SPEAKER_01 1:11:10

Can you talk about grief a little bit? Did you ever identify what you were going through as grief?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:20

Yes, yes. I I grieved. Um, and I through the oh my, does grief have emotions?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:28

Oh, yes, it does.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:29

Uh anger, resentment. Uh, people would speak into me and tell me, you know, like I said, trust the Lord, or He has purpose. Those words were not helpful in the beginning stages. Right when you first receive a diagnosis like that, that you begin to grieve their future. Yes. The life that you thought they would have.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:52

Because grief is about loss. Yeah. First and foremost, what loss of what you're not getting, of expectation, of hope, of yes, not not just death, but it is a death in its own way.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:04

It really is. It really is. And that that was a very dark time in my walk. And I was a baby in Christ. So I can remember though, again, the Lord is gracious and he will send people. And he will send people even of the, you know, I say of the world, uh, but anybody. Anybody.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:25

Even if they're not in church.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:26

Right, even if they're not in church, yes. Yeah. Thank you. Um, and uh he did that for me, and I was so grateful. I'll I'll never forget. I I was on my knees crying out to him, not understanding again, because grief has it's like a roller coaster highs and lows. Um, and I had received a knock at the door, and I went to the door, and it was a supervisor for Autumn's ABA therapy. And she I was like, Oh, I'm so sorry. I was I'm not able to meet today. Um, and she could hear it in my voice, and all she was like, What's wrong? And I'm like, I just received Autumn's diagnosis and I'm praying, and I'm just overwhelmed in myself. I felt like flooded, yeah, just consumed. Uh I guess that's the only way to explain it, consumed, and she shoved herself in my door. Wow, and that's so brave. Yes, yes, wow, right? This random person shoving themselves in your door. But she walked herself in and she sat with me on the couch, and she also has a daughter who has autism. So she could understand from a mother's heart what it felt like to receive that news and not know what to do with it, and have the flood of emotions and the what-ifs for your child. And uh, she offered not only a listening ear in my mess because I probably didn't make any sense, um, but uh more so compassion. Yeah. And I could, I'll never forget it. It was like God speaking through her, and it was a flood of compassion that spoke to my spirit, yeah. That when I needed it, and it was the Lord. Yes, yes, it was the Lord, and I was so grateful for that. Yeah, he heard what were the chances I was in my room praying, and that took place within minutes to comfort, yeah, and he comforted me in the midst of the flood of emotions. But grief, grief is a is something scary because if you allow it to consume you, you begin to project it and hate people, and you find issues with everything they say. People would try to uh tell me things about children with disabilities who didn't have them, and I would find myself becoming angry. Like you don't know, you don't experience this. Right. Who are you to speak? And that would really upset me. Yeah, right, yeah. Um, but I've had to learn the fruits of the spirit and and understanding people from their perception of reality, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:13

Because it is their experience, right? They are still experiencing child, yeah, some form of disability in their life to the degree that they understand it, right? And that emotion. Um, I always say, like, it doesn't matter how we get to sorrow. Sorrow is sorrow for whoever it encounters, you know. The circumstances change, the emotions, yeah, the way it affects and impacts a person doesn't change. Yeah, you know, and it is hard not to compare, it is hard not to uh dismiss thinking that someone doesn't understand because they don't to the they're not living none of us are living someone else's circumstances we can empathize with how it must feel because we feel similar, you know. Yeah, but I um I applaud you and I know it was God, but it also was the condition of your heart to continually stay open and willing. Yeah. And I think that that's the difference maker in people who can work through circumstances that might be lengthy or disheartening or grievous, you know, from the ones that get angry and resentful and bitter, yeah, and then see the fruit of that, you know, come down the pike. Um, because it is it is so hard to trust when we can't see. Yeah. You know, but God does God does show up in unexpected ways if we can have eyes to see. When that lady left the supervisor, did you know after she left that God had sent her, or do you only know that in hindsight?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:06

No, I did know that in that moment. Yeah, I needed that. I was so grateful. Yeah, because a part of me, I and I'm being transparent, was like, why has nobody shown up for me?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:19

I had like I felt alone.

unknown 1:17:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:21

Like I've told people that were I thought were close to me and nobody's shown up for me. Yeah. Why is that? And then the Lord sent her.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:30

And I want to speak to that for a second because um I think that there are seasons in our lives, and for anyone listening at home, if you have felt like you've been alone and no one has shown up for you, and people in the church didn't call when they should have, or you know, left you hanging with something you're going through. I think sometimes that is by God's design. Oh, yes. He does take us through a season of separation so that our dependency becomes solely on him. And we don't always know that in the moment. Um, but if any of us could live long enough and survive whatever circumstance we're going through in the moment, God does reveal himself and he does answer our questions in time. Yeah. But in the moment, um it is it is that pivotal place when we are either going to just take a day by day and get through the day and you know, white knuckle it. Yeah. Even in our faith, white knuckle it. But if we could just get through the day and stay open and not formulate conclusions and not turn away, that's such a key thing, right? And and the enemy is right there nipping at our ear, making accusations about all the people in church and accusations about God and and maybe more importantly, accusations about ourselves, right? Telling us how bad we are, how it's never gonna happen, you know, whatever, all the things. But but isolation and um and the aloneness when we're walking through difficulty, I think is often God allowing that for a purpose. Um, and I think it's beautiful that you could recognize that God it God can use anybody anywhere, um, at any time, and they don't have to look like us or be like us, you know. Um He He can just He can just show up through anybody. Yes. And and so I think that's such a beautiful thing, Ashley. Yeah that you could recognize it in that moment. That is good, yeah. So um so what now?

Faith That Grows Beyond What We See

SPEAKER_01 1:20:08

Where where are you guys now in in this time in your life with your daughter, with your family, with your future? Like, what are your expectations of God? What are you still hoping for? What do you want God to do like in you and all the things?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:28

Um, ultimately, like through me, uh I only hope to witness and see people come to the Lord. That is my deepest desire is to see see people come to the Lord and know Him and expert a very deep inner core prayer of mine is Lord, you are so good, and I've experienced such amazing things from you that I want people to experience the same thing. You are an awesome God, yeah, you know, and uh I just hope that through us living that my family could be a walking testimony of Jesus Christ, yeah. And uh I can say by God's grace as well, my husband has received the Holy Ghost, is active in Bible study and is getting to know the Lord now, which He he ran before. So the Lord is working, yeah, and it is in His timing, like you said before. And autumn, she continues to progress, and I have to be okay with progression. Yeah, yeah and August as well. He he was uh nonverbal for a long time, tantrums, issues, and I think the Lord is uh his hand is all in it. Yeah, I can just see our family, and his hands are under us. So um I just pray that the Lord can the Lord's will be done through my family.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:58

I think anyone who really has experienced the Lord has a desire to just see others know him. Yes. Because he is that good, he's so good, and you you know, we just want people to know him. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I feel the same. Um I don't know how to ask this question. Okay. Um what what I want to say is what has this done to your faith? But that seems so simple. So I guess what I'm asking is, does your faith waver still? I do you feel like there's levels of faith that you're growing into? Do you feel like there's new uh levels of faith God's asking you to believe for that is different from what it was when you started on this journey? And and do you feel like you still struggle sometimes in having faith for things, or do you feel like it's just so certain uh because of what you've seen God do?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:07

Yeah. So I would say it's simple to believe for others. Uh I I believe faith can be very simple, and I have a simple faith. Uh has it grown exceedingly abundantly? Absolutely. Yeah, especially after deep encounters with his spirit. Uh I have no doubt. Um, and I can believe for others. Ultimately, it's the Lord's will to be done, and I I surrender to that as well. Um I remember uh going to a crusade in El Salvador for the first time, first crusade, and this is regarding faith. Um and I was talking to the Lord about what I was seeing, and um he would speak to me uh because a man's eyes were healed there. One of his eyes, Brother J.R.'s eyes, was healed, and I thought, wow, this is miraculous. You know, um but the Lord spoke to me and said, Imagine what I'm doing spiritually. Look back on your walk and all the things I've done in these close encounters with me that you've had. Imagine what I am doing to the vast majority that you are overlooking. And I thought, wow. I now I know when I go to service at church or or anywhere in the supermarket and I pray for someone, the Lord heals and he answers. His his promises are yes and amen. And I've got to be okay with that, regardless of what I see. Yeah, I should not have to see a tumor healed to believe, yeah, because far greater is healing of the spirit and the soul and their salvation than anything else. And right, I have my that's where my faith is at. Yeah, I will pray. I will pray and we will continue to move because it is God. Yeah, yeah, He is doing it all.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:56

And that really just when when it's not about us, it's just so much easier, right? Oh, yeah. And that that seems um again, I think that's a revelation because it's really not about us. No, it's about God showing us who He is, and we're just vessels, you know, to be used by Him. Yes, yeah. What what a tremendous blessing to go to El Salvador.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:21

Yes, it was life-changing. I think uh they they say like some things cannot be taught, they have to be caught. Brother Robinette says that, and I appreciate that because I've caught so many things that I can't even put into words that I want to see the body of Christ built. Because it's better to be an army than an individual.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:42

Right. I believe we're growing into it. I mean it's the more people I talked about, it's changed. There is a unity in fellowship, I think, that um is new. Yes, has hasn't really existed maybe at another time in in life, you know, maybe in a different um generation there was, but I feel like it's really changing now too for us.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:10

Yes, God's vision is being imprinted in the hearts of his people. I believe that. And I feel that I feel that tremendously. And you just have this overwhelming desire to see others become strong, spiritually strong in the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:25

And walk out their faith in victory.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:27

Yes, yes. And when you come from like, you know, like not of like not being in church, I think one of the biggest issues I had personally was believing that the Lord could use me in any capacity. Why would you want to use me? So now I have this deep desire to to speak life into women and speak life into individuals. Like your prayers matter. He hears you, he loves you. You keep praying, you do not give up, he will use you. There is no limit to our God.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:00

Right, and we don't have to come already equipped. He he equips us. Right. I love that you know that, and I love that you you do that for others because really they just they need to know that they can be what God wants them to be and they can be used to that. They matter.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:19

Yeah, yeah. And there is power in believing in someone.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:22

There is, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:23

There is power. Like if the Lord shows me something about an individual, yeah, I want to pray that I want to speak that over them. Right. And I want to believe that for them.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:35

Right. No matter what. Well, because God God revealed who He's calling them to, what He's doing in them. Yes. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:42

And imagine what that will do for the kingdom. Yes, God's purpose is multiplication. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:48

And there's so many people in my life over the years that spoke words into my life that carried me when I couldn't do it for myself, I couldn't believe for myself, but I I could believe that, you know, that person that spoke it because I could look at their life, right? And it is so important how those seeds get planted and and how they will grow in that person just because you spoke it.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:16

Yeah. We don't know what they're going through. No. We don't know what battles they face. Right. I I relate to you. Um, there have been people spoken into me that they don't know, but it it I clutched it to my heart. I repeated it. I wrote it down. Yeah, me too. It meant so much, and that's all I had. Yeah. It was a word from the Lord. Yeah. And it it it it helped you. Yeah. Yeah. It does.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:42

Yeah.

Waiting Room Advice And Closing

SPEAKER_01 1:28:43

So I always ask, I always end in the same way. I know there's there's there is a lot of layers to all of this, and and we just did a an overview, but I think um I think that I think that, you know, you got to experience the miraculous seeing an eye healed, but in your case, God performed a healing, which is progressive, not instant.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:11

Um, and so I think we miss the process often.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:17

If we don't if we rush God and uh we don't understand what he's trying to do, but yeah, it's in the process he reveals himself to us and what he's doing and who he is and who we are and what he's trying to complete in us.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:32

So um, since you're not a backslider, what would you say to someone going through a period where they're in the waiting room, waiting for God to answer, waiting for God to move, doubting or worrying or wondering or scared that maybe he won't. What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_02 1:29:57

I'm gonna tell you what he had me do because I can only give what he has given me, nothing more, nothing less, is root yourself in prayer in the word. Let him pour into you. Find a secret. You know, Jesus went to the mountain, he left the crowds and he prayed. Yes, like you're going, he will sustain you through everything you're going through if you will make time just to meet him in prayer by yourself. There's something about one-on-one prayer where no one is home with Jesus, and he will sustain you through it, and he will make a way where there seems to be no way. Yeah, he will. But prayer was my outlet, he has been my source, that's all I have had, and he has seen me through.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:47

Yeah. Yeah, don't stop communicating, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:30:50

No matter what you feel or what you you know, we often want to internalize and and recluse almost, you know. But even if you're reclusing from people, because I I believe that's that's what we do sometimes. Yeah, if you were to go to prayer, it will he will lift some of that from you. He says his yoke is light, right? So he'll lift that that heaviness and uh you will be able to walk, walk free. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:21

Yeah, yeah. So um, well, thank you, Ashley, for being here and for sharing some of this um with everybody. And I'm excited about you. I'm excited about what God's done for you guys and your family and about your church and just wonderful. Yeah, you guys have really wonderful things going on. So, like I've said before, if you're in the Porterville, Exeter, Lindsay, Strathmore area, the harvest center, um, wonderful people, wonderful pastor and their family. Just, you know, God is still in the miracle working business. He is the God of the impossible. And when you read the Bible, it says it over and over and over. Nothing is too hard for him. His hand is not short that he cannot save. He still answers today. And um, this is just one example of what God has done in a life. But like you said, the spiritual and the physical, you know, he's working in both, and and um seeing a soul redeemed and saved is the most important. So thank you everyone for being here. Um, we'll see you again next week. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:40

We are so glad you joined us. If you have a story of redemption or have worn the label of a backslider, we would love to hear from you. If you'd like to support our ministry, your donation will be tax deductible. Visit our website at the redeemedbackslider.org. We hope you will tune in for our next episode.