Delivered From "IT" Amber Alonso: TRB Episode 53

She was the “good kid,” the straight-A student, the one who looked fine. But beneath the surface, Amber Alonzo was carrying loneliness, bullying, grief, and a private depression that eventually turned into anorexia nervosa and relentless intrusive thoughts. Amber joins me to tell the truth about what eating disorders actually feel like, how quickly control becomes obsession, and why so many teens hide pain behind perfectionism and people pleasing.

Tune in to hear the complete testimony of Amber Alonso!

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider. With your host, Kathy Chestane, Christian-based psychotherapist and redeemed backslider. This podcast is dedicated to those who have wandered but are ready to return to the life-changing power of grace and the freedom found in Jesus.

SPEAKER_06 0:22

Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider. I'm your host, Kathy Chastain. I'm a Christian-based psychotherapist and a redeemed backslider. Today's guest is Amber Alonzo. She is our youth pastor's wife. She plays a big role in leading our youth. And I wanted to have her today because a couple of years ago I heard a little bit about her testimony, and I was very taken back and surprised. But also, you know, just very grateful for all that God has done in her life. And so as a clinician, um, I have seen a lot of girls in my office who have shared the same exact testimony and are still kind of dealing with um the issues that we're going to talk about today. So um I I thought that it would be really great to have Amber talk about her own testimony, um, how she came to the Lord in the first place, and then how she ultimately came into Pentecost and um what she has gone through in her life. So with that, Amber, thank you for being here tonight.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_06 1:37

Yes. So um I don't know a ton about your background. I know that you were not born and raised in our particular church, uh Pentecostal Lighthouse. Were you raised in church um as a child growing up, or did your family come into church later?

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Yes. So we were raised in church, my sisters and I, my brothers came later. Um, but yeah, we attended a Trinitarian church growing up. It wasn't always consistent, but I do remember going to like children's church and then attending the main services with my parents too when I got a little bit older.

SPEAKER_06 2:16

So without getting into theology much, what can you just tell us what kind of church that was? Because there's a lot of churches out there that that are Trinity, and so what like was it uh was it still like a Pentecostal style church or was it?

SPEAKER_01 2:34

It was an assemblies of God church. Assemblies of God, okay. Yeah, so they did claim to be Pentecostal.

SPEAKER_06 2:40

Okay, well they are in nature. There's yeah. For everyone watching at home, if you don't go to a Pentecostal church, um we're just talking about a little bit differences in um baptism belief systems, and when you get into theology and what separates Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, you know, those are all doctrinal issues and how we interpret the Bible and form our doctrine out of that. We're Acts 238 church, so we uh baptize in the name of Jesus, and so that's what she's talking about. Um, but there are a lot of churches that are actually considered to be Pentecostal, our church particularly is a little bit different in that we baptize different, so that's kind of what she was referring to. So there's a lot of people that watch that are maybe not necessarily um our United Pentecostal church. So I wanted to give the clarification.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Yeah, yeah. Thank you for doing so.

SPEAKER_06 3:45

But for you coming out of that, uh, you know, that is kind of its own little testimony and the revelation about baptizing in Jesus' name versus the titles.

Childhood Moves And Feeling Alone

SPEAKER_04 3:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:59

Um so how did you like what was your life like growing up?

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Um I feel like that can be a loaded question.

SPEAKER_06 4:09

It was Well, uh the reason I'm asking is there's a lot of wonderful people out there who do their best to be Christians. Yeah. Right? We all do. And so I guess m I'm asking more to illustrate the struggles that everybody has that maybe someone can identify because you know, I grew up in church too, but our home was not perfect. And so um I I think there is no normalcy when it comes to homes. You know, maybe there's a few that that do really well in in the home front, but just overall, like just growing up being a girl, are you the oldest?

SPEAKER_01 4:52

I am okay.

SPEAKER_06 4:52

So I had the pressure of being the oldest, and yeah, and generally they are the more perfectionistic.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Yes, yes, and that's me, yeah, very much perfectionist and type A. Um, I enjoyed my childhood for the most part when I was really young, before I feel um teenage issues stepped in. But my sisters and I, we were close when we were younger. Um then growing up, we would always bicker and fight. And when I turned 12 years old, that's when my brother came to live with us. He he's adopted, so we got him when he was four months old. Um love him to death. We don't see the separation in him being adopted. You know, he has our name, he's our family. Right, right. Um and then it was like all the focus was on him too, him being a little baby. That's a big age difference. It is. Well, there's even a bigger one because then um about six years later, his younger brother came to live with us. So my youngest brother and I are 18 years apart.

SPEAKER_05 5:54

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Um he could really be my son. Yeah, it's crazy to think about it like that. Um he's gonna be nine this summer. So so yeah, there was always a there was always a shift in focus, which I know is what I'm gonna get to today, um, and talking about my testimony, but always a shift in focus in my childhood, I feel. Um, and with me being the oldest, just trying to keep it all together for my younger siblings. Um, but I enjoyed my childhood. We did move around a lot due to my dad's job um working for the state, and so we'd lived down south for a little while, um, about three years, and then we came back up to Vysalia when I was in fourth grade. I went to four different elementary schools. So I did struggle with making friends. Yeah. I really did.

SPEAKER_06 6:46

How do you think that affected you when you look back on that? How do you think that affected you?

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Quite a lot. Quite a lot, because I had I had a really good friend um in kindergarten, preschool kindergarten, first grade, and then we had a move at the start of first grade. And it was different homes, it was different schools. Um, and I just became the shy kid because everything was so new to me, so really shy, really timid. I was outgoing at home. My sisters and I would be very vocal with each other. Yeah um but I found myself becoming an introvert and I didn't speak to my parents a lot either. Um I just kind of kept things to myself, and but I try to keep a attitude. Yeah, I don't think I realized it much then though, but yeah, I was.

SPEAKER_06 7:37

I was just because that is such a uh an important developmental age because first grade I think you're you're about six years old. I was six. Yeah, so that is so that is so young, and so from there you were already stuffing your feelings a lot.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Yes. I found out when I became the new kid, I kind of became the awkward kid. Nobody wanted to be my friend. Um I didn't understand why. I didn't know, and so I just kind of kept to myself. My now my sister, the one that's right under me, we're we're 16 and a half months apart. And she's quite bubbly and outgoing. So I'd want to go sneak next to her at recess. And she didn't want her big sister around. So I just kind of found myself doing what I could to pass the time. That even stuck with me into high school. I found myself taking lunches to my car and uh being by myself a lot.

SPEAKER_05 8:32

Oh that makes me sad.

SPEAKER_06 8:34

Just think Amber were sad. Were you like at what point did you begin to recognize that? Were you in the sixth and or I'm sorry, in the um first and second, and third and fourth grade, were you uh already very self-conscious and aware? I mean, you had to have been aware because you kept to yourself, but um did you be were you lonely? Were you sad? Did you cry? Did you normalize it?

SPEAKER_01 9:09

I think I normalized it. I I think I was almost too young to process what was going on. For sure, yeah. Um it wasn't till about fifth grade.

Bullying, Grief, And Family Stress

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Fifth grade was when things started getting heavy. We came back to Visalia. Um that was the year I also lost my grandma, which was my dad's mom. So in my life, that was the first big death um that I ever experienced. And so that weighed heavy on me, and I remember crying in my teacher's arms, um, returning back to school and just feeling alone. But in fifth grade, that's when um bullying also started, and I was a victim of that, and uh I was a target by one specific girl. And so that started in fifth grade, and I moved school is my sixth grade year, and sixth grade is a big year, yeah, lots of changes go on in kids' bodies in sixth grade too. Um, and so I was learning, trying to figure out who I was, um, and also trying to find some friends. I was a new kid at a newer school, but everybody already had their clicks, and I just kind of found myself alone again, and then once again being the target.

SPEAKER_06 10:21

So what did they bully you about?

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Um, they bullied me about being a good kid. Yeah. I was the teacher's pet, and so I got picked on a lot for that reason. But I always wanted to be a people pleaser, I always wanted to please my parents. Um and being the oldest kid, I wanted to be good a good role model for my siblings.

SPEAKER_06 10:42

So did you always did you assume that pressure as the oldest yourself or or do you feel like that was kind of I think we kind of say that to our kids also, right? Like you're the big sister, take care of, you know. Do you feel like that was part of it, or or do you I think b older children automatically feel a sense of responsibility as well.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:07

Like do have you thought about that very much?

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Yeah, I think I just wanted to be responsible. In my mind, I remember even being so young and just wanting to grow up. I just want to be an adult. I just want to grow up. So I had an urgency to grow up, but I regret it. Yeah, I greatly regret it. I wish I could go back and be a kid again. But um, like I mentioned, I was so shy and timid too, and so the kids bullied me for that as well. Because I knew I wouldn't speak up, I wouldn't talk back, I wouldn't tell on them. And so they got away with those kinds of things. Um I just remember being so sad at that point. Up until fifth and sixth grade, life was pretty okay. I could manage it. Um, but then that's when it really started hitting hard for me.

SPEAKER_06 11:52

Yeah. Were you sensitive when you look back? Were you highly sensitive, aware of a lot of things, aware of tone, surroundings, all of that stuff? Yes, I was. So it would have amplified because you were all of the effects of what you were going through would be amplified. Other kids may have just blown it off and you know, been different. Um so what happened in fifth and sixth grade, so you were bullied, but uh what changed for you, would you say? You said that was a real turning point for you.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Yeah, we came back to the valley after living down south in LA area for a bit. So now we were around family again, which was good, but I wasn't always close to my family. I would have to say it was probably just the new schools, a new school fifth grade, and then a new school again to sixth grade, and just trying to figure out where I fit. I didn't feel like I fit anywhere. Um, and then on top of that, the bullying aspects really affected me. I don't really remember much of my home life at that point. Um I will share though that growing up, and it started when I was in about third grade, um, I started to become more aware of my parents, their marriage problems. Um, and they were they were able to keep everything hidden from my sisters and I for the most part, but then they started opening the doors to some information that we probably shouldn't have known about. Um, and so that that weighed really heavy on me because I saw how much it broke my sisters and it broke me as well, but I wanted I wanted to still be there for them, for my sisters.

SPEAKER_06 13:45

Um you had a lot of denying your own. Did anyone notice?

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Oh, I'm sure they did. I'm sure they did, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 17:22

But they weren't coming to you. You did your sisters ask?

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Did probably to just come in and use the restroom, but yeah. And those moments, I mean, I know I've heard you say it before too, when when trauma hits in your life, you just the brain just blocks it out as you grow up. Yeah. And I feel like a lot of those again, thank you for tuning in.

SPEAKER_06 17:43

God bless.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

We are so glad you joined us. If you have a story of redemption or have worn the label of a backslider, we would love to hear from you. If you'd like to support our ministry, your donation will be tax deductible. Visit our website at the redeemedbackslider.org. We hope you will tune in for our kind of dealing with the same struggles.

High School Chaos And Feeling Unseen

SPEAKER_01 18:05

High school. I wanna I wanna be a good person, I wanna be happy, I want all the things, I want the friends. Um and so I do what I can. I do what I can to try to get into a good friend group, and I make a friend freshman year. Um, him and I become good friends, and sophomore year I start to hang out with his other group of friends. He was very social. I wasn't. Um I was trying to be though, but just so ti um timid and shy, it was really hard for me. But I finally made some friends with his friends, and they they accepted me into the group, um, but I was just kind of there. So that took place. Um and I stuck, I stuck with them sophomore year. Um and then junior year came around. And at the start of my junior year, that's when things started going downhill. Um around that summertime, my mother got a phone call that her brother, who lives in Washington, that his kids were going into the foster system. And I don't really know all the details, but I know that he asked my mom to take his kids um so they wouldn't go to anybody random. They were already living with a foster family.

SPEAKER_06 19:19

And so at this time you already had a little brother.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Yeah, um, I did. I had one of them, but one of them was there. Okay, one of them was born. So my cousins came to live with us, and it was a boy and a girl. The girl, she was the age of my brother. I think he was like five at that point. And then the boy, he was maybe seven or so. And um they they were not raised the way that I was raised. They had some I don't know what to call it, I don't want to say issues, but they had a lot of things to learn. A lot of things um just didn't make sense that they did.

SPEAKER_06 20:01

Yeah, I would I would guess if they were getting ready to be taken away, there was some instability going on at home. And so the kids were just probably very disorganized in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Yes. I believe they probably went through a lot of trauma before coming to us. Um so they came to us and they were a lot of work, rightfully so. They were a lot of work. Um, but what my parents didn't realize was that I was going through my own things too at that point. Um I did have my friend group at school and they were fun to hang around with, but there was one girl within our group uh that targeted me. I was always the victim somewhere, unfortunately. Um, but she played a lot of mind games with me. I thought we were friends, but it turns out she didn't see me that way. So I was really deceived by her friendship, and that just left left me feeling broken, um, feeling really hurt. She would say things to me that were not nice um and treat me certain ways, and so I was dealing with that, just feeling like I didn't really have anybody again, and then my parents were pouring into my cousins, and they needed to, they they needed that love. Um, and then with my other three siblings at home, it just felt like everything was out of control.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Yeah.

The Seed Of Anorexia And Control

SPEAKER_01 21:24

There was so much chaos in my life going on at that point, and I felt like I had no control over anything, and that's when um things started shifting in my life, and I felt, well, if there's one thing I can control, it would be food. And that's when I started taking um almost like a new obsession of controlling food because I was such a perfectionist and so type A, and I couldn't control any of these things going on, and I needed something to control because I was losing it.

SPEAKER_06 21:57

When you look back, Amber before the Food came into play. Is there other things that you were already trying to control? Like your looks, your hair, um, what you wore, how you kept your room, like were there other noticeable signs that you were really type A or very perfectionistic?

SPEAKER_01 22:23

I was I was very type A with all my schoolwork. I was always a straight A student, a very goody two shoes. Um, as for my attire as well, I always did what I could to take care of myself. I always wanted to look nice too. Um so I that was important to me, but I I didn't I didn't obtain this new level of obsession until it started with food. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:53

Do you um do you know where that came from? I mean, I know you're gonna get there where it ultimately came from, but do you remember like were kids talking? Was someone comparing you? Was this friend criticizing you or saying things to you? Like what triggered the thought? Because I believe all of those things come in a seed form. You know, what triggered that to where you thought, oh huh, I can control my food intake?

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Yeah, that's a very good question. Um, I remember being in elementary school, one of my sisters' friends asked her, Is your sister anorexic? Because I was so thin. So you heard the term for the first time. And I was always naturally thin. My sisters and I were always naturally pretty lean. Um, and I I asked my sister, I said, What's that? What's what what's anorexic? I've never heard that before. And she told me, she told me what it was, and that that's when the seed was planted. Um, and I do remember around now being in high school, I got into this show I was watching. Um, and one of the characters were was anorexic too. And she was she was a part of the main characters, and so her storyline was unfolding. And I was just comparing my life to her life. I just wanted my life to be good.

SPEAKER_06 24:22

And a sense of identification with someone, right? Something to fit, yeah.

unknown 24:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Yeah, so that's that's where it started from. That's where that seed was originally planted in my head when I became um when I was introduced to the idea.

SPEAKER_06 24:38

Yeah. I am just gonna get a give a parental plug here. Um I was raised that we weren't supposed to have television or go to the movies or any of those things growing up. Of course we did. Didn't never go to the movies, but we s we always had a television, um even though we weren't supposed to. But when I look back now and I hear stories like Amber's and and other stories like, you know, Michael, who was reading books about bank robbers, right? The seeds do get planted from someplace. And so parents, um you probably heard this. I'm definitely not trying to lecture, but what your kids watch with video games, and um today I left my grandson and my my child was letting him watch a Disney movie that had a ton of skeletons, and I just wanted to scream, you know, but they don't see it the way I see it. But you know, that imagery and the words that they hear and everything, kids are so impressionable. And if we don't know or pay attention to what they're watching and what is influencing them, those little seeds are going in. Yeah, and we do not know what is gonna take root, but things do take root, you know. I mean, you your story is such a great example, like just hearing the word was enough, you know. I I knew of another person who heard the word rape from a friend, you know, and had linked that to sexuality. And, you know, that just became its own little thing. That because kids are curious, they hear something for the first time, they don't know what it means. They're going to want to find out. And so I just think, gosh, we have to be so careful with our kids, you know, and your timidity and shyness, I'm sure that your mom and dad just thought, oh, that's your personality because all your grades were good, your behavior was good, you know, you were a goody two shoes, like you said. And so they had no reason to suspect that you were actually hurting inside. You know, most parents wouldn't. We would just normalize that as normal personality development. Yeah. So, okay, so junior high. So at the time you heard the word anorexic, did you look it up then, or did something in your memory come back in junior high or in your junior year?

SPEAKER_01 27:20

It stayed in my memory. It always did stay in my memory. Um, I didn't look it up, I just took my sister's word for it. But I wasn't yeah, but now I was more aware of models, um, different um the ways that stores promote their clothes um and the way that women look. I was aware of all that. And that seems right, like that seemed right. That's they seemed happy. Um socially acceptable. Yes. Yeah. Yes, yes. And I wish I could tell all the little girls it's such a lie. Yeah. Don't believe that. Yeah. Um, so that that stuck with me through um my junior year and then watching that show and being introduced to that again and seeing this girl's life in the show. Um, and with the chaos going on in my life, I just was that's that's where that started from was wanting to control something, and the idea of food came. And so

Starvation Routines And Hiding Pain

SPEAKER_01 28:22

that's where I started controlling my intake of food.

SPEAKER_06 28:25

So, what did that look like for you?

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Um, I I did do some research on it. I wanted, if I was gonna do it, I wanted to do it right. Yep. Um, and so I um I stopped eating a lot and I I told myself it was a mental game. I had to overcome, overcome the thoughts that my mind was gonna tell me, such as you're hungry. Um, I would chew ice to give my brain the the illusion to like psych it out thinking I was chewing food. I would chew ice.

SPEAKER_06 29:03

Um how did you know to do that? How did you know to play that mind trick with yourself?

SPEAKER_01 29:08

I think it was part of looking it up. I was part of looking it up, but knowing, I don't know, I guess I just knew my mind was going to try to fight me because it's not natural. I I I knew I could say I subconsciously knew or I consciously knew that this is not right.

SPEAKER_05 29:25

Yeah. Um, apparently the thoughts were gonna come.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

So I knew I needed to overcome them. Um, and I had already kind of been doing that with my emotions because depression was already evident in my life, but I didn't want anybody to know it. I didn't want anybody to know that I was feeling depressed and sad and lonely and that I'd spend a lot of time crying. So I already kept it hidden from my parents, and I would tell myself, you have to put a smile on, um, you have to act like nothing's wrong, and I would do the same at school too. So I knew how to mask things that I was going through very easily.

SPEAKER_06 30:03

And it never occurred to you that your parents loved you and that they would want to comfort you in your sorrow.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

I knew they did.

SPEAKER_06 30:14

I know, like we know, but there was nothing that said I can run to them and they wouldn't want me to be sad. You were already taking care of them instead of letting them take care of you.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Yeah. Um, I wish I had a relationship like that with them growing up. I do now, um, but growing up, my dad he worked graveyards a lot. So he was always sleeping during the day and then working at nighttime. So my dad wasn't around much of my childhood as much as I wish he was. Um, and then my mom, she stayed home a lot, and then she started substitute teaching when she would drop us off at school when we were a little bit older. But I I guess I was never taught to speak about my emotions. So I didn't know how to. Um, and then I kind of got to a point where I didn't want to.

SPEAKER_05 31:07

Yeah, right. Yeah. Wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

So so I would chew the ice, I would tell myself I wasn't hungry. Um, and when it came to like our family dinner time, I would cut up my pieces of food just to create an illusion like I had eaten it, just kind of shuffle it around my plate. Um I've seen that. I yeah, that's a big one. I would um at the start of the day, I would cut an apple into very thin slices, and I would just eat a slice here and there. And I got to the point where I would just eat that one apple every day. Um so those were some of the I guess you could say habits that I was trying to pick up on, I was trying to put into my everyday life.

SPEAKER_06 31:59

Was there when you started Amber, like when you decided you were going to implement this strategy? I I know it's obsession for sure, but but you had to rationalize it with yourself somewhere along the way. Were you did you have a goal in mind? Was there ever like an end game? I'm gonna lose this much weight, I'm gonna, you know, I know there's benchmarks on the body that people try to get to when they calorie restrict. Was there any of those benchmarks, or were you just overall thinking, I'm just gonna restrict?

SPEAKER_01 32:36

A little bit of both. I did start counting my calories too. I'd never done that before, so I'd like to downloaded an app on my phone and I was doing that. But because I was hardly eating anything, my calorie intake was already so low.

SPEAKER_06 32:49

Um that's 78 calories.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Oh you know.

SPEAKER_06 32:54

I did nutrition for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Um but I did start this goal with myself where when I'd wake up in the morning, first thing I would do is just lay on my back and I would just look at my stomach, and I wanted my hip bones to be higher than my stomach. I wanted my rib cage to stick out higher than my stomach. I basically wanted like my belly button to go to my spine. Like I wanted I wanted it to be so thin that I didn't have to suck in to feel like it was thin enough. Um, and I had already known that I was thin. I didn't need to lose weight. I shouldn't have. I didn't need to lose any weight. I was never a big kid. Um, I was always really lean, but that that kind of became my goal is just having my stomach down so low.

SPEAKER_06 33:46

Man, I have so many thoughts on that. Um skeletal really much it's so much really to just kind of look like a skeleton. Yeah. Do you remember thinking through, like, okay, now that you've gotten to that point, now what was there ever satisfaction in it, or was it just more and more and more obsession, more and more ways to be skinnier and skinnier?

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Yeah, it was more and more obsessive. Um, but the further along I went, actually the unhappier I was. Um, obviously there's a lot of health side effects where um brain fogs it comes and settles in, and so things weren't making sense anymore. I felt like I couldn't, I couldn't get a grasp on common things anymore because my brain wasn't functioning properly. Um at doing the slightest task, my heart felt like it was gonna jump out of my chest because my I wasn't feeding myself correctly. Um it was really hard for me to breathe. And that's That's so scary, Amber. Yeah, it was.

SPEAKER_06 35:00

Did you you could because you you very much could have died.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:05

What when did someone notice?

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Um my parents, they were actually pretty on it. So it's not like it even went for a year. Um, it lasted maybe, maybe half a year or so before my parents started really coming down on me about it. Um, and we actually did have a family friend that had gone through something very similar um recently. So my parents like that, the thought was also in their mind kind of too, because um they knew of their family friend that had gone through it. I didn't know the details of her story too much. Um so yeah, they they it was my mom who came to me and she had the conversation with me. And I remember her even bringing it up and saying, Do you want to be like that girl in the show you watched? Um and I I just didn't really say anything at all to her, but I know she told me that she wanted to take me somewhere to get me some help.

SPEAKER_05 36:08

And did she?

SPEAKER_01 36:10

She did. So she ended up taking me. Um this is now January of 2016, I believe January of 2016.

Diagnosis And Eating Disorder Treatment

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Winter break had just ended for my junior year, and I never went back. I never went back to my public high school. And my mom took me to my pediatrician at the time, and that's where he diagnosed me, saying I had depression, anxiety, and an eating disorder, um, anorexia, nervosa. And so I don't quite remember what he said he wanted me to do, but I know that he provided medication for the depression and anxiety. Um, but my mom took matters into her own hands of taking me to an eating disorder center to get help.

SPEAKER_06 36:54

Did it help?

SPEAKER_01 36:56

It did. Yeah. Okay. I did.

SPEAKER_06 36:58

What was the lowest you got down to?

SPEAKER_01 37:01

It was about it was about 105 pounds.

SPEAKER_06 37:06

And you're tall.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

Yeah, I'm about 5'7.

SPEAKER_06 37:09

Yeah, that would be very, very thin for you. Um, so talk about the obsession. Talk about what that looks like, what that felt like for someone that I I think a lot of people have obsessive thoughts or definitely intrusive thoughts. They may not always identify it. Um, but can you talk about what that was like for you?

SPEAKER_01 37:34

It was always on my mind. I I didn't go a moment not thinking about it because it was always on my mind. And I was very hyper aware of the way everybody was eating and what everybody was eating. It was always on my mind. Food was always on my mind, not me eating it, but about me not eating it. And um I would find ways to trick myself into thinking like people were eating for me, in a sense, and I started developing a lot of triggers in that way, um, where I would let the way other people ate make me not want to eat, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_06 38:15

Kind of, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

So for example, um, like if I saw someone going to get a plate of seconds, they already had their first round and now they're going back to get some more food, I would tell myself, I don't need to eat because they're getting a second plate. So like they're getting it for them. They're they're getting it for me in a sense. They're gonna eat for me.

SPEAKER_06 38:35

Yeah, constant rationale, but it but so irrational. Very, very, very irrational. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

So those obsessive thoughts, they were always in my mind, um, always, yeah, they wouldn't leave me. They wouldn't leave me, and I would I would do what I could to um to make sense of it to achieve that goal of not eating, and it would feel successful in the moment. There would be like that temporary happiness of okay, I completed one more day of not eating, um, or I lost one more pound, or my stomach is a little bit lower today. So I would feel like that temporary happiness of completing my goal, but then immediately I would feel defeated as if I'm not doing enough. I need to do more, I need to do more, I need to do more, I need to do more, and it just became so obsessive.

SPEAKER_06 39:31

When you look back, do you do you think like do you feel like there were voices talking to you? Not audible voices, but the thoughts constantly telling you stuff? Like, I I'll sometimes ask people, like, is it your voice? Are you arguing within your head? You know, a lot of times people are arguing in their head with who they think is themselves, arguing with themselves. It's really not themselves, or they wouldn't be arguing. Did you find that to be true for you, or was it just your mind was just busy and and just there was just always a thought, an unwanted thought?

SPEAKER_01 40:12

I believed every thought that came to my head.

SPEAKER_06 40:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

Um, and I think that goes back to even being young and just to the bowling. Um, people would tell me things about me, and I would just believe it. I would never speak up, I would never speak back. And so I um I believed all the thoughts that came to my head. So thoughts of of even not wanting to live, thoughts of feeling worthless, thoughts of not being good enough. And so I would do what I could to feel good enough. And if that meant not eating, then that's what I would do.

SPEAKER_06 40:49

It's its own little reward.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 40:51

Yeah, it's its own reward. Did you did you have thoughts of suicide?

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Mm-hmm. I did.

SPEAKER_06 40:58

Were they like this is gonna sound weird to people at home, but I'm just trying to quantify. So, like, did you have ideas of how you would want to do that, or or did you think I don't really want to die, but I also don't want to live? Because people people deal with that very differently the way they think about it. Some people don't want to die, but they also would be okay if they didn't wake up, and then others actively really think about just really wanting.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

I actively thought about wanting to die a lot. Um my dad owned a lot of guns, and so that thought came to my mind because I knew where they were. Um I went for many, many years doing the dishes. Whenever there was a knife in the sink, I thought, you know, what if I just leaned into the knife right now and just try to end my life that way. Um I would I would play around with my wrists a lot when I was younger too, in high school. So those those were the main ones that would come to mind. But yeah, I just I didn't want to it got so depressing to that point where I just I didn't want to live anymore. And then when the eating disorder came around, I think that was that was officially my goal, was that it would just take me away.

SPEAKER_06 42:21

And you knew that. So it seemed like an easier way. So you were suicidal before the eating disorder.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 42:29

Okay. And Amber, no one knew.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

No. No, I did actually ask my parents to go see a counselor. I think maybe middle school, maybe freshman year, and it wasn't it wasn't good. It wasn't beneficial. Um you went, but it was okay. Yeah, I think it was maybe eight sessions or something. Um, my dad's work insurance had covered it for us. But the woman that I was paired with, it I'm just I'm hopeful to say it was just not a right match. Um, but she did not help me at all. She just, in a sense, made me feel worse, yeah, which is kind of sad. Um, I was hoping to find a friend. I was hoping that somebody could encourage me, but she just sat across the table from me and just felt pity for me. And I told my dad, I don't want to go back. I don't want to go back to this lady. If and if counselors are this way, then I don't want to talk to anybody. Yeah. So I just I just kept it in.

SPEAKER_06 43:32

Yeah. Could you explain? Like, I I guess maybe I don't know what pity looks like. You know, how that is different than empathy. Do you can you explain what that felt like for you?

SPEAKER_01 43:48

Um, it made me feel embarrassed. Okay. It made me feel that's that's yeah. Yeah, it made me feel like what I was going through was not fixable. Okay. She just sat there. And was like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. Wow. You got a lot. You got a lot going on. And uh inside I was screaming, help me, right? Give me answers.

SPEAKER_06 44:12

We didn't want someone to just I don't want you to feel bad for me.

SPEAKER_01 44:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 44:16

Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, that's good. Because we, you know, I we I do hear that, you know, as therapists, we have a lot of power to hurt people inadvertently, of course, but but we can't just the wrong fit. Sometimes people are reaching out for the very first time. Yeah. And what they encounter, you know, um, yeah, it's a lot of pressure for a therapist. But we, you know, we just don't know. And I'm always glad when someone comes in that they try again, you know, that they're coming to me after someone else, and that they still trying to advocate for themselves and get the help that they need. And Lord knows, I'm sure there are people who've left my office and went somewhere else, you know. Um, but gosh, I pray, I pray that they're okay wherever they're at.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

Yes, I and I think it's important having a godly counselor. Yeah. And I know you are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:18

Well, I try to be. I do have some biases, and I I'm really, you know, I think everyone does, but um, I try to be really clear about that up front. Like what I will do, what I won't do, and stuff. Um so Amber, do you feel like the turning point for you with the anorexia um was going to counseling at the eating disorder place?

Recovery Tools And Separating Identity

SPEAKER_06 45:45

Did that start to turn around or did that just expose other things?

SPEAKER_01 45:50

I think a little bit of both, but mostly turnaround. It was seven days a week, so I had no day off. Okay. And we did everything together.

SPEAKER_06 46:02

So it was outpatient, yes. Like kind of what we would do for residential, but you you slept at home. Yes. Okay, good, good.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

Yeah. Um at that point when I first started going, I wasn't able to drive. I couldn't drive myself. I had no strength. Um, I had no business getting behind a wheel too. It's very dangerous. So my dad would drive me up every single morning. Um, and he dropped me off and then come back and pick me up in the evening. And our schedule there was eat, sessions, journal, repeat. Yeah. That's what we did the whole day.

SPEAKER_06 46:41

Yeah. Really get in touch with yourself. Yeah. So at what point did you recognize the spiritual aspect? Like, has that been in hindsight since you've come to know the Lord the way you have now? Or uh I'll let you just talk, you can tell us what your road to discovery.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

Yeah. I think a little bit of both, because as I mentioned, I wasn't super educated on my faith, on God, um, on the spiritual realm at all. But I did know that there were good spirits and bad spirits. I knew of that. Um, that was just kind of the thing I was aware of. I was aware of like demons. Um, and that's what I kind of called it was just like a demon, like an evil spirit. I didn't know it in the moment though. Um, it wasn't until after I have after I left the center did I have visions of this spirit. Um, and I actually saw it. And so one thing they they really push at the center is that you differentiate yourself from your eating disorder and from yourself.

SPEAKER_05 47:53

Um can you can you explain that for people at home?

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Yeah. So you are not your eating disorder. Right. You don't own it. Um, it does not own you. There's no association with it. Um, and they push that into us every single day. And that was really what helped me break off from it.

SPEAKER_02 48:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

And so that's when I was able to understand this is something separate. This is not me.

SPEAKER_06 48:20

Right. So for you guys at home, that's kind of how we do it with sin, right? We are not um like like we are more than just the sin we commit, right? We we are a soul, God loves us beyond we can repent and move away from all of that stuff. So it's good that you learned how to separate.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 48:44

You are not your behaviors, right? You are someone different than just just your behaviors.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

Yeah, and that's what really helped me see that it was something separate. Um, it wasn't until I think until really I started attending the lighthouse and I was more educated on the spiritual realm, did I realize it was a spirit um and and learning more about it, but having my dreams and um and just and even having um my poem here that I will read too, I was able to understand that this is this is something that's not me. And so I need to fight, fight it off. And um, because of the Lord and his strength, I was able to, yeah, but it did take it take some time. It did take some time for me to get free from it. But attending that center every single day and and having that schedule that I stuck to and having my eating plan, um, that's what that's what helped me break free from it.

SPEAKER_06 49:47

Did you struggle being at the center? Were you were you was your mindset changing that now you're gonna get better, or were you still really resistant to eating and resistant to you know having to eat?

SPEAKER_01 50:04

I wasn't resistant. Um, and I think as well because now, and I I know this might sound selfish, but now attention was on me. Um but let me explain.

SPEAKER_06 50:16

That's because But that was inadvertent.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

You didn't really know I didn't understand that at first. Right. I didn't understand that at first. Um But it was what you needed. It was what I needed. I felt as though I didn't have any attention on me. My parents had their problems, then they were trying to pour into my cousins that were now living with us, and then my younger siblings too. And I was having my problems at school with friends, and um, I was just feeling so overwhelmed and heavy with depression. I just wanted someone to see me, and I didn't I didn't feel seen at all. Yeah. Um, and so now that that had come about and my parents took notice, um, I still wanted to please them. And so when they took me to the center, I wanted to please them, I wanted to get better for them at first. Um, but then I turned it around, I turned it around and I wanted to get better for myself.

SPEAKER_06 51:12

And so when you look back, I mean, do you I I think about agreement a lot, agreeing with the lies that the enemy tells us, right? And you could see just listening to your story, the places you came into agreement with him until you finally kind of renounced it, even though you probably didn't use any of that language, but when you were able to separate that this was not me anymore, you were able to move away from it and say, I don't want it anymore in your own way, right?

SPEAKER_04 51:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 51:44

At what point did the dream come or the dreams when you were able to identify it as a demon, as a spirit, a spiritual attack?

SPEAKER_01 51:54

That was until after I left the center, actually.

SPEAKER_06 51:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 51:57

So I stayed at the center for about, it was actually about four months. Um, they wanted me to stay longer, but I wanted to be independent. I wanted to see if I could do it on my own without their help. And four months, seven days a week, that's a lot.

SPEAKER_05 52:15

That's a lot.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

That's a lot. I was 16 years old, I think, or 17. And so I was I was still trying to finish high school. Um, I was trying to get a job, and so I I kind of wanted to move on with my teenage years as well. I was ready to move to the house.

SPEAKER_06 52:30

Start to live, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:32

And um, there was only one girl there that was my age. The rest were a little bit older. Um, so I was ready to move on, and after I had left, that's when I had these, I had this dream. I had a vision, I had a vision. Um I wish I knew could remember the details of it, but I just know that I just put my vision to paper, and that's what that's what I recall drawing was this spirit that was in my mind and realizing that this is what my eating disorder is. Um and in my vision, that spirit, it's very skinny. It's very skinny. You can see the collarbones, yeah. Um, you can see the rib cage, you can see the very thin wrists, you can see the cuts on the wrist.

SPEAKER_06 53:24

Um, so I didn't get to let you read your poem, but when where did this poem come into play?

SPEAKER_01 53:33

So this was at the same time that I had my first vision. Okay. Um, so the it was it was right at the same time that I put pencil to paper and I sketched out my first vision of what the spirit really looked like.

SPEAKER_06 53:50

Okay. So right after you have this vision, you had a poem.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

I can't remember if it was before or after, but the dates are just within a few days of each other. So I'm not too sure which one came first or not, but it was all within the same week. The same week. And this was about a month after I left the center.

SPEAKER_06 54:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 54:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 54:12

All right.

Visions, Dreams, And The Poem

SPEAKER_06 54:13

What did you write?

SPEAKER_01 54:14

Okay, here we go. Um, I titled this poem It, IT, um, and caps, and that's the name that I gave the spirit.

SPEAKER_06 54:26

And I want to pause. You know, there's a movie called It.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 54:31

And it's exactly this. And they have made it to be something fun and exciting. But when I saw that movie, I was like, oh my gosh. You know, I just saw all the spiritual ramifications. So how interesting that you would title it it.

SPEAKER_01 54:47

It, yep. And also to add, it is not even deserving of a name. And so just keeping it as it because it's you didn't want to give it a name.

SPEAKER_06 54:57

No. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

Okay. This is how all went wrong, and it didn't take very long. I blindly followed along, but in the end I became strong. It started in the fall, and I immediately put up a wall. In the beginning, it was small, but little did I know that wasn't all. It gave me a sense of control. Then it took over my soul. I thought it had my back until I was close to a heart attack. It tricked me, it was killing me. I believed it was my best friend. Really, it was just bringing me to my end. But the odd thing is I wanted it. I know it's crazy, but I admit, I didn't want to quit. I didn't want us to split. I liked the change I saw. I thought there's nothing wrong at all. But it wasn't right. That's not how you live life. Barely breathing, heart slowly beating. My parents could no longer watch me fade. They didn't deserve the price I paid. I was never present the month of December. It caused me to be numb and not remember. Forced to receive treatment, I made a commitment. I started recovery for the ones I love. I was always the one they were proud of. I wanted to please them and not bring shame. Later on, I found out I was tired of playing this game. I was broken, I was hurt, I was lost, I was confused. I cried and cried because I didn't know what to do. I did want to get better. I wanted it for me. I wanted to be happy. I wanted to be free. I did whatever it took to gain proper health. I learned life lessons and achieved new stealth. It wasn't easy, and I was always scared. I thought no one ever cared. I was taught it made me think that way. I was told everything was going to be okay. Now I can see the light in my future shining bright. I'm going to be alright. I did win this fight. This is not the end. I have made the proper amend. I finally understand I'm not alone. It is no longer known.

SPEAKER_05 57:06

Wow, that's amazing, Amber.

SPEAKER_01 57:08

Thank you. Wow.

SPEAKER_05 57:11

Very talented.

SPEAKER_06 57:13

But such clarity.

SPEAKER_01 57:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 57:16

Yeah. And when you were writing that, it was representing the demon. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:22

Yep. Yep. It was representing my eating disorder.

SPEAKER_06 57:26

I find it interesting. You said it took over your soul. So there was there was a form of understanding there. You said it was your best friend. Like that, and I'm thinking, you know, the conversations that's taking place in your mind with all of this. Because it can't be your best friend if you're not communicating with it, right? And and we just so underestimate intrusive thoughts. Um, and you also said it us. You used the pronoun us, which can you see the enmeshment that took place? How much you begin to identify and merge with this. Yep. Did you use to cut yourself?

SPEAKER_01 58:20

Um or was that just in like my own kiddish version? Yeah. Um in my own, in my own way, I would take uh I wouldn't cut with a knife, but I would take safety pins and poke them into my veins and into my wrists. Um yeah, that's what I was doing when I was younger.

SPEAKER_06 58:43

The spirit behind it though is what you because it's all self-destructive. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:48

Yeah. So that's when so that vision came about and I put it to paper.

SPEAKER_06 58:53

And um what were you doing when that vision came?

SPEAKER_01 58:57

I don't recall. I don't recall, but I know it happened about a couple months after I left the center, and it was just a reminder that I felt like it was still there. And I was trying to pull myself away from that life and move on, but it was still present. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 59:17

So you fix the behaviors, but you didn't ultimately fix the route. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So so you have this, and then once you had the vision, then what? You probably didn't know what to do with it.

SPEAKER_04 59:33

No.

SPEAKER_06 59:33

You just became aware that this was what it was. How did that affect you? And how how did you what did you think about having a vision?

SPEAKER_01 59:43

Well, I knew it was scary. Um, I had I I had visions when I was younger as well. Um, the Lord had shown me some things. Um, I remember having some dreams growing up. I remember being able to see some things as a kid. It was it was always still a little bit scary because it's like, wow, what is that? Um, but I remember having specific dreams growing up. And so it wasn't it wasn't out of the ordinary to have this vision of this spirit, but now being able to see what was actually going on um after all those months, it was a little shocking. Um, and then a couple months later, then I had then I had a dream where um specifically the spirit was in my bedroom, um, laying on my bed. You can see my closet, and I never had clock my closet doors on. I don't even know why, but the closet doors weren't on. Um, but in my closet, I had the base of a drum set, and the spirit was sitting there on it, and it was just watching me. And I remember waking up with the phrase that it is still watching me and just feeling like although I left the center, although I'm doing my best to recover, and I was still taking my medication at the time too, and I was still trying to stick to my eating plan that I had and my diet that my dietitian gave me, that it was still controlling me.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:17

Yeah. Do you think it was controlling you, or do you think it was just present watching for a weakness?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:25

It was present watching for a weakness.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:28

Um did you were you having intrusive thoughts at that time that you were actively trying to fight off?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:36

Yes. Okay. Yeah. Because that's and that's what I learned at the center too, was fighting off those thoughts. So I had the tools um to fight it off, but it was still making itself very known.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:48

Yeah. And and when you look back at that now, what is your well what do you think about? I mean, what do you think God was doing in that? And what do you what why do you think you had all the dream and the vision and such?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:08

I feel like the Lord was showing me the spiritual aspect of things. Um, and after coming to the lighthouse, I quickly learned that there's a spirit behind everything. And I didn't realize it then.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:23

Um that's something you would have learned on your own, because we don't necessarily talk about that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:30

I mean, the Bible does, and I think we do in some ways, but we're not really overtly talking about spiritual warfare. Um so how did you I mean, Amber clearly God marked you at an early age for the spirit realm? I mean, I I personally believe that highly sensitive kids are way more sensitive to the spirit realm, clearly just because of their sensitivity. But I do feel like it's like a special mark if they pursue that or you know, God is pursuing them. But that was a very um uh what's the word I'm looking for? That was very insightful for you to understand there was a spirit behind everything. Do you know how you came to that conclusion?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:25

I don't. I don't, I'm sorry. I was like, just things that you knew. Yeah, right. Just understanding that that there's there's a spirit behind everything. My parents, um, they told me that before my sisters and I were even born, that they would have um these crazy prayer meetings and they would be in in each other's houses with their Bible study friends. They would have these these Bible studies where um things would start to manifest and they would cast them out. And um, so I knew I knew a little bit about that from their stories. Um and I knew things could, I knew spirits could cling to people and they could make our physical bodies do something that it wouldn't normally do. Um, so I had that knowledge there. Um, and then that's when I kind of pieced it together that there's a spirit behind this, it's not me, that there's there's a spiritual realm going on as well.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:23

So when you saw it and you knew that it was still there, what did you do about that? Like how did you handle that? What were your thoughts? What what came next for you?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:35

I wish I could remember. I wish I could remember all the details, but I feel like I just well not I feel, I know, I just pushed through. I just kept pushing through. Um it wasn't let me think, I believe that was 2017. Um,

Meeting Andres And Learning Deliverance

SPEAKER_01 1:04:53

and that's when I met my now husband, Andres, and um he he started to educate me a little bit. Um was he already at church? No, he wasn't. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:06

But he knew enough.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:08

Yeah, he did know enough. Um, and so it it was still very present in my life, the eating disorder and um me battling with it all and trying to overcome it. Um, I did what I could to just push it back, but he did start to educate me on a God who could deliver, on a God who could set free. And I believed it, I had hope in it, and that's what I wanted to see. Um, upon attending the lighthouse, I wasn't dealing with eating problems much anymore at all, but it was still the heaviness. It was and I could still feel, yeah, I could feel that spirit. I could feel that spirit of heaviness on me. Um, and I didn't want to be set free from that.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:55

I I have a questionnaire I give people in my office, and one of the questions is. Feeling as if something's watching you. And people circle that all the time because they can sense, you know, did after you did you feel like that before? Like, did you did you grow up feeling like something was watching you? Were you afraid of the dark? Were you um had to have your closet door shut at night? Like so many people do. So you probably already sensed something was there. You just didn't know until God gave you that dream. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:33

Yeah. But growing up, I always did feel that. I was very highly sensitive. Um, even walking into I I vividly remember the homes we lived in because they weren't ever new homes. People had always lived there before, but walking in, I could just sense something. Feel the difference. I could feel the difference. And even in each of the bedrooms, I could feel the difference. Um, yeah, and the Lord gave me, gave me those feelings, but not necessarily the knowledge on what it was. Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:03

You didn't know what any of it meant. You were just aware.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:06

Yeah, aware that something did not feel good. Yeah. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:10

Yeah. So when you look back now, Amber, like what spiritual gifts would you say that you were dealing with that God was trying to reveal, bring to the surface?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:24

I'm sorry, did you say what spiritual gifts?

SPEAKER_06 1:07:26

Yeah, like how do you think your spirituality, like what do you I'm trying to figure out how to say this? Because I I I know that most people don't want to talk about spiritual gifts and claim spiritual gifts because we all just try to walk humbly. But I feel like the Bible says the gifts and callings of God are without repentance. And so the more we identify how God makes us individually, the more confident we can walk in our identity in Him. And so the past always seems to make sense of things when we look back and we see what we were like growing up and what God was, why we were kind of targets. I know everyone is a target of the enemy, but some people are bigger targets, you know. Um, and I think it's because of who God created them to be.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:32

And the enemy is not dumb. The Bible says he stands before the throne of God day and night, accusing. So he knows who God is gonna use. He knows who God is, you know, what God is doing in people's lives. So I just wondered if if there's been any sense of understanding of why you went through all that, what that means for you today. Have you integrated it, or is it all just still very separate? Like this was one part of my life, this is a different part, and here I am, this is this part.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:08

I think it's all coming together. I think part of it has, I think some of it is still coming together. Um, I think the Lord allowed me to go through that to reveal his strength because I couldn't do it on my own. Um, and I couldn't make it through. And I even even in thinking about coming and talking to you today, too, thinking about everything that I went through, I didn't, I wish I would have known God the way I do now. I didn't, but he still had his hand on me. Yes, he did. And so for him to reveal his strength, and I was just in tears thinking about it too, all these, all the heartache I went through, all the pain, all the depression, um, that feeling of just alone, he still had his hand on me and he was still there and he still showed himself to me. He did it all for a reason. Um, in the end, it has definitely made me stronger. And my hope is that this story will help other people who are going through it too. Um being a teenager and dealing with those things, I'm I'm grateful, even though it was terrible. I'm grateful because my husband and I are in youth ministry now, and I can recognize those things. I can recognize that depression. Um, unlike my husband, he didn't he didn't go through a heavy depression at all like I did. He doesn't know what it feels like, he doesn't understand anxiety. Um, but I do. And so, and so just using my story to help others um and and discern those spirits when I see them upon people.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:46

Yeah. I was gonna say you're just perfectly situated for the ministry that you're in because I feel like the the enemy works best in secret, and people don't know. I mean, I've had so many kiddos tell me, oh, my brain is telling me this, and they really struggle to differentiate who they are versus the thoughts that they're having, like you. You know, we call that object relations. They they really struggle to separate, and so they believe that they're bad, they believe all the thoughts that are coming into their head just like you. So, you know, having gone through all of that stuff, you're you're well equipped to be able to help, you know, and the youth need it. I mean, I I am convinced that kiddos struggle with so many intrusive thoughts, they just don't know what to do with it, and they definitely don't know how to identify it as a spiritual attack. Yeah. Trying to plant seeds, you know, to get them to act out in behavior mechanisms. Um, I was gonna ask you something. Did you then go through deliverance? You said Andreas talked to you about a God that could deliver you. Did you go through like a, I don't want to say a formal deliverance, but actual deliverance prayer to get rid of that spirit of heaviness?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:15

Yeah. So coming out of the center, I wanted, I wanted to be free from everything, including my medication. So I cut off my medication, cold turkey. Um, and I had a little bit of a re-relapse, especially with my depression. Not necessarily with the eating disorder part, but with my depression. And so I got back on my antidepressants and they increased the dose. And then throughout that next year, I just I got a little drug tolerant to my antidepressants. And yeah, so the the dosage just kept getting increased. Um, and then in 2017, that's when I meet my now husband on dress, and he he's funny. He said, Um, don't I make you happy? Why do you need your antidepressants? But he didn't understand. He didn't, he'd never experienced depression before.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:13

Yeah, that's a great couples. Um that that's a really great question for couples because I think it's a lot of couples go through that. They really don't understand. And I think that's such an important conversation for couples' ministry, um, because it doesn't make sense to someone that does has never been through it. Yeah. It's not about you making someone happy, it's internal. It's your own self-worth.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:42

Yeah. So I got to educate him a little bit on depression.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:46

Um, and we we began attending the lighthouse. And um I I can back up a little bit actually. Before we started attending the lighthouse, we were, we were just dating. We met at work. Um, and we never talked about God. We never brought up going to church at all. I didn't even know he had a history of attending church. He knew that I would attend church sometimes, but we never went together.

Mission Trip Prompt And Church Shift

SPEAKER_01 1:14:16

Um, and on my way to work one early morning, I heard on the radio um a commercial for Viselia First Church here, Assemblies of God in Viselia. And they were advertising their mission trip to South Africa. And I felt the Spirit of God move into my car, and I felt just a piece and that thought come in my head of go, go to the mission. And I'd always wanted to go to a mission, um, do a mission trip. I thought that would be super awesome. I had all the money in my account to go. I could pay it on the spot because I'm a very big penny pincher, so I didn't spend my money. Um, and I told Andres about it and he didn't want me to. And I understand it's all the way on the other side of the world. He didn't want me to go to South Africa. Yeah. But I told him, No, I need to go. I want to do this.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:08

Um He told us he thought that when you came back, you wouldn't want to be with him anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:14

Oh.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:15

He was afraid he was gonna lose you.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:17

Oh. He um he was very worried too for my safety being all the way over there because if something happened, he couldn't come to me right away. So I understood. But his grandpa, being a man of God, um, he highly looked up to his grandpa, and his grandpa told him, You need to let her go. You need to let her go on this trip. Um, God will protect her, so you need to let her go and just trust that things are gonna work out. And um, Andres knew that when I came back, things would be different for us, um, that our relationship would look different and that we would start living differently. And I had told him about a month or so maybe prior to me going on this mission trip, um, I told him, I I I kind of want to work for a church. I think it'd be cool to maybe work for a church. And he was like, Yeah. But what he ended up telling me a lot later, um, maybe a year or two later, he said, I prayed for God to give me a woman that would want to be in church, that would want to work for a church, that would want to be in church. And when you said that, God told me, you know, this is the woman, he was like, God, right now, like, is this it? He told God, when you give me a woman that that wants to be in church, then I'll go back to church. And so when that happened, in his mind, he was having this battle with himself. I'm not ready to go back to church, I'm not ready to give up, you know, things in his life. So um we went, or I went on the mission trip, came back, um, and I told him, let's let's start going to church. And he said, Okay, we're gonna go to my church. And I said, You don't go to church. What are you talking about? We've been together for this long now, and you never mentioned anything. And um, he told me he was raised in um a church in Delano, the Delano Church, and um about 13 years old or so when he moved to Visalia, that he stopped going to church. He maybe came to like a Christmas service at the Pentecostal lighthouse or so, maybe Easter service, but it wasn't consistent. Whereas I was attending the assemblies of God at that time, and I told him, Let's go on Sunday. So we came to an agreement that he would come to my church and I would go to his church each Sunday. That only lasted like maybe two services or so, because when I came to the lighthouse, I realized, wow, this church has something different. Something different. I nothing against the assemblies of God church, but I knew that there was something else that my soul was seeking. Yeah, and I hadn't found it yet.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:02

Depth. It was depth.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:04

You were already very deep, yes, and and being sensitive too as well. When I came into the lighthouse, I felt the Spirit of God, and I had never felt it like that before. It was it was so dense, it was it was evident that the Lord was in that place and I didn't want to leave. And so we started attending the lighthouse um faithfully on Sundays, and um that's when Andres and I started getting into the conversation of me stopping my antidepressants.

Holy Ghost Freedom From Heaviness

SPEAKER_01 1:18:39

I was really scared, I didn't want to because when I stopped them, I relapsed and things got bad again, and uh my life was finally okay. Like I had a boyfriend and uh I I was having a job, I had a job, and things were okay for me. Yeah, um, I was finding a new purpose in life, attending this church. I could feel God now, and I I didn't want to stop taking them. But through prayer and um through his wisdom and educating me on the delivering power of God, I said, okay. So I told my parents I had the conversation with them, and they didn't want me to stop taking them either. But I understand, you know, you want you want your baby to be okay, you don't want to worry, you don't want them to relapse. They were helped. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:28

Yeah, and you're afraid, like, yeah, I get that.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:31

Yeah. And they didn't want to see me go and repeat everything that I had gone through that they had been through, because I know it hurt them too. And so I stopped taking them, and that next Sunday I got the Holy Ghost. Um I had been seeking the Holy Ghost, but I hadn't received it yet. And it was that week I stopped taking my antidepressants, and that Sunday the Lord filled me with his spirit um with the evidence of speaking in tongues, and I'm just so grateful for it. And I haven't had the need to take my antidepressants since that moment, really, things have been uphill regarding my my happiness. I had now I had the joy, I had the true joy. Right. So the true joy of the Lord.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:16

So do you feel that um getting the Holy Ghost was the deliverance from that spirit of heaviness? Because joy, joy is the opposite of that, right? So um, yeah, I I would agree with that. Deliverance doesn't always come with just the Holy Ghost, like you know, but for you it did.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:39

Yeah, for me it did. For me it did. Once I received, once I received the Holy Ghost, I was delivered from my depression and anxiety, and no intrusive thoughts have ever come back at all regarding anything I had been dealing with previously.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:55

Yeah, that's wonderful. Plus, you were already kind of surrendered, I think, to the Lord. The willingness to be surrendered by giving up your medication and and trusting the Lord to be able to deliver you from all of that. Yeah. I think that's huge. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, Amber, that's that's amazing. So

What Teens Struggle With Today

SPEAKER_06 1:21:20

what do you see now, like being in youth, being the youth minister, what what do you notice about the kiddos coming to church and what kids are going through today out there?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:34

I notice really everything that I went through. I see it, I see it all. Um I notice that the enemy really does attack the children. He really does come after our youth a lot. Um but they're our next generation, they're gonna be the ones leading the church. Yeah. And so I can understand his tactic and trying to get them down. But we have a lot of great youth with good head on their shoulders, and um, I'm grateful that really within this past year, my husband and I have been talking about it greatly that a lot of our youth are so hungry and that they've made up in their minds that they're living for the Lord. Yeah. But that still doesn't stop the fact that the enemy comes and attacks them. Yeah. Um, but I do see it in depression a lot, anxiety a lot. I that fear of stepping out and that fear of being bold and speaking, speaking against um speaking against the lies that are coming their way. They got a lot going on being teenagers. I mean, they're trying to figure out who they are too at the same time, sure, um, and developing a relationship with God. So it's um it's definitely our prayers that they stay covered, yeah, that they stay protected.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:55

Do you guys address those things in youth? Do you talk openly about the real issues that are coming against them? Depression, peer pressure, wanting a place to belong, all the sexual stuff that kids go through. Do you guys talk openly about that stuff?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:15

We do. We do have, we do have conversations, but I definitely, I definitely do want to advocate for more of it. Um, because it is really real. And I think even hearing it from each other, having them talk to each other about it. But it all starts with making a safe place. Yes, for sure. And so that's that's our goal of having we have our core, and I'm grateful that we have a lot of new visitors too. But I know when visitors come, it might be uncomfortable for the core to speak about those things. Yeah. So just making a safe place for them to feel welcome, that no matter what they're going through, that we'll be there to pray with them in the altar and we'll be there to guide them the best that we can and talk about these real issues.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:03

Well, I think, you know, you said it earlier. Um the enemy really attacks a person's identity and their self-worth. And from an early age, you were so aware of where you did not fit, or at least feeling as if you did not fit, right? And so giving a place of belonging to kids is so important. I think you guys do that really well.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:33

Thank you. Yeah, that's important to us.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:35

Yeah. I I think, like you said, safety has to come first. I notice, like with um relationships or even individual counseling, people don't begin to deal with their trauma of childhood until they feel safe. And sometimes therapy can be a safe place for them to start, but sometimes it's either when they get to safety in their relationship, all the memories begin to surface, or when they get on their own and they can make the a safe space for themselves, all the memories start to surface. So safety is such an important aspect for people to begin to heal. And being able to give that to them in youth group and then at church is is so profoundly important. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. Well, coming back to the question about what what do you think aside from being in youth ministry, like how does all of this make sense for you spiritually? So I see like our physical life, you're in ministry, you're married, you're raising children. What do you think it means for you spiritually? What do you how does God work with you spiritually? What do you what do you see him doing in your life spiritually?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:04

Lots of growing, lots of growing. Um us coming and at the end of 2018, we were just little babes in Christ, and 2019 happened. We were still kind of learning some things. Um 2020 was COVID shutdown, and we weren't moving forward at all. Him and I weren't, we just got married January 2020. The shutdown happened in March, and we weren't moving forward, so it's even safe to say we were backsliding at that point. Um and then 2021 came, and um, I think it was in 2022 is when we stepped into youth ministry, and I I was like, Lord, why us? I do not feel qualified for this. Um but I felt like I felt like I wasn't ready, but I was just trusting the Lord. And now being in 2026, these few years that have passed, I still at times feel like a babe in Christ. And uh, if I'm being honest, I tell myself, you're the youth pastor's wife. You should know a lot of these things, you should um be in tune with a lot of these things, and I'm grateful for the sensitivity I have, but I I also tell myself, but you're still learning for the rest of our lives. Yes, and then that's the beauty of having a relationship with God is that you're always learning. You can go every single day learning something new about Him. Um last summer with our revival services with Brother Logsden and then us going to North American Youth Congress, the Lord, the Lord shifted something in me. I felt a new depth take place and um and he

SPEAKER_06 1:28:00

spoke some things to me um and I am doing what I can to fulfill those things that he spoke to me so however however he wants to use me in those ways he spoke to me I will I will be open to it um but I feel like there's there's still a lot of learning taking place um as for now and like this current moment I'm going to use everything that he has given me to do his work so being sensitive to the spiritual realm and um whatever gift is needed for that moment that I would be active in it that I wouldn't be afraid anymore I'm not timid anymore I'm not shy anymore yeah um that I'm gonna be bold and I'm gonna be strong because it's him and I just want to glorify him yeah yeah I was gonna say because you you are not any you're you're very um bold is a good word but I was gonna say powerful like when you pray there is I'm gonna say authority with it you know there is it it is bold it is powerful when you sing it's powerful when you pray it's powerful it's it's how can I say this I don't want to say commanding but you know it's different and you know you know we we go to church together we watch people I I'm a big observer of people and um so when you see when you when you hear someone pray or when you see them seeing or when you see how they interact with people you know it of course we know that it's God right but the dichotomy from who you were to who you are now is is just so different you know and and of course that's God but I think that's who God has always created you to be yeah you know I think it's it's the wounds and the fear and whatever had plagued you from such an early age was trying to shape and change you to be different than who God had always created you to be which is what you're walking in now and we'll continue to grow in that yeah you know it as you as He allows us to go to those places.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:33

Yeah I agree. I spent so many years feeling so worthless and feeling so um just quiet and shy always you know but now I don't want to be that anymore. Now it's almost upsetting to think that I would even let myself get to that point. I don't want to do that anymore. Yeah I want to shout it from the rooftops.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:57

Yeah yeah um all for God so yeah and Amber there's um I'm glad you said what you said about oh I'm the youth pastor's wife I should know this you know that kind of transparency is so beneficial to people that attend church because in church culture there is this hierarchy that you know people tend to think others are better than them and I think the transparency of imposter syndrome sometimes hits everybody right and being able to just say that and being able to just be honest about you know hey I'm just just walking this out with God like the next person I think is is so nice and relatable yeah to the people that you serve you know and to the people that come to because then they could ask anything and not be afraid to ask and yeah it's good we just have such a good church. We do I think I say that often on this podcast but I do but I you know having gone to a lot of churches myself um and knowing what's out there it's it's not I I I'm just grateful for the authenticity of our church and our leadership and and the depth you know and I do say you know churches have personalities and there are very specific family oriented churches discipleship churches you know I I feel like personally just from an observational standpoint churches have personalities and and our church we just hunger for depth yeah we just hunger for presence and we pursue that yes you know in the Lord and um so that I think that's why we like it because we're kind of wired for that but I think about um and this might be a little far out there for those folks at home um I'm gonna have another conversation about this later but I think about the steps of possession and obsession oppression you know possession subjugation um and I I just just listening to you read that how enmeshed you were becoming with it is so scary. It's just so scary. And it happened so quickly too so yes because you like even as you were talking about it there was a moment that I could recognize where that switch flipped and you began to own it you you agreed with it you began to then actively bring it in to your life and yeah I I wished I can see this stuff really clearly with people but it's it's what's happening before this is behavior right this is the aftermath of the heartbreak that was taking place for all of that time before behavior began to get introduced because all the while while kiddos are feeling lonely and I think that that's one of the most pervasive emotions that kids feel um all of those thoughts are are taking place. There's this oh what if this what if that what if you do this what if you do that oh they don't like you see they're laughing all these little things that are taking place in the undercurrent that we never really identify kids don't identify it parents don't identify it and I don't really know how to get them to um because no one understands how big it is until it becomes a behavior like this right or a different kind of behavior violence acting out drug use impulsivity yeah well I can say Amber as a clinician but also as an adult with kids and grandkids I'm glad I'm glad that you had this experience that you are positioned to be in a place of a youth pastor um because you will see it like you said you can see it now you can see it easily on others and I I'm glad I'm glad that I'm glad you came through it but you're very well equipped for the role that you're in yeah now yes it all happened for a reason yeah yeah yeah I wish I could go back to my high school self sometimes but God obviously had his hand on me and I'm so grateful.

Advice For Strugglers And Parents

SPEAKER_01 1:36:20

Yeah I'm so grateful.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:22

So I always end with two questions and they are not applicable to you. So I'll end with a different two questions that are similar in nature um what would you say to the youth out there who might be hearing this or even an adult out there who is wrestling with an eating disorder or something else that gives them power because I I don't think we talked about the power we talk about control that it gave you um and control is a sense of power you know um and why we need that because we're powerless in so many other ways but um what would you say to that person who's struggling with some some form of eating disorder or other thing that they're trying to have control over.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:17

I would let them know that you're not your eating disorder or whatever else it is that you're dealing with you're not and you have to differentiate yourself from that and that you are fearfully and wonderfully made and you're made in the image of God and if God is perfect then that means you're perfect and believe that don't believe the lies that the enemy's telling you don't believe your your disorder that's trying to change you or whatever it may be.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:46

Yeah that's what I'm yeah the distortion of the image to me is such a such an important aspect to look at how the enemy really does try to um to change our image on the outside right and distort it to think that you want your bones to show that that very literally is so skeleton it represents death and that's what he you know he tells us that that's what looks good when actually you know it's the antithesis of health.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:20

Yep you know um what would you say to parents who have kids in elementary school junior high school high school what would you tell parents just in general just in general pay attention to well just in general um one word of of advice would be to pray for your children um because you don't know what they're facing every day in their school um pray for your children and may your prayers cover your children and protect them but I would say be on the lookout for um man well coming from someone like me who hid everything so so nicely it can be really challenging. But I would I would prov I would ask parents to provide a safe place for their children to open up conversations. Looking back at it I wish that that's something that I had in my household that I was able to come forward with my parents about the things I was dealing with privately first before before it kind of all spiraled out of control and it got really dark and heavy for me to bear. But providing a safe place to talk to them about things and parents they they know their kids best so being on the lookout for new behaviors um things that seem uncommon for them to do don't don't mistake their perfectionism for them being okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:54

Yeah and I want to just add that if you have a child who is caretaking everyone in the house like you were doing um that should just be a little red flag their children's jobs are to be kids to have fun be careless be carefree they don't have to worry about a ton of responsibility and um and maybe paying attention to that. Yeah. Because I I don't know if you would have had a safe place because you started this in the second and third grade that's so young that's six and seven years old. Yeah like I think you were just doing what you thought was right you know to love everybody else and being a sensitive person your heart would have been exploding with love for others because you felt everybody you noticed everybody you would have saw one little hurt feeling or someone you know crying and you would have naturally instinctively wanted to care for them. So some of that was just by design yeah that God created you to be sensitive I believe because you walk in the spirit now you know but um yeah you you came by so much of that naturally you probably would have told them you were okay. Yeah you're probably right but I know there were other things going on and maybe it would have yeah it could have helped and we never know I I think that we become who we become sometimes um because of and in spite of how we grow up right yes um and I think parents do the best they can with what they know at the time you know and I know that you know that and I certainly know that um I would I'm a parent and I look back at my son and I he you know there's so much I could have done different and wish I could have you know and I have to just surrender all of that to God. Yeah and so I always try to give that caveat because parents always beat themselves up we all do. One day you will yeah you know maybe not you guys are raising your kids.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:20

I think there's a lot of truth to what you said.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:22

Yeah it it's it's hard. We have an adversary and I think um it's easy to forget that sometimes you know especially when life is good. So um well I'm really grateful you're here and uh I I know I personally know a lot of people struggling with with anorexia and eating disorder bulimia whichever one that they use and um it's very hard to get people to understand that it is a spirit um so maybe a real life testimony someone that's walked through it will help you know so thank you for being open and honest and sharing

Closing And Ways To Connect

SPEAKER_06 1:43:08

thank you I hope this will bless someone and help someone see you through yeah um and so everyone that's listening thank you for joining um and as always if you wouldn't mind liking this and sharing it or commenting um it helps spread um the podcast on on YouTube that helps us a lot for new people who haven't heard it yet to maybe discover it. So um until we see you again thank you for tuning in.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:35

God bless we are so glad you joined us if you have a story of redemption or have worn the label of a backslider we would love to hear from you. If you'd like to support our ministry your donation will be tax deductible visit our website at Redeemedbackslider dot org. We hope you will tune in for our next episode