From Confusion to Conviction- Shawn McDonald #TRB Episode 57

He grew up in church, but the altar scared him, fitting in felt urgent, and “I’ll come back someday” sounded believable for a long time. Sean McDonald joins me to tell the story behind his return to Jesus and why the biggest obstacles were not just behaviors, but shame, identity, and the lies that keep people out of the building.

We talk about what it’s like being raised by a praying mom while your dad only shows up on the big holidays, and how that tension shapes a kid’s view of God and church. Sean shares how he drifted through the teen years, started drinking and smoking, and convinced himself he needed to get clean before he could walk through the doors again. We dig into how common that “fix yourself first” mindset is for prodigals and why it quietly delays healing.

Tune in for more from Shawn McDonald

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Sean

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider. With your host, Kathy Chastain, Christian-based psychotherapist and Redeemed Backslider. This podcast is dedicated to those who have wandered but are ready to return to the life-changing power of grace and the freedom found in Jesus.

SPEAKER_06 0:22

Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider. I'm your host, Kathy Chastain. I'm a Christian-based psychotherapist and I'm a redeemed backslider. With me in the studio today is Sean McDonald, who I have known many years, but never really sat down and talked with him in depth. But I know and love his family really uh well. Love them so much. And um he has recently made his journey back to the Lord. Um, so we're gonna jump into those details and hear about his life story. So uh thank you for being with us today. And um with that, Sean, welcome to the studio.

SPEAKER_03 1:01

Thank you, Kathy. I appreciate you having me in. I really do. Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 1:05

So the most I really know because I imagine you were around a lot when we were younger, but I I'm a few years older than you, probably several years older than you, and I don't remember a ton of things in the early years of you know, growing up in church.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:24

Um so I know that when your mom came in, how old were you and Shay when your mom so he's second generation Pentecost? His mom came in fair fairly later in life.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

Yeah, I want to say, and I should have asked her for the dates, but I want to say it was around 1980 when she came in to the lighthouse. And so you would have been three when she came in to the lighthouse. And my sister's got four years on me.

SPEAKER_06 1:53

So Okay, so Shay was seven.

SPEAKER_03 1:55

I I that's a ballpark. But I mean, from my perspective, I've never known anyone but my mom. You know, like if you talk to her, you know, there's there's two sides of her. There was before church or before the lighthouse and after. I've only known the latter.

SPEAKER_06 2:11

Yes, either owner as a Christian.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

Yeah, I never I don't recall the the old Renee.

SPEAKER_06 2:17

Yes, yes, yeah. So I you know, one thing about your guys' story, which I think is miraculous, you know, any any time the Lord saves someone, I think it's miraculous. Absolutely, especially because we know who we've been. But um, but with with your family and your mom coming in later in life, and then your dad not coming in until just a few years ago, yeah. I really wanted to hear about life for you because I don't know about those early years and being raised, what that looked like for you.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

So um it was I don't know, it was it was just my life, you know. Like I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 3:04

Did you did you did your mom bring you and and your sister to church always,

Growing Up With A Praying Mom

SPEAKER_06 3:10

or at what point was it optional for you not to come to church?

SPEAKER_03 3:15

Well, I mean, as a toddler and then into whatever, you know, adolescence, yeah. Um, you know, I was kind of I don't want to say made to come, but yeah, I was going to church, you know. My mom's taking me to church, taking my sister. Um, so that was that was just a regular thing, right? I'd go to Sunday school. I think it was Miss Davies who's one of my Sunday school teachers, and my mom at some point.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

Um, so that was really special. Um, but yeah, it just I grew up in there, but but I wasn't, you know, I I honestly I never even went to like I think maybe I went to one one youth service, maybe. You know, when I went, I would go to Sunday school and then uh children's church in the in the fellowship hall. Um I I remember puppet shows and coming from the kitchen now.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

Um so that was really cool. And growing up with the canes, you know, like they're I remember them sitting behind me in in children's church. Um, but and then I think my mom would bring me on like Sunday nights and and sometimes Wednesdays. Um, you know, my memory's real foggy from a lot of things. So I don't have the the best recollection, but I do remember, you know, growing up in that place um and receiving a strong foundation for sure. Right. Um that that is the my one big takeaway is you know I'm I'm thankful. I'm thankful that I had that foundation to to go through my life with.

SPEAKER_06 4:46

Yeah, because we always we always know where to go back to when times get tough. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:53

And uh yeah, I think we take it for granted as kids. But yeah, in our older adults, you know, I know I've been thankful to have been raised the way I was raised, and sounds like you have come to that.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

Yeah, you know, and it was it was difficult for me when I started getting older because you know, when I'm talking, I'm talking like early, you know, before I hit like teenagerhood. Um, you know, my dad wasn't he wouldn't he'd come on Christmas and Easter, you know, those were like the two holidays or the two times he would come to church.

SPEAKER_06 5:27

Um so there was always, you know, you knew dad wasn't coming, mom was coming. Yeah. So I imagine that would pose questions for a young kid.

SPEAKER_03 5:37

Sure, yeah. And you know, growing up, uh, you know, a boy, you know, watching my watching my parents, and um um, you know, I started one to be like I wanted to do good like boy things, you know, like it got to the point where I'm going to church on Sunday and I was just like, I just I just want to I want to sleep in and then I want to wake up and like ride my BMX bike or my skateboard and and go do boy things um or go with my dad uh check on his horses, you know. So there was I was kind of torn and and um you know there were many mornings that my mom was trying to wake me up out of bed and get me to get ready, and I just was dragging my feet. I didn't want to go. Yeah, I didn't want to go. Um, you know, again, I I looking back on it, knowing where I came from and having that foundation, I I wouldn't give it up for anything. Yeah, um, but at the time it was just like I wasn't invested in it. Like it was just that's what we did, you know. We just went to church and Sunday school and children's church, and I didn't do youth night thing, you know, maybe once or twice. I think I went to one church camp. We went to um Emma Wood State Beach and Vent like Ventura. Okay, and my mom's like, it's gonna be great, you know. We're going to the beach. I'm like, all right, let's go. It was the worst beach I've ever seen. It was horrible. It was like rocks, there was no sand, it was just miserable out there. So not a good experience.

unknown 7:01

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

But um, yeah, it was it was kind of difficult because I, you know, I was trying to figure out who I was.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 7:10

Right. And and honestly, you know, like I was a little kind of scared of church. Like I didn't understand what was happening down there at the altar. I didn't understand it at all. You know, even with my mom trying to explain it to me, like for me to wrap my head around it, it was very difficult. And it was scary. And that that that fear kind of like hung around for a while uh after I grew up and um even coming back, and it's like it was just I think because you know, I'm a I'm a guy,

When Church Felt Overwhelming

SPEAKER_03 7:40

you know, and I'm supposed to be strong and you know not show emotion. Um, and that's a very emotional place, that's a very emotional space, um, which I have come to absolutely love.

SPEAKER_06 7:51

Well, you are such an emotional guy to Sean.

SPEAKER_03 7:54

I am, and it drives me crazy.

SPEAKER_06 7:56

Oh, it's beautiful, and you know, it takes more strength to be emotional, it takes more strength for a man to cry than it does to be tough, you know. And watching you at church, I mean every time I've ever looked at you at church, you just have tears running down, running down your face. You know, I mean, I feel like you're just wired with that tender heart.

SPEAKER_03 8:21

I am, and my mom has always told me that. You have a very tender heart, Sean. She'd always tell me that.

SPEAKER_06 8:26

Yeah. Um but probably as a boy growing up, uh, that probably didn't feel so good for you and probably didn't always want that.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

No, no. I mean, I felt like I had to, you know, prove myself and and be tough and you know, um and cuss and you know, and all that stuff that boys do. And um, so yeah, I kind of felt a need to kind of push myself to be a man, yeah, you know, be a be a tough kid, um, although I never needed it. I've never once been in a fist fight. Not once. You know, I'm 40, I'll be 49 this month. I've never once thrown my hands at somebody.

SPEAKER_06 9:02

Well, let's hope you never have to.

SPEAKER_03 9:03

I don't feel the need to. Yeah, yeah, I'm glad.

SPEAKER_06 9:06

So can you talk a little bit about what was scary? I mean, apart, I'm I'm sensing that it was more than just the emotion of the altar. Was it the noise? Was it the speaking in tongues? Was it the exuberance of worship? Like, can you talk a little bit about how you observe that?

SPEAKER_03 9:28

And I can try. But yeah, I mean, I again not understanding it, you know, and I didn't get I didn't get the Holy Ghost until way down the line. Um, so growing up in that place, like, I didn't understand it. Um, and I and I don't know, I think the emotion of it all and the feeling in there, it it was it it didn't frighten me, but it was a little scary. Yeah, it was a bit overwhelming. It wasn't the noise, um, the speaking in tongues was you know bizarre at the time because I didn't again, I don't understand. I don't I don't know what's going on here, you know.

SPEAKER_06 10:03

Well, and the reason I'm asking is because this was all you knew. Like this was what you were raised in, this was common for you. Yeah, this was I mean, you didn't really have experience going to other churches to have something to compare

Wanting To Fit In

SPEAKER_06 10:20

it to. That's why I'm kind of drilling down into this because even in that, even in the familiarity of that, it was scary. And I I think that that's something to really consider and think about, not for you, but for us as um the church body. Um I've heard that before. I remember one time in in um, I think it must have been high school or right shortly after high school, we were having a prayer meeting at one of my friends' house, and none of the rest of her family was saved, but her parents were out of town. Her sister was out with friends, and so we were just all having like this prayer meeting at her house, and of course we were speaking in tongues, and her sister came home to that, and she thought something really weird was happening and it really scared her. Yeah, and that was the first time I'd ever heard of anyone kind of getting afraid by that exposure, yeah. So I just find it interesting, and I'm thinking my psychology brain is thinking about how your brain processes your personality and the observance of it all. You're very cautious and and um observant instead of just absorbing into that environment, yeah. Which is interesting to me, but yeah, but um, so I would assume that maybe that had something to do also with your just kind of not feeling it and not wanting to go anymore at whatever point you made that choice.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

Yeah, well, again, it just it just seemed strange to me. And you know, growing up, I you know, again, just wanted to be a boy. I wanted to go skateboarding. I'm hanging out with, you know, skateboarders and you know, and most of those kids either they didn't go to church or they were in Catholic church, you know, and like nobody I didn't hang out with anyone that went to a Pentecostal church.

SPEAKER_06 12:17

So there's no point of reference or identity or uh common ground.

SPEAKER_03 12:23

Yeah, and you you know, growing up, you're always kind of like super self-conscious, you know, like what do people think of me, you know? Like, and then you know, my mom, you know, you know, making me wear pants every single day, you know, to school. You know, I stood out, it's 105 degrees, and you know, I'm wearing jeans, you know, and people were like, Why are you wearing pants? How come you don't have shorts? Well, this is why, you know, like my mom, my mom won't let me, you know, yeah. Yeah, um so it it was it was difficult because I just wanted to be like I just wanted to be like everyone else, you know, and I didn't want to be weird or something, you know. I didn't want to be labeled something else, you know. I just wanted to be I wanted to be cool. Yeah, I wanted to be a skateboarder, and then I wanted to be a mountain biker, and then I wanted to be, you know, this. And um, so it was it was kind of hard to to grow up like that, and where you know, looking at my sister, like she just jumped in with both feet, you know, and never never even blinked an eye. Like it was just that's the way, and that's the way I'm going, you know, and I I love her to death. I can't, you know, like she's got so much strength to be so committed to that, yeah, you know, or I've committed to all kinds of things, you know. Like I've tried this, I've tried that, and I've tried this. She just jumped in and that's the way I'm going. And so I really admire that. Um, but I didn't have that. I I was just, I don't know, I was trying to just trying to be cool, trying to figure out who I am, you know.

SPEAKER_06 13:56

Well, I think all that sensitivity that you have, you are very aware, you know, whereas other kids, like we notice our friends, I was super aware too, because I always felt like I stood out and didn't want to stand out. Yeah. You know, like you said. Um but it's interesting to hear it come from a boy's perspective. Because we always think in Pentecost, boys don't have it as hard as girls. They get they they get to blend a lot easier than what the girls get to blend. Yeah. And so it's it's really interesting um that you felt that way, rightfully so, you know. I think a lot of I think a lot of kids do. Um but your sensitivity made you so aware of your differences and I think that need to just to just fit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:50

Yeah, was hard. It's hard to blend in when you stand out.

SPEAKER_06 14:53

Yeah, and no one wants that kind of negative attention.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

Well, you know, again, like you're always so so self-conscious as a as a child, you know, growing up. You you don't wanna, yeah, you don't want people pointing fingers at you and like, oh, there's that weird dude.

unknown 15:08

You know.

SPEAKER_03 15:09

So yeah, I just wanted to kind of blend in with everybody else and just be just be one of the guys.

SPEAKER_06 15:14

How old were you when um your mom said uh when you didn't have to go anymore? When she stopped making you go to church.

SPEAKER_03 15:23

Again, memory foggy, but you know, I remember I couldn't I was sneaking shorts to school in high school. Like, so I don't know if that was my freshman year.

SPEAKER_06 15:35

Um I'm so glad boys do it too, because I was sneaking pants and makeup and washing my face, you know, before I went home. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:43

That's so funny. I threw a pair of shorts in my backpack once in a while and changed in the locker room and then I wore shorts to school. You know, I probably had the the whitest legs in the whole school. Um, so yeah, that was something I don't know, that must have been freshman sophomore year. Freshman year, probably. So you were is when she stopped kind of like making me get out of bed and go to church.

SPEAKER_06 16:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:05

So over the time from stopping to go to church until now, how old are you now, Sean?

SPEAKER_03 16:10

I'm gonna be 49 this month.

SPEAKER_06 16:12

Okay. And then you you you've kind of been making your way back, I feel like over the last couple of years, right?

Marriage And Becoming A Dad

SPEAKER_03 16:20

Well, yeah, I have been. Um, you know, I've had a couple a couple rounds at it, actually. Um, so you know, growing up there and then disappearing and doing my own thing. And um but then really it was, you know, when when I got together with my my wife when we started dating. Um and then so we got married in 06, and she had two daughters when we got married, and Caitlin and Kennedy. And they were still um, they still had their dad in the picture, but he was he was not a good person, and he really didn't want anything to do with them, it seemed like just from my perspective as you know, dating their mom, you know, this guy really didn't want to do anything to do with these kids. So when we got married, he was still in the picture, but not really, like he wasn't coming around. So we ended up, you know, getting an attorney, and we we got him, we we terminated his rights, and I was able to adopt Caitlin and Kennedy. Yeah, so they're McDonald's.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Okay, wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 17:33

Yeah, it was awesome. So, but leading up to that, you know, it was such a struggle because I I think he just wanted a hold on on Carrie, my wife. Control. He just wanted that control, and he didn't want anything to do with the kids, he just wanted control. So man, I was I hadn't been in church. I mean, maybe in and out, like maybe like my dad, like, oh, it's Christmas, I'll go to church, you know. Like make my mom happy, yeah. But then, you know, I I and you you shouldn't be making deals with anyone, you know, and especially like I don't know. I look back on like, what are you doing trying to make a deal with God? You know, like, but I pr I was praying, I was like, Jesus, just please, like, and I didn't have a relationship with him at all, yeah, really. I he's always been in my life, but I've never had a relationship with him. So, but I was I remember praying to him, God, if you if you give me these children, I'll bring them to you. And then it happened. I'm like, get out of here, man. Like, this is crazy.

SPEAKER_06 18:31

How old were they, Sean, when when you guys when you got them?

SPEAKER_03 18:35

So Caitlin was born in 2000. I think I adopted them in 2008, I think. And Kennedy was oh one. So I th I don't know, what are they, nine or ten?

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:48

When I finally adopted them. And then yeah, and then we kind of started going to church a bit, and they ended up getting baptized and getting the Holy Ghost themselves before me.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 19:01

You know, so that was really cool that like, you know, like he he freed them up so I could bring them into the lighthouse, you know. Um but myself I wasn't, you know, I was trying, I think. I was trying to do what I thought I should do.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

Right.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

But not not uh I wasn't I wasn't in with both feet.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:24

Um and then and then we had Callie in 2010. Um and then then I think we picked up the church thing a little bit more. I remember being at church a lot with Callie when she was little and she's crying, so I take her out and get her quiet outside and then bring her back in. Um and then I had a jade. I had my again, my memory is so bad. Um I got baptized for the first time, I think in like 2011 or 2012. I don't even recall.

SPEAKER_06 20:00

For the first time.

SPEAKER_03 20:01

Yeah. Yeah. Cause I I mean, you know, when growing up, it was a it was a choice. Like my mom wasn't gonna go make me get baptized, you know.

SPEAKER_06 20:09

Of course.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

Yeah, it's a personal decision, right? Yeah. So I just never I decided not to. I I never made the decision to until you know Callie was born and we were going to church more, and I'm like, okay, you know, like Carrie was in, you know, she was trying to trying to conform, if you will, you know, like she's trying to wear skirts and no makeup, and you know, she was trying really hard, and so I was trying hard. And again, I just it I wasn't in it like I needed to be. I think I was just trying. I was trying to be in it.

SPEAKER_06 20:45

Because you thought that was the right thing to do.

SPEAKER_03 20:47

I knew it was the right thing to do. I've always known it, like in the back of my mind, God's always He's always been with me. Like He's He's saved me from so many hairy situations. And looking back, I'm like, oh yeah, that was Him. Yeah guaranteed, you know, like He's been in every corner of my life. Um, so I've always known that I needed to be in that place. I needed to be in a relationship with him. I just never really gave it my all until the last like three years.

SPEAKER_06 21:16

Yeah. So what

Why He Stayed Halfway In

SPEAKER_06 21:20

I I mean, I don't know. I guess I want to hear where the pitfalls were. You know. Sure. I mean, you said I just didn't really understand. It just really wasn't, you know, kind of made me afraid. I didn't know if that had changed over time and and what the struggles were of life with as you've grown up, as you've seen your sister move into ministry and like, you know, just your observations standing at the periphery and entering in here and there, you know, like what do you think the biggest What's different from then to now and and what you went through then versus where you're at now?

SPEAKER_03 22:09

I think the I don't know. I mean I've always been proud of my sister and and my mom and my dad.

SPEAKER_06 22:17

And not trying to compare, but you know, you and your dad wasn't going to church, and your mom and your sister were going to church. And I would think that that in and of itself, you'd be uh, you know, you would have observations about that, you'd have feelings about that, good or bad. I don't know. I'm asking.

SPEAKER_03 22:35

Yeah, no, always I've always been proud of you know my mom and my sister and and their wholeheartedness in seeking him, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:43

Um well they're the real deal for sure.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_06 22:46

So, you know, they don't just go to church to show up and punch the clock, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

Right. Um, and I just I just never I I wasn't I don't know, I just never I think what changed is there was like a big breaking point, and maybe we can get to it down the line, but there was like this strike of conviction on my heart um that really snapped me out of like where I was. Um but yeah, same. I think I I think growing up and watching my sister and my mom and and then me trying to figure myself out, I I think I I just had to figure it out for myself, you know. Like I I wanted to see what the world had to offer, kind of I guess, you know, um figure out who I am.

SPEAKER_06 23:31

Um chasing, and chasing might be a strong word, but were you working towards a direction? Were you just having fun? Were you was was dating and being single and then getting married um difficult to think about doing that in church, or was like, you know, we all have those motivators that cause us to stay away longer than than perhaps what we should. What do you think it was for

A Resource For Intrusive Thoughts

SPEAKER_06 24:04

you? Hey everyone, I wanted to tell you about a new resource. I recently wrote a book, a children's book, called Where Did That Come From? It's about intrusive thoughts. And if you're an adult, you know that you have intrusive thoughts, and children have intrusive thoughts, but they don't have the cognitive ability to understand them like we do as adults, but they really, really affect kids. And so I wanted to write a children's book that adults could use to help the children in their life, whether it's a Sunday school teacher, a pastor, a parent, um, a school counselor, a school teacher, or even other therapist. I wanted to create a resource that allows us to talk to kids about the thoughts that they're having, but also teach kids how they can overcome those thoughts. Um, this is a Christian-based book, so the solution is going to be a Christian-based solution. But I I'm not trying to sell a ton of books. That's not the purpose for me writing the book. The purpose is to create a resource that we could use to help more children. And so again, it's called Where Did That Come From. And you can find it on Amazon, and there is a link attached below. So I hope you'll get that. I hope it helps and hope it would be a valuable resource to you. Thank you.

The Lie That Kept Him Out

SPEAKER_03 25:28

That that what that kept me away?

SPEAKER_06 25:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:31

Um, well, you know, the devil lies a lot and he and he gets in your ear a lot. And I remember, you know, I I've I've I started smoking cigarettes when I was, you know, I think a junior in high school. I started smoking weed in when I was a sophomore and started drinking probably around that same time. Um and you know, I carried that on for years.

SPEAKER_06 25:59

But um Was it the feeling that you'd have to give that up if you came back? Some people struggle with that idea.

SPEAKER_03 26:07

The thought or the the voice that was in my head is like, well, you know, you don't want to be a hypocrite and come into going to church, you know. You get yourself clean, you know, or clean. I wasn't ever like strung out or anything, but you know, you need to stop drinking, you know, you need to stop smoking weed, and then you know, then you then you can go to church, right? Right, which is such a lie.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

Is such a lie, and I can't believe I fell for it for so long.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

Because it took him, it took him to help me.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:36

Um, it took him to get me. I mean, he's the one that struck me, and uh, you know, I set down beer and all that like three years ago.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

Um, and I'm super stoked. I'm super happy.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:50

And maybe we can get into that later, like what it is, what it felt like, or what it feels like. So but yeah, you know, just like living, just living in the world, you know, doing doing what I wanted to do, and then getting married and having kids, and then doing what they wanted to do, and you know, they were into dance and rodeo and all this stuff, so we're just busy. We're doing stuff, yeah, you know, and um just living living life. Yeah and you know, dabbling with church, coming back once in a while, yeah here and there. Um longer stents at sometimes, but um yeah, I guess uh again, I just never jumped in, you know, to really feel the waters out. I was just kind of always at always had the lighthouse like at arm's length, you know. Yeah, just like you know, this is cool, you know, and I I I kind of get it, you know, and I feel something here, and that's what was scary, is you know, I'm trying to be a tough guy or a tough boy and um not be so sensitive, but I knew something was happening in that place, like I I could feel it, um, which is interesting because now it's like man, I need I want to go to church, you know, like I want to go back because I man, I love I love the people in that house, I love the feeling in that house. I you know, I love Jesus, like he's he has changed me. Yeah, he has changed me.

SPEAKER_06 28:08

Yeah, and I'm not trying to get into the deets the details to expose um you know uh a life that but I I ask these questions because as prodigals there are so many obstacles that people go through in order to come back to the Lord, in order to just wipe the slate clean and give themselves permission to try again, you know? And so when I started this podcast, the sole reason was I wanted to have dialogue about the obstacles that people face in just in just starting that conversation with God, yeah, you know, because I was a prodigal and I I was in and out and back and forth. Always I love God like you. You you know, God was always there, yeah. But church always represented something different to me. Um, as what I'm hearing you say, I feel like it was representing something different from you. God was this one thing, and or maybe you put God and the church together, as I did for many years. Um and so uh I like to ask because I think that everyone has a different reason that they don't come, everyone has a different reason why they left, and and um it's not about you know, drinking or sex or crime or any of that. It's it's more about the way our brains process things and our heart feels about things and and the things we think, and like you said, the lies that the enemy tells us, you know, it's like the the people that say, Oh, you know, I gotta lose weight before I can go back to the gym. Kind of totally defeats the purpose, but can't tell you how many times I've heard that over my lifetime, you know, and it's the same with church. So I just I don't always get to talk to a lot of guys. I mean, we've had a lot of prodigals come home that are guys, their life looked very different from yours. Yeah, you you've maintained your sense of self to some degree, even if you were struggling with your own identity and such. You held down a job, you had a family, you never went all the way over you know, the edge, like some of them have done. And so um, and for them, their their reasons for leaving and and the life they lived is it just looks very different from yours. So I was really interested in you know what what it felt like having two parents, one that went and one that didn't. And then now, of course, your dad has gotten the Holy Ghost and and come in and God has just done, I mean, your mother waited for so long for that. Yep, you know, so I never really sit down and talk too much.

SPEAKER_03 31:33

And for me too, she's been praying her butt off for me too.

SPEAKER_06 31:36

Right, you know, yeah. I mean, because you do want your

Feeling Fine While Drifting From God

SPEAKER_06 31:40

family to worship with you in the house of the Lord. For sure.

SPEAKER_03 31:43

And so Yeah, thinking about it just at the table, you know, I said I've always kept the lighthouse, I had kept them kind of at arm's distance, but I at the same time, you know, like I've got one hand holding on to him, you know, and the other hand like pushing away, you know, like because I didn't ever want to like I didn't ever want to let like be separated from him, but but I was, I mean, I I I was doing my own thing and I was living my own life, and I wasn't I wasn't always thinking about God or praying or anything like that.

SPEAKER_06 32:17

Yeah, so you did you did you think that because for a long time in my life I didn't know that God cared about some of the things that I have learned now he does actually care about. I just would talk to him and pray. I knew he was listening, he would talk back. You know, there I had a lot of moments with him throughout those years I was away where uh ignorantly because I didn't know my Bible, I thought him and I were okay. I didn't realize um I didn't always realize that we weren't okay. I knew fornication was wrong, I knew drinking was wrong, yeah, you know, um, and I and I used to pray that the Lord would never come back when I was in sin, you know. Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:08

No, I had that feeling as well.

SPEAKER_06 33:10

But I always thought that him and I were gonna be okay, you know, and it's just his grace that he's brought me back now. Right. But I wonder if it was the same for you that you had this sense that you guys were okay, and yes, you weren't doing okay, but you maybe felt like you had time.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

Yeah, no, I think that's a I think that's a good way of putting it. Yeah, like um, I always thought we were okay, and I you know, we uh we justify things and oh, well, yeah, you know, I'm doing stuff and it's not you know it's not that bad, you know. I'm not at least I'm not you know doing this or at least I'm not doing that. Um but yeah, I um yeah, I always had one hand on them. I just thought things would, you know, I I kind of I think I always thought I was gonna come back around, you know, someday. Yeah someday when I'm ready, I'll come back around, you know. When I'm done, you know, exploring whatever I'm exploring, you know, I'll I'll make my way back. And and yeah, like you, I'm like like some nights like crossing my fingers, like, man, I hope you don't come back now. Right. Don't don't come back tomorrow, you know, like um and really like knowing that I needed to get right, but but then not doing it, you know, yeah, not doing anything about it. Um but again, like you said, like I always kind of kind of thought we were okay, you know, and that and that I would find him someday. Um but yeah, he again he's always been with me, but I've I haven't always recognized him, you know, until looking back, I'm like, well man, yeah, dude's been with me the whole time.

SPEAKER_06 34:49

Yeah, and and for the people out there, if there is anyone that's you know, grown up in church and walked away and you haven't made your way back, um I think that that is a real misconception that there's gonna be time. Right. And it's the grace of God that that we've had time and wherever you're living, we are all living in that grace. Um but what I didn't know then, that I understand now because I've read my Bible and I have learned more about what obedience means, and I want to really be clear obedience to his word. Um because so many of us think that obedience to church culture, you know, it's obedience to him and his word, and you know, hopefully they all line up. And um, but but the obedience piece is huge. I never really understood free will like I do now. And and I think you know, that scripture where where um I can't I think it was Paul that said, if I make my bed in hell, he is there. Like the Lord never leaves us nor forsakes us, but he will let us have our free choice, our our free will, and he will allow us to do what we choose. And just because we feel his presence does not mean that we're saved. And I look back now and think I was so uh deceived in what I thought was okay and where I thought I was, and that I thought, you know, that I was saved, yeah, you know, until I I had an experience and taught me in the moment I if I if if it was my time I would not have made it. And so I just you know, not to be over dramatic for anybody listening, but that is a lie that the enemy does tell us. Sure. And we do justify a lot of things, and um, you don't have to take my word for it. If you just read the Bible, I think I say it on every podcast. Read the Bible, read the Bible, read the Bible, because it is it is the only thing that we can really you know plant our flag in and sink our teeth in to know what God, what

Growing Takes Time Like A Bonsai

SPEAKER_06 37:30

obedience to him looks like, you know.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

Yeah, and he's he's he's still working on me. Like all of us, yeah. I mean I did I did uh I equate it to this. I did um like bonsai, like Japanese bonsai. I I studied it and I worked with them for like a decade. I was a member of a uh group that did them and we showed them, um, went to conventions and stuff like that. But the thing is with them is they're never done. Like they're always growing, so you always have to prune them and you always have to shape them, and and then you can show them, and then you know, in two weeks they they're growing again. You gotta prune them, you gotta shape them. I'm never gonna be done. You know, he's always got work to do. I've always got work to do on me, but he's always gonna be working on me. Um I got I got a ways to go. I still I kind of feel like an infant, you know, like you know, I'm I'm kind of three years into like really like like I'm here now, you know, like you're panted. I'm here, like, and I'm I have no plan. I have not even the thought in my mind to turn away and go back to where I was before. Um I I kind of just lit the match and threw it on that bridge that was behind me because I never want to I never want to go back to it. Like I never want to go back to you know drinking and partying and you know being away from my family, being away from God. I mean, I I feel I since coming back to him in the last three years, like like this weight has completely lifted off of my shoulders. Like for the longest time, I you know, I carried a lot of weight, you know, with my my family, with my job, my career, um, trying to be trying to be a McDonald's. I mean, we're my mom worked hard her whole career, my dad they both still work hard, and you know, look how look at their age. I mean, my sister works her butt off. I've been working hard for a long time, and so I've always showed I felt like I shouldered a lot, and you know, that caused issues in other places of my in of my life. Um, but since coming back, man, he has lifted so much weight off of me, and I just I feel like a different person. And I, you know, I never Well, I imagine that you are. I never understood that either because like when I when I came back like three years ago, and you know, I was talking with Carrie. I remember I was going back to work from lunch, and I'm talking to him like, you know, like I know I'm supposed to like I know I kind of feel different, but I'm still me. Like I'm still Sean, you know, this this person that I've created my whole life. Like I'm still me, but um, you know, I'm different.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

And I couldn't figure it out, I couldn't even describe it. Um, and I don't know if I can now, but I just feel different.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

Um, I feel so much, so much better about myself, about my relationships. Um, you know, I've and part of like my stumbling when I when we came back, you know, after Callie was born and I got baptized and uh for the first time, um I always had my the same group of friends like in that I would that I was hanging out with. Um I you know, I hunted a lot. Like I was I years ago I decided I wanted to go like start dev hunting. So and don't worry, I consumed everything that I ever shot and killed. I don't just kill for fun. Um, but I had this group of friends, and you know, they're they're good guys. They were like me. Like they didn't, you know, they didn't rob banks, you know, like they they were they were good guys. Um but they they weren't leading me where I needed to go. They kept they were keeping me from from discovering who God created me to be. Yeah, you know, they were they were comfortable holding me, you know, not captive, but keeping me fed with beer and you know, good times, and so they could, I think, you know, like and in in my departure from them, like my best friend at the time, when I kind of made this break from them, I was like, bro, like didn't you see how miserable I was in with my life? Like I was a I was kind of a miserable person. He's like, Yeah, you know, I just thought maybe you'd, you know, you'd snap out or something. I'm like, dude, if you're really my friend, I wish you would have said something to me. Yeah, like I noticed that you are awfully miserable, you know, like you're drinking a lot, you know, you're not very happy, you know. Maybe you should figure that out. Yeah, you know, they never did that, you know. So I don't blame them, right? Right. I made my own choices.

SPEAKER_06 42:05

You just realized that you were gonna stay stuck there.

SPEAKER_03 42:08

Yeah, because the first go-around, like, I mean, I just went right back. I tried to quit drinking, you know, and again, I was never like a full-blown alcoholic, you know. Like I would drink on the weekends. Uh, it got more intense as time went on, but um that, you know, oh, you know, Jesus drank wine, it's okay. Right. You know, like have a beer, Sean. I'm like, okay, you know, and then that that was it, you know. Um, but there was when I got when I the reason it's interesting that I went back to those guys because when I got baptized the first time, it was Brother Grant. Was it Brother Grant that uh evangelist that came? And man, he's he struck something in me. And I I was thinking about one of my one of my friends, and I was again wanting people to like me. Like, why am I I was sitting at church, he's talking, I'm thinking, why do I put so much weight in what this one person thinks of me? Like, why? Like, he's never done anything really for me. Like, and like I wrestled with that during Brother Grant's sermon, and I was like, you know what? I need to get baptized, like I need to wash away all the stuff that I've done, and you know, start start over, and that's what led to my first baptism. But then I I man, I just went, I kind of just went right back to it after that.

SPEAKER_06 43:32

Yeah, well, we do what we know, yeah, right? You you didn't know any different yet, and so we all do what we know, and a lot of us do stay in those environments because, like you said, you're in transition, you don't you're growing, you don't really know what the next steps are supposed to be. Yeah. Even growing up in church, we don't really know that because what wounded us is still there, our need to fit in. Is still there. We get saved, we get the Holy Ghost, we get baptized. We got to figure out who we are with that. Right.

SPEAKER_03 44:07

And I'm I'm working on that. You know, he's working on that. I keep I one of my prayers is man, just look help me to see your vision of me, your pathway. Like help me. I need to know like what I'm doing here. You know, like because we all have a purpose, right? Yeah. He's got us here for a reason. Um, so you know, I'm just trying to figure it out because you know, I don't hear his voice all that often. I mean, I I I I get these inklings like, you know, like I need to go talk to that dude over there that, you know, is sitting with his sign outside Save Mart and just like see if I can help him, you know, like so and I'll sit down with him and I'll end up praying with him, you know, and getting him, you know, do you need water or something? You need some food? And and I, you know, so I try to I try and I've always tried to be a good guy, right? Um, but now it just feels right, like I'm gonna go sit down and talk with this dude. And I've called, I've texted Carrie, like, sorry, I'm still at the store, you know, like I'm talking to my this dude, Brad, you know, like I'll be home soon. Um but it just feels good to be able to talk to people and encourage them um about what what God's done for me.

SPEAKER_04 45:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:17

Um, and I really enjoy that. So I, you know, maybe that's maybe that's my calling, you know. I don't know. Like we've done homeless outreach a couple times, and man, that felt really good too. Yeah, just to go meet with these people and and try and bring them a little a little love, yeah, uh, a little encouragement, you know, and something to look forward to. Yeah, you know. Um, so that feels

Friends That Kept Him Stuck

SPEAKER_03 45:40

good, but again, I I don't know. I just feel like there's more. There's something, yeah, there's something I'm missing, you know. I'm a mus I've play the saxophone I had since fifth grade. Am I supposed to be in the church band? Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 45:51

Like Well, we don't have a saxophone player.

SPEAKER_03 45:54

Yeah, you do. Who is it? Um somebody was just up there the other day playing an alto sax.

SPEAKER_06 46:01

Um, I must have missed church that day. I don't miss very often.

SPEAKER_03 46:05

But yeah, I'm just I'm just trying to figure out my my pass where where I where I fall into all this. Um and God'll make it clear.

SPEAKER_06 46:14

He will.

SPEAKER_03 46:15

He will. He's gonna show me.

SPEAKER_06 46:16

You're a lover. I mean, you know, it there are I mean there are people who really love people. Jeremy's one of them. I think you are one of them. There's when you see people that really love other people that will take the time, that will sit on the curb and visit and ask names and get to know like that's a really special assignment, I think.

SPEAKER_03 46:44

Yeah, well, and I mean, I don't know if we can my dad's a he my dad has always had such a huge heart. I mean, I worked for him for I think it was like eight years. I worked with Kelly, my brother-in-law. I worked with Pastor. Um I mean, they saw me, you know, smoking and chewing tobacco on the job site and all this stuff.

SPEAKER_06 47:04

But um and I bet no one thought a thing about it.

SPEAKER_03 47:08

Well, yeah. But my dad has always had this huge heart. Like he I would he would hire people that you know didn't even have a home. Like, like, you need a job? All right, come work for me. You know, like he's always had this enormous heart, he's always been willing to help people. And I mean, I think that's one of the things that's been passed down is like that's what I tell people at my job. Like, I I came here because I I think I can help. Yeah, I want to help this place be better, you know. So um, anybody that's ever asked me for help, I I try to be there for them. Yeah, um, so maybe that's my calling. I don't know. I'm still I'm still figuring it out.

SPEAKER_06 47:43

The Lord will reveal it.

SPEAKER_03 47:45

Again, I still feel just so young in it, you know. I'm really like three years, like that's that's nothing, you know. Yeah, but it feels this that's home. Yeah, that that church is my home. It feels wonderful to be there. Um again, and and I love where pastors taking it. Yeah, I mean Bishop was amazing. My growing up, listening to Bishop, yeah, um, but we're we're pastors, you know, shifting things and and really going a not a different direction, but he's you know, I watched his podcast with you, you know, and you know, inviting these people in, like I could have used that when I was wrestling with, well, you just need to put put the beers down, Sean, and then you can go to church, you know. Yeah, Jeremy would have been at the front door, like, bro, get in here, man. You know, like and I love that, and uh, I think that is that is something that is needed. Like, people need to understand that you don't have to be fixed to come. You right you come there to be fixed. And if you think about it, if you really step back, like everybody in that church has got a story. Everybody's got a story, you know? Yeah, and some are some are crazier than others, but they're all there, and they're they're all there for the same reason because because God is good, yeah, you know, and He's He does save and He does heal, and um it's it's such an amazing place. I am so thankful for my church. You know, I've gone in a couple other churches, um, not to worship for like a wedding or something like that, and like I ain't nothing here, you know, like uh it's pretty, but you know, there's a feeling in that place that I know is real.

SPEAKER_06 49:21

Yeah. So yeah. So what do you think the catalyst

Finding Purpose Through Helping People

SPEAKER_06 49:25

was three years ago? I think you said there was a catalyst, and if you don't want to talk about it, you don't have to, but you said there was a there was a turning point for you that caused you to maybe get more serious about it.

SPEAKER_03 49:39

Yeah. Um, well, it was it was my wake-up call. I mean, the way I think about it, um God was using my wife to slap me in the face, and it helped me realize like I just had this voice in my head, like, what are you doing, man? Um, so for you know, married kids, you know, um COVID, you know, drinking more and more and then doing whatever I wanted to go do. I spent a lot of time away from the house, you know, with with buddies, and we were going on fishing trips and hunting trips and camping trips. And I mean, I wanted to be, you know, I wanted to be a professional hunter and do like a podcast and a show, and you know, and but and so that the devil twists everything. Like you go into something with with these intentions, like I'm passionate about this, I want to do this, I think I would be good at this. But then it, you know, little by little, he twists it, and then it's like then it's just the it's a drinking trip, you know. So, and then, you know, I've I've struggled with things over the years, um, with pornography, um, as so many do. Um, and you know objectifying women, and to the point where, you know, the the catalyst, the the explosion, if you will, is you know, we came back from a trip, my my wife and I and our and Cali, and um my wife kind of called me out on on me scoping out this girl on our trip. And at first I was like, what are you talking about? Like fully gaslight, like you don't know what you're talking about. I wasn't, you know. And then it was like boom, I just felt like I got an uppercut. And I'm like, yeah, I was. I was totally like checking her out, and and that just like opened up these floodgates that remained open for for probably six months or more of just like coming out with, you know, you know, I was you know, I would buy things and not tell my wife about it, you know. I would in I think I was getting like some dopamine hits from all kinds of stuff from pornography, from buying things, from from hiding things, you know. And it was stupid. It was like I I would buy like a case of shotgun shells, which I was gonna use. She knows I hunt, and and I like I hid it, I threw it in the garage, you know, like hide it from her. Like, was I ashamed that I was spending money, or I just didn't want her to spend money? I don't know. Like, I don't I haven't unpacked all of it, you know, but so much transpired in those six or eight months or so um of just kind of coming clean. And you know, my wife, I love my wife to death. She she is so patient with me. And um, I mean, somebody else would have left, you know. And I never I never cheated on my wife physically, but I know I know that you know, viewing women it is adultery, you know. So I I am guilty of that. And um and that was a hard thing to come to grips with. Um and then, you know, part of it was breaking off my past with my old friends and stopping all the things that I was doing and trying to start fresh, start over. Um so my wife really stood by my side, really helped me understand like some of the the reasons why I did some things. Um so bless her heart, she's just absolutely amazing. Yeah, um she truly is. And so since then, yeah, really like reinvesting myself in my family and in Christ, um and just trying to start, was trying to start over and do it the right way. Like looking back, I just said it the other night with the family, like we were playing this game with my mom, my sister, and Kelly and Lauren and my dad and Joe and Carol, and uh I was like, what what what is one thing that you would tell your previous self if you could go back? And I thought about it and I was like, don't be selfish with with your time. And um, yeah, stop being so selfish with your time. Like I look back at all the partying that I did and the drinking and the trips that I went on, and yeah, yeah, it was fun to catch that fish or shoot those birds, but like it was such a waste of time, Kathy. I just feel like it was such a such a waste of time. I could have been doing all of what I've been doing for three years, uh, you know, enjoying like doubling down, enjoying time with my my wife and my kids, and and enjoying my church and and you know, just being blessed. I've been blessed my whole life, but I just feel like I'm just under attack with blessing lately. You know, yeah. God is just so good. Um, you know, and he's he blessed me from the get-go with my wife, you know. I didn't one thing if I could tell anybody out there that is not married, that's looking to be married, man, boy, find yourself a partner that believes in Christ. Like has a foundation, at least at the bare minimum, in Christianity. And you and and I think that'll go a long way.

SPEAKER_04 54:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:58

Um, I'm so thankful. I look back, so thankful I didn't have to convince my wife that Christ is real.

SPEAKER_04 55:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:04

You know, yeah. I feel bad for some people that really have to struggle with, like, you know, I believe in Christ, but my my wife doesn't, or my husband doesn't, you know, like I feel that's that's gotta be hard.

SPEAKER_02 55:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:15

So I'm so thankful that that my wife is a believer. I don't have to convince her of anything, and that she's um been so helpful to me um and accepting me for who I am and helping me through my struggles. Yeah, forgiving me, you know. Though I did so many things wrong in my marriage, um, you know, talking negatively about my wife to my buddies, you know, trying to be funny or whatever it was.

SPEAKER_06 55:41

Um just I feel I think so many men do that, not really realizing how dishonoring that is. Right. And um and and what a difference it would make to just be different than that, right? The very thing you never wanted to be is the very thing that probably would have made such a difference to just stand up for her and say, Man, yeah, I don't know what you guys have at home, but I'm pretty happy.

SPEAKER_03 56:08

Yeah, you know, right, instead of just being a follower, wanting to be liked or whatever, still worried about my my identity.

SPEAKER_06 56:15

Yeah, I mean, I I think Sean, some of that's just the human condition until we find our place. I think that's the way a lot of people operate. Yeah, you know, the need for acceptance. Yeah. Um, and even when we find our place, we still have a large need for acceptance. Yeah, you know, I mean I do. I I that's always on my radar within my own life, I think about a lot. Yeah. Um and what a what a wonderful testimony for all the years you guys have been married, just hit 20 years then.

SPEAKER_03 56:50

We'll be 20 years in September.

SPEAKER_06 56:52

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 56:53

A lot of people don't make it.

SPEAKER_03 56:55

Right. Well, I mean, there are plenty of times where, you know, she could have left, or, you know, if I would have done something stupid, I would have left, you know. Um, but God really held us together. And you know, it's interesting because I I kind of like when we got married, I kind of knew like, you know, or I kind of thought like, God, God put us together for a reason. You know, like I had that in the back of my head. God, God put us together for a reason. Kathy, it's it's different than knowing. Like now, like I'm like, I know that he created her for me. I know it. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 57:26

That's huge.

SPEAKER_03 57:28

Just to know that he had me in mind when he created her, and vice versa. So, I mean, we complement each other so well.

SPEAKER_01 57:37

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 57:38

Um, I just I love it. I've never been so close to someone. Um, but yeah, that that catalyst point, like Carrie and I were, you know, going through some stuff, and like there was one evening where like things were kind of like it was tensions weren't high. We were kind of like, okay, let's just um maybe we should let's let's have a drink. You know, we hadn't had a drink for for a while when we were dealing with stuff, and I was like, okay, you know, so I poured us a drink a piece, and I I had I think two or three sips off of I turned into, you know, I went from like IPA beer to like, well, I'm just gonna drink vodkatonics now. You know, I was drinking a vodka tonic or two every single day. I had a vodkatonic, and I had two or three sips off of it, Kathy. And I felt, I felt um like this this separation. I just felt like I was being pulled away from my wife. Where we had just we had spent so much time trying to close that gap, trying to, trying to fix things and find each other. And it just, I felt that, like being pulled away. I upended that glass and I said, that is not that's not what I want anymore. Um, for a long time I was using that to like disassociate from from work or stress or whatever. And that well, that was my comfort, right? Like I was gonna wash that away and then I'm gonna hang out with the wife, I'm gonna hang out with the kids. But that's what that's what God did. One of the things that He's done for me is to see that and it was it was yeah, it wasn't just like this physical. I felt like I was like floating away from her. I'm like, no, wait a minute, hold on, dump that out, and I haven't looked back after that. Like

Confession That Sparked Real Change

SPEAKER_03 59:20

I'm done with that stuff.

SPEAKER_06 59:21

The thing that is wonderful about that is that you recognized it, and then you did something about it. You acted on that right away. A lot of people have had similar experiences and then dismissed them. Oh, that was just my imagination. Yeah, right. Oh, that didn't really happen. I just I was just thinking about something else, but you knew you trusted it, you acted on it, and it became life-changing for you.

SPEAKER_03 59:50

Absolutely, absolutely. I never want to go back to it. Never. I have no desire to be that person anymore. Yeah, and I'm so thankful.

SPEAKER_06 59:57

And Sean, you know, I know it's easy for all of us to look back at our life and have regrets and time wasted. But um what do you think about God's timing? I mean, he could have done that for you at any point in your life. Yeah, right. He did it then.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:17

Well, and I think, you know, looking at it now from you know, from my perspective, you know, that's that's a testimony that I was missing, right? Like, like I had so many opportunities, I I tried so hard to screw things up um with my my myself, with my with my marriage, you know, um, that I wouldn't be able to talk to somebody and say, dude, like I've I even talked to some people at work, like they say something, you know, maybe kind of negative about their wife. I'm like, don't ever forget that she chose you for a reason, and you chose her for a reason. So you may want to check yourself, dude. You know, like try to remind people that you know, you know, God lines things up. And so, yeah, to your point, you know, I wouldn't have the story I have had it happened when I was 13. Yeah, you know, had I gotten baptized in the Holy Ghost at 13 and I just I did that thing, I wouldn't have I wouldn't have this ammunition that I have now to help people, you know, like like the dude at the curb, you know, with the sign, you know, like, you know, oh, you know, like I make sure like you I don't want you buying beer with this money. Like, I'm gonna give you five bucks and you better use it to buy something good to eat, you know. Like so, um, yeah, I wouldn't have a testimony, I don't think. Yeah, you know, had I not done the things that I did and looking back and going, well, that was not right, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:49

And I I wanna speak to that because I have I have come to realize that everyone has a testimony. Your sister, I think, hers is so strong and she never left the faith. But her influence to the people she influences is her testimony, right? Right, your influence in your domain is why your testimony is probably what it is, right? The people that I will influence, I get to use my testimony with, but but my point is that everyone has influence somewhere, and so some people don't need our kind of story to be influential to help people grow in their walk with God, you know. And um, but you your testimony is going to be for the crowd, the group that God places you in. And I don't know, I have seen God bring everything full circle. So whatever, and I I don't want to get in trouble here with your wife or anything with uh your hunting stuff, but I don't think that that was in vain. I don't think your passion for all that is in vain. Down the road, God may bring all of that back together full circle and allow you to use that for ministry in some way, shape, or form. Yeah, he may balance. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:19

Where it's not pulling you away from family, but a way to maybe incorporate family and ministry with that kind of passion because maybe he will, and you know, and I'll leave that up to him because you know I set it all down.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:33

Um, you know, and that's the right move.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:36

Yeah, I mean, I disconnected from everything that was like trying to distract me. Okay, so that's something else I've noticed, you know, in my you know, 48 years here. Like this world is so full of distractions, um, and everything's a distraction. Um, again, you know, like pornography, like, you know, and that is everywhere. Like, you you there's billboards, like you drive through a big city, and it's like, why does that need to be up there? You know, like there's so many things trying to grab your attention, yeah, and trying to steer you a different way. And like, I just you know, I loved to go hunting, but um it pulled you away. It did, it did. It turned me, it took it, it went down a weird road, and I don't I didn't like where that was taking me. And um, so yeah, if he wants to bring it back, cool. But yeah, you know, like I'm not looking to get back into it like anytime really. I would love to go shoot a pig and then go cook it and eat it and stuff and share it with my family, but um, I don't need to to be happy, yeah. Right, like my my wife and and my church and my kids, they they bring me happiness, you know. I don't need to go look for it, I don't need to buy something to make me happy. Right, I don't need to go do something by myself to make me happy, you know. Like I do that with my wife, you know. Like we're it's our 20th anniversary, and I'm proud of myself. So I'm not always the best listener, uh or I I don't have the best memory, but something back you she said to me years ago, um, I surprised her. I said, So for our 20th, I want to take you in a hot air balloon. Oh wow, we're gonna go in a hot air balloon, and she I I'm excited. I'm excited, but um, yeah, so I'm excited to share that with her. Yeah, right. So neither one of us has done it. Um, so we're experiencing all these things, you know, together and trying to search out adventure together and you know, praying together is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:30

That's wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:31

You know, verse of the day every morning before I go to work, we could crack the phone open and try and do the verse of the day or a cup of coffee and nice and just yeah. And then I can't wait for the evening. I can't wait to come home. I come home for lunch for my my hour break and spend it with my wife. You know, and then I go back to work, where other times I would have just like, I'm just gonna stay at work, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:50

Yeah, you're building with her.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:52

Yeah, that's wonderful. For sure, for sure. So so you feel like you're still in transition. This three years, you know, coming back, kind of finding your footing and what life is going to look like for you moving forward.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:10

Well, just wondering what my path is. Like what's he got in store for me? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:14

You know, like because you have really walked away from everything, it sounds like. Oh yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:20

Yeah. And so I'm just interested where he's going to take me. For now, I mean, I just, you know, I I go to to work, I try and minister to guys at work. Like, you know, I'll I'll tell people that I'm I'm praying for them, you know, if they're sick or if they're, you know, doctor's appointment and oh, I got this heart condition or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:37

You know, they may be a different faith than I am, and I know they are, some of them. But I'm like, man, I'll pray for you. I'll keep you in my prayers, you know. Um, I've had a couple guys come to me, hey man, my kid's going in for surgery, you know. Like, would yeah, I'd love to pray for your daughter, you know, like absolutely. I'll I'll put that on my list, you know, for until until after the surgery's done, you know. Um, so

Rebuilding Marriage And Cutting Distractions

SPEAKER_03 1:07:00

I I'm trying to find those opportunities to share, you know, God's goodness with people.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:08

What was it like for you seeing your dad come amazing in? Because you because you're has it been five years or six for your dad now? I'm bad. I'm bad. My memory's so bad. Yeah, I'm gathering that. Sorry for all the details. Um, but he came before you, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:28

Um, yeah, yeah. Um so this last go-round, this th last three years, yeah, he's been in there for a number of years before I kind of came back in.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:36

For the people at home, mom has been praying for her husband, his Sean's dad, for I think she said 40 years.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:46

Something like that, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:47

A long, long time. And um, in the last, I I want to say six years, five or six years, he came in, got baptized, got the Holy Ghost.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:59

Um, were you there that night?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:02

Do you remember how you know I got the news that your dad I believe my mom called me and and told me, you know, so I wasn't I wasn't there, but were you surprised? Um I don't think I was, I don't know if I was surprised. I was happy, I was stoked for him. I was really genuinely excited. Um maybe a little surprised, like, well, really, that's cool. But you know, I God what God wants families back together, you know, like He wants to bind our families together. And um, you know, I don't know if I want to say I saw it coming, you know, but it's inevitable again, you know, like it the the the draw is so powerful to to that church in particular that I've noticed. Um but yeah, I was just so happy, so happy, so excited for him to to make that shift because that's big. I mean, like for me, I I grew up in that church, right? You know, so I kind of had this foundation, I had this, you know, to build off of again, knowing in the back of my head, you know, God's always with me and but never really talking to but for my dad, it's just like I don't know, he just made this big old U-turn and came right in the front door, you know. Like I don't know. It I don't know how to describe it, but it's so cool. I'm excited to it's wonderful to sit down next to my dad and to pray with my father. It's it's very powerful, it's very, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:28

Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:29

Yeah, yeah. Because I look up to the guy, you know, like he's a he's a powerful dude. Like he's he's again super helpful, been successful, you know, he's just a good guy, and um this is like the best thing for him. Yeah, right? Like this is gonna make him like even even better, you know. So I I was excited when he came. Yeah, and it's exciting to sit with him and pray with him.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:55

Yeah, to be able to go to church with I mean, you guys all sit like on one, two rows together, you know. It's it's gotta feel you know, like my family, y'all be in there. It just it's heartwarming. It feels like you can breathe and there's unity there.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:13

Yeah, yeah. I do a lot

Seeing His Dad Come To Faith

SPEAKER_03 1:10:15

of thankful praying, you know. Yeah, like thank you, thank you, mom. Yeah, my mom, you know, she was the the she was that torch, you know, in the darkness and and always praying for everybody, and then you know, here we all are, you know. So I'm I have a lot of thanks to give to him.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:33

Well, I remember Sean when you got re-baptized. Was that three years ago?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:39

Yeah, it was like August of 23.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:41

Okay, I remember that.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:43

Had you then like, did you right away make the decision, I'm in it, I'm here to win it, or was that gradual too? You definitely laid down the alcohol. Yeah, I heard you, but yeah, go ahead, read your.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:57

No, well, yeah, I had the date somewhere. It was like August 12th or something like that, August 13th. Um but yeah, that was kind of shortly after, you know, what I refer to as the slap in the face by by my lord. Um, yeah, it was August 13th, 2023. Um, when I got baptized. And when we started kind of going through things with my wife and I, that catalyst moment, that was towards the that was the end of July. So, I mean, once that kicked off, I was just like, man, that again, like that voice, like, what are you doing, man? What have you been doing?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:34

And and it was like this light bulb went off. Like, I have no idea. Like, I know, I know where I need to be. Yeah, I know what I need to do, I know where I need to be. Um, just do it. Yeah, like stop wasting time, man. Like, what so that when when we were there there that night, I think I can't remember who I asked. I think I asked my mom. I was like, can I get baptized again? She's like, Yeah, sure. I'm like, all right, let's do this, you know. I because I wanted to again, I I just I feel I kind of feel bad that the first time was like, I, you know, I I I backslid, you know, like I I was trying to do right, you know, and then I kind of like fell away. But this time I was like, you know, I'm I want to make it right. Yeah, I want to do it right this time, yeah, you know. So um that's kind of my plan.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:25

And so from that moment on, you just you knew that you were committed. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, you know, listening for his voice, and you know, there was one occasion where Carrie and I were were working through some things, um, and we were sitting out front together, and man, I mean, audible, loudest, loud and clear. She swears she heard it. I swear I heard it, but it was we were talking, we were real close to each other, and I I heard this voice that said, It's it's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:01

And I was like, Did you hear that? She's like, I think I heard that. Like he was speaking to both of us, and this was kind of early on in the after the catalyst, you know. Um, that and I and I hold him to that, you know, like he told me.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:15

He told me, yeah, this is gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:18

I'm holding you to that. Like, I know I heard that. Yeah, and it wasn't me saying it, you know. So that's that's the one instant that I know the instance that I mean, that was him. Yeah, that was him, right? And so anytime after that, you know, it's gonna be okay. Like, whatever we go through, you know, it's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:35

Yeah, he works all things for good.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:38

Yeah. Well, yeah, he's I mean he's turning what you know I went through again. This this was like my my journal that I was keeping when I was going through things and going to um a couple different therapists here in town to kind of work through some stuff. And um good for you, Sean. But well, at you know, I thank God for you know allowing me to, you know, open myself up for that. Because, you know, again, like back to the beginning, like I'm you know, trying to be this this tough guy, you know, or hold my emotions in and and and live this way, try and emulate whoever, you know, um, to actually come to terms with like it's okay to be emotional. It's okay, you know, like God gave and you know, I hear my wife's voice, God gave you these things for a reason. Yes, these things are given to us, um and there's a reason behind them, you know. So yeah, I'm I'm tired, kind of tired of hiding it, you know. Like I'm just I'm gonna go up to the altar, I'm gonna pray, and I'm probably gonna ball my eyes out. And that's okay, I'm fine with that, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:39

Like you feel like such a sense of relief though, and to be able to be that transparent within yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:45

Yeah, I think for a well, you know, I I've been to the altar a number of times before this transition, you know, and I think I was kind of holding, holding back a little bit, you know, not again, like like who's gonna look at me, who's watching me, you know, like it's only when I got down there I'm like, I don't care who's in this house. Right, I don't care who is watching me. And I and that was when I was I was able to just let go and and really receive.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:17

And I and I remember, I can't remember the the year, but

Re Baptism And Hearing God Speak

SPEAKER_03 1:15:20

when I got the Holy Ghost. Like it was so bizarre because I remember walking out of the church and everything was so much brighter. It was really interesting, like, because I I love outside, I love being outside, I love nature, you know. But I walked outside and all the trees were like greener.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:39

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:40

And the flowers were brighter and the grass was greener. I'm like, what is it? The fog do I have really clean air today or what? But yeah, that that's when I kind of knew I and I I believe I I discussed it with Bishop, and uh he said, Well, men are typically a very visual creature, um, so we we look a lot with our eyes, and and he's like, So that kind of makes sense, you know. That yeah, yeah, it's like my eyes were polished, you know, and it was really amazing.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:08

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:09

Um, so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:11

And so no more fear of the altar, like no, apart from the emotional stuff that was gone, but all the other types of fear left when you came back. Yeah, yeah. Um and even getting the Holy Ghost, that you were able to receive that without fear.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:33

Yeah, yeah, I think I think I was. I mean, but that happened on the first go-around. Sorry, we're kind of like bouncing back and forth all over the place, but that was after my first baptism, is when I got the Holy Ghost for the first time. So that was like in 2011, 2012.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:47

But you would have got refilled when you came back at the last time. Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, um, okay, and I get what you're saying. You lost the fear of all of that when you got filled the first time.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I I understood it. Yeah. Like where before I was like, I don't know what's going on down there. I have no clue. And I don't know how to obtain that, you know. So again, there was the fear of the unknown. Like, I didn't know. Um, but I know now, I get it now, and I love it. You know, like I I don't know why I didn't do it sooner.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:20

Just let go. Um, there's a lot of you know, ego that had to be put aside and and let that thing go because that's doing nobody any good.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:29

Um it exists even though we don't always we're not always aware that our ego is in play. Yeah, I understand that. Yeah, it's it does. It's it takes the Lord to reveal that to us, you know. Yeah, and then we can surrender that.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:44

Yeah. But yeah, I just feel like, you know, and still, like I said, he's he's working on me, so I feel like he I have this, I'm a visual person, so I have this image. I'm just like chiseling away, like these layers of of the world that have built up around me. Like he's just chipping off these layers, chipping off these layers, get rid of that, get rid of that. Um, you know, he's softened my heart. Like, that's one thing that you know, I that's made a major difference since the the catalyst. Like, my heart is so much softer. Like, um, man, there's times where like I can feel my wife's emotions from across the room, and she hasn't even said a word. Like, hey, are you okay? She's like, Oh, something just like, you know, a thought came in. I'm like, I know, I can feel it, you know, like I can sense that. And it's it's it's interesting, it's fascinating. But yeah, he's really softened my heart, and I keep praying that he's gonna keep it soft because I never want I don't want those layers back on. Like shed that stuff off, and I got a lot more to shed off, but um I'm excited for the process. I'm not scared anymore, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:49

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:50

Um I'm excited about it.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:52

Yeah, it's it's um it's good, and like you said, it's lifelong. Yeah, you know, but he he reveals himself through the process. We get to learn more about him, draw closer to him, yeah. You know, with every new thing that we go through, that we let go of, that we surrender, that we grieve, you know. It's it's it's bittersweet, I think.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:18

Yeah, I'm just I'm really just trying to work on this relationship, a relationship with him, because that's what a you know pastor said it, but I've heard it other places. I watch sermons online and stuff. I try not to listen to too much, you know, secular music anymore or like just because like some things just trigger latch on, you know. Um but yeah, it's um oh where was I going? I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:42

Um the relationship.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:45

Yes, thank you. You know, it's not about it's not about the church, right? It's not about it's not about the pastor, pastor, you know, it's it's about it's about a relationship with him, with Christ. And that's what I'm really trying to work on, talking to him as you know, more and more and more um just to get to know him, let him get to know me. I know he wants to hear from me, you know, like and I and and I like that. I like that he wants to know me. Yeah, um, so and I want to get to know him. So I do need to read the Bible more a little. I like I've never been a big reader, but I I that's something that I need to change for myself.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:20

You you know who really um woke me up to that, and that's your brother-in-law, Kelly, sitting in church and hearing a message from him and not really knowing what he was talking about, having been in church my whole life. Yeah, I was familiar with the terms, but I really didn't know what any of it meant. Yeah. And that really caused me to just pick up the book and start in Genesis and and read what it said, because you know, I heard the stories and it it really I fell in love with it, you know, and people that aren't readers can learn to read, you know, learn to enjoy it. It may never be someone's go-to thing, but the Bible is such a treasure trove. I feel like there's so many, so much treasure there. When you start pulling out that treasure, it's like you just want more of it. Yeah, you know, you you just want to see what else it has to say. Yeah. So, you know, you will. I think it's a good one.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:21

I'm excited about it. And you know, Carrie and I are have are trying like we started in Matthew. We're like, yeah, well, we started in Genesis, but then we're like, you know what, let's um I don't know. I think I think we got into like Leviticus or something, and then we're like, you know, let's go to let's start in Matthew. Let's go to let's go to the New Testament. And so we we you know, we got into I think yeah, I think we're in John somewhere. Yeah,

A Softer Heart And A Bible Habit

SPEAKER_03 1:21:45

you know, we got it on the phone, so we like save it, you know, save it on this date, you know, and we'll go back to it and keep reading. Um so trying to trying to get back into or get into it. Because again, I just I've just never been a real big reader.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:59

I'll I'll go do something.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:00

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're not alone, I don't think, Sean.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:05

But it's exciting to see. I mean, I I'm so happy to have you here and to share your your story because I've never really known it like so many other guests that I've gone to church with for many years, never even knew them. So it's good to hear it, and it's good to know your commitment and you know, just to see where you're at and yeah, and to see what God has done in your family from the faithfulness of your mother.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:31

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:32

You know, yeah. It's it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful thing, and I and I hope that it gives others who've been waiting for a long time for their promises to be fulfilled hope. For sure. Because sometimes they, you know, the Bible says, though it delay or though it tarry, it will come. Yeah, you know, God, God is a rewarder, He will bring those promises to pass. Yeah, those prayers have a uh expiration date, they're gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:02

Yeah, well, I hope more come back, you know. I really do, because there's nothing like it. There's nothing like it.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:09

Yeah, there's nothing in the world.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:10

No, no, this place is just trash, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:15

Yeah, I'm glad, you know, sometimes I think about God's mercy that allowed me to get to the end of myself.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:27

To know that I know that I know there's just nothing out there but him. Yeah, he didn't have to let me do that. Yeah, you know. Um, but I know that without a shadow of a doubt, there is nothing out there but him that's ever gonna fulfill that place in me. Right, you know, yeah, it's his goodness. So, Sean, what I always end the podcast with two questions. Oh, okay. Um, what would you say to the prodigal who hasn't come home yet? The one out there that left church.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:01

Yeah, um, man, don't wait too long. I mean, from what I've you know, just from my coming back into things, you know, and my eyes being open to to to what's going on in the world, and I try not to watch a whole lot of news either, because man, it's such bad news. But I man, there's something that I feel, I feel this, I feel that God is pulling his people back. Like I feel it, yeah, and I see it, you know. Like, you know, after you know, there was the Charlie Kirk situation, right? I think a lot of people were like, like, why was that guy so important? Like, why are why is everybody so upset? Like, you know, like who was this guy? And and so people are looking like, wait a minute, like I, you know, I don't know. God's using every all kinds of things to pull his people back to wake people up from their slumber. Yeah, I'm one of them, you know, I was asleep at the wheel. And so don't wait too long because I don't, man, I know every generation says this, but you know, in times, but I don't know. I just feel this this heaviness, like he's trying to pull people back. I mean, I've seen it in my family, you know, like of course my dad, you know, relationships with my daughters and my my sons in in-law now. Um, you know, like I feel this pull coming back to to Christ.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:31

And um because time is short.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:32

So don't ignore that, don't ignore that feeling. Like if you've got that feeling, there's a reason. And um don't tarry.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:40

Yeah, that's a good word, Sean. That's a good word. And what would you say to the parents whose whose spouse or prodigal is still out there and hasn't come home? And yeah, what would you say to that?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:53

Don't give up. Don't give up. Um keep praying, keep believing. Um because prayer works. Yeah, it absolutely works. Yeah, um, he is an amazing God and he can do anything, anything, nothing is impossible. So don't give up.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:11

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:12

And just and and uh be diligent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:15

Pray. Good. Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:18

Thanks.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:18

All right. Well,

Advice For Prodigals And Parents

SPEAKER_06 1:26:20

once again, thank you guys for watching. Um if you have a story to share, if you're a prodigal that's come home, would you please reach out to us? Uh, you can email us, uh, Kathy K-A-T-H-Y at theredeembackslider.org. All of our contact information is in the the links in the description, but we'd love to hear from you. Uh, we would love to share your story about the goodness of God in your life. So thank you for watching, and we'll see you again.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:52

We are so glad you joined us. If you have a story of redemption or have worn the label of a backslider, we would love to hear from you. If you'd like to support our ministry, your donation will be tax deductible. Visit our website at the redeemed backslider.org. We hope you will tune in for our next episode.