Straight, No Chaser
Understanding Freedom through Money, Technology, Economics and Philosophy
Straight, No Chaser
Walker America - When Two Podcasters Talk Bitcoin Magic Happens
Have you ever wondered what Bitcoin actually is, beyond the headlines and jargon? This conversation with Walker America, host of one of the fastest-growing Bitcoin podcasts worldwide, breaks everything down into refreshingly simple terms that anyone can understand.
Walker's own journey mirrors what many experience—dismissing Bitcoin in 2014, dabbling in cryptocurrencies at the 2017 peak, then finally grasping Bitcoin's significance during the 2020 pandemic. His candid admission that "I knew absolutely nothing about money or economics" before exploring Bitcoin resonates with anyone who's felt intimidated by financial systems designed to seem complex.
The heart of this episode focuses on answering the question: "Am I too late to Bitcoin?" With Bitcoin currently representing just 0.2% of global assets ($2 trillion compared to $1,000 trillion), Walker makes a compelling case that we're still remarkably early. His explanation of dollar-cost averaging (DCA) as a simple approach—regularly buying small amounts over time—strips away the complexity that often prevents people from getting started.
Perhaps most powerful is Walker's perspective on how traditional economics functions as deliberate gatekeeping: "They benefit from making things seem incredibly complicated." He contrasts this with Bitcoin's simplicity: earn money, save in Bitcoin, and watch your purchasing power grow over time—no financial advisors or complex investment strategies needed. The conversation extends beyond Bitcoin itself to explore how questioning our monetary system naturally leads to examining other established structures from energy markets to healthcare.
Whether you're completely new to Bitcoin or already knowledgeable, this episode provides clarity and perspective that's hard to find elsewhere. Follow Walker on Twitter @WalkerAmerica or visit bitcoinpodcast.net to continue learning from his accessible, insightful approach to Bitcoin education.
Links:
https://fountain.fm/show/68gcLZFDRxOzgGeZmXq6
https://fountain.fm/episode/6vtEdgehdhsP7KJtlBND
https://x.com/WalkerAmerica
https://x.com/BTCsessions
Links:
www.bitcoinforbusiness.io
X: @gavingre
X: @BTC_4_Biz
Primal: GavinBGreen@primal.net
NOSTR: npub12qv07tpwk8x8fy2uuqczghpappap395npuxvsx8pgksh97pezv7s8r7qta
Welcome everybody to the Straight no Chaser podcast. This is the show where we talk about human freedom through money, technology, economics and philosophy. Today's guest is none other than Walker America. Walker is a fellow podcaster and has probably the fastest growing Bitcoin podcast in the world at the moment. His podcast is called the Bitcoin Podcast and I will certainly link through to that in the show notes. It's not often that two podcasters get a chance to just talk to each other and this was a really cool opportunity to do that.
Speaker 1:In this episode, walker talks about Bitcoin and explains it in such a simple and easy to understand way. He covers a wide range of topics and breaks it down into simple, simple language, simple to understand, nothing complicated. In fact, this has become my go-to episode. For anybody that has asked me about Bitcoin, I'll point them straight through to this one. You can't do any better than listen to how Walker explains it. This is a fantastic conversation. This episode was recorded just a week before the Charlie Kirk assassination and Walker, true to style, has done an incredible episode on his own podcast. I will link through to that specific episode in the show notes. It's a really deep dive into what's going on into the society at the moment and I know you're going to love the talk. Good morning Walker America. Welcome to an evening in South Africa. It is 5pm American time here in South Africa, 10am in your time. Welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to have you.
Speaker 2:Thank you. It's good to be on the show, always happy to podcast with another Bitcoin podcaster about Bitcoin podcasting.
Speaker 1:There we go and in fact, thinking about the title for the show, I was thinking what do you call it when two podcasters come together? And I thought, maybe when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object. That sounds like a good title.
Speaker 2:There we go. You know I'm I struggle with with titles for my episodes because I I hate the YouTube clickbait game. Like I hate it. I hate that. You kind of like need to play it If you want to. You know YouTube's the top of the funnel, right, it's how most, it's how you really reach outside of the Bitcoin echo chamber. If you know, the algo throws something out to people that are outside your normal kind of circle. I hate playing it kind of circle, but I gotta, just I hate playing it. And so sometimes I, you know, I just uh, I just kind of give up on the clickbait and just make something that's obviously like uh, uh, you know, a joking clickbait. Or other times I'd just, you know, uh, do like literally two words and do it in all caps and blast out I'm, I'm really bad at that YouTube.
Speaker 2:uh, youtube, clickbait part it just it doesn't feel right to me but, I know it's necessary and it's like, ah, it's a tough line to walk as a Bitcoin podcaster.
Speaker 1:Yeah, super interesting. So you were just saying it's a pleasure to talk to other podcasters. How often do you get to talk to other podcasters? Because I must just say that your show is probably one of my favorites. I think I very quickly found your show. I think peter mccormick had sort of just moved away from his bitcoin show and I was kind of looking for something else that had that almost easy listening, easy conversational, uh uh type of chat, and I stumbled across yours and absolutely love it. So, um, how did you? What made you decide to start in the podcasting business?
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, you know, shout out to Peter McCormack because, like, what Bitcoin did is literally the podcast that, like, started me down the rabbit hole, and that was the first Bitcoin podcast I listened to. And then, you know, guy Swan's Bitcoin Bitcoin Audible was, you know became another heavy rotation one. Preston Pish's Bitcoin Fundamentals. I think for a lot of people, podcasts are like once they've decided I want to start learning about Bitcoin, podcasts are really an easy way to do that and the great thing is we need more Bitcoin podcasts. I'm always happy to see when new ones are spinning up. Until we have more Bitcoin podcasts than TradFi podcasts, we don't have enough. So if you're out there listening and you want to start a Bitcoin podcast, go out there and do it. We're not competing against other Bitcoin podcasters. We're competing against the crypto and the fiat world. So, more Bitcoin podcasts.
Speaker 2:But I started honestly because I think you're familiar with Carl and my wife. We'd been both making short form content just just for fun, uh, and had been doing that for. Let's see, since I think we started in 2021 is when we started making content for around bitcoin. After lurking on bitcoin twitter for a while, we got into bitcoin around 2020, uh, kind of the. As covid started kicking off, the world started going crazy. They're locking things down, they're printing money. We're just thinking what the heck is, what the heck's going on here.
Speaker 2:And it's unique because I was able to kind of go down that rabbit hole with my wife, which is nice. It's not always, not always the case for a lot of folks and I sympathize there. But I can't empathize because, honestly, my wife is just crazy based and was was right there with me on the journey, just crazy based, and was was right there with me on the journey. But after Carla got pregnant with our first son who's let's see going on, you know, a couple months away from two years old now, she basically decided I don't want to make content or I want to take a break from content, because it's a ton of work.
Speaker 2:She was doing all the editing, she was doing all the post-production, all of that stuff. You know, I was basically just writing and performing with her and then, you know, she would handle the rest after that, which is like the bulk of the work, and so obviously she's, you know, about to pop. She's not really feeling like making videos, and so I was like, okay, totally respect that, but you know I'm not about to like learn final cut and be as good as you are, and nobody really wants to see these short form videos with, like, just me in them. You know, she's like 98 of the appeal, right, like let's be honest about it, and so I also can't sing at all very bad, and she's got a, you know, beautiful voice. So I'm just, I'm down and out on all counts and I decided, well, you know what, if, what if? I just made a, you know a bitcoin podcast and initially it was going to be a joke, I was like, let's, let's call it a another fucking bitcoin podcast. You know, play on like the literally make a show that's Bitcoin podcasters, podcasting about Bitcoin podcasters, like have it be very tongue in cheek. And as I was working through this idea and just kind of like workshopping it a little bit. I was like you know, okay, yeah, that'd be funny, but what if I just actually made a, a real podcast, like I just I just do this thing? It's not a bit, it's like I actually go for it. Okay, you know, may as well, and so just started making episodes and it's a. It's a great example of like you can just do things. You can just start a podcast. You can just ask other Bitcoiners to come on and share their stories.
Speaker 2:I think American American Hottle had a great, a great quote, it's like a few years back. He's like you know, we need more Bitcoin podcasts. Like you're having a private conversation with a family member about Bitcoin, why was that not a Bitcoin podcast? Make everything a Bitcoin podcast? But I don't know. I, I I really enjoy it and I feel very fortunate to be alive and aware of Bitcoin at this moment in in space and time, because I feel, like these conversations that we are having, even when it's just bitcoin podcasters podcasting about bitcoin podcasts, how lucky are we to be aware of bitcoin at this moment and here talking about it and some of the people that you get you're able to talk through through bitcoin podcasts. It's just incredible, like you're you're talking with, like legitimate cypherpunks or people who are building incredible companies, people who are literally working on things that will be uh, will be impactful for generations, and I think that's just that's just incredible. So my message to everyone is, if you feel like starting a bitcoin podcast, just do it, because you can.
Speaker 1:You can just you can just bitcoin podcast I love that meme about you can just do things.
Speaker 2:It's a great meme because it's true.
Speaker 1:And it just applies to everything. So it's fantastic. It's like if you have any excuse you can think of to not do something, well, you can just do things. That just cancels out any excuse you have. And the one thing I love about this podcasting thing is that you get to speak to the smartest people I think you've ever spoken to Conversations. I've had people I've met devs, technical guys building products that I've actually used, people just leading in the space. It's just amazing to talk to these guys and have conversations, pick their brain, unbelievable.
Speaker 1:I mean, I was listening to you, an american hodl with eric case in the other day. Uh, love eric case and um, I don't think anybody can rant like he can. Once he gets going, it's almost like um, you know, I don't. The only way I can describe it is like a two-stroke engine. I don't know if you've ever ridden, uh, like a scrambler motorbike, um, and once that two-stroke starts, it hits those revs, it just powers on and it literally cannot stop. Uh, that's what. That's what it's like when he starts his rant and you can hear him build up to the point.
Speaker 1:It's a flow, state you know it's, it's amazing it is unbelievable.
Speaker 1:so I mean getting to talk I haven't had the uh, the pleasure of talking to him yet, but I mean just listening to him on your show has been amazing. Walker, so you mentioned 2020, you bumped into this Bitcoin thing. Did you have the same experience as everybody, or a lot of other people, where they had sort of heard about it, dismissed it, then heard about it again, maybe dismissed it a second or a third time? But I guess at some point there was this aha moment and I'd love to hear what it was for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, like most people, the first time I heard about Bitcoin was not when I got into Bitcoin, nor was it the second time. Maybe there were other times in between there where I heard about it too and I just it didn't even cross my radar. But there are two distinct times that I that I know for sure. The first was in 2014. I heard about it during the silk road days. A buddy of mine was procuring some things. He said you know, walker, have you, have you heard of these, these bitcoins, this bitcoin, whatever, I don't know, it's something. It's like internet money I've got to get, I've got to buy the bitcoins to to buy the goods that I want on on silk road, have you heard about this thing? I'm like dude, I don't know what you're talking about. Like bitcoin, I don't like whatever nerd you know. Like I'm not, not interested, like let me go back to doing fiat stuff over here. So ignore, hard, hard, ignore, very hard, ignore. And then it was 2017.
Speaker 2:Uh, it came on my radar again. I was actually Carla was like I think her dad had mentioned something about, oh, you know, these cryptocurrencies. He's like a comp sci guy and so he's like oh you know, have you heard of these cryptocurrencies, are you investing in them? And I was like I think I heard about those, like you know, back in college, but like not really, not really sure. And so then, like, looked at him again and carl and I both looked at, uh, looked at like bitcoin, and we're like, well, bitcoin's way too expensive, can't afford full bitcoin.
Speaker 2:So you know how about? You know, carl was like I'll get a couple of ethereum, you know, and I'm like, well, even those ethereum are a little bit expensive for me. I think I'll just get a couple litecoins, because, you know, maybe litecoin will go up and it'll be worth as much as bitcoin is, you know. And so then I'll, you know, I'll have, you know, 50x my money and I'll be a genius like, and then that was I mean, that was as at the tip of the 2017 top, as you could be like I, I was the retail coming in right at the very, very top of that and then subsequently, you know, it tanked. Uh, altcoins tanked even harder.
Speaker 2:I don't think litecoin I don't even know if it's honestly, I haven't checked the price for in a long time. I don't. I still don't even know if it's recovered to like where I bought it in 2017, uh rough, so I was like you know, had the usual reaction of well, this was, this was a scam.
Speaker 2:I'm going to ignore this and I lump more years and then 2020 rolls around. As I said, it's, I think, a lot of people, when you had a little bit more time, a little bit of a, pulled yourself out of the Fiat rat race slightly and for Carl and I, we we went into, like deep into the woods of Wisconsin. We were kind of in the middle of nowhere, uh, cause we realized Chicago was getting really weird and so we left thinking we were going to leave for like three weeks and we ended up being in the middle of Wisconsin for three years, but we made a lot of content while we were there. So basically just started, you know, seeing that they're sending out checks to people, seeing that they're printing this money, and I didn't even really have a firm understanding of, like, what the significance of that really was. But something just didn't sit right and I feel like that didn't sit right for a lot of people. And so then you start looking for answers about, you know, start asking like, well, what the hell is money? What does this even mean? What? How are they just creating this money out of nowhere, like what is even going on here.
Speaker 2:And then bitcoin came up on my radar again. It's like, okay, something about a fixed supply, 21 million, something like that. Okay, let me, let me dig into that just a little bit more, because the prior two times I had literally I mean done and not the first time, it was like I did zero research, not even, not even one minute, I just like hard ignored it. The second time it was like I researched it, uh, by just you know, opening up coinbase and seeing, oh, that's expensive, I'll get this Litecoin thing. And then that was that. So now we've got like five minutes total of time invested in studying Bitcoin and not even that, you know, basically seconds of time. And in 2020, I was like, let me actually look into this. And you start looking at it.
Speaker 2:You start, you find, you know, you search for Bitcoin podcasts. You find a couple of those. You start finding a couple of conversations that seem up your alley, and that's where you know, again, shout out to Peter and Guy and Preston. Those shows were just hugely impactful for me, all for kind of different reasons, you know, they're different types of shows, but really just valuable. And I read the Bitcoin Standard. I think Carl and I actually may have listened to it on audiobook the first time together during a long car ride. It's one of those things we were kind of like oh, oh, my god, holy, holy. And you know, these light bulbs start going off and you realize I knew absolutely nothing about money or economics or the way the world worked, like I was. How stupid was I before. Because. And then I think the bitcoin standard really is what sent me down that aust economics rabbit hole as well.
Speaker 2:And you start going down there and then you start. You start realizing why don't they teach any of this in school? Why? Why have I never heard of Austrian economics? Maybe that's a fault of my own, but I think a lot of people are in that boat. Economics is just economics and it's macro and micro and it's what they teach you in your introductory. You know econ 101 and 102 classes and that's just what economics is. And you start to realize that, oh my god, this was. We've just been completely lied to, uh, whether by you know malice or incompetence, it's like the way they tell you the world works is not the way that it actually works. The way economics is described is not actually economics. So that that was. That was massive for me. And then it's.
Speaker 2:You know, I still, as I was going down that journey, I was still, you know, it is you. You buy a couple of shit coins too, because you're still I was still not fully educated, it wasn't all the way down the rabbit hole, yet I was on the journey. You buy a couple of shit coins and you, they go up for, like you know, a couple days or a couple weeks and you're like, okay, okay, nice, maybe these are gonna outrun, outrun bitcoin, and then they end up you end up losing money on them. Inevitably, like, unless you're an insider, you end up losing money on them, and I think that getting burned is kind of it's kind of part of the part of the journey. Right, sometimes you need to get burned, you need to get smart by force, because most people don't get smart by choice, and so for me, it was.
Speaker 2:I will, I will always have empathy for people who have ignored Bitcoin simply just because I went over there. They had other stuff going on in their life, it doesn't matter. I ignored it for just stupid reasons multiple times. So I, from the time I first heard about it until the time I first started stacking sats was like over six years, like that's a long time, and then hearing about it again in between there and still not even realizing that I could buy a fraction of a Bitcoin called a Satoshi. So I won't judge people for that either, and that's why I think I genuinely think Bitcoin podcasting, bitcoin content creation in general because there are all sorts of Bitcoin content creators doing amazing work it's so important because education is still the biggest battle.
Speaker 2:We are so early and all of us started from a place you know. Except Satoshi Nakamoto, the rest of us had to hear about Bitcoin and then learn about Bitcoin. There's only, you know, one person, or maybe a group of people who knows. There's only one Satoshi that created it. Right the rest of us, we have to figure it out for ourselves, and it's hard to figure it out for yourself. Nobody is an expert in economics and computer science and game theory and information, like nobody's an expert in all that. So we have to rely on other educators to try and fill those gaps for ourselves.
Speaker 2:And that's where, again, bitcoin content creation, bitcoin podcasting, I think is so important, because it is the bridge for most people to go from pre-coiner to stacking sats. And you know it's a we're. We're each just little stones on that bridge Right, but we, we do our parts, I hope. Sorry for that rambling answer, but yeah, I ignored it a lot of times, or at least a couple of times for a long time, and then finally woke up and even then made plenty of mistakes. So if you're in that boat where you've ignored it for a while and you're thinking now I'm too late, I've missed it, whatever, you're not.
Speaker 2:You're not. I thought that it's easy to think that it's natural that you would think that, but you're not. You're still incredibly, incredibly early.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm glad you explained it like that, because I think almost everybody I've met has had the same kind of walk, the same path that they followed, and I think it's reassuring for people that are curious and they might be thinking hey man, I said no to my mates a couple of years ago and if I say yes now, I'm going to look like an idiot and I should have just said yes then, or I'm too embarrassed to put my hand up and say I don't really understand what you're saying. So what do you say to people when they come to you and they say hey man, yeah, maybe great back in 2020 when you got into it, or maybe 2017, or maybe you know. But hey, it's 2025, price is over $100,000, can't afford any of them Bitcoins. So what do you say to that?
Speaker 2:First of all, I say I get it because I felt the same thing when I finally decided to start saving in Bitcoin, little by little, you know, dollar cost averaging into Bitcoin in 2020. I didn't have a bunch of, I didn't have, you know, piles of cash lying around that I was dumping into Bitcoin. I didn't ape in all ones, no, I'm just steadily dollar cost average. I was really bad at saving money, like really bad at it, and I think that if you're like that as well, like you just you know you feel like you're bad at saving it would say, yeah, that's natural, because in the fiat system you can't save, you can't save in fiat.
Speaker 2:If you save in fiat, you lose purchasing power every year. You have to invest, you have to gamble, you have to try and get a rate of return. You have to try and increase your purchasing power by having a second job of being an investor, trader, gambler, right, and most of us are really bad at that and most of us you're also working another job. You're trying to live your life, you're trying to do right by your family. You don't have time to sit there and watch charts all day and go. You know, you just don't have time. So if you're feeling like you've missed the boat, that's okay, but I'm happy to tell you that you're absolutely wrong. You haven't missed the boat at all.
Speaker 2:We are still so early and you may say well, bitcoin's, over $100,000 a coin how can that be early? Everyone who buys Bitcoin when they finally do stack some stats, they feel that they could have gotten them cheaper before. That's natural, but the reality is Bitcoin is a roughly $2 trillion asset right. The total global asset value is $1,000 trillion. Bitcoin is 0.2%. Jesse Myers Croesus BTC on X has an awesome chart for this. I highly recommend you check it out because it puts all of this in really great perspective, and again.
Speaker 2:Bitcoin is $2 trillion. That sounds like a lot. $2 trillion over $100,000 a coin, wow. Total global asset values is $1,000 trillion. Gold is like $22 trillion. Art and cars and collectibles are like $21 trillion, something like that. Equities are, I think, uh, like what, 100 or 315 trillion, something around there. Then you've got you know, real estate, which is just a you know a massive amount, like 370 trillion. Bonds are like 318 trillion. Money, just money supplies, 129 trillion. So Bitcoin is, you know it still needs to 10X before it even gets to gold, right, and we know that Bitcoin is better money than gold.
Speaker 2:Gold was great money for like 5,000 years. Gold has had an awesome run and it's actually maintained its purchasing power. You can still basically buy the uh, the you know the same, uh, the same goods for the same amount of gold that you could as you go back into antiquity. That's gold did a great job, but it's not money for the information age. Bitcoin is money for the information age. It's digital gold, but it's more than digital gold. It's also a way to transact globally at the speed of light in an uncensorable way. Bitcoin is completely weightless, so it has all of the properties and better properties of gold store value and far, far better properties when it comes to a medium of exchange. That is incredible. And again, you are early, because we are only at 0.2% of the total global asset value. 0.2% is currently in Bitcoin. That's nothing. That is nothing.
Speaker 2:And if there's one thing you can be certain of, it is that every fiat currency in the world will continue to debase. They will continue printing money. They have to. Lynn Alden's nothing stops this train meme when it comes to fiscal dominance is absolutely true. Right, there is nothing that stops this. We are going to continue debasing every fiat in the world. Many of them will fail, as every fiat currency eventually fails, because it's just a race to zero. Right, it's a race to being absolutely valueless. There's just going to be nothing there.
Speaker 2:And in the meantime, everything that you buy, if you're denominating in fiat, is getting more and more expensive every single year. Right? When you denominate your life in Bitcoin, everything gets cheaper forever. Your purchasing power grows, and it does that because you can just save. Bitcoin is money. You can just save money now, because it's sound money, it's good money. It's hard money. Fiat you can't save. You will lose purchasing power.
Speaker 2:Fiat is not built for savings, it's built for spending. It's built to incentivize high time preference, instant gratification, heat of the moment type thinking. It's built to keep you on that hamster wheel. Bitcoin is built to let you think for the long term, to actually plan, to have some breathing room. And so if you think you are late to Bitcoin, don't worry, you're not.
Speaker 2:0.2% of total global asset values is in Bitcoin 2 trillion versus a thousand trillion in global assets. Take a step back. Realize that you can still buy just a little bit of Bitcoin, just a little DCA, a little dollar cost averaging. That's all you got to do Just start. Starting is the hardest part. And don't worry, everybody always thinks they're too late to Bitcoin. The people who were buying Bitcoin in 2012 thought they were late because people were buying in 2011. Like then, the people in 2011 thought they were late because people were buying in 2011. Like then, the people in 2011 thought they were late because they weren't mining when the first you know Bitcoin blocks came out. Everything is relative, but realize that Bitcoin is actually a tool for saving for the long term and it's also censorship resistant, unfuckable money. This is incredibly valuable right For the chaos that is certainly to come in our world in the coming years chaos that is certainly to come in our world in the coming years.
Speaker 1:So you mentioned DCA. So maybe someone is listening to their very first Bitcoin podcast. How would you explain DCA? And maybe you mentioned it's hard to save, so just talk a little bit about that. What is DCA and how does it help?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so DCA is just dollar cost averaging. It just means you're buying little amounts of Bitcoin on a regular basis over a long time period, right? You're not taking a lump sum investment, because if you're like me and you just start buying Bitcoin, you don't just have a pile of cash line around that you can dump into Bitcoin. No, again, I was really bad at saving, so I just, you know, you take a little bit of everything you earn and you invest it in yourself. You invest it in Bitcoin, you save in Bitcoin. You save the value of your time and your energy, of your work, and you save it in money that can't be debased. You save it in something that has a hard cap of 21 million. And so there was a great I think I mentioned this prior, but there's a great visual published by Wicked Smart Bitcoin just today that showed saving in dollars versus saving in gold versus saving in Bitcoin dollar cost averaging into these, starting in January 2018 and going to right now, august 20th or September, now 2025. So it was over 400 weeks, right, and it was just $50 DC aid every week. So you're just taking $50 every week and you're putting it either into just keeping it in dollars, saving it in dollars, and you'll see how that turns out in a moment. Saving it in gold, okay, or saving it in Bitcoin. At the end of these 400 weeks, you'd have $20,000 that you had saved in dollars. That sounds nice until you see what the rate of inflation was over that time period, from 2018 till now in 2025. And you know, if you've been buying groceries or literally anything, or looked at the price of houses, literally looked at the price of everything, that we have lost so much of our purchasing power in that time period because they turned the printers on full speed. So you've got twenty thousand dollars. But twenty thousand dollars in 2025 does not buy you a twenty right. Gold did pretty well, okay. So you've almost basically doubled the value of your dollars because you saved in gold. You saved in a better money, a harder money. But if you had saved in Bitcoin just again $50 a week, just again $50 a week you would have 1.3719 Bitcoin worth $148,707 at the time of him publishing this chart. Wow, which is just insane, and it's.
Speaker 2:You know, people want to make these things complicated, they want to make it seem like it's hard, but it's really. You know, there's that old thing. You know it's time in the market, not timing the market, right, but that's really true and I think that's what DCA allows you to do your dollar cost averaging. You're spending your dollars to purchase the only absolutely scarce, completely finite asset in the world, right? That is a pretty darn easy and pretty great strategy. It's literally the best strategy. There's nothing else you're going to be able to save in that's going to do that. Well. Maybe, if you pick the right tech stock over a certain period yeah, you could find periods of where that tech stock would outperform Bitcoin, maybe, but over the long arc of time, bitcoin is going to beat everything else. It has been beating everything else. It is the best money, it is the best way to save, it is the best way to invest in yourself and your future and your family's future, and so that's again, just start DCAing is.
Speaker 2:I recommend it to people because, again, most people don't just have a bunch of cash lying around because fiat money is broken, and also it's just, it's non-threatening, it's really nice and easy. You just take a little bit. You know, take the money that you can't afford to lose. You know people say, oh, you know, just saving these cryptocurrencies what you can afford to lose. It's like no, no, this is the money you cannot afford to lose. This is the money that you are saving for your family's future, and you will see. You got to be patient, you got to wait, but the more you start dollar cost averaging into Bitcoin, the more you realize that, wow, saving is actually really easy. You just have to have the right vehicle to save in, and that vehicle is Bitcoin.
Speaker 1:Now, walker, I absolutely love what you've said there, because this is I'm going to actually tag this. I've decided I'm changing the title of this. One no longer unstoppable force meets an immovable object, or maybe that's a sub tag, but I'm going to say this is if you're curious about Bitcoin, this is the podcast. I want to find a better wording for it, but I think for a beginner, the way you've just summed up is incredible Simple, easy to understand. Now my next question is question is do you think what you've described is too simple for people? Do people naturally want a complicated solution? We're always told stocks, bonds, shares, financial managers, advisors, day trading indexes, s&p 500s very, very complicated. So what you've described is super easy. What do you say to someone who said no ways, it can't be that simple? How do all these other people make money? Because they make it complicated.
Speaker 2:That's a great question. Again, I would say it's natural to feel that this just saving in Bitcoin, this dollar cost averaging into Bitcoin it's natural to feel that that somehow sounds too good to be true, it sounds too easy. It sounds like how could that? How could it possibly be that simple? Right, I just save a little bit on a regular basis in Bitcoin and my purchasing power grows. Come on, no, I need to. I need to be paying my financial advisor so they can invest into the S&P 500 for me, and I need to have dividends, and I need to have all this. It is that easy. But the reason that you feel that this is too good to be true is because we exist within the fiat system. Right, the fiat system has completely broken our perception of what it means to create and save value, because everything within this fiat system is designed to incentivize this short-term thinking. It's designed to. It's designed to seem incredibly complicated, because it is actually incredibly complicated, you know, and if you want to succeed, in this fiat system without bitcoin.
Speaker 2:It's pretty hard to do. That, you know, it's uh unless you already have access, unless you're already closer to the money printer, it's very difficult to get ahead in the fiat system. It's not that it's impossible, but it's really hard. People who are out there right now listening, who feel the pain of inflation, they know this. But this system, it's full of gatekeepers, right, it's full of people that will tell you, will tell you what to do, and we'll, you know, move your money around for you and we'll give you the right advice that you could. You too, can get ahead in this in this crazy world, sonny boy, it's designed to be difficult. It's designed and maybe it maybe maybe at the very start of uh, you know this this fiat experiment, some people had the had a uh, a good rationale for doing these things.
Speaker 2:I, I don't know. I think that even if you look back to the creation of the federal reserve not that's even the, the creation of fiat, but that's the modern creation, right but if you look back in 1913, I think it's pretty clear that they were aiming to centralize control and they were aiming to give themselves the power of the printing press, because it is the most powerful thing that exists in this fiat world. So I think that it was pretty nefarious actually, but I get it. Why you would think well, hold on, I just have to create a little bit of value for society. I save the product of that value creation I save in Bitcoin. So I spend my dollars, I buy Bitcoin and then I just wait. It's like yeah, yeah, that's it. Like literally, that's it. And that's not to say that you should never spend Bitcoin. I spend Bitcoin every day on Noster, by zapping sats to people when I find one of their posts valuable or when I find a valuable podcast that I like. So I spend Bitcoin as well. But the important thing is that you have to start saving it Like you can worry about spending it later and know that it is an incredible medium of exchange as well, and it is a censorship resistant one, and the lightning network and e-cash built on top of it give you incredible, incredible optionality in terms of how you want to interact with bitcoin. But the important thing here is that it is just that simple. You can just earn earn dollars, buy Bitcoin with those dollars and save the Bitcoin, and your purchasing power will grow over time. I'm not saying that Bitcoin is not going to go down in fiat value tomorrow or the next day or maybe within a yearly time frame, but if you hold that for over four years, your purchasing power will increase.
Speaker 2:No-transcript, you shouldn't have to have a second job of being an investor, a gambler, a trader just to make ends meet. You shouldn't have to have a second job that is just trying to figure out how to manage your money so that you can escape the punishing effects of inflation. You shouldn't have to do that and thankfully, because of Bitcoin, you don't have to do that. You can opt out of fiat debasement, you can opt out of the fiat system, and you can do that by just stacking sats. And you can do it in a really easy way, which is just stack a little bit on a regular basis. Basically, every exchange now supports the ability to just set up an automatic dollar cost average and forget about it and watch, you know, and then focus on your family, focus on creating value, so you can stack more sats and live your life. That's the beauty of Bitcoin it allows you to actually just live your life, because you can finally get breathing room just by saving money, because Bitcoin is sound money.
Speaker 1:Love that. Brilliant Thanks. Really clear, easy to understand, and I think that's what people want. Just a simple set of guidelines to follow just makes it so much easier.
Speaker 1:You mentioned something earlier about economics, that it is this weird thing when you first got into the Bitcoin space and started learning about economics perhaps for the first time that you quickly discovered there is economics and then there is economics. It's kind of interesting because it sounds to me like economics has been packaged as a science, almost like math or physics, where you, you know, in those realms you have unbreakables, laws, things that can't be broken, and if you try and break them you end up killing yourself or someone else, or there are real world consequences to trying to bend math or physics or something like that, and economics seems to be. People seem to sell economics as one of these. It's undeniable, it's scientifically proven. Of course this is the way it is, but it seems to me that economics is a little bit more like a philosophy, really.
Speaker 1:You know, philosophy is just a different way of looking at things and everyone has their own opinion. Some people have written books about it and they're famous for their philosophical viewpoints. But why do you think economics seems to be spoken about on TV all day, every day. You have these financial CNBC news channels that just talk about the markets 24-7. They make it sound complicated. I know we spoke a little bit about it doesn't have to be complicated to save, but what do you think the rationale is behind making something sound like it is gospel truth when actually it just seems to be a theory that someone's come up with?
Speaker 2:Another excellent question. I would say that, again, gatekeepers benefit from gatekeeping, they benefit from making things. This is why the Federal Reserve employs like I don't know 500 PhD economists something crazy. They think that they are smarter than the free market. They think and we don't live in a free market. We can't live in a free market because we don't have a free market for money and you need to have a free market in money to actually have a free market.
Speaker 2:Money is upstream of everything, right? So I think the reason that they want to make all of this super complicated and that you, if you're not a PhD economist, you have no business talking about economics. You know economics and finance and you have to call it finance when you have a PhD, is that you sound very fancy. And I mean, it's all just bullshit, right? You can, you can look at this very simply and see okay, do they actually? Are they actually being truthful? Right? And an easy way to do that? Just let's just look at the how inflation versus deflation is talked about, and you hear time and time again that deflation from these phd economists is very bad and it's very and it's very dangerous. And they're they, they're referencing, you know, periods of time like, oh well, when we were on the full gold, like there was deflation and that was bad, and it's like you mean during some of the most prosperous times in history, like sound.
Speaker 2:Money has literally allowed, allowed humanity to flourish, because again you can save, you can plan for the future. The prices are real. The prices matter in the fiat world. None of this is real, it's all dictated. They don't even have to print the money anymore physically, they just a few keystrokes on their computer. This is insanity. It is insane that we let a centralized cabal of bankers set the price of money, set the interest rate, and they say you know the central bankers will tell you well, we, you know, we have a dual mandate. You know maximum employment and stable prices.
Speaker 2:And, by the way, stable prices doesn't mean prices are actually stable. It doesn't doesn't mean stable, it means that they are going up at their target inflation rate of 2% per year. So stable, but in quote, stable but increasing. And that 2%, I forget which. It might've been the central bank of New Zealand that originally set that and said well, 2%, that's sounds like a good number. Basically, every other central bank adopted it. I forget if it was New Zealand or another one, so don't quote me on that.
Speaker 2:But the moral of the story being like why? Why 2%? Because these super smart PhD economists have figured out that 2% is the optimal amount of theft that they can get away with every year without people rising up in the streets and bringing the guillotines back. That's what they've realized. They can steal from you about 2% a year and it's just enough that you won't really notice. You don't really notice it's happening. You know prices seem quote, quote stable because they're going up. You know, depending on what you're buying, just a little bit a year.
Speaker 2:Or you have so much technologically driven deflation in certain product categories, for instance, flat screen tvs are one you know they look at. The price of flat screen tvs keeps going down. The world is good, it's like. No, it's just. The technology is naturally deflationary.
Speaker 2:Jeff book. Je Booth talks about this in his book the Price of Tomorrow, which is one that I would recommend everybody read. It is outstanding and it was again a hugely formative part of my journey down the Bitcoin rabbit hole. But what Jeff talks about is that technology is naturally deflationary. Naturally, deflation is a good thing. You want things over time to get cheaper. You want your money to buy you more over time, not less. And technology is like you only have to think about this for just like a second and then it clicks and you're like how did I not think of this before? And it's like, well, because somebody like jeff booth had to spell it out for you. But technology is naturally deflationary. You can easily see this, see this Look at the automation that happens in our factories.
Speaker 2:Look at the automation that happens in agricultural production. Look at the incredible, incredible efficiencies that the internet has brought about, that any new technology brings about. Go back to the steam engine, the car replacing the horse and buggy, electric lights replacing candles and oil lamps. All of these things bring new efficiencies. Efficiencies drive prices down, and when you have a free market of people competing to try and deliver you the best product or service, they are naturally going to be in a race to make things cheaper, because they're making things more efficient. Right, they want to be the option that you choose because they provided you with the best quality for the best price.
Speaker 2:That's what you want, and everybody around the world makes subjective value judgments about what they value, because none of us value anything the same as another person. You can't possibly do that. What is your child worth? How many of your cars is your kid worth? I don't think anyone can answer that right, and that's a. That's like an extreme example, but sometimes the extremes can inform the uh, the rest of it.
Speaker 2:So the point here being that these gatekeepers, these, these fiat shamans, this cabal of bankers and intellectuals, and these intellectuals are very important when it comes to giving the government's justifications for what they do ultimately, right, that that's. That's why the intellectuals are kind of part and parcel of the government apparatus. They they need to be there to be able to lead, to lend legitimacy to the state. Right, they need to be able to come on TV now and say well, you know, we have to keep interest rates at this number because of these factors, and that's just what we have to do, and we're the economists, we have PhDs, so you have to trust us. And then the government says, well, you know, I guess that's what we've got to do. Trump is maybe bucking that a little bit by. Maybe he's you know, he's not a big fan of the Fed right now. This is beside the point, because the Fed is ultimately just a cabal and is ultimately, you know it's not part of the government, it's a public-private institution, but it is. You know, like it's just. It's insanity.
Speaker 2:I don't want to go too far down that rabbit hole, because it's a whole nother thing. But I'll sum it up with this the fiat world requires the intellectual elites to be gatekeepers. They have to be there making things seem really complicated and giving you these very eloquent answers about exactly why they have to steal from you every year, exactly why you have to pay taxes, even though they just print money out of thin air anyway to fund wars in the deserts, that you money out of thin air anyway to fund wars in the deserts that you never heard of and don't agree to. And you don't want to see a bunch of your tax dollars being going to bombing kids, right, but that doesn't matter. They're going to tax you. They're going to print money and there is nothing you can do about it. Right, and they want, but they can't say it quite like that. So they have to give all these elaborate justifications. They have to give you the intellectual reasons why it has to be just this way and it is what it is. But don't worry, we've got things under control. They don't have things under control. I mean, they control things, but there is no way that a group of unelected banker bureaucrats are smarter than the free market. There's no way that central banks can possibly can possibly be smarter than millions and billions of people freely making decisions based on subjective value judgments. It just can't. It's not possible. They can't do. It's not possible. They can't do it. So they have to come up with justifications that are very complicated and sound very nice, so that you just go back to being a good little worker bee and staying on your treadmill and you don't get too riled up. But every now and then they push things too far. They shut down the entire economy while also sending people checks and giving businesses, you know, loans that don't need to be paid back and giving you know banks a 0% reserve requirement. All of this happened during COVID. They do stuff like that and they increase the money supply by trillions and trillions of dollars in the span of a couple of years and they say inflation's transitory. It's just a little. Every central banker in the span of a couple of years. And they say inflation's transitory. It's just a little. Every central banker in the world said you know, christine Lagarde, it is a hump and it will go down. You know it will come. It will come. And you know Jerome Powell saying we do think it's transitory.
Speaker 2:Oh, every one of these central bankers was parroting the same line, and they must know what they're talking about. Right? They're the economists, after all, like they're. They're the ones who who you know. They're the ones who have, you know, gone to all the right schools and and done all the right jobs and have all the right connections. They must know what they're talking about. But the what you have to realize is that you either must think that they are completely incompetent and they actually have no fucking idea what they're talking about, because they're all wrong all the time, or they know that they're lying and they're doing so maliciously, because they know that if the truth about this system comes out, there will be riots in the streets. If people realized how much was being stolen from them and how much has been stolen from them again.
Speaker 2:Everything should be getting cheaper forever, but it's not. It gets more expensive every year. They're not just stealing from you at the rate of monetary inflation, which is the true inflation that's about 6% to 7% per year, is what the monetary base is expanding, at least in US dollars. They're also stealing from you because they're stealing from a negative. Everything should be getting cheaper. You've got 6% to 7%, down to zero and then they're stealing from you negative. Everything should be getting cheaper. So you've got six or 7% down to zero and then they're stealing from you another two, 3% probably, which is just natural, technologically driven deflation. They're stealing from you around 10% per year, conservatively. In the United States, where we have the best of the worst fiat currencies, we've got the skinniest kid at fat camp, we've got the prettiest horse at the glue factory and they are still stealing from you 10% a year. And you think fiat's, you know, in America is bad. You check anywhere else in the world and you, you know you will realize how privileged we are to have the global reserve currency in America, even though it has still screwed over Americans and a lot of the rest of the world.
Speaker 2:So sorry ranting again, but it fundamentally it really makes me angry because this causes real harm to people. This genuinely causes harm. And they hide behind their intellectual arguments, their intellectual elite friends and their ivory towers and their very respected institutions. But at the end of the day they're just common counterfeiters. They're just thieves. End of the day, they're just common counterfeiters. They're just thieves. They print money from nothing and expect you to work for it, to give your blood, sweat and tears to try and do right by your family and give them a comfortable life, and meanwhile they just print. They print it out of thin air what you have to work for, and I don't know about you, but that pisses me off. And so I am very happy and very hopeful because Bitcoin exists, because we finally have a money they can't print out of thin air and they can't confiscate. They can't stop you from using it and sending it to anyone you want, and that is a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1:That sounds like a mic drop moment right there. That is incredible. Thanks for that. We're coming close to the time that you promised to give me Closing comments. If someone needs to stay in touch with you, walker, if they want to follow you, keep in touch. What's the best way for them to do that?
Speaker 2:Sure, hit me up on X.
Speaker 2:I am at Walker America. The podcast is at Titcoin Podcast If you send a DM to either one of those or on Noster. I'm honestly more and more active there versus X. So it's just. You can go to primalnet slash Walker, primalnet slash Titcoin. You can also go to my website, bitcoinpodcastnet. I've got the email up there. You can send an email to hello at Bitcoin podcastnet If you want to reach out directly that way.
Speaker 2:Happy to happy to share anything that I can always happy to go on other Bitcoin podcasts and kind of pay it forward, as those who came on my podcast early on did for me. And you know, if you're feeling like starting a Bitcoin podcast, I absolutely think you should do so and happy to provide any guidance I can from what I've learned or the mistakes I've made. And yeah, just if I could leave folks with one thing. It's just that. Remember we are so early. It's easy to feel like you've been left behind because the fiat system leaves everyone behind, right? Everyone, except for those closest to the money printer. Those closest to the money printer, those closest to the proximity of the creation of new money, do just fine, they do great, but it's on the backs of everyone else, so you may think that that's also the case with Bitcoin. Somehow all these early people there, you know they got rich at the expense of everyone.
Speaker 2:No no no, you will always be later to Bitcoin than someone, unless you're Satoshi. Even Hal Finney was later to Bitcoin than Satoshi. Right, you are later than someone, no matter when you got in. The important thing is that you just start. Start easy, start small, start with something that you feel comfortable with, because the worst thing you can do is buy the top you know whatever the quote top is and then see Bitcoin go down a bit and then panic and sell it and then think you've been scammed. Just buy a little bit at a time.
Speaker 2:We're 0.2% of global assets, a $2 trillion asset ina sea of $1,000 trillion. That is tiny. The important thing is that you just start. Start, however you're comfortable with, you know, and start, start stacking. Start a bitcoin podcast at the same time. Document that journey. There you've got a. You've got an excellent bitcoin podcast in your hands, but I appreciate uh, appreciate you having me on here always a treat to go on other folks bitcoin podcasts. Hope the rants were helpful for folks. And again, like, don't let this fiat system get you down. It is designed to beat you into submission and to make you feel as though somehow the pain of living with inflation is normal and it's just how the world works. It doesn't have to be that way. You don't have to be stuck in this fiat world. You can just start saving the value of your time and energy in the only money that cannot be corrupted, and that's Bitcoin.
Speaker 1:Of your time and energy in the only money that cannot be corrupted, and that's Bitcoin. Well, I've definitely decided that this is going to be the podcast I will point anybody to that wants to learn about Bitcoin for the first time, because I think you've covered it so well, just from why it's necessary. What is the problem? How does Bitcoin fix this? Are we early, aren't we? How do I do it? How do I save? I think we've just covered everything. So anyone listening to this would just have a great one or two simple steps to follow to do that. So I really appreciate that. That's amazing. Often, people get very complicated, go into the weeds, get very technical, which is great. I love those conversations as well, but I think there's a time and a place, and for today's chat is definitely going to be for someone who's just. They've heard about this thing maybe once or twice and they've bumped into it again. And now where to? From here I'm going to say this Walker, america has some answers for you.
Speaker 2:The last thing I would say, if I can, because I, without getting too much into the weeds, but like, the most important thing is that you start. After that, once you have built up a little bit of a savings in Bitcoin, you're probably gonna be buying it on an exchange. You do want to take self-custody of that and that's not scary either. It can seem scary at first, it will feel a little bit scary, but it doesn't have to be scary. There are all sorts of incredible resources that walk you through it. I always recommend people go to BTC sessions. I think he's the best when it comes to practical, hands-on how-to Bitcoin education. So if you have questions about how do I take self-custody, what does that mean?
Speaker 2:Checkout sessions is the best of the best, and that is an important thing, because one of the main benefits of as Satoshi Nakamoto said, the main benefits of Bitcoin are lost if it requires a trusted third party. So when you buy an exchange, you are trusting a third party temporarily, but exchanges can go down, they can get hacked, they can go insolvent. I'm not saying they will, but history has shown us that that does happen right. So you don't want to keep all of your sats on an exchange that you've worked hard. For you do want to take self-custody, and you should do that once you've gotten a little chunk of it, and that's a whole different rabbit hole as to why you should wait for a little chunk. But just, you want to wait until you've built up a nice little pile of sats before you transfer them to cold storage. So but go, btc sessions will educate you better on how to exactly how to do that step-by-step, better than I can, so I'll. I'll plug his uh, his channel uh to for everyone to go check that out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think for what it's worth. Um, coming from me, which is probably not much, but I will a hundred percent agree, btc sessions is great. I think any hardware wallet or any uh Bitcoin wallet you've downloaded onto your phone. He's got a video somewhere that just explains how you operate it, how you move, so definitely check it out. I'll put him in the show notes as well, plus the links to your site I'll put in the show notes. I've got a bunch of other questions and I think I'm going to have to save them for a second or a third chat down the line.
Speaker 2:But thank you so much. If you want to do one more, I'll leave it up to you. I've got another couple of minutes here, so it's up to you, or we can save it for another rainy day. Totally up to you.
Speaker 1:Well, I do want to ask you one thing. So, of all the you know, bitcoin tends to be a money thing, and most people think they understand money. Then they start learning about it and they go whoa, actually, everything they taught me about money is wrong. So I'd love to hear what are the other things that you thought you knew for sure, which you've now realized. Well, if they lied to me about that, what else did they lie to me about? Have you sort of? What other journeys have you been down on? Which direction has Bitcoin taken you in? Just love to hear about some of your other discoveries. And often prompted by the whole, what is money, what is Bitcoin? Leads you down the famous rabbit hole everyone keeps talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that one could probably be its own entire show, but the short the TLDR version, I would say is Bitcoin leads you down, as you said, a ton of different rabbit holes, because you start to realize if money isn't what you thought it was and you didn't actually understand it at all, then what else have they been lying about?
Speaker 2:What else have they been lying about? And you realize that, I mean, my understanding of energy and energy markets has changed completely since going down the Bitcoin rabbit hole and and and looking at how Bitcoin, you know, through the lens of Bitcoin, how I just had no idea how, how the actual, you know energy system worked in any meaningful way. I think most people. It's just not something you think about, you know, you just, it's just electricity and there it is, you know, and but you, that's a, that's a whole fascinating rabbit hole. And realizing to, you know, going down the uh, looking at different forms of you know quote renewable energy, and realizing that none of them actually are like work at scale without bitcoin, makes you realize that, oh well, it's weird then that they would demonize bitcoin so much. These, a lot of these same people. You know the green pieces who have now kind of died off a bit, because they've realized they don't have a leg to stand on for their disinformation campaign.
Speaker 2:But you realize that they're all just full of shit there. I think that health is another one, just realizing how much the pharmaceutical industry has completely just lied to folks. I think a lot of people have come to that realization even without Bitcoin just because of you know, covid and everything else. But realizing just that they're you know the, you know quote. Trusting the science does not mean what you think it means. Trusting the science does not mean what you think it means. It means more like trusting the pharmaceutical companies that they're not just completely bullshitting you.
Speaker 2:And yeah, that's again a whole other rabbit hole, I think, better understanding as well the nature of the state itself. Like, really, you know a great book that I've actually read out loud in the show anatomy of the state by murray rothbard. It's very, it's a very short book. You can listen to me read it or you can read it for yourself and it won't take you very long. But that was really meaningful. Uh, that kind of austrian rabbit hole.
Speaker 2:And again realizing like the, the economic side, bleeds into so much else, right, like it bleeds into your understanding of the state.
Speaker 2:And then you start to you know, you read like the law by, uh, by Bastia, and that was a really realizing that I did not have a true grasp of, like what the purpose of the state actually was like, what is it actually supposed to do? And then realizing, well, okay, hold on, the whole purpose of the state is to enforce the law. Right, the purpose of the law is to organize for the collective defense of private property, is to enforce the private property rights that people have, to make sure that the private property of citizens is not plundered, right. But then realizing that we live in a system where those who are tasked with enforcing property rights and making sure that private property is protected from plunderers, they themselves have become the plunderers and they steal from us all the time, and so that is a whole other rabbit hole. Just my understanding of, I would say, what a farce much of partisan politics is, because ultimately it's like I say this all the time, but there is no red, there is no blue, there is the state and there is you.
Speaker 2:And yes, there are some meaningful differences between the parties in some ways. Yes, you know, I'm not denying that. The point is that, by and large, both sides print money from nothing. Both sides tax you an ungodly amount on the money you are able to earn and they tax that you at every single level. Both sides support the military industrial complexes, continued destruction of anyone who and any country that is deemed, you know, on their hit list, and it's usually for, you know, reasons that are not at all what they are talking about in the media, and and and both parties do that. And in America, you know, we just have the two. We have a Coca-Cola Pepsi-Cola democracy right.
Speaker 2:Youi cola democracy right you know if you don't like coca-cola, it's okay, because we've got pepsi cola for you and it's, it's great. You know, red team, blue team, it's, it's fantastic, it's the perfect system, right? Uh, the last thing I would say is that bitcoin has made me realize. I went down other rabbit holes, like the learning about the fourth turning and then learning about all these other cycles. You learn about Ray Dalio's long-term debt cycles. I learned about Polybius's anticyclosis, which is a couple thousand years old, but it's basically a system for how governments rise and fall and how this cycle persists, and I believe we're entering the mob rule stage of this, which is also known as agglocracy.
Speaker 2:Condratiative waves a Russian economist who theorized this about capitalist systems and how they work, and he was killed because this was during the Soviet Union and his results did not say good things about how socialism and communism would work compared to capitalism. So they offed him, but luckily we were able to read his work years and years later. Him, but luckily we were able to read his work years and years later, so realizing how much money plays a massive part in all of this. That's the reason you go down these other tangential rabbit holes because of Bitcoin, because you start to realize that broken money is at the base layer of everything else.
Speaker 2:We have a foundation that is built on quicksand. It's not built on bedrock, it's not built on stone, it's built on quicksand and it's shifting under our feet. And when the money is broken, everything downstream of that is necessarily broken, because the incentives are necessarily misaligned. It just doesn't work. And so you see all these manifestations, all of these different things that seem like individual, discrete problems. They seem like completely unrelated right, and then you realize that, oh no, it all actually comes back to the broken incentives that are the results of the money being broken at the core of our society, and the money breaks, everything breaks with it. And so I think that's why people find so many different rabbit holes related to Bitcoin, because it all comes back to money. It all comes back to broken money and what it's done. But that's also a reason for hope, because once you realize how just absolutely destructive broken money is on a fiat standard, you realize wow.
Speaker 2:We are so fortunate that Bitcoin exists, because this will actually allow us to build a better world from the ashes. The phoenix will rise after everything goes to dust and it will be ugly for the next few years in the short term, but long term, you are going to be able to weather the storm thanks to Bitcoin. Focus on yourself, focus on stacking sats, focus on taking care of your family, focus on providing value, and you will be able to weather the storm. And when we emerge on the other side of it, the world is going to look different and Bitcoiners are going to play a huge part in rebuilding this world from those ashes of the fiat system, and I'm incredibly bullish on Bitcoiners, trey.
Speaker 1:Lockerbie Absolutely love it. Walker, thank you so much. I can't thank you enough for your time. It's amazing. I look forward to putting this out there. I wish you a great rest of your day. You're probably side of the world and I'm kind of going blind with screen glare over here, but it's getting dark and I didn't want to interrupt you by getting up to turn the lights on. So tips and tricks for a junior podcaster.
Speaker 2:I will get it right. You learn by doing right. But no, thank you for having me on. Great conversation, awesome questions and, yeah, hope more and more people check out your show and it inspires them to start their own Bitcoin podcast too.
Speaker 1:Thank you and I'll send you the link when it's done and wish you the greatest day and say hi to the wife and your little son and keep sending those good morning pictures or great day to be alive pictures I see coming through on Oster. Love it Will do will do will do thanks, keep well, cheers man bye, bye.