Bridge to Bitcoin - Money Changes Culture Before It Changes Policy

Want to see Bitcoin move from theory to till? We sit down with Bridge to Bitcoin—the team quietly onboarding UK pubs, cafés, galleries, and independents—to unpack a playbook that starts with footfall, not hype. Their pitch is disarmingly simple: free setup, native Bitcoin stack, and a customer base that seeks you out. That’s why hospitality leads the charge. When a venue accepts Lightning, meetups follow, and revenue does too. Owners can auto-convert to pounds on day one and later choose to hold a slice, once they’ve seen the green ticks become repeat customers and CSV lines.

We widen the lens to corporates and policy. For big organisations, “accept Bitcoin” is rarely step one; education and risk management are. Put Bitcoin on the risk register, assign a small team to understand the tech, and map both threats and new markets. Think in demographics and brands: how do you speak to a rising cohort of Bitcoin-native customers without turning payments into a science project? The same principle applies to politics. Bottom-up value creation drives top-down attention, not the other way around. That’s why community infrastructure matters: 60-plus meetups across the UK, a weekly events newsletter, and conferences that link merchant adoption with real demand.

We don’t dodge the UK mood: inflation, heavy regulation, and talent flight strain builders. Yet the grassroots story is bright. A sticker on a door can pull in travellers from an hour away—or overseas—because spending sats is a moment you remember. If you run a small business, the lift is light and the upside is real. If you’re in the C-suite, start with education, scenarios, and timeframes. And if you’re a listener curious about the “circular economy,” visit a meetup, pay for something with Lightning, and feel what changes when money settles at human speed.

Enjoyed the conversation? Follow the links in the notes, subscribe for more, and share this episode with a merchant or manager who needs a pragmatic path into Bitcoin.

X: @Bridge2Bitcoin

www.bitcoinevents.uk

https://spotify.link/xlL74qk6NXb

Links:

www.bitcoinforbusiness.io

X: @gavingre

X: @BTC_4_Biz

Primal: GavinBGreen@primal.net

NOSTR: npub12qv07tpwk8x8fy2uuqczghpappap395npuxvsx8pgksh97pezv7s8r7qta

Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The Stage: UK Focus
• 2:20 Early Adoption Reality Check
• 5:20 Who Actually Adopts First
• 11:20 Hospitality As The Bitcoin Beachhead
• 18:00 Meetups, Network Effects, And Footfall
• 24:00 Bitcoin-Only Principles Explained
• 30:00 Corporates, Risk Registers, And Strategy
• 41:00 Bottom-Up Versus Top-Down Change
• 47:00 UK Politics, Policy, And Business Climate
• 55:00 Leaving The UK And Life Design
• 1:03:00 Normalise Don’t Evangelise: Practical Onboarding
• 1:10:00 Conferences, Education, And Charity Work
• 1:17:00 Final Takeaways And Ways To Connect

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to the show, everybody. This is the Straits No Chaser Podcast where we talk about human freedom through money, technology, economics, and philosophy. Today we travel overseas to the UK. We chat to a guy, a group of guys collectively called Bridge to Bitcoin. These guys are absolutely blazing trails in the UK by onboarding local UK businesses into accepting Bitcoin payments. Where this is different to how, for example, the money badger guys in South Africa are doing things, is that bridge to Bitcoin are basically using native Bitcoin software for their clients or businesses to receive Bitcoin directly. It is very cool. This podcast is slightly longer than normal. I was warned at the start that uh if unrestrained, we could go on forever. I think you guys will like this one. Okay, good afternoon, everybody. Today we are joined by the Bridge to Bitcoin guys in the UK, who are here to talk about life in the UK, retail space in the UK, probably politics in the UK, possibly some conferences that might be coming up, uh, and just a little bit about life in the UK in general. So, uh, Simon, James, Chris, welcome to the podcast. Happy to have you guys here.

SPEAKER_03: 1:45

Thank you. Thank you, thank you very much, Kevin. It's a pleasure to be on the podcast. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:50

So I would just like to start off by saying you guys seem to be uh forced to deal with uh as far as onboarding uh merchants in the UK. I think that's uh how I first came across you guys on Twitter, and I think there was an announcement every other day. Hey, we've got a new business, they located here, this is what they do, they're now taking Bitcoin. So, first off, what is it that is suddenly getting UK merchants on board?

SPEAKER_04: 2:21

Interesting. That's an interesting starting point. I I'm gonna I'm gonna counter that, and I'm gonna say I don't think UK merchants are suddenly getting on board. I think it's a slow burn. Um, I think we're very much still at the early stages of Bitcoin, so sorry to to quash any sort of enthusiasm that people might have about Bitcoin, about to hit a sort of turning point, but I think we're still really early. I think we're still at the um early adopter stages and maybe even earlier. So when we speak to business owners, um, if we're speaking to certainly laggards or even the majority of uh business owners or even early adopters, a lot of them, although they might get what we're trying to do, they won't do it because of their psychological makeup. So we're very much looking for early adopters in the space. So um I don't think there's a huge take-up at the moment, but that doesn't stop us from going out there and trying to find those those business owners who want to find something different um to help their business to drive some additional footfall and additional revenue towards their businesses. Um, I don't know if you want to counter that, James or Simon.

SPEAKER_02: 3:40

No, I mean I broadly I broadly agree with what you're saying there. I mean, when we started three years ago, um I think we had something like 30 to 35 businesses in the UK that we could identify as taking Bitcoin. Um, today we're up somewhere in the 450 to 500. So that sounds good. Um, you know, significant progress, but it's still a bit like this thing when they talk about Bitcoin as a store of value on the macro side, and they put up this little graph, the sort of uh area graph, and you see this tiny little square of Bitcoin in the background, you know, whatever it is, 2.2.3 trillion or whatever, and it's like tiny little against all the bonds and the stocks and gold and everything else, and it it's it's still like that, so it's still very small relative to the to the size of size of the uh addressable market, which is well, for us the business to Bitcoin at this stage, it's small independent businesses. Um, yeah, I uh as you say, I working in retail because again, if it's a business to business, it might be small, but business to business, you need another business that's take that's accepting Bitcoin in order to buy off you in Bitcoin. So the whole uh it's very much retail facing small businesses. Um that's a it's the kind of backbone of of any of any economy that, but it's you know, we're nowhere near the medium-sized businesses or the large businesses, so you know, whilst I have bought a burger for a McDonald's burger for Bitcoin, that was in Lugano in Switzerland. I there are no no branches of McDonald's in uh in the UK taking taking Bitcoin, for instance. So um, and we've got no stake and shakes in the UK either. So so again, quite a medium-sized chain in the US taking Bitcoin now, but we don't have any branches of it. So, you know, um so yeah, I pretty much agree with what Chris was saying, to be honest. Uh just chuck in a couple of extra perspectives and some numbers. It we we've made progress, but it's still tidy.

SPEAKER_05: 5:45

Yeah, yeah. I think the bulk of of what we've um onboarded so far have been in some way either connected to a bitcoiner, um, you know, or or or particularly open-minded business owners that uh look at like Chris said, looking for something new, looking for a different edge, different way to get businesses. But there's uh there's I'd say 30-40 percent of the businesses are probably in some way connected to a Bitcoiner, owned by a Bitcoiner, or their aunties or uncles or parents or something, and they've um they've not pressured them, but you know, um persuaded them maybe that accepting Bitcoin would be a good idea. So there is a percentage of that, but but um and the rest will just be open, open-minded people that are the the early the early adopters.

SPEAKER_04: 6:35

Um I I would go even further and say we're actually looking for innovators still in the space if we're looking at the option curve very much. I feel that we're in the innovator stage still. Um so yeah, that's a tiny segment of society who are gonna get it and who are gonna start using it. Um so yeah, sorry, a bit of a downer for the beginning of the podcast, Gavin. Apologies. Oh, not at all.

SPEAKER_00: 6:57

I think it's a great kickoff. In fact, my very next question is tell me about the demographic of your early adopter, your innovator. Is it a younger crowd? Is it an older crowd? Is it uh the middle-aged uh person? Uh who can you can you look at a crowd and point to that guy and say that's the early adopter in the crowd? Or have you got absolutely no way of knowing?

SPEAKER_04: 7:21

I would go with the latter. Um, they could be young, they could be older. It's all about psychology, their their psychological makeup. Are they an innovator? And innovators can be young people, they can be older people, and we've exhibited at trade shows, at normally trade shows, so to speak, so um hospitality and hotel and pub trade shows. And we've spoken to old business owners and young business owners across the spectrum. You you can't tell, the only way you can tell is when they come and speak to you, and they do lots of different things, they try lots of different things, you know, and that's a classic innovator trait. You know, they're they're willing to have a go at something, and if it doesn't work, they just pivot or they just drop it. Uh, and that's what we see with those who are new to Bitcoin who want to accept Bitcoin at their business. They they will hear our pitch and they go, Oh, okay, well, there's nothing to lose. Um, yeah, I'll give it a go. Doesn't cost me anything. You guys will hand hold me through the setup process, and you'll drive additional footfall and additional customers, these this new customer base to my business, and we'll say, Yeah, we'll try. And if we do, great, hasn't cost you anything. So your ROI is infinity. Um, because as soon as you get that customer, one customer through the door spend something, hasn't cost you anything. So your R ROI ROI is infinity. But on the other side, if you don't get a Bitcoin customer, it hasn't cost you anything. There's no capital outlook, the vast majority of cases. You can use hardware that you've already got, um, and the 98% of the software that you can use is uh free and open source, it's FOSS. Um, so it doesn't cost you anything. So you haven't lost anything, maybe an hour chat with us at max. Um, but often that's a really good conversation. We well, I'm biased, but it's a great conversation because we don't only put in place a system for them, but we talk about macroeconomics and we have a great chat about the the state of the world and the state of the UK as well. Um so they'll they'll just the only thing they lose is a conversation with us, which I would say is still a huge upside.

SPEAKER_00: 9:23

So I mean it sounds to me like your typical your small retail store owner is probably your uh uh entrepreneurial, innovative type of guy, anyway, because to open a small business is really difficult uh from scratch, unless you've inherited from someone. I don't know. I mean, I don't know the UK market at all. Yeah, no James is shaking his head. Come, James, tell me why.

SPEAKER_02: 9:48

Yeah, that's it's not true. Uh so the psychology of business owners is very, very similar to the psychology of the population at large, if you profile them, right? There are opening a shop, right? Opening a retail shop is not an innovative thing to do. Yeah, I mean, it's an entrepreneur thing to do, yeah. You've got to go and get capital, you've got to organize stuff, you've got to do it. But the model is well understood. I mean, there have been market stalls and shops for thousands of years, right? It's not new. So, so I don't regard that as innovative in the way that we mean. Yeah, what we mean is people who are doing new things in in a in an existing space. So the existing space is running a store, and there are as many laggards and late adopters uh who run businesses like that as there are well, well, far more of those, in fact, than there are innovators running businesses like that. Uh, in fact, if anything, innovators probably do that kind of stuff less simply because it's a kind of known quantity, it's not exciting. What would an innovator be doing setting up uh setting up a store? Now, actually, you're you what happens is that some people don't even know that they're innovators or or the earlier, they don't even realize, and they just happen to that just be what they've done, they've just set up a store, but they behave like that. And so you so you do get some, yeah, but it it certainly wouldn't an innovator wouldn't immediately think, I know what should I do with my life? I know I'll I'll open a shop. You know, it's not it doesn't really fit with that psychology. Um, the other thing I would say is it's rather than retail stores, what we find is that hospitality spaces are better, and uh well we've certainly had more success there. Um that's because I think the market, so the Bitcoiners who are going to come and spend their Bitcoin prefer to go to a pub, to a cafe, to a restaurant, maybe choose a hotel to stay in, uh go, you know, go to you know go for dinner somewhere. It's a kind of and there's it and maybe meet other Bitcoiners in the process, maybe in a in a Bitcoin meetup or something. And Simon can talk in a moment about Bitcoin events and all of the meetups around the UK and how much that's grown as well. So so if you think about driving revenue, one of the best, the most successful areas that's probably happened has been in hospitality, I would say. So small retail hospitality, so individual pubs and individual restaurants, individual cafes, that sort of thing. I know what what what do you think, guys?

SPEAKER_00: 12:25

Well, sorry, just to uh I think I probably phrased it badly. Innovative uh was really not the way I should have said it, but maybe maybe someone who's prepared to have a go at it, uh I should have said, you know, someone who owns a store, at least they're gonna give it a crack uh and see what happens. Uh which is interesting for someone who's gonna try something new as well. You know, let's just give it a crack and see what happens. Um has there been any interest whatsoever? Um and I uh as far as corporate UK goes, or uh are you just really focused at uh hospitality, retail, smaller business? I think or do you kick that onto somebody else you know who deals with that?

SPEAKER_04: 13:09

Well, I I think sort of linking to what James was saying, I think we have the most success in the hospitality space with Bridge to Bitcoin because what we do is we, as I insinuated earlier, we all onboard merchants for free. So it doesn't cost them anything, so there's any upside. And then through another entity that Simon started up called Bitcoin Events UK, check them out on their website, sign up for their weekly newsletter. Um we are connected to the UK meetup scene. So that is essentially your customer base. Um, and so when we onboard a hospitality business, like a pub, like a coffee shop, like a restaurant, we can drive a local meetup group towards that hospitality business. So that local meetup might go, oh, we'll now start having our meetup at that pub because they accept Bitcoin payments, or we'll alternate with another Bitcoin accepting business. So we have greater success, if you like, with driving footfall to hospitality businesses. But what I would say is if you have a look on our Twitter feed and our Instagram and our Noster feed, so at bridge, the number two Bitcoin, um, if you have a look at the businesses we're on boarding, the businesses are across the the UK space, they're not just hospitality, and that sort of links into what we were saying in terms of we're looking for innovators. So innovators exist in all industries. So I think we I think I recently tweeted about Frank is a psychologist over in Ireland. Um, we've got a whole load of we've got a a sculpt, uh a sculptor, um, so she uh does headbusts, so maybe someone wants a bust of Halfinny. I don't know, I don't know, whatever they want. Um so there's a huge range of business owners or out there who we onboard. But yeah, I think we as a bridge to bit as a bridge to Bitcoin entity, we have greater success in the hospitality industry. Uh having said that, there are separate entities that we're involved in. So you mentioned corporate Gavin, so I'll hand the mic over to James for that. Um, and also maybe James, you can talk about sort of charities and not-for-profits as well. So it's a slightly different pitch and a slightly different angle. Um, so yeah, I'll I'll hand the mic over to James now.

SPEAKER_02: 15:21

Yeah, so the the thing is that uh pitch with Bridget to Bitcoin is about revenue drive, driving in revenue from the from retail customers. So it's a accept Bitcoin payments and you'll get more footfall, right? And it costs you nothing to do. As Chris said before, if you don't get anything, you've made no loss. If you get something, it's all it's all on the bottom line, basically, apart from your variable costs. Um, so so that's great, but that doesn't work with medium and large-sized organizations. So take a take a big supermarket chain in the UK like Sainsbury's. I don't know if that work names familiar to you, Gavin, or or Tesco. They they are not going to implement, I mean, apart from the fact that they both have banks inside their supermarket group, they even have credit cards and banks inside, they're that big. Um, just put that to it, put that bit to us one side in a moment, just even on their on their main business of being supermarkets. They don't, they don't, they don't, first of all, they've got very, very slick, sort of highly, highly cost-effective payment systems. You know, they can negotiate the best rates from all the payment processes and the credit card providers, and they run their own banking. So it so they're not there's not much cost saving for them in payments by moving to Bitcoin. Uh they they don't have hundreds of customers complaining every week that they don't take Bitcoin. What are you doing? You know, why aren't you doing it yet? So and they're not gonna really drive much additional revenue by taking Bitcoin. Okay, sure. Maybe some Bitcoiners might switch from Sainsbury's to Tesco's if Tesco's started taking Bitcoin. I would, but it's gonna they you're not even gonna see it in their in their sales revenue, right? It'll be so tiny that it'll be completely irrelevant. So on top of that, simply their internal project costs and program costs and the decision-making process to actually achieve that implementation would be enormous in such a large business. Okay, never mind the training of the staff and the rollout. I mean, an enormous program of change uh to know to so there would be cost for them, even if the actual tech they were bringing in was essentially free, right? Yeah, there would be cost, right? With corporations and medium-sized businesses, one day they will respond because it'll be a hygiene factor. Okay, it they'll get a bit like businesses when American Express first came to the UK, they wouldn't accept it because they charge quite high fees. Um, I remember I was quite an early adopter of Amex as a custom as a consumer because they paid me good cash back, so I'd use it wherever I could. But Marks and Spencer refused to take it. Um, John Lewis and Waitros refused to take it. So these are big uh supermarkets and department stores in the UK. But gradually, people like me turning up and going, Oh, yeah, so you don't take Amex, do you? Like moaning, right? As Amex built the custom the retail people like me owning the card, we'd go and moan, and then eventually the the market start accepting it, and then ultimately say to John Lewis and Waitro. So that's the way that you break into that market. And the reason why I accept that payment was that customers, their customers were hassling them about not taking their method of payment, right? So they basically went to Amex and said, Okay, yeah, well, let's sit down. We want to we want to take it now, but we want to bit we want you to get pretty sharp on the fees, but but they ended up paying them more so that Amex could carry on paying me cash back. So what Amex did very cleverly was use the use their new customers of their credit card in the UK as the pressure on the larger businesses to pay the higher fees so that they could pay me the cash back. That's how they built their market share in the UK. Yeah, great strategy. Um, it worked. Payment payment processing, though, is is a tiny for a large corporate. I mean, maybe it's more for something like Saintsburg or Tesco, but you could large corporates are across all sorts of businesses. Many of them are many of them are not mainly customer-facing, some are a mix, you know. Maybe they're business to business, maybe they're developing software, you know. I mean, think about maybe they're manufacturing cars. I mean, lots and lots of big businesses. Um the way that Bitcoin is going to affect and change those businesses is not primarily with them accepting it. They're not that that might be something that happens down the line. Well, I think it will be if they're still around. But but but but accepting Bitcoin is just one tactic, right? It's just one thing that you can do as a business to uh take advantage of potential, see if there's an advantage for you as this technology develops. But there are uh countless uh uh potential uh things that you could do in terms of uh the impact on what risks this technology poses to your existing business. So if you think about it from a C-suite strategic risk perspective, think about something like the impact that the internet had on every business in the world. Large, small, medium, actually, particularly the bigger ones, in fact, here. Because if you're running a restaurant, you know, it's probably not okay now. You have to deal with Uber Eats and you know, and all the rest of it, you know, it's slightly changed in more in recent years, though, more with the mobile wave than the than the sort of core internet, but it's mainly affected at the big at the high end. You know, some businesses don't exist anymore, and other businesses are like in the top businesses of the world and didn't exist then, right? So if you're a big corporate or even a medium-sized organization, really what you should be looking at as Bitcoin is a is a risk, it's a technology risk that poses uh operational risks, yes, but most importantly, I would say strategic risks. And so the key message for corporations, and and this is large organizations of all kinds, whether they're charities, non-profits, and even governments and government institutions, is what's the risk that this thing carries on doing what it's doing, carries on growing, carries on gaining in terms of overall store of value, gradually more and more businesses are using it as payments, more and more people are offering it to pay. What's the impact on our products? What product what products do we produce? Uh, what's our you know, what are our channels to market? Who are our markets? Um, how could how could the rise of Bitcoin change the demographic profile uh of our customer bases around the world? Will it be different be different in different parts of the world or or will it just happen across the world in the same way? Um basically the answer is you need to put Bitcoin onto your risk register. You need to have a couple of people in your business who have been trained and understand or are learning about Bitcoin so that they can then evaluate the risks for your business, both strategic and operational. And you can then decide what you think the likelihood of that is, what you think the time frames of that are, and then you can start to develop strategy, you know, ideas to mitigate any threats that you might observe and to exploit any opportunities that you might see opening up. So I'll give you an example. If you're a luxury brand, LVMH, yeah, biggest luxury brand corporate in the world. Um, what if there's this growing demographic of people who are outperforming their peers in terms of their wealth because they're bitcoiners, right? So you've got this new emergent demographic across the world who are going to be a larger than you would have otherwise expected without Bitcoin slice of your future market. What might you do? Well, you might create Bitcoin luxury brands, or you might promote your existing brands to Bitcoin. I mean, I mean, that's what I mean. Yeah, do you see? It's kind of about it's it's much, much bigger strategic thinking than oh yeah, LVMH, let's sell perfume for Bitcoin. You might do that, but it's a much more operational thing. You might choose to do that some that might complement something that you're doing at the strategic level. So you see this market thing happening or that might happen, and you plan to exploit it by by building luxury products for this future demographic, but starting to do it today and starting to communicate it today, and then you might bolster that by selling stuff for Bitcoin as well. But selling stuff for Bitcoin isn't the strategy, it's just an operational bolt-on, if you like. Anyway, I I've probably spoken enough there, but do you see the the difference between the big the corporates and even the middle tier and just your your mom and pop restaurant?

SPEAKER_00: 24:34

Yeah, yeah, 100%. And I think the um the big word compliance comes to mind as well. That big, mighty bureaucrat, you know, bureaucratic process. Um, smaller companies, your local coffee shop, probably not too bothered about compliance. It's not front of mind all the time, but I think the large corporates they probably have entire departments that do nothing but compliance, compliance, compliance. So I'm sure there's a whole nother thing over there.

SPEAKER_02: 25:02

And and they and they have because it's part of their compliance framework, their government's framework, they have risk registers. In fact, if you go and look at the report and accounts of I did a bit of research on FTSE 100 from 2024, they're 2024 report and accounts, all hundred businesses, and you look at the risk pages, you know, it's usually five to ten percent of the pages in their three to four hundred page annual report and accounts, is five to five to ten percent of that is about risk, right? And that is a compliance feature because they they have a they have a duty uh on behalf of their shareholders to ensure that they're not all just gonna lose their money in a year or two because they're not kept their eye on the horizon of what's happening in any any kind of new industry, or usually it would start developments in their industry, but there could be developments outside their industry that could come in and affect it, in this case, something like Bitcoin. So, yeah, it is compliance driven, and that's why you come in at the top level with a compliance risk rather than knock on the door and go, Who deals with payments in this business of 20,000 people? Just I mean, you're not gonna you don't come in with the answer, you come in with the problem, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 26:15

Yeah, and that's why Gavin that happens at a small level, as in at the mom and pop businesses, but it happens at in someone's head, in the business owner's head. So it still happens, but the business because the business is so small, he doesn't actually have a physical risk register where he writes stuff down. He just goes, hmm, yeah, I need to do that, otherwise, my business is going to be.

SPEAKER_02: 26:34

His duty is to himself and his family, and that's it. Yeah, he's got no public duty, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 26:38

Yeah, so the compliance, if if you if you think of it, it still exists, it's just it's just a much smaller process, and that's one of the big differences when we speak to mom and pop businesses or small businesses, is that the the governance and the decision making is all shrunk right down. So we can have those conversations really quickly, and those decisions can be made immediately. Like, will you take Bitcoin? What are the risks? What are the opportunities? Oh, okay. After 10 minutes, they're like, Yeah, it's a huge opportunity, I'll do it. Whereas if you were to do that with a corporation, as as both you and James have said, you know, there's there's departments to run through, and it's it's a it's a big, much bigger process to go through. Um, yeah, so fascinating.

SPEAKER_02: 27:17

So you want to come in from the top because trying to work you out from the bottom, you're gonna get nowhere. And it's not the right approach. I mean, it's just simply not the right approach to come into a large corporate and think that you somehow know that your idea of accepting Bitcoin, or I'd even go as far as putting Bitcoin in your treasury, that you know as some punter that you're gonna advise this business that's the right thing to do. I mean, it might well turn out to be, but they need to make that decision from the top and understand why they've decided that they're gonna accept Bitcoin, why they've decided they're gonna put it in their treasury, why they're gonna do this, why they're gonna develop this new range of brands, why they're gonna open up new channels. You know, they have to kind of understand because they know their businesses better than anyone knocking on the door trying to sell them some answer. And that's that's the big ticket item is that these big businesses are hugely complex. And if people outside that aren't humble enough to understand that they cannot produ they cannot produce the advice of the solution, but they can, if if they've thought this through, go in at the top level to the C-suite and go, guys, I think there's a big risk here that might be on the horizon you've not got on your risk register, right? Let me come and talk to you for an hour, and then all you need to do is put it on the register, educate a couple of staff, one in risk, one in finance, you know, anyone puts their hands up, you might find you've got a Bitcoiner in your business who's really happy to do it, already knows, right? And then just give them the job of evaluating that risk on behalf of a company and reporting back to the board. The company will do it inside itself if they've put it in at the top. It has they have to. It's their fiduciary duty. They can't not do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 29:04

Yeah. Well, that's brilliant. So if we swing it all the other way to the other scale, side of the scale, and go down to grassroots level. Simon, this is probably more up your alley. Um, the meetup, the mighty Bitcoin meetup. I mean, yeah, it sounds like you guys are smashing it out the park over there as well. Um, so what is happening in meetup space, Bitcoin meetup space in the UK?

SPEAKER_05: 29:29

Um, well, to sort of yeah, take it back to when we the three of us met, I think um it was kind of like three things. It was a perfect storm at the time. Um lightning was really beginning to become a seriously usable technology. Um we had um we'd just come out of COVID, and I think a lot of people um, you know, after being locked up in in inside and not being let out. Um Wanted to get out and meet um other people, other Bitcoiners, like-minded individuals, and that sort of thing. So I certainly um wanted to do that and started a my own local meetup. Um I realized there wasn't anywhere to to list it in the UK, like a meet um a Bitcoin-only website. So I started bitcoinevents.uk. Um that that um I listed all of the existing meetups that there was at the time. There was about 10 in the UK, and I listed all of them and invited all of the meetup organizers into a telegram group. And um, and then through encouragement and persuasion and um and just generally a bit more visibility on the meetup space, the the uh the meetups began to grow. You know, there was times where we we'd have one or two a week were popping up new ones. Um and yeah, uh now we have um there's just over 60 meetups. Um, not all of them are totally active each month, but um, but uh around probably 45, 50 hour. And um and so James, Chris and I met um in in 2022, just when when lightning was beginning to kick off and the meetup scene was beginning to grow, and we and what kind of brought it brought it all together in a way was the realization of of what we've talked talked about that that um the to to to help with leverage of um onboarding businesses, if if we have that deep connection with the the the Bitcoin community and the meetup scene, we can drive um the Bitcoiners to to the businesses. So if you're a uh uh you know a local uh baker and and you accept Bitcoin, and we've got 30 guys in the the Bitcoin meetup, we can drive them to the to that baker, and instead of using somewhere else to get their bread, they'll use that that particular baker. So it's great leverage for those businesses to um to say, okay, yeah, we'll accept Bitcoin. And um so all those things sort of came together at the right time. We've been successful at it, I think, because because we um we we have good complementary skills between the three of us, and that um that connection to the to the community, I suppose, um, is really very important. Um I write a newsletter now as well, which comes out every every Sunday morning, and um it's kind of a rundown of the week ahead of what's going on. So kind of it gives the community something to um a full full awareness of what's going on. So you know, if there's a meetup you're unaware of or you find you've got a Sunday afternoon free, you can drive drive over um to a different one that you've maybe not been to before. And um, yeah, it's it's a growing it's a growing scene, a growing community in that um everyone's families are even becoming friends, wives, children are becoming friends um within within this community. And um it's it's really important, I think, that that um it's you know any movement like this, I think, is um is really reliant on the people, you know. As um I think the saying goes, without without the people that Bitcoin is just code, it's not it's um it really strongly relies on on people and and and it being a community, you know, and and all sorts of things then can grow out of that with art and music and and um all sorts of things. So yeah, it's an important, important time.

SPEAKER_00: 34:00

Do you find uh you get questions about other cryptocurrencies? Is is there a a clear hard fast rule like right up front where this is Bitcoin only, anything else can get the hell out of you? Uh or do you point them to uh the the local scam artist down the road and say he'll help you out if you want some of that? Or how do you set the ground rules from the beginning?

SPEAKER_05: 34:23

Well, the the important thing is, and and this is where I think the Bitcoin Events UK comes in, is that I will only list meetups where the organizers are strongly Bitcoin focused, or not not strongly, but they're only focused on Bitcoin. So it's a curated list of meetups. Um that was important to start with. It's less, I mean it's still important, but it's it was it was more difficult when I didn't know the people perhaps that I was dealing with to bring in and and list on the website. Now, um, you know, I spot I suppose uh the web of trust has has reached the point now where um you know everyone is a sound uh Bitcoiner. Um and then it's up to you know, you do get people that come to meetups which are obviously just interested in crypto. That's there and a lot of people that are new come in and then they don't understand why it should be Bitcoin only. Um but as long as the meetup itself is focused on Bitcoin and not having talks about other currencies and um that kind of rubbish, um it's they get filtered and they realize through conversation on the on the on the edges of of you know there's a big group of people talking and they come in and start talking about various shit coins, then they get the they get the mood, they get the the um get the pushback from the other members because it is bitcoin focused. So it it's having that strong core um with the meetup organizers, which is the most important, uh, filters out then.

SPEAKER_04: 36:05

And the same applies to businesses, Gabin. So with our bridge to Bitcoin hats on, and also if we speak to charities and non-profits, it's definitely Bitcoin only. Um out of the three of us, I I'd probably had the most scammiest history in terms of the the biggest you um journey. So I took a that horseshoe journey through the Bitcoin space. So I I came across Bitcoin in 2017 and immediately thought, oh, this is really interesting. I like the look of this. But I put my hands up and I say, I immediately then went, but look at all these other shiny coins, and like a greedy magpie went, Oh, look, they're promising me returns of 10x, 100x, 1000x. How could I possibly ignore them? And so I took that horseshoe journey through the space and um met a number of founders of cryptocurrency firms, and even was invited to be on the board of a couple of them. But I always had the same conversation with these cryptocurrency firms. The pitch was always the same, and at the end of our Zoom calls, I would always say, Okay, that's a really interesting pitch, a really interesting coin or token you've got there. Why don't you just accept pounds or Bitcoin? And the answer was always different, but the underlying answer was always the same. And the underlying answer was always that they wanted to essentially trap their customers' money into a walled garden where they can't move that money anywhere else. Um, and that's why I and others often refer to cryptocurrencies as fairground tokens, they're literally fairground tokens, they've got no utility elsewhere. Uh, whereas Bitcoin is completely the opposite, as you know, Gavin, and I'm sure the other podcast listeners know. Um, so yeah, when it comes to businesses, we explain no, it's Bitcoin only because of the fundamentals of Bitcoin. The other coins are essentially just fairground tokens. Um, Bitcoin's the only one that is well, there is no second best to quote a famous um Bitcoiner in the space. So yeah, we're we're strictly Bitcoin. Um we explain it in gentle terms, hopefully, so we don't scare people off, so we don't come across as maxis. Um, so our intention isn't to sort of push Bitcoin down people's throats, but rather to show them how good Bitcoin is and how other currencies are not good, if you like. Um, we don't want with one one of my taglines is normalize, don't evangelize Bitcoin. So Bitcoin is are famous for being evangelistic about Bitcoin, understandably. Um, but what I find is that often scares people away because most people's journey through the spaces they come across Bitcoin, their eyes are suddenly opened, and they want to tell everyone about it, and then and then you just turn into a lunatic maxi, and everyone goes, Oh, here comes Chris again talking about Bitcoin. He's another hare-brained idea. So we're just trying to turn it down a bit and just make it make it normal again, you know. As James said earlier, you know, he'll use his his his corporate language, talk about them putting on their risk register, rather than going, it's gonna change the world, it's gonna stop wars, it's gonna, it's fundamentally gonna change how how people behave, which we think it probably will, but let's not start off with that within the first five minutes of meeting someone, because it's just gonna scare them off and everyone thinks you're a lunatic. We've all been through that. Um, so yeah, we just try and turn down the dial a little bit, and and you'll notice with the pitch of Bridge to Bitcoin. So we haven't outwardly said it, but our print our pitch with Bridge to Bitcoin is not about orange pinning business owners. I just want to emphasize it. What we do is our pitches will drive additional footfall and additional revenue to your business if you use this payment rail and if you accept this currency, but they don't have to be a bitcoiner, the business owner does not have to be a bitcoiner, all they have to be is a business owner who's just looking for more footfall towards their business. Now, if they don't, if they're not interested in Bitcoin, they can just convert that bitcoin at point of sale into their local currency if they want. But they might, after a conversation with us, realize, oh, actually, well, it's an interesting asset, maybe I'll just hold on to it anyway, because it's only going to be a small proportion of my my income anyway, or my my sales anyway. So maybe maybe we'll just hold on to it rather than convert it. But the point is they don't need to be a bitcoiner, they can just they're just a business owner that's interested in this new customer base, this additional footfall. Um, and that's what pretty much all business owners are interested in, they just want more sales, don't you? Um and that's what we promise. So we don't well not promise rather, that's what we hope to do. So it's not about orange pilling business owners. But you might say it's a Trojan horse because what we do is hopefully drive Bitcoiners to that business, and those business owners will learn more about Bitcoin. And this is one of the really important bits for me is that it almost makes Bitcoin tangible. It's as closest to being tangible it can be for business owners because they'll see Bitcoin coming into their business on their CSV files, you know, when they can download all the sales, and it looks their that CSV file looks just like the sales on the CSV file for pounds or whatever the currency might be. It's just then I have a CSV file for Bitcoin sales, so it's as close as it can be to tangible, and they're seeing it's it's having a difference, it's making a difference rather. Um, and when people see Bitcoin being transacted in real life, i.e., on a on a point of sale machine and someone using their phone to pay, it suddenly brings it to life. Um so yeah, some people might say it's a bit of a Trojan horse, and that's often what we see. Um, and I'll use the example of James onboarding a local pub to him. Um so he onboarded a local pub. Um the business owner initially was not interested until James told him that he doesn't have to keep it, he can flip it. And he got it. He went, Oh, okay, then so it is just more footful. He went, Yeah. So James onboarded that local pub. That that pub owner happened to have two pubs at the time. So there was another one in London in Chiswick. Um, so I used to live in Chiswick, so James invited me along to that one. So, oh do you want to go down to your old haunting ground? I said, Oh, yeah, I'll pop along. I that was literally my local pub, about 200 yards from where I lived. So I said, Yeah, I'll I'll go along. And whilst we were putting in place um a point of sale machine, I think it was we put in place a bitcoin eyes machine, didn't we, James? Yeah. Um, whilst we were putting that in place and making sure it was all set up and they were happy with it, the pub owner came up to us and he said, James, you know how at my other pub the the Bitcoin is being converted into GBP? We said, Yeah. Is there any chance at this pub that we can um just keep the Bitcoin? And bear in mind we hadn't tried to pitch Bitcoin, there'd be no orange pilling whatsoever. So what's happened is he'd had some Bitcoiners come along to his pub. Maybe he's done some learning himself, but he's essentially seen Bitcoin for himself come into his business, and the orange pilling had been an organic, natural process, and I think there's there's a lot of power in that rather than us being evangelistic and trying to shove it down people's throats when small business owners see it coming into their business and they get Bitcoiners come in who are the best salesmen for their business. I'll just I'll just add, because the catchment area for Bitcoiners is enormous, so Bitcoiners will travel far and wide to support a Bitcoin business. Like people will drive an hour and a half, two hours to go and buy cake at a cup of tea at a cafe. Um, we've we've been at a restaurant in South London uh for a meetup, a Bitcoin event, and an American's walked through the door who happened to be a Bitcoiner, and we got chatting. We said, Oh, how how did you hear about this event? He said, Well, I looked at btcmap.org and I saw this pub, uh, this restaurant accept a bitcoin, and then I saw there was an event, so I come along. He was in London on business, not in the area that the restaurant was. He'd chosen to travel past scores and scores of other pubs and restaurants just to get to this restaurant we were at we were at because it's accepted because it accepts Bitcoin. Um, and I call that the Tesla effect, and so much if a pub owner were to put in place a Tesla charging unit in the car park, what normally happens is Tesla drivers stop off at the pub to charge their car and have lunch while the car's charging or have a have a drink. The only reason that Tesla driver has stopped off at the pub is because there's a Tesla charging unit, not because it's got great reviews on TripAdvisor or you know on or Google reviews, because it's got a Tesla charging unit. It's the same with accepting Bitcoin payments. You put in place a Bitcoin payment rail, Bitcoin customers will come. You don't have to be a Bitcoiner, like you don't have to be a Tesla driver to put in place a Tesla charging station at your pub or restaurant, but you they will come. And it doesn't apply, it doesn't, it's not just hospitality all that. So we've onboarded, as I said earlier on the pod, um, a psychologist, um, an art gallery as well in uh northwest London. So you could be any business, and hopefully you'll attract that additional footfall and additional revenue. And it's uh yeah, it's a wonderful thing to see because you get business owners who the orange pill slowly drops, if you like. It's fascinating to see, and also local bitcoiners love it to tie into what Simon was saying because they've got a a business that the local business that they can support, and ultimately that's why we do what we do at Bridge to Bitcoin. We want to live on a Bitcoin circular economy. Um, we want to use Bitcoin for as we think it was intended, i.e., appear to be a money. Um, so it's it's the step beyond it being a store of value. So yeah, it's a great store of value, but it's also a money, and uh for whatever reason, I think sometimes that's quite a big psychological jump for some people. They get stuck on this. Well, it's the best appreciating asset, why would I spend it? You're not spending it, you're using it instead of using fiat. So I would say that fiat is just like any other cryptocurrency. I won't swear because I don't know, I don't know what your policy is on your pod, but it's like any other cryptocurrency. You know, if if if I went to a pub that accepts Bitcoin and I then paid in fiat, for me that's a bit like a kick in the ball to that pub owner. I say it would be oh, oh, you accept Bitcoin, great. Here's a cryptocurrency instead.

SPEAKER_00: 47:12

Well, here's my master card, 23% of that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 47:16

But it's you know, he's he's still winning because he's still getting extra revenue and and extra business. But the icing sorry, the icing on the cake is that he's getting Bitcoin from a Bitcoiner and we're creating that circular economy. We're adding to the liquidity of the lightning and the Bitcoin network. And for me, that makes the more we do that, the stronger that makes Bitcoin, both as a technology, as a money, and also as a community, a global community. I'm gonna stop rambling on now.

SPEAKER_00: 47:47

Yeah, I mean that's brilliant. Uh, I think the Americans call it value for value, and I think that's pretty much how I'm hearing how you describe it, where you you help somebody else, uh you you offer them a solution for their business, something that'll help them. Yeah, like your your Tesla effect, as you said. Uh something that'll draw the person there. Uh, they'll probably go out of their way, something that they want to do. The store owner benefits out of it, hasn't cost anybody anything. Uh and it is uh it's pulling people towards each other instead of uh you hammering them on the head with your orange bat about end the war, change the world, save the cheerleader, or whatever that movie was. Uh I can't remember heroes, I think it was. Um, so with this massive uh, I mean, you guys have got meetups, you've got sort of engagement with corporates, you you're dealing with smaller retail guys. Before we hit the record button, somebody mentioned a Labour Party conference. I couldn't imagine anything further away from the Bitcoin sphere, but there's got to be a story. So tell me about that one.

SPEAKER_02: 48:54

I I who got to it first, Chris. I don't I can't did did Susie, who's the CEO, I think she just emailed us, did she?

SPEAKER_04: 49:01

And said Yeah, Susie reached out to us.

SPEAKER_02: 49:02

Yeah, yeah. So Susie Violet Ward is the CEO of Bitcoin Policy UK, which is a sort of think tank and lobby group in the UK. I mean, you'd I'd I'd like to say similar, you know, mirrors the Bitcoin Policy Institute in Washington, but as with everything between the UK and America, we're always kind of and this is nothing personal against Susie or Freddie New, but we're just we're always just slightly behind the curve, you know, on these things. So but that's that they're imagine them in that role as Bitcoin Policy Institute, but in the UK, and they have decided, you know, going to the Liv to the Labour Party who are currently in government in the UK, their party conference uh in a couple of weeks in Liverpool. And they've got a sort of exhibition centre next to the conference centre, they're sort of connected, and they've got a stand there, and they just wrote to us and said that we're looking for people that we regard as knowledgeable volunteers or whatever to come and help us man the stand over the period of the of the conference. And would you would you be happy to participate? So, yeah, fantastic. Uh so yeah, Chris and I have volunteered. Uh looking forward to doing it.

SPEAKER_04: 50:09

We'll we'll excuse Simon because Simon's traveling with his family. He's escaped the fiat the fiat train, if you like, and he's now on the Bitcoin train around the world. Uh, but yeah, I'd like to shout out Bitcoin Policy UK because they they do fantastic work. It's work that I ordinarily wouldn't do, but uh Susie did reach out, so I thought we should we should do our bit. But yeah, my hat's off to all of the Bitcoin Policy UK crew, Freddie, Susie, and the rest of the team, because it's for me, it's it's possibly one of the hardest jobs in the Bitcoin space in terms of speaking to alleged policymakers and decision makers in government. The having worked at one point in my life in the civil service, I know how treakily it can be in terms of trying to affect change and trying to get things done. And it's you know, just watching from where I am, it's just painful. And I I personally would find it really hard emotionally and psychologically to do what they're doing day in and day out. So if you're in the UK or anywhere in the globe and you want to support them, check out Bitcoin Policy UK. I think they've got a lightning address if you want to send some donations to try and um help them further the cause with um educating the the UK government and uh ministers and so on. Um, I don't know, I don't know when we'll get there, but yeah, the the guys are commendable with their efforts. So we're we're going along to support them and see what we can do to try and educate um people about Bitcoin at the Labour Party conference. Who knows how we'll get on? Um for me, I I I'm looking at a bit like a hospitality trade show, just slightly different customers, if you like, uh at this show. Um, so similar setup in my head is how I'm I'm framing it. But yeah, it should be fun. We'll we'll get to speak to other Bitcoiners as well as hopefully educate some people about Bitcoin.

SPEAKER_02: 51:59

Yeah, I mean very much the same. You know, I I I you know thoroughly applaud you know all the guys at Bitcoin Policy UK for what they do, and just as Chris, exactly the same as Chris, I just couldn't, literally couldn't do it. I mean, I it would kill me to do a job like that. And so I have utmost respect for them. Um and I'm willing to help, you know, I I pay my whatever it is, however many SATS it is a year to support them, you know. Um, because they've got to, you know, they've got to have some funds to do something, you know. I mean they don't as far as I know, uh none of them take any salaries, they've their time is all kind of pro bono, but you know, there are inevitably expenses incurred. But uh um yeah, but to go up there for two or three days, I've never been to a political party conference. I don't personally see that Bitcoin's success or failure is going to have anything to do with any politician any on the planet. On the other hand, if we could you know have some influence on our government and our politicians in terms of making them aware of this technology, much as I was saying before about corporates, they could maybe make some few decisions slightly differently from the ones that they would otherwise take on a risk-based analysis or thinking, well, hang on, this thing's coming down the line. Is it gonna start thinking, well, is it gonna happen or not? I mean, if it's gonna happen, well, perhaps we should develop policies, not necessarily telling them exactly what they should do, but trying to make them start thinking about it. If we can have some impact on that, it's more of as educators than than than political advisors. We're just trying to kind of open people's eyes to what's going on and and suggest that they maybe take a look. I mean, it's hardly, it's not really rocket science, it's just talking to people. And um, yeah, I I couldn't, I I believe that really Bitcoin succeeds and is succeeding in the end, it's all from the bottom up, right? It's all from the ground up because it's value, value is something that only human beings can give to something, right? So if you take the human beings out of it, I think as Simon said earlier, it's there's nothing there. That's not only true of Bitcoin, that's true of literally everything. And so the closest physical company uh pier of Bitcoin might be gold. Well, if there were no humans around, all the gold that we've currently got lying above ground would still be bound in rocks under in the Earth's crust, right? It's only humans that valued it and therefore wasted well, it wasn't a waste, as it turns out, but spent huge amounts of their time mining gold and refining it over centuries to produce all the gold that we've we've got above ground today. So somebody valued it, and no humans to value something goes away. In a way, corporations don't value anything, their shareholders do, um, and uh and their customers do. Hopefully, the products and services that the corporation sells them. So, in the end, all value stems from human humans, and so it's it seems to me that logically it can only come from the bottom up. Now, yeah, there'll be groups of people, there'll be businesses that get hold of it, there'll be some governments who are ahead of others, um, some institutions ahead of others, um, and and and they the humans come together to recognize something and then they start to act in the in their interests or the interests of their stakeholders to to address this technology. But ultimately it's coming from individual humans valuing this thing. That's really what it's all about. Um so so yeah, I I struggle, I just I'd I'd really struggle personally to focus all of my energy on the top-down stuff because that's not where it happened where it's gonna happen, you know. It's in my view.

SPEAKER_05: 56:02

Yeah, I can't personally think of anywhere worse. I'd I'd rather rather be leased than a Labour Party conference. So I'm lucky I'm going travelling. I'm just interested to come anyway.

SPEAKER_02: 56:15

I I I agree with you. I have never been to a perturbing conference, but having never gone, you know, it's one off the it's one off the bucket list. It wasn't on the bucket list back and I write it on and then took it off.

SPEAKER_05: 56:24

You know, my bucket list done it.

SPEAKER_02: 56:27

I'm just interested to see what it's like. You know, what's the vibe? You know, what are these people really like in the flesh when they're not being intermediated by media and other people actually chatting to a few MPs or political advisors or all these all these people that hang around doing all this stuff? What are they what are they like? I don't know. And so it's an opportunity to kind of just find out, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00: 56:51

Well well, you know, the best teachers ask the best question, so I suppose that's uh what you'll be doing when you get there. Uh I I hope to get a selfie of you guys wearing tires, Chris. I expect uh clean shaven short back and sides, you know, and stuff happen all that speaking the Queen's English.

SPEAKER_04: 57:09

It's funny you you say that. So we had to submit a a photo for I guess for the I for our ID, James. Didn't did you have to submit a photo as part of your application process? Uh maybe I just I just didn't need a passport, so I just used that to go. Okay. So I I just wore a Hawaiian shirt and was unshaven. I'm not sure if that's affected my application. Yeah, probably the only person who in their ID their ID pass is wearing a Hawaiian shirt, long hair, and a slightly unshaven, but there we go. We we shall see if I smarten up. Um, I'll I'll leave that as a surprise.

SPEAKER_00: 57:44

Well, you'll have to pitch up dressed like that, otherwise they won't recognise you.

SPEAKER_04: 57:48

That's true, actually. And there was an orange Hawaiian shirt, actually, which of course I thought it had to be an orange Hawaiian shirt saying it was gonna be on the Bitcoin Policy UK stand.

SPEAKER_00: 57:58

Um, yeah, so your orange flashing sign that says save the world, save the I mean you're gonna draw a crowd for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 58:07

The the thing I've got to decide is I I somebody on boarded a bespoke tailor in the city of London uh three or four months ago, and and I never had a bespoke suit, so as soon as they've been on boarded to accept Bitcoin, I thought, right, I'm gonna go and get one. So I went to see them and I got measured up and I've ordered the suit. And and I'm fingers crossed, you know, been back for second fitting, and hopefully next week, the week before the Labour Party conference, anyway, it should be available. Um, my big question is so I'll have this new kind of bespoke Bitcoin suit, which has got a stitched kind of orange B on the lapel, and it's got in it's got a custom lining with um sort of with references to the Matrix and white rabbits and stuff. And yeah, I'm really looking forward to it as a fun thing generally. What I'm wondering is whether that's suitable for a socialist political conference or whether I'd be better in a Hawaiian shirt than a something that looks like it cost a bitcoin. So yeah, I I don't know. I think I'm probably just gonna tone it down and just wear a blue suit.

SPEAKER_00: 59:17

Your one chance to show off your new outfit, and you're not gonna take it.

SPEAKER_01: 59:21

Well, it might not, I just think it might not fit the fit the so what do you think, Chris? Do you think I just think it might be a bit bring bring it along anyway? Maybe we can assess it. We can assess it, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 59:31

Yeah, keep it behind the stand and see what see what the vibe is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, I'll do that. I'll do the same with my Hawaiian shirt. Okay. It might need jazzing. The place might just need a bit more shazam. We might need to be that sort of yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 59:52

There's always a cocktail party in one of these things, so I'm sure you'll be uh uh you'll be pulling out a little bit of flesh and uh you. know show your stuff there. Um okay so we're talking uh Labour Party which is obviously uh politics and and the the the mood um does politics in the UK affect uh people's perception of Bitcoin uh the US has just gone through this really interesting phase where I was listening to a lady working in a uh Bitcoin tech company and she said under the previous administration she didn't think they would survive another year or two. The the sort of clamp down debanking whatever they call it choke point 2.0 was in full swing uh suddenly they have a change of uh in administration and everything seems to change as far as uh government view of Bitcoin now how that's changed the view of the man in the street I don't know uh so much in the US uh what is it like in the UK? Uh is it correlated? Is it is a number go up gets people talking is it what politicians say um yeah I think I've asked my question.

SPEAKER_05: 1:01:10

Yeah I mean in terms sorry Simon did you want to go first what well I I was just gonna say maybe I think where inf inflation and everything most really very obviously getting more expensive and and um that that probably is is making the um um the pitch for Bitcoin and for you know I know we talked about not you know not going in hard and and scaring people off but but it's m much more obvious for people that that there is a problem um when you know things are getting so much more expensive each year.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:46

So I think it does loosen things up, greases the wheels on on um on making it easier for to to approach people and they get it a little bit quicker than they they would have done otherwise if we were we were um it's all it's already harder I suppose in in western countries where the where the um currencies are relatively more stable I suppose um you know it's it's easier for countries to get in Venezuela and Argentina and stuff um um where where governments are well I don't know about more corrupt because they're corrupt everywhere but um it it's um yeah it makes it easier I think the harder unfortunately the harder life gets for people um bitcoins can be more easily seen as an escape route an escape hatch for for people my idea anyway yeah for for me I mean if we zoom out and look at sort of the map look at what's happening at a macro level at the UK not just at Bitcoin um the current government seem to be strangling businesses um they're they're not they're not encouraging people to start up businesses there's no the there's no appetite it appears for new businesses new things we talked about innovators the the current Labour government couldn't be more opposite to being innovating in terms of how to drive growth and um more money to the UK quite the opposite um so I don't think it's a Bitcoin specific thing. I think you just zoom out and just go the UK government just is not business business friendly um the the ultimate goal would be to the the UK government to be a state that is Bitcoin friendly for me and that makes it attractive for not just all businesses but also Bitcoin businesses to exist or to move to the UK because they are Bitcoin friendly. Now Rishi Sunak um who was our chancellor a while ago and on the previous government he talked about being crypto friendly but nothing materialized of that that was all just hot air um so we've seen nothing to sort of draw bitcoiners to the UK or keep Bitcoiners to the UK. Now for me this is a problem again zooming out uh the UK government don't seem to be keeping people who generate wealth or who are wealthy quite the opposite seems to be happening. We're seeing people start to move away for the well people been moving away from the UK for ages but that seems to be accelerating now because of uh ridiculous tax rates that they imposing and they're proposing um and you know I know of people who have moved their businesses and who have moved out of the UK because of it.

SPEAKER_05: 1:04:49

And for me that that includes Bitcoin is in the space so it's not just a Bitcoin thing it's a a Simon Simon just stuck his hat up for example yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm I'm going next week um we're leaving and and that's been a long time coming and that's been from you know watching what's happening to the country a slow descent in you know of never never anything it's never seems to be getting better it seems to be um continually just a slow creep downwards um you know from everything from potholes in the roads to heavier and heavier taxation and regulation and you know not encouraging innovation and businesses and um there's still nice places to live in the UK there's um but there's but there's um yeah it's just a general you you want to live in a place that's got a positive kind of feel to it um and um a bit of energy and positivity that that was the case I think 20 years or so ago you know the um yeah put it the other way somewhere that's on the up Simon somewhere that's on the up but at the moment the UK feels like it's as you say I would agree it's on it's line as opposed to being on the up sorry. Yeah so I think um so yeah I'm I'm gonna I mean our our purpose for for for leaving is to is to travel around and try and find somewhere that is um feels like home feels feels like um somewhere we want to stay um it may be that we go all around the world and then find that the perhaps the UK was the best place for us in the end and um maybe it will be I I I certainly will miss the the community and that here because because the Bitcoin community certainly is has been um you know a life changing thing for me in the last few years. So um so that would be sad but I'm gonna stay deeply connected to it and keep doing the things that I do but remotely um we see the way that takes us but I think yeah I think it's a trend that we see all the time. Bitcoiners once they've accumulated a um a little bit of wealth are thinking I'm gonna do something with my life but I don't really see I don't really want to do it in in this country. And that's a problem that that people that have wealth the the first thing they want to do is is get out of the country and not stay here and and um because business the government's making it hard for businesses to to to start up. Peter McCormack talks about his cafe in in Bedford about how you know he had there's so much he just opened a coffee shop and there's so much red tape and um barriers that the government put up in front of you just to to try and bring a bit of wealth and innovation to the area. So it's difficult.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:53

Yeah I mean I I I I completely agree and what I would just say whilst agreeing with what Chris was saying I would sort of like extend it and say it feels like a deeper malaise it's not it's about the nation it's not specifically about the government I mean I'm not gonna sing the praises of the existing socialist government don't get me wrong right however we you mentioned Rishi Sunak and frankly they were just as bad. I mean there was no innovation in the Conservative party for you know what 15 years. I mean we could we could debate Brexit but I just I don't want to get on to that right that was actually quite radical which was which was one thing that I could single out that was a bit different. Whichever way it went we can we can put that to one side but generally their performance in government was highly not innovative and so it's a deeper malaise that runs through the entire institution of the state that then has this and that includes the money of course right that then has this depressing and downward downward push on anyone who's trying to survive or live a bit better or God forbid start a business and be an innovator and become wealthy and provide jobs to others there's this just this constant drag and it's not just this government and and policies that you know many policies that have only been floated in fact and we don't even know whether they're being talked about you know in in whether it's just the media who are spinning these doors or whether they're actually being thought about in the end those are kind of just moments in time and they'll but if they did implement them they'll have a a more negative effect on on the whole thing. But if everything else was up was okay and kind of on the up to use Chris's phrase um then they could implement those policies and it probably wouldn't reverse it. It wouldn't turn it in it wouldn't go from going on the up to going on the decline just because of you know two or three tax policies in one budget. You know it's a much deeper thing than that. And it spans all of the major political parties the entire political infrastructure and the entire institutional and regulatory infrastructure in the UK is my view, which includes the money.

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:12

And uh it's probably safe to say it seems to include a large part of the Western world. We're hearing these same sort of complaints coming from uh you know mainland Europe uh the US has their fair share of complaint about the size of the nation state and this thing that just gets bigger and bigger um taxes get higher. So it's kind of strange that uh it seems to be this wave sweeping the planet at the moment. You hear the odd uh beacon of light so to speak. I I think Malay in Argentina seems to be the one person surprisingly who actually is doing what he said he would do and he seems to be showing that uh reversing the socialist trend and uh deregulating reducing the size of the states is having huge positive gains on his country um but beyond the nation states we also have these other organizations you know IMF World Bank uh BIS uh World Economic Forum uh and it's it all kind of seems connected um what do you guys think is driving this I mean from talking to guys from grassroots level to small business to larger corporates and now to uh to governments uh in the next few weeks uh what is your sense it do people seem confused as to what's going on or is it a finger pointing exercise?

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:43

It's a them versus us which is what politicians famously like to do uh but uh do do do people feel it as a a a growing problem as you've just said James it's not just the current political party and some bad policies no you spoke first Simon you go I don't know do they feel it is a general problem I think I think this lines up with what Simon was and James was saying I think it's it's definitely a bigger thing I think there there's there is general unrest in the UK which I think is mirrored across the UK and we all know as Bitcoin is why that is it's because there's bad money and because of bad money um um you get people get greedy um you get debt I'm gonna reference uh Joe Bryan's what's the problem video um and I think that illustrates beautifully um what's happening in the UK and across the globe so if any of your listeners haven't seen it check out what's the problem dot com or Sats versus Fiat dot org dot org is it's create a new what's the problem dot org so no no apostrophe between the T and the S what's the problem dot org yeah so check out set aside 40 minutes 40 minutes to watch that video and it sort of illustrates perfectly from from my perspective and also many other Bitcoiners perspectives what's happening with the world and um why why things seem to be on this downward trend. So yeah I think it's a bigger thing than local government that um governments as James says it's bad money everything everything's just going to pop because of bad money essentially God this is a cheery podcast sorry Kevin we started off saying we're not really touching the sides with onboarding businesses and now it's everything's in decline Simon's pissing off around the world because he can't have the UK so we we we need some positiveness but but the thing is it's interesting what Simon said I'm I'm going off maybe we'll go around the world and we'll end up coming back to Britain because we feel that actually overall compared with everything else it's not that bad.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:55

And so the interesting thing about that is well that's a very much that's a very positive thing if that ends up because what you're saying is that you know you've gone round the world a you've had some great experiences while you do it you've looked at lots of different ways of doing it and what you come back you kind of come back with a new vision where you're kind of choosing it rather than feeling burdened with it if that were to happen right and if whereas when you go away you think well I could there are all these other places um I know I've often thought that I would sacrifice uh the level of economic development uh that I lived of the of the economy in the nation that I lived in for that sense of it being on the up so to live in an improving place even if it may be poorer.

SPEAKER_05: 1:14:43

But then you know maybe when you travel around these places and you see actually yeah when I want my luxury food from this particular supermarket that doesn't exist basically in a poorer country you live on the food that is produced within however many square miles of where you are and so there are things that we probably take for granted that are still perfectly functional in the UK and it's in it'd be interesting to actually do what you're doing Simon which is a kind of innovators thing go and try and see yeah yeah and um yeah we really like to learn off you obviously your takes priorities and values will be slightly different from ours but it'd be interesting to learn what you do experience in that journey and and what thoughts you how it makes you reappraise the UK you know yeah yeah it's gonna be an interesting um learning experience for all of us and I think and and uh yeah we'll we'll we'll see how it goes um um I'm quite positive about it people keep saying to to me oh god you must be so excited but there is a big factor of it that we're leaving what we're leaving behind now and and um our life isn't terrible here so um you know it's it's um it it's it's mixed mixed feelings of of going away for um you know an unknown amount of time with with sort of putting a a two-year sort of limit on the travel we may not last that long because we may think oh um I'm sick of living out of a bag and hopping from place to place after a year or even less even perhaps but um but yeah but Bitcoin's given us that that freedom to be able to at least do it and try it and see what happens and and um and through meeting other Bitcoiners with a lot of the the things that might be in our head as opposition to it like the kids education the homeschooling has come into it through through meeting other Bitcoiners and all a lot of our worries or opposition to it were were answered through the last few years of of you know the having a new set of friends I suppose through through Bitcoin there's a lot more open-minded people it just seemed that there was no reason why we couldn't or shouldn't do it. So um so yeah it's um I've I worked my last um possibly my last uh fiat um day last Thursday um and um so yeah it's been a been a long time in Bitcoin to to um to finally get to that point where um maybe I I can just be fully focused on Bitcoin now and and not have to worry about getting up um early in the morning and and um going to a place of work every day. So it's gonna it's gonna be different and and and probably psychologically quite difficult difficult um reversing that flow of stacking Bitcoin to now actually switching the valve to actually I've got to live on it now. That psychologically might be difficult. I'm gonna I'll I'll I'm gonna pay myself for the first time next week so I'll I'll see how we go.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:11

Well I think that's an amazing story right there is that uh you know uh the what Bitcoin has done for you uh it's put you in a position where you can now decide you're going to just move around a bit you've got some freedom you may not have had otherwise and you have opportunity um and off you're gonna go and look forward look forward to the adventure uh you know you you don't know what next week will bring or next year but uh you certainly are fortunate enough to be able to do something that many people either won't do or can't do um I think very few people really get the chance to uh make their mind up themselves and not being chased out of a country by you know persecution or government or something they get to sit back calmly over a beer think about this and decide this sounds like a great idea I'm gonna give it a crack.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:02

Yeah a lot of people are trapped within the country and they they certainly don't have the funds or or the even even if they do have the funds sometimes um it's having the passports to to be able to leave the country we're lucky and um we've got I've got an Australian passport and um but that gives us the ability to maybe stay there if we want as well and and um travel around so it's gonna be interesting and I think we're gonna learn a lot of lessons and and um um I'm gonna write about um what we do and what we learn along the way at um I've started a newsletter um to document it all I suppose and um and you can find that at the the exit nodes.com is the um is the website um if you go to that and people stick their email addresses in and sign up for that um I'm gonna hopefully um document as much of the learning process through through Bitcoin lens traveling with a family I think um should be should be fairly interesting to people hopefully well I'll certainly put that in the show notes uh as well as the other links that we mentioned about the Bitcoin policy guys as well so I will troll through and get all of that in uh we are uh about an hour and 30 in uh on the conversation um is uh if guys want to get hold of you reach out to you uh what's the best way uh Simon you just mentioned uh the the newsletter you're gonna put out any any other ways that you are uh that we can connect with you uh for me um if they want to find me on Twitter or Noster um my handle is HODL Solo on there um probably in South Africa I suppose the the uh Bitcoin Events UK is probably a bit less relevant to them but um if people want to reach out and um talk about how they can probably perhaps maybe replicate um in South Africa or any other country um what we do here and how we tie merchant onboarding together with the community building side of things um we're happy to we've we've spoken to to people from other countries New Zealand and um Iceland I think we had a conversation with a long time ago with with um different countries we've done a few more as well um so it's always good to be able to share um different people's um everyone's got different tactics and on um procedures and and methods for onboarding stuff so yeah if people want to reach out to us um for anything that we've talked about today um we're always happy to to uh chat with people and bridgetobitcoin.com is our main website there's a contact form on there where people can use that and um email us um and we'll we'll get back to them and James and Chris are sure have got other links and things that like they'd like to talk about yeah give us uh you can give us a follow on twitter or x as it's now called with bridge the number two bitcoin bridge to bitcoin um same handle on instagram at bridge to bitcoin we're also on nostril i won't read out the key the nostr key but just search bridge to bitcoin on on nostre so we're on there as well uh yeah just echo what Simon says reach out if you have any questions coming back to sort of the UK um Freddie New speaks beautifully eloquently about the state of the UK um I I I don't want to but I will reference a rival podcaster so the Peter McCormack so if you check out Peter the Peter McCormack show show number 76 Freddie New's on I think he's been on two or three times but show number 76 I think is the most recent one is an interesting quote from that show uh Freddie says so only only 17 million so roughly 25% of the working population I think are paying more in taxes than they consume in services so at the moment 17% are supporting everyone else that's a quote from uh Freddie New on that show so that's an interesting perspective perspective of uh how things are in the UK but I don't want to finish on a negative so I'll finish on some positives so some positives are um do reach out to us as Simon says so if you're a Bitcoiner and you're not accepting Bitcoin in your business if you run your own business or you work in a small business the next step is to start accepting bitcoin payments it's really easy by doing that you're supporting the Bitcoin circular economy the global bitcoin circular economy you're moving on from Bitcoin just being a store of value you're actually starting to use it as a money that is really really valuable if we're not using Bitcoin it's just digital gold and yeah that that's great but it's so much more than that we know Bitcoin is lots of things to many people but it's a fantastic global money. So do think about or reach out to us if you're not sure how to do it. Basically you just need a wallet um and then it's more complicated the bigger the business is but we can we can help you with that so do consider accepting Bitcoin payments because normalizing Bitcoin not evangelizing I think is really valuable so wherever wherever you are in the world if you can have a Bitcoin accepted ear sticker on your door in the shop front for me that just makes it more normal for those laggards or those late adopters or even those normal adopters it just makes it more normal less scary let's not forget this is a new technology and people inherently are just scared of new technology. It's perfectly normal it's why we're still alive now because we're cautious you know if that cautiousness wasn't there we probably would have killed ourselves ages ago because we would have taken too many risks so that hesitancy is normal and it's a positive when you zoom out but let's try and normalize it let's get some Bitcoin accepted here stickers on as many businesses as possible so it's just less scary like the internet is now far less scary than it was for many people um like the telephone like electricity at one point electricity was very scary the motorized car was very scary people thought that was evil at one point lo and behold why would we use this strange thing that man's created God's created horses you know this is anti-God to use motorized vehicles you know now we've moved on we're happy using motorized vehicles same with Bitcoin let's try and normalize it and also to tie in with Simon if you haven't got a local meetup do consider starting a local meetup as well because there's real value in connecting with Bitcoiners in real life in in in the meet space most of us came across Bitcoin over the internet through YouTube uh through uh a medium that wasn't in person and we get stuck in that for a little while and maybe we think it's the algorithm that brought us the Bitcoin is keeping us in this Bitcoin space which I did for a while I thought oh it's is Google just feeding me Bitcoin algorithms um but when I got out there and met people there's huge value in that because you as Simon said you make friends you realize that you're you're not nuts maybe you don't think you're nuts now but also there's a super networking effect so once you meet bitcoiners in real life that super networking effect takes your Bitcoin learning to another level and also when it comes to Bitcoin and using it and exchanging Bitcoin for goods and services it takes you up a number of notches and it just takes you to another place rather than you just being a Bitcoiner and you having Bitcoin and stacking hard and I'm not not not saying there's anything bad with that that's extremely good but there's so much more to Bitcoin so get out go to your local meetup meet other Bitcoiners you never know what's going to happen uh you're leaving Bitcoin on the table if you're not doing that as far as I'm concerned so go out to your local meetup. If you don't have one go start one up you never know who you're gonna meet the friends you're gonna make the contacts you're where you're gonna wind up in the world don't forget this is a new and emerging technology and you if you're listening to this podcast you were at the forefront of this new and emerging technology and you can play a really interesting part in this or you can be a passenger and there's nothing wrong with that either but you've got a real opportunity now to be at the forefront of this new technology by just reaching out creating some community and seeing where it goes so anyway I as as I said before we start recording Gavin we could go on and on and ramble on for ages. I just go on James.

SPEAKER_02: 1:27:38

Yeah I just thought I'd just like to sort of um you know wrap up with the you know with my sort of final final comment um so I would say what we didn't cover is that all three of us actually run our local meetup as well. So Simon runs a Northamptonshire meetup Chris runs the Surrey meetup and I run the Berkshire meetup which is just west of London. And my profile on Twitter is just and Nostor is just that it's Berkshire Bitcoin as the hash the at is Bitcoinshire. So it's at Bitcoinshire and so that's me I don't have any so I wasn't ever on social media until Bitcoin was just at what part of the the the the the journey of learning for me um not that X you know Noster is clearly the the way forward in this um but I must I I do honor X for a lot of the learning that I've done over the last few years you know and the people I've met but you do have to filter it quite hard. So there's that and then I also mentioned Bitcoin for organizations so the corporate education curriculum you can go onto the MiPremare Bitcoin so that's my first Bitcoin in Spanish Mi Primere Bitcoin GitHub just Google Mi Primere Bitcoin GitHub and it'll come up and if you look into the repositories you'll find that there's one for Bitcoin for organizations. And uh what you'll see in there today is all of the chapters but not all of them have been finally published in there. They've all been written they're just going through the sort of typesetting and final kind of sign-off process before being put in there and there's some sort there's some readmes and stuff at the top about how to approach the curriculum so if anybody who listens into this podcast wants to talk about that or has got any um interest in it uh then you know reach out to to me or or or that I think there's a there's a link in in the MPB GitHub where you can send an email as well. And uh the same uh for charities so the three of us set up a charitable trust uh to help not voluntary non profit and charities in the UK uh by helping them to onboard to accepting Bitcoin and in fact with that one we don't just do it for free we actually start giving them Bitcoin so so it's a kind of immediate win um uh so there's that um what else uh I was gonna say oh yes Conferences you said at the start, Gavin, conferences. Chris, Bitfest, are you talking at Bitfest or something?

SPEAKER_04: 1:30:05

And I saw you uh yeah, so Nathan Day has asked if I'd be on a panel or so. I might be on a merchant adoption panel at Bitfest. I know he was also looking for people to um join a panel about meetups, so I don't know if that's happening or not. So potentially I might be on a panel at Bitfest.

SPEAKER_02: 1:30:24

Yeah, that sounds quite interesting because it's a kind of one-day Nosta, one day Bitcoin, isn't it? In Manchester in the UK. So right. That's right.

SPEAKER_04: 1:30:30

I think I think it's actually over three days. So I think the Friday is an arts, uh, Bitcoin arts. Um, the Saturday is the Bitcoin day, and is the third day Nostar? I can't remember which way round it goes. Um, but that's for those who are interested, that's Bitfest in Manchester in the UK, Friday the 21st of November to Sunday the 23rd. Um, there are a couple of other conferences, aren't there?

SPEAKER_02: 1:30:54

There's uh oh, there's the B B S E Berry St. Edmunds, isn't there? That's quite soon. Yes, I don't know.

SPEAKER_05: 1:31:00

It's been a long way from South Africa though, I think. Yes, but Gavin's got a global audience, so anyway.

SPEAKER_04: 1:31:07

Stop missing Gavin. I'm sure people from all over the globe, including the UK, listen to it. Maybe people travel from to the UK to go to Manchester or the Bury St. Edmunds um Bitcoin event. So it's possible. I'm not sure when this is being published, Gavin, but if it's published in time, um that's on Saturday, the 20th of September. Um, so I'll be there. Um I don't I'm not um I don't think I'm speaking, um, but I'll be there. So uh do come see us. James will be, I don't know if you mentioned this pod, James will be speaking in Oxford. Um yeah, that day.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:42

Fortunately, I can't go to the Congress because I was doing a lecture at Oxford University actually on Bitcoin. Um to alumni. So they have this alumni weekend where alumni come back to meet up with each other and attend various uh intellectually uh uh engaging uh lecture content, you know, around the university. And I I'm doing uh a talk on the history of money and uh and Bitcoin. Uh so I'm quite excited about that because uh there won't be many Bitcoiners there because they'll all be in Bury St. Edmunds. So apart from one or two who I who I know will be there. Um the rest of them will just be kind of middle-aged, probably, or uh just pre-retirement or post or retired people who went to Oxford University back in the day. They're probably lawyers, worked in finance, accounting, you know, you name it. They're generally fairly high up the establishment, so it's gonna be quite interesting. I'm really quite excited about that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:32:44

So yeah, I I was gutted when the dates came out and there was a clash because I really would have liked to be a fly in the wall at that go along and sort of hide in the wings as best as I can, even though I obviously won't physically fit in.

SPEAKER_02: 1:32:57

Yeah, so it says it will be live streamed, but I'm guessing that if it is, it will also be recorded. So I I'm going to cover that off with them and make sure that it is recorded, it's live streamed because yeah. Why would why would you not if you're gonna go to the F for live streaming it? Why would you not record it? I mean, and then obviously share it with the Bitcoin community and you can take a look. And by the way, you'll find the Barksha Bitcoiners Noster ID in the X profile of Bitcoin Shire. Yeah, so so again, you can you can find me, or you can use uh what is it? Is it knit 105 or something? The the the thing where you can link names across what what do you think, Simon? Is that not the thing?

SPEAKER_05: 1:33:41

I can't remember.

SPEAKER_02: 1:33:42

I can't remember, but yeah. Anyway, if you if you s if you find if you find Barkshire Bitcoin is which is at Bitcoin Shire, you can find the Nost the N pub there and you can come across uh to uh to to find us on Luster.

SPEAKER_05: 1:33:56

Cool, or just a follow list of somebody else. That's always a good way on on Noster is to uh is to see if you find one of us or one one thing, look through who you can use. The web of trusting and the web of trust exactly. You'll find others, yeah.

unknown: 1:34:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:34:10

A couple of things I want to add on to add some more positives because we talked about decline lots, but I'll add add some more positives to finish off. I'm I'm actually hugely positive about the future, even though there seems to be a gradual macro decline. Um, I'm more positive than I've ever been about the future and you know, my my kids' future and you know what Brick Bitcoin has has brought me. So I'm really excited for what the future beholds, even though there seems to be a general decline with what's happening in the world. I think there's huge upside that's happening. I'm really excited for what my kid what my kids might be doing, what the future holds for them. Um yeah, the possibilities are endless.

SPEAKER_02: 1:34:54

It's we've just got to turn the corner on the money, haven't we? Before I agree with you, I'm hugely positive, and it's just you're on this kind of down, and you just don't know how far down it's gonna go before it sort of bottoms out and starts to get out and rearrange the world around Bitcoin, basically, you know. But that's the thing, it feels it's quite stressful because you don't know quite how far we're going down before we get it.

SPEAKER_04: 1:35:19

Well, I think that inflection point might be will be a very gradual inflection point. Um and I think I think it'll be quite a slow inflection, um, which I think is a good thing. Um I don't think we want a a rebound, if you like. Um but I'm I'm excited for the future. I'm excited for the fact that you've you've got this podcast, Gavin, because it shares uh Bitcoin and what's happening across the globe. And you know, it's really fascinating hearing about all the things that other Bitcoiners are doing to further Bitcoin and share Bitcoin with other people who haven't come across Bitcoin before. Um I think it's great. I'm I'm excited. So thank you for having us on the show, Kevin.

SPEAKER_00: 1:36:02

It's a pleasure, guys. It's been amazing listening to you. And I think what's really come through in this episode is how much energy and effort each one of you guys are putting in. Uh, we spoke a little bit about value for value earlier, and I think what you guys are doing is amazing. You're clearly putting in tons and tons of effort. Uh, you get nothing out of it in return beyond just educating, meeting, networking, and just sharing this amazing technology with people. So that is amazing to hear. And I would really love to uh do a regular broadcast with you guys, um, you know, once every few months or even once a year, and just catch up on what's happening in the UK. Uh, the podcast that I do is pretty South African focused, but it's awesome to just lift our heads out of the scrum every now and again, have a look at what's happening. I can't quite say over the pond, it doesn't have the same ring without an American accent, but uh across the many continents, uh, and just and hear what you guys are up to. So uh I would definitely reach out to you guys and try and make this a regular uh occurrence. Uh it's been so cool to have you guys on the show. Thank you for the work that you've done. Thank you for the extra time that you've given to us as well. Uh, I would just say that this is probably the first time the links in the show notes will be longer than the transcript of the entire show.

SPEAKER_04: 1:37:20

One more link to chuck in there: bitcoinevents.uk. Check out the uh meetups. Um, so if you if there are any South Africans coming to visit the UK, which there are lots, uh, do check out what meetups are happening. Uh if you do come and visit the UK and go and go and visit one. Um, hopefully it will be a Bitcoin accepting business and go meet some UK Bitcoiners because it's fascinating how we all see Bitcoin in a slightly different way. And there's there's loads to learn, as I said earlier, when you meet Bitcoiners in real life. Um, so hopefully um I'll meet some new South African Bitcoiners soon.

SPEAKER_05: 1:37:58

Subscribe to the newsletter, and if you're coming on holiday, absolutely subscribe to the newsletters so you can see you can plan it out for your holiday.

SPEAKER_00: 1:38:07

And just just from our side, I would like to add that if anyone is a bitcoiner and they have not had the experience of going to a store that accepts Bitcoin and paying for something uh using their Bitcoin wallets, I promise you it is not the same thing as transferring Bitcoin from one wallet to another. It it is almost someone mentioned earlier on, Simon, I think it was you, about those moments where you remember for the rest of your life where you were when that happened. And uh I promise you the first time you do a Bitcoin transaction for some sort of uh uh product or service in a store and you get given something back is really one of those moments. Uh, you you will remember that feeling of that little green check mark or whatever you get on your wallet. So it's amazing. So thank you guys for that. I appreciate your time. Uh wish you well and hope to see you again soon. Have a great Sunday.

SPEAKER_04: 1:38:58

Thanks for having us.