Let's Talk Politics

Ep 35: Manufacturing Resilience - Canada’s Fight for Industrial Survival

• Julia Pennella • Season 1 • Episode 35

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Trade wars have real consequences, and right now Canada's manufacturing sector is absorbing the shock of escalating US tariffs firsthand. When steel and aluminum tariffs jumped from 25% to 50%, they didn't just change numbers on paper – they fundamentally altered the landscape for thousands of businesses and workers across the country.

Matt Conley, Manager of International Trade and Skills policy at Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters (CME), takes us inside the industry's fight to navigate this uncertain terrain. The data paints a sobering picture: manufacturing has shed 55,000 jobs since February, merchandise exports plummeted 10.8% in April (the largest drop in nearly 17 years outside the pandemic), and investment decisions are frozen as businesses struggle to plan amid unpredictable border conditions.

What makes this situation particularly challenging is the deeply integrated nature of North American supply chains. That iconic "Canadian" product you love might contain components from both sides of the border – meaning tariffs don't just hurt exports, they can also increase production costs. This interconnectedness is precisely why CME led a delegation to Washington DC for 23 meetings with lawmakers from both parties, in both the Houe of Representatives and the Senate, advocating for a North American approach rather than tribalistic trade policies.

The conversation expands beyond immediate challenges to explore potential solutions: the renewed push for "Made in Canada" manufacturing, provincial premiers coming together to dismantle internal trade barriers, and the possibilities and practical limitations of market diversification beyond the US. Throughout these discussions runs a common thread – the remarkable resilience of Canadian manufacturers who continue to adapt and innovate despite unprecedented headwinds.

Whether you're directly connected to manufacturing or simply concerned about Canada's economic future, this episode offers crucial insights into how trade tensions are reshaping our industrial landscape and what it means for all Canadians. 

Quick Heads up: this episode was recorded on June 6, 2025, so while the news may have changed since this conversation was recorded that thought and ideas still remain relevant. 

Share your thoughts on the importance of stable trade relationships and manufacturing's role in our economy!


Julia Pennella:

Welcome back to let's Talk Politics, the podcast where we break down the political and economic forces shaping our world today. Joining us to unpack everything happening in Canada's manufacturing world is Matt Conley, manager of International Trade and Skills Policy at Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters. Matt brings a strong mix of experience to the conversation. Having worked at two of Canada's leading consulting firms, strategy Corp and Deloitte, and served on Parliament Hill as a senior advisor to the Minister of Immigration, he understands how government and industry work and where they intersect. In today's episode, matt's giving us an inside look at how US tariffs are threatening Canada's manufacturing industry, how CME is engaging directly with US leaders to highlight our tightly integrated supply chain and what he thinks the Canadian government must do to keep our sector globally competitive and resilient. Before we dive into today's episode, here's a quick wrap-up on the fast-moving stories making waves around the world.

Julia Pennella:

First up, the G7 summit is underway in Canada and things are already off to a rocky start. Prime Minister Mark Carney and President Donald Trump kicked off the week with an early one-on-one. The focus was a deal on trade and security and hopes that Trump would back off those heavy tariffs hitting Canadian steel, aluminum and autos. But just one day into the summit, trump abruptly left after the G7 dinner to respond to the Israel-Iran conflict. Speaking to reporters from Air Force One after leaving Canada, trump said he was looking for quote real end, not a ceasefire. A real end, end quote to the conflict, predicting that Israel would not be easing its attacks on Iran. His departure means he's skipping key talks with non-G7 leaders like India's Prime Minister Modi, mexico's President Claudia Shea Boom and Ukraine's President Zelensky, all expected at the summit on Tuesday.

Julia Pennella:

Leaders are shifting focus to the escalating Middle East crisis as Israel intensifies its campaign to shut down Iran's nuclear program campaign to shut down Iran's nuclear program. And, in tragic news back in the US, minnesota State Representative Melissa Hortman and her husband were killed in what officials are calling a politically motivated shooting. State Senator John Hoffman and his wife were also attacked and wounded. The suspect has been identified and is still on the loose. It's been a turbulent week in politics, both at home and abroad, and we're here to break it all down. Quick heads up this episode was recorded on June 6, 2025. So, while the news may have changed since this conversation was recorded, the thoughts and ideas still remain relevant. So let's talk politics with Matt Conley. Matt, thanks so much for joining us today.

Matt Conley:

Thank you, julie. I really appreciate being on the call today. It's a good opportunity, thank you.

Julia Pennella:

It's such a timely conversation as well with everything that's going on politically, economically. So I want to start off how vulnerable is Canada's manufacturing sector especially when we look at auto, steel and aluminum to these renewed US tariff threats, and is there a contingency plan in place at your industry and maybe in the government level?

Matt Conley:

Those are two fantastic questions, julia. And certainly no question. It's a difficult time for manufacturing. If you work in the space, you've been hit with a number of headwinds recently, but even in the past few years, I mean, if you're a manufacturer, you've dealt with everything from COVID-19 to supply chain and labour disruptions, and then now the tariffs are really causing a lot of uncertainty in the industry. So if you're manufacturing, it's really shown the resilience and ingenuity that the sector has been able to put forward. For example, even this week too, we saw an increase from 25% to 50% on aluminum and steel tariffs, and for a lot of members they were hurting at 25% and they could kind of weather the storm that way. But 50 is going to be a challenge and so it's tough because it's going to be a rough summer as far as job losses and business closures and even no possible sales of companies, and so really tough right now to be in the manufacturing sector.

Matt Conley:

And so, from the government, cme has been actively engaging and really our big approach has been to tell the government to take a flexible approach, because we know the information that we have right now, but we don't know what comes ahead either, because we're still getting signals from the US administration. There could be other possible tariffs on other types of goods or other types of industries within manufacturing. And so what we've been telling the government is be flexible and really get creative as far as the supports and contingencies that you can offer. The Canadian government has been quick to provide reciprocal tariffs on different goods to be able to send a message to the Americans. And so what we've said as CNE is if you could prioritize finished goods or, as opposed to tariffing inputs or other items, that goes a long way, because for a lot of manufacturers they rely on the integrated supply chain that we have with the United States.

Matt Conley:

Oftentimes they get a lot of their inputs and a lot of their goods exclusively from the United States because we've had such a strong relationship, and so when you add a reciprocal tariff on that, you're hitting the manufacturer in both areas. They can't send their goods, but they can also receive their goods as well, that they need to operate. And so we've said you know, stay away from the inputs if you can, but it's a challenge and we're working as closely as we can with the government. I don't end either position. It's a challenge because it's a difficult balancing act between the manufacturing sector and other sectors across the board, but we're all working together to try to come to a good solution on this and support the sector.

Julia Pennella:

Yeah, I appreciate that response and you and I have both worked in government. We know government is a juggling act. The ball's moving while the other two are in the air. So we're dealing with tariffs, we're dealing with the affordability crisis, we're dealing with the housing crisis, like it's kind of a nonstop of issues. I want to lean into the point, and I know we're just coming off the federal election. Our government offices are staffing up, but you mentioned that your recommendation of having those conversations with the government about being flexible. How have they been receiving that response? Are they open to it? And I'm curious as well have you had any signaling from opposition parties about where their priorities are to help support Canadians and maybe hold the government accountable during this time?

Matt Conley:

For sure. That's a really good question, and in the last election it was interesting because we did a webinar with all of our members where we analyzed all the different policies and the platforms that each party put forward. And no question I mean, each of the major political parties had a different tone as far as they took to the narrative of the election, but what was really fascinating is that when you looked at a lot of the policies, there was a lot of commonality between each of them. There was all different types of supports for manufacturers and, in face of the tariffs, there's been talk about national defense as a priority and investing in infrastructure in the north. There's certainly lots of talks about the immigration system and what labor could look like, but what we found is actually there was a lot of commonality in what they were saying in the platforms than what came across during the election, and so that was encouraging, because it was good to see that everyone was on the same page to support manufacturing so many different flavors as far as your political bent and how you would like to see things implemented, but really encouraging to see everyone on the same page that way.

Matt Conley:

So we have a government now and so we're working with all political parties to advance those priorities, but for the most part, it's good, when we have a good standpoint, that everyone can agree that we need to support the sector in light of the headwinds that we're seeing. As far as the flexible approach, I know that finance has been trying to keep its powder dry, like when you have a lot of these discussions. You know we talked about the uncertainty and wanting to make sure that they're not using all the tools at their disposal, and so they've been very cautious as far as what they can do, which is expected, and so we're just plowing ahead and seeing what comes and year for the sector.

Julia Pennella:

Yeah, well said and I totally agree with you. Like it was reassuring to see that unified approach across the different parties of this is an issue. How are we going to approach this and how are we going to support Canadians? How are we going to be some more push towards increasing and supporting the domestic steel and aluminum manufacturing sectors? And, on that note, unpredictability under the Trump administration are sending shockwaves through markets, industry and policymaking circles. How is Canada's manufacturing sector engaging with Washington to get clarity on what's coming next, if they're giving any signal to it? Are we seeing any coordinated advocacy efforts between Canadian and American business leaders to push back against these looming tariff threats?

Matt Conley:

Absolutely, and I'm very happy to speak to that. From the start of the tariff situation, there was certainly a Team Canada approach and different organizations like CME and others, including the chamber of commerce, the business council they all got involved and wanted to make sure that there was an approach to start engaging with the americans. So our board in particular I'd actually just recently joined cme. At the time they gave me a point to say you know, we want to go to washington, we want to make sure that we're engaging. You know the people that matter, and so whoever we can get the ear of to have these conversations and to make the case for the importance of trade with the US and in Canada, let's have those conversations. And so our president and CEO, dennis Darby, and members of our board and myself and a few others, we led a delegation to Washington DC in March and we met, with 23 meetings in two days, with the Democrats and the Republicans, and so we had a day on the House of Representatives side and a day on the Senate side, and so we met with everyone that we possibly could. We talked to staffers, we talked to key stakeholders, we met with some politicians as well, and just anyone that we can make the case not just for Canada, but also for the US. So many of the members that we brought were able to tell stories about the US footprint and the manufacturing efforts that have for American jobs and for the American local economies, and so we were able to take that message and really emphasize the importance of the free trade agreements that we have between the US and Canada and the friendship and prosperity that it's generated. And there was a lot of good takeaways from those meetings because, like I said, we met with Democrats, we met with moderate Republicans, we met with, you know, the more MAGA Republicans that are more supportive of the Trump agenda. The one thing that was particularly comforting was there was no talk of 51st state. There was no mention about Canada's sovereignty. It was all a very friendly reception from everyone that we met with, which made me feel great that you know you're in the capital of the most powerful nation on earth and they're happy to see you and they see you as a friend, and so that was a good starting point to say okay, you know, that's just something we can talk through. But we sensed a lot of uncertainty from the congressional leaders. A lot of them were saying look, you get your news and your information the same way that we do from the TV and from social media, and so they said that they were looking to use the administration and talk to Trump and the team, but for the most part, though, they were getting the same information about the same rate that we are. It was very encouraging, though, like certainly, people recognize the value of Canada, and that was great.

Matt Conley:

We got a couple questions about fentanyl, but as soon as we mentioned the $200 million investment at the time, not to mention now with the new bill that has been put forward, those concerns about the border quickly went away, and so, really, the big thing that we left with was we need to keep telling these stories, we need to keep engaging the Americans, we need to keep having the discussion, because that free trade agreement and having an agreement is so important, and so we've been working with our counterparts in the US. So there's an organization called NAM, which is the National Association of Manufacturing, which is based in the US. There's another organization called Concomitant, which is based in Mexico. There's another organization called Concomin, which is based in Mexico, and so we've been working very closely with them to continue to have these discussions and quite a few of our members actually have operations in all three countries, cme in particular.

Matt Conley:

We've taken the approach that it's not just about Canada and the US. We need a North American approach. So it's important to make sure all the partners are involved. And yes, there are challenges with USMCA, and so our message has been let's have the discussion. It's set for renegotiation in 2026. But if you want to have those discussions sooner, let's sit down at the table, let's get to it, because we have a good thing going. There's been a lot of prosperity for a number of years and it's still important.

Julia Pennella:

Yeah, well said and what's coming to mind. I worked on the Labour file and it's really important to have these early on conversations rather than having those reactive conversations to your point about, you know, 2026 that's when the negotiation for the free trade agreements coming up. But having those pre-conversations are so critical and, as I mentioned, I worked on the labor file. And same thing with collective bargaining. When it comes to that, like it shouldn't be the last minute when stakes are high and tensions are high, that we are going to negotiate. Like let's do this, have those open conversations beforehand, and we're going to talk about USMCA.

Julia Pennella:

But I want to ask you just a follow up question to your time in Washington. Did you notice a difference between maybe some of the border senators versus maybe some of the senators that you're meeting with across America? And the reason why I bring that up is I know we've seen already the impacts of Canadians not traveling to the US. We're seeing the major airlines cutting some of their flight routes there. There's been push I think it was in California to encourage Canadians to come. You know we're open for business. We love you guys. So, yeah, I'm curious if you've seen in your meetings or conversations that difference between the border senators versus throughout America.

Matt Conley:

You know, it's really fascinating because when we started our engagement efforts to secure meetings, we took that approach as well of looking at the different border states, but by the end of it, what we found is that it's throughout the United States, though, that we have an impact and where people care about Canada.

Matt Conley:

Actually, one of the first meetings we confirmed with was with the senator from Oklahoma, because it's very important for energy and refining.

Matt Conley:

But no, it was interesting because, as we got meetings, it was very diverse across the number of states and wasn't just restricted to the border, but, like even especially in the South and parts of the Midwest, they know about Canada and it's something that they think about and is important to them too, which again, is a bit counterintuitive. But ultimately, when you think about the impact, it's not surprising. And actually, what we found as well from our engagement efforts is, by the end, we had a lot of people that wanted to stay in touch, and we've been able to grow and maintain those relationships no-transcript ones that we met with, and so what we could tell is basically, just by having those conversations and continuing to spread that message. You know, certainly we won't take full credit for the reactions and how they're supporting Canada. But everyone has a small part to play, and so we're here to do that and support our members and continue to take that message to Washington.

Julia Pennella:

Well said. And I just want to say too, like I think it's so critical for governments to leverage stakeholders like you guys. You know other ones, like the auto industry, because, look, like you said you don't want to take credit, but I would say you should take the credit. You helped facilitate that conversation. You planted that seed of we care about you guys. But how can we have these conversations? So I mean I'm going to congratulate you for that. That's some great work. And even just starting on the job right in March of when all of this is kind of blowing up and being thrown at us like kudos to you for being able to organize that.

Julia Pennella:

And I also want to ask you, while we're talking about Washington, because I think as Canadians, there's a celebrity nature around American politicians, like even before the chaos that's happening now. But like I'm curious, you've worked and walked through the halls of Parliament Hill. How was that experience walking in Washington at the Capitol? What was it like to be? I'm sure you're a political nerd and like obsessed with this and West Wing, so I'm curious, what was that experience seeing both of these like powerful nations and where legislation gets done?

Matt Conley:

I'm absolutely gonna political nerd out on that one for sure. It was super cool. I mean like, yes, I'm a big fan of all the political shows, whether it's the West Wing or House of Cards or all the different shows that talk about Washington, and it was an incredible experience to walk around in the halls and see a lot of people that you see on TV, so that was incredible. What was really neat, though, is that it did feel familiar to Parliament Hill, in the sense that you know the buildings from the outside. They often look really grand, but, as you you know, you get inside.

Matt Conley:

Certain politicians have smaller, cramped offices. We actually had a couple of our meetings in the hallway just because there wasn't enough room in the office for everyone to be able to sit down, and so it kind of felt a bit familiar that way, just the hustle and bustle that you feel around Parliament Hill and just that energy, and so that actually like put me at ease, and it made me feel comfortable there that, in a lot of cases, it doesn't matter if you're engaging in meeting with people on Parliament Hill or Capitol Hill. There's a lot of commonality in how these meetings are done and how you have these discussions, and so yes, no question, it was a dream come true and very much look forward to going back to Washington, the next chance that we get.

Julia Pennella:

Yeah, such a cool experience. I'm so glad you got to experience that and also share a little bit of that with the listeners here. Do you have any data or projections on the economic costs this trade war will have on Canadians, manufacturing and the export sector? You know whether it's lost revenue, the cost of counter tariffs, which we've also seen recently announced the impact of, or even just the added tax burden on goods Like. What are we really looking at in terms of costs to the industry if these tariffs are implemented?

Matt Conley:

Your timing is actually perfect because there was some data that came out from the Canadian government this week and, as expected, unfortunately it wasn't very good. So just this week it was announced that for Canada's merchandise exports, those dropped 10.8% in April and this is the biggest decline in nearly 17 years, outside of the pandemic, and so this was huge. Manufacturing also shed 12,000 jobs, so that was the fourth consecutive monthly decline For the whole year. The sector has lost 55,000 jobs across the country since February. So certainly manufacturing is feeling the pinch and it's a challenge.

Matt Conley:

The big thing that we see on the ground from our members is just the uncertainty. They're just not sure how to respond and what to do, and unfortunately what that does is that it freezes up investment and so, like I was talking with a member the other day that said you know, hey, I still want to buy some equipment. It's coming out of the US, but I'm a smaller manufacturer. If I order that equipment it's going to go on the truck. It's probably going to take, you know, three to four weeks to get to Canada. How do I know that? A tariff won't be in place to David across the border, and the sad part is that I had to say, look, your guess is as good as mine. We don't know when we're doing our best to navigate the situation, and so what that means is that that's capital that's left on the shelf and that equipment doesn't get purchased, which means less capacity, less jobs, and even for a lot of our members, they worry about who their customer is going to be, what capacity that they're going to need, and so these are all the factors that go into the uncertainty that's been created by the tariffs of what the future looks like, and the end result is that it paralyzes the industry and people in the end don't do that hiring or don't purchase that equipment.

Matt Conley:

One of the things that I've been really encouraged by the manufacturers is that they're a hardworking and innovative and smart bunch, because basically, they looked at this problem and said, okay, I have excess capacity, how can I find a new domestic client and somebody that I can make products for? Or, on the flip side, if you're saying, look, I can't readily get my input from the US, how do I find a Canadian supplier that can do the same thing? And at CME, one of the things that we did is, in Ontario, we launched a business-to-business tool where, basically, manufacturers can post different jobs, whether they have excess capacity or whether they can supply certain items, and we almost kind of do a bit of a speed dating to try to link together those manufacturers, and so those are some of the innovative things that manufacturers are doing. But even from the start, and even from the beginning of the tariff situation, people picked up their socks and said Kate, let's get working here.

Matt Conley:

But certainly it's a scary time and, like I said, I think we're going to see job losses, we're going to see different closures and it's sad because we're really proud of the manufacturing that we can do in Canada and the things that we can create. That shouldn't be lost. But the manufacturers are there working as hard as they can and you just have to keep on keeping on.

Julia Pennella:

Yeah, and I appreciate that insight and just that one example you gave. I'm just shaking my head because it's so frustrating the uncertainty of it. We're hearing economists call this stagflation. Because there's so much uncertainty, we're not going to be spending, we're not going to be hiring Businesses. Industries are struggling to figure out their budget, whether they can hire those people and what their strat plans are.

Julia Pennella:

And one of my other guests as well. He's the chief economist at the British Columbia Real Estate Association. He said something that I keep coming back to is uncertainty is a vibe, because you can't quite quantify it right, Because you can have these anecdotal stories where capital is being left on the table, but some people might be taking that risk, Some others might not be Keeping a close eye on your stock portfolios. All these things are impacting the market and I want to go back to your point on.

Julia Pennella:

We've seen this renewed political push as well as industry push for a made in Canada economy. We are seeing a move towards economic nationalism and even signals from the federal government about prioritizing nation-building projects despite not delivering a spring budget. I'm just going to throw that out there. But you know we also have seen the premiers of all of Canada's provinces are coming together. Ontario, notably, really pushed the boundary in the envelope by signing on agreements with six other provinces to tackle internal trade barriers. From where you sit, representing the sector, what are the biggest policy hurdles still holding Canadian manufacturers back from building strong domestic industries and competing globally?

Matt Conley:

Absolutely. That's a key question, and so, first of all, I want to talk about the Made in Canada portion of it. It's been incredible just to see the wave of patriotism that's swept across Canada. You're seeing lots of people taking more of an interest in where their products come from. Where does their favorite items whether it's food, whether it's consumer products or other things that they use in daily life and so they're really taking an interest in where it's made and how it's made.

Matt Conley:

The challenge is that oftentimes, though, it can be really complicated to figure out how Canadian a product is, or even if a product has an American brand that's iconic and well-known, the Canadian inputs that go into that. So, for example, when we went to Washington DC, we brought our board chair, who owns a brewery, and so the beer is all made in Canada and as many inputs as possible for the beer itself, but many components of the can come from the US, and it's a critical component to making sure the cost stays below a certain level, so that way you can enjoy that beer at the price that you want to pay, but it's still an iconic Canadian product. On the flip side as well, like I know different food manufacturers that even to make something like a jar of tomato sauce. The carrots and tomatoes will often come from Canada, the peppers and celery will come from Mexico, and some of the other inputs, whether it's the garlic or the onions, will come from the US, and it all comes together to make one kuzma can of tomato sauce, and so, again, it can be difficult for people to see, and so it's nice to see that people want to buy Canadian, but even sometimes not purchasing those American brands hurts Canadian jobs because of the inputs and downstream, but it's certainly a good conversation to have of how people are consuming products and looking into where things come from. So, to talk about the premiers, that's also been encouraging as well. The prime minister had a meeting with the premiers, and that's certainly positive. There was a lot of good feelings around the table and you typically see that with a new prime minister which is good, and so it's important to keep that momentum. The key thing to be watched for at CME is yes, it's good that the premiers are having these discussions, and they're saying a lot of the right things and breaking down interprovincial trade barriers and opening up for more and better internal trade.

Matt Conley:

The challenge, though, can often be the follow through. And it's not to say that anyone you know is operating in bad faith around the table. We do believe that everyone across the table is operating in good faith and wants the best for the country. Cme is a nonpartisan organization, so we work with parties of all stripes. But the challenge can be that as you start to work through the bureaucratic process and you know political capital can take its toll.

Matt Conley:

Some of those interprovincial projects can get left by the wayside because they're just that challenging, because you need coordination between provinces, between departments, and that political will and so that's where organizations like CME play a critical role is that we're there to remind the provinces and the federal government, like you know, hey, you made this commitment. This would be excellent for manufacturing, this would be excellent to support the sector. Can we follow through on this? Can we get this over the line? And so we're super encouraged and we're optimistic. It's really good to see that this much political will focused on national and internal projects in Canada to move goods, to move energy, to standardize different labor standards so that we can work across provinces. But it's just a matter of just cheerleading and making sure that it gets over the finish line and it can be good for the sector. So lots of good news and we're encouraged and it's starting in a positive direction. But we just got to keep that momentum going and get to the end.

Julia Pennella:

Yeah, well said and I agree with you. And one thing that I think is reassuring is when we hear the prime minister speak is we don't need 13 economies in Canada, we need one Canadian economy. So I totally agree with you. We have the momentum. Let's keep it going and it's again.

Julia Pennella:

I want to emphasize how great and critical stakeholders like the Canadian manufacturers and exporters are to help establish these conversations, hold them accountable, to make sure that their fingers on the pulse on these issues. So, again, kudos to the work you're doing. I want to talk about, as we're growing Canadian industries and you mentioned how intertwined we are, especially with the Americans. In light of recurring trade tensions, how realistic is it for Canadian manufacturers to reduce their reliance on the US and pivot toward Europe, asia or other emerging markets? And I think this question is a bit timely as we're gearing up for the G7. Welcome our industry leaders and political leaders. We just wrapped with the B7 in Canada. But, yeah, I'm curious like, from your perspective, on the manufacturer side, can we pivot towards those emerging markets and other markets?

Matt Conley:

For sure. That's an excellent question and, like any good business leader will tell you, over-relying on any one single customer can be dangerous. So you should always diversify and always make sure that you have different revenue streams and different ways of helping your business and making sure that you can sell to different markets. That being said, I mean the US is the largest economy in the world by certain metrics, and has always been an excellent source of commerce for Canadian companies, because, at the end of the day, it's really easy just to be able to put something on a truck and set it down to the border, and so that's something that Canadians have come to rely on. And, no question, working with the United States will always be a top priority, and so that's why it's critical that we have a deal and that we have an agreement that works for both sides of the border and we include Mexico as well in that and so, certainly, working with the United States is always a top priority that can't be ignored.

Matt Conley:

That being said, cme is happy to see that the interest in diversification across other markets whether it's with the United Kingdom, with the EU, with different Asian markets or emerging markets as well the challenge there will be getting the right infrastructure.

Matt Conley:

And so, again, that comes back to the federal government working with the provinces to make sure that we can move energy products, whether they're traditional oil and gas or renewables, whether it's you know, we have the port infrastructure to be able to ship something to Japan or the United Kingdom.

Matt Conley:

So, like it's certainly something that I think manufacturers will be open to and to diversifying and growing, and Canada has the tools we have organizations like EDC and some other government supports as well to help people diversify. But the key is going to come down to the infrastructure to be able to move goods and make sure that they get there on time. And so, you know, certainly we're encouraged and we're looking forward to greater relationships with other countries and building out and sharing Canadian goods with the rest of the world. I mean, we make some fantastic products in Canada. The craftsmanship's there, the ingenuity's there. We just need the infrastructure to get it to market. But at the same time, we can't forget that having a strong North American supply chain is critical, and that's why it's important to get back to the table and continue to have those discussions.

Julia Pennella:

Yeah, absolutely and well said. Yeah, absolutely and well said. That's a wrap on this episode, but don't go too far. Matt Conley, sticking with us on let's Talk Politics as we dive even deeper into Canada's manufacturing and exporting sector. In part two, we'll explore why the heart of Canadian manufacturing is built on family businesses, what the future of free trade might look like in today's uncertain political climate, and why attracting and retaining talent is more critical than ever. Plus, we get into why keeping boomers in the workforce with all their irreplaceable institutional knowledge could be key to Canada's economic future. There's a lot to unpack and you won't want to miss it. Just click on Part 2, and we'll catch you there.