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Ep 37: 10 Million Hungry - Inside Canada’s Food Insecurity Crisis

• Julia Pennella • Season 1 • Episode 37

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Hunger doesn't discriminate, but our systems often do. In 2024, Statistics Canada reported that 10 million Canadians — including 2.5 million children — lived in households that couldn’t reliably afford food. That’s families skipping meals, parents making impossible choices, and children going to school hungry in one of the world's wealthiest nations.

And while food insecurity touches every province, it cuts even deeper in the territories. In Nunavut, nearly half the population struggles with access to food. In the Northwest Territories and Yukon, it's more than 1 in 5. These numbers don’t just tell us who’s missing meals — they tell us who’s being left behind economically.

Because food insecurity isn't just about food. It’s a red flag for deeper financial distress — households choosing between rent, medication, heat, or a week of groceries. It’s a symptom of poverty — and a signal for policy failure.

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee, Director of Policy and Community Action for Community Food Centres Canada, joins us to challenge conventional wisdom about hunger and food insecurity in Canada. With passion and precision, she dismantles the myth that food insecurity is simply about food. "Food insecurity is not a food problem," she explains, "it's an income problem." This critical distinction shapes everything about how we should respond to this growing crisis.

The conversation takes us beyond emergency food relief to examine the structural forces creating hunger: stagnant wages, skyrocketing living costs, and inadequate social support systems that effectively "legislate poverty." We explore how traditional approaches like food banks, while necessary, cannot solve the underlying issues alone. Instead, Ramsey-Razai presents a compelling case for policy solutions like a new Groceries and Essentials Benefit, $150 per adult, $50 per child, that would provide direct financial support to 9 million struggling Canadians.

Perhaps most powerful is her framing of food security as fundamental to democracy itself. "Rising inequality, rising poverty, and rising food insecurity does and will undermine democracy," she warns. By connecting hunger to our broader social contract, she reveals how addressing food insecurity isn't just about feeding people – it's about the kind of society we want to build.

Whether you're concerned about poverty, inequality, or the future of our democratic institutions, this episode offers both sobering insights and practical pathways forward. Listen now to understand why hunger persists in Canada and what meaningful solutions might look like.

Check out Jasmine Ramze Rezaee and Community Food Centres Canada’s policy recommendations here:

https://act.beyondhunger.ca/page/66634/action/1 

What good are human rights if you’re always hungry? We need a new benefit for groceries and essentials: https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/what-good-are-human-rights-if-youre-always-hungry-we-need-a-new-benefit-for/article_0c7c92e8-b3fc-11ef-b2ca-0f7c0e42a2db.html 

Food insecurity sources: https://proof.utoronto.ca/food-insecurity/ 


Julia Pennella:

Welcome back to let's Talk Politics, the show where we connect the dots between policy and lived experience. Today's episode tackles a crisis that doesn't always make headlines but affects millions of Canadians every day. Food insecurity, it's not just about hunger. It's about the growing number of people across this country who are struggling to afford the basics and are being forced to make impossible choices. In 2024, statistics Canada reported that 10 million Canadians, including 2.5 million children, lived in households that couldn't reliably afford food. That's not just a statistic. That's families skipping meals, parents making impossible choices and children going to school hungry. And while food insecurity touches every province, it cuts even deeper in the territories. In Nunavut, nearly half the population struggles with access to food. In the Northwest Territories and Yukon, it's more than one in five. These numbers just don't tell us who's missing meals. They tell us who's being left behind economically, because food insecurity isn't just about food. It's a real red flag for deeper financial distress Households choosing between rent, medication, heat or a week of groceries. It's a symptom of poverty and a signal of policy failure.

Julia Pennella:

Joining me today to unpack this epidemic unraveling in Canada is Jasmine Ramsey-Razai, director of Policy and Community Action for Community Food Centres Canada. Jasmine doesn't just work in the sector. She challenges it to do better. Whether it's driving systems change, holding governments accountable or pushing for equity to be at the heart of policy, she leads with purpose and principle. Jasmine brings both lived experience and political insight to the table. With a background in political science and a career devoted to creating more inclusive spaces, especially for women, racialized communities and those too often overlooked, her approach blends bold advocacy with deep empathy and human connection. So today we'll ask and explore why are so many Canadians food insecure in one of the world's wealthiest nations? What can be done and what role should our leaders play in making hunger a political priority, not just a charitable cause? So let's talk politics. Jasmine, thanks so much for joining us.

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Julia Pennella:

I'm really looking forward to this conversation because, for me, food security and the crisis we're seeing unravel is really something I'm passionate about. So I'm really interested to get your take on it and what the advocacy looks like at Community Food Centers Canada. So you know, let's start off with that At the heart of it what is that core mission behind the advocacy work at CFCC and how has that evolved over the years?

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

Yeah, that's a great question. So CFCC was founded approximately 13 years ago. The co-founder and current CEO, nick Saul, was an executive director of a food bank and sort of developed this model and created the community food center model as a kind of outgrowth of and rejection of the food bank model. You know, food bank is mostly about emergency relief right, it's about getting groceries to people who need them right away, and it's an important measure. But it is a stopgap measure.

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

And a community food center, on the other hand, takes a more holistic approach. It's intended to be a more welcoming space where people can share a meal, learn how to cook, garden, access income supports and be part of a community. So the idea is to really center food with a lot of dignity, not just to hand out food, but to tackle the root causes of food insecurity with a lot of dignity. Not just to hand out food but to tackle the root causes of food insecurity with a lot of dignity and respect. And we recognize the food insecurity issue to really be a reflection of a structural problem and so treating food insecurity as a charity issue, we don't really see that solving the problem. So we're really interested in tackling the root cause, which is poverty and inequality. And that's why we engage in systems change advocacy, because we recognize that without that component we're just providing emergency food relief and that's not really solving the much larger issue, societal issues that are driving food bank access usage.

Julia Pennella:

Yeah, absolutely, and I appreciate that breakdown and I want to lean into that point a little bit further about, as you mentioned, you know food banks are often seen as that default or go-to solution, but we know they are band-aid solutions. It's not to your point fixing the systemic issues and we need a more systemic response to mitigate this problem because they're just short term solutions. So I'm curious from your opinion like what structural changes do we need to start prioritizing at a policy level to overcome this hurdle of just doing constant band-aid solutions? So you did mention poverty reduction. Are there any more specifics you can share around that on the policy level?

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

Yes, so we have a sort of comprehensive policy agenda at CFCC. You can access it online and during the recent federal election, we had an election campaign called no More Scraps and that also outlined our sort of policy platform. But the essence of it is a couple of things. One is we, alongside the food security sector and I want to say that, like food banks today, do engage in systemic advocacy as well, and so I don't want to detract from the important advocacy work they are engaging in. We do consider them allies and partners in the work, and there are lots of organizations that are engaging in systemic advocacy. So, reducing food insecurity by 50% by 2030, according to 2021 levels, that is something that the entire sector actually agrees upon, because it allows us to take a more coordinated approach and response to food insecurity and a more holistic approach at the government level, because it will require interdepartmental coordination and collaboration, and of a sort that doesn't quite exist at the government level, because it will require interdepartmental coordination and collaboration and of a sort that doesn't quite exist at the moment. So that is like one of the key things we're advocating for. But the second sort of bucket of our advocacy is all around income security and enhancing income supports. That includes employment insurance, modernizing and reforming the system, because a lot of the system currently is quite inadequate in many ways and also leaves a lot of workers out, and the nature of work has simply changed since the introduction of employment insurance and really the system hasn't been reformed extensively in the past 30 years. So we recognize that that is really an important thing that needs to happen. But we also feel like some of the existing benefits could be improved upon. One is to improve the current GSD, hsd credit and turning it into a groceries and essentials benefit, and so that would be a benefit that would be administered every month, you know. And so that would be a benefit that would be administered every month, you know $150 per adult, $50 per child, and it would flow to 9 million Canadians that are on lower incomes to help them meet basic grocery and other essential needs.

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

Because we recognize the severity of the crisis it's affecting 10 million Canadians today and at the root of it, food insecurity is not a food problem, it is an income problem, and so if we can ameliorate and improve people's incomes, we can start addressing this issue too.

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

But we also recognize that, like the unaffordability of housing, the precarity in the labor market, that these are some of the systemic things that are also driving this issue, and so we are in support of partners and other folks in the sector who are doing a lot of really important work around that, and because of our model, we have 17 community food centers across Canada and we have approximately a little more than 400 good food organizations across the country as well, and we have Indigenous community food centers, and so Indigenous food sovereignty for us is also very important, because what we're hearing from Indigenous folks across the country that are connected to our movement is that they are facing not only much higher rates of food insecurity because of systemic barriers related to colonialism and ongoing systemic and structural inequalities, but also because they are facing barriers engaging in like traditional food methods, right, whether it's hunting, gathering, foraging and so we want to recognize and support food sovereignty initiatives and demands by our Indigenous community food centers and by Indigenous people more broadly, even though we recognize there's a great deal of diversity among these communities as well and that urban Indigenous folks do face different kinds of challenges compared to, perhaps, those who live on the territory.

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

So, in any case, all of this is kind of a tapestry of us wanting to advocate for targeted solution and we recognize that we need better policy, like we can't treat food insecurity as a charity issue because short term relief doesn't get to the root of the problem.

Julia Pennella:

I'm curious from your perspective when we talk about food insecurity in Canada, what do people often misunderstand about what food insecurity looks like and is, and how does Community Food Centre Canada work to maybe shift that narrative?

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

Well, I think the average person, and even myself, prior to joining the sector and this organization I come from the feminist sector and like the housing sector really is that food insecurity is often just thought of like as like oh, there's an inadequacy of food, there isn't enough food, or like people are not able to access food and then it sort of kind of trails off. Folks are not really you know, it's like we don't always have the time and space to engage critically in every area of society. So I just think that, not to do anyone a disservice, oftentimes understood in the way that it needs to be understood, in the sense that it's like there are structural reasons why folks are food insecure and it is related to poverty but also inequality, right, because what we're actually seeing is that the rate of food insecurity is higher than the rate of poverty in society and they are related but distinct trends. So one could speculate, although, although I mean, I'm going to leave this to like the experts and like the researchers and the folks who are frenching the data is that the reason that the rate of food insecurity is higher, one of the reasons, or a correlation, potentially, I don't know is that because in the major cities, the cost of living is so high that an average income these days just doesn't stretch.

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

In the same way, and compounded with that, is like the fact that inflation, particularly in the food sector, has grown much more rapidly since COVID. And it's just this perfect storm, right. So it's like living wages have declined in real dollars over the past 40 years. Since COVID, inflation has increased much more rapidly. I was looking at the new inflation numbers and it suggested that the cost of many basic grocery items, like fresh fruits and vegetables, is increasing at a much higher, much more rapidly than, say, some other important items. It's not because we don't have enough food in Canada. It's not because we're not wealthy enough as a nation. It is around how wealth is distributed, how income is distributed and the types of supports that people can access when, for whatever reason, they can't engage in the labor market, right? So it's also about the inadequacy of our existing social assistance and income assistance programs.

Julia Pennella:

Yeah, and to your point, like it is a perfect storm. We have the inflation, we have price gouging at the grocery store. There's also the other aspect. I get to like if there's a drought somewhere and then strawberries or lettuce is a little bit more expensive that week, but like just even accessing nutritious foods, like it's insane. I remember going to the grocery store and I saw a bag of grapes for like $19.99 a pound. That's insane. And even if you're shopping sales, it's still, you know, pushing the wallet Like it's really to your point. Where is there a divide between food insecurity and poverty? Like I think the numbers are going to tell us, maybe in the next five years or so. Because of that affordability element and in our prep call you had mentioned Statistics, canada said about 10 million people are living in food insecurity right now. I'm curious when we look at Canada's food insecurity crisis in maybe a global context, especially compared to other G7 countries, do you know how we're doing? Is there any statistics or comparisons that stand out to you?

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

Well, we are a little bit more unequal than some of the other G7 nations, but not in comparison to the United States, and so like there's a lot there. I mean, I think, food insecurity to some extent okay. So all the countries around the world have been experiencing inflation, right Like this is a global phenomenon, and especially after COVID. So I think in some respects, canada is still performing very well even compared to, like, some of the G7 nations. Of the G7 nations, I don't know the specific statistic, like I don't have a specific numbers of what the rate of food insecurity is in other countries in the G7. But I do know that food insecurity is really high in the US comparably to Canada, even though I think in the US we're seeing greater inequality, greater poverty and a greater concentration of wealth than even Canada, and so they have their own kind of programs which are a bit distinct from Canada. But I think the lesson here that we could learn is that countries that have strong social programs and countries that have strong redistributive policies tend to do better on both the inequality issue, the poverty issue and the food insecurity issue. So we need to start comparing ourselves to the nations that are objectively doing better on those metrics instead of comparing ourselves to, like the United States, which tends to lag behind almost every measure.

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

And there are a lot of really wonderful things that the government and this country have taken towards that, for example as having a national childcare program it's a great win. Pharmacare is a great win. The Canada Child Benefit that is a great support. The GIS that is also wonderful. But what we're also recognizing is that with a lot of these programs, they need to keep up. The benefit rates need to keep up in order to meet the cost of living.

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

And one great win by the disability sector that we were involved with was the Canada Disability Benefit. It's wonderful that we have this now and it's going to be rolled out soon, but it's like we need more than an additional $200 per month for a person living with a disability. So it's also like there are steps being taken in the right direction. There is a lot that the government does, but there's a lot more that the government needs to do in order to level the playing field, and what we are sensing, particularly with this new government, is that there's hesitancy around that. One of the platforms of this current government was a tax cut, so a reduction in the public commerce at a time when we're noticing an increased intensity and need in the community for many services, not just food and emergency services in that way. So I always think that it's all a reflection of government priorities and political will.

Julia Pennella:

I take your point and just I think the big theme here is just how food insecurity is so multifaceted, because you have the affordability challenges. Like you know, it's gotten to a point where people are choosing between keeping a roof over their head and feeding themselves or eating those more nutritious foods. Like it's great we have these programs but they're not keeping up with the realities of day to day. And I want to ask you and point to an article you wrote, a really powerful opinion piece for the Toronto Star titled what good are human rights if you're always hungry? And you talk about this and we touch on those themes we need a new benefit for groceries and essentials. And you talk about this and we touch on those themes we need a new benefit for groceries and essentials. So I want to ask you and lean into the point about policymaking and legislation In the article you highlighted that some income supports quote doom people to legislative poverty end quote. Can you explain how that happens and maybe a little bit further about what reforms would actually provide a dignified income floor?

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

Yes, that is a good question. So our focus at CFCC is on the federal government and federal income advocacy. But that sentence is alluding to the fact that and even though we're silent on this as an organization is that a lot of social assistance is provincially. It's a provincial jurisdiction, right. And so what we're finding with, like, for example, in Ontario with Ontario Works or ODSP, is that the rates that are being offered, the benefit rates, are woefully inadequate to meet the existing cost of living. The number for ODSP is, I can't remember something like $733 a month. I mean, it really is that low, plus or minus, you know, give or take a hundred bucks. So it's just like okay, well, I can't afford rent with that, if someone was receiving that. So then you're like well, I have to go get social housing, but the social housing wait lists are so long I can't remember what the latest tally is like seven years long. There are hundreds of thousands of people waiting for social housing providers.

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

For women in the country is that there are people stuck in our shelter system and stuck in very precarious living positions and circumstances, particularly women, because oftentimes women's homelessness is invisible. It takes kind of a different form and shape than, say, other forms of homelessness that tend to be more visible in shape than, say, other forms of homelessness that tend to be more visible. But they're just languishing in our shelter system, waiting for housing, because there are many legitimate reasons why they cannot engage in paid work at that time, and or some of them do have full-time jobs and it's still not enough to make rent, just rent. So I think these are signs of a broken system. That doesn't mean that the solutions aren't out there and that we don't already have the seeds to the larger solutions. Right, we do have some things, but what we need is a lot more of those things, and those things cost money, and it's not like Canada doesn't have the money I mean, the government just found an additional $9 billion to couch cushions to meet the NATO commitment but it's like can we also find $9 billion for something else that tries to address some of the existing issues, which are really, having been in a frontline capacity of working in agencies for the past 20 years, the need is so much greater. Frontline services are overwhelmed, staff are so burnt out. Folks are more and more living in very precarious. There's so much mental health now because of it too and they're just people in our shelter system because there's really nowhere for them to go.

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

So that sentence was like legislated poverty. It's really as simple as that is that, because of the inadequacy of our social assistance systems, people are not actually able to work themselves out of poverty. They're kind of trapped in these vicious cycles and it's not impossible to get out. But for a lot of folks it's really difficult for them to get out because there are layers to the issue, right? Some lot of folks. It's really difficult for them to get out because there are layers to the issue, right? Some of these folks are escaping violent homes and it's very hard to keep a job when you're trying to escape a violent situation. So there's so many layers here.

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

It is our responsibility, I think, of citizens in a country, to try to look out for our neighbors and I do believe that the average person and political leader, elected official, they want to solve this issue too, right, but there are so many different stakeholders, claim holders, so many different priorities and urgent issues that require our attention.

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

But it's like let's not leave the folks who have been systemically marginalized historically and currently out of these conversations, because when they do, what we see is what we're seeing right now, which is the trend in food insecurity, in poverty. It's all increasing. Poverty and food insecurity, you know, in some respects declined during the pandemic because the government stepped up with CERB and stepped up with these programs, because it recognized like, oh, there is a role for us to play here and we saw a dip in the poverty numbers, but now we're seeing an increase again. So the numbers are catching up and we're seeing yeah, poverty has also increased, according to the new CIS numbers. It's not just food insecurity, it's poverty and mental health and a greater number of people really struggling to afford housing, and I appreciate you sharing that, because it's something I think that gets glazed over, especially when we talk about women in poverty.

Julia Pennella:

I want to lean into the point a little bit how there's often a disconnect between federal promises and local realities. So I'm curious, what do you think true collaboration between government whatever level that might be and community organizations need to look like so we can have more meaningful, actionable change?

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

Yeah, that is a really good question and I don't profess to have all the answers, you know I mean because I've worked with the municipal government, I've worked with provincial governments, I've worked, and I, you know, working with the federal government, and I oftentimes find that I mean Canada, we are a federal system, we have a federated model and because of that there are opportunities and tensions between the various orders of government. Municipalities can't go into debt, but a lot of issues, especially in today's society where most people are living in cities or metropolitan areas, are playing out at a local level. Well, municipalities can't solve these issues alone. They need provincial support and they need federal support, right, but I think, because of the way that the jurisdictions work too, then the provinces oftentimes here in Ontario, would say, well, when they come, for example, to immigration or whatever they're like, well, we need more federal dollars for this too. So it's just like we do need more collaboration between orders of government.

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

It sometimes gets more complicated when there are different kind of ideologies or political parties in power. There are different kind of ideologies or political parties in power and when governments have kind of different priorities because they are dealing with different pressures and it's like we're a nonpartisan organization, but as a person, it's like not one kind of party or ideology hasn't really been able to solve all these issues. We have an NDP government in the PC, we have a conservative government in Ontario, we have different kinds of governments everywhere, but we're seeing that like a lot of these issues are manifesting across the country and so, because of that, what we do need, I think, is like greater federal leadership on some of these issues, because ultimately, the federal government does have the biggest budget. We have one of the lowest debt ratios, apparently, in the OECD, so we can afford to go into debt to pay for social services that we know have a great return on investment, and not only that the federal government can introduce new measures to raise money, if they wanted to, much more easily than a municipality, but frankly, even maybe than the province. So I think every order of government has a certain responsibility and I think, ideally, I think the average Canadian would like to see more cooperation between different orders of government and, frankly, across political lines.

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

But you know, the question is around accountability, yeah, and how people understand their portfolios and understand their work and the willingness it comes back to like political priorities, political courage and willingness to listen to each other to try to make things work. Because, for example, with the Canada Disability Benefit, there was a real serious concern that it would be clawed back at the provincial level. I mean, if you think about it, it's nonsense, right? The federal government introduces a measure to support folks with disability and the province decides to tax it. So what we found out in Ontario is that that's not going to happen.

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

But I believe there's one problem where it is happening. But what I'm trying to say is like that's when we need the cooperation, right. Then if the federal government is introducing a measure that is in support of local community it's a community-driven ask and demand would help average folks that then the province doesn't step in and say, well, actually we're going to claw this back, we're going to tax it, we're going to treat it like income. That's not fair. So I think there are ways that I think orders of government need to cooperate better. There's a lot of politics in the way that the word politics is sometimes thrown around in a negative way, with a negative connotation, and yet when it works, it can work really beautifully too.

Julia Pennella:

Yeah, I take all your points and I agree with you because there is a lot of political finger pointing of this is your jurisdiction and well, no, technically it's yours.

Julia Pennella:

And I think a lot of the lines, especially with how grand municipalities and cities have grown, that that line is just so blurred on who does what? Because the big theme in a lot of my conversations on the podcast is what don't municipalities support now and they have the lowest tax structure to be able to collect that to fund affordable housing, community care, food banks, you know, community centers, libraries, all that stuff and it's just, it's adding on their responsibilities. But again, yeah, the federal government. And I agree with you and to your point too, I always say there's politics behind the politics that people really don't see and the ideologies come into play and I think truly in everyone's hearts they want to fix this issue. But that political will needs to be there. So I appreciate you breaking. Ask you, if you were speaking to Prime Minister Carney right now, as the federal government is planning for their fall budget, what's one bold policy you'd put on the table for them?

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

Introducing a groceries and essentials benefit. I think it's entirely doable. The infrastructure is already set up. It could make a real difference in the lives of 9 million Canadians. It's $150 per adult, $50 per child. It's doable. The price tag isn't unreasonably high. The government could find the money if they wanted to prioritize this issue and I think it would buy them a lot of political currency and clout that could last into the foreseeable future currency and clout that could last into the foreseeable future. So I don't think it would solve all the issues, but I think it could really help ameliorate some of the severity of the issue the food insecurity crisis that we're seeing right now.

Julia Pennella:

Well said and I will be sure to include in the show notes of CFCC's policy recommendations as well as that really great article you wrote for the Toronto Star, so people can check that out. But, jasmine, we covered a lot of really big, important topics. I want to throw it to you. Are there any other closing thoughts you want to share with the listeners?

Jasmine Ramze Rezaee:

I think rising inequality, rising poverty and rising food insecurity does and will undermine democracy. We're already seeing greater polarization in our society and this is, in some respects, an inevitable outgrowth of the way that wealth and power is distributed in our society. So if we want to tackle these issues and if we want to protect democracy, we do have to think of some of these projects as democracy-protecting projects, so that when we're talking about reducing food insecurity, we're dealing with the root causes of poverty, some of the structural inequities. We're talking about pro-democracy moves. They're oftentimes not thought of in that way moves. They're oftentimes not thought of in that way, but that's really what we're talking about. So most Canadians care about democracy. Most Canadians care about democratic values. Most Canadians do want to see some movement on these social issues. So why not invest in social programs? Why not consider more redistributive policies so that we can have the society that we all aspire to have, this great nation?

Julia Pennella:

Great way to end it. Really important things to think about and be part of the conversation. So, jasmine, I want to thank you so much for your time and your insights and, like I said, would love to have you back when the budget comes out. We can dissect that and see if there's any money towards either more social programs or food programs. So, jasmine, director of Policy at Canadian Food Centres, canada, cfcc, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast and be sure to tune in next week for my next special guest and we'll catch you there.